Class pruning will kill this game. Mark my words.
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Class pruning will kill this game. Mark my words.
Yea, i think most people realised this in wod. They gutted to much and left nothing recognisable for most classes. Just watered down smelly shit paste.
>>331663073
If you think WoD gutted classes, you ain't seen nothing yet. Legion took so much away from some classes, it's insane.
how did you guys not get sick of wow in cata?
>>331662551
I thought the only people still playing WoW were the addicts.
>>331663696
Exactly.
>>331663483
Cata was actually good up to 4.2
opening tier was godly
Thinking of playing again. Any easygoing /v/ guilds?
>>331664316
>/v/ guilds
DON'T
>>331664316
j u s t
>>331663696
Pretty much yeah. Coming up on a year of no content in June I think it is. And a limited content patch at that. If you don't raid there's really no reason people should be subbed.
>>331663073
>>331663191
>had talent trees that made you choose which tree to invest points in to get to what you want while locking out others
>removes it because "lels everybody chose the same thing"
>now 2 expacs later they have to cut and remove and butcher because previously mentioned talent tree system isn't there to limit player choice
>Blizzard 2016
>>331665413
Even if you do raid, by this point there is no point in being subbed. At this point Blizzard has fucked it up beyond repair. We have content droughts because they made everything either not matter. Or too easy.
>class pruning
>classes have only ever been added to the game, never removed
good fucking job you inbred degenerate retards
>>331665810
Class ability pruning maybe?
>>331662551
How do you kill a game that isn't fun to begin with ?
>>331664454
>>331665134
But I've got 3 characters with starting gear that sells for 25,000 gold each, and I want to play with someone.
>will kill
It's already dead. They might as well just make it F2P and put in a full cash shop. It wouldn't make a difference. The only people still playing are the exact type of idiots who would lap that shit up anyway
>>331666073
Feel free to play the game, just don't join a /v/ guild. You'll thank me once someone decides to post screencaps.
>>331665969
nigger vanilla to wotlk is literally the greatest gaming experience of ALL TIME
ALL TIME
It was so good I actually pity anyone who didn't experience it.
>>331666137
What fucks me up the most are the people who have played the game since vanilla and say that this is the best the game has ever been. I honestly have no idea if we played the same game.
>>331666409
>killing the same thing 50 times with automated combat for random quests is the greatest gaming experience of all time
OK
>>331663191
I haven't paid attention, what have they done now?
>>331662551
lack of content will
>>331666418
MoP was the best the game has ever been and WoD is the best the raiding has ever been. Unfortunately everything besides the first leveling experience and the raids sucks ass in WoD.
>>331666859
I seems to remember a huge amount of time doing dailies ad nauseum in MoP. It was better than Cata, is better than WoD. But better than the rest?
C'mon now.
The problem is the class pruning, the problem is this mentality that raid are the only thing that matter.
I didn't play between WotlK and WoD so I don't where it happened but the problem is that there is nothing challenging in pve for a casual like me. Heroics are piss easy, lfr raids can be finished with simple auto attacks, and normal raids are too easy as well.
I shouldn't have cleared normal HFC, I should be clearing heroics and having fun doing that. Now the only challenge are heroic and mythic raids, something I have no interest in doing because as a casual I will not put hours into a raid and I will not look for a guild.
But what else can I do? professions are pointless thanks to the garrison, reputation grind is basically mindless killing of mobs for hours, there are no mounts to look for except for 6 drops that are guaranteed. I solo old content or I do nothing.
That's the problem, for all the talks about WoW being casualized I feel like casuals are the ones who got the short end of the stick.
>>331667000
Yes, WotLK was rep grinding and Vanilla/TBC was boring attunement grinding. MoP had a beautiful world, the best PvP, the second best raids (behind WoD), the best class and had plenty to do out in the world as well as a world PvP encouraging area.
>>331667070
>The problem is not the class pruning
>>331667070
>I'm a casual
>I only do the things made for casuals
>why is nothing challenging
You join a casual progression guild and then casually do the non-casual things at a casual pace.
>>331667149
Rotations don't matter, once you've spent more than 20 minutes with your classes kit you shouldn't have difficulty with it, the only time this has not been true is Enhancement/Feral in WotLK and even then 99% of the difficulty was circumvented with an add-on.
>during MoP blizzard claimed that they've learned their lesson with content drought
>Literally the same thing with legion
>blizzard now claims that their game is cyclical and they're ok with that.
W E W
E
W
Them not giving a shit and spending more effort on a card game already killed the game.
It's not so much the pruning per se, it's the simplification of everything. They have simplified literally every aspect of this game to the point of it being mind-numbing boring.
I've done Durotar Pre-Cataclysm probably a few hundred times but I could do it again without a problem. Why? Every time I do it, it feels like an actual adventure and challenge.
You had to save up silver to buy abilities, if you pulled more than one of those God damn Witch Doctors, you were dead (even one was a decent challenge at Level 5-6).
Let's not forget the fucking Defias Pillagers. My God those things.
They already have killed it and now they're just committing gross abuse of a corpse. The simplification to cater to the minority whining on the forum killed it. Wotlk had a perfect mix of casual and non-casual content. The numbers showed it and I felt like I had so much to do back then.
>>331663994
Wasn't 4.1 where the patch notes were basically "We have nerfed (Literally every boss here) for balancing issues"
I unsubbed that day, resubbed when the DW raid was released did the entire raid on LFR day 1 and quit for good. Fuck doing the same raid I just did over and over for a year until i can get the gear to do the actually challenging stuff, by which time the entire instance is stagnant as nothing much changes except 'Ability now does 2x damage'.
/rant
>>331667418
They've been claiming since WOTLK they want to fix the content droughts, never managed to do it.
I feel like they're so bad at resource management. They spend too much time on areas and dungeons that people hardly spend any time in
>>331667351
In WotlK I could do things made for casuals and be challenged, now I can't.
>>331667487
>they've simplified everything
Except the PvE and PvP and the amount of systems and the interaction with old content.
>>331663696
That's seriously all it is. All the casuals moved to XIV.
The only people still playing WoW are people afraid to do anything else.
I don't mean to shit up the thread but as an 8 years clean WoW addict, how is FFXIV?
Equally as shit? Or better?
I cannot level another character. It's so fucking mundane and boring now. Everything dies in two hits. You accept a quest, open up your map, go to the marked area, kill a few mobs and come back. Meanwhile, BnS and Vanilla leveling still remains far superior to this new age simplistic leveling garbage.
>>331667747
I wish I knew. I quit in the first few hours. The cinematics, NPCs and role playing weaboos everywhere were incredibly cringe. It's great if you're into that kinda thing... I think. Despite the incredibly slow combat.
>>331667747
Better in just about every way.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdV_bzJgRxE
Multiple raid difficulties ruined the game for me.
Call it special snowflake syndrome all you want, but it felt special the first time you stepped into AQ, or MH/BT. You felt like you'd worked to get there, and got to experience this awesome new place and bosses.
Now I just ding, do a few 5 mans, and run through it in LFR in a few hours. I don't want to spend months in the same fucking dungeon on 3 more difficulties, fuck that
At least they spend time making the player models a hell of a lot better looking.
>hur why aren't they hyper-realistic with a billion polygons and photorealistic textures like my FFXIV and Age of Conan
1) You can't do that with the Warcraft III engine and 2) realism does not fit Warcraft at all.
>>331668025
What's the point of better models? wasted resources and time.
>>331667747
>>331667879
>>331667893
FFXIV is shit. We already went over this after Heavensward launched. It is now irrelevant.
Black Desert Online is the hot shit now. It's a really good game and a lot of serious players are flocking to it.
>>331667747
it's the same shit.
combat isn't nearly as fluid but class abilities are more varied.
roleplayers everywhere on big servers due to Squeenix not making a separation between normal and RP servers.
>>331668025
They Fucked up the hair styles and facial expressions, the human males look like shrek when he was temporarily human.
>>331668025
Literally what's the point except for waifufags and machina shitters?
My character is fully armoured and i'm focusing on the boss. Should have spent the time on other stuff
>>331667942
They did that to get people to stop complaining about raid difficulty.
All it ended up doing was making people mad that they couldn't get the cool looking armor unless they put 20+ hours a week into the game or waited until the level capped increased so they could solo it.
>>331668114
>It is now irrelevant.
Is that why there's so many threads that hit the bump limit of people discussing the game?
>Black Desert Online is the hot shit now. It's a really good game and a lot of serious players are flocking to it.
Never mind, you're a retard.
>>331667942
This is why I liked the Wotlk model. Casuals could slowly progress through normal raids. Then, you had hard mode. Being with a guild to be the first on the server during then to complete hard modes felt rewarding and people actually looked up to it.
No one gives a shit about firsts anymore or who's doing what in PvE. All most of the players care about is quicker LFR queues.
I stopped playing retail a year ago.
Been playing a character on Nostalrius to lvl 60 a few weeks ago.
I have to admit in all honesty and retrospective. They did improve the game drastically in so many aspects over the years - but also sadly completely destroyed other aspects.
Like for example the content stuff where people complain about 'hurr durr they recycle the same shitty content on three difficulty levels'. Introducing the casual - heroic - mythic thing was probably one of the best things ever.
Just think about it. Vanilla Naxxramas. Fight against Kel Thuzad or 4H or anything beyound Maexxna - what percentage of WoW players at that time saw, hell even beat this content? 0.1? 0.001? 0.0000001?
What is the point in pouring massive resources into generating content like literally nobody of your playerbase gets to see?
>>331667070
>>331667586
You were simply a worse player in Wotlk. Nothing was difficult there either. Raids at the highest level were easier and normal still took an investment you are unwilling to put into the game.
>>331668232
>Is that why there's so many threads that hit the bump limit of people discussing the game?
The game is so dead the devs never had the courage to show actual sub numbers. No one cares about your shitty weebmoe game, faggot.
>Never mind, you're a retard.
This is coming from someone who plays a WoW clone? LOL
>>331667747
It really isn't good. Game was made with having to include the consoles in mind, and it shows.
>>331668216
because pre-wod every wow thread had like 30 shitheads posting that one image comparing a wow and age of conan model
>>331668249
Aye, I didn't mind the WOTLK model in fairness. Plus the separation of 10 and 25 as different difficulty was quite cool, 10 was pretty much the more laidback casual event, then shit got real during 25 man
>>331667487
Most of that is true but at the same time you need to take into consideration that the PvE at high end has gotten a lot more mechanics without the rng that the old vanillia and some of the DESU raids had.
Even the new Zone Ashran is horrible. Not anything like Timeless isle and Thundre Isle that did PvP pretty good. Especially
Timeless with its Bloody coin that could kill their own faction.
The problem with WoW at the moment is that the content doesn't exist after raiding and this is comming from somebody that have just started with HC raiding in HFC with a casual guild that does raiding 3-4 times a week with around 3 hours per raid.
I can't really do anything more than just go for Mythic dungeon for the trinket and Garrison missions for the gold.
>>331668308
I've been on Nos too and a lot of aspects for QoL were drastically improved but when I make a new character and I see "Rank 2 ability - 5 silver", it makes me so happy.
It gives me something to work for while leveling and questing actually takes effort.
>Make a level 1 on Nostalrius. You're surrounded by other level 1s and it feel like you're starting all over again
>Make a level 1 on Retail. You're surrounded by BoA players in Level 1 mounts with a billion gold and no one needs your help or wants to interact with you
>>331667942
They had it perfect in WOTLK, don't know why they changed it from that. I say this as a Burning Crusade faggot.I'm still mad they got rid of cool attunement quests, but they were actual barriers for a lot of people
>>331668308
>What is the point in pouring massive resources into generating content like literally nobody of your playerbase gets to see?
Game longevity. In fairness Naxx came out way too close to TBC, but having something to aim for is a good thing for players.
My guild spent months trying to get to BT, and it was fucking awesome when we finally did it, we'd worked together and reached our goal.
Now the goal is "Kill the boss you've beaten on 3 modes, this time he has another mechanic and harder dmg"
>>331668182
Only one Human male face looks like that, the rest look quite different.
>>331668216
Not everyone likes the shitty tier armors that turn you into shapeless lumps of metal and cloth.
>>331668106
>updating a ten-yeal-old game is pointless, only cater to MY demands or you're a horrible company
>>331668517
Because they collectively decided that they wanted the Call of Duty customers.
>>331662551
I think the absolute contrary will happen, classes will be reduced to their core basics which will make them easier to balance and add further, more complex functionality.
I tried demonology Warlock and it is much better than the fucking mess it used to be, it really feels like a class that is meant to having the control of demons as the main means of damaging the enemy.
The demon hunter class feels fucking sweet too.
I have a lot of hopes for Legion, but only time will tell.
I'm guessing Blizzard is operating on a shoe string budget and all their resources are put into other areas.
>>331668367
>Black Desert is F2P everywhere except the west
Gee, I wonder why that is.
>>331667487
>Play Vanilla when current
>Everything is difficult because I'm shit at mmos and have no idea what works and what does not
>Play Vanilla today
>Entire game is joke, reach 60 and raid no problem
It's certainly much, much easier now, but Vanilla-esque mobbing won't revive the game.
wow stop reporting subs at 4M
that was like 5months ago and they lost millions per month
They are most likely down to 1-3m subs now almost every realm is low pop and remember a realm now is 3-5 merged realms.
So in essence wow is already dead.
Keep in mind this includes the chinese playerbase. If we look at the actual civilized players from US/EU its probably under a million subs.
>>331668491
That is, in my opinion one of the biggest things they completely destroyed. The social aspect.
The game is now basically a single player game and this was a way to make it 'casual' which was absolutely wrong.
Making it more casual by offering easy content (while still also offering hard content) is a GOOD thing.
But completely nullifying the need to actually interact with other players is what, in my opinion, killed WoW.
>>331667525
>Cataclysm release
>Even normal dungeons are difficult for new players
>Heroics require CC and group coordination
>Immediately nerfed into the fucking ground because it was "too hard"
>>331665695
>Old Skill tree used to have a few choices here and there
>New skill tree has a few choices here and there
At least the old one made a difference leveling unlike the current which is like 40 levels of utility abilities and then finally a tier with a good dps option.
I will state the new system does make leveling dps more interesting though since there is more then 2 skills for everyone.
>>331666409
>Played Nostalrius for 2 months
No, vanilla was not the greatest experience ever. Remove your nostalgia googles buddy, vanilla is ok but is not amazing.
>>331668618
Put into what? All their games look and play like garbage. Can't even be bothered to put more people into the beta, let alone have a server that runs at over 20 ticks.
Fuck them. Massive jews they are.
>>331668308
>Just think about it. Vanilla Naxxramas. Fight against Kel Thuzad or 4H or anything beyound Maexxna - what percentage of WoW players at that time saw, hell even beat this content? 0.1? 0.001? 0.0000001?
What is the point in pouring massive resources into generating content like literally nobody of your playerbase gets to see?
See I get it, but when you're not releasing content for an ENTIRE YEAR anyway, you may as well just wait until more people build themselves up to eventually see that content, which they will if they're actually playing the game.
They didn't need 12 difficulties for raids.
>>331668646
lol anon do you actually believe this, if I log in at least 3 Oceanic servers are high pop and 7-8 US servers are high pop
>>331668646
they stopped reporting at 5.4M, not 4.
also really, this common sense degradation only reveals a rational bias and nothing more. right now players are gearing up for Legion by farming an ungodly amount of gold through garrison spam. believe it.
>>331667525
>Fuck doing the same raid I just did over and over for a year until i can get the gear to do the actually challenging stuff
Not defending the current state of the game, but I never bothered with LFR when I played and had no trouble finding raiding guilds. LFR is purely for casuals and people who NEED that one item to magically make them a better player.
>>331662551
you cant kill somethings thats dead
>>331668595
How can you have hopes for Legion when they can't even come up with 3 specs for a new class?
>>331668114
>Black Desert
>Serious players flocking to it
>you have to pay 35 dollors for costumes
>You have to pay if you want to reset skills
>No PvP
>No End PvE content
>No level cap
>Game is a fucking grind
>No trade between players
Found the fucking shill. Eat shit, cunt.
>>331668653
Even 5 man leveling dungeons are fucking shit now.
Heirlooms just make them a total fucking farce, a decent tank can pretty much solo entire groups of mobs.
I seriously worry how new players will react to that kind of thing. Doing Deadmines for the first time was fucking awesome, we wiped a lot but it felt like an actual dungeon, an actual challenge.
Now it's speed run by heirloomers
>>331668656
People were fucking awful at doing them and too used to dungeon finder to understand what a premade is. Casuals would have never progressed.
>>331668839
Why do you want three specs for a demon hunter? They have glaives, use demon powers and transform into one themselves temporarily.
Literally Illidan, what's the point of making a tank or healer out of it? Shit is fine as it is.
>>331668853
It's awful. Heirlooms were a giant mistake and Blizzard should remove them,.
>>331668656
>tfw I actually had hope
They even made a long post with the title "Man dungeons are hard now", where they encouraged players to use CC and coordinate their shit.
But no, 1 week later and we're back to WotLK tier difficulty.
I had fun that 1 week, just 1 week of actually having fun. Explaining tactics, leading the group, marking shit.. But no more ;_;
>>331668738
>What is the point in pouring massive resources into generating content like literally nobody of your playerbase gets to see?
Distinction.
Besides, plenty of people got to see it in TBC for Greenbringer+T3 farm runs and the same dungeon was recycled in WotLK. All old vanilla raids saw farm runs regularly in TBC.
The reason I still play WoW is I feel lost without it. When WoW went to shit, I had no idea what to play. I tried every other MMO and it just felt like a cash grab or poorly thought out.
I tried playing MOBA games but I couldn't get into them. They felt like long and drawn out WoW BGs but with full time shitposters that ruin your game.
>>331668853
You wiped a lot because you were a retard, just like every other person playing at the time. If you're wiping on Nost you might actually be a certified mongoloid.
>>331669013
One spec is tank, isn't it? and I don't want 3 specs, I didn't want the class at all, I am just saying that you can't have hopes for an expansion when the biggest selling point is literally two thirds of a normal class.
>>331668853
>>331668653
Those instances are 10 years old and most people going through them are running alts up to 100, of course they're going through as fast as possible because they've already done them a million times.
>everyone in them is in heirlooms
If they're new players they're not going to have heirlooms.
>>331668853
>He wants vanilla blizz like levening when the level cap is about to be 100.
I don't think the Nostalgia is actually letting you realize what you are actually asking for.
>>331669023
The start of Cata was fun as fuck, pity as usual the retards got their way and it quickly became another AOE spamfest that was a pointless chore to tick off the daily list
>>331668491
My issue is that feeling fades too fast. Vanilla servers are something people join every few months or years, play for a month, and are completely maxed out with nothing to do. People are too comfortable with mmos for Vanilla to last as long as it did when current. Even constantly releasing content won't do very much
>>331667070
>Raiding requires a lot of time
Only if your guild is shit. Raiding in reality takes around 6 hours a week. This is true for almost any MMO that follows the WoW game scheme.
What happens though is shitters burn out their shitter players 9 hours a week with 3 day 3 hour raiding schedules and then wonder why people quit constantly when you are stuck on a progression fight for 2 weeks.
Less time is literally better assuming the players understand to try prepare for the raid as best as they can.
>>331669016
People don't want to spend week of their time to get to the actual end game content, and the people playing the game making new characters were not new players. Heirlooms make sense, but completely fuck over new players learning anything as they're being carried by these people.
Death Knights > Demon Hunters
Arthas > Illidan
Undead > Demons
WOTLK > Legion
>>331669013
Arthas didn't dual weild and we still got DW Frost DKs.
>>331669146
Leveled two 100s from 1 in 2 months, half of the people in instances don't have heirlooms. Half of the people who do have 90+ heirlooms are retarded.
>>331669121
I really don't see an issue with it at all. I don't understand why all classes must have 3 specs, it just makes balance harder and since you don't even wanted the class.
I find it hard to understand why you would be pissed off that they are going to waste less time into a class you did not even want in the game. Not sure I see a demon hunter as a healer either.
>>331668853
>Doing Deadmines for the first time was fucking awesome, we wiped a lot but it felt like an actual dungeon, an actual challenge.
This will never come back. Players were much worse at the game back in Vanilla. I'm not defending current WoW but this shit is tiring. We have had legacy servers for years and people blow through that shit like it's nothing. The game is old, people know much more.
>>331669214
All of those are wrong and you don't even know if the last one is true.
From playing in the beta, Demon Hunters are smooth as fuck, way more smooth than random attack macro Death Knights were at release.
Imagine people still playing and buying expansions for Everquest like this. How fucking pathetic do you have to be to still be playing this decade old game?
People have moved on with their lives and have played bigger and better things and these sorry sacks of shit are still playing the same shit.
WoW players shouldn't be treated like human beings.
>>331667747
FF14 is pretty close to the worst leveling experience I have ever had in an MMO. Extremely slow and you can't even speed up leveling dungeons hardly because they level you down and remove your abilities that come from higher levels.
I never got to max exactly because of how terrible the leveling experience was.
I did love the crafting though even though it was kinda samey once you got the gist of the synergies.
>>331668802
Same, I always just said that I did the LFR and was never lucky when the guild asked me why I don't have any LFR pieces when starting normals. They saw that I was doing good without them, so they didn't mind when I told them that I don't bother with LFR anymore since I was never lucky anyway. As long as I wasn't the bottom DPS in progression, and I hardly was, they were fine with it.
>>331669414
I'm speaking purely from the readings on cool-o-meter.
are windwalker monks okay?
surely demon hunter will be good?
i mean come on, DOUBLE JUMP
>>331669282
Arthas was not a Frost Dk either, so I am not sure what your point is. Assuming he was a mere Dk like us, and not something fucking beyond, the only data we have from Warcraft games is that he is an Unholy Dk, which use 2H.
They really pulled out all the stops here, didn't they?
>Reviving Illidan
>Making Demon Hunters playable about 5 years too late
>Killing off more leaders
This HAS to be good or their game is dead as they know it. I'm betting they're hoping that DHs will draw in the young edge crowd like Blood Elves did.
>don't make content for your game
>players cycle through what little content there is extremely fast through LFG and LFR
>casual players have no incentives to try higher up content because you give them no reason to
>only people doing the mythic raids are hardcore autismos who get bored because there's all there is
>have the final raid tier of your expansion last almost 2 years
>wonder why subs are dropping and people are complaining
TBC had what like 8 raids? This 3 raids per expansion nonsense is killing their game. Even Blizzdrones are mad
>>331669210
>People don't want to spend week of their time to get to the actual end game content,
People don't know what's good for them. All this zerging through content do nothing but reduce the life span of the game.
>>331669382
You know they can have 2 dps specs, right? I am pissed because it means we will get another WoD.
>>331669493Unless you mean literal temperature, Illidan is way cooler than Arthas, man. I'll fight you over this.
>>331668549
Uldaur by far had the best hard modes scheme.
Tournament had the literal worst. Yes let me require my raiders to raid 4 different lock outs in a week to make sure we are maximizing gear. At least it didn't have trash though which was in my personal opinion amazing.
>>331669382
If they don't make three specs they're evil lazy Jews because I said so, and never mind that I don't want the class in to begin with, Blizzard is the devil and everything they make is shit.
>>331669583
YOU FOOL DO YOU NOT SEE THE GREATER IMPLICATIONS
>Kill of 90% of major characters
>Put world into ruin
>Now have a fucking BLANK SLATE to launch WC4 from.
>>331669583
>implying EVERYONE didn't want to play DHs back in TBC
It was widely anticipated to be the first or second Hero class. Anyone who is still invested in Blizzard will buy this and play DH for the first month.
>>331669583
>or the game is dead
>still subs
>selling game time
>selling multiple mounts and pets for years
>had three year long content droughts
I can't believe I'm still responding to "WoW is dead" posts, but what are you thinking? Do you honestly believe WoW will suddenly die when the people who play it put up with so much bullshit? Why do you have such faith in the WoW fanbase of all things?
>>331669563
My point is they had the freedom to make a 3rd spec for DKs even if it wasn't remotely similar to how DKs was in WC3.
Why can't they do the same with DHs? Just make something up, and then polish the theme and gameplay through-out the expansion.
>>331669586
You should never cater to the high tier autismos who clear new mythic raids in a week. Ever. They burn themselves out and they deserve it.
>>331669735
Absolutely right, Anon. It was the jews!! Fucking Jewzzard.
>>331669750
Its not a blank slate, its just a garbage can that is about to be cleared out. The setting is still convoluted garbage with the same convoluted storylines and the same 'one legion in all infinite realities also we can't die even when we're killed' bullshit.
>>331669586
>if they put in 30 instances and 15 raids no one would ever complain
It doesn't matter how much content gets put in, people will do them once and then bitch and cry about hving nothing to do, especially the people whopower through them as fast as possible and the people who never touch those parts of the game. Hell, every new content patch has people who live to speed through it as fast as humanly possible and then spend the rest of their time complaining about there being nothing to do.
>>331666409
You have AIDS.
>>331669903
I don't know, these types of decisions from Blizzard I will never understand. I personally prefer 2H frost on my DK, but oh fucking well.
>>331669791
>about 5 years too late
No, he covered that. I really wanted to be a DH in TBC because fuckin warglaives.
I rolled a Rogue just to get them, now I don't have to play this shitty wannabe DH class anymore.
>>331669586
>8 raids
Yeah, with shit for bosses. This isn't TBC. Do you not know how many autists are playing the game? Compare how good the average player is in a legacy server and how good the average player was in Vanilla and honestly tell me that you think a raid will last nearly as long now as it did when TBC was current.
>>331669691
Lay out in detail the two DPS specs Demon Hunters can have. Remember that they need to be separate and distinct and also fit with being a Demon Hunter as well as not be similar to other classes and specs. A list of moves, abilities, passives, and such will be needed as well.
>People still play WoW
>People will spend money on an expansion for a decade old game
Holy shit, how fucking pathetic.
>>331669903
At the time, it was clear that they intended one spec for tanking, one spec for leveling and "fun", and one spec for endgame raiding. Then the dilemma developed where players were turning all three specs into viable dps specs in certain situations, and since then they have been clamping down on DK class design. They really do not like it when people are playing a class in an unintended way.
>>331670220
I'll never understand the people who shit and belch and hoot about a geame solely becaus eof its age. It always feels like these comments are made by the youngsters who think anything older than the Xbone and PS4 = awful.
>>331666409
As a case with MMOs in general it significantly hinged on availability of friends in the game. If you had good guild that raided, joked around in the overworld like kyting satyr boss to Stormwind and did all sort of fun stuff together then you indeed had the greatest gaming experience of all time. If you played by yourself doing quests and BGs you had a very poor RPG experience.
>>331670197
Not that faggot but they should be rooted in Illidan (WC3) skillset. He melees, but he also mana burns as a ranged attack. There should be a ranged dps specialization which is largely drain-based, and builds up to metamorphosis for burst dps. Melee dps should be a close combat glasscannon - teleport in, burst as hard as you can, teleport out before you face your face smashed in.
>>331670437
It's called growing up and learning to adapt and try new things.
Also, I take it English isn't your first language so maybe it's best you stick to MMO's.
>>331670572
>mana burn
Priest, and also doesn't work on things without mana.
>ranged with drains
So an Affliction Warlock?
>remove a bunch of procs from ret paladins
>most alpha footage of rets I see is them auto attacking 90% of the fight
>holy is now a melee healing spec
Another expansion of playing my hunter. Thanks Blizzard
>>331668567
Your character looks like shit. It's like you went out of your way to find the worst combination of face, hair style and hair color.
>>331670698
>adapt
>implying older games are inherently bad
I'm guessing FNAF and Fallout 4 are fine because they weren't made 10 years ago.
>>331670197
Why should I do it? they managed to make 3 dps spec for rogues, they should be able to do it for DH. Shit, Druids have 4 specs.
A third spec could be a healer without healing spells, he heals through damage. An even more extreme Mistweaver.
>>331670720
>So an Affliction Warlock?
Well they already stole Metamorphosis from Demonologists, may as well go all the way.
>>331670698
>hurr if you play old games that means you don't play new games
I know you're trolling, but try to be intelligent with it or else you'll only show how much of a retard you are.
>hurr you didn't proofread your post for spelling mistakes that means you don't know English
Has nothing to do with the conversation nd also only shows how little you're trying.
>>331670829
Those aren't even remotely similar to MMO's. Dota 2 is pretty much the new WoW. LoL if you are desperate to eat shit.
>>331670728
>removing procs from ret
What. Is this real? Why would they take the procs away from the proc machine?
That was literally it's theme for 3+ expansions
>>331671005
>MOBAs
>remotely similar
If anything, you've strayed further from mmos. Are you thinking straight?
>>331671169
Same reason they got rid of button mashing from monk.
>>331670869
>Demon Huntes
>healing
>ROFL MAKE IT JUST LIKE THE MONK HEALING SPEC BUT EDGIER AND EXTREEEEEEEEEME!!
And you claim the people still playing the game are stupid.
>>331670910
>Demon Hunters stole Metamorphosis from Demonolgy Warlocks
You're from Bizzaro World, aren't you. Metamorphosis is a DH skill, Blizzard gave it to Demo Locks, because they didn't make DH playable, which NEVER fit the class and spec because Demo Locks CONTROL AND SUBJUGATE demons, they don't BECOME the demons.
>>331668308
>Fight against Kel Thuzad or 4H or anything beyound Maexxna - what percentage of WoW players at that time saw, hell even beat this content?
This has literally nothing to do with difficulty.
This is because you NEEDED gear from previous raids to do later ones. This made it difficult to get through the new raids because with 40 people, you needed to do catch up a lot.
Retail wow fixed this by letting you play easy catch up with gear between every raid. You can do new 5 man or use badges to get all the gear you need for the current raid.
>>331671281
What's the difference between doing PvE and PVP content in WoW to playing Dota 2? There's nothing more to MMO's now thanks to WoW, so you may as well be playing multiplayer games that have just as big of a community if not bigger.
>>331671336
>You're from Bizzaro World, aren't you. Metamorphosis is a DH skill, Blizzard gave it to Demo Locks, because they didn't make DH playable, which NEVER fit the class and spec because Demo Locks CONTROL AND SUBJUGATE demons, they don't BECOME the demons.
Illidan only gained metamorphosis because he ate guldan's skull. No other DH has attained that power.
I think the pruning is the right thing to do, for what I have seen so far of Legion, it is going to make for a much better gameplay for every class.
>>331671672
The Demon Hunters we play as are ones personally trained by Illidan.
>>331671672
>No other DH has attained that power
The WC3 demon hunter hero had it.
>>331671475
Might as well compare gaming as a whole to hitting a rock with a stick. If you want to say that an rpg is less related to an MMORPG than an ASSFAGGOT, anything goes.
>>331670728
>removing procs from ret
WHAT THE FUCK? WHAT HAVE THEY DONE TO YOU, MY SON?I've pretty much only played ret paladin since BC up to cata and a little of WoD, saying they took away procs simply doesn't make sense, how does the fucking class work, now?Didn't the first fucking tier set in WoD have like 20 different proc conditions?
>>331670572
Everything to do with DH hunters has been bungled by Blizz in WoW
>fuck the illidari with fan fic teir writing in tbc 'No kael you are the demons'
>Don't include DH for 6 expansions so they give meta to locks
>Realise Locks having meta make you new class revel pointless so nerf demo to the ground a year before legions so the plebs forget about it and can be wowed again
>Release a 2 spec class with the DPS spec being a two button spec with fucked up crit interactions and the Tank spec being recycled vanilla bear tanks with a couple of less good blood spells.
It's almost so bad it's sad
>class pruning
>with the new abilities / talents they've put in and the artifact interaction
Each class is actually more distinct now in Legion dude. Confirmed for not actually looking into shit.
>>331671336
Other options could be ranged physical dps without a pet based on dots, melee caster that can burn through his mana quickly if he isn't careful.
>>331671919
>Liking procs unironically
Are you fucking serious? You should be freaking happy your class is not dependent on some fucking RGNANYMORE.
What in the actual fuck is wrong with you. Fuck, this is the dream Rets have been asking for years.
>>331672135
Procs are fun because you actually have to pay attention to what happens to your character and don't have a rigid script.
>>331671898
Because he was Illidan.
>>331672008
Dude, Kael fucked his own people on his quest to save them, that's not bad writing, dude lost his way by becoming addicted to magic near the end and thinking he could overthrow Illidan. When they made him come back in sunwell plateau was when they fucked him up entirely,
I agree with everything else you said though.
>>331672135
>I want a linear button sequence/rotation that I don't have to pay attention to at all
You want rets to become hunters, you're confirmed a faggot.
>>331672257
>RGN are in literally every fucking class
What are you fucking on about. RGN is pure cancer, specially when you depent on it to make enough DPS.
What do you mean by rigid script? Without RGN you are free to use abilities in a manner that most benefit the situation, making you more precise as your skill increases. It is literally fucking perfect, specially for PvP.
>>331672257
>Man I sure do hope my execute procs during the burn phase
You can have priority based play styles without procs. No one is trying to force set rotations but rare RNG is terrible.
>>331672008
>Realise Locks having meta make you new class revel pointless so nerf demo to the ground a year before legions so the plebs forget about it and can be wowed again
How is removing Meta nerfing Demo Locks? All it does for them is be a limited time damage boost. Actually summoning and controlling various demons with different mechanics and abilities is a major step up for the spec.
>>331672309
So Blizzard were lazy cunts who just re-skinned the hero characters with all the same abilities no matter what.
>>331672436
>I want a shinny shit on my screen that tells me to press that button without any control on how my character works
>I cannot into learning the dynamics of a class without RGN to adapt to every situation, based on my skill and knowledge.
Confirmed for PvE pleb.
>>331671898
And now these player demon hutners that illidan was secretly training also can transform.
The writing is completely stupid because they keep going back on things they said they wouldn't do. They never planned on making demon hunters playable, as exhibited by giving warlocks metamorphosis. They reneged on that because they're just trying to throw the most popular aspects of their lore at the game now to bring people back.
>>331672338
I can buy Kael going evil from feeding on fel magic, I don't buy that he would sell out everyone to KJ the demon responsible for creating the scourge the force that killed his people a fact Kael is fully aware of.
>>331672595
>playing minigames:^)
>>331670698
I guess the people who have been playing chess, soccer or a fucking instrument for years are pathetic faggots too?
WoD was so shitty... so unbelievably shitty that I fired up Everquest again. Fucking Everquest. A 17 year old game that i quit 14 years ago. I am playing on the Phinegal server and am having more fun than I had in WoW since cataclysm.
Im done with blizzard Im not even gonna buy legion.
>>331672578
>All these people who don't even play wow making statements as matter of fact without having an idea of what they are on about
/v/ is fucking cancer.
>>331672595
>WANTS BRAIN DEAD ROTATIONS
>CALLS SOMEONE PvE PLEB
holy shit anon, please stop
>>331667658
Except XIV had it's peak at 1m and already started dipping down.
>>331672257
>>331672451
>if I do low dps it's because I was unlucky, it wasn't because I am not good enough
>>331665963
What's wrong with that, exactly? Do you really need a billion abilities on every class when you don't use half of them?
>>331672545
He meant that Demo locks were nerfed in WoD and nobody played them for the whole expansion so now Blizz can rework them and sneakily throw Metamorphosis to another class. Also while Metamorphosis indeed was used as a burst its mechanic was made for a flexible use, blizzard were just too retarded to include spells that would push people to complex rotations that would require situational transformations.
>>331672815
Is anything in XIV even hard? I can't imagine that game would be too hard with the type of people that flock to it.
>>331672682
>NO ONE IS ALLOWED TO EVER CHANGE THEIR MINDS!! ONCE YOU SAY SOMETHING YOU MUST FOREVER ABIDE BY IT OR YOU MAKE ME SO FUCKING ANGRY!!
>>331668025
>a hell of a lot better looking.
ahahahhaahahahahahaha
>>331672772
>thinking anybody here who has an opinion on games has ever played them, ever.
Where. The fuck. Do you think you are?
>>331672682
It's not anymore stupid than Death Knights being able to wield frost and shit. Death Knights used to be orc souls put into human bodies by Warlocks but now Arthas creates them and Worgen can be Death Knights even though they established they were immune to it.
So fuck the writing, Blizzard just does what they want.
>>331672874
What's wrong with situational fun spells? what's wrong with having inferior spells that bad players will use, once again building the difference between who is a good player and who isn't?
>>331667747
It's pretty nice because you can play all the jobs on a single character, but the combat is a bit slower than WoW.
Not necessarily a bad thing, but just something to be aware of if you want to be pressing a button every second. It gets better at higher levels due to having more ogcd abilities, but it's still slower than WoW.
>>331672545
They nerfed demo locks last patch and made up some bullshit excuse that it was 'their turn' to be the worst spec in the game (and implied it was purely coincidental).
Im not mad they're taking meta from demo I like new demo I think it's cool, Im mad they fucked demo for so long because they bungled DH for so long and they want DH to seem more cool on release.
>>331672836
>>331672792
>You have control over Randomly generated numbers
>Depending on them for your DPS is not shit
>Having freedom of choice to adapt to situation, which requires knowledge of what your abilities are capable of equals brain dead rotations
I sincerely hope this is bait, Anons. What a fucking disappointment.
>>331672706
>WPvP
>Arenas
>Rbg's
>Minigames
Everything is a minigame in World of Warcraft if you want it to be.
>>331672792
You can have a priority based system on a class without RNG. Its literally what Arms Warriors are without the execute proc.
That proc brings nothing to the gameplay as it has no interesting synergy and has low proc rate. Its just the top of the priority chain except for Smash
>>331668216
Why not just have a blue pixel scream numbers at a larger red pixel?
>>331673010
Nice strawman
I'm just saying their writing looks terrible and the game's direction is everywhere because they keep trying to bring back things they've forgotten or never looked into. If they just added QoL improvements that didn't entirely destroy other aspects of the game, they wouldn't have this many people claiming their game is dead when it isn't even close to being dead.
The addicts keep this game alive, there is no question about that. People who keep quoting sub numbers are retarded.
>>331672921
>sneakily
They announced Meta was going back to DH when they first revealed Legion.
>>331673073
>Where. The fuck. Do you think you are?
Good fucking question.
>>331672978
Of course it isn't. It's a wow clone with 2x slower combat.
Legion actually seems to be the hardest WoW has been. For the simple fact that all fights are now puzzles. That's why blizzard pruned the classes so hard, they want them to be easier to play so people can pay attention to the fights and react to situations and not constantly focusing on their rotation.
>>331673095
Why would you bother shitting up an action bar, wasting a player's time, or shitting up their spellbook with that garbage?
What the fuck is a "fun spell"? Strictly inferior abilities are not "fun" in any way, shape or form.
>>331666578
>he plays mmos to be alone
Kek
>>331672921
Metamorphasis was fucking awful and caused demo to be one of the most popular specs to literally no one using it.
Summoning swarms of expendable demons is way better
>>331673314
2.5x times actually. God, that gcd is terrible.
>>331672978
T9 was hard, probably not by WoW standards, but it was certainly a pain in the ass to do with the shitty players of XIV.
>>331673197
>You can have a priority based system on a class without RNG
Exactly. It's what Paladins were in WOTLK. The amount of proc managing you have in WoD is ridiculous.
That first tier set in WoD may as well say "2pc: Believe in the heart of the cards for skill sto light up, 4pc: Go to an arcade and put a quarter in the whack a mole machine to increase your dps"
>>331673495
Unless you have ADD, it doesn't really matter that much.
How in the fuck do I get into this game? Should I start now or just wait until legion drops?
Also where are some good beginner or endgame guides?
>>331669023
I kept getting kicked for asking how to do a fight. It was annoying
>>331673309
My point was never that it was bad demo was losing meta.
Its bad Blizz gutted Demo for a whole year (and lied about why they did it) so no one would play it so it feels like a 'fresh' mechanic when they drop DH's which is a best underhanded and a wost an accounting driven cash grab devoid of an form of integrity.
One could also argue that is shows a lack of foresight they gave demo meta in the first place when DH has been the most requested class since wow was released.
>>331673603
It makes it piss-easy and boring.
>>331673802
Go ahead and play the free starter edition to identify which class you like the A E S T H E T I C of.
>ITT people bitch about ability pruning despite the WoW team having brought most of the abilities back already as optional skills to learn
If you don't want flavor spells you don't learn them, if you do you go to your trainer and get taught them.
What the fuck are you idiots bitching about?
>>331673802
You should not bother. The game is shit and the only people even considering playing are addicts or die-hard Blizzdrones.
>>331673885
Not really, you either know your rotation or you don't. Pressing a button every second isn't particularly more difficult than pressing a button every 2 seconds.
>>331673931
Shut up and go away with your facts, we're here to bitch and complain and you can't stop us.
>>331673806
Well that wasn't me then.
I took great joy in going through the fight in detail. Have to live up to the reputation of female tauren players etc.
Is anyone else just waiting for the TBC servers? PlayTBC has a April 14th release date. Corecraft will probably release when my kid's kid is snorting my ashes in VR anime hell.
This is actually going to revive the game. In a world of MOBA players, having more than 5-6 abilities is needlessly complex and annoying. Always sucked that you needed 50 hotkeys. They are doing good to reign the game in and make it manageable. The few vocal guys will cry sure as you can see here, but overall this is going to be a positive change for the game.
>>331673931
Can I get rid of spells? I don't like having Ancient Portal: Dalaran anymore.
>>331674278
It's hard to forget stuff you know. Specially what you want to forget.
>>331674254
Is Nost planning on eventually rolling TBC out? I've been playing on it and I like the high pop.
>>331674115
>priority based rotations
>1 sec GCD vs. 2.5 sec doesn't matter
Except that in one you have to make a decision every second and in the other you do it every 2.5 seconds.
>>331674496
yes
>>331674636
>implying it's hard to see if a buff/debuff is running or not
>>331674695
That's exciting for me. I quit at before Naxx and I've heard TBC was the pinnacle of the game.
>>331671357
I feel like that's a bad thing at the same time though
Being in on the ground floor so that you can start at one raid and build up to progressively harder ones feels like way more of an accomplishment when the gear gets progressively better
If you can just get equivalent items to the last raid from a 5 man, the whole last raid feels like it was pointless.
>>331674872
TBC had great leveling zones, absolutely fantastic raids and lots of content.
>>331669414
>From playing in the beta, Demon Hunters are smooth as fuck
The drakes in the last phase of the Malygos fight have a more complex rotation than Demon Hunters. Demon Hunters are literally babby-tier.
>You will never be obsessed about the fate of an MMO after you "quit and moved on" like most idiots on /v/
>>331675250
Isn't that a good thing? Aren't there going to be thousands of boosted Demon Hunters running around?
>>331674819
>Implying that making a decision in 1 second is not harder then making it in 2.5
Add on top of that Skill speed being shit on most classes so even high end you still have slow GCDs.
>>331675250
Could you imagine if they made the class hard to play? People would be furious.
You have to remember that Blizzard caters to the lowest denomination of player.
>>331675705
This is really all you need to look at to see why the game is failling.
The same thing is happening in hearthstone. New players are completely forgotten and their means of approaching the game are entirely not implemented.
>>331675316
It's because none of the people here have actually moved on, they're just waiting for the game to have content again so they can resub. You can bet almost everyone here will buy Legion.A lot of them went and tried FFXIV and then complained it wasn't the exact same game.
>>331675420
>implying that with the billion addons WoW has, it's not easy as shit
>>331675705
And the problem isn't that the game doesn't teach you how to play. It just gives you no incentive to figure it out because it never challenges you on any level. The game has turned into a single player game that throws everything you want at you as fast as possible.
>>331675927
>>331675705
So new players are too stupid to make a level 1 character and work from there?
>>331676157
Why would they make a level 1 when they get given a level 90?
>>331676157
see>>331676215
When shit is handed to you, you don't get time to learn or feel motivation to learn.
>>331668567
you post the same ugly fucking characters in every thread, no one cares about your ebin barbarian humans with ugly disney models
>>331676157
You learn nothing from a level 1 character.
>>331676157
Even if you level the old fashioned way you just solo 1 to 15 then AOE grind dungeons from 15 to 90. You can literally play 1 to 90 and never learn a thing about how to play your class because you just zerg everything.
>>331665413
You're forgetting achievements. Literally thousands of hours of content that most will never finish
>>331676419
>>331676281
>>331676215
So it doesn't matter at all what anyone does, then, no one knows how to play the game right.
>>331666684
Basically
Let's say you're an Arcane Mage
You get Arcane shit, but not Fire or Frost related shit.
>>331673379
What are you? Some strictly pve hardcore raid dps faggot who only gets his kicks by topping the dps meter?
Mind control is fun, utility is fun, crowd control is fun, changes to movement and positioning are fun.
>>331669526
>DOUBLE JUMP
to do what with
gimick to the max
if you wanna fly roll a goblin engineer shammy
>>331676460
Yeah rep grinds are really compelling content.
>>331676157
regardless of starting at level 1 or level 90 you'll still run around 1-2 shotting any mob with almost any ability. either way you'll still learn nothing
>>331676529
Is that why they made Ice Barrier baseline for mages?
>its still cool to pretend WoW is shit
Its the same shit every expansion and its only getting better.
>>331666137
>wow doesn't have a cash shop
anon...
>>331672978
Yeah, the last raid tier had 2 fights that were ridiculously overtuned to the point it was breaking up groups trying to beat them, and on top of that they weren't even fun. One of them was just mechanically broken to where cheesing it became the preferred way to do it.
>>331676450
Not to mention nobody will EVER speak to each other in those groups because you're just chain pulling 5 packs at a time and AOEing them down so there's no communication required. Every run is dead silent and you're doing that over and over and over and over to level. It's really the most excruciating grind in all of gaming.
>>331676614
Pretty much. They couldn't be arsed to give each spec their own version.
>>331676657
>getting better
I play this regularly and youre full of shit
>Everything outside of endgame raiding feels so hollow and pointless. It's a shame since mythic raiding has been a lot of fun if you find a guild of non-autsists. God help anyone that's still stuck on progression this late into HFC.
>>331671336
If the game was to get a new healing spec, it should be Mage.Time-control healing powers.
>>331676305
>waaaaah stop posting WoW stuff in WoW threads it makes me so mad i need to bitch about it incessantly
>>331676215
>>331676281
I refuse to believe that anyone is stupid enough to use their 90 boost and play it from level 90.
That would be like starting a 10 chapter game from level 9. I can't even pick up a 10 chapter game and continue from chapter 2 (after having not played in a long while), I have to restart so I know what the fuck I'm doing.
>>331662551
Isn't it dead already?
>>331676795
>Not to mention nobody will EVER speak to each other in those groups
I don't see the problem here. I deal enough with people trying to fucking talk to me at work.
>>331676998
it would probably help if blizzard themselves weren't basically saying chapters 1-9 are bullshit and they're just helping you get to the real story hidden in chapter 10
>>331676573
>lvl 90
>one/two-shotting anything at the same level
Everything in WoD takes several seconds to kill even when you have high-level gear.
So I guess WoW doesn't have a "How to play your class" thing if you use the Lv 90 boost?
>>331677121
The entire point of an MMO is to play with other people. If you're too autistic to do that, play a single player game.
Content drought has always been Blizzard's modus operandi.
People still play Blizzard games?
>>331677121
>nobody talking during dungeon runs in a fucking MMO
>Don't see the problem there
congratulations, you're part of the cancer that killed the MMO genre
How long until they introduce permanent time walking event, including old content raids?
>>331663191
The best part is that their "legendaries" which are essentially pseudo talent trees are only good for one expansion. At the end of the expansion those weapons and all the abilities and passives that come with it will be gone.
Legion will be the death knell for WoW. It's fucking over, they literally care more about advertising that piece of shit movie and their TF2 ripoff than fixing WoW.
>>331677182
I stopped in 6.1, but back then, everything died in 1 chaos bolt, or if i was farming, one corruption/agony while i ran around in a circle like an idiot.
>>331677328
Forgot image.
>>331677327
I am playing with other people. I'm just not talking to them.
>>331677341
>hurr durr you need to talk to people
fucking social normalfags need to leave
>Kill
Its died with Cataclysm.
>>331677454
If you don't like speaking to people and you get into the MMO genre you're a fucking moron.
Community and interaction makes a game thrive
>>331677323
When you use it you have to play through the Tanaan intro (like everyone else starting WoD) but you have to unlock your abilities. So you have to learn every single ability and talent from 1-90 in about half an hour.
>tfw no MMO which has forced social interaction anymore
>tfw people actually like playing an MMO completely isolated
This is what I'll never understand.
>>331677323
When you enter Draenor you do the usual starting zone that anyone else would do, except you have no abilities when you start and they're handed to you piecemeal over the length of the introductory quests. They don't give you any kind of explanation of what they do or how to play. You just get another 2-4 abilities every time you finish a quest. Then you're dumped into the actual starting zone for WoD (Frostfire or Shadowmoon).
>>331677445
>Ulduar is one of the best raids they've ever done
>Only had it 112 days long (the shortest tier ever)
>They did this to force in the shitty TTOC that nobody liked
>People then got stuck in ICC for 400 days
What an absolute fuck up
>People have taste so shit they are still playing WoW
>They wait until fucking now to complain about their game removing stuff when it's been going in that direction since half a decade ago. And they're just now realizing it.
>People that are so retarded they'd die on DDR think their opinion matters.
>They're not even good at the game they love so much either as a top raiding guild that server first raid bosses or being one of the top 30 pvpers in their class.
What a joke.
>>331677574
correlation is not causation
just because there was a lot of social interaction in vanilla wow does not mean that's why the game was thriving
>>331675995
So you are stating that the addons in WoW cause 1 seconds to take more reaction speed then 2.5 seconds? Just wanna clarify that you are literally retard.
>>331664316
you will overdose on memes
>>331677820
you're right, the games doing so much better now that those things aren't in it anymore
>>331677454
I am sorry you are socially retarded but you're playing the wrong genre if that's the case. Catering to people like you is what killed the game.
>>331677454
The encounter should be difficult enough to facilitate communication, wrathbabby.
>>331677820
It was a major part of it, as many people who played Vanilla-->TBC will tell you.
Lots formed friendships and guilds that have lasted to this day. You stick around for your friends because you enjoy playing together, not a generic boss battle with a few mechanics
>tfw they've killed unholy on the alpha by drowning it in resources faster than you can spend
Shit feels like frost did in the MoP beta before they gave it a 1 second GCD. Even the new Soul Reaper can only do so much since it has downtime.
>>331677913
The game is doing worse because they catered to casuals and removed difficulty, not because of some idiotic idea that community and interaction had anything to do with the game being good.
>>331677634
Wildstar forced social interaction and it flopped.
>>331678220
or that people have been playing the same game for more than a decade.
>>331678220
>not because of some idiotic idea that community and interaction had anything to do with the game being good.
lol.
If you actually think community and player interaction isn't a big part of why MMOs became popular, kill yourself Cata babby
>>331677932
>>331677950
I played vanilla and TBC and actively raided during both.
Community had shit all to do with it, I couldn't give less of a fuck about the people in my guild, I just wanted to play the fucking game. I interacted with people because I couldn't play the game otherwise, not because I was a normalfag who feels like interaction is something that just has to be in WoW for it to be fun.
>>331678274
Yeah I totally remember all those people I needed to interact with while leveling.
>>331678220
If you don't see the link between lowered difficulty and lack of communication you have severe mental deficiencies for which you should seek immediate medical help.
I mean look at hots, Diablo and overgay. Blizzard went full Jew EA mode
>People think a company whose job is to make money would cater to poopsocking NEET raiders forever
L-LOL?
>>331669707
>Ulduar had the best scheme
Not really. Hodir, Vezax, XT, Thorim were some pretty bad triggers for hard modes, seeing as you either had to hold back a lot if you didn't wanna trigger the HM. In case of Hodir, he doesn't even have one, you just get more loot if you speedkill him.
Fights like Leviathan, Freya, Iron Council and Yogg-Saronn don't really need to have a bunch of different combined hard modes, just do 1, fuck the people that can't do it.
Razorscale, Ignis, Kologarn. Auriaya don't even have hardmodes.
Algalon was artificial difficulty, the fight itself is not hard, but being able to only do him for an hour a week is just straight bullshit. Would rather have a fight that just kicks your ass to hell and back, on par with LK25HC no buff.
The concept of triggering the hardmode during the fight itself is nice, but I don't think they pulled it off too well, and Blizz seems to agree. Going away from the idea entirely was shitty as well, though.
Ulduar is still the best raid, though, don't get me wrong.
>>331678385
>normalfag
There's that word again. I made friends with plenty of people in WoW who weren't "normal"
>>331668709
>playing on Nostralius is the same as time traveling back to when Vanilla was actually relevant and a lot of people's "first step" into MMO's
You missed out buddy boyo. When nobody knew shit about stats and gear and min/maxing without all these retarded addons that tell you what to do and when to do it. When community mattered, when you built a friendship with that random lvl 20 warrior you helped quest with and he became a lvl 60 in a top guild and invited you to raid with them. You will never know. Hanging out IRL with guildies, having beers, drinks, laughs. A core raiding group. It was tons of fun, sucks to be you.
>>331666409
I actually agree
Troll specific druid forms when
Better run animations for every mount that is not a horse when
Priest racial spells when
>>331678493
But that's exactly what they did with Mythic difficulty in WoD...
>>331678385
>being a socially retarded awkward dork is ok as long as I call everyone else normies
>>331678514
see >>331678515
>Hanging out IRL with guildies, having beers, drinks, laughs
Majority of these faggots are fucking obnoxious normalfags who need to die.
>>331678493
I mean, they way they balanced classes for HFC seems to indicate otherwise. Do you really think they'd nerf faceroll specs like frost DK if they didn't give a fuck about the NEET raiders of Midwinter and Method?
>>331678635
True. But you know most of /v/ is trash so they can only do normal mode
>>331678635
No other expansion had as many World Class guilds disband permanently as WoD.
They clearly didn't cater to them correctly.
>>331678462
Can't wait for Onlywatch to flop.
>>331678754
Nah, I'm sure at least one sperg from <DUDE MEMES LMAO> will spam his cutting edge Archimonde in a few minutes.
>>331677634
Go play boardgames if you like social interaction so much.
As a PVP fag, playing against others is fun, with them, not so much. I will never understand why pve fags insist on conducting their social behavior in a medium which most inherent appeal is that you don't have to deal with people in a direct personal manner.
Then again, I am a misanthrope.
>tfw all the Warlock specs in Legion arefun
All that matters lads
>>331678635
If by cater to you mean completely disband the most of the world's top poopsockers, yeah.
>>331678754
Even trash can do Mythic Archimonde thanks to rings and item upgrades allowing them to overgear mechanics that really should not be able to be overgeared.
A lot of people simply don't raid in a format like that because it doesn't appeal to them.
Earlier expansions understood that and still provided things to do.
>>331678967
is destruction out?
Affliction looks terrible to me, demo is kinda cool but its always been a novelty spec
>>331678635
remember that one comic where Tigole complaied that there wasn't enough content to satisfy his hyper elitest guild? same situation
>>331678967
I still miss Wrath/Cata affliction the most. Demonology on the alpha seems cool, but I just can't get into aff anymore.
>>331677820
>Wow vanilla 6 million people
>Wow now 5 million people
:D
>>331679081
Destruction isn't out yet. But I am enjoying Demo, and I'll never play Afflic because dots suck
>>331679061
>even trash can do mythic archimonde
>thanks to mechanics that were introduced AFTER everyone who actually gave a shit did them
Anon take a second and think before you post next time
>>331678967
Not like current demo means you're a shitter
>>331678909
>plays game that requires teamwork and communication with other people
>does not enjoy teamwork and communication with other people
Do you complain about having to press pedals when you drive, too?
>>331679240
Timeframe seriously did not matter in any post before yours.
Having Cutting Edge by itself is meaningless now. Simple as that. Especially since boosts are popping up for it now.
>>331679209
>can't read
:D
How's Survival Hunter on the beta?
>>331678909
Why not simply play a shooter or moba then? Why an MMO?
Also
>which most inherent appeal is that you don't have to deal with people in a direct personal manner.
No, the most inherent appeal is experiencing shit you wouldn't otherwise experience.
Why people need to infest the one genre that is actually supposed to have some social interaction with single player shit is beyond me.
>>331678909
as pvp guy i can understand what he's saying, the community dies because of things like this but that wouldn't be the main reason.
real life sources can be a thing that changes the community over all but in game mechanics can really ruin them.
>>331679370
>Playing a hunter
>Ever
I will not understand these people.
>>331678967
They betyter decide to implement staff animations, there's no reason not to, considering they're making animations for literally everything else. I don't like the fact that I'm casting shit with my hands when I have a fucking all powerful staff on my back
>>331679375
>Why people need to infest the one genre that is actually supposed to have some social interaction
The fact that you think that about MMOs amuses me.
>>331679545
I've played hunter since early vanilla, switched Shaman to main in WOTLK, then quickly back to hunter.
It's fun
>>331679260
what?
>>331679370
It's a Rexxar simulatorLots of fun
>>331679582
>all melee classes get a different animation for every ability they use
>casters use the same shitty 11yo motions for every cast with stat sticks on their back
I don't even play casters and it's still shit, especially in an expansion focused around artifacts, you'd think they would actually use the damn things.
>ability pruning
Truly the next step is
HACK N SLASH MMOS WHEN?
>>331679370
as a hunter lover, it kind of makes me sad to see my favorite spec go like this. i'm really iffy on it
i like that they're bringing change to hunters but not like this, not like this each spec had similar things but because of the stupid arcane shot removal from marks everything has gone down hill since.
>>331676530
If blizzard weren't tremendous shitters they'd have encounters where mind control is either mandatory or could make things much easier. Not to mention that mind control in PvP can be vital in order to take out a powerful player out of the fight. I can't count how many fights I have won by just mc ing that fucking grand marshal into lava in the molten span while my rogue and shaman stalled the rest of the company out for our blood.
How are mythic instances?
>>331679776
Exactly, it would be easier now considering they lock which types of weapons those classes/specs can use, so now they can make shadowpriests do cool shit with their daggers or fire mages use the fucking sword they have in some way
>>331679794
Could you retype that, but in English this time?
>>331677932
I take offense to that. There was a lot of communication going on during WotLK.
>>331679862
Not hard enough, no new mechanics. The only changes are some new trash mobs in a few of the dungeons.
If they want it to be a raiding replacement for people that don't like big groups, they have to make it as challenging as raids and require similar coordination.
But right now, it's just like Heroic dungeons were on release, maybe even a tad easier thanks to gear.
>>331680045
Yeah I loved the long discussions about how much gearscore was needed for VoA on trade chat
>>331680163
>pugging raids
literally cancer
>>331677634
because most gaming communities are shit but the games themselves are fun. warcraft especially so.
think about the people in this thread acting like cunts when discussing forced social interaction. would you want to play with those people? didn't think so.
>Holy Paladins mastery is getting changed
>It's shit
Thanks Blizz.
>>331680259
>would you want to play with those people? didn't think so.
That's the point in guilds/friendships. You ignore the cunts, make friends with the cool people, and have fun
>>331662551
>Class pruning will kill this game
>will kill this game
>
It's been dead since cataclysm where have you been?
>>331680163
I used to be the only Vanquisher back when we were doing Naxx, so I was getting a shitton of loot that no one else could use.
I had an entire second set of gear on that Dk that I enchanted and gemmed with Intellect and took him into VoA, having my shit gear for trash, then switching to my real gear to destroy everyone on Archavon. The rage in trade would last for hours.
How are Holy Priests in Legion? I don't know if I want to switch to discipline for healing
>>331680259
Are you that socially inept you've never made friends with a small group of people from a larger crowd of people?
>everyone needs to see content
>remember those things called "meeting stones" ?
>classes play exactly same no difference across the board
>all raids are same: two tanks front of boss, dps behind boss and healers behind dps just spamming healing buttons
>>331680163
>gearscore
>LFM VoA 10man 5.5k+ GS
KILLMEKILLMEKILLMEKILLMEKILLMEKILLMEKILLME
>>331669059
> playing mmos and mobas only
Found your problem brah!
>>331673382
>playing video games with other people
Degenerate
THEY'RE MAKING SHADOWBURN AND BACKDRAFT TALENTS FOR DESTRO WARLOCK ON THE SAME TIER WHAT THE FUCK ARE THEY THINKING AHHHAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
>>331680698
>all raids are same: two tanks front of boss, dps behind boss and healers behind dps just spamming healing buttons
To Blizzards credit they have been making their raids a lot more involved and mechanically different for healers and DPS. They still go with the "taunt on # stacks" though with quite a few bosses.
>>331680794
for u it was 5.7k and achivement wanna know how much fun it was
>>331678694
Not really. I was in a guild full of dudes in Uni/College or had actual careers. We were all very laid back and chill, not to mention in a very very good guild. Idk, maybe I just got lucky. I find there are definitely more obnoxious people on WoW today then there ever was. Might be the kids that grew up with the internet and reddit / tumblr / 4chains. They don't exactly have a personality of their own, in fact they just spew memes all day like an incarnation of one of those sites.
It was different, I guess. Or, again, maybe I was one of the lucky few.
>>331669415
Lol, so fucking jelly that you didnt get to experience the good days of wow. Go play your DOTA 5 or Advanced Warfare 7.5.
>>331667747
You had to do it didn't you.
>>331670437
Its called trolling by people who dont play video games; welcome to the internet.
>>331680843
They're making demonic circle, burning rush and shield in one tier. That's all of our mobility and half of our survivability mutually exclusive. It's going to be fucking impossible getting out of AoEs unscathed, while everybody else, blinks charges or jumps away. Locks may finally fall behind even DK in mobility this time.
>>331680903
>10man H HFC, 715ilvl min and AoTC
SAME CANCER
DIFFERENT YEAR
>>331681183
Honestly a lot of specs are getting shafted like that, it's easy to fall into the trap of thinking your spec is getting it worst.
>no incentive whatsoever to be social
>the server communities no longer exist
>raids get smaller and smaller
>you level so you might as well be given a level 100 when you login
>selfies in warcraft
>>selfies in warcraft
>>>selfies in warcraft
>>>>selfies in warcraft
It's been dead for a while.
>>331680163
>>331680236
>>331680794
Every now and then near the end of Burning Crusade and Wrath I would join PUGs with me in full Black Temple/Sunwell or Heroic ICC gear. The clowns would treat me like royalty as they trashtalked about people who were more than geared to run whichever dungeon they wanted to run...
Then I'd leave right before they started.
>>331681325
I remember that shit with Garrosh kills back in MoP. I'd be starting OQueue to pug some people into our Garrosh kill to get some free cash and I'd always see
>Normal Garrosh Kill, 570+ iLvl minimum, link cheevo
Shit was ridiculous.
Changes that triggered you. I only started in wrath, but I wanna complain too.
>poison is an ability requiring no materials, implying rogues naturally secrete poison like a frog
>flying, dual spec cost a pittance now, after spending a small fortune to get these things on my characters
>flying anywhere making my mechanohog, the symbol of my wealth and engineering prowess, useless
>lfr makes casuals never bother to try raiding, so now we're stuck with black and white guilds that are either hard core as fuck or casual shitters
>>331681330
Others had mobility to begin with, those three abilities are all warlocks had and even they are far worse than anything other classes have.
>>331680618
I'm not so socially inept that I force myself to endure the company of faggots for a sliver of positive interaction.
>>331681546
You mentioned DKs specifically, and they have a single mobility spell that's a 4 second channel for 70% extra speed with a 1min CD.
And they're melee.
>>331679789
Vindictus
>>331681641
Well, yes, poor bastards had it worse, but this change puts locks in the same place, also melee is an advantage here, they always have less AoE shit to run away from, since "floor is lava" is the only way blizzard knows how to complicate RDD raiding.
>>331681501
wrath baby qq'ing about anything?
you haven't even played the real wow you spastic.
>>331681797
You're falling into "grass is greener" thinking again.
>>331681914
But wrath was the pinnacle of wow:^)
>>331681797
The thing is, they're removing Death's Advance. So while we get Wraith Walk, it still hasn't fixed mobility issues since they took 1 step forward and 1 step back.
>>331681501
LFG and his subsequent LFR is definitely the worst offender.
Thousand needles in Cata.
That time Blizzard sold a fucking mount and people were fine with it (and it was all downhill from there).
Pandaria.
Multiple grades for every raid 10/25/10H/25H
>>331682430
>1 step forward and 1 step back
And we know nobody gets too far like that.
>>331677445
And on top of that Sunwell was really only something for those that were already doing tier 6. They actually made something for those that had "beaten" the guy on the cover of the expansion and a catch up for those that hadn't yet. Actually not that bad of a patch to look back on compared to what we get now.
Then they did a shittier version of it again with Ruby Sanctum.
>>331681613
Being unable to navigate people you don't want to associate with to find people you do is the very definition of social ineptitude. You're basically saying "I have never been to a party."
>>331681914
Why are WoW players so obsessed with this shit?
>>331680267
If the melee healer meme makes it to live then I'm done with the game, the spec is an absolute shitshow on alpha.
>>331682648
>And we know nobody gets too far like that.
Exactly. And it's not like most DKs want the super mobility classes like warriors or rogues have either. Just something that unfucks us in situations where you need to move from X to Y in a PvE or PvP situation that isn't game breaking.
I get that the devs want to establish DKs as this threatening, slow moving harbinger of ice and doom. It's just that there has to be some compromise.
>>331667747
>2.5 GCD
It's slow and boring. Do not go from WoW to XIV you will be incredibly bored.
They sent out an invite wave today for the Alpha lads, check them emails
>>331669013
Because I don't want to play a fucking tank and ONE dps spec that every god damn person is going to be playing.
>>331683296
Play a different class then.
>>331678220
Are you kidding? They have never catered to raiders more than they have in WoD. It's doing terrible because MMO genre is terrible and dying.
>>331682648
Blizzard selling that mount was the equivalent of what Oblivion Horse Armor did to video games in general. Signaled the end of times.
>Pay subscription
>Add a cash shop
These options use to be "Choose one", but Blizzard actually managed to snag the most pathetic of customers that would pay for both.
>>331681183
AT LEAST YOU HAVE OPTIONS FOR MOBILITY
I WOULD COME OVER THERE TO SLAP YOUR SHIT, BUT MY ONE MOVEMENT ABILITY THAT GIVES ME 40% MOVE SPEED FOR 2 SECONDS ON AN OVER A MINUTE LONG COOLDOWN THAT PACIFIES ME AS WELL ISN'T READY YET.
Fuck, I miss Death's Advance and Unholy Presence.
>>331683447
WoD has three fucking raids, in what way is that catering to raiders?
>>331683296
Then play a different class, holy shit.
If you're a demon hunter you will be tanking or dpsing and you will not be getting a different way to dps. Deal, you goddam baby.
>>331683447
>two-tier raid expansion
>catering to raiders
>>331680870
No they fucking don't, the raids have gotten so much fucking worse after Siege of Orgrimmar.
>>331683447
MMO genre dies when Blizzard says it does. Once an MMO comes around that actually puts ANY amount of effort into themselves, MMOs will be saved.
Seriously, look at the MMOs surrounding WoW, INCLUDING WoW, NONE of these are spectacular games and there's a million obvious ways to improve them that aren't subjective.
The MMO genre was never good because laziness is part of the practice. Not once has one been released that actually had a sense of good game design revolving around it.
>>331683827
Highmaul was great.
Granted my whole guild stopped there because running the same shit at a higher difficulty for 5 months took it's toll.
It amazes me how being WORSE than EA has turned Blizzard into such a huge success.
Worse games, worse business practices, all while making bank every fucking quarter.
Where's Blizzard's golden turd award? They deserve one, fucking PvZ:GW2 is better than Overwatch.
>>331683996
Mechanically all three were great, but they all lacked in aesthetics and it was still just fucking three raids for the whole expansion.
>>331679545
Only people that have ever bitched about hunters are people that get rolled on by hunters. I've played every class since vanilla, mained a hunter. Still my favorite class in the game, we still get shit on by everyone who thinks playing one only requires a brain stem (which admittedly after WoD prune is true).
>>331684234
>Ogres
>Orcs and fire
>Orcs and GREEN fire
The Orcs are more annoying to me than the Twilights Hammer were in Cata, and they were fucking everywhere.
>>331684038
People forget simple fact: it's not blizzard, blizzard ceased to exist in the middle of WotLK. We are looking at Activision products ever since.
>>331683121
The juggernaut fantasy is fine and all, but there are three massive issues like that.
One: Juggernaut implies being unstoppable. Dks are slow, but they have no inherent immunity to any control effects like they should have, and they also don't have any real mechanisms to stick to a target. Warriors were something like that in vanilla. Might have problems catching you at times, but goddamn, if they caught you, you were smoked.
Two: Dks can be tanks, and tank mechanics may require mobility. The fact that Dks have no readily available movement options (Wraith Walk cannot be reliably used if you have any aggro, the Pacify effect will ruin you), means that all movement mechanics have to be beatable without them, meaning that Monks, Warriors and Demon Hunters will be bored out of their fucking minds.
Three: DEATH KNIGHTS WERE FUCKING MOUNTED HEROES, YET PALADINS, WHO HAVE ALWAYS BEEN ON FOOT UNITS GET A FUCKING IN COMBAT MOUNT? FUCK YOU BLIZZARD.
>>331684352
Orcs have this magical ability to suck the will of living out of the players.
"Challange mode" Dungeons will kill the little community the game had. They are doing the same fucking mistake Wildstar did with saying "Speedruns = Skill". This will make the community so incredibly bitter and turn both casuals and hardcore player off.
>>331684375
Blizzard changed their name, Runic Games.
>>331684470
Except that speed run Challenge mode dungeons are gone and dead, and the only "speed run" mechanic left is a very generous timer to make sure you don't just butt your head against a brickwall for hours and still get the full rewards.
>>331683984
>The MMO genre was never good
It was. Before WoW though. In fact it was thriving, then WoW came and literally fucked everything up.
>>331684267
Hunter attracts retards because it's well known as the easiest class to level, retards pull and fuck around and make a nuisance of themselves. That's why people complain about them.
>>331684434
They're going for the Wrath-style paladins, with Ashbringer and crusader-themed stuff everywhere.
In an expansion about demons.
>>331684627
>then WoW came and literally fucked everything up.
By massively increasing the size of the genre?
>>331684234
>Mechanically, all three were great
The boss is tanked around the center of the room. Raid members avoid AoE, sometimes stand inside the AoE to split or prevent the damage. Adds are tanked and cleaved down. When the boss pulls a dangerous ability, the tanks use a cooldown, and swap on a debuff.
Which boss from WoD did I just describe?
>>331683684
The raids had a shit load of bosses + wings. Just because they quit the expansion midway, doesn't mean it wasn't catering to raiders. There's literally nothing else to do in WoD but raid.
Orcs are literally everything wrong about WoW.
>>331684492
But Runic's games suck. Blizzard's games never sucked.
>>331662551
>Class pruning
Let me guess.
This means they're going to get rid of some classes?
Which ones?
>>331676673
I said a *full* cash shop. Right now it's just a handful of battle pets and mounts, the level boost, the WoW token, and those ugly ass transmog helms. There are so many more things they could monetize
>>331684761
By making it so every MMO prospect used their game as a cookie cutter for how all MMOs should be and ended up failing every single time trying to grab their audience.
>>331684817
All :D
>>331684817
About one third of them.
>>331684870
It means that each class will have about 3 buttons and a couple of cooldowns to use.
They are going to make it a Dota style game eventually.
>>331684761
Stagnating the industry by causing other game makers to try to copy WoW's success. And in terms of game mechanics WoW dumbed down and simplified everything. Vanilla was the casual's MMO back then.
>>331684761
Yeah, basically. With WoW showing that MMO's could have massive mainstream appeal, every hack company was out to try and get themselves a piece of that normie pie.
>>331684870
All of them.
>>331684817
Mannoroth
>>331670443
Well if you are playing a game based on cooperation and playing with others solo, you can only blame yourself.
>>331684817
Not Oregorger.
>>331667747
FFXIV is a mediocre WoW clone. Worth playing if you love FF but otherwise it's pretty shit.
There's a reason Square never talks about sub numbers.
How isBlack Desert Onlinefor trying to satisfy the need?
>>331684668
>Hunter attracts retards
I can say this about almost every class. Most paladins I played with in Wrath where fucking retards, most DK where retards or teens that thought it was cool edgy to role play one. Most druids I played with had no idea what the fuck they where doing. I still remember raiding Black Temple with a resto druid that insisted on staying in Bear form at all times only exiting to drop a heal when the tank was below 30%. Not to mention Mages that would teleport into adds then have the balls to blame it on someone else.
People are idiots. I'll admit that hunters tend to attract them more, but let's be real they don't have some kind of monopoly on shitty players.
>>331684969
Kargath, Butcher, Brackenspore, Tectus, Koragh, Gruul, Oregorger, parts of Blast Furnace, Hans und Franz, Flamebender, Kromog, Beastlord, Blackhand, Assault, Reaver, Council, Kormrok, Kilrogg, Gorefiend, Iskar, Tyrant, Fel Lord, Archimonde.
Mar'gok, Cho'gall, Tho'gar, Iron Maidens, Socrethar, Xhul'horac and Mannoroth are the exemptions.
>>331678909
yeah dude i'll enter my board game queue
>>331685260
Applies to phase 1, but not phase 2.
>>331685431
Absolute unpolished turd. Played for a week and realized there were no other weapon types for your classes, quit that shit so fast.
>>331685325
> Worth playing if you love FF
I never understood this, what's there to love about FF
The characters are different from game to game, the worlds are different, the battle systems are different, hell even the visual styling of the game is different.
What fucking common thread is there for someone to be a fan of Final Fantasy as a series
>>331662551
Homogenization killed the game in WotLK. BC you had certain professions that were required on certain classes, and your raid comp varied from fight to fight because each class offered something different. Yes we're forcing you to take up leatherworking and level it up before raid so you can be part of the drum rotation. If you don't like it you're not raiding. No we're not bringing 2 ele shamans. No we're not bringing multiple boomkins. Yo shitty hunter you have to respec for improved mark so our good hunters don't have to. Hunters you're on dispelling enrage duty since we don't want our rogues using shitty coatings. etc.
Then blizzard went baby mode and every class could do everything. The idea of having some content being inaccessible to babymode players should've been a thing forever. Once the new expac comes out make starter gear for the next raid tier available in the old shit that the good guilds had on farm anyway so the casuals can go explore it then or some shit.
>>331681501
battlegroup bgs
arena
resilience
>>331685648
Actually up untill Final Fantasy V and arguably VI the games were pretty much in the same setting, world, battle system and visual styling.
>>331681501
>>lfr makes casuals never bother to try raiding, so now we're stuck with black and white guilds that are either hard core as fuck or casual shitters
How is this change bad in any way
now you don't have casual shitters when you need to pug a last person.
>>331685760
Perfect TBC raiding comp
17 warlocks
5 shamans
2 tanks
>>331685431
Huge mess that is doing bad in Korea
>>331685432
Now you've got me thinking about who isn't retarded in this game.
Male disc priests are consistently the best and smartest players I've come across. What is it about that? Enhance shamans are a close second.
Dumbest people I've come across were hands down Paladins and Hunters.I play paladin
>>331686051
CURSE OF DOOM
OF
DOOM
>>331677416
not really, I mean they could make it so you'd upgrade those weapons into new expansion, a'la b&s
>>331684925
Just look at Rift after it went f2p if you want the perfect example of how to jew. Trion has that shit down to a science.
>>331685876
Yeah, but their releases were so weird and staggere.
>>331686106
You know what the popular classes are?
What truly amazes me are those people who stay subbed to this game for long periods of time.
How the fuck does someone even do that? Why not just sub for a month or two, do what there is to do, and then fuck off and go play other video games? I simply can't understand being that attached to WoW, or any MMO for that matter.
>will kill
>implying there's anything left to kill
This horse has been getting beaten on for so long there's just a hole in the ground.
>>331685760
Um Class comp is even more retarded now for mythic
Blackhand Comp;
Need 3 boomkins, 3 rogues no other melee
>>331686401
WoW tokens have a lot to do with it. Garrisons can make you enough to stay subbed indefinitely even with casual play.
>>331686658
US price: 36k
EU price: 85k
?????
>Windwalkers were the only fun spec through WoD
>Now they're pruning the fuck out of that too
God damnit.
>>331686824
It was too hard for most people.
So much for a varied playstyle that encouraged people to actually get good at the game.
>>331685760
Have you done a single mythic raid?
You NEED certain comps to do them. Every spot matters and they can't be wasted on 3 ret paladins.
>>331685437
Comparing to SoO
Immerseus
>solo tanked, healing burst and mobility of the entire raid determines kill time, rather than pure dps
>still a shit fight though
Protectors
>Council fight, can be solo tanked if the tank is a bad enough dude
>fairly regular fight outside of this
Norushen
>fight with a focus on personal responsibility, isolating players and forcing them into an ,admittedly too easy, trial to gain an advantage in the fight.
Sha of Pride
>fight that punishes mistake through the Pride mechanic, introducing more AoE to the fight
>straight forward fight outside of that, though
Galakras:
>Iron Assault but with an actual boss and actual threatening trash
Iron Juggernaut
>straight forward fight
Shamans
>allows for multiple strategies based on setup, in its base form is a straight up fight, but overwhelms the raid with a sheer mass of AoE so that even with the large area, panic causes wipes
Nazgrim
>very straight forward, but gets points for having the raid deal with the adds, not the tanks
>Malkorok
>fight focussed on environmental awareness and memory, sadly ruined by raid markers
>can be solo tanked, if the tank is a bad enough dude
Spoils
>raid is split in 2 groups
>kill time depends entirely on the tank's ability
>more pulls means a quicker, but harder fight, risk/reward management
Thok
>healer skill severely impacts the duration of phase 1 and dps uptime
>outside of that, straight forward fight
Blackfuse
10/10 fight
>belts
>shredders
>constantly changing set of weapons
>everything is blowing up
>fucking awesome
Paragons of the Klaxxi
>massive council fight against 9 bosses, each with an entirely new set of abilities
>present Paragons get empowered with each kill, eventually making even the nonthreatening ones lethal
>raid can use their abilities against them by siphoning their corpses
Garrosh
>can be solotanked
>challenge mode elements to keep boss energy low and prevent devastating abilities
>>331687064
Wtf is a mythic. I stopped playing this shit when I killed arthuswith the 5% buff
>>331687204
Epeen difficulty.
>>331686106
The way I see it:
Hunters - attract noobs, retards and people that just like to play by themselves.
Mages - attracts people who like to jerk off to DPS meters + rednecks/potheads
Warriors - attracts people with Buddha tier patience or the complete opposite.
Warlocks - attracts people that like to jerk off to DPS meters, be useful to the raid, enjoy being self sufficient.
Priest - attracts the most normal group of people, usually players that want to actually play that class. Occasionally attracts amoeba tier idiots that will only play Shadow and think they are good.
Druids - attracts middle aged women with kids, and potheads.
DK - copy paste warriors + include edge lords and people that think they are chads.
Monks - attracts furries and rainman tier healers.
Rogues - attracts people that like to be contrarians as nobody really mains a rogue.
Shaman - attracts mostly normal people and usually competent players. Occasionally attracts trolls and ninjas.
>>331687204
In Wrath it was
>Normal 10 < Normal 25 == Heroic 10 < Heroic 25
In Mists it was
>Raid Finder (25) < Flex < Normal (10/25) < Heroic (10/25)
In WoD/Legion it's
>Raid Finder (Flex) < Normal (Flex) < Heroic (Flex) < Mythic (20)
>>331687314
>Warriors - attracts people with Buddha tier patience
Played a warrior in Vanilla, recently tried doing the same on Nostalrius. I just don't have the patience for that anymore, for some reason that was so much easier to do 11 years ago.
Though I think actually having people to play with would make it easier.
>>331686106
>Male disc priests are consistently the best and smartest players I've come across.
Yeah they are pretty good too. As a hunter myself I can say even though hunter attracts the most retarded people but at the same time most of the best and dedicated players I know also play hunter.
>>331687447
wrath started with the usual formula of 10 man = normal, 25 man = heroic
>>331687314
>every class has negatives about its playerbase
>except Shamans
Wanna guess how I know what you play?I'm going on 11 years of being a huntard, I rolled that because the Dwarf with the bear in the first cinematic looked fucking awesome. Ive never once regretted my choice
>>331687314
>Monks - attracts furries and rainman tier healers.
I can attest to that, my friend plays Monk healer and he's fucking insanely good, beating all out other healers by far, then I tried it and was completely baffled, it's like you need ability to predict future to be even remotely effective as them. Personally I main lock and do love my teamplay despite occasional jerking to my skyreach DPS.
>>331687314
The worst people I've seen have been druids.
Hunters are retarded for sure, but they're such an easy class to play that nobody ever fucks them up. They always do decent DPS so it's hard to stay mad at them.
Druids however are massive faggots and usually always have the shittiest attitudes. I've ran into a lot of cool mages and rogues over the years for some reason. There was one mage who was extremely blunt about carrying the group, but who gives a shit when he was geared.
>>331687314
>rainman tier healer monks
This is the truest statement of all time. The good monk healers I've played with were fucking psychics.
>>331687708
You better still be using the same bear.
>>331687314
>Priests
Nah, in my experience Priests are almost ALWAYS furry Midwestern whale wives. Or slightly less commonly, furry Midwestern whale single mothers.
>>331667747
It's a great game, The aesthetic, the music, and the story are all really nice and blow WoW the fuck out in every aspect. If you play it, don't treat it like WoW where you skip all the quest dialogue and story. WoW had a shit story, but this game does not, and there is a rather large emphasis put on the story because it's something Final Fantasy became known for.
I don't know why you chose to ask this in a WoW thread. That's literally just asking for shitty retarded and bias responses because this thread is filled with butthurt WoW fanboys.
>>331687708
I main a hunter too actually, I just never really had bad experiences with Shaman. Ironically it's my least played class. They where really fucking broken in vanilla and therefore insufferable to encounter. I don't blame the players for that one though, that's all on Blizz and Metzen's Thrall boner.
>>331687314
Shamans attract competent players mostly because shamans haven't received class love in about 4 expansions and the class is middling at nearly all points of it's life/in every role.
The people who pick shaman are dedicated to the class because it does not reward players who don't know what they're doing.
I tried playing resto shaman as an alt in WoD and had a blast, but was average at best and didn't really want to put in the time to learn the class intricately. The actual shaman mains were just on a complete other level.
>>331688237
Are you for real man? XIV has terrible completely stock animu story that fails to deliver any interesting characters or twists whatsoever. Literally every time I thought there might be more to the character than meets the eye I was completely wrong and he turned out to be as deep as cardboard cutout.
>>331687314
You forgot Paladins. But that's okay, Blizzard already forgot about them too.
>>331688095
That was mostly post MoP when Pandaren could be Priests. Prior to that they where a-okay on my book. Most of the smartest guys/girls I've played with where Disc/Holy priests. That said, most Shadow priest I've encountered have been either incredibly lazy or incredibly stupid.
>>331688237
WoW players are constantly looking for something else to play because their game is shit.Little do they know that every other game is also shit. So they ask in hopes that they can escape THEIR shit for new shit
>>331688237
thanks, saved in the pasta folder
>>331663073
I'm not going to play Legion because I will probably get disappointed again but are they not making classes/soecs more distinguishable from each others again?
Like instead of having 3 hunter specs that's pretty much the same they're now actually more different? And classes seems to also have more uniqueness to them again.
>>331667747
Wow 2.0 but with more grind. The community is also worse by several orders of magnitude.
>>331687907
I've been MM for most of WoD, so he doesn't get as much love as he used to, But Thistle is still with me.I rolled NE to play with a friend who wanted to be a druid, because we couldn't figure out how to get from Kalimdor to EK. So I didn't fulfill my aspiration of being that dwarf entirely
>>331688562
kek, that was kinda my joke. I thought about adding them and going with the bubble hearth/ blood seal retards but I felt this would be more adequate.
>>331688562
Paladins - retards and competent people who are generally full of themselves/insufferable
Everyone can bitch all they want, but WoW only "fixes" shit that people saw as flaws. People bitched that MMO's were too grindy and easy, then they come out with WoW. Much easier in every aspect of past MMO's. People then bitched that they didn't get to raid, so then they made it easier. Then they bitched that it was STILL to hard, and they can't be arsed to find other people to raid with, so they cut down 40 to 25 to 10. Then they bitched they had to physically walk to raids/dungeons. So they teleport you to dungeons. It's your own damn faults for bitching about every god damn thing. Now the masses have spoken. They don't want an MMO. They want a dungeon team mode, with a open world lobby for their "toons" to chat with. So they could completely change the formula for WoW. Literally turn it into a Moba, and sales will continue.
Saying WoW is gonna die is stupid. It's like saying CoD is going to die as it breaks every sales record every year. The game could hemorrhage subscriptions, as long as they break sales goals when Legion comes out, then who gives a fuck?
>>331688670
Surv is now melee+pet
MM is now petless
BM has a pet.
>>331688549
>Are you for real man? XIV has terrible completely stock animu story that fails to deliver any interesting characters or twists whatsoever.
How to spot the person who didn't read anything and skipped through almost the entirety of it.
>Literally every time I thought there might be more to the character than meets the eye I was completely wrong and he turned out to be as deep as cardboard cutout.
Yeah right. I don't believe a damn thing. At best you skimmed through shit when it caught your easily fleeting attention. I'm sure you didn't do any of the side quests either. The characters get really well developed including ones you'd never think would show up again in side stories.
The game does a great job at fleshing out its world and making it seem like there are actually people living there.
>>331688767
>only fix flaws
>having multiple weapon models in the game was a flaw
Why do you only have 1 weapon in Legion, hm? That is fucking retarded.
>>331688569
>Little do they know that every other game is also shit.
Spotted the person that doesn't enjoy video games and probably has no friends too.
>>331687098
Stopped reading at
>solo tanked
>Immerseus
>>331688670
Yeah, surv hunts are now melee class, only one rogue spec will have stealth, while other two will have poisons and pistol respectively, demo locks now drag demon armies with them, holy paladins heal people by smashing them in their faces with mace and so on.
>>331688785
Dude, cmon, I liked the story for FFXIV but it was complete anime/JRPG bullshit just like the rest of their games.
It's okay to like anime bullshit, but don't say it's some eye opening experience to story.
>>331688859You don't.
>>331687708
>>331687314
Not the Anon, but It's took me several Characters before i realized i was wasting my time trying to find a Alliance Class that i would like back in Vanilla. I went with Tauren Shaman for the sake of War Stomp and having fun abilities to explore the world and be a true jack of all trade DPS.
I miss the times of Alterac Valley 1.0, healing/tanking if the moment needed it and actually using my Totems strategically.
Oh, and add Druids to furshits. I knew some that ensured to have every single races for Druids despite replaying the same shit
>>331688885
Nice projection there, buddy.
Go ahead, name an MMO that's actually good, I'm waiting.
And who plays an MMO that doesn't have friends? Projection is strong with you.
>>331689023
>you don't
But you do.
You get your artifact weapon and THATS IT. You can unlock skins for it, but you still only get one weapon for an an entire expac.
>>331688703
>played a paladin throughout all of late vanilla
>rerolled blood elf pally when tbc came out because my friends wanted to play on horde
>generally didn't say shit, just wanted to learn
>wotlk rolls around
>eventually become OT in a guild
>get constantly shafted in raids because I was playing a blood elf but never said anything because I didn't want to be one of THOSE paladins
>raid leader just stops inviting me and they solotank pretty much everything
>don't know what I did wrong and ask in the chat
>"You never goof around with us, you're no fun to have around and you make things awkward"
>>331663483
I did
then I quit
and then I fell for it again
and then I quit again
i'm about 60% on falling for it again but we'll see
>>331688895
was gonna say the same shit, that post reeks of "I started raiding two weeks before WoD launched."
>>331688987
>I liked the story for FFXIV but it was complete anime/JRPG bullshit just like the rest of their games.
Anime and JRPGs are not the same. Only the comic relief side quests could be consider like anime at all, but it's more in the sense that the humor is a very Japanese style.
As for it being like a JRPG, what the fuck do you expect? What does that even mean? JRPGs have great stories (not all of them, obviously) and why would you go into an MMO based off of a renowned JRPG series and not expect JRPG tropes?
>It's okay to like anime bullshit, but don't say it's some eye opening experience to story.
As opposed to what kind of story? Have you even done Binding Coil of Bahamut?
A lot of attention to small details went into FFXIV. Being a Final Fantasy fan helps you appreciate some more but even things like dialogue changing based on what you've done within the game are there.
>>331689132
>Nice projection there, buddy.
>Go ahead, name an MMO that's actually good, I'm waiting.
Fuck off retard. You're just going to shitpost back at whatever I give to you. Don't even say you wont because you've already said you think everything is shit. That's just flat out retarded to say.
>>331689263You get another one within the first five levels of the new content and your final one after going through a grind at the level cap. You are literally bitching about things you're uncertain about.
>>331689418
>Being a Final Fantasy fag helps you experience extreme delusion required to think it's anything other than mediocre at best.
>>331689576
>each spec gets one weapon
HOOOLY SHIT STOP THE PRESSES
>captcha had me type shit in
Have I fallen through a time vortex?
>>331689264
>Being antisocial in an MMO resulted in you not being included
Gee, I wonder why they did that.
Look, I'd LOVE to just be able to gather 19-24 other people at certain times of the week that I never had to communicate with to get real gear, but that's not how it works. You either become part of the hivemind of the group or you get shafted, it's the social aspect of these games.
>>331689646
>>Being a Final Fantasy fag helps you experience extreme delusion required to think it's anything other than mediocre at best.
Thanks you butthurt shitposting WoWfag.
>>331689712
>You get your artifact weapon and THATS IT.
You're retarded.
>>331689730
I wasn't being anti-social, I was just trying to not seem arrogant.
The guild was ultimately awful, couldn't progress in ICC until the 35% buff and fell apart against Magmaw in Cata.
>will
it already has
>>331662551
>>331663073
>>331663191
Since they added things every expansion, how does class pruning ruin things? Wouldn't it be roughly back at vanilla levels? wasn't that the "golden days"?
>>331689867
Exactly, you get an artifact weapon and thats as far as you go with it. You may get all ther OTHER artifact weapons, but you don't go from Sword A to Sword B as you progress in level/content.
You will only get your artifact, and thats it. And then the next expansion, we'll trade them in for questing greens after they scrap the system.
>>331689264
That's kind of an assholish thing of them to do, but I can see why. They wanted the people they raided with to be friendly/open to their group.
In my old guild we'd bench people who weren't good. We didn't give 2 shits if anybody liked one another because our loot system was mostly fair and everyone got their shit done.
I wouldn't even call most of us friends, we'd show up, do raids, get loot, be on our way. I wish we were still together simply because It felt like I was playing an MMO on single player.
I came, did my job, didn't have to communicate with anyone, and had the best gear the game had out. I don't really get why some guilds WANT you to be friendly. Who cares as long as you kill bosses with them?
>>331689932
>Wouldn't it be roughly back at vanilla levels? wasn't that the "golden days"?
It's less than vanilla.
>>331689846
MMORPGS are trash, all of them.
>>331690103
Nah, I think you're the one that's a trash person. Considering looking within yourself for a change.
>>331690086
Vanilla had marginally useful / situational abilities anyway.
I don't understand the complaint about removing skills. I've felt that WoW was bloated since Cataclysm.
There is nothing wrong with removing/consolidating skills. It sounds more like the problem is that what remains hasn't been altered to make each class still stand out.
>>331689932
As a mage in Vanilla, I could use fire arcane and frost spells. As a mage in WoD I can use, fire OR frost OR arcane spells depending on what spec I take.
>>331689924
>Fell apart to fucking MAGMAW
o im laffin
>>331690198
>S-stop saying my animemmo is dumb!
>You're dumb and a bad person!
>>331690075
Jesus, sounds like a terrible approach to guilds. All my guilds always had friendly atmosphere, banter, jokes and some even IRL meet-ups. I can't imagine how I would be able to go through an evening of wipes on a new boss without all the fun happening in ventrillo.
>>331686767
Why is this game dead in the US but alive in europe?
>>331690704
Some people are crazy anti-social, anon. And that anon's guild sounds like a dream to them.
Some people don't want to go through the theatrics to become friendly with internet people just to get better clothes on their character.
But I'm with you, I love my guild mates and we've become IRL friends over the years. It'd be weird to be in a group that didn't have some kind of camaraderie.
>>331675705
That image is wrong. Not 100% wrong, but that's a massive exaggeration of what you actually do.
>>331690695
I don't even watch anime but you're acting like a literal retard who's not old enough to be using this website according to the rules.
You also do genuinely seem like a piece of shit as a person.
>>331676529
Oh fuck they're making specializations special?
Fuck that's terrible.
>>331691049
>Abloobloobloo stop picking on me!
>Y-you're a meanie face, anti-bully ranger save me !
>>331691008
I'm not evne saying I can't understand antisocial people, I just can't imagine how WoW raiding can be fun without social aspect, wiping gets very aggravating and always makes people start blaming each other for not pulling their weight, without friendly atmosphere it's very easy for a guild to crumble over one bad raid and even social guilds aren't safe from it.
>>331691287
I genuinely hope for your sake that you're only pretending to be a huge retard, and are not actually one.
>>331691486
>Y-you're a dummy, you baka!
>Let me wallow in my delusion of being a real anime girl!
>>331662551
I've already explained to you that blizzard is trying to make the game simple enough to play on mobile devices, they're going to announce it at this year's blizzcon
>>331691690
You're really going all out with that shitposting.
>>331690704
Like 70% of the fun of raiding was the bantz. The moments when the local guild shitter screwed up some easy thing after s/he was chewed out about not screwing it up made me keep on going for as long as I did. No idea how these guilds that treat the game like a job even function tbqh.
