http://smashboards.com/threads/1-1-5-patch-notes.433162/
So who are you guys maining and your thoughts on the patch so far?
I cumed for every patch with a Mewtwo buff so I loved this one.
Ness been my main since N64. I still want N64 speed dair.
what does KGB mean?
They're still doing balance patches? I thought Hackurai was done with this game.
>>331774820
Knock Back Growth
An increase means a character gets launched farther as their percent goes up and a decrease, the opposite.
>>331774245
The zard
But so bad that people already have gone back to playing passive-aggresive in the gloryhole after the buffs. I'm so fucking tired on being the only one going aggro in all my matches
ITS NOT FAIR
>>331774245
>Nothing for Wario
>Again
>WiifitTrainer
>No changes
t-thanks
>>331774245
Fucking tits
How many games besides this and Blizzard shit do the devs spend so much time tweaking every little thing?
>>331774842
Done with DLC
Kuraudo has changed much. Have to work slightly harder now but still pretty good
>>331775187
>Nothing for Megaman
>again
>>331775575
You mean hide in the corner for half a second longer
>>331774245
Maining Bayo still, despite nerfs. The nerfts only made scrubs drop her, despite being a really good character still.
I feel good slapping shitters around with Corrin even after this patch. He's too fun to let a handful of nerfs make me quit him.
>>331774245
Charizard
The buffs and nerfs to Sheik and ZSS have made him borderline viable. He just needs Fly to link better and walk speed acceleration to not be complete ass.
Main Wario and Bowser.
Love that Bowser has been getting a fair amount of love in Sm4sh.
Wario is already perfect I guess so I'm not really bothered about the lack of buffs or anything.
I do wish he had his original shoulder machine gun charge though.
His current fSmash is shit.
I think they literally forgot Jiggs was in the game
Who /foreverftier/ here?
>>331774245
>no changes
>Ganondorf's Flame Choke got a bigger grab box both ground and air
Are you fucking kidding me
>>331774461
I don't main him, but I want it too. Would maybe be overpowered, though.
>>331776047
It'd be nice if you could drift to the sides during fly so you fucking snap to the edge properly and dont get fucked so hard for ever trying going offstage
>>331775894
her hair looks like a plastic bag
>>331776117
No amout of changes, buffs or nerfs, are going to change my mains.
>>331775834
Eh, that's how most Clouds play. I hate running away to charge his limit, I just let it charge by itself and occasionally do it manually if my opponent is too high in the air or try to zone. Komorikiri(?) does this and he's the best Cloud out there
>Samus
>Pacman's Down and Forward Smash got buffed in damage
>Second hit of Up Smash got nerved Slighty
>>331776283
>5.2 to 7.2
I smell stock advantage suicides in every match
>>331776319
Fly just flat out doesn't allow you to snap to the ledge during certain parts of it's animation. Drifting wouldn't change that.
>All those slight Samus buffs
>No more whiffs
Keep it coming
Alright, any changes after the patch?
>>331776740
>Grab finally got the Link/Lucas treatment
Thanks Samurai
Did they fix Samus?
>>331776396
>Yoshi/Mario/Luigi players who are literally mashing Nair every single time they get hit
That's what happens when a move has like -2 startup frames though I guess.
>>331776396
>ROB
literally get the fuck in, dont ever try to challenge him in a contest of spamming projectiles or ultrasafe spaced pokes, because you'll be bested at that and you will fucking lose like the little bitch you are.
Against rob either you play the man mode or get molested by lasers until 150, so again, GET THE FUCK IN YOU FAGGOT
t. Rob main
>>331776872
Still not great, but they fixed her totally fucked hitboxes and gave her some damage/kill buffs.
>>331776740
I think people don't understand just how much buffing her Ftilt means to her. HAving a decent button to poke with at mid range is enormous when you have strong projectiles and a tether grab to work with.
Still gonna main Bayonetta despite the nerfs. Just have to be wary of recovering correctly after using Dair offstage. I don't really understand the Witch Time nerf other than you guess less time now
>>331776848
I thought Dabuz dropped Olimar
>>331776848
Why is Charizard Trela but BJ isn't Tweek? Trela hasn't gone Charizard for ages and Tweek only dropped BJ a short while ago.
>Sheik is even lighter
SAKURAAAAAAAAAI!
>>331776597
It would let you stay closer to the ledge and snap to it in those cases it flies to the opposite fucking direction EVEN IF YOU DIDNT INPUT IT THAT WAY, so those cases you get pushed under the stage and can only fly back up you can still recover and not simple keep going away from the ledge.
Regaining control earlier after a whiffed air flare blitz would be nice as well
>>331777057
Just filled in with names from the first version when nobody came up with a rep, BJ got greyed out because Tweek dropping him him was mentioned several timesand because Bowser was greyed out in the original versions before the shellshock
I might put Charizard in the grey zone this time if nobody is suggested to replace Trela.
>>331776848
I think Mr. R is a better Sheik than Zero
I totally forgot smash was even a thing, I've been playing Pokken since it came out.
Can't read balance patches very well, but it looks like Kirby got a buff? What about Cloud and Samus?
>>331775005
>NOTHING FOR DEDEDE
>NOTHING FOR BOWSER JR.
>NOTHING FOR DR MARIO
>NOTHING FOR WARIO
IT'S
NOT
FAIR
>>331774427
i'm with you brother
>>331776095
Actually his punch does a better job than his shoulder bash
>>331777482
Charizard has not had a dedicated tournament going main since before last EVO. Even Bloodcross dropped him before EVO and only pulled him out when fucking around in friendlies.
>>331777587
Kirby got slight buffs to his Smash attacks
Cloud got the charge time for his limit increased by about half a second and some nerfs to his knockback on Finishing Touch and a couple of his Smashes
Samus got an absolute fuckton of very small buffs that add up to make her okayish now
>>331777608
>>331775187
>Wectoring will never return
FUCK YOU SAKURAI YOU SHIT WE NEVER EVEN GOT TO DO IT IN HD
I don't follow meta much. What do the top tier nerfs mean for muh boy? I heard he was already pretty good after his last set of buffs.
>>331777482
Oh and since Abadango dropped MK with the speed of a veteran bandwagonner I'll probably replace him with Tyrant.
>>331777548
Definetely the most loyal at least, but nothing can be done until Zero jumps into the Rosa/Bayo bandwagon
>>331777681
Into the shadow realm he goes then, maybe the buffs will bring forth someone to free him.
I might drop Pit for Cloud. I enjoy playing him a lot more, even though his recovery is 100x worse. Will probably keep Pit for matchups I have trouble with as Cloud.
>mfw back throw
Seeing shit like gannondorf players cry always make my day.
>>331776848
>Mew2king
>better Cloud than Komorikiri
Funny
>>331777983
Ikr, even m2k thinks Komorikiri is a better Cloud
>>331777983
>>331778210
Alrighty then
RIP Lizardon
>>331774842
>>331775459
I believe he said he was done patching too. But there's another team that does balance patches, and fortunately they're still on the job.
Linkfag here
Happy about the dash attack buff
Although I'm mostly excited about all the Samus buffs since she's my secondary
>>331776396
>Peach
She actually got a huge nerf. You can't hit with the first hit of up air anymore. That was a big combo move for her.
>nerfed meta knight u-air shenanigans
>no other buffs in return
>still no hitboxes changes
>>331779098
Your a hack if you aren't finishing your opponents and just juggling with Up air
>>331778996
I know that, but I was never able to do the infinites. Even if I were able, I'm fine with it, and I will still like her forever.
Maining Corrin and Ryu still
Can we all agree that Sheik is a pretty honest character now? That set two days ago between VoiD and Tyrant was fucking incredible
Mr. R and VoiD are seriously fun players to watch
>>331779098
Actually I take back that second bit, the f-air frame buff was good.
>>331779098
>nerfed meta knight u-air shenanigans
It does hurt, but it's still possible to do it - just a lot riskier since you have to be perfect AND use all your jumps to perform it.
>no other buffs in return
You are literally retarded for not reading the patch notes in the fucking OP.
>>>Fair Landing Lag: 20F -> 16F
It actually opens up several more consistent combos, and even more damage percentage ones.
>No hitbox changes
He already got several in numerous patches, each one increasing the hitbox range.
Metaknights an A-Tier character, and this patch did nothing to change that. In fact, it might even make him move up, since he's so good against Rosalina and not nearly as bad against Cloud and Bayo as he was against Sheik and ZSS.
>no puff buffs
You know who to thank.
>>331779348
I'm honestly enjoying Sheik play now, fucking air needles into bouncing fish kills look great.
>>331779670
Stupid Hbox and his pride.
>that fucking wall of Samus and ZSS changes
Jesus
Is Samus actually playable now, or is she still garbage?
>>331774245
Am I the only one who see's a futa mewtwo cock upper shaft in that image?
>>331776848
ally just said he's dropping smash until bayo is banned or something similarly salty, so I'd put anti up for mario instead.
one of his better matches here starts at about 10:00
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVxgOl3bPmw
>>331776573
>Second hit of Up Smash got nerved Slightly
>Usmash Second Hit Early/Late KBG: 95/90 -> 97/92
i dont think you can read
What makes Cloud the best? Were other top tiers nerfed that bad?
>>331779810
ally is such a weird dude
he's super nice in person but he's the most massive salty crybaby shitstirring faggot on social media
>>331779810
>>331779957
God dammit Ally, and right after you beat Mr. R's Sheik
>>331776848
Tweak plays Bowser Jr
And he's fucking good at it too.
I love watching someone play a character I never touch and show off how to do some fun shit.
>>331780253
Dropped him for witch tits.
>>331777768
You literally couldn't kill Wario though unless you killed him faster than he could Wector.
>>331780387
what? thought he played cloud
>>331780435
Wario could only Wector once he was out of hitstun and can't Wector out of spikes. Considering Wario's already great recovery with bike, it didn't really help him recover utside of being unpredictable.
>>331779806
She's not absolute garbage but she still isn't viable.
>>331780591
>Can't wector out of spikes
I know it's fair but imagine if he could reverse spike wector.
>>331780387
He dropped him for Cloud
>>331779950
Fast, safe aerials, and limit breaks
>>331774245
>maining
In a party game? No one.
I'm picking random 99% of the time like everyone should.
>>331780115
I thought Pink Fresh was the Bayo main?
>>331780859
he is as well, but salem has more notable wins despite mvd going full retard and doing the taunt to get-bodied combo vs PF a week or two ago
>>331780115
There's a guy who goes as Bill Trinen?
>>331774245
M I D T I E R
I
D
T
I
E
R
>>331778539
>unfortunately
shiek main detected
these patches have been amazing for the games longevity. although clearly they seem forget that Puff and DDD exist. not that i care about those two characters. but the high tiers are now closer to the middle and so are the low tiers, making the game overall a better game.
>marth
I mean, I think I'm fine. 1.1.4 was a good motivator. He doesn't have too many bad matchups anymore so I'll have fun with him and ROB as long as they don't fuck em up anymore.
>>331779950
The other top tier nerfs ranged from bad to fucking devastating.
Sheik:
>Needles lost a lot of range
Her neutral hurts bad because of this
>Lost her kill and combo options out of throws
This was her only decent kill option.
>Weight lowered
Dies 5-8% lower now
>Fair Z-Hitbox reduced
Not as safe on trades now.
Her kill options are pretty much gone now, and she loses neutral to characters like Pikachu, Cloud, and even Diddy when she didn't before. Sheik got FUCKED.
ZSS
>U-Air damage decreased and knockback increased
It doesn't combo as much now.
>Nair got worse in every way
Neutral is slightly worse, combo game got slightly worse.
>Throws got worse
Lost a few combos and one or two kill options.
>Grab lasts just as long but active frames are shorter
It's less safe now.
ZSS's grab game is pretty much gone now, and she's not a combo machine anymore. She lost a good kill option, but she at least has a few others. A bad patch for her, but she's still useable.
Bayonetta
>Witch-Time Reduced
This hurts her, but it's still a great move.
>Smashes reduced knockback
KO's require 1-3% more now.
Not much happened honestly, but Witch Time taking two hits isn't great. Not being able to spam it doesn't actually change much, but it lasts for a fair bit shorter now, so combos previously involving Witch Time got a lot shorter. Still really, really fucking good though.
Cloud
>Smashes/Cross-Slash/Finishing Touch (Air) Knockback reduced.
He requires 1% more to kill with his kill moves, and 5-10% more to kill with an aerial finishing touch. Literally nobody will notice.
>Charge Time increased.
Clouds are already pretty campy and win the neutral pretty easily so they wont notice having to spend an extra half a second charging against anyone except Pikachu.
He's pretty much unchanged. The only problem he may face is trying to charge up for Climhazzard while recovering - an extra half a second is a fair distance to fall. He'll make it back, but he's more predictable now.
>>331777587
you better not be a fucking chandelure main
>>331780830
Range, dont forged the stupid range he has
>>331777587
kirby got ANOTHER smash buff (plz Sakurai, aerial speed next time)
Cloud kills 2% later and takes longer to charge (no real difference)
Samus got too many buffs to list, but most importantly is her f-tilt isn't useless, her dash attack combos, and her fair combos. She's still only low-tier, maybe low mid at best
>>331781410
>1.1.4 Marth fair range buff
>1.1.5 Sheik fair range nerf
Jesus Christ, they took that one webm pretty seriously.
>>331779950
>blah blah blah cloud blah blah blah best
Sorry, I couldn't hear you over the sound of pic related being the best character in the game now.
>>331781770
what one webm? is it on youtube?
>>331781475
>Tfw your main has the most trouble with Sheik and ZSS
>But gets free as fuck gimps on Cloud
Haven't really fought enough Bayonettas to have an opinion the MU
>>331779950
He's not the best, he's just really good
>>331781842
webm related.
And this is after 1.1.4meaning BEFORE the Sheik range nerf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXO9D8OqgW8&spfreload=10
>Fire emblem crew got buffs up the ass throughout patches
>shulk: no changes
I haven't played smash 4 in a few months, like around when roy came out.
Is C Falcon still any good?
I also played fox, he was a lot of fun even though he wasn't a top tier character.
>>331781814
>no kill confirms
>struggles with range
Cloud beats Pikachu any day.
And this is #1 in the current patch
>>331782056
who the fuck's your main that gets free gimps on cloud?
>>331781096
No. The actual Bill Trinen. No joke.
>>331782559
Fox is a better character than c falcon, arguably a top 10 now
C falcon is never viable in any game, when will CF mains learn?
>>331782579
Maybe Pit?
>>331782570
>no kill confirms
U-Throw to Thunder is a 50/50, other than that Pikachu is mainly meant to gimp people - and he's the best fucking gimper in the game.
>Pikachu struggles with range when he has quick attack
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Pikachu also has a favourable matchup against Rosa, Bayo, and Cloud - the other 3 highest top tiers.
>>331782701
In what way is Captain Falcon not a viable character.
>>331781814
Get outta here ESAM.
Pikachu still can't beat Cloud, Bayo, ZSS or Rosa.
>>331782693
I don't believe you
>>331782704
Cloud fucks Pit. Hard. Without any lube.
Pit gets gimps if Cloud ever goes offstage, but there's no reason a Cloud should even be offstage against a Pit - it's not like Pit could actually get him off.
The only ones I can think of that get free cloud gimps are Pikachu, Metaknight, and Villager.
>>331782570
>struggles with range
What are Spark and Quick Attack?
Pikachu literally has the easiest time gimping Cloud. You're just bad.
>>331782923
Pikachu literally has a good matchup against all of those.
Fuck, he's had a good matchup against ZSS and Rosa since day one.
>>331782579
Charizard
Ftilt angled down outranges upB and with it's 3 active frames it's easy to hit his predictable up B patterns with it. Flamethrower fucks his recovery from a safe distance and can force him into a position where hitting the snap with Ftilt is even easier.
>>331782779
>U-Throw to Thunder is a 50/50
NO. This only works if your opponent is mentally retarded AND has played less than 10 pikachus
EVERYBODY knows this combo, everybody knows what does a Uthrow mean at 70 ~95%, and everybody knows this shit is as easy to avoid as holding the joystick to the left. Which means you will never fucking get a kill with that unless the opponent isnt holding the controller
>>331783134
>Charizard
I knew he got nice buffs, but I had no idea it was that nice.
>>331782923
>can't beat Cloud
press b
>can't beat Bayo
try shielding and grabbing
>ZSS
literally dominates her in pretty much every aspect
>Rosa
only character you could even make your claim for
>>331782848
Camped easily
Poor approach options
Very easily recovery to intercept
Combo food
>>331783254
>>331783027
I've never seen ESAM beat those characters in tournament
>>331783254
I love you, ESAM.
>>331779950
Biggest all around disjoints, Nair and Bair come out fast, Uair and Dair are also fast and last very long, and Fair is very strong (and safe on shield if it's spaced right). Add that to good tilts, smash attacks, and Limits and you have a very good character.
He probably still loses to Pikachu, but he's hardly as bad a matchup as Sheik used to be.
>>331783238
Did you even read the explanation? Charizard fucks and has fucked Cloud's recovery since Cloud launched. Now he does it while holding his own in neutral with safe on block massive disjoints.
>>331782925
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2kb3sPRAdE
Also plays Yoshi and used to main Rosalina before everyone jumped on the bandwagon (literally before the game released)
>>331783216
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZEiojYuff4
You read it, it's a kill confirm.
Really fucking easy.
>>331783297
>camped easily
play on platforms
>poor approach options
literally has the best grab in the game
>very easy recovery to intercept
there is truth to this but nowhere near as bad you make it seem
>combo food
learn how to DI
>>331775187
>Nothing for Jigglypuff
>Ever
Can someone explain what exactly has been done to the first hit of Samus' f-air? What is the "angle" and is changing that value from 295 to 60 a drastic change in how it works and connects?
>>331783652
>Something for Dedede
>It's nerfs
>>331783681
Did you not learn about angles? This is some basic math anon
>>331783345
>>331783346
Every top Cloud and Bayo already say that a Pikachu matchup isn't in their favour.
Pikachu has literally had an advantage against ZSS since day one, since half of her moves can't hit him while he's crouching or even just dashing.
The entire Rosa community have already agreed that Pikachu is a slightly disadvantaged matchup for Rosalina. Not as bad as Sheik or Metaknight were previously, but still not good.
Pikachu has three bad matchups.
>Mario
Hard Counter Pick.
>Ness
Counter Pick.
>G&W
Soft Counter Pick.
Both ZeRo and, oddly enough, Mr. R have also said this (before the patch of course, but nothing bad happened to Pika during the patch)
>>331783542
>best grab in the game
>lol just DI
>>331783681
Literally the angle in degrees. Initially the first hitbox was at 295 degrees, so a little bit behind her head. Now it is at 60 degrees, so it's a little bit in front of her head. It connects better because it comes out in front earlier.
Characters with multiple jumps can go fuck themselves.
And Yoshi.
>>331783901
Nice arguments there, Wi-Fi Warrior.
Forever mid tier.
>>331783919
>Jigglypuff
>hating on worse character in the game
>Yoshi
>Loses 90% of his recovery once he uses his jump
>becomes more gimpable than little mac
git gud
>>331774245
>DDD wasn't changed because he's already perfect
>>331783919
>Kirbies who just air dodges jump dance around you and wait for you to do something and use an aerial and if you don't they just go for grab
LEMME JUST HIT YOU, YOU FUCKING PINK COTTON BALL
>flick stick to do a smash
>jab instead
FUCK YOU LEARN TO CODE HACKURAI
>>331780657
Look at this punk ass bitch who can't win with samus.
>>331784234
I still prefer that over jiggs that just do Fair fakeouts the whole fucking game
>>331784363
you should be using c-stick for tilts anyway.
>>331783542
You can still be camped on platforms
Bowser has the best grab in the game
You can't use di as an excuse, any character can utilize di, it won't get you out of every situation
>>331784031
I don't need arguments for retarded claims, falcon MAY have the best dash grab in the game but that doesn't mean much when he doesn't get shit from it, maybe a couple of uairs at low % but aside from that no more. Also you can't DI from guaranteed combos, which most of the top tiers (and Falcon's harder mu's) have on heavy to medium weight characters.
The best grab might be ZSS, btw
>>331784234
Kirby has the second worst aerial momentum and aerial speed in the game. He is one of the easiest characters to catch in the air.
Stop hating on him when you're just fucking awful.
>>331784123
>aerial spam
>dodge every attack you throw out and can just jump away from danger
Yeah, no.
Maining villager now. I wish shulk got some tweaks.
>>331784586
>Best Grab is ZSS
>Normal/Dash/Pivot Grab Last Active Frame: 29F -> 25F
Not any more she doesn't.
Worst grab easily goes to Pac-Man though.
>>331784693
he's a floaty, he doesn't get combo'd that well
kirby has problems but his air movement isn't one
>>331780253
>>331780387
>Finally find someone who mains Bowser Jr.
>Dropped him months ago
>For fucking Cloud
The struggle continues
>>331784586
Falcon is trash and anyone who says he is good is a FG Monster.
In live play with platforms and no input delay he loses quite a lot.
>>331785047
I believe there's another guy who mains the character, either at VGBootcamp or MVG League. He doesn't seem to be anything special considering how obscure he is though.He also uses Morton, so yeah...
>>331783345
esam the maximum choker? yeah no surprise
>>331785267i use morton
>>331785441
>>331785047
I forgot bjr was in the game desu
>>331778367
Didn't Anti pick up charizard a little while ago?
>>331784802
>Jigglypuff
She is literally the worst character in the game. She has no good matchup against anybody. None of her aerials actually beat out all of anyone else's, and her pound is readable as fuck. Every single character in the game has both a ground and an aerial move that beats out her Fair.
http://smashboards.com/threads/first-official-4br-smash-for-wii-u-tier-list.429817/
Since then, everyone around her has only gotten better. And she's pretty much ALWAYS at the bottom of the japanese tier list too.
>Yoshi
>Get Super Armor, lose Double Jump
Perfectly fair trade off.
If you're honestly complaining about either of these two, you're a fucking scrub.
>>331779913
>damage got less
>not nerfed
You wut
>>331775769
It hurts, pal. I know
>>331784938
shit forgot about that
Well at least Pac has set ups for his shitty grab
>>331776039
>He
>>331784586
Falcon can combo into many moves out of dthrow around 60-100 percent, as well as into 2-3 uairs at lower percents.
The only combos he cannot DI out of are combos which no character can DI out of. You just need to get better at DI.
ZSS does not have anywhere near the best grab.
I'm not claiming that he's top tier but he is certainly not trash.
>>331785267
>>331785441
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39kUdW-8rks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=211UNeBD50c
>>331785913
>Pac-Man's USmash Damage reduced
The fuck are you talking about?
http://smashboards.com/threads/1-1-5-patch-notes.433162/
>Bair KBG: 98 -> 100
>Fsmash First Hit/Second Hit KBG: 97/100 -> 99/102
>Usmash Second Hit Early/Late KBG: 95/90 -> 97/92
>Dsmash Early/Late KBG: 84/90 -> 86/92
If you're doing your own testing, make sure you're accounting for stale moves and half percents, because absolutely NO ONE is reporting any sort of nerf at all for Pac-Man.
>>331783429
>Bill had the percent lead the entire game
>>331785913
The damage was not nerfed. The Knockback Growth was buffed.
>>331785913
>pac man
>damage nerfed
>1.1.5 patch
>year 1986+30
>lying on the internet
what the fuck anon
>falco
>no changes
Tourney when
>>331787346
tourney in 10 minutes in the general
>>331781245
He said fortunately
>>331787427
>/vg/
no thanks my man
>>331774245
>Bowser Jr.
>no changes
I can count the number of changes Bowser Jr. has gotten in the course of Smash 4's lifetime on one hand.
I think all those wins I get in For Glory with him makes Sakurai think that the character is fine or some shit.
>>331787542
>not liking /vg/
fair enough
well then, tourneys on /v/ usually only on weekends
>>331787607
Yeah but sometimes when there's a decent sized smash thread someone will make a tourney
>>331778539
he never said he was done patching
literally all they said was that (new) character development was done
>>331787580
>The only people who play zard on 4 glory are single digit aged kids who only know how to side B
Just gonna keep those buffs coming.
>>331787580
I think a better combo game out of mecha koopa Toon Link style would be pretty good, plus a charge and hold neutral B (same for Zelda's Phantom)
>>331780115
Why isn't G&W GimR and Corrin MVD?
>>331779348
She was always the most honest top tier.
Too bad Bayo is gonna ruin the game
>>331787580
http://www.ssbwiki.com/Bowser_Jr._(SSB4)#Update_history
Eh, it's not the BEST, but he's gotten sizeable buffs. Certainly better than someone like D3 getting nerfed, and BJ's a better character to begin with anyways.
>>331787854
>GimR
>Good
And at the time there wasn't a clear leading player for Corrin unlike with Bayo. Dunno about now, who gets the best results?
>>331787580
>tfw so balanced that you only ever got one or two very minor changes and are fine with it
>>331785047
This is what happens when your game is unbalanced
>>331787938
>Bayo's gonna ruin the game
Nah. She's great, but she has too many bad matchups to dominate the game, especially compared to Rosalina, Cloud, and Pikachu.
Pikachu, Cloud, Sonic, Diddy, and Metaknight all have an advantage and will keep her in check. Even Kirby goes 50-50 with her.
>tfw you were top-tier once
>one tool gets nerfed slightly
>everything falls apart
>>331787796
Wouldn't that make their Bs pretty broken? Fully charged Cannon is fast and hits like a truck. And if Zelda had a B Charge she would have a pretty good edgeguard game.
Not saying they can't have this since they need everything that they can get.
>>331788309
He's not that bad. Still completely useable.
He's right up there with Falcon and Yoshi, smack dab between the High Tiers and Mid Tiers.
>>331788309
still high tier
luigi has nothing to whine about
>>331780115
>No tweek as bowser jr
>>331788431
>Fully charged Cannon is fast and hits like a truck
And it takes a whole year to charge it, so if you ever actually get hit with it you should just stop playing.
Seriously, it's like getting hit with Jigglypuff's Rollout, or Ganon's U-Tilt.
What changes need to happen to Palutena to make her not a shit?
>>331788286
Since Sheik is dead how would Bayo perform in the classic theoretical 64 Pikachu vs Melee Fox vs Brawl Meta Knight vs Sm4sh Bayo?
>>331788309
>weegee main
>crying over being sent from top of high-tier to bottom of high-tier
You are the quintessential Luigi main.
Never change anon.
You be you.
>>331787938
>Bayo is gonna ruin the game
You and the fucking babies that want to ban her, have no idea how to fight her. Her frame data is not the best.
Hell, your constant whining got WT nerfed so badly that she can't do anything if she misses the first one.
Bayo has bad MUs it's just that no knows how to fight her completely yet.
>>331775005
>Implying DDD isn't already perfect and an S tier character
>>331788128
Feels gud.
Only actual nerf was stopping allied projectiles from getting that x2 multiplier in doubles, but that was across the board and doesn't kill the usefullness of holding on your teammates projectiles at all.
>>331785735
>Ness
>Anything other than S-tier
people are afraid of technical characters lol
>>331788918
upvoted
>>331788309
>upset at a slight nerf
>Luigi still the best he's ever been
Get out of here nigga. I've been maining Green Mario since 64 and I'm ecstatic at how good he is in this game. Going from top tier to high tier doesn't ruin him.
>>331788567
I know that I used to main Jr. I even reflected a fully charged ball as Ness and it was a OHKO. I'm saying that if Jr.'s B functioned like Samus' B it'd be a whole lot better.
I u
>>331788940
>Ness
>technical
what, his buttons are dumb af, only hard thing about him is maybe recovery
>>331788128
sour fair/bairs should have as much impact as meggs pellets
>>331788940
Ness gets destroyed by anyone faster than him or has better hitboxes.
>>331788940
>Ness
>Good
His mobility, range, and recovery fuck him over.
>>331788697
Awful?
Rosa, Pika, and Cloud are all higher than her.
Rosa's bad matchups include Cloud, Pikachu, Metaknight, and ZSS.
Pika's bad matchups include Mario, G&W, and Ness.
Cloud's bad matchups include Pikachu, Sonic, Mewtwo (strangely enough) and possibly Charizard (now that he has an aerial short hop game).
Bayo's good, definitely top 5 (Sonic or Ryu is the other one), but she's not fairing better than the other three, and certainly far worse than the top character in the other games.
>>331789208
Ness requires the most skill to master his best setups. Only babbies rely on fairs and PK fire
>>331789163
Oh I get it now, my apologies.
That said, you'd basically be giving BJ Samus's B without the Hitstun. This is definitely not broken, and I'd personally like it if they did.
>>331789503
>ness requires most skill
>not pre-nerf sheik
>not pikachu
>not neo-metaknight
>not the god king Ryu
get out
>>331774245
They took Sheik nerfs way too far.
Also Sakurai is a fucking piece of shit for not nerfing Pikachu.
Also, Fuck Rosalina and Luma in general
If I was in charge of patching shit I'd make this game actually good.
![maxresdefault[3].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/Fnj6IBB.jpg "maxresdefault[3].jpg")
SHULK
BUFFS
NEVER
>>331788940
Ness literally has an advantage against Pikachu out of all the A and S-Tiers. That's it. Everyone else wrecks his shit. He's also nearly as gimpable as Little Mac.
Sorry, but Mr. Flowchart isn't anywhere close to the best.
Am I the only one here who dropped Corrin after this patch?Because I feel like an idiot.
>>331789324
>Pikachu losing to G&W
Sorry for being skeptical but you're going to have to explain this one to me
>>331774981
Most charizards I meet just jump in place hoping to land a bair.
Le bait meta meme
>>331789681
No, you'd just make the game Sheik vs. Sheik only, Town & City, 2 stocks only.
Wallow in your salt sheik main.Seriously though, this is the most balanced a Smash game has ever been, with the top 5 characters all having at LEAST 3 bad matchups each. Sheik was a fucking cancer on the game.
>>331789620
Sheik requires no skill. Just spam fairs and bouncing fish and she plays herself for you
Pikachu is a complete lightweight and requires no skill since you just need to fish for grabs. Basically just a shitty Luigi before being nerfed.
Metaknight is just a trap
Ryu is nothing more than a variable character. He'll only be good if people want to spend the time putting in his inputs which are easily destroyed by anyone with priority moves.
Nice try though. Ness still has the best skill ceiling.
>Kirby buffs
I don't play the game anymore, but my boy getting buffed is always good news.
>>331789986
>Sheik fairs and bouncing fish
You've literally never seen ZeRo, Mr. R, or Void play a single tournament match.
>Pikachu's game is all grabs
And you've literally never seen a single Pikachu match either. QAC is the most technical shit in the game.
>Metaknight's a trap
You mean he requires pixel and frame perfect input? Because he requires pixel and frame perfect input.
>Ryu destroyed by priority moves
I fell for the bait. Fuck.
>>331788552
>He doesn't know
>>331789902
G&W does matchup well against pikachu, I wouldn't say he's great, but it's one of G&W's better matchups.
Let me get this straight. So Samus isn't actually shit anymore?
>>331790568
Spamus or ZeroSkillSpamus?
>>331789962
I don't even main Sheik you faggot.
Any kind of casual player who doesn't understand the advanced meta behind the character has absolutely ZERO good kill options. Sheik gets KO'ed super easily now and sure she's fast but can get beaten out or trade with MUCH stronger moves all the time.
Also I'm not the one to really complain about damage nerfs but this is getting ridiculous. 2 hits of forward smash do like 13 damage. That's fucking stupid. Her max damage aerial on clean hit is like backair for like 8 damage. Forward air does like 3 or something. It's fucking pitiful.
Meanwhile Pikachu can still be a faggot and go offstage thunderspam/get falco daired twice and still come back.
I would literally make two simple changes to pikachu and he'd be fine.
>down b spikes pikachu offstage. If he's in the air he'll go flying down but that's it.
>up b has more landing lag
I wouldn't mind buffing Pikachu's other shit if they implemented those two changes.
As for Rosalina....
Patch 1.1.6
Character removed
I promise you the game will be better for it
>>331790568
she is already mid tier, I'm sure as meta develops she will end up being high tier so long as she doesn't get nerfed.
>>331790505
How
Why does he do well against pikachu
I genuinely don't see how he has any advantage over him
>>331789986
As a ness main I have to disagree, I fully respect good ryus. He may be easier with actually experience of him in street fighter but he is pretty honest. Still ness doesn't seem as hated as before, cloud seems to be the new flowchart character. Personally I worry about ness droping down as time passes, fortunately he hasn't received any insane nerfs and is never really touched in patches.
>Zero not going to Pound
Who ya got /v/?
>>331790635
>remove rosalina
>remove a character with literally 4 bad matchups and several even ones
>not complain about sheik having literally no bad matchups and only an even one against one character on one stage
Come on now, what the fuck man, at least try when you're trolling.
>>331790931
Nairo will win if he doesn't choke, if he does Mr.R will win
>>331790785
pikachu has great offstage game and probably the best recovery. G&W has many gimp options, probably one of the best gimp games in smash. Characters that play hit and run games against G&W are often punished.
>>331790416
>QAC is the most technical Shit in the game
Not him but I can't agree with this. It's a relative safe approach and combo opener(until the opponent learns to punish it of course). Although feel free to prove me wrong, point me to some tournament play that show how technical it is
>>331791262
I suppose I can see that. Still, I'd assume that G&W would get a train ran over him in neutral.
>>331790968
>Rosalina
>bad matchups
I have to disagree. She's stupidly good and any "bad" matchups are a result of only bad players gravitating towards her.
I'm not saying Sheik shouldn't have been nerfed. I'm saying it's been taken too far. If sheik was released in her current state when the game first came out, she would be bottom tier. It's only because of such an advanced meta has been developed around the character that you fags think that this is ok and makes her "balanced".
Fox(my sorta main) is probably better than sheik in every conceivable way now. When I first played smash 4 I could tell sheik was wholly superior as a rushdown fast character and now the tables have turned a lot.
>Pikachu
>Sonic
>Fox
They all crush her at her own game now. Fair strings might still be a thing but they'll never lead to a kill.
>>331790568
Better kill options and better follow ups thanks to slightly better speed air.
I don't think she will climb much in the tier lists but I enjoy her a lot more now.
>>331790416
all Zero does is spam fairs
Mr R at least does actual tech with her
>>331791497
in neutral it's a very even matchup IMHO but offstage where many pikas like to go he can dish out the pain. He's also one of the strongest counters to Ness.
>>331775005
>tfw no changes
>tfw never had any changes
Its been depressing watching him slide down the tiers, as others have been buffed.
>>331776904
How would you tell someone to deal with the gyro on the ledge? That always fucks me up with Falco or Mewtwo.
Why are these threads always full of DDD tears?
>>331789905
Then you're a fucking scrub because even with the landing lag reductions, a shielded bair equals to a free grab. Hell, his landing options are all shit since anyone can just run under him disregarding if he tries to fake a direction or not, and shield whatever he may or not throw and get a grab for free
>>331791765
Wouldn't spamming fairs make it a stale move and thus combo really well even at high percents, so I could see why he spam it
Sheik tourney play is incredibly boring though, I don't even bother watching. Only one who is more boring is Rosalina
>>331791968
We're big guys with big tear glands.
>>331789902
>>331790785
Both the Game and Watch and Pikachu boards on Smashboards have said it's a match that's slightly in G&W's favour, and Esam has said it's a slightly disadvantaged matchup for Pikachu.
Basically
>Pika can't T-Jolt
Pika's normal method of approach, using T-Jolt to force a shield, jump, or roll, is right the fuck out of the question. It hurts his neutral a bit.
>Pika can't Thunder
Not unless he wants to instantly lose a stock, anyways.
>No Thunder means no U-Throw to Thunder Kill
It's a 50/50, but it's a risk Pikachu can't take anymore because if he gets it wrong, G&W now has a full kill bucket. Now Pikachu lost a kill option (he only has two)
>Pikachu lacks kill options, and focuses on gimps to kill.
This is actually pretty big. G&W's recovery is good, but the problem is that he's probably the second or third worst character in the game to try and gimp. U-Air pushes Pikachu away and can fuck with QA, he can act out of his Up-B, and if Pikachu does get close enough to gimp G&W's Up-B sends him the fuck away. Can't gimp G&W with T-Jolt either, since Bucket Stalling is a thing (at least for the first use).
>G&W's aerials outrange Pika's
Especially Bair. It just fucking eats Pikachu's for breakfast. But mainly, G&W beats out Pikachu in the air.
>G&W's Smashes are fucking strong, and USmash has invincibility
Pikachu's light, just like G&W, but G&W's Smashes will fucking KILL at low percents (~80-90, 70 with rage), while Pikachu needs G&W ~112 to kill with U-Smash.
>G&W's Tilts are great
Windbox, decent hitbox, and quick startup on D-Tilt, along with disjoints on F-Tilt and both having good knockback mean that Pikachu best be really fucking careful with Quick Attacks.
Pikachu basically loses the neutral, can't force an approach, loses in the air, and has a lot of trouble killing.
It's not AS bad as I'm making it sound, but it's not good for Pikachu.
>>331792046
>mentioning stupid shit I see in FG
>retards automatically assume I'm getting beat by it and write a huge ass post about it
Lmao
>>331792271
>Pikachu can't thunder jolt
This should be a thing against all characters.
>>331792367
>>331792271
Oh wait I'm thinking of pikachu's up-b not his neutral b.
Whatevs.
Will Ness stay top tier?
Pros: good approach options, fantastic kill options, never worry about nerfs
As a ness main I feel his current placing in
Cons: mediocre recovery, kinda slow, struggles with characters who out range him
