Cloud is now the second best character in Smash 4.
>>332576898
Nah D1. You lie.
>>332576898
1 and 2 are Rosa and Bayo
>>332577004
Nope.
http://www.eventhubs.com/tiers/ssb4/
>>332576898
Who cares, BAYONETTA DA BES.
>>332577082
>eventhubs
>>332577082
>Anyone can go vote
ayy lmao
>>332576898
And now he's the 10th.
>>332577082
>eventhubs
put a little more effort next time
>>332576898
why exactly?
>Hackurai
>knowing how to balance games
pick one
>>332577082
> Legitimately love Bayo
> Even voted for her
> Extremely happy when she came out she became my main
> No. 1
For fucks sake now you retards are going to call everyone that uses her a tier whore.
>>332577208
>>332577219
>>332577351
Well, where could I find a credible tier list then?
>>332576898
Neato.
>>332577726
No, I'm going to call everyone who uses her a cheap cunt
>>332577726
Which is accurate, because anyone who uses her is a tier whore. Bayonettafags are inherently MUH POWERLEVEL fags. See: all the buttblasting over the Dante deathbattle.
>>332577785
Those retards think their opinion is higher than multiple people voting based on smash events.
The list is moderated so is not like /v/ can vote to put Dedede at No. 1
>>332577785
Nowhere, there isn't one yet.
Though m2k made a video a few days ago where he ranked, from 1 to 5: Bayo, Rosa, ZSS, Diddy and Sheik. He considers Cloud to be part of the rest of top 10 along with Mario, Ryu, Fox and Ness, but didn't rank them.
>>332578221
>anyone who uses her is a tier whore
Except I used her before she was considered top tier.
Kindly fuck off and get good.
>>332577990
Cute!
>>332578350
>Multiple people dedicated to the smash scene is not credible
>But this one pro is ok to believe!
lol
>>332578221
I thought the buttblasting over that was because it went against the word of the creator of both characters, who said Bayo would win.
>>332578398
Wow, you used her before she released? Please tell me more of your behind the scenes adventures.
>tier whore telling anyone to get good
Soon as you stop using crutches m8 ;)
>>332578536
>eventhubs
>credible in any way
It's
Rosalina
ZSS
Pikachu
Sonic
Ryu
For the new top five. Cloud received nerfs he's not jumping farther then 8th.
Shiek will probably take his old place at 12th now tho
>>332578536
>>Multiple people dedicated to the smash scene is not credible
It would be if it was smashboards.
Even the smash reddit is more credible than eventhubs
>>332578808
More credible than /v/ any day of the week.
>>332578834
Fuck off ESAM
>>332578398
But people were already hyping her up as top tier right after she was announced.
That death combo and all.
>>332578798
What the fuck is crutches?
I am not a tourney fag you dumb fuck. Please stick to non-autismo terms while talking so I can understand you.
>>332578834
Didn't ZSS receive some major nerfs as well?
>>332578941
0 to death fuck yeah.
>>332577785
>>332578350
There is a tier list for Smash 4 on Smashboards, it just came out right before the unannounced 1.1.5 patch. They are in the process of updating it. The top is going to change a little but the bulk of the cast probably won't move too much aside from a few obvious characters like Samus or Sheik.
>>332578916
What?
>>332579120
Not major more like a slap on the wrist
With Shiek going away nothing is stopping her so her placing is unchanged
>>332579024
>Please stick to non-autismo terms while talking so I can understand you.
How will you understand me if I don't speak your language, tier whore?
>>332576898
SSS tier
Bayo
S Tier
Cloud
Top Ten
Ryu
Litrally pay2win.
Nice game Sm4shfags.
Why do people say Shiek dropped? She's still winning tournaments left and right. If a thing Cloud is most likely No.5 behind Sheik, Bayo, Rosa, and Zamus
>>332579392
Ah I get it you're a salty loser who can't win on 1v1 because he keeps using meme characters like Falcon or Ness
lmao
>>332579490
She got nerfed so now all she's got it neutral game.
ZeRo himself says she's probably not even top ten anymore.
>>332579490
What tournaments are you talking about? No your locals don't count there hasn't been anything remotely close to a major since 1.1.5
Shiek got nerfed hard
>>332579490
>Patch got released 2 weeks ago
>Guys Shiek is winning tournaments!
Just how many toruneys can there be in the span of 2 14 days?
>>332579490
There hasn't been a major tournament since the patch you moron.
>>332579120
Not really, The Uair to UpB combo is gone, but she's still very solid; Nair > DownB is still a thing (just slightly stricter), and the increased knock back on Dthrow gave it a confirm into UpB regardless of DI at certain percents
>>332579707
VoiD beat Pink Fresh's Bayonetta with Sheik at S@X 141
>>332576898
Sakurai really did right by Cloud in that game. He even managed to make me like the movie costume.
Shit, I actually think I prefer it, now...
>>332579945
>S@X
That's not a big tournament you tard. See how well Shiek does at Evo
Question to all dumb cunts that hate tier characters.
If you had to go to war and you had to pick between a gun and a heavy machine gun and nothing else.
What would you choose?
You only get one mag/clip as well.
>>332580616
Katana.
1000 layers of folded steel.
>>332577990
That's pretty cute
>>332576898
Why? What did they change?
>>332580995
his matchups.
>>332580756
> Choose betweem A an B
> I choose 4 because I am a faggot
>>332577082
>website name
criticism
>>332580616
War and Video Games are two complete different things
>>332576898
M2K doesn't put Cloud in top 5
>>332581247
Nothing personal, kid.
>>332581165
Mechanically
>>332580616
Can you be more specific than just "gun"
>>332578734
But even that was bullshit. Dante in DMC3+ obviously had the advantage. If they used DMC Dante, sure, but anything else would've been in his favor.
And even then, Kamiya only said she would win because men can't beat women. He was making a joke.
>Q: Recently, Smash has risen in popularity as an eSport. What do you think of the fact that Melee is as popular as Smash 4?
>A: First off, it makes me very happy. They’re both games I made, after all. And I’m also surprised. Because it means that the players really understood the concept behind that game correctly. The one where skills gaps become very apparent, the one that’s highly competitive is Melee. But I want to avoid a design where stronger players utterly dominate weaker ones. We should make it so that new players can have fun as well.
Why would Sakurai say such a thing, fellow smash 4 bros? Are we really just a bunch of casuals? Did we really ruin the Smash series? I don't think I'm gonna make it through the night..
Is he viable?
>>332582489
Yes if played very consistently. You can't make many mistakes or the S and high A tiers will eat you up. Rosalina (obviously) is your biggest obstacle by far because of GP faggotry and then ZSS, Cloud and Sonic out of the top tiers are your other threats.
Shakey and FOW both place well with him, FOW makes Top eights at majors but he's really hard to use at a high level
>>332582489
His only kill option is backthrow and so once opponent is in backthrow kill range they're just gonna stay away.
>>332583102
And up air and back air and neural air and PKT2 mix ups and Dtilt-Fsmash combos
>>332582489
Le PK Fire Back Throw Kid
>>332576898
I give cloud the D x 3.
>>332582489
His backthrow kills at retard early percents and he can pressure or rack up damage like a motherfucker. The only reason why he doesn't see more high tourney play is because Rosa fucks his recovery.
>>332582489
Not in a world where Rosalina exists.
>>332577082
>Jigglypuff is the worst
Only accurate thing on the list
>>332577990
still don't belong in this game
>>332578398
regardless of why you play her she was top tier day 1
So who's the best Corrin around?
>>332585714
imo Void is better at Sheik than ZeRo, ZeRo is just a better player
>>332582124
>Also, I feel on a personal level that [Smash 4] is more interesting than the three previous games in the series.
>>332577990
That cheered me up.
>>332585714
>look up iceninja
I think I'm better than him but I don't play competitive.
I also only use the gamepad and play FG.
>>332585714
>Samus
>Not Depth
>>332582124
>they knew about wavedashing
>changed up l-canceling from 64
>intentionally killed Brawl's skill ceiling with tripping and such
Because for some reason Sakurai thinks that lowering the skill ceiling means that casuals who don't give a flying fuck about competitive smash will have more fun
>>332580232
The Ribbon alts are pretty fucking good. Actually, Cloud looks good in dark green.
That tarp skirt is still a problem, though, and I like his original hair better.
>>332576898
I'm still confused why Cloud is in Smash Brothers.
>>332586475
Unofficial Ballot character.
m2k said he probably isn't even top 5 and he is the best cloud in the world
>>332586475
Money, mostly.
>>332582489
>that fucking Fair
Yeah.
>>332586475
cause eventually the whole dissidia roster will make it in.
>>332586779
>Ramza and Terra in smash
I can deal with this
>>332586550
Ah yes but I'd never consider Cloud to be related enough to Nintendo to ever think that he would be in the Nintendo franchise game.
>>332586308
Does he have better results?
>>332586984
Sakurai thought Bartz, Cecil or Terra would have made more sense, but cloud ended up being the most iconic.
>>332585714
SlayerZ for Peach, even Umeki said he was better
Best Bowser is Pollo from Mejico
The Wall is best Yoshi
Best Bjr is Vicegrip
Best Doc is 2ManyCooks
Best Pac is probably Ginko from Japan
Best Olimar is Shuton
Otherwise gud
>care enough to hate losing and get frustrated
>don't care enough to practice with high-level dedication
>only have fun with low tiers, but lose often
>higher tiers aren't fun to play as, and what's the point of playing if you're not having fun
how do i escape this middleground hellis ROB viable?
>>332587215
It just seems like Squaresoft at the time FF7 was made was one of the first 3rd party developer to give the middle finger to Nintendo.
>>332587435
Palutena/Robin main here.
You don't escape middle ground.
>>332586560
m2k thought that PM Mewtwo was just mid tier.
>>332587435
Oh yeah forgot to add the worst part:
>you are probably the best smash player in any given room of people in your average life
>but when playing with competitive players you get curbstomped
>throughly disgusted with almost the entire roster when I play FG and how they play
>still default to FG when I'm bored.
Why can't I leave? I hate this fucking game.
>>332588225
>intentionally have to gimp self and recovery when having a get together because it's no fun when the same person wins every single game
Why can't I counter edgeguarding? And why do I have that one faggot friend who can only win by edgeguarding?
>>332588652
>edgeguarding
>Sm4sh
buddy i'm not even a memeleefag but if you're getting stomped by Sm4sh's """""edgeguarding""""" you either picked up the game two days ago or are clinically simple
>>332588652
>16 mains
It's because you are a fucking retarded mouthbreathing casual pretending he doesn't care about winning or losing but you clearly do.
Just stick to posting ebin anti-melee memes and hold the tears back every time you lose, faggot.
>>332588652
Similar to you, I seriously can't into getting up the ledge. Everyone somehow knows what I'm going to do and my mains' shitty Fair don't help.
Threadly reminder that Bayonetta is pay2win scrub garbage that carries bad players confirmed by the best player i the game.
MODS STICKY THIS ITS NINTENDO.
>>332589017
lern2adapt
>>332588652
>16 mains
>>332588887
edgeguarding in smash 4 isn't holding the ledge, it's manipulating the ledge grab priority to get a hit in.
>>332579679
ZeRo's lying through his ass. Of course he's going to me modest about his main.
>>332589238
He's dropping Sheik for Diddy again and possibly other top characters other than Bayo.
>>332588980
>>332589167
Outdated pic, actually. Add Mewtwo and Roy to pic related and you have my current mains. I mostly just circled characters I play. Also, I've never played melee and have zero interest in it. I've had the game since launch, but I only play it with one person because I don't actually enjoy it that much.
>getting this mad over someone who plays more than one character all the time.
>>332589696
>I played this character once I main him!
You don't know what "main" means.
Stay retarded.
>>332589665
When's the next big tournament with him? Gotta see how that goes.
>>332589696
I'm not any of the people who quoted you earlier, but I just want to remind you that you're not likely to get better by switching characters a lot. Most people stick to one character and just have a pocket sub character that they use.
It's fine if you think it's boring to use the same character over and over, but just keep in mind that that makes you the exception to the rule, in terms of "competitive" play.
>>332589696
>getting this mad over someone who plays more than one character all the time.
Having 3-5 mains is fine. Having over 25 percent of the roster as a "main" is not.
>>332589919
>>I played this character once
>>332577082
>Link in 14th place
I know it's eventhubs, so it's basically nothing, but how I wish this was true
>>332578221
I just liked the bayonetta games so I picked up bayonetta
That's how I picked all my smash mains. If I liked them in their game I pick them up in smash
>>332579438
>>Litrally pay2win.
>implying you're at the level where tiers matter
>>332590670
Most people that care are. Sm4sh has a ridiculously low skill ceiling.
>>332590834
Then why aren't you at evo if it's so easy
>>332585714
PrinceRamen is 20 times better than IceNinja
>>332590978
I don't live anywhere close to America.
>>332590978
>skill ceiling = ease
Tip of my kek.
>>332590834
It has a low entry level, but the tourneyfags who place at EVO would wipe the floor with you.
Complaining about top tier characters being DLC is completely useless. Either you're not a pro in which case tiers are irrelevant, or you are a pro in which case another few bucks is pennies compared to all the fight sticks and plane tickets you're buying.
>>332590978
>implying I'm not dabuz
game is a joke compared to psasbr
>>332577082
>not smashboards
You tried?
Best mains/subs coming through
>>332591663
Top fucking taste, bro
>used to main Ganondorf
>had to go through hell to win a single match in a tournament
>switch to Cloud
>get to Grand Finals
Tiers do matter, boys. It's amazing to have good frame data and hitboxes.
Daily reminder.
>>332593453
Funny how that came from a brawl vid. A game where tiers where so radical, it was almost impossible to beat any of the top tiers. Fucking MK and ICs were disgusting.
>>332593073
Or maybe its because cloud is so incredibly easy to use.
>>332593914
>excellent mobility
>amazing frame data
>a fucking huge disjoint
>limit charge that forces opponent to attack first
>limit side B is an aerial Smash attack that is safe on shield and unpunishable and kills at like 80%
He's just too good. I was already a patience-oriented player thanks to using Ganondorf, so it didnt take much. Having the opponent actually approach me instead is glorious.
Reminder that if all the DLC characters were bad then you would ask why people would waste their money buying them.
>>332594783
>>332594783
Roy is still garbage.
>>332594465
Yea and everything except his smashes is safe on shield, and since players in general suck at edgeguarding, his subpar recovery doesn't even matter.
>>332594783
Lucas is fine.
Mewtwo post patches is fine
Roy after mahboy shitposters died down is fine
Ryu is fine even with those fucking true shoryuken setups.
>>332593761
Probably because at the time people were spending more time complaining about tier lists than actually playing the game, not that I blame anyone for not wanting to play Brawl.
>>332577990
I don't think Mario is supposed to be that short compared to him. He could just BARELY jerk him off lol.
>>332594952
I was talking about Bayo, Ryu, and Cloud.Is Corrin still considered broken? Haven't kept up with Smash in a while.
>>332595362
Guess what, the only one there that isn't low tier is Ryu. And Ryu is even higher tier than Cloud, who keeps being called Pay2Win.
>>332595791
Corrin's only bullshit was his counter but that got nerf.
Overall it's a super meh character.
>>332596030
The super safe range is annoying and the modern Fire Emblem s/he represents is fucking infuriating, but at ther the counter nerf I can live with the character.
>>332595791
Corrin isn't broken, but honestly he's kind of annoying to fight with his range and aerials.
Is Apex the first big post patch major?
>>332596868
Does Apex take place before CEO?
Apex probably wont matter since a lot of people are not going after the TO of Apex turned out to be a rapist.
CEO is where it's at my nigga. Went last year and had a blast, hopefully Zero loses this year.
>>332596868
Pound this weekend has 514 entrants (capped) no zero tho
>>332576898
>cloud will one day be nerfed again
feels good
>>332585714
>Bill Trinen
is that because noone plays Zelda or is he actually good
>>332598294
The former most likely also because Trinen's a cool dude
the worst fucking thing about these DLC characters is how they just make the rest of the fucking roster redundant
ike and shulk are swordsmen with huge power and range but are held back by either slow speed or bad frame data. Cloud does everything they do, but better, and with a fuckin projectile. Corrin similarly outclasses Marth, and hell, Ryu basically just Good Ganondorf because Ryu hits hard, runs fast, has a "Warlock Punch" that's cancellable and a "Wizard's Foot" with horizontal recovery
and those are just the obvious comparisons. in general, what the fuck is the point of making characters with balanced spreads of strength/speed/range when DLC characters are just going to excel in every single aspect with negligible flaws
>never have to worry about patches
Feels pretty good.
>>332598630
Ike and Shulk(Smash) have better KO power than Cloud. Shulk has his Monado gimmick that gives him the highest stat of its respective art
Ganondorf hits harder with basic moves
>>332599138
>Ike and Shulk(Smash) have better KO power than Cloud. Shulk has his Monado gimmick that gives him the highest stat of its respective art
Shulk's gimmick doesn't mean that Cloud doesn't shit all over him when it comes to fundamentals. Ike has more KO power, but not nearly NEARLY enough to hold a candle to Cloud's brute, safe-on-shield strength coming out lightning fast.
And Ganondorf hits hard with basic moves, yeah, but Ryu gets to hit hard AND have combo potential. Ganon literally has to work his ass for for stray hits and just hope they add up.
>>332599138
>Ike and Shulk(Smash) have better KO power than Cloud.
Fuck no. Absolutely not.
I dual main Ike/Cloud. Cloud's Limit Side B is the single best finishing move in the entire game. Ike's new fair is amazing, and his Fsmash actually hits harder than Limit Side B, but you're never going to land that shit.
Limit Cross Slash is safe on shield, has invulnerability frames, comes out fast, can break shields super easy (all it takes is for them to shield the followup instant dash attack), and can be done in the air.
Cloud has the best raw KO power in the entire game thanks to Limit Cross Slash.
>>332576898
i wreck with him. i love when someone knocks me off the stage, and those stupid fucking pussies try to come after me to kick me out even further, and i wait till the jump close enough and cross slash limit break their fucking asses in the air
you know who you are
>>332599629
Yeah but, and I know he generally has it, you're putting him in a situation where he has Limit Break charged. If he misses Cross Slash its back to charging, Ike's Bair is always available
>>332599584
I was just saying it because you made it sound like Cloud did everything Shulk did but better
>>332578398
She was always top tier dumbass.
>>332600004
Yeah but the thing is that Cloud has 2 states, with limit and without limit.
Without limit he literally forces you to be the one approaching, and he can cancel his limit into literally anything. He gets the advantage of just running away and forcing you to act first, which is fucking enormous.
With limit he becomes a ticking time bomb waiting to blow that limit load on your fucking face. He missed? He gets to run away again and force you to approach.
Good luck if you don't have a long range game.
>>332582489
Yes, as FOW and Shaky have proved.
He has exceptional combo potential, very good edge guarding options, and one of the best and reliable overall kill games in Smash 4 between Bthrow (the best kill option in the game), Uair, Bair, and Dsmash. However, he can have trouble in neutral against characters with good disjoints (ie sword chars) and approaching in general, and his recovery is incredibly exploitable. He's a character with very obvious weaknesses and strengths, and despite what people who don't understand how to powershield PK Fire would tell you, is a very balanced character.
Sakurai must think so too, because since WiiU the only changes he's gotten are slight Dair buffs (it's still terrible unless you're using it to autocancel land) and PSI Magnet speed buffs when Lucas was released and Magnet recover % nerf (doubles teammate only) when they nerfed all the team stuff like Villager's Pocket and Game & Watch's Bucket.
The nice thing tho is he has one of the best Bayo MUs in the game, and one of the best Ryu MUs, too.
>>332598883
>tfw nothing but buffs lately
>>332598883
You can never be sure.
>>332585714
ryo is best corrin
>>332579707
mr r just won a event with lots of top players very cleanly. Sheik is easily still top 5
>>332582007
Dante is stronger in DMC1 than he is in DMC3
>>332593073
If it was an actual fighter this wouldn't' be a problem.
>>332583350
Remove neutral air, and PKT2 mix-ups aren't significant.
>>332585714
>bowser
>not zigsta
>?????
>Tfw your main is the secret Cloud counter
feels good
>>332605654
Who?
>>332605789
I saw Mew^2 6-stock M2K's Cloud in 1.1.4, so methinks Mewtwo.
>>332605789
Charizard
>>332605964
M2K is just personally shit at that matchup
Mario and Luigi have ultra safe aerials that can be spammed even when extremely predictable. They have braindead spacing options, Over simplified combos and press n-air as a get out of jail free card as well as a fucking fast roll. If you main these characters and only them you lack an understanding of how to play Smash and use them as a crutch.
>>332606658
>Complaining about luigi after he got gutted
>>332585489
somebody's still mad
>>332606658
>Mario and Luigi
Try half the fucking cast buddy.
>>332606658
Stop playing a shit tier character
>>332606658
I bet you're a Ganon main, aren't you?
>>332599584
Ganondorf doesn't need to combo, if he hits you your percentage is taking a leap up and making it much easier for him to knock your ass the fuck out.
>>332606830
Heres how I would nerf and semi buff Luigi.
> Keep most of his pre patch combos just get rid of D-throw as a start up for them.
> Aerials have end lag if he misses but follow up if he does hit.
> Pressing N-air inbetween hitstun no longer works.
> His moves aren't as safe on shield
> Down B braindead hitbox can't be used off stage without it being suicide.
>>332606861
Or fucking anyone from FFVI, you cock.Cloud turned out great, but I fucking wish we got Sabin instead.
>>332588980
>>332589167
Characters in smash are so simple to play I don't know why you guys are complaining about it.
>>332599138
If you manage to get hit by Ike ever, you have brain problems. He's stupid slow, and not nearly strong enough to justify it.
>>332608112
>Sm4sh Ike
>Slow
He's not brawl Ike where every attack sans jab was just Fsmash remapped to a different button.
>>332586907
Ramza was my ballot vote
>>332586779
>exdeath in smash
>>332608321
He's still slow as fuck and super predictable. I've never lost to an Ike.
I mostly play the heavy's but now I'm starting to expand who I play with more. I already read the thread about Ness and his killer backair, but how do I git gud withMewtwo and Doctor Mario?
>>332608931
>Mewtwo
Float around and nair. Try not to teleport under the stage. Side B projectiles and laugh
>>332608431
>Snake, Captain Falcon, Little Mac have amazing asses
>Ramza gets in Smash 4 and has this for his default design
>dat incredible ass
>tfw refuse to grab, dodgeroll and use shield like a faggot
>tfw instead of edgeguarding like a faggot i let my opponent recover
>tfw i still pull victories on try hard faggots
>>332585714
>Jr.
>not tweek
nigga
>>332609130
he get it from his mama, dycedarg and zalbaag don't have shit on Ramza's ass
>>332609593
tweek dropped Jr., sadly. pretty sure he's moving to cloud
>>332609814
>tweek dropped Jr.
I dont blame him, but fuck.
>>332578834
>Cloud received nerfs he's not jumping farther then 8th
Clouds nerfs were insignificant
>>332598294
It's because nobody plays Zelda
>>332586225
>I think I'm better than him
I highly doubt that. But I'm a dickrider, so what do I know.
Sheik is still easily top tier.
People are just freaking out because she's not like super duper god tier anymore.
>>332585714
>best Mario not Ally
>>332589167
>>332588980
>>332589919
>>332590214
>>332590272
>there are rules to how many characters you're allowed to main
>>332578834
>Pikachu
Literally Fuck off.
Zero kill confirms. You can't be a top 10 without kill confirms unless your name is Rosalina.
>>332612085
>rules
No rules, but if you "main" 16 characters then you don't really main anything because you're not going to play them even at a mediocre level. Skill comes from specialization.
>>332578536
Well m2k is known for playing all the smash games a ton and having ridiculous game knowledge, you mouthbreather
>>332583102
At and past b throw range Nair becomes a legitimate kill option, particularly off stage.
>>332578834
This is trash. Here's your real top 5:
Bayonetta
Rosalina
ZSS
Cloud
Shiek
And then you have Sonic, Mario, Ryu, etc.
>trying to get better with Yoshi lately
>can't get any kills or good combos
Any advice on how to git gud with him?
>>332612746
practice
>>332612746
Grab release is a great tool. You can jab out of grab release if their jab is slower than yours.
If they read that and try to shield, down B for that ez shield break.
Even if their jab is faster than yours, try mixing it up with shield grabs and the like. This only doesn't work against characters with frame 1 jabs like Mac.
Yoshi's grab release is stupid good, plus he has one of the better pummels in the game.
I haven't touched this game in a while, but in the beginning people were saying Bayo was trash. Who are the the actual top 5 now, and if Bayo moved up...what happened?
>>332613049
They learned how to exploit the Character's bullshit abilities.
>>332613049
People learned her 0 to deaths real fast.
Also witch time is broken, even post nerfs
>>332576898
Uhh how?
>>332600723
I understand ryu, but how is bayonetta nice?
>>332603706
Nair is ledge guard tool man
>>332613552
He kills from grabs so landing with witch time is void, and he can cheese her landing with Pk thunder.
>>332608841
Ike players placed well at major events, better overall than Ness for example
>>332577082
>eventscrubs
>>332589017
Zer0 is just mad he doesn't know how to play her.
Zero first Bayo vid:
>She's not that good. She's very mechanically challenging and too hard for me. She doesn't feel like a Smash character."
Now
"Lol she's easy go play but I won't play her. It's much harder to fair fair fair fair bouncefish. Her playstyle is toxic, even though I mained MK in Brawl and Diddy pre-patch"
>Tier fag friend picking Cloud.
> I pick Roy
>You know Roy is low tier now right???
> Read his ass like a book and Blazer stage spike followed by side smash whoopings.
> H-he's still not tournament viable!!
>>332614615
If Zero wanted he could pick her up in a day.
He mained Fox in melee and got top 50 worlwide while he played.
Bayo is nothing compared to melee Fox.
I do agree with him that Bayonetta is boring as fuck to both use and fight against. There's no enjoyment to be found in anything regarding her.
>>332614615
Just wait until he jumps to the bandwagon.
>>332598883
>tfw buffs for Jiggly never
>>332614615
Is he complaining about her just because her 0-Death stuff is easy to do or something?
>>332613895
Bayonetta is pretty good off stage though which always fuck Ness up. I'll admit bthrow is nice but at high % bayonetta can get Ness to have to approach
>>332615572
Literally everybody can shit on Ness off-stage so that's not that big of a deal.
>>332615418
We'll sucks to be you, how would u buff her though? Her dash attack works like palutena's, she can bust shields with jab + pound, sing and rollout are worthless yes but at least rest has the kill bowser at 60% thing and pound is pound. Bair kills and is safe on space, fair can carry folks off stage, nair can kill at high %
>>332577082
I mean, you're wrong.
>>332579358
>>332578834
>pikachu
>top 5
>be a big fan of ashita no joe and hajime no ippo anime
>boxing character gets put in smash
>could not possibly be any more happier
>get shit on by everyone for maining a "cheap" character
mac could get his speed, power, super armor and recovery nerfed and i'd still play him
i feel like mac is hated even more than super autism characters like sonic and falco
>>332582489
Yes because he is completly braindead.
>Pk fire>dthrow>3x fair
After youve done enough damage backthrow
>>332616118
>how would u buff her though?
Make pound do a little more shield damage, make sing effect a wider area, make rollout less suicidal (ie: she doesn't just spin in place to her death if you hit a wall or shield), and make rest always result in a Star/Screen KO or reduce the sleeping time on a KO/hit (I agree that it should be punishable if whiffed, but even if you land it people can just respawn and land a smash attack)
>>332616465
Mac is not cheap. He's hard as fuck to play, mid-tier, and only forgloryhole shitters complain about him.
>>332614890
But Roy is low tier
so how long until an autist masters the bidou layout and destroys everyone? 4 months
>>332617293
Never, it will become like PP aka like 2 players use it but it won't help that much
>>332616887
This. Mac is the casual filter of smash, the first hurdle that needs jumping. He's really not that great.
>tfw been playing smash since the n64 days
>never played at tournaments because i'm not autistic and only ever played with real life friends
>consider myself pretty good at the game
>play online for the first time with smash 4
people literally don't attack you
they sit there and wait for you to attack them, shield/dodge, grab, throw, ariel attack repeat
have me and my friends been playing wrong all this time or are these people just autistic?
>>332617449
It's how smash 4 is at optimal level sadly
>hear everyone talk about how difficult it is to play Ryu and that he is a "respectable main"
>decide to play him because he's my SF boi
>literally just spam n-air until 60% then d-tilt > DP
>now everyone hates him
>>332616794
Pound sets up for a shield bust after jabs have done their damage, I think it does enough damage. Sing sets up for a free rest so I don't think making it bigger should work, I do think making it work on shield would be a better move though, it would make it a lot better off stage by a ledge for example by doing that. Rest is a gamble, I think it is stupid that jiggs can get revenge for it sometimes on hit but I consider that part of the gamble so sadly I don't really want to change the move. Rollout is just trash and can stay trash, not like jiggs is the only character with a garbage special, dedede jet hammer, ness' Pk flash on using it to actually hit someone vs mind games, lucas Pk freeze being worse than flash somehow, Zelda's phantom overall. At least rollout can ko at high %
>>332617415
pp is hard to do normally, but with bidou is east as fuck t b h, I have been able to pull it off more frecuently at least
>>332617449
>never played at tournaments because i'm not autistic and only ever played with real life friend
>le all tourneyfags are autistic meme
You go to tournaments with friends.
Big tournaments nowadays are just fests with booze, drugs, and Smash. And whores if you're good looking enough, so many gamer girls wanting to jump on top player dick.
>>332617449
Smash 4 is an approach first and lose simulator, that's how you play optimally.
>>332617449
You just suck and think going in is the best option everytime, of course they are going to play defensively when you go full offense like a retard
>has to clarify muh tournament players are autistic before he says he got his ass handed to him
Fucking git gud, faggot. That or stay in your scrub subconsious hugbox
>>332576898
>M2k, Zero, Nairo, Dabuz, Esam, and several top japanese players all disagree
You better have a good case for this one bub
>>332577082
>eventhubs
please do not do this
>>332617901
i'm sorry for taking a PARTY GAME seriously
when i'm trying to enjoy a couple drinks and a few rounds of smash with my mates i don't define a fun time as sitting at opposite ends of final destination spamming projectiles at each other
>>332618147
Alright anon, that's fine, just don't sperg out when someone calls you shit when you are fine with being shit.
>>332618147
>i'm sorry for taking a PARTY GAME seriously
>when i'm trying to enjoy a couple drinks and a few rounds of smash with my mates
Funny. People do exactly that at tournaments. It just happens they know how to play and put money on the line too.
>he's never been to a supermajor
EVO at Las Vegas was fucking sweet, but calling everybody that plays a game different an autist. Whatever helps you sleep at night.
>>332618147
>le competitive players only play FD meme
>>332618252
>>332618262
>>332618346
the autism defense force is out in full i see
learn to play more aggressively and stop being such a fucking snooze fest
>>332618490
>learn to play more aggressively
I do that in melee. Aggressive play doesn't work in Smash 4 unless you use Diddy Kong.
>>332618490
You should learn how to win instead of finding excuses
>>332618550
>implying the top level players aren't agro
There is a difference between stupid aggressive play and aggressive play that is smart.
>>332618931
They look agro but that's after the enter advantage. Neutral is very defensive unless you have the luxury of a banana.
>>332618563
the best part is when i do win against try hards
>tfw you land a forward smash with ike against a shield spamming faggot
>tfw you break their shield and hit them with a full charged eruption
i seriously can not remember the last time i saw someone in online use a smash attack. everything is literally grab into aerial
>>332619062
Why would you use a random smash attack? There's literally no reason. It's like using a random heavy attack in Street fighter. You're asking to get punished.
>For glory
I mean if you throw enough random attacks one might eventually hit I guess.
>>332619062
Probably cause majority of the smash attacks in this game are ass.
also
>calling optimal play try hard cause they don't just do dumb shit
>>332618985
Isn't that sort of how melee works as well?
