Good level design
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>Good level design
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
I really liked that area. Never understood the hate for it.
>>321674213
MIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
>>321674543
FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
>>321674619
SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLL
>>321674429
I always hated and had trouble with in in Vanilla. But I really liked how it was in SotFS
>pre-patch amana on console
good times
>>321674429
Probably because you played it on patched or SotFS version.
amana is comfy as fuck
>>321674663
LEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>>321674429
Did you play it at release, or after? They patched it fast, but it was bullshit for a while. The homing on their spells was more aggressive and their range was actually longer than their render distance. It was a nightmare for people playing melee based characters, and a chore for everyone else who just used bows to snipe their way through.
>>321674962
>>321674429
It's really beautiful, but it's also a huge load of shit for a melee character who wont crutch with poison arrows.
I don't know how I got through this the first time on the release version, there's way less tracking from the mage's spells now
>>321673910
>linear pathway with dumb shits shooting at you for 10 minutes
>not to mention the fuckers that can tread through the water perfectly fine
Nobody wanted a worse version of the swamp in DeS.
Here is good design.
I never really got the hate for this area, and yes I did play it pre-patch.
Even though the spellcasters can snipe you from insanely far away, you still only had to get through this area once, and when you do, the boss is insanely easy. It's not like you have to go through the most op part of Amana every time just to reach the boss. Just try and die until you succeed.
>Whining about Shrine of Amana
>Ever
Even at release, it was piss easy. The game gives you dozens of options to mitigate magic.
>>321675182
Meh. Those three skinny motherfuckers who spawn in and rush you down after you raise the staircase piss me off.
>>321673910
>Pic not related
>>321673910
I have never played the game but I keep seeing shit about this map. Whats wrong with it?
>>321673910
Great place to use a seed when someone invades you.
I don't think I've ever met a single person who defended this map
>>321675808
Mages with homing soul spear, waist deep water with pitfalls and no rusted iron ring in the game, and near the end are 3 strong enemies that rush you from far away while casters are shitting on you if you didn't take them out first
>>321675250
place summon sign and show me how its done feggit
>>321675808
You basically have to cheese it with a bow.
>>321673910
Even the randomly generated chalice dungeons in BB have better design.
>tfw loved Valley of Defilement, Blighttown and The Gutter
I can't be alone on this. I think they seem really shitty at first (which is obviously the intended atmosphere) but once I get used to them it's a lot of fun to explore every nook and cranny of them, and those areas are always loaded with hidden paths and treasures.
>>321676843
No they don't. Chime Maidens are way, way worse.
it's not a bad area they could have done more with the light and water gimmick though...
>>321677280
blight town was one of the best areas the gutter was a little disappointing though
>>321677280
I'm sure you aren't, but I hate swamps. Nightmare Frontier was annoying as fuck too.
>>321677280
The first part of the Gutter was fun with falling down the giant hole and going through the Grave place with the areas that lined the hole.
Once you actually reached the wooden plank shitholes that were in a bottomless pit, it turned to shit.
Seriously, it was a bunch of platforms just floating over a black pit.
Posting actual worst area.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LX9IGRimxlg
>>321677592
The gutter seemed eerie, then you find that there are only like 5 real enemies in the entire area and learn to break every poison effigy thing
The jumping you can do in that area is cool though
>>321677931
I ran through the area cause it spooked me and found the bonfire right by the boss. It was ok :^)
>>321674213
EGOOOOOOOON
Just started DS2 for the first time and I feel like DS2's idea of "hard" is "fuck you here's 3-5 enemies at once" all the time.
Maybe it's just been too long since I played DS1 a ton but I don't remember it being this frustrating.
>>321679459
>"fuck you here's 3-5 enemies at once" all the time.
Nope, that's pretty much the idea on most of the areas, have fun.
>>321679459
its not that bad but your complaint is what almost everyone whines about so its probly true
>>321679459
Welcome to DS2!
>>321679459
The only hard parts of the entire souls series is when they force you to manage several enemies at once
>>321679459
Nah I feel the exact same way. They even do it with a lot of the bosses. You thought 2 gargoyles were rough? WELL HERE'S 5!!!! Here's not-Sif with some rats along with him! Here's... 3 big knights instead of one!
Feels to me like the only way to beat these shits is to turtle behind a shield for ages and slowly chip at them whenever a small window of opportunity shows up.
>>321679979
Also Burnt Ivory.
>>321679979
all the knight enemies are easy to parry and can be killed while they get up
if you kill the gargs 1 at a time it stays at 3 i think with 1 almost dead
the dog so long as you dont lock on its ez pz
>>321679459
You will enjoy best boss anon :^)
>>321673910
Said no one ever.
>>321680184
>He didn't find the other knights to seal off the gates and have one left as aggro bait against the now lone Ivory King
>>321680832
>not solo'ing
This level (and the whole game) was EZ as can be once you get the GREAT CLUB.
The whole game becomes a joke after the great club. 2 hand strong attack knocks everyone down, and then you can either keep hitting them or just wait until they get up and knock them down again.
>>321681153
Powerstancing any 2 hammer/mace also gives great results. Poise damage is huge, you can defeat most enemies without them ever doing anything.
>>321675182
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qwU1LQZA5g
>>321673910
You're implying anyone has said this about das2 at all
>>321679459
Like, literally a handful of steps into Forest of Fallen Giants; the first bow guy you find has 4 other enemies lurking nearby only two of which are clearly visible from where you spot him and he starts shooting at you. One of those two is playing dead before the game has shown you some of these enemies play dead.
I don't think Undead Burg pulled any of this shit on that level.
>>321679979
I finished the game and NG+ DLCs included, by using only melee and never summoning. I used light armor that I thought looked good for pretty much my whole playthrough but I switched to heavy for the NG+ DLCs because they were really harder. There is only one moment I felt the game was hard, and it sure as hell wasn't the shrine of amana, that place is so easy it literally blows my mind people would whine about it. The frigid outskirts and the king's pets were the only place and bosses I really found hard even fully geared.
>>321679459
>omg alluring skulls are useful now >:(
>>321681825
There is the crossbow guy by the bonfire shooting at you while you fight the 2 (or 3 if you go close) hollow soldiers.
I really dont get this complaint for DS2, there is a few areas with multiple enemies but they can be easily handled without rushing into them all.
Even the spider bit lets you use a torch where they will literally let you walk right down to the fog gate without coming near you.
I'm still intrigued as to why people say:
_when it's hard on DaS1 or BB, it's a challenge
_when it's hard on DaS2, it's unfair
Why not adapt to the game like you always did before?
>>321679459
It was somewhat fixed in SotFS, if you're not playing it - get it now
>>321673910
>using a fire weapon in a water area
GOOD IDEA ANON
>>321676339
Even after the SotFS patch they still shot homing soul spear at me all the way from that Royal Door shit.
>>321682186
>Dark Souls 1 had interesting level designs with traps and enemies in difficult places
>Bloodborne had interesting level designs with traps and enemies in difficult places. In addition, bosses had multiple phases with hard move sets
>Dark Souls 2 had horrible level design with traps, giant mobs, and broken hitboxes. Some bosses had multiple phases with difficult move sets
>>321682186
People don't like DaS2, so they paint everything negative.
>>321682594
Hot opinions in my face.
>>321682594
>difficult move sets
Maybe you should be playing pikmin or something.
>>321682701
Fine.
>broken hitboxes
>giant mobs
There.
>>321682915
Fair enough.
Why do people complain about many enemies in one area?
I don't get it? is this the >artifical difficulty meme?
Once you understand how the game works, it gets easy enough.
it would be way more fun to play the game in easy mode, and only fight a single enemy at a time, because thats so fun and totally challenging.
>>321681825
Undead burg had stuff but it was much better communicated. There's the ambush by the guys on railings, and the area before the bonfire where you can clearly see the spear sword guys behind the barricades and the crossbow guy before you entered.
I think the real reason that the linked aggression pisses everyone off ties into how enemy tracking works in DaS2. It's much harder to juke enemies, you tend to have to roll through attacks. With several enemies, that becomes a huge pain.
>>321683328
>all or nothing
That's exactly the problem.
FROM have no idea what the word balance means.
It's not about difficulty, it's just tedious and not fun. Especialyl when you can abuse ai reactions and swipe through a whole horde.
>>321683517
Tell us exactly which part you find so tedious?
>>321683330
>I think the real reason that the linked aggression pisses everyone off ties into how enemy tracking works in DaS2. It's much harder to juke enemies, you tend to have to roll through attacks. With several enemies, that becomes a huge pain.
Oh yeah, this is definitely my second complaint. I haven't gotten back in the groove enough yet to be consistent with rolling (also, agility is kinda lame) so it's pretty difficult to fight enemies in any way aside from just waiting behind a shield for them to exhaust their moveset.
>>321673910
>implying anyone has ever said this about DS2
2/10 bait for making me reply
>>321683668
About killing 5+ of the same enemies in a limited space who all have similar AI and animations?
who knows.
>>321683974
No...which part of the game?
>>321675138
>poison arrows
any arrows will do
greatarrows are especially effective.
or just, yknow, use a magic parry shield, or raime's greatshield.
if you are intentionally gimping yourself by not using the tools the game provides, thats not the games fault
Anyone have webms of this? I only played SOTFS and it was pretty easy.
I had a bitch of a time in Amana on SotFS because I missed the cave bonfire over and over.
>>321684218
Path down to the sentinels where you fight 67 royal swordsmen.
The OP area pre and post-nerf.
THE FUCKING GUTTER HOLY SHIT I LOVE FIGHTING 13 DIFFERENT ENEMIES AT ONCE ON A TINY TRAIL.
The whole rat hell even though it was ez.
dead mans wharf.
Most qty > qua places just weren't fun.
Also the poisonous slave camp before poison queen's tower.
>>321684429
First video. This is pre-patch Amana. Keep in mind there is also a part where 2 hammer guys rush you in the water while casters are shooting at you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKhPfZpYQUM
>>321684686
no-mans.
and yeah I'm shitty at names, but most of DS2 was a blur.
>>321684810
also not the gutter, the gulch.
wew
>>321685007
You were correct with the gutter. Black Gulch is the bottom which is mostly just those fucking poison dart statues.
>>321684686
Poison area was annoying ill give you that
>Path down to the sentinels where you fight 67 royal swordsmen.
These cunts can be killed with 1-2 hits as they come through the door together.
Dead mans wharf puts like 2 enemies onto you at once and the gutter has 2-3 one hit undead cronies at once. Jesus those are some of the easier areas.
>>321684728
pretty sure its not like that in sotfs where the bolts just go straight past you
>>321684728
SoTFS looks like pre patch to me
>>321684728
I was just going to say this
>>321685271
Pretty certain it wasnt like that when I played. I remember having to roll some.
>>321685189
That's what I meant actually, it was an awful area because they just put as many variables as possible in a tiny ass place that led down to an even worse boss.
>>321685228
Just because they're easy doesn't mean it's a good place or design.
It doesn't even make sense for that many to be there.
>>321682594
>difficult movesets
you phrased that completely wrong, man
I totally understand what you're saying, because a lot of the boss attacks are fucking retarded, but you're making it seem like you don't want to get le good, which throws DaS2 downies into a meme frenzy
>>321685358
Yeah I was SOTFS in this comment.
>>321685415
Do normal saves from DS2 work with SoTLS upgrade?
>>321676769
Isn't that 90% of Souls 2 though?
>>321685618
No.
>>321685520
I didnt mention it being a good place. I questioned how that bit could possibly be one of the harder/frustrating areas of multiple enemies. That particular one is easier than most.
>>321685686
Not at all.
>>321685769
Tedious != hard
>>321685724
>>321685750
Damn ;_;
I don't want to play through the whole game again to get back to where I am.
>>321685618
Nope
>>321686002
fuck off then, play your inferior version, faggot
>>321685898
It is not tedious either. The whole area consists of a few base hollow undead soldiers.
It is comments like this that convince me most of the shitposting about DS2 is the DS1 fanboys scraping the barrel for things to talk shit about.
We could go tit for tat all day between 1 and 2, Capra demon in a small room with 2 dogs for example. The area before is worse than the gutter with 3 dogs and those ninja guys.
It is all matter of opinion.
>DaS2 discussion happens
>Horde/Group Encounter complaints come up
>"Git gud" answer is delivered in response
>IT'S NOT THAT I THINK IT'S HARD
>I JUST THINK IT'S TEDIOUS
Every fucking time. It's not tedious if you're any good at the fucking game.
>>321686301
Exactly this. It is always "tedious, not hard" just so they can save face.
Or "the movesets are bullshit"
>>321686301
Actually it is tedious if you're good at the game.
Tedious means it takes long to get through an area because you need to kill every fucking enemy in the giant mobs.
>>321686570
But if you're good at the game, it's easy to cut down all the enemies quickly.
>>321686570
Good one. Its that bad because im good!
Those huge mobs!
>4-5 undead hollows with 50hp
Does soul memory change if you lose souls? Like if you die and lose 100k souls, does it affect soul memory? If not, then that's total fuckign bullshit.
>>321686301
>>321686521
too long, slow, or dull: tiresome or monotonous.
>>321686717
Nope. You can't ever lose soul memory I think.
>>321686821
Only if you're godawful at the game.
>>321686717
Soul memory doesn't really matter at a point where you can easily obtain 100k for future losing
>>321686919
Being able to kill bulks of enemies at once is still dull, why is this so hard for you to get?
FROM relentlessly re-skin castle gimmicks and rarely do anything fun with them.
>>321686709
>>321686712
Game plays like ass compared to Bloodborne and Dark Souls.
Clunky animations, giant hitboxes, and hordes of shitty enemies. I just took a look at the steam store page for SotFS and laughed because every fucking picture on the page showed a giant horde of enemies.
Instead of throwing a billion melee peons at the player, why don't the establish interesting levels that make it challenging for the player to fight one or two enemies?
>>321687158
Yeah, this guy is exactly one of those guys. Im not good at it so its bad game design.
I played this game about a year after it came out. Wasn't connected to the Internet when I played so I never downloaded the patch. The level was a breeze until after that second little cave with the bonfire and there's 2 or 3 witches shooting at you from light years away and the dark spirit whose attacks take over half your health. I skipped it, did some of the DLC, came back and sniped em all with the Possessed Armor Greatbow.
>>321687261
Bloodborne's also pretty guilty of the tons of linked mobs and addon bosses though. Maybe it's not that bad in the main game, but the lower Chalice Dungeons are fucking bullshit.
>>321687505
Those are completely optional and meant to be unfair.
>>321686301
Bloodborne is entirely full of mob encounters. It has more than ever before, with like 30 in the first real area, and the enemies themselves are far more difficult and varied in moveset.
Why doesn't Bloodborne get any bitching for it?
>>321684686
Those aren't tedious at all though. The only one that's tedious is the op one and that's because it's also hard.
I know "hard" is a word we like to pretend never happens in a souls game but it fucking was. Same with the knights on the way to the sentinels. But that was only hard if you ran into all of them like a moron.
I've beaten the game and das1 on level 1 and this whole pretending nothing is ever hard but it's "tedious" is hilarious to me. Some parts are legitimately hard, not "tedious" but hard. Like the fucking reindeer area was a nightmare.
>>321687612
Most of DS2 is completely optional too, what point are you trying to make here?
>>321687640
It's easy to pull a few at a time and all of the starting weapons have wide attacks to hit multiple enemies at once.
>>321687747
Okay, so you're just fucking around now. Thanks for telling me.
>>321687889
As are they easy to pull in DS2
People are just arguing opinions as fact. As usual.
>>321686301
The game is tedious. You should be able to skip to the credits. Hope they put a little effort into the next one.
>>321687640
Also, bloodborne's walls hit detection is way worse than DaS2 hitboxes to the point that the character gets stuck frequently.
>>321686284
>most of the shitposting about DS2 is the DS1 fanboys scraping the barrel for things to talk shit about.
Of course they're scraping the bottom of the barrel, they're playing Dark Souls 2
>>321687640
Most of those enemies are on patrols, and the game gives you crowd control weapons in case you do aggro most of them.
>>321687640
>LE BEE TEEM MAYMAY.
No but seriously. People went into DaS2 wanting to shit on it. And DaS2 made special efforts to shut down all the cheese tactics people had been abusing previously, which REALLY upset some folks.
>Backstabs and circlestrafes invalidated most of DaS1
>DaS2 introduces enemies with specialized backstab stopping behaviors and strong rotation and attack tracking
>Shields are almost always 100% Phys Reduction in DaS1
>In DaS2 you're lucky to get an 80% reduction before the first boss
>Fast-Rolling is the best defensive option in DaS1 because of how safe it is and how little investment it takes
>DaS2 introduces the idea of tying dodge efficacy to a stat in order to balance it out against other options
>>321688102
Well they're easier in BB because you have a gun and pebbles are pretty easy to find.
>>321687640
Sony exclusive.
But I get a kick out of the people who defend Bloodborne but shit on Dark Souls 2 tracking and mobs and multiple bosses. It's just as guilty in a lot of these "sins". You can't like the series as a whole, you have to either like sony exclusives or multiplats because they are in no way a fucking like in so many ways.
Which is what makes the games great to me anyway.
>>321688025
I'm a different anon but DS2 has like 7 mandatory areas.
Shaded woods
Castle Drangleic
Amana
Crypt
Aldias Keep (that has like 6 enemies half of who don't even respawn)
Dragon aerie (not counting shrine because you can just zip past all of it and fight 0 enemies, dragon aerie itself has 4 mandatory enemies to fight)
Memory of Jeigh
>>321674429
It was patched
a lot of minor things got patched in both DaS1 and 2 that made areas a lot easier
>>321688164
Good job proving him right.
>>321688175
>Defending the i-frame stat
>>321687640
That's because the game was designed around it.
You have lots of mobs of guys, sure, but you're super fast, they tend to be more cautious and you can chop them down quite fast.
With Dark Souls 2, a fair bit of the mobbing enemies are fast, tanky, and aggressive.
>>321688175
>Backstabs and circlestrafes invalidated most of DaS1
>DaS2 introduces enemies with specialized backstab stopping behaviors and strong rotation and attack tracking
>Bloodborne entirely denies backstabs unless you're using a very fast weapon or sneak up on enemies
>Shields are almost always 100% Phys Reduction in DaS1
>In DaS2 you're lucky to get an 80% reduction before the first boss
>You get a 50% reduction shield with 10 stability in Bloodborne and that's it, you can't even parry with it
>Fast-Rolling is the best defensive option in DaS1 because of how safe it is and how little investment it takes
>DaS2 introduces the idea of tying dodge efficacy to a stat in order to balance it out against other options
>Bloodborne increases the instability multiplier to 200% which makes glancing blows turn into 80% hits or worse
Bloodborne did all these things in a much more punishing manner.
>>321688381
> Tfw I can't connect my console to the internet.
> Tfw Every area I played was at it's hardest.
> The Giant in Anor Londo doesn't even sell Twinkling Titanite, holy fuck.
>>321687746
Manus is hard. Fighting groups consists of circling them, and dinking one of them every now and then if they get out of position for five minutes. Or doing one spin attack with a halberd, killing all of them instantly, and then having to switch to one of your 7 other halberds because the durability system is broken.
It's tedious.
>>321688485
>fair bit of the mobbing enemies are fast, tanky, and aggressive.
Go ahead and list them then tough guyYou are actually going to say that hollow soldiers that die in 1/2 swings are actually a tough enemy because you didn't 1 hit them with your fist or something.
>>321688553
This guy knows what's up. Bloodborne did it way better.
>>321688175
>People went into DaS2 wanting to shit on it.
I would say it was actually the opposite, people expected DaS2 to be a masterpiece and got disappointed by its shortcomings (not that the whole second half of DaS wasn't a rushed mess). Also downgrades and the Faraam set looks like shit ingame
>>321688485
>a fair bit of the mobbing enemies are fast, tanky, and aggressive.
They're rarely tanky if you're properly geared for the occasion and BB puts any sort of speedy or aggressive behavior found in previous Souls games to shame.
>>321684686
In just about every one of those areas, you are given chokepoints or methods to give you some control over the engagement.
Funnel the swordsmen through the door to the area. Pull the archdrakes behind cover and then kill them. Black Gulch has enemies only pop up if you get too close to the tar pits, so its only problem is its tedious unless you book it. Even the wharf gives you chokepoints and places to bait enemies to come to you in a controlled manner without throwing knives or a bow.
If anything, most of the problems people have with Dark Souls 2 are more prevalent in Bloodborne, but I guess people turn a blind eye to that because youre rewarded for not pulling and retreating to the advantage which is exactly what youre supposed to do in DaS2. Who the fuck in their right mind would willingly walking into a room to get gangraped by a group of enemies instead of walk in, bait them to follow you to the only exit, and then pick them off slowly as theyre stuck in the door frame? If you do the former, you're a bad player and YOU are at fault, not the designer.
>>321688824
We can all agree on points like the downgrade. But people in here are mistaking them finding areas hard for bad game design. Plenty of other players breezed through them.
Also for all mob groups and bosses they complain about in 2 there is an alternative in 1 such as capra and dogs, 4 kings, mobs of hollows etc
>>321688752
Swordsman shits and those Knights with katanas in the lava area.
>>321689073
I hate those knights but they can easily be pulled and fought 1 at a time.
>>321688824
>people expected DaS2 to be a masterpiece and got disappointed by its shortcomings
That's the console fanbase. PCfats had more than a month to prejudge and make up their mind. The console players expecting an oeuvre were silly nostalgia babies who forgot how flawed DaS1 was. They expected DaS2 to surpass a fictional nostalgia fantasy version of DaS1. Not to mention how the PtDE release brought in shitloads of new fans who had been lectured by various e-celebs and others on why DaS is such a great game. They were told that they should like it and why to like it. But those reasons and facts don't always align with the developers intentions. Which is why half the fanbase get mad about PvP stuff as if that's the only important facet of the game, and the other half massively overvalue things like "shortcuts".
>>321689073
>Swordsman shits
Die in 2 hits with any decently upgraded weapon, die to 1 strong attack counterattack with a rapier.
>Alonne knights
Literally scripted to come at you 1 at a time with 10 or more seconds between each knight, if you bitch about Iron Keep ganking you then maybe you should consider not ignoring every enemy then bitching about how that backfiredThey also die in 1-2 hits with any high damage weapon and in 3 to a fucking longsword.
>from removes the absurd tracking and aggro distance from shrine of amana
>gives it to iron keep
>>321689073
>>321689235
Also, use a fucking mace, you know, the type of damage intended against armored enemies
It's nice to have a damage variety instead of only serrated or not
>>321688175
That pretty much sums up Dark Souls 2. A bunch of wonky band-aid fixes they half-commit to because they won't dare to actually change up the base game to the extent Dark Souls 1 did over Demon's Souls, or Bloodborne does over either. It would have been great if they spent their time creating a great experience instead of just trying to make the best tweaked version of Dark Souls 1 they could.
>>321688175
>tying dodge efficacy to a stat in order to balance it out against other options
>implying it still isn't the obviously superior option and just forces you to waste souls and levels on an otherwise worthless stat
>>321689437
>knows nothing about damage variety in Bloodborne
>bolt, fire, arcane, blood, serrated, righteous, thrust, blunt
I don't get why you had to lie.
>>321688025
Actually let me get the stats for it
You have to beat 19 bosses in Dark Souls 2 with most being mini bosses. You have to beat 9 in Bloodborne with no mini bosses.
Which makes me wonder.
There are 35 bosses in Bloodborne with the DLC. There are 41 bosses in Dark Souls 2 with the dlc. 32 in the base game and 30 in the base for BB.
Apparently only having to fight less than a third of the bosses in the game is better designed than having to fight over half?
You'd think in a game full of bosses you'd complaining at how much optional ones there is as opposed to the primaries but what do I know...
>>321680584
I don't count this guy as a boss at all. he's as much of a boss as the drake in DaS1.
>>321689574
Character builds matter. If you don't like stats governing your abilities, don't play RPGs. Whining about ADP is like whining that you need STR to use a big hammer.
>>321689363
They need to get rid of turntable tracking for me to give a shit.
You can never get the Amana Priestess' clothes, how do you deal with that feel?
>>321689065
Not to mention the same issues are prevelant in Bloodborne AND Demons Souls. Do people not remember Tower Knight, Phalanx, or Storm King? People will argue that those are easy or well designed bosses or have a trick to them but so are Ruin Sentinels, Double Dragonriders, and Ivory King. The ONLY problem with Dragonriders is that you fight one at the beginning of the game and it feels kind of like it was cheaply thrown in there just for the sake of needing a boss and Ruin Sentinels force you to take some fall damage in the fight.
Dark Souls 2 is nowhere near my favorite Souls game but if people are gonna shit on it they could at least shit on something that actually makes sense, like the fucking writing/lore being the worst the series has seen.
>>321688553
So basically we should praise BB for taking things a step farther than what Dark Souls 2 did that people hated... is what you're saying?
I think the point went over your head.
>>321689287
PCfats also didn't play DeS so DaS2 was only their second experience in the Souls world. I think most people that played DeS first understand best why DaS2 is a Soul-less and un fun game.
>>321688752
I understand that you DaS2 Downies like to stick with the same shit over and over, with your gurgled cries of "git gud" and bringing up the same early game encounters.
The forest of fallen giants is nothing compared to the fucking bullshit of Heide's post-dragonrider where all the small guys are hyperaggro'd, and are just so fucking badly animated that they lunge at you without even having a wind up animation. But this is still early game so you're still going to be a downy about it. How about all of the manikins they literally throw at you in Earthen Peak? Or the nothin personnel samurai who run faster than Sonic on fucking steroids? How about some of the DLC areas? Shulva, where you have a bunch of big dudes with maces everywhere. Brume Tower, where it crams you into a tiny fucking room with 3 ashen hollows, an archer, and a giant guy spurting lava and swinging a mace all over. And don't forget the classic areas before Blue Smelter and Clone Cats
Go ahead and double down syndrome on this fucking post. I fucking dare you to rebuke it without your sacred "git gud huhuhuh im a fuckin downie" meme
>>321689926
The dodging is way better than having a shitty i-frame stat.
>>321689654
>You have to beat 19 bosses in Dark Souls 2
What? You have to beat
1) Last Giant
2) Twin Dragonrider
3) Looking Glass Knight
4) Demon of Song
5) Velstud
6) Guardian Dragon
7) Watcher/Defender
8) Nadalia
Don't really think I missed any, the 4 great souls are 100% optional because the shrine of winter SM check is a thing
>>321689287
DS2 was bad. No fire skipping and infinite healing removed all the suspense. The tracking and parry revamp removed all the reward in learning enemies. No reason to reroll(respecs) and no pvp removed all its replayability. And because of the lighting rework everything looks like lost izalith with the washed out grey stone textures.
It was bad, just plain bad.
>>321689692
You don't have to use big hammers though, just like you don't need lots of stamina or HP unless you want to wear heavy armour or have lots of health. At some point you'll have no choice but to roll through an attack instead of tanking with a shield, so you have no choice but to raise ADP unless you're really really good at dodging.
>>321689638
Not him but against common mobs those damages mean basically nothing since you can R1 spam and regain on trades or ranged parry 90% of the game with no risk anyway. It only really matter at all on bosses.
>>321689437
>>321689638
Serrated and righteous aren't even damage types, they're bonus modifiers, like Divine / Occult, except they're actually fucking good and relevant throughout the game.
>>321689654
just jumping into this conversation; i don't think either one of those things intrinsically makes a game "better designed" or not
you have a lot of optional bosses or you don't.
>>321690068
BTFO
>>321690000
>and are just so fucking badly animated that they lunge at you without even having a wind up animation
Well glad we agree that you are literally blind, before doing that attack they freeze up and stand still for 2-3 seconds before lunging
If you were actually paying attention to the game and not trying to look for shit to dislike you would have noticed it.
>>321690102
>At some point you'll have no choice but to roll through an attack instead of tanking with a shield
No. That's simply not true. If you want the option to roll THROUGH stuff, you need to invest points. You don't need ADP to physically engage in the act of rolling and that's plenty enough to use as a spacing tool to avoid harm.
So how far into SotFS do you have to wait to get the Craftsman's Hammer, the most OP PVE weapon around.
>>321690110
>against common mobs those damages mean basically nothing
yeah ok try to R1 spam a brainsucker without a fire weapon and see how that goes.
>>321690068
I'm excluding the Shrine of Winter because I've never done it. But either way, you either get more content or you get less bosses than Bloodborne which is what the anon was complaining about when he wanted to skip a bunch of bosses.
>>321690068
Reasonably getting 1 million soul memory on killing trash mobs only is so tedious and not worth the effort that it kind of hurts your argument even if you are technically right.
Then again youll just say to add another boss to that list to farm anyway, like the Rotten which all speedrunners do farm to skip the majority of the game.
>>321690102
SL1 runs are a thing in DS2 too, you don't NEED ADP to do shit, shields are actually effective all the way to the endgame, you just need to pair them with actually moving and not just hiding behind it all the time.
>>321690121
My mistake, but even then, a big amount of enemies are vulnerable to serrated, and very few to righteous, serrated weapons almost invalidate the existence of other choices.
>>321690162
True. But as a guy who bought a game, I think I'd rather have more mandatory bosses thrown at me than not. Though I'm the type of person who explores everything so it doesn't matter either way
>>321690392
Just another reason Dark Souls 2 is tedious trash. You have to farm 1 million souls. What the fuck were they thinking?
>>321690392
If you wanted to be really autistic about it then you should just include Dragonrider and Chariot, then say "well go PvP"
The means of skipping bosses is irrelevant, the point is that they are by the definition optional, you do not have to kill them to beat the game.
Also any% just glitches through the world and nobody runs it anymore because its the stupidest thing
>>321673910
Fuck this place really.The fucking water is so anoying,
>>321675045
>Game has something that is actually, somewhat reasonably hard
>Epin hardcore Souls players complain about this
>Claim being challenged is a huge problem and makes the game inferior to DS1
Anyway, the way projectiles and enemy awareness work in Souls in general is hilariously ass.
>>321690495
>You have to
You don't have to
>>321673910
>Not having the Heavy Crossbow
>>321690419
I've never even upgraded adp on multiple characters on multiple playthroughs.
I've never even had an issue with it besides the odd slow reflexes and holy fuck is the Pursuer annoying on sl1.
>>321690613
Why do I need a bunch of souls to go around a pile of rubble?
>>321689926
No, I just don't get the reasoning behind the DaS2 whining.
The real problem with DaS2 is that it didn't live up to our hype, or the pre-release footage.
>>321690419
Offhand ladle / simpleton's ring are gigantic viability boosts for SL1 in DaS2. And even with them, you can't avoid shit like axe 1hr1s.
>>321690458
That's why righteous weapons are already super strong or capable of serrated too, like threaded cane and church pick.
>>321690248
>Well glad we agree that you are literally blind, before doing that attack they freeze up and stand still for 2-3 seconds before lunging
Which is still fucking horrible, because it honestly looks like the ai is having a stroke rather than displaying the animation that indicates that it's going to jump and lunge at you.
>If you were actually paying attention to the game and not trying to look for shit to dislike you would have noticed it.
Guess what, fucker? When Dark Souls 2 initially came out, I loved the fucking shit out of it and dismissed all of the criticism. So when I went to play through again, I was going at it like something I'd enjoy. Not the fucking shit heap pile of shit I got.
>>321690260
>You don't need ADP to physically engage in the act of rolling and that's plenty enough to use as a spacing tool to avoid harm.
But that's also wrong. One major reason why "shockwaves" is a common criticism is based on how ADP works. Your hitbox stays at the same place when you initially roll, so you get fucking hit regardless. ADP makes it so that hitbox doesn't detect damage for a frame or two
>>321690268
I was generalizing but okay, how about I parry him instead because if you cant R1 spam it, you can parry it from a safe range.
Bloodborne is my favorite Souls game so far but even I can agree that its combat is very simplified relative to the other games in the series. A majority of the enemies in the game that cannot be killed with R1 spam will absolutely die to a SAFE, RANGED PARRY and visceral attack OR a charge attack from one of the cheesier weapons in the game (Ludwigs, Hunters Axe, Rifle Spear, etc) The damage modifiers in BB only matter on bosses and MAYBE Kin when it comes to thrust damage but thats really the extent of it.
>>321683330
DS2 would have been fine if enemies did not animation cancel, skip frames to attack, or 360noscope track you during an attack.
It would have been manageable and felt like a challenge to fight three or five enemies at a time.
Instead they purposely let the AI cheat now and made the animations less clear and more spontaneous to prevent parrying of even trash mobs.
>>321690896
>But that's also wrong.
Not even a little.
>One major reason why "shockwaves" is a common criticism is based on how ADP works. Your hitbox stays at the same place when you initially roll, so you get fucking hit regardless.
So space yourself better. If doing it one way is resulting in getting hit, you should find a different way that results in NOT getting hit.
Literally: Git Gud.
>>321687640
Giant swarms of mobs are among the least challenging of all enemies in Bloodborne including the two bosses that work with that concept. As the Good Hunter your melee capacities and ranged weaponry easily allow you to tackle whole groups. Guns and pebbles also allow you to pick single enemies away from the group. The Yahargul villagers only get a bad rap because they're constantly respawned by bell maidens.
The most challenging battles in the game are literally versus enemy hunters which you encounter in the range of 1 to 3 throughout who have movesets similar to your own. That and the two shark giants which most admit is in fact bullshit if you try to take the fight seriously and not use a shaman bone blade.
They're not challenging because of simply attacking in a group, but because they are just as deadly to you as you are to them. Still, the most notable hunter adversary in the game that isn't a boss is a single encounter set in a large open space with no interference. Looking at you, Bloody Crow of Cainhurst.
>>321690896
>Which is still fucking horrible, because it honestly looks like the ai is having a stroke rather than displaying the animation that indicates that it's going to jump and lunge at you.
They are doing the anime powerup thing, refer to Maria. I'm sure you are a totally reasonable human being tough since you just bitches about a move that has 3 seconds of obvious animation not having any warning, and not a raging autist upset about being called out on being blind
>>321690663
I don't know how it is in SotFS, but in vanilla the Heavy Crossbow doesn't have enough range to get the drop of most of the Priestesses. My first time going through Amana with a dedicated Bow build was amazing, HBB was dropping them before they even got a shot off.
>>321690663
Dude no one wants to be pressured into playing in a certain way.Check the people in the thread,Some people in the tread (not me I'm a pyro casual) want to go full melee.I like DS2 because I can play the way I want to play.that shrine is exceptionally shit.
>>321690102
>no choice but to raise ADP
Who the fuck actually raises this stat
It's like resistance in dark souls, fucking worthless. Hope they remove it in the next game.
>>321690967
>Instead they purposely let the AI cheat now and made the animations less clear and more spontaneous to prevent parrying of even trash mobs.
Yes, fucking exactly
Too bad the only video that shows off how bad the animation is is the one video of the falconer speed waddling toward you while his torso flops about
>>321691067
>git gud downie memer
here's a pity (you)
>>321690876
Because the writing and world building in Dark Souls 2 is terrible. Which is something nobody here is refuting. This is strictly a discussion on how the gameplay is nowhere near as bad as people say it is.Please find a way to equate that bad world design in the form of a pile of rubble to being a bad element of gameplay because this shit is actually hilarious and I love it.
>>321689437
BB has Regular/Pierce/Strike/Blood for physical and Bolt/Fire/Arcane for elemental, Serrated and Righteous are just modifiers similar to Holy and Occult in DaS1.
>>321673910
There are people who whine about this level without having played through the unpatched version.
Fucking hilarious.
>Good level design
>>321691090
When the only tell for an attack makes it look like the game fucking broke and the enemy reverts to idle animation, that's fucking horrible design and you fucking know it
>>321691162
Counters to amana
1) A shield with high magic resist
2) Rolling (even fatrolling with base ADP will dodge those)
3) Any form of ranged attack
You have to be some kind of fucking downie who runs around without a shield, without rolling and without a weapon to actually have issues with shrine of amana. Really the ONLY people who have even the slightest right to bitch are people powerstancing UGSes and even then you are still 4 times as fast as the preists with their casting
>>321688887
Agreed, and I specifically like DS2 because the game was designed around giving you reason to set up situations like that.
>>321691162
>Ring with 50% chance to deflect spells
>Rings with heavy magic damage reductions
>Small Blue Burrs
>Spell Parry Shields
>Magic Barrier and Great Magic Barrier
>Magic infused shields
>Rolling
>Ranged options like Crossbows/Bows/Greatbows/Magic
I'm not seeing the issue. Pick one or more of the above mitigation options and move the fuck on
>>321691435
>idle animation
No their idle animation has them moving around or sitting down, of course you would notice this if you actually tried to learn the game instead of looking for things to nitpick about?
What are you even trying to do anon, you were flat out wrong, that attack is telegraphed harder than fucking demon of song/covetus, you were wrong on the internet, drop the subject like your mother dropped you as a child before you dig that hole any deeper.
>>321691083
>Guns and pebbles also allow you to pick single enemies away from the group.
How is this different from throwing knives, arrows, and soul arrows in DaS2 though? You can do the same thing.
>Yahargul villagers
But that's the point. You're supposed to cut off the bell maidens.
>enemy hunters
Agreed
>shark giants
Hell no, you can chain backstab and parry those bitches with extreme ease
>they are just as deadly to you as you are to them.
That's bullshit, they have maxed stats and defense and take fuckall from anything
>>321691167
Seriously man
>>321689654
How many optional bosses there are isn't really an issue in these games since they reward exploration and challenging yourself. They all do a good job of slapping something worthwhile on or behind optional bosses. Having more of them be optional is usually a big plus for speedrunners or people who want to run through the game a second/third time, and also allows new players to take different paths through the game and then share stories immediately after release, but if the game is made right people will still want to do the optional fights.
I don't even really consider chalice dungeons part of this though. They're literal generated filler content for people who are into that sort of thing, and the handful of unique things in them is because without anything interesting at all there'd be literally zero reason to do them. I'd much rather have had 1 extra main game area than the entire chalice system, and this is coming from someone who just beat the Queen for the first time an hour ago.
>>321691162
Just buy throwing knives to pull enemies. Even if you dont want to lame people at range, any ranged weapon is a useful tool to have for the purposes of pulling enemies to an advantageous position. That's one of the points of the entire series: Using what you have to turn a disadvantage into an advantage. If you want to never use any ranged option at all, you can run in, get aggro, and run away to cover with the melee enemies chasing you at Amana. Granted its not super easy, but its not impossible or as hard as people make it out to be. It's just that relative to the game leading up to that point its never something you were forced to do as much.
>>321691486
Don't forget, the game gives you a ring that grants 11% damage negation from magic right before Amana.
>>321688245
>BB is better because it's the same, but conveniently easier
Cool
>>321691426
>never ran around the Valley of Defilement in DeS
get a load of this kansas city faggot
>>321691091
There are bolts with increased range
>>321691162
Well that's your fault, the game is still doable full melee but if you don't want to adapt your strategies for when the game actually decides to do something different, that is up to you. STR, DEX, INT, and FAI all have methods to deal with ranged mobs.
>>321677280
Blighttown suffered from huge fps problems, but other than it was good.
I liked the Gutter as well, having to actually use the torch was a nice novelty
>>321687640
because the game mechanics adhere to mobs far better than souls
it's why the shadows of yharnim is a decent fight whereas shit like double dragonriders is dumb
>If I go in alone I can kill them in 7-9 hits each but they'll gang up on me and I die
>If I summon help they won't gang up on me but they each take way more hits to kill and I die
Fuck.
>>321688448
>i-frame stat is bad
Why?
This is why I love Souls. All the games are the same core, but so different in their design that everyone fucking hates each other when discussing which ones are better. It's always so beautiful to see.
[spoilers]I cant be the only one that considers all the games to be equal in positives and negatives and neither entirely better or worse than each other right? I can see how some are better or worse in some aspects but not as entire games.
>>321691260
Ruined my gameplay experience because I didn't want to tediously grind 1 million souls.
>>321677280
Only shitters hate these areas.
>>321691948
It's worthless.
>>321691948
>i-frame stat is good
Why?
>>321692004
You don't have to, just beat NG+ nadalia with my 200k SM twink
>>321692004
Then why didn't you collect the 4 great souls?
OMG why does DaS2 not have Steam cloud support?
I just bought the season pass instead of the SoTFS update because I ldidn't want to start over only to find my fucking saves have gone because it doesn't use Steam cloud...
JUST
FUCK
MY
SAVES
UP
FAMILY
>>321691946
Solve it the same way you solve any humanoid-sized problem in Dark Souls 2. Greathammer 2H R2. They start standing up, pancake them again until death. You can even do it to the Reindeer in the 3rd DLC.
>>321692147
>because it doesn't use Steam cloud
>Why are my saves not in the steam could if I don't use the steam could
A mystery for the ages indeed.
>>321692147
>he bought the DLC instead of buying SotFS
Are you fucking retarded?
>>321692109
>>321692071
How can it be worthless when it has a tangible, visible effect on gameplay and can make a difference in builds?
>>321692140
>>321692124
I only want to fight the mandatory bosses.
>>321692071
It's worth it if you exclusively roll since it DOES help during a very small amount of attacks, but its not necessary at all and from a design standpoint its terrible to let you have an entire stat govern that shit. You get so many souls and levels in DaS2 anyway that levelling up to 95 AGL isnt even much of an issue if you do it for preference unless youre minmaxing for a specific type of build.
>>321692147
I dunno, shits annoying as fuck having to manually trade the files over to other computers.
>>321692289
What are you even failing to say now?
>>321687640
Because Bloodborne actually gives you the right tools for mob control right at the start of the game.
>Hunter Axe becomes a polearm
>Hunter Saw gains range in trade for speed
>Threaded cane becomes a whip with a lot of horizontal coverage
>Blunderbuss staggers whole groups
>Molotovs have good splash range
Hell, even more late game weapons like Piercing Rifle and Beast Cutter are made with CC in mind.
>>321692275
Did you even read my post?
Normal saves don't work with SoTLS and I didn't want to start over. But Steam didn't back my saves up and now I am fucked.
>>321692276
When we say it's worthless we mean that it's a horrible stat that tried to deal with a problem in the previous game but failed miserably. Go look at the post about Bloodborne's dodge mechanic, and you'll see how to properly fix a problem without making a dumb stat.
>>321692447
>Bastard Sword
>halberd
>first enemy in the first are drops throwing knives
Keep at it anon, I'm sure you'll convince yourself at some point because you sure as shit ain't convincing anyone else.
>>321692351
That's the problem, it isn't necessary at all unless you're a complete shitter.
>>321692276
It doesn't make a difference. Learn to roll.
It was poorly implemented. There is no reason to level it if you're capping out your level for PvP or just having fun on PvE.
>>321691946
Parry and riposte the Archer, or just focus on him first thing. Then kill the katanna shitter, then Havel. Youre never on a time limit for this fight so you can kite the two shitheads while you go in and get a hit or two on the archer using the area underneath.
>Friend complains about mob encounters in the Souls series
>"What do you mean fighting without look on"
>>321692589
I'm doing a lvl 4 build in Bloodborne and I have access to these crowd controls weapons.
I'm doing a lvl 1 build in DaS2 and I don't have access to these weapons.
>>321692481
>Normal saves don't work with SoTLS and I didn't want to start over.
You're dumb and deserved what you got. Souls game are EXTREMELY replayable.
>>321692589
Halberd is pretty awful for groups in DaS2 man. The moment you encounter royal swordsman the weapon turns useless.
The sweet spot is awful for aggressive enemies and you can't just spin2win.
It's nothing like the Hunter Axe.
The best anti-group thing you get in DaS2 is Soul Greatsword and it's not acquired until the game is practically over.
>>321692481
>started over and reached level 100 in one day via rotten farming
really isn't that hard.
also, the soul memory mechanic literally encourages you to cheat items instead of spending souls to acquire them.
>>321692831
Ring of Strength and Ring of Dexterity, offhand Work Hook or Vessel Shield.
>>321692602
Personally I dont need, but I like having it anyway because I never level up my HP or Vit anyway and might as well level something up that can make some difference. Most i go is 12 vig 9 vit because flynns and i rarely get hit anyway from rolling since ive clocked so many fucking hours in this game, but i only even start to put anything into ADP after I hit 50/50 and dont want to dump stuff into Stamina since i like limiting myself to the softcap.
>>321692671
I can deal with the archer, but I've no idea how to separate katana guy and havel long enough to get in a hit or two without the other fucking my shit up. Those two stick to each other like glue.
>>321690606
There's nothing hard about ranging them with bows. It's just time consuming and tedious.
You fucking retarded faggot.
In an alternate world Dark Souls 2 wasn't fucked up by the publisher, and they had a whole extra year to finish it.
>>321687343
>I-it's not bad game design, you're just bad!
Yeah, this guy is exactly one of those guys.
>>321692589
It really helps that BB weapons have better overall movesets.
>>321692882
>and you can't just spin2win.
Says you, the best anti mob in DS2 are all the UGSes with a horizontal swing, or just having a brain and kiting enemies.
Mobs that gank in DS2 are not stronger than they were in DS1 or BB, they die in a few hits to any weapon that has at least some upgrades on it.
>>321686301
>ds2 launch
>choose explorer
>only get a dagger
>weapon breaks before the first hiede knight
>get another off one of the monsters
>both daggers break before the second bon fire
>LOL GET GOOD
it was tedious as fuck.
>>321692831
Deprived can use the dagger and club and everybody has the ability to kite enemies into an advantage or to their leash point. Sure its harder but its a SL1 is supposed to be a self imposed challenge to begin with. You also have access to throwing knives to individually pull enemies.
>>321693116
In an alternate world console were good enough to handle the lighting so it wasn't a dull grey everywhere.
>>321692998
Yeah sure let me just get through these hordes of enemies first, so I can obtain those items.
As opposed to Bloodborne where I can get them from the start.
I don't like DaS2's sweetspot mechanic, it really fucks over pole weapons. Very noticeable with the BKGA
Dark Souls 2 fanfags are truly a baffling group of people.
>>321693264
>Dagger broke because you're playing the afterthought edition on PC
No sympathy here.
>>321693264
Good thing that was fixed, and we don't have to complain about that anymore
>>321693060
Last time I fought them, I remember running through the water area below until they wound up getting separated for a short time, or baited out a large swing from Havel and quickly poked katana guy. Took fucking ages but it eventually worked.
You could always try toxic mist if that even works on them and dont mind cheesing them out.
>>321693269
We've come full circle. This just goes back to how tedious Dark Souls 2 is. Amazing.
on my first playthrough of das1 right now, how the fuck do i get past the two nigger archers in anor londo.
>>321693067
>Implying I'm not pointing out that bows are just an ass mechanic in Souls in general and the only distinction here is that the area is difficult enough that it makes you desperate to use such an asshat strategy in the first place
At least be consistent in complaining about something which is wrong with all the games.
>>321693657
get gud
>>321693362
Too bad DaS2 doesn't hand you the best gear and equipment right at the start, eh?
>>321693264
I started with explorer and had an extra dagger and the plethora of prepurchase weapons that look like cancer.
So what I gather here is that every time a game throws you enemies that are not close quarters 1v1 on a hallway it's bad design.
For such a hardcore fanbase, Soulsfags sure whine a lot.
>>321693653
Tedium is subjective, but okay. I'll keep playing my tedious game and having fun, which is also subjective.
>>321693653
A self imposed optional challenge run to intentionally avoid powering yourself up takes longer than one where you do.
So we have come a full circle, you are still full of shit and looking for the the most retarded of excuses to dislike a thing, amazing
>>321692903
>via rotten farming
How do I do this? I just bought the LoTFS seen as I have to start over anyway.
>>321693806
When a game forgoes an interest challenge by just cramming a room full of samey enemies with no openings then it is bad design.
Or when a boss isn't hard enough so they just add some ad enemis, that's bad design.
Or when a boss has an attack that literally covers 90s of the arena almost instantly, that's bad design.
Souls has always been known as tough but fair.
>>321693806
>that are not close quarters 1v1 on a hallway
Wouldn't open area be better design though? Also, every enemy needs to wave and bow before engaging
>>321693728
Yeah, bro! git gud ;^ )))
>>321693806
For such a nostagia goggled fanbase they sure like ignoring the fact that the entirety of DS1 that was not demons/anor londo is multiple enemy ganks.
Shit an entire area is built up on enemy ganks and enemies not dying
>>321693382
I loved pole weapons in DS1, but didn't use them in DS2. If the game fucks over how easy they are to use, then great, they're way too good to be that simple and cheesy.
>>321693806
>>321693806
It's just bad players not knowing how to adapt to an unfair situation by making it fair. The entire point of the series is overcoming obstacles that seem insurmountable or absolutely unreasonable with skill or pragmatism, but people still insist that an area is bad if you cant rush in and deal with it head on instead of being methodical.
>>321679459
The difficulty of DSII is fighting your patience instead of a tough enemy.
Every fight in DSII, base game not the expansion that I didn't play, is either 3+ enemies of medium health or one enemy of massive health. Sure, you can win if you circle for 30 seconds, take one stab, and then come back in a bit, or you could try to actually have fun and take three or more swings and get one-shot for trying to not have the fight take thirty minutes.
What was even the point of this faggot? Why didn't they change anything about him in SotFS? I would rather have an empty room instead of that joke of a boss.
>>321693840
>>321693843
Admitting to the game being tedious is all I wanted. Thanks. Now enjoy your shit.
>>321693790
if i remember correctly, explorer couldnt use any of the prepurchase weapons without dumping a few levels worth of stats.
>>321693986
>When a game forgoes an interest challenge by just cramming a room full of samey enemies with no openings then it is bad design.
You the undead burgh?
Oh my bad you must mean the deapt- hmm no that doesn't work either
How about demon ruins? No thats a few enemy types and gangangs?
The graves? No that literally has 3 enemies.
Dukes archives? No that just reskinned hollows
Is Anor Londo what you think of when you think of enemy encounter in DS1? Because nigga that shit was the exception not the rule.
>>321694321
Y-you too.
>>321694321
>SL1 runs are tedious
congratulations anon you have now cough up to everyone who played these games years ago.
>>321694369
Well the class couldn't use it efficiently, but it's still better than hitting with a broken weapon. It WAS a difficult class to pick, though.
>>321693806
>getting sniped by enemies outside of the game's render distance
>fair in any possible way
Even if it's just the one, it's still bullshit.
>fighting any enemy in DaS2 that has an overhead swing attack
>roll behind it during its wind up animation
>the very instant the wind up time ends, the enemy instantly faces the player and the weapon comes crashing down
This is pretty tame and civil for a DS2 thread, I'm impressed.
>>321693986
The area before Capra Demon is nothing but a hallway full of mob ambushes.
Also, the Shrine of Storms is a fucking pain in the ass with the flying sniping mantas, better slap that Thief Ring on, where is it? fuck if I know.
>>321694569
>Get hit this way one time
>Change my tactic
>Beat enemy with ease
>Continue having fun
You're casual beyond reckoning.
>>321694381
Dark 2 fanboys are truly a baffling people.
>>321694569
Whats that?
Can't hear you over the sound of circlestrafing and backstabbing everything not being the most optimal strategy.
Mild-mannered Pate did nothing wrong.
>>321694757
People who pretend that the entirety of DS1 was Anor Londo are even more so.
Try playing the game again, this time keep a look out for how often the game sends more than a single enemy at you.Who are we kidding, you don't even own a single one in the series
>>321694569
This shit annoys me but its nowhere near as exaggerated as people say it is. You just have to delay your roll a little longer and you know what enemies can do these attacks after your first time getting hit by them.
The hollow spear soldiers are the epitome of this shit though, they are above all the worst when it comes to tracking, even worse is theyre in the first area so they leave a bad first impression.
>>321694665
>comparing those god tier characters on the right and left to that shit in the middle
>>321693986
>>321694751
Dark and Demon's enemies were better designed than Dark 2 enemies, so a group could actually pose a fair and fun challenge.
In Dark 2 they would just swarm, swivel around to face you no matter where you are and leave you no opening.
You guys have to be baiting.
>>321693806
Basically, the game is build around assuming that you've already played DS1 and are going to try to cheese everything anyway. So the whole game is set up to counter the obvious shit that worked before and make you work to set up openings yourself.
The thing is, you could already do all this in DS1, is just that you didn't have to as much because the game let you fight things in more naive and 'honourable' ways, even though there was nothing stopping you from bullshitting everything. DS2 shuts this down and forces you to rely on fundamentals. A ton of people seem to hate this.
>>321693264
>Don't rest at bonfires to fix weapons
>Hurr why does it break
>>321694896
(You)
No one going to defend sweetspot mechanics? It completely ruined otherwise good weapons
>>321694756
>>321694758
Not the fucking point. You have no way of dodging that shit on your first encounter. How's that for "tough but fair"?
>>321694879
What?
>>321694879
>trying this hard
Not even him, but you and DSII are a joke.
>>321694879
Post Londo is pretty shit, but nowhere near as bad as Dark 2.
>>321693940
You kill the rotten. Burn. Kill Rotten. Repeat.
Hundreds of thousands of souls.
No summons for more. Easy boss.
>>321694909
>and leave you no opening
Are you the "heide knights don't have windups" guy again? Who are you hoping to convince by just lying
>>321694909
>Wheel Skeletons
>Fair and fun
I'll agree on enemies just swarming in DaS2 though, but they also did that in DaS1 and DeS, its just not as problematic since backstabbing is safer and easier.
>>321695026
No, it doesn't even get to lick the dirt of DS2's boots for how shit post-londo is.
>>321695005
>You have no way of dodging that shit on your first encounter
So fucking what? Take a sippie and move on.
>How's that for "tough but fair"?
It's perfectly fair because it's YOUR fuck up that got you killed. Stop blaming the game when you fuck up.
>>321694909
>Manta sniping
>fair and fun
>fun
did we play the same fucking game?
>>321694293
>or you could try to actually have fun and take three or more swings and get one-shot for trying to not have the fight take thirty minutes.
How many DS1 bosses are 'actually hard' then?
>>321695117
>Wheel Skeletons
I actually forgot about their existence. Fuck you.
>>321694992
>sweetspot mechanics
Definitely the worst part of the game by far.
The ruined my weaponfu halberd.
>>321695080
Do they have windups compared to White/Black knights?
Nope.
They have no tells to show which attack it is before it's happened.
>>321695167
Wear the thief ring, numbskull.
>>321695247
Holy shit you are. Goddamn anon you were wrong, how hard is it to accept that?
>>321695310
How is that any different than equipping a crossbow for Shrine of Amana?
>>321695140
>enemies instantly snapping their rotation to the player's direction without warning is somehow related to player performance
Not to mention it looks fucking cheap and ridiculous.
>>321695005
>"tough but fair" means "I should be able to beat everything first time by applying the same strategy I've used with everything else"
>>321695332
>everyone who disagrees with me is the same person
>>321695210
What does that matter? We're talking about 2, not 1.
>>321694981
Here I fixed it for ya
>>321695332
actually that's a different anon
but it must be hard for your downie brain to find out the difference
>>321695438
>enemies instantly snapping their rotation to the player's direction without warning is somehow related to player performance
Yes it is. You didn't respond appropriately or judge that likelihood of that occurring. You got hit, your ego got wounded and you decided to blame the game rather than admit your own shortcomings. In summary, you're a whiny crying baby.
>>321695442
Well I honestly hope that not 2 people are this blind but whatever.
The enemies with the shortest windups are the alonne knights, and they are still telegraphed to all hell
>>321695220
Imagine wheel skeletons, but with more damage, smaller hitboxes, and they also deal bleed damage and deal DOT if you're too close to them.These things do actually exist.
>>321695026
Undead burg is mostly a bunch of enemies thrown at you at the same time.
Same for the Parish. Hell, the area immediately before the gargoyles is literally a group of like, 8 enemies bumrushing you while an asshole buffs them and casts spells.
Also remember fighting crystal golems with the hydra in the background?
Or the forest area where you take 2 wrong steps while fighting one of the guardians and have to fight ANOTHER?
Or how about running through Blighttown with toxic darts constantly pelting your asshole while you try to fight enemies?
Or maybe Sen's Fortress where you run into multiple lizard assholes?
Oh god, I forgot to mention fighting groups of enemies in the Depths
Also having to deal long-range royal gargoyles shitting lightning at you in Anor Londo
Yeah, DaS1 never sent groups of enemies at your pre-Anor Londo. Not at all.
>>321695472
Actually, the suspicious beggar, or Fake Iosefka would be more comparable to Yurt.
>>321695459
Go facefuck O&S/capra/whatever without any stamina management and see how well that works out for you.YOU DIED
>>321695232
>hitting things with the pole like a retard no longer accomplishes anything waaah
Acquire decency.
>>321688175
Fuck you retard, I'm sick of you idiots using "YOU WENT IN WANTING TO SHIT ON IT". It's a horse shit implication AND it gives away that it was your first game in the series.
Dark Souls was, for a time, my favorite game ever. Why the fuck would I go into its sequel, day one, wanting to shit on it? It's a fucking awful game compared to its predecessors for a massive number of reasons. It does NOTHING better than any other game in the series and does everything far worse.
>>321695232
I can't even use the Crescent Axe because the sweetspot is so retarded, or the DSCA again because that terrible sweetspot
>>321695247
You know what attacks they can do. That alone should tell you what is safe and what isnt. They do a three hit finishing with the overhead? Punish and roll back. If you get behind them, they do the quick backstab protection attack. If they do the slow winding up dashing swipe, stay just out of range and roll in with a rolling attack to anticipate it and punish as its finishing up. It's not fucking rocket science. Tells are only necessary when an enemy has a fucking gigantic moveset, these guys have THREE ATTACKS.
>>321695615
>judge the likelihood of the game blatantly cheating you in your face
You're right, not something I usually do when people keep dismissing that "artificial difficulty" meme.
>>321695232
>ruined
>halberd
Nigga the halberd is top-tier and carried me through my first playthrough.
Get. Fucking. Good.
>>321695619
jesus fuck, you downie, go play some shitty i wanna be the guy clone
>>321695719
What the hell are you even talking about?
>>321695670
>all well designed, manageable enemy challenges
>vs Dark Souls 2's philosphy of designing a room, filling it with enemies, then putting in a handful more enemies just for the sake of it
>>321695619
please explain then why it is impossible for someone to 100% parry any mob in DS2 as the world records clearly show
>>321674429
>homing magic arrows from the other side of the map
>try to boot it and make a dash to attack
>pitfall
>>321695817
Go play DS1 buddy, wait you can't because you have trouble seeing the telegraphed moves of 2 so everything must literally be teleporting for you in 1.
>there are now dark souls II defenders because it was their first in the series
>the force awakens awoke a blossoming generation of prequel defenders
>tons of people now consider PS2 games too outdated
what a time to be alive
>>321686301
>"I didnt get a proper answer to my 'git gud' comment" >:(
>>321695636
Eh, they die in one hit anyway and go a little slower, i think theyre easier personally. The areas theyre in are an abortion because of Maldron and the invader though.
>>321695810
>the game blatantly cheating you
Nobody got cheated. You thought your maneuver of choice would be effective. It wasn't. Pick a different maneuver.
>>321695716
Brador is pretty good too.
I'm probably the only person that thinks No-Man's Wharf is a well designed area all thorough.
>>321695459
>I'm a fuckface who has to cop out of any actual argument
>>321695812
>No pokes
Its shit, complete shit.
>>321695957
>because it was their first in the series
No it wasn't
>>321695957
>there are people who play videogames
Truly the worst.
>>321695862
Your nonexistant point.
>is either 3+ enemies of medium health or one enemy of massive health
Enemies are at comparable strenght in all the games as long as you don't go out of your way to gimp your character, bosses have always been about getting 1/2 hits in then waiting for an opening and repeating.
>>321686301
This isn't even a dark souls 2 thread, you fucking contrarian faggots just hijacked it and ruined it like every souls thread in this god forsaken shithole.
>>321695957
>there are now dark souls II defenders because it was their first in the series
Or they got SotFS and realized that DaS2 is not that bad after fixes.
>>321695980
Read the post he was quoting, you fucking autist.
>>321693657
Have you tried getting good?
>>321695913
Except 1 is a lot better in the animation department, as you can tell what the enemy is trying to do, even with a shorter wind up by virtue of actually being a competent game and having an animation showing them preparing to attack if even for a few frames rather than staying fucking still you fucking stupid retard fuck "git gud" meming downie
>>321696053
And what does that have to do with anon's perspective of his first playthrough of DS2?
Nothing? Good.
>>321695957
Nah, I defend DS2 a bit because all the other games had bullshit parts, but it's somehow a cardinal sin when DS2 does it. DAMN YOU B TEAM. Who's B-TEAM? I don't know it's just something /v/ loves to say.
>>321695812
No, DS2 haters just despise balance changes that force you to actually become skilled in something good in order to make proper use of it. That's alI understand.
>>321696110
>Read the post he was quoting
I did. I'm the one who fucking typed it out. He feels entitled to having his tactics always work and considers it cheating when an enemy counters his strategy.
I pretty much only play quality for pvp purposes. I haven't played since sotfs launch.
Whats a good stat spread I should aim for now? And any weapons I should be looking out for?
So, I was thinking about getting a PS4. Is BB similar to DeS, DaS or DaS2?
>>321696145
>Except 1 is a lot better in the animation department
It's waaay worse in the animation department, everyone acts like fucking robots in an anime with 20 frames of windup, 1 frame of attacking, then 30 frames of recovery.
The fact that the enemies make no attempt to track you just makes it look that much worse
>>321673910
you need to start with a good level design, OP.
>>321695957
This. I have multiple friends that started with Dark Souls 2 because of they fell for the advertised "le hard xD git gud" meme. They all hate the other games.
Meanwhile, most of the traditional fans love Bloodborne even though it's different.
>>321696009
It is, people just dont know how to deal one bonfire and enemies that get stunlocked to death in one combo or hold a fucking torch when dealing with the dudes afraid of the light.
>>321694665
Shouldn't pate be the one in the middle?
>>321696253
Sanctum mace.
>>321696207
DS2 does it far worse than the other games combined, but you wouldn't know that because it's the first souls game you've played.
>>321696264
(you)
>>321696009
I think Wharf is conceptually designed well, the use of lighting is nice, especially in SotFS. The main complaint I have is that if you know where you're going, you can finish that area in like 30 seconds. Most areas in Souls games are like that, but this one sticks out for being such a bad example of it.
>>321696009
I don't even know what constitutes as "well-designed area" anymore but I liked No-Man's Wharf, didn't like the whole mobs rushing at you when you enter the ship part but it seems like it's somewhat different in SotFS
>>321673910
>tfw no rusty iron ring
>>321696263
Complete opposite of Dark Souls 2.
Which means it's good.
>>321696334
Pate was more akin to Patches. Creighton was the bloodlusty maniac.
>>321696398
Yup. Pretty much. You got outplayed by an AI and blamed the game because you feel like it's your right to always win.
>>321682594
I'm always amused by people who think DS2 was the only game with bullshit hitboxes.
>>321695879
Dark Souls' design is better, yes, but it follows the same philosophy of forcing you to fight multiple enemies at a time. It's just the level design of DaS1 was better, and allowed for better fights.
However, nothing in DaS2 comes CLOSE to post-Anor Londo. The level design and enemy placement there is fucking horrendous on all accounts.
>>321696376
Don't worry anon I'm sure you'll understand why DS1 animations look retarded one day
>>321696253
Drakekeepers Greataxe, but its a strength weapon. It's moveset is amazing though.
>>321696263
yup. If you liked the darker themes of DeS you will love this game. Feels great to play. DLC is top notch as well.
>>321696252
>the AI cheating via skipped frames, unlimited tracking, and animation canceling is okay as long as it forces you to change your strategy
How old are you?
>>321673910
This was the exact moment in which I got gud at DS2
>>321696509
DELETE THIS
>>321696252
That's not "countering". If it is, then so is using an aimbot in any first person shooter.
I never said I wanted to use the same tactic for every enemy, but having a "fuck you, here's a magical rotation snap at the point of impact because we can't be bothered to make any animation at all for this shit" is cheap and lazy.
>>321696292
>They all hate the other games.
That's hilariously understandable and rational.
>>321696263
No, its not like any other Souls game in the slightest. It's got a similar core and basic mechanics, but it plays entirely different.
>>321696509that hud is fucking delicious, what's it called?
>>321696534
Not him, but Dark Souls 2 animations are disgusting. Have you ever looked at how stupid your character jogs in Dark Souls 2? Looks like he's shuffling across the ground like a retard.
>>321696556
It's not cheating. You're just a whiny child. It's literally that simple. Anything you define as cheating is absurd. The game gets to define what cheating is. If the game does it, it's not cheating.
>>321696252
>counters
I didn't know CHIM shit was countering.
In most games, skipping necessary frames and aimbotting can get you banned.
>>321696408
Bloodborne is far from demons tier
>>321696556
>the AI cheating via skipped frames
[citation needed]
>unlimited tracking
[citation needed]
>animation canceling
[citation needed]
The only here being a child is you, instead of accepting the different enemies need different approaches you sit there whining about how the game is "cheating"
>>321696693
Instead of how he trudges along like he's walking knee-deep in molasses? Not much improvement either way.
>>321696263
Bloodborne is a bit of DeS, a bit of DaS, and a lot of its own thing. It has a hub and warping, but the interconnected world of DaS.
In my opinion, Bloodborne with expansion is easily the best souls game. It has the best good-to-bad boss ratio, the best level design, the best atmosphere and the best setting/art design. It also has the best gameplay by far, every weapon is over twice as complex.
Como un pulso que golpea las tinieblas.
>>321696619
>That's not "countering".
Yes it is. He thought he'd be clever and roll behind it for free hits or a backstab. This was countered by the enemy rotating 180 and smashing him.
>I never said I wanted to use the same tactic for every enemy, but having a "fuck you, here's a magical rotation snap at the point of impact because we can't be bothered to make any animation at all for this shit" is cheap and lazy.
Oh so now you're gonna pretend to just huttburt about animations? Really now? Grow the fuck up.
>>321696534
>animations accurately reflect the weight of the weapon being swung
>doesn't disco turntable 720 degrees
>doesn't look like the game broke
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSZUZRnB15s
keep in mind that this is your gold standard of animation that you are defending
>>321696408
A true master's taste. But I love Dark Souls just as much as BB and DeS
>>321696693
Have you ever looked at enemies attacking in DS1?
I mean really taken a second to appreciate how fucking retarded they look if you just step slightly in any direction after they start their swing?
DS2 has its fair share of issues, the animations are not one of them
>>321696509
Iron Golem is one of the most garbage fights in the game. He's either stupid easy or just tedious and irritating, with nothing in between. There's no way to have fun fighting him. He's easily worse and more forgettable than almost every DS2 boss.
>>321696801
Yeah with armor on.
>>321696764
They're both around the same quality overall.
DeS had the most creative bosses in the series but there was tons of stuff that was too well hidden, like anything tied to world tendencies.
DaS1 was even worse.
>>321696805
yeah this is why I am so excited for DaS3. It takes the coolest mechanics and themes from DeS, DaS1, ad Bloodborne. I can't fucking wait.
>>321697010
>not wearing armor
Could you be any more of a faggot?
>>321696924
Please explain how its bad. Because even if you step away, they don't fucking 360 no scope you
>>321696817
>This was countered by the enemy rotating 180 and smashing him.
Someone in the world actually thinks this is acceptable. It's clearly not even planned by the devs. The enemies have no turning animation during it. It seriously looks like those webms of someone going up against a laggy invader and reality warping into a backstab.
>>321696892
Go fight a snakeman
Take a step backwardsEveryone in DS1 is fucking braindead and it looks retarded because they never attempt to correct anything mid swing
>playing Bloodborne these past few days after only playing DaS2 for months and not played DaS for over a year
I forgot this feeling
the feeling of a world created with care to detail
>>321696376
>You just played DS2
>but wh-
>BECAUSE I SAID SO
yeah, no. Eat shit and die faggot. I was playing King's Field before you learned how to not shit your pants.
>>321691616
In DaS2 you can't aggro individuals. For instance, that path with like 4-6 whip guys before the chariot boss- if you try to aggro just one of them to jump off their pillar, they will all jump down and attack you.
And groups in Bloodborne are easily defeated in two or three hits, compared to the groups of enemies in DaS2 which take much longer to kill, such as the aforementioned whip guys or the knights in the hall before Velstadt.
>>321697046
my friend beat Bloodborne without ever finding Hemwick, cainhurst, or upper cathedral ward. I berated him pretty hard ab out that. WHERE'D YOU GET THAT ARMOR BRO!? WHAT GUN IS THAT?!?!
>>321679459
STOP
USNIG
THE
FUCKING
LOCK-ON
>>321696509
This brought back unwanted memories. Thank god for Tarkus.
>>321697148
>if you try to aggro just one of them to jump off their pillar, they will all jump down and attack you.
That is incorrect and you know it, you chucklefuck.
>>321697107
>Someone in the world actually thinks this is acceptable.
Of course I do. It makes the enemies more threatening and demands higher skill from the player.
>. It's clearly not even planned by the devs.
Clearly! That's why it never got changed after a year of patches and full re-release with improvements.
> The enemies have no turning animation during it.
Literally irrelevant. If there was an animation for it, you'd still be screaming and whining about how they rotated to hit you.
>>321697106
Because they won't 360 noscape you if you step away from them in 2 either, an overhead wont suddenly turn into a jumping attack just to track you.
Enemies on DS2 pivot around
Enemies in DS1 never attempt to correct a swing once its started, so just stepping to the side 2 inches during their windup makes them wiff and look braindeadThis is the point where you argue that the enemies were meant to look utterly retarded because they are undead or something
>>321696509
DaS had some shitboxes, but DaS II has way more bad ones on average. The instance in that webm has NEVER happened to me, but I've been killed by giant lord, ancient dragon, smelter, and countless other shitboxes in DaS II.
It's a fucking sequel, it should IMPROVE the hitboxes instead of making people go "well the first game's were almost as bad anyway!"
>>321697148
>if you try to aggro just one of them to jump off their pillar, they will all jump down and attack you.
Ha, aha, ahahahaha!
>>321697046
>no secrets
>no illusionary doors
>All builds play the same
>Everything is grimdark.
>No armor, cloaks only
>minimal weapons.
>R1 spam centered combat
>Ranged parrys
BB is on par with vanilla DS2
>>321696772
DS2 must have been your first game.
It is indisputable that in DS2 enemies have much better tracking, shorter or nonexistent tells for what type of attack, and do not follow the rules when swapping weapons to attack.
>mfw BB was a great game and was the prototype for Dark Souls 3
>mfw looking at Dark Souls 3 and seeing all the Dark Souls 1 animations and design
It's going to be a glorious Miyazaki masterpiece.
>>321697148
>In DaS2 you can't aggro individuals. For instance, that path with like 4-6 whip guys before the chariot boss- if you try to aggro just one of them to jump off their pillar, they will all jump down and attack you.
Keep on lying anon, I'm sure someone will take it at face value
You can agro the guys before chariot by just walking up to certain parts in NG
You have to use a bow to agro specific ones in NG+
>>321697229
>Stopped using lock on against mobs and giant enemies
>Suddenly the games are less hard overall
Rom and Ruin Sentinels are such a piece of cake, it's hard to believe I struggled.
>>321697125
After playing BB, I can easily return to DaS and DeS, but not DaS II. DaS II is just so fucking clunky, slow and unresponsive. There is no reason to play DaS II instead of BB, DaS, or DeS, the only thing I enjoy fighting in DaS II is fume knight and alonne, which are nowhere near good enough to slog through the whole game.
>>321697359
Speaking from my own experience, I've never found any of the four games to have hitbox issues on my playthroughs.
I think peoples' first experiences with things in these games colors their opinions.
>>321697427
Depends on what patch you are playing.
DS2 has changed radically since 1.03
>>321697303
>It makes the enemies more threatening and demands higher skill from the player.
Not really, no.
>Clearly! That's why it never got changed after a year of patches and full re-release with improvements.
It did. You just had to pay for a $60 patch.
>you'd still be screaming and whining about how they rotated to hit you.
I'm not even the guy that was complaining about that. I'm telling you it's bullshit because it's obviously a rushjob that so incomplete that arguing that it's acceptable makes you look dumb.
>>321697359
And not a single instance of bad grabs has ever happened to me in 2 but every tianite demon was a bitch with their lingering hitboxes especially on the tail.
What do you know anecdotal evidence got it's name for a reason.
>>321697414
>trusting the network test
DS2's network test was radically different from what we got.
>>321697389
Alright. I'll bite
>no secrets
75% of players never find the Upper Cathedral Ward or fight Ebrietas, Daughter of the Cosmos.
>no illusionary doors
Literally wrong
>All builds play the same
Nope
>Everything is grimdark.
Sure
>No armor, cloaks only
Also wrong
>minimal weapons.
There's around 20+ now and each one counts as two because of the transformation gimmick
>R1 spam centered combat
>Ranged parrys
These are somewhat legitimate though.
>>321697414
Calling it a prototype is retarded, it's different from the rest (including das 3) in a big number of ways. In ten to fifteen years, BB will be remembered as that one weird one.
>>321697148
That's incorrect. They all come alone if you wait them out right outside the aggro range.
>>321696263
DO NOT PLAY BB WITHOUT THE DLC.
The whole base game is a borefest and 2ez which is I think is worse than base game DaS2. The DLC makes everything better and is the best souls game of all.
For those playing BB first time. ALWAYS DODGE. Evading is much more simpler and easier. In BB the wait and bait works for some enemies but is highly recommended that you get aggresive as the poise in this game is reconfigured.
>>321697406
They have better tracking but you claimed they have unlimited tracking
They have windups but you claim they skip frames of animation
And I have no idea what you mean by weapon swapping to attack.
But hey as long as you don't touch DS1 you should be fine, the way shorter windups in that game would fuck your shit up for sure
>>321697545
Titanite Demon has fucking atrocious hitboxes, I can't deny that. I hate fighting those faggots but I love the Gravelord Sword so much, and I need those upgrades.
>>321697542
>Not really, no.
But actually yes. Since it stymies the simplest and most common style of PvE cheese:Rolling behind and backstabbing or button mashing.
>It did
No it didn't. I've played SotFS.
>I'm telling you it's bullshit because it's obviously a rushjob that so incomplete
They spent a year patching it and developing a revised version. It's not a rushjob they just don't care because they're not raging autists like you.
>>321697554
Yeah, radically WORSE
>>321697113
Give me a webm of this. I'm not going to start a new game to prove a downie wrong, great as the game is
>>321697331
It won't turn into a jumping attack, but the attack comes out too fast to walk back from and backstepping and rolling backwards is pointless because of how the hitboxes work and a death sentence if you're in precarious terrain
>>321697608
Prototype for graphics and fast combat.
>>321697627
>2ez
>poise
>BB
are you retarded? BB has no poise at all and is by far the hardest souls game, if you thought the base was worse than dark souls 2 you might be retarded.
>>321697389
Almost all of these are incorrect. In fact, a lot of the areas in BB are way out of the way, like Nightmare Frontier, the Abandoned Workshop, or Upper Cathedral Ward.
>>321697739
Why the fuck did they take the spell charging off?
>>321673910
Fuck. This level wasnt THAT bad, but you couldnt run through it.
It takes a while to figure out how to fight everything there, so I tried running through instead.
Worst decision of my life. That place is impossible to run through.
>>321697756
Maybe, but I think BB will probably always be my favorite. I have a huge unquavering erection for Lovecraft, victorian gothic horror, and transforming weapons. I think DaS 3 will probably be the best Dark Souls game though.
>>321697389
All of those points are either exaggerations or just untrue.
>no secrets
Define "secrets". There's plenty of optional stuff that can be missed.
>no illusionary doors
Illusionary walls have always been stupid, especially the ones that had no indication of being there.
>Everything is grimdark
Now that's just silly.
>>321697554
But I never liked the network test for DaS2 and I never like the game itself.
The DaS3 network test was pretty good.
>>321697389
>no secrets
you can miss whole areas without ever knowing
>no illusionary doors
chalice dungeons only
>All builds play the same
this is funny. tell me a kirkhammer user plays the same as a blades of mercy or cane user
>Everything is grimdark.
true for the most part, but it's called a fucking theme.
>No armor, cloaks only
lots of cool clothes to wear IMO. cainhurst armor is the closest you will get to heavy armor though
>minimal weapons.
no. there are 26 mainhand weapons all with different movesets and playstyles. unlike DaS2 that had a lot of weapons that all had the same moveset
>R1 spam centered combat
again. no. this might work in the first area, but not later on. You need to learn to dodge. defiled chalice dungeons are unbeatable unless you learn
>Ranged parrys
I don't see the problem really. most enemy attacks have such range you are going to get hit if you miss the parry anyway
What the fuck is the point of the shrine of amana? There is no lore significance to this place, no reason it should even exist. Every area [spoilers] other than the depths[/spoilers] had a reason of existing in the Dark souls universe, Painted world was created for the express purpose of locking away all the things that were dangerous to gods, Blight town was a normal town until the egg servant started messing with pyromancy. What the FUCK is the point to the shaded forest or Earthen peak. This pisses me off the most and completely ruined Dark souls 2 for me.
>>321697930
It doesn't stop the final build from being bad in the end.
>>321697740
>Give me a webm of this. I'm not going to start a new game to prove a downie wrong, great as the game is
I'm sorry anon I'm not going to go out of my way to make a webm so I'm just going to give you my first google result.
https://youtu.be/j8CkUn8pYGA?t=43s
Oh look its snakemen acting like retards and not correcting their moves at all if the player moves and it looks dumb as all hell.
>but the attack comes out too fast to walk back from and backstepping and rolling backwards is pointless because of how the hitboxes work and a death sentence if you're in precarious terrain
So that it? You are claiming that circlestfaring because no tracking isn't a thing in DS1 and that you can't roll backswards in 2? Aren't you the biggest collection of memes around.
>>321697724
>Since it stymies the simplest and most common style of PvE cheese
This point means nothing, because when most people think of the 360 noscoping, they're talking about the giant guys in armor who use clubs who CAN'T be backstabbed.
>They spent a year patching it
>a year
>It's not a rushjob
These statements are contradictory.
>>321697389
There's illusory walls in the dungeons. Freaked the fuck out off me when I found out.
>>321696408
rating games in extremes like this is god damn retarded.
BB, DeS and DaS are 9/10 games, DaS II is 8.5/10.
Everything about BB just turns me off completely
>Victorian aesthetics
>Lovecraftian monsters
>Weapon designs
>Lore
>Atmosphere
>Sonyshills
Only thing it does decently is being a waifu creator, but it doesn't matter since the female version of armors are shit
>>321697841
Most likely because it would have been broken in PvE.
The spell system was the only good part of it.
Everything else was flat out broken.
100-0% longsword r1 spam stunlock.
Unavoidable guard breaking Lightning Spear taking half your health.
WAR ZWEI.
Broken animations online, enemies did not play stun animations.
>>321697871
I feel you. Bloodborne was an amazing experience with story, design, and gameplay. Top notch with barely anything wrong with it. I wish there was more of it, so I'm hoping Dark Souls 3 borrows a bit of its greatness.
>>321697778
That's what I'm saying the poise is reconfigured or almost non existant that's why being aggressive is a much more rewarding experience.
BB is a fucking cakewalk. You must be one of those shitters that uses shields from DeS up to DaS2. BB is only hard if you don't fucking know how to dodge and play unlock. Rolling than quickstepping is much easier on bigger enemies like Amelia, Amygdala Cleric Beast etc.
>>321696509
Dark Souls 2 actually had perfectly normal hitboxes.
The shockwaves actually arose from the player's hurtbox lagging behind them when rolling. When you rolled the animation for your character model and your hurtbox would be out of sync, which meant attacks could hit you even if you dodged them perfectly.
This was never patched out, either, so it's an intentional design flaw.
>>321698018
You lorefags are the worst
>>321698052
>because when most people think of the 360 noscoping, they're talking about the giant guys in armor who use clubs who CAN'T be backstabbed.
that doesn't change anything. Button mashing while an enemy swings at thin air is the easiest and simplest tactic. It's good they countered it on several enemies.
>These statements are contradictory.
No they aren't. Any game that gets more than 12 months of post-release attention can't be called a rushjob,
>>321697303
If there was an animation for it, I would never have started this argument.
Or just make the enemy continuously rotate towards the player, or something.
The entire point is that there is just nothing but an instant rotation snap that looks completely unnatural and doesn't give any fair warnings.
>>321697389
>R1 spam centered combat
>Ranged Parries
Ah, I think I spotted the shitter.
>>321698076
>female version of armors are shit
nah. I will be forever jealous of the female yharnam hunter set.
>>321697608
it's a bit different, but it still feels like a souls game.
Ranged parries are pretty dumb to be honest, no risk high reward.
>>321696509
Do you always play without the cursor being disabled, or was this a temporary case of being a mouth-breather?
>>321697389
This is basically copypasta at this point.
>>321698076
Have you played it?
>>321698250
>The entire point is that there is just nothing but an instant rotation snap that looks completely unnatural and doesn't give any fair warnings.
And once it happens once, you know to expect it and watch for it and you try other tactics. Stop fucking blaming the game because your ego got bruised.
>>321688654
Thats what I went through on my first playthrough. Still isnt as bad as my friend who went through tomb of the giants with no light source. he didnt know you needed to hold the lanturn in the left hand
>>321698018
There's no point to any of the shit in that game, anon. Keep in mind you need to kill a bunch of shit to get over a pile of rubble.
>>321698076
Female Knight set is cool as fuck, with the styled skirt.
I like getting eaten by the demon of song
What do you guys think it's like in there?
>>321697389
>i have never played the game please rape my face
castle cainhurst is a secret practically on par with ash lake or the painted world, so is the upper cathedral ward and especially ebrietas. There are also a lot of really obscure things unlocked only through hidden npc quests like the executioners covenant/helmet/weapon, henryks set and gestures, and befriending djura.
Arcane and Bloodtinge builds play vastly different from melee builds
Everything being horror-focused is not a criticism, it's a design choice you disagree with. Dark Souls was even more depressing/hopeless, bloodborne is just more overt.
There is a suit of armor
There are 26 weapons that are all have more moves than 2 souls weapons at once.
R1 spam is just as valid as in the rest of the series, it only applies to some weapons and even then is an exaggeration. It will get you killed and is not efficient.
Ranged parries are kind of dumb.
>>321696805
Upper Cathedral Ward > Tower of Latria
>>321698428
How is it NOT a flaw in the game?
Bloodborne just feels like they removed everything which made the Souls titles good which I guess is fine since they go out of their way to insist its NOT souls game
>>321694278
>it's just GITGUD GIT GUD GEEEEETTT GUUUDDDD
Worthless comment.
Downvoted.
>>321698227
>that doesn't change anything.
Your only reasoning for why it was good was that it discouraged cheesing. Well, there was no cheesing happening, so nothing good was done.
>Button mashing while an enemy swings at thin air is the easiest and simplest tactic. It's good they countered it on several enemies.
No, the easiest tactic is using spells while walking backwards. Shame the enemies don't start a swing then teleport ten feet forwards, huh?
>Any game that gets more than 12 months of post-release attention can't be called a rushjob,
It shouldn't be getting any patches. The more and longer the patches are needed, the more obvious of a rushjob it was. Christ, you sound like a SW:ToR defender.
>>321696401
You can ring the bell to signal the ship with an arrow, skipping a good portion of the area which I think is a neat touch. Shulva and No Man's Wharf are probably my favorite areas in the game.
>doing this before nerf
felt good senpai
>>321698341
Who said it was me playing? I just posted it.Mouthbreather
>>321698310
It lacks the awesome double bandoleers and instead has a stupid short cape
>>321698368
Yes, and I also hate the gotta go fast, less punishing gameplay.
>>321698067
DeS: 7/10
DaS: 8/10
DaS2: 5/10
BB: 10/10
>>321698582
Because it's perfectly fair and something you can work around. Not only that but it demands more involvement and skill from the player rather than just asking them to repeat the same old tactics once more.
>>321698602
here's your red exclamation point
>>321698602
No. Go fucking play it, faggot.
>>321698076
>I dont like lovecraftian monsters or victorian gothic style
>therefor the game is shit even though I have not played it
>>321695670
>Undead burg is mostly a bunch of enemies thrown at you at the same time.
This is objectively false.
>Same for the Parish. Hell, the area immediately before the gargoyles is literally a group of like, 8 enemies bumrushing you while an asshole buffs them and casts spells.
Okay, this was pretty bullshit.
>Also remember fighting crystal golems with the hydra in the background?
Ditto, but you had trees to use as cover.
>Or the forest area where you take 2 wrong steps while fighting one of the guardians and have to fight ANOTHER?
There were like 3 or 4 and they were pretty easy to keep away from each other unless you got TWOPed.
>Or how about running through Blighttown with toxic darts constantly pelting your asshole while you try to fight enemies?
They weren't "constantly" hitting you and the Spider Shield makes them a complete joke.
>Or maybe Sen's Fortress where you run into multiple lizard assholes?
You could kill them with traps and the hallways were pretty narrow so it's not like they could gang up on you.
>Oh god, I forgot to mention fighting groups of enemies in the Depths
The slimes were slows as fuck as the rats and hollows sucked. The basilisks were aids though.
>Also having to deal long-range royal gargoyles shitting lightning at you in Anor Londo
Yeah, fuck them too.
Still not as bad as DaS2 though.
>>321698629
>Well, there was no cheesing happening,
But the tactic I just described is a cheese tactic.
>No, the easiest tactic is using spells while walking backwards
That's got literally nothing to do with the discussion at hand.
>It shouldn't be getting any patches.
Oh I see. You're just about as dumb as I thought you might be.
>>321698668
It goes like this
Souls games: 8/10
Your favourite game: 1/10
>>321698660
>less punishing
What the fuck?
Fucking up a dodge alone is likely to nuke your health
>>321698668
I agree with this. BB isn't flawless, but it's 10/10 according to how much I liked it.
>>321698503
>Y-you just never p-played it!
Every time
>>321698076
I don't understand how someone can have such a shit taste in atmosphere.
so comfy
>>321698690
It's not fair because it's not telegraphed in any way. The only way you learn this is by getting hit, possibly dying and losing progress.
>>321698468
>Puffy sleeves like Sheev
>Ugly ass dress
Its terrible m8
>>321698660
>He didn't play the DLC and Chalice dungeons
>>321698948
I like how even though I just proved that everything you said is blatantly false you are still pretending you played it. Post your copy with a timestamp.
>>321698963
Neither do I, I'm sure the bloodborne fags are the ones who think Van Helsing and Dracula: Untold are great movies.
>>321699007
>It's not fair because it's not telegraphed in any way
Again, we're back to you getting your ego bruised because at attack worked on you.
>>321698041
In that example, it doesn't really look like they're braindeadly flailing. The animation itself is suitable, and it makes the giant fucking swords they're swinging about look and feel like giant, heavy fucking swords. The part where it does a swipe into another swipe looks more like an issue you have with the AI rather than the quality of the animation, and even then, it only does the second swipe at all because it was primed to do it. It would be inconsistent to the game to just have an enemy AI just completely cancel an animation, which is supposed to be portraying the act of swinging a heavy slab of fucking metal.
>>321697389
Nigga, half the game is locked away.
>Nightmare Frontier needs a certain item and to be taken by a big spooky monster that's invisible to the naked eye (they did the same shit with the DLC, the DLC is a secret area)
>Cainhurst Castle requires you to go and wait to an ambiguous location holding an item that's already in a secret out of the way area.
>Upper Cathedral Ward is behind a door in a optional area that requires a key that's very well hidden in a place where you'd rather be running away from enemies instead of exploring.
>An area requires you to get killed by a certain mob
>>321698847
>But the tactic I just described is a cheese tactic.
What, the backstabbing that can't be done because the enemy is already immune to backstabs, or the weapon swinging that's already part of normal gameplay?
>That's got literally nothing to do with the discussion at hand.
You said that backstabbing was the easiest and simplest tactic, which is also why it deserved to have a bad game mechanic "balance" it. Well, walking backwards out of range while shooting infinite range magic missiles is even easier, so it's completely relevant. And it still hasn't been "countered", as you lovingly put it.
>Oh I see. You're just about as dumb as I thought you might be.
You'd honestly rather have a game constantly get patches over a game never needing patches. You are this dumb.
>>321697125
This. My Bloodborne playthrough feels magical compared to Dark Souls II. The level design blows me away with how intricately woven each area is, and even though there are mob encounters and a boss that's 3 guys, neither of them felt unfair.
>>321698660
Everything in BB does way more damage than in DaS, and the regular enemies WILL gank you and combo you to death if you fuck up. Even if you think its easier, it is far more punishing.
>>321698963
Some people don't want to jump on the whole Lovecraftian bandwagon, I guess. What a bunch of faggots they are
>>321699129
that's what I love about Bloodborne though. Made me feel like a kid again finding dank ass secrets like that.
>>321699107
You're being ridiculous. I couldn't care less about getting hit, I'm pointing out that having an enemy stand completely still and instantly pivot toward the player at the exact moment the attack wind up ends is cheap and should have been resolved in a much better way.
>>321698571
>Soothing Hymn
>PvE
>DeS: 5/10
>DaS: 7/10
>AoTA: 8/10
>DaS2: 6/10
>SotFS: 6.3/10
>BB: 10/10
>OH: 10/10
>PvP
>DeS: 3/10
>DaS: ERROR/10
>DaS2: 6/10
>BB: 2/10
>>321699001
>comfy
The only comfy thing in this was Thomas's soothing words (until he died)
>>321698841
>This is objectively false.
Oh really? Played the game recently?
Let me guide you through from firelink to Taurus
Go up the stairs in firelink, a guy charges you 1 more guy jumps down from above 1 more guy sitting above throwing firebombs, if you deal with them and go for the guy throwing bombs, a hollow next to the stairs will agor and do a jumping attack on you and the hollow on the stairs will come down.
You then fight a single rat in a small tunnel where your attacks can just go over it or bounce off of walls depending on what weapon you are using.
Unead burgh itself, the message pops up 2 hollows, go forward, 1 hollow if you try to attack him another one comes from the side
Keep going, drake who cares, go up. 1 hollow agros you runs at you, 1 snipes at you from the distance with a crossbow and one breaks some cover it was hiding behind to get you
Get past them go over the small bridge, 3 enemies in a room, if you try to back out you get peppered with firebombs.
Go past them a group of 3 hollow 2 will charge you 1 will sit back throwing bombs
Go up the tower clear the archer, second 1v1 in the game so far, the other one was a rat
Go down the stairs, 2 hollows with shields and swords, 1 with a spear.
Up the stairs it's a trap, once you triggered it once that guy will now join the 3 before if you take too long in clearing them
You are now at taurus, who is a boss with 2 enemies sniping at you from a ledge.
You are literally factually wrong.
>>321699335
That music was legit scary
>>321699280
Lovecraft is hardly a fucking bandwagon, tons of retards talk about Cthulhu but they dont know anything else about Lovecraft and they've never read it.
>implying all bloodborne fans are just bandwagoners
When BB came out and I realized the Lovecraftian twist, it became my favorite because I have been a lovecraft fan for even longer than I have been a souls fan.
Just got that ring in chalice
>>321699129
Also like 80% of the bosses are optional and lead to dead ends, without a guide you will have NO idea what you're doing or where you should be going, everything is a secret
>>321697389
the only legitimate issue here is the R1 spam, but that applies to every souls game.
actual problems:
>vial (grass) system sucks compared to estus
>chalice dungeons were done wrong
>bell maiden system for PVP sucks
>framerate sucks
>not that much content before the DLC, but DLC fixed that
>>321699126
If you want to nitpick then look at the head grab the enemies do.
Regardless you have no leg to stand on
DS2 enemies look dumb because the pivot all over the place
DS1 enemies look dumb because they make no attempt to counter sidestepping of any kind after they are locked into an attack animation
1's issue is far larger and more immersion breaking than 2's
>>321699408
>des 5/10
>>321699432
That was the first time in a long time when I was unnerved by the game's BGM. I think ever since the PS1/N64 era.
>>321699503
Go propose and then when she rejects you send the wheels upon her.
>>321699317
>I couldn't care less about getting hit
Yet here you are, whining about an attack hitting you.
> I'm pointing out that having an enemy stand completely still and instantly pivot toward the player at the exact moment the attack wind up ends is cheap
So fucking what? Deal with it and rise to the challenge.
>should have been resolved in a much better way.
Go chew some glass you worthless fucking armchair game dev. Suggest a solution or fuck off.
>>321699506
Maybe if you're retarded. I played the game day 1 blind and got through fine, it's incredibly simple. I found nightmare frontier and upper cathedral/ebby by myself, but didnt find cainhurst until playthrough 2
>>321699430
You forgot the black knight who's just waiting for you to go down those stairs and rape your face.
>>321699171
>You said that backstabbing was the easiest and simplest tactic
No. You're ignoring half my statement because it suits you.
>the weapon swinging that's already part of normal gameplay
The game isn't designed with you button mashing against immobile/helpless targets as they bully the air in front of them in mind.
>>321699686
So we're at "if you can't do it yourself you've no right to complain" now?
>>321699809
I intentionally ignored every non mandatory encounter in that area, not that it would have done that anon any real favors, the place is literally designed around multiple weaker enemies, where the fuck is the challenge in fighting a hollow soldier that's less mobile than you, deals less damage, has less health and has slower attack animations otherwise?
But no can't admit that, let's just lie about it instead
>You can never get the Falconer saber
Sigh
>>321699820
>No. You're ignoring half my statement because it suits you.
Then please bring it up, because I've already responded to it.
>The game isn't designed with you button mashing against immobile/helpless targets as they bully the air in front of them in mind.
Actually, yes it is. It's why the enemies that do the noscoping also have humongous health. But the noscoping is so obviously unplanned and rushed that people have forsaken the B Team because of it.
>>321699593
DeS PvE is awful. It's unengaging and ANNOYING. 5/10 is generous.
But go ahead, tell me how much you like fighting through any of the worlds but Boletaria.
Tell me your deep love for Stonefang Tunnels outside of Flamelurker.
Tell me how much you like running and running and running through Latria.
Tell me how you don't wear the Thief's Ring, even if only for crystal lizard suicides or Shrine of Storms.
Tell me how much you like mosquitos and fire stickmen and Valley of Defilement's piss easy slogfest.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqbWUzXmclo
>>321700005
>ywn have the Pursuer set
Just end me now.
>>321699579
>1's issue is far larger and more immersion breaking than 2's
let me get this straight
>an enemy hurling a heavy weapon being unable to change their position mid swing in order to be cheap and le git gud as possible is immersion breaking
>but record player enemies that literally rotate as if they're gliding, even if they're wearing literal tons of armor, and even if they move like they aren't even holding anything because it was motion captured or rotoscoped from someone with no weapon experience miming the sequence is ok
>>321699823
>So we're at "if you can't do it yourself you've no right to complain" now?
No, I'm saying it's fucking pointless to whine and just say that something "could have been better" if you don't have any concrete suggestions. Maybe it actually CAN'T be better for reasons you haven't considered. Maybe the current setup is the best possible solution when all factors are considered. We won't know unless he can suggest something that's actually better.
Here's an example of highlighting a shortcoming while actually proving that there's better ways to approach it.
>Invading was handled badly and it could have bee better if they let you trade Tokens of Resentment for Cracked Eye Orbs.
>>321700035
Mustard butthurt is delicious.
>>321700128
>an enemy hurling a heavy weapon being unable to change their position mid swing in order to be cheap and le git gud as possible is immersion breaking
If it was actually only enemies with heavy weapons you would have a leg to stand on, its not, every enemy does it no matter how light their weapons.
Any weight the animations added is instantly removed by the ragdoll physics anyway so I don't really see why you keep bringing it up.
Enemies in DS1 act like actual robots and make no attempt to correct any moves based on how the player reacts to them it looks stupid and thats the end of that.
>>321700073
How to make a good boss fight. Dark Souls 2 should have learned.
>>321699483
Came for the werewolves, stayed for the nightmares. What a trip.
>>321700375
God you're such a fucking downs syndrome retard
>>321700580
>namecalling
Well done.
>>321700410
dark souls 2 tried that with every boss. LOOK IT'S A KNIGHT TRYING TO DEFEND SOMETHING HE CURR ABOUT!!! LOOK DOESN'T IT TOUCH YOUR FEELS!?.....please like me...
