Will 2016 finally be the year we move on from this shitty combat system?
sometimes I feel like people missed the point of the combat system from the arkham games.
>look guiz I am playing on the easiest difficulty with the weakest enemy in the game
Yeah fuck off now
It's called not playing shitty AAA western games
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AV9W2ZdmjU
Every time
>>321612954
You can "move on" right now if you press more than the counter button
we geralt now
>>321613057
How is that make it acceptable? You should still have to think about the buttons you are pushing. Stop defending this shitty game
>>321612954
Yes.
It will now be the Square/X button.
>>321613171
Do you really beat up juggalos in that game?
You'll spend eternity mashing. Counters can't take down enemies.
>mordor sequel probably already well into development
>pebble shaky likely already working on the next repaint with another comic universe
>wb montreal likely already well into development of even more bamham
the ride hasn't even started yet
>>321613193
>How is that make it acceptable?
is english not your first language?
>>321613048
And what's the point?
>>321613245
Exactly this, and the first time you face someone with a knife, you're dead. The Arkham games had this type of combat because you're supposed to feel like Batman as you play, cutting through street thugs like the billionaire ninja master that you were.
>>321613193
There is more to games than combat
Back to Meme Souls now
This system only works in the context of batman since you're suppose to be the batman and you gotta be cool dude kicking butt.
any other context and its retarded.
Except he's literally not doing any damage with that.
>>321613193
You're playing as motherfucking Batman. He should be able to kick ass effortlessly.
I don't even like Batman, but this game is really good.
>>321613171
His sword struck blunt objects several times.
It should be stuck or at a minimum weakened.
When will programmers learn?
>>321613320
>mordor sequel probably already well into development
Can confirm. Aragorn lauds Talion as the hope of Middle Earth.
>>321613357
to feel like batman, duh.
the dev realized they can't have a guy like batman sweating against some common thug so they made perfection the goal instead of just winning. getting through an encounter by the skin of your teeth isn't very batman like. getting through an encounter without getting a scratch and using all your special moves and gadgets, now that's batman like.
>>321613379
>>321613391
>>321613552
>You're supposed to BE the batman
I mean yeah I get it, that doesn't mean I like it.
>>321613379
That's why he chose that specific spot outside the tower. It's the one place in the game where Shield, Gun and Knife enemies will never spawn regardless of your progress (The game, for some reason, has a set spawn type for that group)
>>321613715
Its like these faggots have never seen the score counter. If you just mash a single button you'll get a bad score, but if you're blasting people with explosive gel while disarming everyone on Earth, then you're going to be a top ranking Batman.
>>321612954
Wow that guy is awful at the Batman Arkham games, it looks like he's doing absolutely zero damage.
Git gud, they're really not hard games.
>>321613715
>IT'S BAD ON PURPOSE!
It never fails to amaze mre the amount of corporate apologists that come out of the woodwork whenever that webm is posted.
>>321614035
it's not bad tho
>>321614035
>>321613725
so don't play it
I wanna see somebody try that shit in the challenges.
Batman combat is overused, yes. But it doesn't make it bad when its done right.
>>321612954
Lets get this over with
>weakest enemies in the game
>will never even defeat a single one of them
>combo meter never gets above x2
>tactic will not work the minute there's any other kind of enemy present
The point of the combat is that you're the fucking Batman and you should be using all your tricks to get sick fucking combos which actually increases your damage done and gives you more xp. This'd be like calling Devil May Cry shit based on a short gif of someone killing basic puppets with nothing but guns from the other side of the room. Sure you could play like a shitter, but if you play properly it is fun.
shields, stun rods, brutes, blades, guns
inaccurate webm is inaccurate
>100% bamham city
>save bug
>luckily I have a back up
>99%
>implying I'm going to do that last combat challenge again
>>321612954
It's funny the retards keep posting this video but it exactly defeat the argument of the post.
So why is Batman "good" and AC is "shit" when they're basically the same game?
Is it literally a credibility thing? Are the button mash defense force game agnostic?
>>321613929
This. I still have problems with Arkham Asylum cause the combat isn't smooth. Arkham City has better combat but shittier everything, it's sad. Haven't played Arkham Knight yet.
High scores are the goal, it's not a speed run.
>>321612954
wait til the knife and electic prod guys come so you have to press 2 buttons
>>321613593
but W3 does keep track of damage and lower the stats accordingly until you repair it yoyrself or take it to a smith senpai
>>321614448
Who said AC combat is good?
this thread is making me want to play bamham again. is the arkham knight pc port still shit?
>>321614625
nothing wrong with going with any of the first three games. the newest one brings nothing to the table except regret.
>>321614492
I just started playing Arkham Knight, but the biggest change so far is you're essentially a fully equipped Batman at the very start of the game. You have access to almost all the tools right off the bat and they just throw you into the fray of dozens of thugs. They seem to have completely dumped the whole predator thing aside though, which sucks in my opinion. You can still do silent takedowns, but they're way harder to do since there's always a 100+ people looking in every direction at all times.
>>321614578
Nobody, they said it was the same.
>>321614448
Played AC1 around 2008, thought it was shit. Played the pirate one but still thought the combat was mostly shit. Played 3 when my brother got it but stopped cause the combat was shit. I also hated the main missions for the pirate one, the pirate things were what I played it for cause the combat and storyline didn't do it for me. The Arkham games at least pack in a good game (not counting combat) for you to enjoy.
>>321614448
Neither Batman nor Assassin's Creed is button smashing, you need to do different action to counter different enemies or attacks.
The only button smashing game I can think of is Bloodborne, you literally only has to press L1 for every enemy.
>>321614625
You're better off with the other games. The tank parts are ass and too frequent.
>>321614625
>is the arkham knight pc port still shit?
doesn't matter if it ran flawlessly from the get go, all the tank shit instantly sucks the fun out the game.
>>321614721
>>321614926
but I already played the previous games to death
>>321614089
>Get shown to be a complete retard, misrepresenting shit just to fit in with the hivemind.
>CORPORATE APOLOGISTS!
>>321612954
Whoever made this webm must be a complete retard.
>>321615014
keep that refund on speeddial senpai
>>321613230
Yes. There is a gang that looks like that.
>There will never be another Star Wars game with combat as satisfying as Jedi Academy
>>321612954
2016. A new CoD, Halo, and Batman. Complete rehash of this years.
>>321615448
>Exclusive EA Liscense
first the NFL and now this shit
>>321615689
>You will never be a greedy Corporate CEO, getting payed to ruin beloved franchises and shit out lazy cash-grabs, all while spending your free time surfing and doing Jiu-Jitsu
Feels pretty bad m8
>>321615318
arkham knight mod?post more screencap
boy do I hope so, shit gets boring after maybe 20 minutes of playing it
fuck the bamham games and fuck batman in general
worse super hero worst games
>>321616753
nope that's the "batman beyond" suit, basically a red reskin of the AK
>>321616889
oh that sucks no ak costume and no bb costume
Obligatory
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AV9W2ZdmjU
batman games have interesting combat.
I don't think it holds a candle in terms of execution, freedom, and complexity to games like dmc3/4/godhand. but it's interesting. freeform, very heavy tracking, can get fairly complex if you really want to incorporate some of the more useless gadgets. I think more devs should understand the difference between having a wealth of options, and having a more pronounced, nuanced, usage for said wealth of options. there are two different design schools for action games, really. i don't think either is objectively superior.
>>321612954
it all started with assassins creed. Fuck that series and fuck all its fans. Anyone who enjoyed any of the series except the first two games should get gassed.
>>321614448
Warner bros invested more on viral marketers than ubisoft, who are still spamming the board
Only reason
Both games are atrociously shit
>>321613379
I thought the game was extreme shit until I encountered more enemies
Had better stealth than MGS
>>321617193
>Anyone who enjoyed any of the series except the first two games should get gassed.
I stuck around until 3 so I could see the conclusion of Desmond's arc.
Fight me.
>>321617032
See >>321613127
>>321617032
based destiny
Not until we get controllers with more buttons.
>Press X to punch the wall
>Hold X to jump over the wall
>Press X when prompted to interact
>Press X to reload
>Press X while running towards obstacle to jump over
>>321614795
>You have access to almost all the tools right off the bat
:3
>>321614035
>game gives you dozens of neat tools to take out enemies
>use only basic attacks either because you suck or just lazy
>somehow this is the games fault
as retarded as the people who claim DX was a stealth game.
>>321613193
From what I remember, if you spam counters you don't really ever finish the enemies off, and they do throw different types at you, some with attacks that you can't counter and with weapons or equipment that require you to do something beyond punching them.
I'm not saying the games have deep combat, but it's not as braindead as OP wants to make it look, and if you choose to hamper your own enjoyment by playing like that then it is partially your own fault.
its shtty, and im not going to defend it, but at least it has some enemy variety, gliding around the city is fun, predotor mode, puzzles, car chasing and an (abused) tank mode.
theres shit here and there, but still the gameplay is at least diverse enough. the main issue is warner jews using the same combat in SoM and mad max, and i hope other devs dont copy it.
>>321618409
Youre over exaggerating a bit there anon.
>>321612954
>witcher 3 got goty this year
probably not
>>321614625
I recently burned through it. It was smooth maxed out except when I would jump in the batmobile, it would pause for about 15 seconds and then the animation would finish. This was with a 970, i7 2600, and 16 gbs of 1333 mhz ddr3 ram.
>>321617353
Did you like it?
I think Arkham two buttons combat has a lot of potential, just need some fixes. I have been thinking in some.
>>321613193
>How is that make it acceptable? You should still have to think about the buttons you are pushing. Stop defending this shitty game
Try buttonmashing vs enemies with prods, shields, brutes, etc.
Then try and counter enemies with grabs, unblockable attacks, sharp weapons, etc.
>>321614448
I played the beginning of Black Flag and instant killed every enemy with a single counter effortlessly.
Batman combat is easy, but at least you have to fight a little bit.
>>321613929
>>321614492
I agree with you guys but you can't really blame people. A well designed combat system would guide/force people to use variety instead of just relying on a score counter. The Batman games do this to an extent by introducing all sorts of different enemies BUT it would be much more interesting if this happened way more often. The reason it doesn't is because they need the game to be a bit dumbed down so people who don't get into the system completely can still beat it. But you could totally have a game with Batman combat where doing what the OP webm is doing is impossible because every group has an enemy that reacts differently to that or something. In this sense Batman combat can be said to be worse than it could.
>>321620728
You can't do that in Witcher 3 though, or at least nowhere near as reliably.
>>321622668
>Countering a brute
>Countering an officer
>instant killed every enemy with a single counter effortlessly
You have not play far enough, anon. Not to simply Asscreed has a good combat system but it wasn't THAT atrocious. It would be better if they have a variety ways of combating different enemy types.
>>321613127
>>321617032
Is the combat in Mordor this bad or is this cherry picking?
>>321615689
i wonder if that guy tries to look like satan on purpose
>>321613193
Because JRPGs have had trashmobs that allow you to just spam attack for 80% of the game for decades.
>>321614035
>THE GAME'S FUN ON PURPOSE!
Don't you ever get tired of being a twig that enemies can snap in one hit? Sometimes it's fun to play a game where you have the means to be overpowered.
>>321619550
yes it's the game's fault because it's not my job to come up with creative ways to challenge myself, it's the game's. If you can effortlessly deal with anything the game throws at you with basic attacks, then why would you bother?
>>321614035
Not what he even remotely said. You have no retort, because he is right. Why not just agree or leave or prove him wrong?
We know that you can't prove him wrong. So that gives you only a couple options to choose from, but it doesn't matter at the end of the day, you'll still be a stupid faggot.
>>321625253
...because it's a fucking game?
I find it extremely ironic when people complain about the "overly simplistic" combat in games like the Arkham series or God of War. If people can't be assed to use the tools the game gives them and mix it up, I SERIOUSLY fucking doubt they are the kind of people who pull off great combos in Devil May Cry and the like.
Besides this:
>If you can effortlessly deal with anything the game throws at you with basic attacks
is literally wrong so your whole point is moot anyway.
>>321615148
What exactly is misrepresented there, you fucking retard? That you can mash a single button and remain completely invincible?
Is this supposed to be acceptable, so you can feel like muh batman? And you are not a corporate apologist?
What exactly is your point?
>>321612954
Counters don't do any damage, you could sit there doing that for days and nothing would happen, they also prevent you from building up a combo if you time them wrong. Stop pushing this tired meme
>>321625891
Not that guy but you are fucking retarded, that situation is obviously cherry-picked, I went through Arkham Origins recently and the game throws different enemy types fairly early into the game, and you can't just mash counter in those situations.
>>321613715
>to feel like batman
So where's the prep time?
I can just walk and fuck anyone's shit with a press of two buttons.
There's no skill involved and how can you feel like Batman when all you do is brainless button mashing?
>>321623153
Crit builds devolve W3 to an even worse button masher.
>>321625667
>is literally wrong so your whole point is moot anyway.
It's literally not wrong though.
Nice rant there but my point still stands. In other games you can't win every time by soamming basic attacks. If I have to come up with ways to be not fucking bored out of my mind in combat is shitty game design, that only retards defend.
>>321613929
>>321614492
People who play for score just think of the number. Like that's all that matters, just increasing the number. You're playing with a different set of rules, that's what playing for score is. You're playing a game of tee-ball, I'm playin Home Run Derby.
I mean you play however you want if you think that's fun, ruining the game. Just go ahead and ruin it. You can pretend you like it if you want. I won't stop you from pretendin.
Just keep on playin tee-ball.
>>321613715
>I've never read the comic books but was there really an issue where Batman became a fucking ballerina?
>>321626213
kek OK friend.
Your point is right because you say it's right.
Good talk.
>>321626186
Against humanoids
Which is maybe 10% of combat
Is Arkham Origins really that bad?
SHits like 15 bucks on Wii U
>>321612954
Play on hard next time
>knife enemies
>stun stick enemies
>gun enemies
>shield enemies
>big enemies
>martial artist enemies
You need different moves to counter all these guys.
Nice cherry picking faggot. There's plenty of reasons to not like these games so why do you feel the need to make up additional ones?
>>321626893
All of those can be taken down with a single counter button. I swear Bamham faggots love to make shit up to defend their casual combat system and act like it has more depth than it really does
>>321627135
no they can't, you can't even counter shield, stunstick or gun enemies, big enemies have some coutnerable attacks and some uncounterable attacks, knife enemies need you to counter and move at the same time and martial artist enemies need you to time multiple successive counters.
Why are you bitching about the game if you've obviously never played it?
>>321622669
>A well designed combat system would guide/force people to use variety instead of just relying on a score counter
I don't disagree with your message but I feel you may have over-idealized the process of designing a combat system. Or perhaps it would be better to say I think you underestimate the inclination for humans to find a method that works and stick with it.
Think of any combat game and you'll usually be able to find an example
LoL
>player roles almost inextricably linked with champion selected despite riots multiple attempts to change that
Ninja Gaiden and probably the Souls game
>find a decent safe combo and stick with it. change tactics slightly to meet the needs of special circumstances
Bayonetta May Cry
>push whatever button you want as long as you don't forget to dodge
Street Fighter (based on the EVO 2015 finals I watched)
>campy bullshit until your opponent makes a mistake you can punish punish.
Dishonored
>freeze time blink stab blink stab blink stab freeze time stab.
I leave dishonored for last because it bears the most similarities to Arkham in this conversation. it has a fair number of different powers and gadgets but at the end of the day most of what you need is bundled up in two abilities, your default weapon, and a passive. less so if you're good.
If a player doesn't want to play with his toys I'm content with the devs giving him/her a quick route to the finish line while they let those who love the game savor it's complexity.
>>321626391
I know you are quoting the video, but yeah, Batman, as most superheroes, is very acrobatic.
>>321626213
>In other games you can't win every time by soamming basic attacks.
Yeah, like in Arkham City, Arkham Origins and Arkham Knight. Try to win just pushing one button in said games. That only works in Arkham Asylum, where most of the time there is only one type of enemy.
>>321627585
>using dishonored as an example
>getting into combat in dishonored
You're playing it wrong, you know.
>>321627585
>(based on the EVO 2015 finals I watched)
One match in a game with 44 characters. Maybe you should watch Capcom Cup Finals since that's the tournament with the largest prize pool and EVO is just seeding points for that event.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQmaH_W7UMo
>>321627585
>If a player doesn't want to play with his toys I'm content with the devs giving him/her a quick route to the finish line while they let those who love the game savor it's complexity.
If this is the case then you should be ready for people to make WebMs like in the OP because you didn't do a good enough job of showing them how their game's combat is actually interesting. This is why I said you can't really blame people.
And to use your own argument against you:
>Or perhaps it would be better to say I think you underestimate the inclination for humans to find a method that works and stick with it.
Batman's failures in combat design in working around this issue is what makes people create webms like in the OP. You said it yourself, people will find the minimum that works for them and they'll judge the game by that, which is what people who complain about Batman's combat system do. If you don't want people to complain about this, you, as a designer, should do something about it.
>>321618409
>mouse+keyboard
so... 1980?
>people defending the batman combat
>>321628438
Why not?. It does the work: make you feel stronger than your enemies.
Don't blame Rocksteady if other devs copy and past it for their games.
>>321613193
Have you heard of difficulty curve?
Start with easy enemies that allows player to get used to the systems of the game, slowly at their own pace with limited risk and then bit by bit start demanding more of them.
>>321627713
I know the DCT dlc isn't the game's strongest asset but one of said trails is nothing but combat. also, rage playthroughs are completely legit
>>321627894
I mentioned my source as a means to acknowledge its lack of substance. I just don't care enough about the game to watch the pros but it seemed relevant to the conversation. can you provide evidence to support or discredit my use of it as an example?
>>321627982
you're so right that you can't blame people. I agree with that entirely. however I disagreed with how you qualified it in your following sentence. perhaps you've mistaken my argument as a defense for the Batsassin of Mordor. Though I've enjoyed what I have played, I'm not prepared to say their combat was well-designed. I am prepared to assert that a combat system does not have to force a person to try every trick it has and often to be considered well-designed.
>>321629002
>I am prepared to assert that a combat system does not have to force a person to try every trick it has and often to be considered well-designed.
I disagree with this. If the combat system has Y things in it but you only need to use X to actually beat the game then it's not a complete experience. Either you design the game to properly make use of the Y things you put in your combat system or you've failed.
>>321629002
>can you provide evidence to support or discredit my use of it as an example?
I just did. SF is all about matchups and some matches are slow and some are fast. SF is one of the least homogenized fighting games.
>>321629002
>can you provide evidence to support or discredit my use of it as an example?
The video he linked is the exact opposite of the way you described Ultra.
>>321629597
>>321629640
I'll be honest, I didn't watch because like I mentioned I just can't make myself care about SF, as good as it may be. I was hoping you/he would talk about how I was wrong not just that I was wrong.
And honestly the link isn't the best evidence here, simply because in this conversation I have mentioned that there is a WEALTH of variety available. almost EVERY game I mentioned is better both to play and watch at a high skill level. I guess I should take the blame for the confusion though as my mentioning of EVO colored my use of SF with a... let's say "professional" tone.
>>321614812
Lol in Black Flag I upgraded my pistols as fast as possible and just filled everyone with lead, on boat battles I always went up the mast and sniped from the crows nest with a musket before plunging into battle
Black Flag is far superior to all other AC games as far as gameplay, I dont give a shit about their storyline bullshit with the Atari Dreamtheater or w/e its fucking called
>>321630776
>almost EVERY game I mentioned is better both to play and watch at a high skill level.
and what games? LoL and a bunch of single player games?
>>321628660
Assassin's Creed was released before Arkham Asylum.
The batman games are designed for casuals like most AAA games what did you expect?
>>321630776
What's there to talk about? You admitting that you don't understand the game and jumping to conclusions about how every match is?
What makes that video not good evidence? It's a match that's played in a complete opposite pacing to the one you just called out the whole game for.
Going in-depth about why you're wrong would take way more than a simple explanation, but like the other guy said: you're basing an entire game on one match you saw with two specific players and 3 characters, out of a bevy of top players and 44 characters. Even people who play the same character can have vastly different styles.
>almost EVERY game I mentioned is better both to play and watch at a high skill level
You're mistaking your own personal preference as objective fact. I don't like watching or playing MOBAs, but I'm not gonna sit here and say they're bad at a high level just 'cause I don't like them.
>>321613127
It's a cash grab game with a name of a famous movie. Of couse is gonna be shallow.
It's like getting mad at an romantic comedy because the story is not complex as a Jodorowsky movie.
>>321614141
SCARECROW!
the only game i hate this kind of combat in is shadow of mordor. it brings nothing new to the table except a giant obnoxious triangle over every enemys head when they attack you. shits still kinda fun though. its a shame i never see anyone talk about it despite being LotR. i mean starwars games get love but nobody gives a fuck about muh orks.
>>321633958
SoM is short and not very memorable, and rapes lore to boot. It appeals to no one. Not action fans, not LoTR fans and certainly not the hardcore type.
>>321612954
>wanting good combat
Get with the times I need enchanced story and cinematic experiences.
>>321634076
How does it rape the lore? explain.
>>321631871
how many games should I list!? I mentioned 5 games (7 technically) and two were fighters. or is SF single player now.
>>321632947
i feel I may have poorly represented my intentions. I used SF as an example of a well-made game that has exploits usable at non-high tier play. From what I know of the game that seems fair:
>hadoken spam
>cammy torpedo kick
>Tiger anything
>zangieff
also, I hate the souls games. but I can appreciator them for what they are.
>>321634362
For one thing in the books Celebrimbor died thousands of years before Sauron went back to mordor.
Good luck getting all these stars by button mashing, faggot
lol people WANT shitty combat mechanics so they dont need to activate the last half of a brain cell theyve got left
people like you are the reason videogames stagnate beyond comprehension and will be a dead medium for braindead people
i hope normies leave
Are you foolish?
Why would they put effort into doing something new when the same shit sells like hot cakes?
>>321635805
the funny part is
they dont even need to do something new
we already have combat systems from arcade game generation or more recent ones (ps2)
people just dont really know what is good and after showing evidence they fall back on full damage control because self preservation muh need to feel good about myself and my descisions you bamham asscr4eed mordor fags are so fucking pathetic i hope your breed degenerates and dies fucking off
Heavenly Sword was far from perfect but it has one of my favourite combat systems. It didn't hold your hand.
The point is to string together a sick 50x combo using all the gadgets that are available.
On top of that it's just a mainstream game, not meme souls. It's not supposed to be terribly difficult.
Arkham Punchems combat is pretty bad, but its not like other popular games have that much better combat (AC, Elder Scrolls, Fallout). Let's just start over
>>321636163
no offense but this looks like you need 5 minutes to master
low skill ceiling = bad combat
every attack is aoe, every attack is definitive stagger the only enemy who somehow stood his ground did that blue attack but even then your stagger animation is like 1/5 of the enemies so what gives
>>321636208
no the point in a dark gritty world where everyone is out to kill you is survival
combat means survival, everytime everywhere
if you dont fight for survival you dont fight
>>321636215
thats why i say "normies need to leave"
>>321612954
No because if people can lose they won't buy the game
>>321613057
>easiest difficulty
>no blue dicks over the enemy head when he atacks
yeah about that
>>321617338
DELETE THIS POST NOW.
>>321636423
Nigger, you're fucking batman.
You're a 6'5 super swole billionaire playboy that's a master of every single martial art.
Capeshit is also for plebs, this is hardly some 'grimdark super edgy game full of death'.
So when does Batman Knight go on sale?
>>321627594
>the video
Not that guy. But what video?
>>321636916
look at the enemies and the world and tell me again how its not grimdark super edgy
the best martial artist will sooner or later get overhelmed, it doesnt matter how strong his opponents are 3-4 people are often more than enough to fuck your shit up
>>321613715
>To feel like batman
But easily defeating hordes of enemies with your bare fists is nothing like batman. If the game actually wanted you to feel like batman you'd have to prepare the area before hand. Put some traps down, maybe choose what gadgets you'd need before hand.
This is the video game equivalent of giving a baby keys and then saying they're the best ever.
