Is DotA balanced, /v/?
>>332496183
Strictly speaking of mobas, it doesn't add a new hero every two weeks so if one game would be balanced, it'd have to be doto.
>>332496183
Yes. Did you get your ass outworldly destroyed?
Fairly balanced.
>>332496183
In AP pugs? No. In captains mode? Yes, as balanced as you can get without allowing the same heroes to be on both teams.
>implying the game is balanced
>over 100 heroes in the game, and you only see OD, Invoker, LD, Spectre, Omni, and Lion every game both competitively and in public games.
Everyone knows they intentionally throw off balance and create FotM heroes to generate patch hype and pad out the life span of the game.
Or I guess it's just a coincidence that every heroes $35 skin has been released on the same patch the said hero was buffed into first pick/first ban.
>>332496183
It's balanced around the current meta, as the meta shifts they buff/nerf heroes to stop the meta from being stale as fuck.
>>332496493
That's the dumbest shit I've ever heard, Lina was never picked until about a year ago, CM still is never picked outside of very niche lineups, TB was never picked and still isn't outside of 1-2 people being their specialty hero.
OD invoker spectre and omni are all current patch heroes, LD is the only exception that has been around for a while and only for certain teams.
You can say your opinion on the game, but don't stout completely unfounded bullshit.
>>332496183
As balanced as any game with 100+ playable characters could hope to be.
So long as I can still ult low HP heros from across the map and then be called a hacker because I led the shot a little bit I will be happy
>>332496658
>Lina was never picked until about a year ago
wut
>CM still is never picked outside of very niche lineups,
CM wasn't given an arcana this patch, retard.
>TB was never picked
Literally what. They completely reworked the fucking game because he was so broken.
>OD invoker spectre and omni are all current patch heroes,
>current patch heroes
>current
>patch
>heroes
so you're saying the game is unbalanced?
>>332496493
>pa gets a $35 skin
>she's one of the worst heroes in the game
Explain.
>>332496818
PA was top pick/ban that patch and immediately got nerfed into oblivion.
>>332496862
What.
She has gotten nothing but buffs in the past 10 patches.
>>332496273
>its going nowhere, nothing changes, stale dead game
>developers are too stupid to create a new hero/new item/new map.
>developers are too stipid to balance
Fixed that for you mate, no problem.
>>332496183
>dota copies Thresh
*tsk tsk tsk*
>>332496862
No, no she wasn't. Please go back and watch the competitive matches from that patch, she was no where to be seen.
>>332496774
>wut
Nice retort
>CM wasn't given an arcana this patch, retard.
No fucking shit, she wasn't picked after her arcana you bumbling retard.
>Literally what. They completely reworked the fucking game because he was so broken.
No, no they didn't, link me the patch notes where they did that, I'll wait because their all readily available online.
>so you're saying the game is unbalanced?
No, again you bumbling retard, certain heroes are always going to be strong in the current meta, that doesn't remotely mean they are unbalanced, the current meta is heavy early aggression + pushing so OBVIOUSLY the heroes that excel at that are going to be the most picked, that has exactly 0 to do with balance.
PS. You're a fucking idiot who's obviously less than 4k scrub tier garbage.
>>332496183
The game where someone can single-handedly wipe all enemy team because of RNG dodges balanced?
>>332496957
>phase getting nerf was a buff
>abyssal getting nerfed was a buff
>basher getting nerfed was a buff
>desolater getting nerfed was a buff
>MoM getting nerfed was a buff
>Mjolnir getting nerfed was a buff
>literally every thing she builds getting nerfed was a buff
>what are indirect nerfs, most often the hardest of nerfs
Let me guess, Normal Skill?
>>332497150
Here a pity (You).
Every bait deserves at least one reply.
>>332496957
indirect nerfs i think
if i can recall rod of atos got buffed to get that no-miss thing
What went wrong?
No
>>332497326
Defence force of the Ancients
>>332497238
You are literally retarded or new to the game if you think Lina wasn't a regular pick less than a year ago.
>No, no they didn't
So when they completely changed the way illusions work, the way they damage structures, and added an additional glyph after T1 has been taken, that wasn't a direct respone to TB and Naga spam even though they directly said so? Jesus, dude. Get the Valve scrotum out of your eyes.
>No, again you bumbling retard, certain heroes are always going to be strong in the current meta
so the game is unbalanced?
>that doesn't remotely mean they are unbalanced,
how? If only a tiny fraction of the avaliable heroes are even viable how is that anything even close to balance?
>PS. You're a fucking idiot who's obviously less than 4k scrub tier garbage.
I was4.7kbefore I uninstalled this shitty fucking game. Now I just wish I could stop fucking betting on these stupid fucking "competitive" matches but it's just such ez Valvefunbucks.
>>332497392
>Misery has a star
>Meaning he's been to every International
>That feel when Secret kicked him and this'll be the first one he didn't go to
Heroes I'm Tired of Seeing:
Slark
BH
OD
Bane
Fuck these heroes. I'm so sick of seeing fag ass slark with his retarded ass fucking R bypassing dusts and sentries and even fountain true sight. That shit is BULLSHIT. You wanna make him invis and give him health regen in a fight? Fine, but don't make it bypass fucking dusts.
>>332496183
Reminder that Outworld Devourer
>bad wave clear
>can't damage buildings
>has no defensive or escape abilities
But he will still get gutted, thank to reddit complaining.
Spectre
>no building damage
>mediocre stat gain
>terrible farming speed and wave clear
>casting one spell uses 70% of your mana
But will also get gutted.
>>332497498
I am sure he will be as missed as another person with a TI streak, Synderen
>>332497392
as always, EternalAutism happened
>>332497480
>if you think Lina wasn't a regular pick less than a year ago.
wut
>>332496957
PA was TRUE rng when she had her arcana, aka you could crit twice in a row and kill someone fairly reliably
She was moved to Pseudo RNG, which means you will almost never get two crits in a row and will just sit there hitting for normal damage until you die.
>>332496957
Actually let's go ahead and count.
>6.78 PA arcana and PA dodge increased 5%
>6.79 dagger can now crit but does slightly less damage to compensate, big buff
>blur got a minor buff with detection and now detects invis heroes
>6.81 dodge increased by 10%, dagger cooldown reduced by 2 seconds
>6.81b attack speed from blink increased by 30%
>6.82 big buffs to blur minimap shit, now actually useful
>6.83 crit nerfed by 10% at level 6 and 11, still a shit spell either way and level 16 is still good
>6.85 another big buff to dagger as it can do attack effects, buffed blur delay again
>6.86 buffed int and int gain
>>332497278
>phase nerfed
>deso nerfed
>mjollnir nerfed
What am I reading. Basher/abyssal now just scale slightly worse with crit.
Real actual nerfs were the creation of strong defensive items like solar, glimmer, and atos.
Hardly matters as the bitch gets countered by fucking bkb and ghost scepter.
>>332497413
Here's your reply.
DotA will unfortunately never be truly balanced, and if it is, players won't be able to tell if it's balanced or not because Valve does its patching STRICTLY due to:
1. What the competitive scene picks
2. What current hero pickrates/winrates are
Meaning objective balance isn't even in the calculations.
Not that it can ever be truly balanced anyway. DotA has been patched back and forth for years with no sign of that momentum stopping any time soon. Games like Sm4sh have much smaller rosters and even they get regular patches for balance.
DotA will never be balanced, but it will come damn close.
>>332497882
>that feel when seeing those Track gold swings in TI5 matches
>>332497786
>phase not nerfed
The speed got reduced and the duration got fucking GUTTED
How the fuck is that not a nerf? Almost no hero in the game builds them anymore.
>deso nerfed
Yes. Less damage is a nerf.
>mjolnir nerfed
Yes. Less damage and no procs on invis is a nerf.
You have no idea what you're talking about, shitter.
>>332497498
Digital "North American" Chaos has a pretty good shot in the NA qualifiers.
>>332498012
>Increased movement speed bonus from 16% to 24%
Ah yes you are right I have no idea what I say.
;_;
>>332498191
Just join MVP in china if you want to go pro.
>>332498143
At least w33 and Misery don't have to play on the same team as EE and Arteezy
>>332498371
I have a minimum of 220 ping from there.
>>332497643
>Reminder that Outworld Devourer
>bad wave clear
can two shot creeps at level 8
>can't damage buildings
literally his only downside
>has no defensive or escape abilities
what.... all you have to do in a gank is astral the enemy or astral yourself and wait for the rotations. He's literally impossible to gank
>Spectre
>no building damage
literally her only downside
>mediocre stat gain
completely off set by bonus pure damage and 22% bonus reduction
>terrible farming speed and wave clear
you don't farm waves, retard. you last hit until your team ganks, ult in, get the kill with minimal effort, and tp back to lane. you farm pick offs, and then you farm entire teams 25 minutes in
>casting one spell uses 70% of your mana
buy an urn you shitter
>>332498171
literally every boot got hit with a movement speed reduction.
you're being intentionally daft and it's making you look like a retard.
>>332498432
So does them and still getting 8k mmr and became number 1 in chink rank.
>>332498392
I can't wait to see Secret crash and burn in a clusterfuck of egos again. I'm used to EE and Arteezy shenanigans but Puppey has gone too far this time. Universe is sacred.
>>332497150
I saw a sick ass (you) and got all excited. what the fuck man, put some effort in it for me.
>>332496183
>Is DotA balanced, /v/?
No.
Reddit is balancing it now, after all.
OD was reddit and Valve's latest fuckup.
Valve is supremely incompetent.
>>332498432
in an AMA QO said their team also play ranked with those pings.
>>332498534
I just want ixmike to make it to The International so he takes pictures with everyone's mothers
>>332498598
>>332498526
I didn't say it wasn't possible, just that it'd be annoying as fuck.
>>332497973
>that feel when the memeback makes your track gold irrelevant since you just give the enemy more gold when they kill you
>>332498534
>universe is sacred
>Puppey ask universe if he want to join them
>They said they will give answer later
>b-but puppey.
>>332498624
I'm pretty sure he coughs up the money to go anyway, he was at TI5.
>>332497882
No game where both sides are not the exact same has ever been balanced.
People complaining about "balance" are idealists and fools
>>332498630
But then your team might beat EG and Secret in the future.
Imagine the Chink server as a Hyperbolic Time Chamber.
It's balanced because everyone is OP. That's the Icefrog philosophy.
>over 60% pickrate at +5k mmr
>has amongst the highest winrates at +5k mmr
The best part? This reddit patch will last until the end of april, at the very least.
>>332498513
>hey phase boots got nerfed
>uh phase boots got changed, it's better for bursts of speed now
>no retard phase boots, boots of speed, tranquils, arcanes, and power treads got 5 less movespeed you are making yourself look stupid
I can't tell if you are trying as hard as you can to backpedal or if you are deranged.
>>332498723
>He was at TI5
nigger I was at TI5, he wasn't there. and he admitted on stream that when Wheel Wreck While Whistling went under he wasn't gonna be going to TI5 at all
My favorite memory of TI5 though was being high as shit one day because Washington and sitting out on the lawn area by Key Arena where they had that big projector set up so you could watch matches outside. Some guy in a trench coat and newsboy cap walked up and decided where we (besides me there were 2 guys and a THICK girl in our group) were sitting was the best place to sit, so he shook hands with all of us to introduce himself and claimed it was "a beautiful day for DotA" and sat right down next to the girl, but never actually made a move.
I didn't believe he was even real until we saw him in the Arena the next day
>>332498872
As a Nyx spammer this is the first time I always got praised and commend from teammate for at least 5 times a day.
>spam invoker
>people are too retarded to spam the counter.
>NYX NYX NYX NYX NYX NYX NYX NYX NYX
>>332498901
I said movement got reduced, and duration got gutted
Am I wrong? No.
Please stop responding to me now, kid. Tell me about how PA actually never got nerfed or something when she clearly fucking did.
>>332497585
Biggest problem isn't his ultimate, it's his purge allowing him to freely purge dust whenever the fuck so he can just shadow blade away. If he gets invis the only good way to see him is by either baiting out the purge before you dust or by placing anti-invis wards, but he's running at like 522 fucking movement speed while you're trying to do that
>>332498872
Invoker has been unbalanced garbage ever since they added him to the game (I'm talking since Dota 1).
>hey guys you know how you have four skills
>well this guy has like 10
>dont ask why lol
Recently, I saw Invoker do a deafening blast in every direction and apparently it's a buff. They buffed Invoker.
Anybody who doesn't think Invoker is a problem, probably picks Invoker.
>>332498980
Bouty is a bigger counter. You want to shit on Invoker during the laning stage and give him a bad start.
This is also why Bounty has 35% pickrate and 55% winrate at +5k.
>>332499020
I'll go with backpedaling.
>>332499046
Hmmm, somehow I get the impression that you're not very good at Dota and it has nothing to do with the fact that Invoker is overpowered.
>>332499079
>Bigger counter
Problem is if your mid is retarded and their Invoker still can manage till mid to end game.
Only Nyx can match up with Invoker till end game because 2 of his basic skills really counter him hard.
>>332499135
I get the impression that you're a shit eating faggot who likes to reply for no reason.
Kill yourself.
>>332499170
>>332499046
>>332499135
Invoker is OP because people only can pick their safe zone heroes pool.
>>332496183
There's a meta, if you don't put the effort to understand the most effective teams and skills to currently use, you don't belong in the 4k bracket.
Also to keep in mind calculation of items, that separates 3k with 4k players. Balance is better than LoL any ways that is very static according to a new patch.
>>332499046
>>well this guy has like 10
He had even more pre Dota 2.
However his biggest negative was supposed to be that he's level hungry to balance him. But they kept buffing him to make him stronger and stronger early game.
Now he gets Invoke for free and can shit on people in lane with coldsnap and alacrity, he has free hp regen, gets insane movespeed, gets great right click, etc.
He's good at almost everything now with almost no real weakness.
>clicked watch
>see this
>wat do
>>332497194
this is bait, right?
>>332499319
>not banning Void
I want to see the result of that game.
>>332499319
The problem with Invoker is that he does everything better than every other hero.
What's his worst spell, Ice Wall? It's the best fucking slow in the game.
>>332496183
More so than any other game in its genre
>widest professional pick/ban rates of any assfaggot
in terms of a moba with over a hundred characters, I'd say it's pretty fucking balanced
there are some notable heroes that have been trouble to balance like riki though
HOLY SHIT THAT BASE RACE!
>>332499778
riki ult got nerfed to the fucking ground
>only hits heroes now
what a fucking joke
>>332499856
Does Riki exist in CM mode?
>>332499405
Playing Void is so good right now. Free Mek or better every 8 seconds. You have to build for survival and sustain which means your damage output takes a huge hit, but with Time Walk being what it is you shrug off any damage sent your way while continuing to kill people with papercuts.
>>332499856
I played a few matches of dota about a week ago after not playing for months
holy fuck riki's ult is complete garbage, it's so goddamn slow. Unless your team has disables up the ass it's useless
>>332499610
It's not so bad now that they finally fixed the bug where it lingered on magic immune heroes for like 2 fucking seconds for ABSOLUTELY NO REASON
It's also not so bad now that you can BKB out of the meteor/deafening blast combo. He's still really strong, but those changes really helped.
>>332499915
What does M stand for in CM mode?
>>332499856
But Riki is opin Dota Imba.
>>332499610
>300 damage right clicks like 15 minutes into the game with fantastic attack speed from alacrity
>armor shredding tanky summons with range from forge spirits
>one of the longest range aoe disables in the game with tornado
>one of the best aoe slows in the game with ice wall that lingers after you leave it
>global 500+ damage sun strike
>gigantic fuck you -600 mana burn that gives invoker mana with emp
>stunned for .4 seconds every .6 seconds for too many seconds with cold snap
>outstanding disable and disarm and position wrecker with deafening blast
>yeah nah you're got ganking me because i'm invisible and moving faster and slowing you with ghost walk
>why not have even more wave clear with one of the most damaging aoe spells in the game that synergizes with several of my other spells haha meatball
>also humongous HP regen if I need it, or movespeed if I want it, or just amazing right clicks securing me early farm
>Oh and thanks for getting rid of my one weakness by making it so I don't need to put levels into invoke
>or wait until level two to have a spell
Invoker has more crowd control than any other caster, more damage than any other caster, more right click for most of the game than almost every other right clicker, fantastic movespeed, built in regen, several spells that interrupt channeling and the best slow in the game.
He has most of this by fifteen minutes. He has all of it by thirty.
Fuck this hero. He's been OP for a long time and then for some reason they buffed him several patches in a row. If an invoker player is any good at the hero, then the only way to beat him is for his team to somehow drag him down.
>>332499976
meme
>>332499046
There was a fairly long period in Dota 2 where he wasn't played much at all, then he got buffed and buffed and buffed (same shit happened to Alchemist). I think the free invoke and the huge int gain buff pushed him over the edge. He's just too good at all stages of the game, he used to be a lot weaker early-game.
>>332499854
>>332500016
Or pick a counter.
>>332499856
>riki ult got nerfed to the fucking ground
I disagree. You shouldn't make it into some gimmicky battlefury shit.
Now it helps make him more survivable and with the low cooldown it is always up. It can also help you deal safe backstab damage while applying orbs like OoV and shit.
Go phase, bottle, oov and start killing heroes with the 1-4-1-1 build. That is how you play Riki.
>>332500060
kek
>>332499915
>Does Riki exist in CM mode?
No. But OD after his rework and several buffs after it was =)
>>332500091
or you could be playing bounty hunter instead
>>332500068
>I'll pick nyx!
>oh he has a bkb and in the time allotted by it can kill one or more of my teammates with his team
>bh too!
>Oh with any help at all he'll have detection and he has a great toolkit to survive early ganks and then regen from them
>oh and we've dedicated a large portion of our team just to fucking with invoker, weakening our lanes and leaving space for the enemy carry and offlaner
Yeah good fucking luck with your counter. Every hero in the game has counters. Invoker's are more limited and less effective and no one does as much as he does when not counter picked.
>Dota 2 get major updates/rework before every major
>We have 3 majors and international each year meaning at least 4 major updates/rework
>every change is made in account the performance and feedback from professional players but with a twist from Icefrog that makes players find new ways to play the game
Is it so hard to find oportunity to adapt to new metas and maybe get advantage from that?
Dota 2 isn't a simple game, from time to time people will find broken things that may see "work as intented" and then get changed on some next update like the fountain hook and how void could could be a pain in the ass with his backtrack.
This is how Dota 2 is, this is why it takes so much to get a new hero, because they have to fit and don't broke the game like when Mercurial (a.k.a. Spectre) was out on 6.28 and she was OP as shit and gave you 80% chance of winning the game just by picking her.
It's actually as balanced as it's ever been
6.86 has seen the most variety in drafts of any patch thus far.
>>332500091
inb4 people cry about how its not "MAJORITY ITEM BUILD" and riki is "TRASH TIER"
>CAPS FOR EMPHASIS
>>332500212
>or you could be playing bounty hunter instead
Sure. Bounty is overall better.
I'm just saying that Riki after the rework is a better hero than he was before.
Riki needs buffs and some more tweaks, but he might eventually become viable.
Then again reddit is balancing this game now, so probably not.
>>332500293
like this?
>>332499331
>>332500235
I just want be reasonable about playing against invoker instead of whinning until reddit keep spamming "plz nerf'
But looks like you just want an angry theory debate.
Invoker wont be instally own a BKB or buying a first slot BKB and Spike Carapace is fuck up his every initiation combo or you can just copy the Pro by spamming FOTM Void.
Just saying.
>>332499046
What, when he was added in Dota 1 you could only invoke 1 skill at time, making you use only 2 skill from a total of 27, most of them worked similar to other heroes skill, he was pure garbage.
>>332500016
You forget another thing about Invoker.
He has no real core item build, he can build basically anything he wants.
>>332500235
not that OP but mana burn at max has a cooldown of 4 seconds, and past mid game you can usually 3-4 shot invoker with it
>>332500285
This
Earth Spirit is the most recent hero (created, not ported) and he's STILL fucking ridiculous after a metric assload of nerfs
>>332496183
It was around TI2-3 when the overall hero pool was fairly small. Now every pub is a shit show and the only thing worth watching are pro games where op hero will get banned.
>>332500373
Next you gonna post something from last year with 4 SF games and ignores other heroes?
>>332500380
>Invoker wont be instally own a BKB
just like how Mana Burn isn't instantly a counter to him.
>>332500512
Mana burn does almost nothing in early game against invoker or any heroes regardless.
>>332496183
the players take turns picking heroes so it all balances out
>>332500285
About half of the changes in recent patches are taken directly from reddit. OD was balanced around what reddit said ONLY.
The quality of the balance patches has dropped significantly and many changes have made the game worse, like memeback.
>>332500373
Ranked pubs are a whole other beast from comp.
All you do in ranked AP is pick the patch winners
>>332500543
That's my point, senpai.
By the point mana burn does anything to Invoker or OD, it's already too late to matter.
Why the fuck are you people saying Reddit balances this game. Icefrog never took feedback from casual shitters like them or us.
I'm looking at the DotA2 subreddit and it's no different than the circlejerking anywhere else on that site.
>>332500512
well then you can just pick spectre or omniknight, both of whom absolutely put invoker in the dumpster
>>332496183
>le balanced flying statue of sharp intelect
Spectre + zeus meta, vokers everywhere but safe to OD, its pretty balanced.
>>332500571
Regardless of what leddit said.
OD is pretty much vacuum for almost 3 years in all pro scene.
Invoker was a year and a half.
>>332500571
>memeback
>tfw we will never have those days where dominating plays will get you rewarded and win the game
>tfw we stuck in le epic xXXD cumback mechanics
>>332499020
You're a god damn retard if you don't think phase got buffed. The burst of speed is greater meaning more catch potential, the burst of speed isn't removed when doing an action beside walking either, "oh no all boots got less movespeed" which isn't exactly a nerf to phaseboots when it applies to all boots you inbred piece of shit.
>>332500330
riki has went through a weird cycle of changes from the previous patches
his transition has been so fucking rough as fuck
even the dust buff alone made it hard for him even fit in
>>332500598
re-read my post again, I never mention a jack shit about mana burn.
>>332500380
Fine, you want reasonable?
Invoker has most of the tools in the game, other heroes applications are far more limited, but there's no tradeoff for invoker. He does these things at least as well as other heroes, while doing all of them. While counters exist, and mana burn is a fantastic one, they rely on scenarios where invoker is alone (mana burn, despite its low cooldown and even with aether lens/aghs [which Nyx will also not instantly own, especially considering how much better at farming invoker is] it's not easy to get off multiple times before invoker and his team do a bunch of shit). Invoker does more than any other hero in the game when uncountered, and is also one of the hardest heroes in the game TO counter, and those counters are incredibly underwhelming compared to many of the others in the game.
Tell me what about that was unreasonable. Saying "some things are more effective against him than other things!" does not somehow make invoker non-overpowered.
>>332500408
Past mid game invoker will probably have a bkb and definitely have a team.
>>332500665
that's because valve refused to put in a concede button
because of the previous lack of comeback mechanics, most people would just abandon games or AFK
>>332500604
Yup.
This patch is all about stacking your side with more broken heores than the other.
It's not about counter drafting, outplaying, or strategy anymore.
It's just. "well, they have OD and LD, but we have Omni, Spectre, Invoker, and Enchantress. I think we win." And you do. You do win.
>>332500689
> they rely on scenarios where invoker is alone (mana burn
>>332500686
Balancing cycle in dota:
>"the same 5 heroes every game, when's the new patch"
>new patch arrives
>"ohmygod so many changes, nothing is as it was"
>people do hilarious theorycrafting that never works in real games
>1-2 heroes/items are broken and get patched in a week or two
>"this patch is so much better balanced than anything before"
>pro players figure out which are the fotm heroes this patch
>pro games return to the "5 same heroes every match" formula
>pub players copy these heroes
>"the same 5 heroes every game, when's the new patch"
>>332500602
There are plenty of reddit suggestions that get added 1:1 to the game. Icefrog might not read reddit himself but plenty of valve dev's do and they suggest things to icefrog. Thus, reddit affects the balance of the game.
The all-directions deafening blast was copied from reddit, for example.
>>332500604
>invoker is one of the most common hex carries, great against spectre, with many ranged tools for dealing with her and reliable escapes if she gets close
>invoker's tornado removes guardian angel
This is also assuming that you get both of those heroes. In Captain's mode, unlikely. More likely in all pick but the picks are still one at a time and spectre and omni have more obvious counters than invoker.
>>332500016
You missed the update where blast doesn't cancel any channeling, just moves you backward and disarm you for a few seconds and costs 300 of mana.
For me the buffs on invoker just made him a bit better in early game, they lowered the lv 1 alacrity from +30 to +10 agi/int bonus, changed the timing of tornado to make heroes land, and all the stuff you can do with him you write like it is simple to do, he is really hard to master unless you're a douche and uses macro.
>>332500769
Problem is literally nobody plays Captains anymore.
Captain's Mode is a 325+ minute wait for me at 4.3k
it's balanced in a rock-paper-scissors fashion
which I suppose is technically balance, but ideally want a "anything can work" type of balance
>>332500757
This trend started with TI4.
>>332500824
25*
>>332500746
>be reasonable!
>Fine, here's a long post.
>Wow one part of it doesn't directly apply to what I said in my most recent post!
k
Spiked carapace is great vs just about every hero in the game. This makes invoker not overpowered?
Do you really, truly, genuinely believe that invoker is not overpowered?
>yfw Sven is finally meta again
>>332500710
For all the situations where it would be beneficial to have a concession button, it is significantly worse for all the situations that a concession button ruins games.
Shitty people have awful perception skills. They often over-evaluate their abilities or underestimate the abilities of others. Dunning-Kruger. These sorts of people fucking quit early, which would ruin the fun for others who think it's worth trying. And the only way to make these shitty people improve at life is to force them to drag their sorry asses through the game and try even when they think there's no hope. And if they just want to be shit they're welcome to go to low-priority.
>>332500824
That's because nobody wants a random scrub to pick heroes for them.
I wish valve would implement the Banning Pick from HoN. Captains ban first then everyone picks their heroes like in ranked AP.
>>332500602
>Why the fuck are you people saying Reddit balances this game. Icefrog never took feedback from casual shitters like them or us.
Because there are countless examples of this from over a year back. From small things like changing Riki's new passive that combined invis and backstab to cloak & dagger almost instantly after it was posted on reddit to continuously buffing the reworked OD because reddit kept saying how bad he was (while they still kept maxing astral first).
We have the infamous example of how they copypasted that terrible LC Aghs upgrade (directly from reddit) that made Duel last forever and after about a week reddit complained about how bad it was (which all the competent people kept saying even before it was implemented).
Do you know what it was changed to? Another bad reddit Aghs suggestion.
There are even threads on reddit that have collected all the shit reddit has suggested that Valve implemented and the lists are pretty fucking big.
It's painfully obvious that the Dota balance team at Valve are either so understaffed they can't playtest properly or just don't care anymore, so they copypaste from reddit and then let the bitching on reddit dictate how they rebalance the game.
>>332496183
I don't know, I play low priority because whenever I get out of it, I always play games drunk.
>>332500016
>for his team to somehow drag him down.
As a good invoker player, you have no idea just how often this happens (read: 9/10 matches).
Yeah I've got lots of cool toys but just like riki one dust and I'm easily gankable.
>>332500887
and I'm already sick of him. Fuck that armor.
>>332496183
you know goddamn fucking well it isn't Chris, Invoker, Pudge and OD can FUCK themselves as of this patch, holy fuck!
>>332500921
This dosesn't work with the meta we have now. If the enemie team is in lead with invoker/od there is no chance in cumback because those heroes are so incredibly op.
>>332500795
I know you can use abilities during the knockback, but does the initial hit still interrupt channeling?
Even if it doesn't, he has the long range instant cold snap, and the incredibly long range aoe tornado. He also is a great carrier for euls and hex.
He is not "a bit better" in early game. He no longer needs to put levels into invoke. He has a spell at level one. These are both gigantic changes. He NEEDS to be weak at early game so you can meaningfully slow his farm. The one weakness invoker has is being behind.
>>332500645
So that makes it ok for them to be OP now? No it doesn't.
OD wasn't even allowed to be tested out for a while in pubs (he was still in CM while Riki wasn't) before hitting competitive. Heck he was still in CM but they didn't wait for him to be tested out in a single competitive match or tourney before rebalancing him.
They buffed him several times in a very short timespan because teh fuckign 2k and 3k and lower shitters on reddit said OD was bad.
Is that how a game should be balanced?
>>332500994
It's okay my man
He's balanced by the fact that he's a melee carry
He can be top in networth by 10k gold and still be kited to death
>>332500983
>blames his team for dragging him down
>elaborates by describing a scenario that is only truly dangerous if he is alone, without his team
Invoker players.
>ooga
>booga
>>332500330
I actually really like new riki.
Sure he is on the weaker side but he is basically bh that's more rightclick and has better teamfight.
>>332500757
And this is why I exclusively play AR these days. Sure you get fucked some times with retarded potato drafts like having 5 supports with no push potential vs a well balanced team of supports and carries but at least it's not replaying the same fucking game with the same fucking heroes every time.
>>332500921
>Shitty people have awful perception skills.
All this does is they throw the match by overextending once or twice after a massive networth lead and the enemy is back in the game (or possibly even ahead in terms of networth).
It's retarded. Like blue shell retarded.
>tfw designing your own shitty oc custom heroes, thinking of how they would fit into or change dota's meta
>kept telling yourself you'll make them a reality with custom map tools
>never followed throughI know you have them saved somewhere, post them.
>>332500983
>Yeah I've got lots of cool toys but just like riki one dust and I'm easily gankable.
Eul and Blink.
I despise MOBAs but I feel they balance out pretty well in general.
There are enough unique abilities and players on the field that it smooths out most wrinkles. Only the really obnoxious stuff will stand out, and the patch cycles for those games are pretty damn quick.
>>332500934
>>332500757
Then we bitch and moan to Icefrog and he fucking strings them up by the neck until their legs stop moving.
Valve is a brilliant company with a severe lack of employees. The rules of business says we can't bitch about it because it's a private company.
It's always been about the game. Icefrog knows that otherwise he wouldn't have put up with our shit for so long.
Where are these Reddit DotA suggestions. Spoonfeed me their rubbish; the site is impossible to browse.
>we wil never have fun heros like sniper pre shrapnel meme
it hurts so much why did the frog killed my favorite hero
>>332500934
>Spam endless balance suggestions
>Be surprised they match up to actual changes
Yea because if thousands of people are guessing, the chances of a few of them guessing right are non-existent right?
Fucking listen to yourself you delusional toolbag.
>>332500994
hes only getting pick/ban because of the od meme
thanks to sven pickers i can actually start playing SD again
>>332501301
>Where are these Reddit DotA suggestions. Spoonfeed me their rubbish; the site is impossible to browse.
Use their search function, I only ever go there to read patch analysis.
>>332501085
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Q5nqQ0kug4
>>332497276
>not a single good dodge hero in the game
>dodge is easily countered with silver edge, MKB, Atos, spells or not being a retard.
Okay buddy. Please show us a replay of the time you got beaten by a PA.
>>332500873
>This makes invoker not overpowered?
yes
>Do you really, truly, genuinely believe that invoker is not overpowered?
No
>>332501476
PA also has no hard disable, no counter to ghost scepter, incredibly vulnerable without bkb, kit is entirely shut down by common items etc.
>>332501429
That winrate drop was only because 99% of shitters who play invoker can do nothing but Eul's combos.
He's still incredibly broken at all stages of the game.
>>332501315
>Yea because if thousands of people are guessing, the chances of a few of them guessing right are non-existent right?
Guesswork?
I literally gave you specifc fucking examples.
Do you think it's pure fucking coincidence that "Permanent invisibility" was changed to "Cloack & Dagger" like 2 hours after the reddit thread for example?
You have fucking NO IDEA what you're talking about. These suggestions are from upvoted threads or posts and they are directly copypasted.
In the case of shit like OD was it also just a coincidence that he was repeatedly buffed despite being good SEVERAL TIMES IN A VERY SHORT TIMEFRAME because reddit kept saying how fucking shit the new Orb was?
Yeah you're right, ALL of it is just pure coincidence!
>>332501476
>atos gives accuracy
Well shit.
Most newer champions were copied from the site called dotastrategies.
Icefrog never made anything on his own.
Same thing goes for balance changes.
>>332501218
If they're throwing the match, then there's a hope because they're actually clicking their fucking hero and throwing it into the fray. If they're intentionally feeding then it will be obvious and we punish them.
Even if they emotionally lose hope and play worse it is still fucking better than being a faggot and entirely given up after your team has given up 0-5 early game and wasted everyone's first 10 minutes.
>>332501560
I just posted it to you see the nerfs on the blast. Invoker got pratically reworked. I still play exort invoker but hate these wombo combo to kill just one enemy that only shows that you have quick fingers but no brain to adapt a situation.
>>332501564
>Being a literal conspiracytheory faggot
Sounds really credible bub.
>Two hours after!
Yea implementing a major change in two hours after something is posted sure seems likely, surely this wasn't something that was already in the works before that :^)
>You have NO IDEA what you're talking about
Literally just going "I'm right and you're wrong" there bub, not a good way to win an argument, all you have is desperate grasping at "muh correlation equals definitive causation!" bollocks, which is hilariously juvenile.
>>332501429
>guys he's not broken anymore he can't guarantee a kill on nearly any hero at nearly any stage as soon as he gets euls (or without, if he used tornado like a good player)
My long list of complaints about him earlier didn't even touch on his combos.
>>332501542
>>332501476
i never understood why that people complain about her dodge when her scariest shit is her damage output
im more focused on getting disarm and armor than getting one item that kills off her ability to dodge
hell even a dagon, if not lethal, can force her to retreat because she has a shitty health pool provided that bkb is down
>>332501429
>52.79% in +5k
>not op
alright
>>332501524
Good to know, I won't bother with you anymore.
>>332501619
Most heroes in dota today were sugested by comunity and tweaked by icefrog. But the Faggot known as Pendragon stole the foruns and used many of these sugestion to design champions for LoL.
>>332501647
The memeback also makes matches last on average much longer (as if that was needed).
Memeback punishes people for actually being ahead, which is stupid. It means that an enemy can make several mistakes but the ones ahead are not even allowed to make one, otherwise the tables turn. How is that good game design?
It would be like in soccer that the team that is behind in scores will have their goals count as several goals.
If a comeback should happen, it should be because the team that is behind made good plays. It should be skill vs skill.
That was the entire point behind things like smoke and split push.
>>332501429
He needed a nerf so bad. Fucking combos would kill anyone and anything and it wasn't even hard to pull off.
He's still good but at least it takes a tiny bit more brainpower to play him.
>>332501736
Her damage output can be harshly limited by stacking armor, just having shit like vlads and mek on the team, or early game things like buckler and basi.
Later on her damage output is canceled by ghost scepter and lategame when she has no time left on bkb abyssal just removes her from the game, PA is currently one of the worst "carry" heroes in the game.
>>332501754
Still not as bad as centaur's 66% winrate back when his ult used to stun
>>332501720
>a major change
It was a very very small patch that basically only changed the name of the skill.
But it's clear I'm not talking to a reasonable person here, so I'm just wasting my time responding to you.
Go shitpost somewhere else, because I'm done with you.
>>332496183
>muh balance
>I can only balance around 10 heroes in a one map game
Why does icecuck suck so much?
>>332501647
>losing badly as riki
>2 lanes down, can barely hold on
>almost have rapier
>have gem
>cocky shit bh that had been spamming "good game" every minute carrying rapier
>kill him
>2 rapier
>900 damage backstabs in ult
>win
>>332501754
>52%
>OP
What you want? Put it even? If it were 65% or higher I would get worried.
>people complained about sniper and troll
>when they were 100x more easier to deal with than OD, Invoker, Spectre, etc.
>>332501935
>>332501881
t. invoker picker
>>332501935
A bigger issue is his pickrate being over 60%.
60% in a game with over 100 heroes.
>>332501889
>More "I'm right and you're wrong"
Yea, go right on back to your little cave and go ooga with the rest of your tribe you fucking cretin.
Seriously how pathetically narcissistic are you? If you have any spine and decency you'd just fuck right off rather than try and leave in a huff with a pitiable declaration of supremacy that is neither warranted nor earned.
Face it kid, you have no argument to back your bullshit, just desperate grasping and contrived connections and plausible bullshit.
>>332501736
>meh base damage
>no damage from spells
>her level 1 crit is worse than juggs level 1 crit
>her level 11 crit is barely better than juggs level 4 crit
She is one of the lowest damage dealers in the entire game until she gets items and 16.
>>332501947
Maybe in this patch
>>332501760
I never said Invoker not OP, I just said pick counter.
>>332501815
So they say.
Howcome everyone calls for nerfs instead of just adapting to a situation?
>>332502060
>>Do you really, truly, genuinely believe that invoker is not overpowered?
>No
>I never said invoker is not OP
fuck off I'm done taking your bait (after I finish taking this bait).
>>332501845
>Her damage output can be harshly limited by stacking armor
debatable
if she grabs bf, armor is pretty useless and crit cleaves can still decimate anything
scepter is also very situational
while it stops her from instagibbing you that doesnt stop her from hitting anyone else
i simply think that disarm is better to shut her down over all
>>332502017
i dont disagree
im just stating that killing off her ability to dodge is fucking useless while disarming her is fairly better to deal with her
>>332502105
>Adapting means playing shit I don't want to play
That's why.
Being forced to do something you don't want to just to cope with a broken situation is something a beta cuck would put up with.
>>332501845
If you stack armor she will need only 1 or 2 crits more to kill any hero, if she farms a Satanic she is praticaly invincible while still hitting, safest way is make her not lock anywone, by that is having hex/disarm/athos to make sure she don't scape.
>>332502145
>>332502060
Disregard that I suck cocks. I completely misread your post, and am a faggot.
>>332502037
Invoker is way way better now than old Troll in his prime. Invoker is also much better than Sniper.
OD is also much harder to deal with than Sniper (Sniper was just a ranged glass cannon, OD is a durable cannon with utility from astral and a teamfight ult that burns 40% of max enemy mana and can easily teamwipe).
Spectre is very good now with memeback being so prevalent. She doesn't even really need to farm now and the laning stage is borderline irrelevant. You can shit on her in lane but with memeback she can still get very good farm quickly.
>>332502105
>le just adapt
>just pick invoker or od before the others do :))))))
>pick Spectre
>team lost every lane horribly
>we're down something like 23 kills 20 minutes in
>enemy goes for rosh
>we contest it
>we team wipe, but I killed a support and their offlane before we died
>got almost 3k gold for it and 4 levels
>this happens again
>I'm suddenly most farmed in the game
>we win
B A L A N C E
I've raised 1.2k MMR in 6.86 by spamming Spectre and LD, and I don't even feel bad about it anymore. It's just funny.
>>332502145
>>Do you really, truly, genuinely believe that invoker is not overpowered?
>No
>I never said invoker is not OP
Eh?
>>332502105
Because you see the same heroes every fucking game, and you end up 'adapting' every single game.
It's boring.
>>332502214
Just counter his jungle.
>>332502105
>Howcome everyone calls for nerfs instead of just adapting to a situation?
Adapting to what? How do you deal with shit like OD and Invoker? Apart from picking Nyx that only sorta counter them, what else can you do?
>>332502283
just tp when he use ult
>>332502171
Stacking armor is early/midgame
Lategame you have abyssal, ghost scepter, etc and just outlasting her bkb and proceeding with the usual lockdowns.
The main risk the hero poses is bursting a hero down quickly, which is what armor prevents, and buys you time.
If she farms a full satanic then what the fuck have you been doing and how have you not farmed an abyssal/hex/silver edge/mkb etc.
>>332502171
>only 2 more crits
>only takes her 3-5 crits
>only 12-34 consecutive attacks to kill someone on average
Oh no what will we ever do against scary hero
>>332502170
>comparing a game with being cucked
I see your problem here.
>Complaining about meta
Remember in 2012 when /v/ complain about PL still having a Wind Walk and not knowing that True Sight item exist?
Good time
>>332502364
>Comparing putting up with broken shit and adapting for them instead of making them fix their shit
>To being a bitch and not standing up for yourself
Gee I dunno lad, I see no similarities in disposition here :^)
>>332500887
>it's an OD meta
fuck him so hard. now the mid lane is a wash because no melee mids can handle the glowing dildo of stealing brains
>>332501828
While I don't disagree with what you've said I propose that if you're ahead, you should be making less mistakes because you have better gear. It is satisfying punishing people for their hubris. The lead you've earned is due to your superior plays, I don't see any reason why their superior plays to yours shouldn't put them back into the game.
I respect the sports analogy but I propose a war analogy. The enemy could be winning and have great assets from their victories, but if the underdog hamstrings the opponent in a major way should they not reap the disproportionate rewards from the momentum gained?
I do hate that games last longer if this is indeed the cause. But then, when I play with my friends we try and end this shit in under half an hour almost all the time; players just have a glaring weakness to early strategies. If we're winning we end it; if we fail to capitalize on our advantage that is our fault. Blaming the challenges like high ground or the opponent rallying together or them having late-game heroes is just that, an excuse. If we have the advantage we need to choke them out.
I understand where you're coming from. And I don't think we'll convince each other of our perspectives. But my friends and I don't let ourselves get cocky - if we earned a lead, it is the discipline that maintains it. From a pro-competitive perspective it might make games shit to watch, but personally I don't give a shit about that. We're not high ranked either if that matters but that does not negate the need for discipline.
>>332502408
I miss that spell.
>>332502408
and that got removed so who was in the right?
How do I stop the people I know who are bad at farming from picking alch and going midas -> radiance?
>>332502438
>he doesnt know about 4.2
Wind Walk got removed because its useless, not because its OP.
>>332502426
No mid at all can handle Outhouse Deflowerer.
It's retarded. LD can lane against him alright, but that's assuming nobody is going to gank you because you're mid LD.
>say something is overpowere and needs to be toned down, present arguments to back it up
>NUH UH, LEARN TO PLAY
Every time.
>>332502438
>and that got removed so who was in the right?
Holy shit, 4 years and you still salty?
>>332502445
You don't.
You just lose and dodge any game you see them on your team again.
>>332502352
>first crit starts after 12 attacks
You know this is not how it works, don't be stupid, smartass
She can crit 3 times in just a single blink strike and it will take about 2 seconds to that happen, if you survive the blink strike then you can crited again. She can get 1500 crits with a basher, so tell me how that will be with a support that have just a little more than this in health without hex or any sort of disarm,
>>332502207
But that is bull, OD has plenty of counters, silence and spell immunity to name a few. Old troll was basically just attack moving to the enemy ancient and still winning because the best you could do was to buy halberd to disarm him for a few seconds and even that was shit. Invoker is bullshit though, Leshrac level of cancer - but Spectre is still useless first 10 minutes or so, and if she has a bad start and the enemy team wont make retarded mistakes she can still lose.
>>332502445
>midas into radiance alch
Literally have never seen this.
What mmr?
I still see fucking worthless god damn trash game losing asshole alchs go radiance>manta though.
>>332502508
>ask if these heroes aren't OP why are they picked in every pub and competitive game 100% of the time
>they just deflect the question and post a smug anime girl or something
>>332502625
>Spectre is still useless first 10 minutes or so, and if she has a bad start and the enemy team wont make retarded mistakes she can still lose.
>can jump anybody at level 6
ok
>>332502501
fucking hate it. at least you can counter play against invoker or qop.
>OD + Omni combo
>mfw
>>332497392
>extremely volatile
>unusual offlane hero pool
those are really polite ways of saying that they just do whatever the fuck they want and hope it works
>>332502445
If the community does not sufficiently punish your team for being down a hero then you can't help the people you know.
I love Alchemist, but if you play him like a giant creep then you deserve to get wrecked. The only thing I can really say is yell at your friends to try and use Acid Spray and actually fucking fight. Alchemist has ridiculous early game.
>>332502625
>Old troll was basically just attack moving to the enemy ancient and still winning because the best you could do was to buy halberd to disarm him for a few seconds and even that was shit.
OD is basically just attack moving to the enemy ancient and still winning because the best you could do was to buy BKB to not take 700 pure damage a second from him while having all your intelligence drained for a few seconds and even that was shit.
>>332502428
>you should be making less mistakes because you have better gear.
You are. The problem is that those few mistakes gets punished very hard.
You're basically not allowed to make any mistakes if you're ahead or you get fucked.
It's flat out bad game design and is only intended to cater to the bad players. It also makes early game lineups utterfly terrible and not a viable strat.
Now the best overall strat is to pick a bunch of heroes that scale well and wait for the inevitable 1-3 mistakes the enemy makes and you're ahead. It's stupid.
>>332497392
you tell me
>>332502438
Dopple Walk got removed after 2 years of PL being a trash hero.
>>332502445
>Play AR
>Ally alch safelane
>Enemy brood offlane
>Alch maxes greed while having only vengeful spirit to support him, loses lane
>Ally Zues, think's he's support or some shit when he's the only mid we have
>Goes mid two waves in against pudge, loses lane
>PL offlane against PA with some tinker support shit
Alchs man, why the fuck do you max greed when you can just skill acid spray and fuck brood, why max greed when you have no ability to reliably lasthit anything and no way to secure your lane.
>Be IO, save bot with ganks, salvage top through stacking jungle, save mid with ganks
>>332502779
>pl being a trash hero
thats because icefrog nerfed illus.
>>332502590
Use force after she blinks.
Kill her for blinking on you
Use BKB so she can't blink.
Use ghost so she can't attack.
Get someone else to stun her after she blinks.
She is pathetic unless she crits all the time, and she probably will not.
Remove her crit and the dodge part of blur and give her real spells and she might be picked.
>>332502675
>Uwah I have this guy globally teleported next to me when I was over extending and got smoke ganked!
This is why you are still 4k
>>332502676
>OD + Omni combo
I find it funny that this combo only viable in pub and work like a charm while pro are consider it a trash combo.
But anything with people who choose to make a viable teamwork/counter in pub is OP because most pub player are selfish as fuck in term of picking heroes with synergy.
>>332502908
but I'm 5k family
>>332502830
Yes and?
>>332502501
>try to gank od as duo
>he imprisons one of you and you have no follow up cc
>he walks away
or
>he imprisons himself to buy time for his supports to rotate to mid
3 man ganks mang
so much to throw in just for a single kill
>play a match of dota
>enemy team picks od, omniknight, zeus, specter, and another hero
what do you do?
>>332502908
>>Uwah I have this guy globally teleported next to me when I was over extending and got smoke ganked!
>This is why you are still 4k
>>332502836
>active blur: make her invisible for a short period and gives her move speed
>Assassins mark (ultimate): Marks an enemy hero with the mark of the assassin, it makes the hero take more damage than usual and a small chance of critical hit by Phantom Assassin. It lasts a few seconds.
>>332502932
The combo itself doesn't work against pros because they know how to counter it and they are a TEAM.
Pubs is just a collection of 5 dudes that want their digital penis stroked with a number increase but fail to see the bigger picture.
Right now, I am spamming LD. I still suck at him and can't micro for shit but I've been winning so that's something to look forward to.
>>332503040
DELETE THIS SPECTRE IS HIGH SKILL HERO
>>332503040
Why the hell Omni still got pick since 5 years a go and his winrate never goes down under 50%?And why people never complain about it?
>>332502774
RAVAGE AS WELL
ARE YOU KIDDING ME
>>332503048Now do medusa and warlock.
>>332503040
>That omni winrate in all brackets
What the flying fuck?
>>332503048
nah man
not another fucking sukuchi shit
the shit with blur is that it hides your from the minimap
expand on that
give free smoke for your allies or some shit
if you want a rework make her into a semi-carry
>>332502942
Then step it up chenpai
the only reason Spectre is so good in this patch is because of the rubberband gold mechanics, and that is played around by not fucking up
>>332503040
>5k pubs can play the game
t. you
>>332503134
Because omni is OP in pub all pick, but shit in -cm
>>332503134
>And why people never complain about it?
Because retards ignore supports
>>332503134
Because Omni is picked WITH the strong meta heroes and in pubs (especially with memeback) the weakned laning stage isn't punished hard enough.
You thought OD was bad on his own? Combo him with Omni. If you do then not even your laning stage is weakened.
>>332503218
>that webm
can't wait for this to happen again
>>332503250
You mean people ignored Winter Waifu?
>>332503084
Need any tips senpai?
I just started playing him this patch since my most played heroMeepogot dumpstered, but holy shit he is basically free wins.
