Define 'pay2win'.
Is League p2w?
I've unlocked all of the Dota 2 and LoL champions/skins.
I enjoy it greatly.
You dont matter.
Your opinnions dont matter.
You are not the target audience.
I am the target audience.
New games are made for people like me, not people like you.
You can post all crap all day you want on this chinese clock forum but in the end, you dont matter and your opinnions dont matter.
Im spending the money.
Im the one developers care about.
>>321688020
Do you get any sort of in-game bonus for paying money?
ANY bonus.
If you pay 10,000 dollars for a 1% increase of fart damage, it's P2W.
There are degrees however.
Some are worse than others.
League isn't that bad considering how samey the characters in each role are and how minor a lot of the buffs are.
>>321688020
Pay2Win = You can pay for EXCLUSIVE upgrades that can influence your chance to win. Something like a gun dealing 1 more damage, even if so little, would be a pay2win upgrade. It does not apply to things you can get your hands on for free, no matter how grindy it is. That only makes it pay2skip/pay2savetime/etc.
>>321688020
No, because you can't pay money to deal more damage or have more HP or anything.
>>321688020
If I dont have the right heros to counterpick because I did not spend money then the other team has an advantage all because I have not spent cash.
league players literally changed the definition of Pay2win 4 years ago from being able to buy any content that affects gameplay to only being pay2win if you aren't able to grind for 2 years to unlock it.
>>321688135
autism
>>321688020
League is "play2wastetimebeforeyoudie" family
>>321688464
>2 years
At worst it might take two weeks of daily playing to unlock a whole page of runes, if that's what you wanna use as an argument.
Someone post that yes/no image again
>>321688020
p2w used to be for things like spending 40$ on this broken weapon that beats everything else in the game
not many games really do that anymore and now lock content away to force players to either play a extremely long amount of time or spend money
i played over 5k games of league and still did not have all the characters unlocked and thats completely ignoring the rune page bullshit
>>321688135
I just saw different variations of this posted in like 3 other threads completely out of context, what's the deal here?
>>321689784
>i played over 5k games of league and still did not have all the characters unlocked
same here brother.
btw, there are skins that have different animations, that make the champ feel better to play.
I play better with AW Kayle than i do with any other of her skins.
I got lucky with the mistery gift they gave everyone some months ago.
>>321688135
>>321688249
Normal people do not have the time or energy to play the amount of LoL necessary to unlock everything. If you do not have access to all the champions in a ranked match, regardless of your skill, you are at a disadvantage.
>>321692372
good point never tought about it since I'm a noob
>>321688249
What if the amount of time you have to play to get those items is so long that there's absolutely no way you'll ever get them?
What if by the time a free player gets the item(s), a better set is released, putting them a large amount of time behind and therefore always weaker?
What if there are huge benefits to behind ahead of the crowd, such as not having to deal with other people who are trying to farm for the same thing you are and they make it more difficult for you?
What if they people who pay to get an item significantly earlier also get much more experience using it, and therefore have an advantage with it?
What if buying something with real money means you have more in game money to spend on other items that improve your character (Like LoL)?
>>321692953
> behind ahead of the crowd
Being ahead of the crowd, my bad.
Since I have the money, I personally prefer P2W games and rekt faggots.
It's more realistic, because in life people with monnies win and get what they want.
>>321688135
>Target audience is cocksucking, ball licking, dumb autistic children
>I'm not the target audience
Thanks anon, that's the nicest thing anyone has told me today!
>>321693206
That sounds kind of sad, why not just spend the money on your girlfriend?
>>321688135
Pure, unfiltered autism in a single post
>>321693557
She's a daddy's girl, she spends money on me buddy.
>>321693686
So she wears the pants while you spend money in games for teenagers. Damn anon, get your shit together.
>>321690281
maybe some shitty raid thing or something.
>>321688135
mother of kek
There are skins in LoL that give you an advantage, despite it being a very slight one.
>Leona's Sunlight deals 1 less damage (before magic resistance) to champions wearing sunglasses. This has been officially stated in-game as a Did you know? trivia fact.
Only one champion wears sunglasses in her normal skin. All of the other ones are skins you have to pay for.
>>321688135
>this post
>>321688020
LoL is "pay to not grind"
>>321688249
>Pay2Win = You can pay for EXCLUSIVE upgrades that can influence your chance to win.
No, that's fucking wrong. A game can have all of its content available for free via grinding and still be pay to win, because the time it takes to access it is a factor.
If a new player downloads the game and buys a good gun while everyone else who just started is still on starter weapons because they're still grinding funbux to unlock better ones, that player paid to win.
The LoL cycle:
>play game, start with only a few chracters that are boring.
>look at the store, see all the waifu bait, they look fun!
>spend money, still bored
>feel the need to keep playing to justify time/money spent
It's a weird case of stockholm syndrome. Most people playing MOBAs don't enjoy them. They play because:
1. their friends play
2. justifying time/money spent
3. the game is pandering, gives them a false sense of competitiveness
Don't play ASSFAGGOTS. Quit while you're ahead. you'll be glad you did. Man up, and play a real competitive game.
>>321694530
But what if I haven't spent a cent on them and I legitimately enjoy playing them
>>321694530
I enjoy hots somehow
>>321694220
No, League of Legends is pay 2 win.
You can improve your stats and several other aspects of your character by buying runes, which you can only buy with in game money.
However, buying new champions also costs in game money, and both runes and champions cost a lot. If you want to max out your rune page as a free player, then you're stuck to only using a few champions for a long time. This is both unfun and makes you weaker because you will be unable to pick characters that are better for team synergy/counterplay to your opponent, as well as the fact that most of the free champions aren't even that good.
Basically, by buying champions with real money, you have plenty of money to spend on your rune page instead, allowing you to be flat out stronger and have more choice with your champions, which is both more fun and makes you stronger in game (There's a reason why the champion picking phase is so long and important in tournaments). This is why LoL is pay 2 win.
>>321688135
Even though this is a pasta but I will say that almost nobody has the money required to buy all of dota 2 skins or if you do then you are like an arabian prince or some shit.
>>321688020
oh you goddamn cunt whore bastard
actually what do I care, it's just one first page slot
>>321694767
Hots is surprisingly fun. I mean it's casual fun, but still fun. Newer heroes like chogall and lunara are pretty different from most other moba heroes and the constant teamfights and battling over objectives is a nice change of pace compared to dota or lel.
Also 15-20 minute games actually let me enjoy myself and relax instead of being mad as shit for losing a 60 minute shitfest dota game
>>321695121
I agree, I used to play all 3 with my friends, and I found hots to be the least frustrating. Although after they nerfed Kael for the 6th time in a row I stopped playing.
>>321695121
>>321694767
hots is shit
i hoped it would fill the void dawngate left for quicker games but holy hell its so ass
fucking fuck ea for killing dawngate
>>321695121
Even for comp play I like it somehow. Laning to 10 takes a few minutes and then it's non-stop action. Even losing close games isn't that rage inducing and leading your team with good calls is surprisingly rewarding. Can't really stand the QM anymore but yeah I think the game has some solid mechanics for heroes and even though it's lacking depth for others like talent diversity it makes up for it with all the different maps and stuff
>>321695534
He's still the best caster though. Living bomb is the shit.
>>321694794
And you can get that exactly as fast as a paying player by just skipping out on champions. Like I said, pay to not grind. Money just saves you time.
Runes don't do shit before tier-3 and nobody buys them until then, and by then you have more than enough IP to fill several pages.
I hate LoL as much as the next guy, but there are way more real problems to criticize about it than this
Everyone is going to tell you it is because dotafags have a hate-boner for league but as the one person who still calls dotas mobas, I can guarantee you that League isn't P2W in any way that matters
It is P2W, but on such a minuscule "b-but what if this happens" level that it really doesn't affect any player that bothers getting to max level to do mmr stuff. You need something like 15 heroes to queue up, each of which cover each others roles pretty solidly unlike DotA where each hero has stronger counters.
>>321695642
Except being able to choose the right champion is a huge part of the game. Not having a good selection of champions makes you weaker. That was explained in the post.
>>321695956
That's pretty heavily negated by the fact that all counters are extremely soft and all the champions within a given archetype are very samey and cookie cutter, which is much bigger of a problem that the grasping at straws "pay to win"
>>321695956
Even competitive players only ever need access to 4 or 5 champions at most for their roles which is its own problem but indicative that you don't need access to everyone to play well
>>321696490
what happens when those are no longer good?
>>321695956
Unlike DOTA2, LoL characters designed with roles in mind and a dozen characters can fill a particular role. You only really need a handful of characters to play competitively and anything beyond that is just a matter of personal preference.
>>321696289
I don't think you understand what negated means.
> You're right but it's not that bad!
I can't say how heavy the counters are currently as I haven't kept up with League, but it's still an issue. Plus, this thread isn't a "What's wrong with LoL" thread, it's a "What is Pay2Win" thread, so of course it's worth mentioning. Of course character choice isn't going to be a major part of your victory unless if you're a top player, but it's still an advantage.
>>321696490
The thing is that as new characters are introduced and the meta changes the characters you need will change. You can't just buy 5 characters and be good forever. (Not to mention that depending on the costs those 5 characters can actually take a lot of IP)
>new champions are always OP
>cost money or 8k IP, which takes like 100 games to earn
>if you don't have counters in ranked you're at a disadvantage
>>321696932
>You're right but it's not that bad!
That's exactly what I'm telling you. It's like bitching that the price of something you buy in small quantities went up by one cent. Yes, it's there, but it really doesn't fucking matter and your energy is better spent criticizing actual problems.
>>321696995
>lying
http://champion.gg/statistics/#?sortBy=general.winPercent&order=descend
>>321697623
they nerf them eventually
>>321697332
But the topic of this thread was to talk if LoL was pay 2 win. So of course we're going to be talking about it. I don't understand why you think it's silly to talk about it if it's literally what the thread is about.
>>321697751
That has nothing to do with the fact that it's so fucking menial.
>>321697893
Then complain to the OP or something, not me, jeez.
>>321688960
>At worst it might take two weeks of daily playing to unlock a whole page of runes, if that's what you wanna use as an argument.
>2 weeks to unlock 1 rune page full of runes
>50 years to unlock all the champions and all the rune pages full of runes
>not pay to win
>>321697969
Why would I complain to OP when you're the one who made the claims? Are you retarded?
>>321688135
how much money did you spent on that?
>>321688020
Paying money for in game advantages that the company sells you.
Game X isn't pay 2 win because you walked over to your friends house, gave him a dollar, and then got his sword in game.
Game Y is p2w because bought stuff in game others don't have for real money.
>>321698414
Whoh hey, don't get upset at me all of a sudden. My claims are true, even if you think they're minor. I never said that it was a huge issue or anything.
>>321698451
zero dollars and zero cents because he's baiting
>>321694220
that's pay to win, sport.
>>321698704
>backpedaling
>>321688020
pay2win means when a free2play game has a cash shop that allows you to buy upgrades, or anything mechanically different from what you are given at the start.
League operates on free weeks, where some characters are free for a week and it rotates, but you can pay to unlock a character forever with real money or in game money.
I don't have the calculation image but one person deduced that to unlock every champion, rune, etc would take 109 days of play time to buy with only in game money. So yes League is pay2win, but it's one of the least egregious offenders.
>>321694530
>played lel with friends for 3-4 years or something
>one day get fed up with it
>uninstall it and never look back
>even after spending money like the stupid shit I was
>after buying skins and champs like some mouthbreathing retard
some people want me to come back to play with them
I don't understand how they can play this for such a long time and don't get sick after at least 5 years
I wish they would play something different than assfaggots
my smashbros left to go back to lel too
>>321698790
How? Convenience =/= winning.
Is hearthstone p2w?
>>321698846
I don't even know what you're talking about anymore. What do you think I'm backpedaling from?
>>321699097
Extremely.
>>321688135
>opinnions
At least we know you're retarded, mister ASSFAGGOT
>>321699097
Are they making physical cards now? Isn't that what the WoW tcg was?
>>321699097
Hearthstone is one of the worst pay2wins, because the new shit is always better than the old shit. It'd be like playing yugioh with a toon deck against a 5D synchro deck
>>321694530
Or just play dota and actually enjoy the fucking game. No one trashtalked ASSFAGGOTS back when there was only fucking dota. But then LoL came out and people started using that pile of shit game as the model of the genre.
>>321699097
Every card game has pay to win elements.
>>321699383
This. How come nobody bitches about MTG being pay to win, yet shit like LoL gets slammed constantly?
>>321688135
I can see people are falling to this fresh bait.
The birth of a new epic meme
>>321699504
because when you get tired of it you can sell your cards and do other stuff with the money?
>>321699504
Because MtG has the price tag up front, rather than trying to hide it and manipulate people into spending money like in Hearthstone.
Really though, the biggest reason is because you choose who to play a physical card game with, you just play with friends and it's just normal fun, it's ok to lose to friends. In online games you're thrown into ranked mode or some sort of ranking system, you HAVE to get competitive about things. If you were forced to play in tournaments in MtG it would be the same sort of thing.
>>321699504
I've talked with tons of people who complain that their magic deck from the 90's can't hold up to cards released this decade
>people say league isn't pay to win
Lol, time is money faggots. It takes the equivalent of a 40 hour work week to unlock a new 6300 IP hero...or buy it for 10 bucks.
Then you have runepages and all that junk. Unreal. Then Blizzard does the same shit with HotS.
>>321688020
>riki
>not cleave counter to meepo
Are u retarded
>ASSFAGGOTS thread isn't deleted on spot
What happened to mods?
>>321700813
they are busy fucking your mom
>>321699097
I won't lie, that's a nice looking wallet.
Yes league is p2w, but it's not as bad as it could be
>>321699819
How much money are you even going to get out of a basic deck? Assuming you even have any cards worth anything.
You can sell all your Dota 2 cosmetics for Steam funbucks but how much did you actually spend in comparison to how much you are making back?
>>321688210
>League isn't that bad considering how samey the characters in each role are and how minor a lot of the buffs are.
this is the direct effect of the game having pay-gated content though, all heroes MUST be designed to be replaceable and generic because of the fact that not all players are going to have all the heroes unlocked.
if the game had heroes with specific and powerful abilities that required specific and powerful counters, every game where the opposing team doesnt own a good counterpick means the balance is forever fucked.
tl;dr the design of all heroes in a pay-gated premium content game have to be balanced around being generic and low impact
>>321688020
>Los Dire
>Los Radiant
>>321701562
i used to play yugioh after a friend gave me a bunch of cards he didnt like then i started trading some of them and selling some of them, then I bought some cards (not packs) and then i made an average deck, after that i started betting cards with people until i got an amazing collection, IIRC i spent like 50 bucks worth of cards and got gamecubes, gameboys, playstation 2, tons of games, tons of moneys and tons of jewelry from the cards I had.
>played league for around three years
>my biggest complaint was not being able to play all of the characters
>anytime I'd bring it up people would tell me I need to focus on getting good and the fun comes later
>all I wanted to do want play whatever looks fun
I'm glad I quit playing.
League's biggest problem is the rune system. You save up all those RP's and you are pretty much forced to spend them on runes instead of heroes at higher levels.
HotS did this better, since the only thing to buy with gold are heroes so you can save up and buy as many as you want and don't have to worry about rune shit. But the game itself is boring as hell so It's wasted.
>>321699960
What does that have to do with anything?
>>321703537
Power creep, it forces you to update or be left in the dust.
>>321700813
>why aren't the mods deleting threads about video games?
>>321703614
Yeah, I know
What does that have to do with anything
Did you reply to the wrong post
>>321703761
he replied to someone asking why nobody complains about mtg with an example of people complaining about mtg
are you retarded?
ASSFAGGOTS is one of the worst things that happened to video games.
>>321704083
casuals are the worst thing actually
>>321698089
Having more champions doesn't make you more likely to win. Usually people just play a few champs and get really good at them instead of spreading out. Once you have a full rune page, you're pretty much on the same playing field as everyone else
>>321704432
wrong
>>321704083
i never understand the hate for assfaggots, they are the purest form of video games, its all about gameplay, theres a win and a lose condition, they take skill and practice to be good at, theres competition. you could make these things as board games even.
meanwhile the AAA industry is churning out wannabe movies you walk through and are completely driven by narrative and their selling points are all about which hollywood actor they roped into doing voice and mo-cap work, even the most braindead casuals can bluster through and finish the game because they dumb everything down to shit and want people to finish the 6 hour game and then buy the next one in a years time.
>>321704657
You can only play 1 champ per game. Owning 100 others has no effect on the game aside from counter picking, which is only applicable at higher levels of play, and by that time you'll probably have already unlocked a fair share
>>321704432
but this is because champions in league are generic as shit. their design is dictated first by the business model and second by gameplay.
compare to dota, where counterpicking is a huge part of gameplay, this would be impossible if all the good counterpicks are stuck behind a paywall.
>>321704884
>theres competition
You say like that's a good thing. The e-celebs and "professional gamers" that such a thing attracts are fucking terrible. Video games were good when they were not such a big thing that attracts shitty companies to advertise their products.
>>321704960
>What is team synergy
>What is wanting to get good with champions you find fun
>>321704960
So that's why in Moba tournaments teams take absolutely no time at all to pick their characters right?
>>321705474
i didnt bring up e-celebs or professional gamers at all. just competition.
theres competition when you play monopoly with your family, or risk, or pong, or poker or football or tennis or thousands of other games in all their different forms.
competition is an element of a "game", story and narrative isnt.
League isn't P2W because the moment you start playing League, you've already lost.
>>321705851
Learn to read kid
>>321688135
I bet you were trying to make a strong point.
But what you really did is made yourself look dumb as hell.
In other words, you're retarded
>>321688020
Pay2win = Advantages that can ONLY be achieved through money. League is Pay2notgrind. The other thing that most peopel don't realize is that players can get to diamond using only one champion, people do it all the time. Owning all the champions isn't realy an advantage unless you're good with all of them.
>>321703898
Responding to a question with a somewhat related, but not invoked statement is kind of misleading
Plus that's not really any relevant information seeing as buying cards to begin with regardless of power creep is "pay to win"
>>321688020
The thing doto players won't get though, is that not having the hyped counterpick fotm in League isn't a big deal, because there is a lot of counterplay against individual characters no matter how unfavourable the match up is.
Getting counterpicked in League isn't such a huge deal compared to getting counterpicked in DotA
>On a side note
