>shoots a ball
>ball doesn't roll
>>331554082
This is what the default GL should of been.
Its so much more effective at helping to defend a point when its being captured if you don't already have stickies placed on the point.
>>331554327
>demoman
>op
>>331554246
>should of
>>331554327
I love the ScoRes, but it needs a fucking buff.
Maybe make the sticky outlines flash when an enemy is nearby or give me more max bombs out
it doesn't shoot balls though
>>331554447
The best class in the game
>>331554573
?
>>331554529
Or they could just let you airburst it.
>>331554327
Demo is a tricky class since not a lot of players use it correctly. Any class in TF2 becomes extremly effective if you use them in certain ways.
Like Demo's for example seem to be the most effective when you camp with them and hang back with stickies on the point or guards an alternate path with stickies in the doorway to prevent people from going around.
Demo's should also try and serve as the last line of defense for a point in case a sentry goes down and a push is being made. (sentries being the 2nd to last line of defense) Stickies will destroy an over healed heavy easily and any class with ease. The perfection of the gameplay design gets better when you realize that the heavier classes are slower so hitting them with direct grenade shots is easier, and the explosions help deal damage on nearby enemies that must be on the point to cap it.
Capture point is really the best way to play TF2, it really allows each class to feel handy in its own great way and lives up to the whole "offense, defense, support" class roles.
TF2 is one of the best games in a design aspect that worked surprisingly well. All these updates and hat changes make me miss the old fashioned original TF2 on release.
>>331555824
>Sniper
>Scout with speed AND a double jump in a shooter that doesn't rely on twitch outside of vs. Scouts + Snipers
They could have done a little bit better.
>>331554750
That first idea is just a crutch and the other wouldn't help at all. The problem with demoman alts is that the default sticky launcher is just SO GOOD. straying from it in anyway is always going to be worse. Now we're in so deep properly nerfing default sticky causes a fucking riot.
Why are dedicated servers so shit now and why does no one join a vanilla server when there is one up. I know there's enough people out there who miss vanilla to fill a server.
>>331557019
>no one is ever on partyvan
What the fuck happened?
>>331557019
I stopped caring for vanilla but now there's new maps I might.
However I'm really waiting on competitive, and to have it so it doesn't fucking fail to connect right away.
If there's only one thing that totally bored me and pissed me off, it was people randomly coming, going and stacking multiple of a class because who cares?
People being forced into a team till the end can go a long way to fix that. Not like it's a long game like Dota.
Is the explosive radius that big of a deal? It sounds scary on paper but i feel like it works better in general. Enemies dont tend to fly too far away to reliably hit a normal roller so i can actually 2 shot them more often with this.
Although at the same time getting gud with the original launcher just gives me full benefits.
>>331556715
That's because sticky traps and the shields are just gimmicks. People with at least two brain cells to rub together are not going to keep running into the same sticky traps over and over. Being able to throw the damage directly at the enemy is a very important part of staying relevant.
It's not a problem of stickies being op, but the other weapons just being bad.
>>331557260
Was on there a few nights ago. There were only 4 of us.
>>331556534
No see thats the genius of the game design.
Heavies at one point were regarded as the most brutal class in terms of damage and damage range, they have the most weaknesses such as a slow speed, which makes them easier to headshot and backstab and land shots on (Also the wider body frame of heavy). But heavies had the most health to make up for those weaknesses against the more versatile classes. Also you will notice that the minigun makes a loud noise which drowns out the cloaking sounds spy make, which makes heavies easy prey to spy's.
You'll also take notice that the heavy is able to deal constant damage without the need to reload their weapons, similar to the pyro where they can just keep up constant damage. Compared to other classes like solly, demo's and scouts that deal damage more in bursts and suffer from needing to reload, the heavy is just there dealing constant damage and actually can deal that constant damage at a range where in the game design there is a lot of damage fall off but the minigun is still somewhat effective using at a range because of the constant fire damage which in TF2 is pretty helpful since the game does depend a lot on fall off damage which actually gives the sniper some really effective use, soilders can deal damage from a distance but the fall off and the speed of the rockets make dodging them easy.
Yeah the game may not be perfectly balanced but the way everything is designed was very well done.
>>331557675
The explosion damage isn't smaller, its just that the explosions deal less damage, which makes sense since the weapon is pretty effective on how accurate of a location you can make the grenades explode.
>>331554246
Iron Bomber is only better in wide open areas or when using the stickyjumper. Rollers are great when you learn how to use them.
>>331554529
All SR needs is a clip the size of the amount of stickies you can have out. Having to fully reload to finish laying is unacceptable, especially considering how slow they are to detonate.
>>331557979
>not going to keep running into sticky traps twice
If your playing capture point just having stickies on the point causes the opposing team to falter (unless someone is a team player and gets on the point of purpose just to make the demo waste his stickies on a scout, but no one really does that because they value there virtual life more then the objective) and makes a type of small stalemate situation and enables your team to start spawning back and create a stronger defense until you can maybe make a push for there point.
>>331558317
I can agree that rollers are much more effective for offense since whenever I use them on retreating enemies they literally walk right into them trying to get away, rollers can help on corners and stuff also and maybe roll under sentries and destroy them.
Its interesting to see that soldiers and demo's can both be played in offensive and defensive ways while both are classes that can sticky/rocket jump in similar fashions, soldiers are nice for defense with a decent amount of health and great for attacking multiple people on the point with rockets, while demo's can sticky bomb sentries and kill them in one right click.
I still hate that Valve pussied out and ran back that Demonerf
>Players use a blatantly defensive weapon on a defensive class in an offensive way
>Valve makes it so you need to use stickies as traps and not just better pipebombs
>Demoniggers bitch and moan and refuse to adapt until Valve undoes it.
>>331554246
>should of been.
Back to Facebook with you, millennial.
>>331554327
There's nothing overpowered about Iron Bomber, it has less blast radius in addition to being lower ranged than the Grenade Launcher because of its lack of rollers. It's a situational sidegrade.
>>331559060
That's great and all, but why not just use normal stickies for that situation? That way after you hold last you can burst them in peoples faces for easy damage and push power.
>>331559281
its was a bad way to do it that just made the thing wholly ineffective rather than properly restricting its utility
also they didnt buff pipes at the same time so demo was kinda shit as a whole
i mean "revert everything and pass out a smaller token nerf instead" wasnt the right way to respond to it either but its understandable why they did
>>331559281
I liked the idea that valve was presenting to make stickies be used defensively.
I had an idea where they just do some kind of damage multiplier where when M2 is pressed stickies of course explode and then it calculates how many stickies radius reach an enemy like if its only 1 sticky it deals 10 damage, but if 2 sticky explosions reach a player then the damage gets ramped up to 50 or something and just work it from there. Have some kind of sticky count check deal predetermined damage I guess.
So even if they spammed sticky 1 and exploded it the damage would suck, so it becomes more apparent you would want stickies in groups for them to be effective in terms of damage.
It was just an idea though.
>>331555824
>All these updates and hat changes make me miss the old fashioned original TF2 on release.
Sure Valve has filled the game with a load of crap, but you're wearing nostalgia goggles.
>Players would randomly turn into Scouts in T-pose all the damn time
>Soldier had 36 primary ammo, could shoot explosions through thin walls and had pissy little rocket jumps that hardly matched TFC at all
>Pyro had no airblast and the stock primary had more damage to compensate, so it was basically Phlogistinator all the time; it was hardcountered by 3 classes but could also burn through walls and set teammates on fire by swapping to spectate
>Pre-nerfs sticky launcher, plus 30 primary ammo
>Heavy took ten years to spin up and spin down but did a bajillion damage
>had to hold down medigun m1 to heal, no lock-on option, also med only had 1hp/sec regen
>Sniper would never shut the fuck up during killing sprees
>Spy had none of the cloak bonuses he has now, but facestabs were even MORE common
>bugs bugsbusgbusbgusbubsubg
>Hope you fucking like Dustbowl and Hydro all day every day
>>331559545
You raise a good point anon.
But of course my reasoning is entirely gameplay situational, Like if you just died and lost your stickies so your rushing back to the point since its getting captured, the weakness of the stickies is that they get destroy when you die, the effects that the iron bombers grenades will still go off even after you die is I guess the advantage of them. So if you start trying to shoot stickies on a point to try and stop the cap you could get sniped or crocketed before you have a chance to use those stickies. While in the situation with the iron bomber you shoot the grenades and they might deal some decent damage to the enemy team trying to cap which could be the saving grace for your teamates trying to clear it.
Thats the weakness of the stickies, that you gotta be alive to set them off.
>>331560858
If your team got wiped and the point has a x4 or higher cap rate then you really shouldn't be engaging on all those people alone. The point is practically gone and you deal a lot of damage as demo, damage that will be lost to your team if you die trying to fight a impossible battle. Best to just try and hold the next point and let them have that one.
>>331560030
>I liked the idea that valve was presenting to make stickies be used defensively
See, this is a bad idea. I used to think the same as you and comp players would always scoff at me saying that and never explain why, but I finally got one to actually argue it out with me, and he convinced me.
Demo is much, much better off now than if the love and war nerf had gone through, because TF2 is not meant to be a defensive game, it's meant to be an offensive game, based on its Quake mod roots.
When you have more good defensive tools than you have offensive tools in a game, it becomes easier to defend than it does to attack, and that means attackers become extremely hesitant to push if they know they're going to get fucked trying. And that leads to a whole lot of waiting around.
Currently, Demoman is a generalist. He's good both defensively and offensively. Same goes for Spy and Medic.
Pyro is defensive (stalls pushes and attacks with airblast), Heavy is defensive, Sniper is defensive, Engineer is defensive. Soldier and Scout work best as attackers.
And that means in Highlander, when both teams have all 9 classes, modes like 5CP don't actually work, because both teams have more defensive classes than offensive classes. So last points become really easy to hold when their Engineer can set up a level 3 Sentry with a Pyro and Heavy nearby defending it, and stickytraps around all the entrances.
Making Demoman's stickybombs a better defensive tool stacks the odds even harder against attackers in even game modes, and thus, it slows down the game. And that's why it's a poor idea to make them any worse at offense.
I'm happy with the nerf Valve went with. It balanced Demo so now his intended counter, Scout, can actually counter him.
>>331557260
Mike happened.
I've heard the IB has a deceptively bigger hitbox than it appears, but I just like the sound it makes since they took a shit on the LnL.
>>331561558
This is why engie should be removed from the game.
>>331559281
The main problem with nerfing demoman is that an offense-focused, objective pushing demoman has become an integral part of the Rock-Paper-Scissors game play. If you nerf demoman suddenly sentry nests and heavies become much harder to take care of. You create a power vacuum that needs to be filled. You can't just nerf demoman, you need to do a sweeping rebalance that Valve is deathly afraid of for fear of alienating players.
Unfortunately, the big reason that this is such a problem is that people, namely casual players, have become very singular minded in their TF2 gameplay. If one class alone can't counter a problem, suddenly it's huge. Teamwork is secondary and in many cases impossible.
Kinda makes me wish for TF3.
>>331559472
You're a millennial too, smartass.
>>331561867
I wish they would release a Strange variant of it so I could get it and name it Golf ball dispenser for my DemoGolfer loudout.
>>331562201
No, I don't think he should.
Him slowing down the game with Sentries is more than made up for by teleporters and dispensers making the game flow quicker for everyone else, and a Sentry provides a focal point which encourages teamwork to destroy.
Engineer is also an extremely important counter to Scout. In Quakeworld Team Fortress back in the 1990s, before they had the Engineer class, the main strategy was to get a fuckload of Scouts and run them at the flag in staggered groups, and this was really fucking boring. That's why they decided to add engie.
Engineer is part of a scissors paper rock triangle. Demo's slow-moving, hard hitting projectiles fuck up Engineer's stationary buildings. Engineer's stationary aimbots prevent hyperactive double-cap-rate Scouts from zerg rushing every objective. And Scouts' high movement speed allows them to dodge Demos' slow moving projectiles while gunning them down.
On top of all this, 1) he caters to people who have shit aim or like strategy and still want to play and contribute to TF2's community, and 2) people buy hats for him and Valve isn't going to remove him as such.
It's fine to have SOME defensive elements in the game, just as long as they don't outweigh the offensive elements.
