What's up with all the meta-narrative games "about games" these days?
>>323958381
>These days
As of late, none. Stanley Parable is 2 and a half years old.
Which reminds me... replay time.
>>323958539
He recently released a new pretentious simulator called The Beginners Guide
>>323958715
Beginner's Guide is less on "about games" and more about the people tied to them, to be fair. Well, "people"
You tried Dr. Langeskov, the mansion heist, and the tiger or whatever it's called yet? Cut little thing, same guy.
>>323958539
>>323958539
It's literally no better than gone home. Please off yourself
It's an easy way to get people to think your game is better than it actually is.
What games other than The Stanley Parable?
Two, why should it matter if they're using gameplay to affect story, theme, and atmosphere? Final Fantasy or Call of Duty have never used gameplay in a meaningful or creative way, despite the fact that games are about interactivity.
The Stanley Parable made gameplay important again to the general audience.
>>323958836
How is this game "about games?" Yes, there's some jokes directed at broad RPG mechanics and sometimes specific games, but the game isn't about games. It's about friendship.
>>323958539
fuck I read Stanley parable 2 is half a year old and got all exited. Oh well beginner guide was good.
>>323958381
because there hasn't been a viable way for people who like games to make games about games in resent times, even before that there where games that where references to other games or had references to other games in them. obviously.
/thread over. go to bed.
>>323959321
>because there hasn't been a viable way for people who like games to make games about games
Yeah people back then were clamouring for a game where you walk around and listen to a narrator talk about broad game desigb
>>323958715
>simulator
Technically it simulates walking around in source levels. But is it simulation, if that's just what you do?
All different types of mediums do it, there is music about music, novels about novels etc
>>323959604
But why did so much pop up recently.
>>323958715
>pretentious
>>323959592They weren't, but it was surprisingly fun to just walk around and listen, like a visual novel with legs.
>>323959687
Because being self-referential is easy and people think that self-referential media is deeper for "having a message".
In the end it's like the whole "ironic shitposting is still shitposting"-thing though.
>>323959687
It's called a trend. Like when a bunch of Demon's Souls rip-offs started coming out. Or a bunch of failed shooters like The Conduit and Haze.
Can you even name five of these "meta-games"?
2 more years until I can get the don't play for 5 years achievement
>>323960148
If a game doesn't have a message, it is usually a time-wasting, repetitive game. See; Mario, Dota, Zelda, Halo, Uncharted, etc
>>323960220You didn't just change your computer's clock?
>>323959183
so its basically my little pony
figured
>>323959727
If this were a PS4 exclusive (or Xbone too I guess) it would have not been liked and shitposted to death
>>323959687
Name 3.
>>323960275
This is what pretentious tards actually believe
>>323960448
To each their own. I liked it and Antichamber. 2 of my favorite purchases.
>>323960335
>Being a casual
What's not to get? Games are evolving, people are trying new things.
>>323959695
it was though, it was all made up in an attempt to be deep
>>323960801
>it was all made up
Have you heard of stories before?
You do know that video games, more often than not, are made up.
>>323960275
>it is usually a time-wasting, repetitive game. See; Mario, Dota, Zelda, Halo, Uncharted, etc
Tell me, did you have more fun walking through an office building in Stanley's Parable or navigating obstacles in Super Mario?
A game doesn't always need a message and not having a message doesn't make a game "time-wasting".
In the end it's all about the gameplay and fun.
Having a "message" doesn't excuse not having gameplay, especially not if the message is:
>Look we are so clever, we make a game about how games work
>>323958381
>all the
name one besides the stanley parable
>>323960148
That's quite an ironic post since no one likes anime unironically.
>>323960561
Typical gamer, totally unconscious of the art-world.
>>323960490
That Dragon, Cancer
Beyond Eyes
Beginners Guide
Well you see, when something becomes such a big force in a modern civilized culture, you have to take the medium and deconstruct it to learn some neat things about how we enjoy them and what it means that we enjoy them. It's been done since the beginning of human history. Pretty normal, you'll probably survive.
>>323961003
Having to choose between the left door and the right door is more of a gameplay choice and enjoyment than the ENTIRE MARIO FRANCHISE.
>>323958381
It's just code monkeys trying to create art. It'll pass eventually.
>>323961085
Pony Island
>>323961191
>>323961132
How long before video game dadaism?
Lazy ass writers from the millenial gen.
These people will teach your kids about how great bayformers and being a collosal faggot was.
>>323961132
>no talent fags learn how to cannibalize observations to cover how much of no talent fags they are
>>323961132
Self referential pieces always feel like a joke you already know the punchline too. You can never say anything that the observer doesn't already know.
Eh, meta critique of film was being made in the silent era. Games are far past due, though this could be attributed to a less mature fanbase.
I don't see why people get so mad at walking simulators. $10 experiences are barely in the same medium as $60 AAA games, why the fuck can't both exist? In fact, they do, and both larger AAA titles and more traditional independent'smaller productions have seen zero impact on sales from $10 "walking simulators" like Dear Esther or The Stanley Parable. I mean, how often do you hear of someone who only buys these types of games? The game "tumblr reddit meme game lets play kikes" who purchase these gaqmes are the exact same people playing every obscure Grand Strategy game you love.
>>323958381
You posed the wrong image OP
>>323961592
I think every once in awhile you can. On the whole, no, it's true that we already understand most of the limitations and references to video games, but sometimes the lucidity or specific phrasing of an observation can hit you a certain way that it provokes thought, or at least a sensible chuckle.
>>323958381
Hey, at least Drakengard 3 was pretty good for being a parody of fantasy rpgs. Most meta games do suck though
i pretty much dislike any game with self-referential humor.
>Wonderful 101
>kid Icarus: Uprising
>Evoland
>Undertale
>Fez
>Stanley Parable
>moments from The Walking dead
I don't even want to get into the gameplay if every other second is listening to some 4th wall meme humor. I wanted to make an exception for Undertale, but then I remember that the meta humor is FAR from its only flaw.
We need games to be games again, not smart alec wise cracking kids trying to cash in on their college degrees.
>>323959183
Undertale is still meta as fuck
in a kinda different way from all these other games but the save/load thing is pretty universal to all games
>>323960448
oh no. are you seriously saying my likes would not have lined up whit what slash vee slash likes? shit, I would surely have to commit zoduku for such a transgression!
Fuck. Being (you) must suck if you actually base your likes of what /v/ says you can like
>>323959687
Because until three years ago games were only for children and autistic adults.
>>323961937
>RTS genre is for children and autistic adults.
Eh, I guess the latter, but not the former.
>>323960626
good man.
heres a (you) and a reaction face
>>323960801
>man all these books are fucking terrible, they're all made up in an attempt to be deep
>>323961791
>Says they dislike undertale
>posts temmy
Its like pottery
>>323961937
now its only for pretentious bloggers and frat bros
what progress
>>323961627
Because they get lauded as being some super important milestone in the history of video games, instead of the $10 dollar fuck around they're meant to be.
Is Stanley Parable worth playing?
>>323962290
It's the best walking simulator.
>>323962239
What, I can't like images from the game? Nowhere does it say that posting an image means that I like it.
>>323962365
How's the story and narrative? It looks kinda cool.
>>323961427
id say there's already allot of those. like the Sonic Dreams Collection or Bubsy Visits the James Turrell Retrospective from the same people, but still.
>>323961627
>walking simulator
>walk faster than the narrative
>don't get to hear the whole story because keep accidentally triggering the next part of dialogue or something loud keeps happening
>>323962268
I can't fucking comprehend resenting a game over some faggot retard's perceived reaction to it.
>>323962463
but Temmy and Sans are the most forced self referential humor in the game...
>>323962465
When I say it's the best walking simulator, I don't mean that it has the best walking.
>>323961774
The problem is everyone I see, I see working better if they were in a "real game". Let's say you want to buck the tradition of their always being a good ending to achieve. In a self referential game all punch you could get is lost because you're prepared for it. In a "real game" you don't see it coming.I realized half way through typing this I just described mass effect 3, but fuck it let's post anyway
>>323962568
It's a walking simulator, not a running simulator.
>>323962463
Why do use undertale renditions of easy to fin original reaction images then?
>>323962650
>is everyone I see
*everything
>>323962635
Temmy might be, but Sans is far from it. He never uses memes, and is more of a pun kind of guy.
>inb4 bad time
That's not a meme. Try again.
>>323962639
So should I just watch a walkthrough of it?
>>323961791
You must be the coolest kid in your entire high school, faggot.
>>323962821
No. The narrative only works because it riffs off the player's expectations.
>>323962268
>not liking something because someone tells you to like it
I bet you still don't eat your vegetables
The adventure line ending is the best ending
>>323962465
There's no real story to it.
The game is basically making fun of game development trends and the illusion of choice that is inherent with AAA games.
Play the original sourcemod first, if you like that, consider getting the full game on a sale.
>>323962592
True but it's getting problematic when games like these win awards and stuff like that because then a trend will be spawned.
There's bound to come a AAA-reaction to games like Undertale and Stanley's Parable and then we'll get a new genre of "ironic"-games that think that they are funny but end up doing the stuff that they make fun of.
>>323958381
social commentary on today's gaming
>>323962768
meme is another word for joke
get with the times gramps
anyways Sans whole character is trite as fuck so it doesn't really matter
Temmy is annoying but at least somewhat novel
>>323962821
no, you should walkaroundit
>>323963073
>not the sv_cheats 1 ending
>not the window ending
Shit taste.
>>323962714
>implying it isn't fun to make your own images
Some sperg made this for me on /vg/, for example. I get alot of use out of it.
>>323963073
>he hasn't seen the Broom Closet ending
>>323963242
Huh, okay. What game is that though?
>>323962714
Here's the only acceptable vidya-edit of this image
>>323963092
Bulletstorm already exists
>>323962821
you could but it would loose allot of impact. maybe even all of it.
>>323963372
Steel Strider.Recommended to me, and I think it's pretty good.
>>323962821
Why not? As long as there's no commentary you're pretty much guaranteed to get the same experience as if you'd play it yourself since 99% of the game's enjoyment comes from the audio.
As a bonus you don't even support this shit trend.
>>323963073
>he didn't have the endurance for the broom closet ending.
walking simulator n00b. why not just try your local park instead.
>>323959018
its was a fun ride but I wouldnt say it had great gameplay
>>323963092
I think it's fucking LUDICROUS to base your reaction to something off of whether or not is may possibly under some circumstances kind of create may sort of vague AAA titles that kind of do something similar and are a bit ironic and maybe in that sense similar to these walking simulator games. Come the fuck on, seriously?
>>323963259
>>323963680
Fuck YOU I waited there for so long
>>323962821
It's funny because it absolutely requires that you play it, yet people say it has "no gameplay."
>>323963849
That is the broom closet ending, though.
>>323963779
Like I said I don't blame the games for their impact on the industry. It's only a very dangerous trend because being self-referential is a cheap scapegoat for having no gameplay and being shitty at writing.
>>323961434
bayformers was a good action kids movie though
>>323964018
another one who thinks it ends there. I bet you got your dick caught in a Fingerbox.
>>323963073
>not phone ending
feels incarnate
>>323960148
You're sorta on the right lines, it's more that everything is self-referential and people care more about familiarity than genuine drama.
Because post-modernism.
>>323964208
It's not like games need a scapegoat for that.
>>323961427
Video games would have to figure out duchamp first, and they're nowhere near that.
But even without that, the message of dada is inherently incompatible with games because all the focus on games is stuck firmly on capitalistic interests, you'd have to find a AAA studio that wasn't interested in making money for it to kick off.
>>323964334
It's an old meme but it checks out.
Movies being self-referential lead to tons of movies like this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RY-zJtYYolo
Do you really wanna play the "Meet the Spartans" of video games in the future?
>>323964398
>Because post-modernism.
I miss genuine feelings
>>323964710
That's less self-referentials and more "LOL POP CULTURE AMIRITE GUYS?"
Once we get a game that just spews memes and pop culture references, that's when we hit the lowest point video games can get.
>>323964208
Films don't worry about this, though. Once every few years some significant pomo film comes out, but in general nobody cares. It was played out in Bunuel's time. I promise you, your games are safe. Just enjoy the walking simulators if you can, or if you do.
>>323964747
Pomo isn't and hasn't ever been truly mainstream. Most people don't live their life this way. Cynicism, sure. Post modern nihilism? No.
>>323964747
Fuck off to reddit or tumblr then.
>>323964880
World of Warcraft and Borderlands.
>>323964920
Reddit is the place where people pretend to have certain feelings for karma and e-cred.
>>323965013
Don't fucking remind me.I don't always mind when games reference shit, but mainly when it's like that one H*R reference in WoW, or the monty python references in BI/Obsidian FalloutsIt's when it's incessant and neverending and they just throw it in "because it's popular" rather than because it's something they like.
>>323958381
>mfw playing Dr. Langeskov
>>323965195
I haven't played WoW in a long time, but by Cata almost every zone was some sort of pop culture reference and it was like 50% of the quests. WOTLK was bad, but at least a lot of it was HP Lovecraft stuff and not all of it was humorous.
>>323964710
That's true, and movies have only been doing that recently, not since the 80s (Hot shots) 70s (national lampoon) 40s (Mr Hope basically invented this as far as I can fucking tell. Probably not though. I bet marx et al did, or someone like that)
I can't think of any objectively good films that do it either, like Blazing saddles. I can think of plenty of shit films that did it, like spaceballs.
I'm not joking about the last one, spaceballs is terrible. Seriously though I'm not even in this thread, I just popped by because its very frustrating to see how we all fall for the "modern times are terrible" trap. Not just /v/ either, I mean all of humanity.
I'm not saying its great either, I'm just saying that before you assume something is a recent concept because of a magic contemporary plague: it might not be, do your research!
just kidding check my six.
Take KlK as an example:
>tried doing commentary on anime as a medium today
>ended up doing the same shit that they made fun of
>>323965469
Yeah, they started forcing it hard in Cata, don't know about MoP onward though.
I guess it just depends on the context and how frequently they use it, really.
>>323965013
>Reddit is the place where people pretend to have certain feelings for karma and e-cred.
Yeah, as opposed to here where we're known for our heartfelt sincerity.
>>323965592
Inferno Cop and OPM are both better parodies of shounen anime.KLK at least has some fun characters to go through the series with. It's enjoyable in that regard at least.
>>323964213
Lel
Look at this guy for example. Look at him and laugh.
>>323965565
I never said that it's only happening recently, I just took a recent example anon. I get your point and that really is a problem today though.
What does your post tell us though? There have been self-referential movies for a long time now and the majority of them is utter horseshit.
I'd rather have a self-referential witty game than some fucking mindless filler sequel (see: EVERY AAA game in the last five years).
>>323966001
>witty
more like shitty
>>323964747
Get out of here with your sincerity you hack. You'll never be DeLillo. Hang yourself.
Hotline Miami is another self-referential game, but no one complains about that.
>>323965195
you know that reminds me of the weird ass reference to Johnny Five-Aces in new vegas.it also reminds me of the skeleton inside the fridge, calling out how ridiculous the Indiana Jones movie was and how in fo4 an entire quest is based around it actually working. a decline in writing from clumsy to garbage.
>>323966571
>an entire quest is based on it actually working
this is a joke right?
>>323964747
you mean escapism
all media should recognize itself as flashing lights and sounds
>>323966001
>I'd rather eat cardboard than feces!
Yeah we all would, does that make cardboard food?
>>323965934
I accept that this is moving the goalposts on your point a bit so don't worry too much, but its equally frustrating that people place finite limits on the infinite.
Yes, there are bad self-referential films. They're not all bad. Some are very good. Some future ones might be very good or very bad.
Let's be very harsh and give the good to bad ratio of films 1:9999, so every 10,000 films 9999 are shitty, 1 is great. This isn't the actual case, but it's a good example of showing how the next part of this argument stands no matter what the ratio is.
You are not compelled to watch bad films, there are lots of ways to know which films are shit before you even need watch them. You are capable of discarding terrible films and watching only the good ones.
So what is the problem with lots of shit films? Do you believe there is some kind of finite amount of films in humanity, and if we waste our film on shit films, we'll have to just do shadow puppets or something to show the good ones?
Substitute "film" for "video games" and it essentially remains the same argument. Yes of course, you could say "well if all the actors/devs are wasting their time making shit films/games there won't be any to make the good films/games" but every year somehow good films and great video games manage to make it out. Every single year. If it stops, it won't be because we hit some kind of magical arbitrary limit.
>>323958715
It's just not fun like the Stanley Parable. All the coins and pretzels get you shitty little achievements that don't work half the time.
Like, the phone rings and your like "oh, maybe I can choose to answer it or not" nope, you just slam it down. Everytime. Or that giant door in the tiger room, you just LOOK in AW at a bunch of items in a STACK
>>323965365
thank you for showing me that. i had no idea that existed.
>>323962131
I mean that's kind of simplifying the matter, you can tell when a narrative is being insincere.
>>323967004
I wouldn't say that the Beginner's Guide is insincere. I think it's mostly Davey just saying to his fans "guys please fucking stop i'm not making these games with some sort of deeper meaning stop looking for it jesus christ"
>>323966939
Wait, shit I'm thinking of the other free one with the stupidly long title.
>>323966914
>every year somehow good films and great video games manage to make it out
>>323965195
>Uldum
>egyptian themed
>great potential for lore
>awesome design in every aesthetic aspect, from mobs to buildings to the environment
>it turns out to be literally Indiana Jones References: The Zone
>>323966939
that's the wrong game.
same dev though, or atleast someone who also worked on the stanley parable.
not as good as stanley or beginner's guide, but it's free and they probably didn't work too hard on it
>>323965930
yes look at him with some part of his childish sense of wonder intact, and lets laugh sarcasticly like the miserable adults we are. ha! ha! ha!
>>323967497
>You've reached a point where you laugh at the observation of cynicism from the cynical because you've got like eight more layers of cynicism.
>That was 8 years ago.
>That feel when I can't even blink without it being a withering judgement on the essence of modern mortality in the face of the singularity.
This entire post is actually a complex metaphor for Chinese fascism.
>>323966653
nope. an entire side quest based on finding a goulified child in a refrigerator. in all its shiny glorious splendour
>>323967748
I am saving this (you) it is that precious to me
>>323962768
Self referential humor is a joke in which the humor comes from the actors or the joke being self aware, not memes.
Sans definitely pulls a lot of that. For example, when he does stuff like "take shortcuts" or hides you with the conveniently shaped lamp.
ITT: Complaining about art commenting on the medium of art
That's... kind of what art is for. That's post-modernism. It's either about art, or life. And those are kind of the same thing -- the human experience.
Is it not the duty of art to treat the informed viewer as if he is able to predict trends and recognize patterns, then play off of those predictions and stereotypes and deconstruct them?
Isn't it a good thing to be able to more thoughtfully digest our media instead of just rereading the same stories in different masks over and over again?
I firmly believe if we need anything, it is to consume our media more mindfully. Having a relationship directly with the viewer (or player) is one way of facilitating that.
Write meta-narratives off as a fad, but trends in creative works occur for a reason.
>>323970446
>video games are art
>>323970446
Too late I already deliberately killed the thread.
>>323959183
The game-world is stuck in a time loop where each iteration is a play-through, saving/loading affects the timeline and classic rpg staples such as lv and exp are turned on its head. It's a parody of a game, much like Stanley Parable.
>>323958381
I wish people who can't handle narrative in vidya would just fuck off to some other board. There's no point to playing a vidya game with no story, never has been and never will be. Even the most basic bitch quarter gobblers from the 80s had stories.
>>323962290
Yes, just do it, is worth a few hours. Try to be as thorough as possible, it rewards curiosity.
>>323970782
That's like saying movies aren't art because all you watch is Michael Bay shitflicks.
If you don't think video games are art, you've been playing the wrong games and it's no one's fault but your own you filthy peasant.
is this thread still about the stanley parable?
If you open the door to this room but wont enter, the "cutscene" that eventually ends the gameplay never starts.
You can wait for the timer to hit past 59:59:99 and it will go on with 60:00:00 and continue to 61:00:00 and so on. After 99:59:99 it randomly goes back to 40:00:00... and after reaching 99:59:99 again it goes back to something other than it did before if I remember correctly.
secret messages?
>>323970446
I agree with ya m8. Honestly there's nothing wrong with having both types of games too. Both ones whose main goal is to entertain and ones that try to do something different.
>>323971609
I wish people who can't handle gameplay in vidya would just fuck off to some other board. There's no point to playing a vidya game with no interactivity, never has been and never will be. Even the most basic bitch choose your adventure books from the 80s had gameplay.
>>323961191
>>323963150
>meme is another word for joke
Except it's not, that's a completely different phenomena.
A game that spawns memes is popular, to hate it for that reason alone makes you a dirty hipster.
>>323972354
Except that's not true mr. memer, now fuck off somewhere else.
>>323972434
>A game that spawns memes is popular
that is not true at all
>>323964638
>Video games would have to figure out duchamp first
Shit like Depression Quest had the same reaction from the public as Duchamp's fountain for example. Even if I'm exagerating, it's safe to say that dadaist/experimental games would suffer from negative reaction from /v/
>>323972824
Except it is. The defining aspect of a meme is it is shared and re-shared. That is all a meme is, a shared bit of cultural expression, as nebulous as that may be.
>>323973410
>Depression Quest
>Derided because of its message
>And not why it got attention in the first place
I've played Dear Esther/Gone Home/Stanley Parable and the walking simulator genre will eventually carve its own niche, I'm sure. Wait until someone thinks to recreate a book in the same format: Instead of reading about a story from a character's perspective, you play as the character, and can walk around in the world. Like House of Leaves on steroids. However, that is not why I play games, and I find them boring.
>>323959183
I thought Undertale was a game about player choice? They even have one of the characters trying to explain why you chose to play the way you did.Maybe the explanation was fitting for the first person who found the genocide route but everyone else just grinded through it because they heard about it, not because they wanted to level up.
>video games are currently in the post-modern/meta phase.
I can't wait for post-ironic video games. Although I guess Pony Island might qualify.
>>323972824
you could benefit from a dictionary, friend
>>323973914
Not even readers want those games. They (or at least the ones I know) prefer reading to playing walking simulators because a great deal of enjoyment comes from imagining the places, characters and everything else yourself using only the description the book gives you.
But this generation of "gamers" is into watching people play games for them with a commentary on top instead of actually playing, so who the fuck even knows anymore.
>>323974182
>not watching MDE
sam hyde is fucking glorious
i bet he was involved with the creation of parkourdude
>>323974182
What is post-irony? Just the pure enjoyment of things that might have been seen as ironic? Where enjoyment > meaning?
>>323973914
You might be onto something. Especially if VR takes off.
Although at that point it's sort of a movie.
I turned off the game several times when things got really weird and felt I had no control of the game anymore and got scared, like when walking to the right and meeting that fake wife
>>323974318
I was thinking about it like an ARG, where people turn every stone to unravel the mystery within. You're probably right, though. I'm not big on books.
This generation of 'gamers' enjoy watching glorified reality shows. I agree scripted content is rather bland, but I don't think this is the long-term solution. Casuals will eventually find some non-game content to munch on, and move on like they always do
>>323974992
>>323974992
>tfw running around pressing random buttons to stop detonation sequence
>tfw narrator makes fun of you for it
The Stanley Parable is PURE interaction. It is video gaming in it's purest form.
>>323973425
the meme isn't the game though
people post memes on twitter and shit all the time
they don't know where they came from
their just posting a repost of a repost of a repost
its almost in the nature of creating a meme that the original idea behind the thing it was created from is eventually lost or made irrelevant
>>323974931
Sort of. There's enjoying something ironically, where you're self-aware and just doing it for fun. Then there's post-ironic, where you're legitimately enjoying it, but on a different level then most people would enjoy. Post-irony is where intentions are blurred, so you have no idea if something is serious or not. Often the wor is actually half-serious, half insanity/stupidity, and it's up to you to decipher the meaning. MDE, Tim & Eric, and The Eric Andre Show usually fall into this category.
For a non-comedic example, you have bubblegum bass music.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MQUleX1PeA
On the surface it sound like bubblegum pop music, but underneath is usually a cynical edge and lyrics with hidden meanings.
>>323958381
what's up with the "meta" meme buzzword everyone's been throwing around in the most contrived ways possible for the last 2 months
>>323975543
Then I consider vaporwave as post ironic, since I found about it over many realted videos when listening to other 80s style stuff like lazerhawk and later videos of people making fun of it, it's just a meme genre
>>323975357
Fair enough point, but there it still requires the people playing the game to get to that point in the first place, if it isn't recognizable it isn't shared. I know a lot about Age of Empires 2, despite having never played it.
>>323975795
>meta
>meme
>>323974182
this screams pretentious pedant; is this the equivalent of internet culture hipsterism? My fucking sides
>>323970446
Art should be about aesthetics.
Post-modernism is just unlimited appeals to emotions. Philosophy for the imbeciles.
>>323976134
Nice maymay arrows friend, but what do you mean by this? Please be specific
>>323976369
>the fuck is google
It's a word with a definition you dolt.
>>323975980
Vaporwave is pretty post-ironic, like most internet meme genres.
>Chillwave
>Witchhouse
>Seapunk
>Vaporwave
>Vaporwave spinoffs like oceangrunge, sportswave, futurefunk, mallsoft
>Bubblegum bass
Not sure what's next.
I personally hate art that bludgeons you over the head with its premise. There's tongue in cheek and then there's "aren't we clever, look how clever we are" preening that gets on my nerves.
A meta narrative can be done good when it doesn't make it clear it's a meta narrative. Something like Inglourious Basterds is a meta-narrative but it doesn't sit you down and scream LOOK AT HOW SELF REFERENTIAL WE ARE BEING. Shit like the Stanley Parable (and Undertale to a lesser but still significant degree) wants you to know how meta they are being. I find that level of surface-level criticism obnoxious and shallow.
But who gives a shit what I think.
>>323976265
>Art should be about aesthetics.
I should write a book called "Terrible Opinions I read on /v/" this could be it's own chapter.
>>323975795
Do you knowknow what meta means? Please use google or dictionary.com
That said, while I haven't been here often these last 6 months, meta was a word extremely commonly used 2005-2011, it's far from a meme, and I'm surprised if you've been here more than those 2 months that you are just now hearing it.
>>323976452
you fucking imbecile, I wasn't asking what the word "meta" means, I'm rhetorically asking why tweens on the internet have to go out of their way to throw it around in a dimwitted, groanworthy attempt to seem insightful
I'm amazed you've made it this far in life despite your abject idiocy, but it might be time to cut your losses
>>323976925
wew lad ok.
>>323976265
Did someone say A E S T H E T I C S ?
A medium is at it's creative peak when a deconstruction is considered a great example of the medium.
>>323977007
nice meme, thanks for playing dunce
>>323976692
But all that only comes out when you are not following the story and game's rules. If you don't follow it, why should that narrator? That's the whole point of the game
>>323977278
It wasn't exactly what I got from your original post. Maybe you should have been more clear.
>>323977380
>>323966530
because it simultanously shits on and endorses violent video games like itself
it has something for everyone.
>>323976692
You know whats good?
when a game is being meta by using your expectations of a game against you.
>game teaches you something
>expect to use that against the boss
>swerve the boss is now teaching you a new mechanic of the mechanic and not even using the mechanics old uses
or something like that.
>>323976692
Agreed. My favorite line in Django Unchained is when Django addresses the plantation owner's lawyer:
"Almost like you his nigga!"
You have to understand that the UT fanbase is rather young, and this is probably their first exposure to a meta-narrative. Being a little direct probably does some good for them. They're the audience that needs this stuff pointed out. They can move on to more complex and subtle fare afterwards.
>>323976925
calm down you autistic faux intellectual faggot. The OP's use of the word meta was correct
>>323975795
It's all part of the chan culture meta-narrative, which you will retroactively appreciate in an ante-post-ironic way due to it's superstatus as both hilarious and depressing.
>>323977014
That's the good stuff
>>323977451
>>323977278
>>323976925
>>323976369
>>323975795
>>323977560
See? That actually kind of pissed me off. I don't enjoy mechanics like that, especially in the context of an RPG where you can be punished for things you didn't know about. It breaks the trust between player and creator. Then again, if I'd been playing a bunch of modern hand-holding AAA games, I might've been a little more impressed.
>>323975543
>On the surface it sound like bubblegum pop music, but underneath is usually a cynical edge and lyrics with hidden meanings.
Like Aqua did in the 90s?
>>323975795
Remember last year at E3 when everyone was saying that their new game was "the most ambitious game we have ever made"?
>>323977907
It may break the trust, but it does flick you on the head making you wake up.
Imagine horror games doing this. Simple enough though so you won't fail, just surprise you.
>monsters chasing you but you get a gun
>Shooting the monsters kill them
>new monster enters the field
>shooting them doesn't work it just phases through them
>you have enough time to run away
Now you're surprised and taken out of your comfort zone. Games should do this more.
>>323978357
That's totally fine. I could dig a game doing that. However, killing Toriel in UT is the worst way to introduce that kind of mechanic
>Damage ramps up out of nowhere
>Game auto-saves the result and reminds how much of a monster you are for doing something that isn't your fault
>Text starts to loop if you try sparing her, so you have to be persistent beyond reason to find it
None of it is obvious, or gives you time to process, and it's that kind of pig-headedness that draws me out of the experience
>>323978909
You're not supposed to save her the first time.
The first part of the game was you feeling a little bad for killing people in the game. The second part is you redeeming yourself. Problem is most people pacifist run it the first way through, because they're told to.
>>323976692
You should play Kane & Lynch 2, it's a pretty gritty deconstruction of the shooter genre
This game was a huge rip off
And I got it for 3 bucks
>>323958381
They're aimed at becoming a witty commentary on the culture, though usually come off too bland for them to stand out from the rest.
For most of them, once you've played one, you've pretty much played them all. There are exceptions though (Stanley Parable actually a pretty good example of such) that step out a little more in the writing space.
Really it's just making a less dev-intensive (lazier) game that relies more on clever writing, though it's often a huge miss.
>>323961791
You have 0 taste if you think breaking the fourth wall or having witty dialogue means a game is bad.
>>323958381
>Spending your time assmad about indie games.
>>323968709
That's really not what self referential humor is.
It's more like the kind of jokes where the humor is derived from the contradiction that it proposes.
A really simple example would be something like "I never get distracted! I'm always- Oh look a bird."
>>323979101
An intersting perspective, and if the game were released back in 1985 I'd agree that replaying a story-based game would be worth people's time. The age we live in (full of distractions and other things to spend our time with) has dictated that we optimize our gameplay. Getting every recruit in Suikoden would take a work week, which is why I haven't picked up the game despite wanting to for a while now. I don't want to miss anything, and I don't want to have to play it all again.
>>323979772
breaking the 4th wall is fine
the real issue are games that do it to such a degree that in 20 (or even maybe 10) years they'll be so out of touch with the culture that they might as well have never been made in the first place.
It's the different between a movie like Scream and something like Scary Movie. One is still fairly relevant because it's 4th wall moments have more universal themes about cinema as a whole whereas the other is a conglomeration of pop culture that is barely recognizable today.
>>323980629
Explain how a fourth wall joke in undertale is culturally dated and how in any way it matches the humor type of Scary Movie because pretty much everything you just said is based on nothing except your own opinion.
>>323959695
If you went to an impressionist art museum and someone followed you around the entire time saying "This is what this artist meant when he did this"
What else could you possibly call it?
>>323981059
as long as the guy following you around is the artist.
>>323980629
Don't tell me you don't find something fun because some teenager doesn't understand a refference. You call them faggots and enjoy what you like
>>323980850
>Explain how a game that came out less than 6 months ago is outdated
It's not timeless, and that will be made apparent eventually
>>323980850
I wasn't the original poster but undertale is full of pop cultural in-jokes
there's nothing wrong with that but you're crazy if you think anyone will understand or even find humor in writing like 'aren't cacti tsundere'. It'd be like me trying to convince the current generation of 4chan users why the cockmongler and longcat or spamming desu were hilarious at the time.
and that isn't to say you can't enjoy shit like that. It's just not going to stand the test of time, which doesn't mean anything unless you're the type of faggot who cares that much. I deleted my delayclose.jpg edits a long time ago, I didn't try to argue about the timelessness that particular joke.
>>323961791
We need books to be books.
We need movies to be movies
We need pictures to be pictures.
>>323958381
>What's up with all the meta-narrative games "about games" these days?
I personally see it as a growth of the medium, like there was a period in movie history where there were movies about making movies and whatnot, pocking fun at the cliches.
>>323961831
The most meta Undertale ever got was in the Genocide run where Flowey says that you're better than people who watch it happen.
>>323958381
Postmodernism is a big thing these days.
>>323982169
>reading comprehension
'bout as much as I'd expect from someone who has no fucking clue what the difference is between pop-culture references and breaking the fourth wall.
>>323982256
Isn't tsundere more of a term than a meme? Regardless, is the core of undertale really pop-culture jokes? Really? Because that's really the difference between games that have references and the Parody Movie genre.
Like look at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ma8sYIhY80
Is any of the games that guy listed even close to that?
>>323983058
I honestly don't remember anything pop culture related concerning Undertale but I haven't touched it in months.
>>323982818
by these days do you mean the past 2 decades?
>>323981059
>>323981734
its a good fucking point. wouldnt that clear up some shit, huh
>>323981059
Shit analogy. It's more like a documentary. And if you think that's pretentious I'd love to see you watch planet earth.
>Here we have 2 polar bear cubs playing in the snow-
>UGH WOW. HOW PRETENTIOUS CAN YOU GET?!
>>323961191
>>323981059
>>323981734
Is art what the viewer or artist sees in the product?
When they see two different types of art in the same work, is one of them wrong?
>>323985153
>>323985153
It's true though. The Stanley Parable uses gameplay to make you feel something connected to the game's theme, message, and atmosphere.
Mario uses gameplay to what end? To keep you busy.
I thought gameplay was supposed to be the most important part of games? How do you slam The Stanley Parable, which is built around it's gameplay in a profound and deep level, to Mario, which uses it's gameplay to waste your time, release after release?
cause games are popular, now faggots want to talk about gaming because they're 2deep4u
like seriously, do people do super meta narrative with ping pong or blackjack? doesn't that sound sort of ridiculous? it's the same fucking thing.
>>323986390
you're confusing narrative with gameplay, you obtuse shithead
>>323986390
It's false though. Mario uses gameplay to make you feel something connected to the game's mechanics and rewards you for mastering them.
Stanley Parable uses gameplay to what end? To keep you busy by walking in and out of a bunch of rooms like a Give Yourself Goosebumps book.
I thought gameplay was supposed to be the most important part of games? How do you slam Mario, which is built around it's gameplay in a profound and deep level, to The Stanley Parable, which uses it's gameplay to waste your time, room after room?
>>323986390
>Mario, which uses it's gameplay to waste your time, release after release?
hey /v/!
it's called "FUN"
game based on gameplay have little story and mostly gameplay, there are games who do both, and there are games who use it's gameplay for the story like OP
>>323986886
>>323986915
I think by gameplay he means the freedom to make an own decision, while mario are mostly classic platformers where your goal is to get from A to B and collect some stuff, while stanley parable comes closer to a modern rpg adventure thing or even sandbox, since there is no final ending, it just starts over
/v/ liking this shit is one of the dankest memes around. Shit like Dear Esther and Gone Homo are bashed as walking sims, but this is also a literal walking sim but nobody complains. On top of that, you have a pseudo-Wheatley narrator who never shuts the fuck up
>>323986390
>Mario's gameplay is just wasting time
Nigga you serious?
All video games are time wasting, nothing productive is being accomplished,
Games and entertainment in general is a means to waste time with amusement or enjoyment.
>>323987252
I'd argue Mario is a better sandbox, especially with games like Mario 3 where you get a metric ton of powerups and you're free to finish levels as you choose. Stanley Parable and its genre feel more like an amusement park: You're being taken from exhibit to exhibit. Your skills as a gamer aren't being tested.
I view personal freedom and creativity are important for games, unlike movies, which are non-interactive by nature and where I usually go for my deep involving plots.
For only having 3 power-ups, even Mario 64 has a lot of depth:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpk2tdsPh0A
>>323987419
Maybe because it's not spooky dark, it's a simple office building and not about females. It sets a very different atmosphere and tone
>>323987449
I'm saying the gameplay is surface level. It is separate from every other aspect.
Mario has nothing to teach. Nothing to say. It's there to keep you busy.
Shadow of the Colossus teaches you a lesson through gameplay. It's the reason it's a modern classic. If you can't see why, then I suggest you just keep playing video games as you have no capacity to critically understand a work.
Even games like Hotline Miami sere to teach you something through the gameplay. It connects to the atmosphere and theme. Just like a good movie's cinematography relates to the characters, or how a poem's structure relates to its meaning, these games (SotC, Undertale, Stanley Parable, Majora's Mask) use gameplay as a TOOL for the whole product, while other games (like Mario, Tetris, Halo) don't use gameplay in any novel way. They use it as other games have used it before them: as something that's just sort of "there" to keep you going. Like watching a Marvel film.
>>323972019
I consider Michael Bays "shitflicks" to be art. as well as all movies, including comedies.
Just because something isn't deep intentionally or unintentionally doesn't devalue it's legitimacy as a piece of art.
It's also subjective so there's that to.
>>323987449
>All video games are time wasting, nothing productive is being accomplished,
you are doing something thought
you are having fun, wasting time can be done by a lot of things without having fun, but videogames, most independent of it's difficulty, give you fun
>>323987830
You are the guy saving the princess, come on, this is the exact opposite of a sandbox game, think about minecraft, not levels and a goal right from the start you have to achieve to get the ending screen
>>323988249
What's your opinion on Pokemon, then? There's a set goal, but trillions of ways to do it.
How about GTA? There's a goal, but tons of side-levels. When does the journey outweigh the goal?
Minecraft has achievements/goals and an ending screen, like every other game.
>>323987830
>deep involving plots.
>movies
i haven't seen a deep plot in a movie that doesn't ends everything in the last 15 minutes in years, yet plenty games have plots and lore that can be, sometimes, even theorized about, and unlike
>y-you are OVERTHINKING IT
faggots i like to be able to, kind of, imagine how the things that are not explained in-game would be
>Why are games doing different things from my youth?
>It confuses me!
>>323988465
In pokemon you try to beat all the gym leaders and become the pokemonmaster, at least that how it was in the first games, pretty straight forward, even if it had an open world.
I've never played through an GTA, but this comes much closer to an sandbox game, because most people seem to play it as one, just driving around the city creating chaos, instead following the mainquest.
I took minecraft as an example because I was thinking about the alpha/beta, when it had none of the things you listed and was truly open ended, all that came later on I never saw everything of because I don't play it anymore
>>323988608
>y-you are OVERTHINKING IT
Where did this come from?
>i haven't seen a deep plot in a movie that doesn't ends everything in the last 15 minutes in years
I highly recommend Hateful 8
>>323987830
That's just glitch abusing (which is cool in its own right). Here's something more similar to what you want to prove.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8S6myWz3Kzg
>>323987419
>comparing Gone Homo to this
Gone homo is the worst walking simulator, this at least it's fun, and all the crazy ending and shit, and it pretty much references videogames in general like the achievement for interacting with random doors for no reason, shit, even Yume Nikki is interesting, comparing gone homo to a videogame is not possible
>>323988007
Majora's Mask teaches you something?
>>323989306
Gone Home is horror satire. If you didn't understand that, well then you missed a lot of the game. I'm not saying it's a great game, but there's a lot of horror and humor cleverly created through the gameplay, and to call it a walking simulator really cheapens the experience.
>>323989151
read again,i was not quoting you, i was talking about games who try to have lore where you need to think of what is the thing who is not explained in-game, but then people start telling that overthinking is not the intention of the game, and that i like when games have kind of open endings for interpretation
>>323988007
(Most) games should have both great narrative and gameplay aspects. Games are like board games and sports. It takes a genius to make something fun, challenging, skill enriching and variated. Some games try one or another. I think Mario holds more weight than these other entries for inventing a genre and improving dramatically with each entry. Most art focused games tend to tell messages that have already been done a lot of time in this medium and others. That doesn't mean there hasn't been good stories and messages in games though.
Just look at a game like Mario 64>>323989218
>>323958539
DONT DO IT ANON
