I'll start:
Soldier from Tf2
The only class I know of that rewards you for having poor aim with top scores
>>321597473
That would be demoman
>>321597604
Demoman is castrated and reduced to needing direct hits to be useful at all. Aside from demoknights which are horse shit.
Pub shitter detected
>>321597473
I agree, OP. Soldier is just shoot feet ->Get kills. Utterly braindead
Scout needs a buff. +25 health or more pistol damage. It's impossible to compete against soldiers or demomen.
>>321597841
Soldier main detected
>>321597848
Scout are hard counters for demoman and can beat soldiers most of the time. Wtf are you talking about?
>>321598289
>Can beat soldiers most of the time
The entire class is based on aiming at the floor and splash damage. Scouts of fuccboi's when it comes to soldiers.
>>321598289
>Can beat soldier's most of the time
You mean if the soldier has less than 50 health and can't rocket jump away?
>>321597848
>Scout needs a buff
>>321598105
Nice try but if you weren't a shitter, you would know that scouts shit on soldiers and demomen have way higher damage output. Most competitive scenes only allow one demoman per team.
>>321598631
>>321598631
I've only ever seen scouts get shit upon by soliders, and that's WONDERFUL until Anon realized that not everyone plays competitive
>>321598460
>>321598595
Keep at midrange and make use of your jumping to make it impossible for the soldier to predict where to shoot you. If you're having problems with a soldier as a scout then he's straight up better than you. It's not because the soldier is over powered. In seriously believe people want scout buffs when he's the best DM class.
>TF2 thread
>everyone is literally retarded when it comes to balance
>people still think Pyro got nerfed
>>321599047
>Keep at midrange
Yeah, I'm sure I'll scare him off with my 20 damage scattergun shots. He lands one rocket -> I'm dead
>>321599068
>mfw phlog right now
>>321599225
>What is the pistol.
>What are spies.
>What are snipers.
>What is moving.
>>321598937
Scouts have an even easier time in pubs since players don't communicate and you can find players by themselves and can easily flank anyone. If you're having problems with the soldier as a scout, that's your problem. Don't blame balance.
>>321599225
Rockets aren't hitscan. You're scattergun is. Make use of your double jump and the soldier will have an extremely difficult time trying to hit you.
>>321599068
>easily countered phlog is still easily countered
>airblasts on all flamethrowers are worse
Come on now
>shoot feet
lmao
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rXgIO_5Jks
>>321599047
>>321599636
Soldier is a soft-counter to scout, Scout literally cannot jump over a soldier's blast radius, even with both jumps directly vertical. To beat a soldier a scout needs either a height advantage or to surprise him. If both players have equal aim the soldier will outdamage a scout, or at the very least kill him first.
>>321597473
Soldier is fine, the only thing about him that needs nerfing is the Escape Plan [takes away his key downside of low speed when not rocket jumping] and the Disciplinary Action [same]
>>321597604
Demoman is almost perfectly balanced now in comparison to other classes following the radius nerf, only thing is stickies need to be bigger
>>321597848
Scout is currently OP but only by a tiny margin, see this guy >>321598289
The intended counter relationships in this game are:
Scout>Demoman>Engineer>Scout
Pyro>Spy>Sniper>Heavy>Pyro
Soldier=All
All>Medic when he's alone, Medic>All when he has teammates
Scout is currently minorly OP because he shits on Soldiers, who are meant to not counter or be countered by anything and be a generalist class
>>321599819
They don't have to jump over the blast. They can stay a healthy distance and and have good movement to dodge all the rockets. Scouts can catch soldiers off guard pretty easily aswell. Soldiers are forced to guess where to put their rockets against an unpredictable scout. Soldiers being a soft counter to scouts is an old viewpoint.
>>321600309
>>321600540
>Soldier counters nothing
Soldier counters spy and engie and is countered by Pyro(soft) and Heavy.
>>321600309
That pic is some pretty sound stuff. Sometimes I wonder if they even play the game they're patching. The Pyro changes in particular regarding the phlog and axtinguisher bewilder the shit out of me.
Anyway, I especially like the spy changes that pic proposes. Spy is in a really shitty place right now against competent players and a fake reload could do wonders to help fool some people.
>>321600309
ftfy
>>321600309
>literally no reason to use any melee but the escape plan
>hey you know what would be a great idea?
>let's make the escape plan even MORE viable
Thanks
>>321601538
Not that guy, but I think they went way too far when the split the equalizer. I mean, I'll admit that I love games with OP shit and I think you can make a fun game with stuff like that in it, and if I had my way the equalizer would have never been nerfed into two weapons, but anything to get closer to that dream.
TF2 DEAD GAME
LET IT GOOOOO
>>321601438
SoaS should only minicrit burning enemies if it has a guaranteed ignite three hits in.
>>321601438
Those enforcer changes are absolutely shit. We already have a slow and steady aiming revolver in the form of the ambassador, why the fuck would you use this when the same calm aiming tactic with headshots would yield much more results?
>>321600540
This is fairly accurate but also shows perfectly the problem with soldier which is that he is a SITUATIONAL hard counter to nearly every other class (but heavy and other soldiers) he is the jack of all trades in a game of extremely limited specialists. A barely competent soldier (capable of picking his battles) should reliably win a 1v1 with any other class, nearly regardless of the other players skill. The only major exception being a l337 sniper headshot-machine. To put it another way, a team of all soldiers should wipe a balanced team, or a team of any other single class.
Fuck soldier.
>>321601203
Pyro does not counter Soldier; let me explain.
On TF2's release Soldiers absolutely shat on Pyros. Pyros could do literally nothing about being juggled by Rockets other than throw out chip damage with shotty.
Then Valve gave Pyro airblast, because they realised how utterly shit Pyro was.
So now Pyros can reflect Soldier's Rockets, but Soldiers can swap to Shotgun. Hitscan bullets can't be reflected, so the Pyro then swaps to Shotgun as well. In this situation, Soldier has a 25HP advantage, and Pyro has a 20% movespeed advantage. It's even.
Demoman's Grenade Launcher fires faster than the Pyro can reflect, but we don't say that Demo counters Pyro. It's a skill matchup.
Spies and Soldiers go even. If Spies successfully ambush and overtake a slow-moving Soldier, he's dead. If a Soldier notices the Spy first, the Spy's dead.
Soldiers and Heavies go even, the Heavy wins at closer range and the Soldier wins at longer range, but at mid range they output roughly similar damage per second.
Engineers and Soldiers are meant to go even but with bullshit like Bazooka they currently don't. The way it's meant to work is that Soldiers can corner-heckle Sentries, and Engineers are meant to pop out of their nests with the Shotgun and kill them while they are distracted.
>>321601438
No, you didn't fix anything. Your image isn't even updated for Tough Break, they already fixed Pretty Boy's Pocket Pistol. Read the fucking patch notes.
>>321601538
How does changing the Escape Plan's negligible medic healing penalty while equipped to a -50% healing at all times penalty make it more viable, anon? If you can convince me of a better change I'll add it.
>>321601273
Thanks anon. Yeah, the Axtinguisher I think they were trying to force people to use it with the Degreaser, but even then it's still pointless because its damage is shithouse now [131 damage melee crits kek]. I'd rather use fucking Fire Axe and hope for a random crit.
>>321602379
>A team of all soldiers should wipe a balanced team
Other classes can do that as well, especially Engineer.
Heavy needs a buff in his damage ramp up, or a slight decrease in damage drop off.
I haven't played TF2 in years, but I remember the Pyro being insanely unbalanced due to the backburner which gave you almost guaranteed crits unless your opponent kept his front to you at all times
>>321598631
Demoman is limited to one per team because if you could run two it would be a fucking shitfest where nobody would ever push because there would literally be sticky traps everywhere.
>>321602379
He's almost balanced, because even though he is an unnecessarily always useful generalist, other situational classes can be picked to suit the terrain or enemy team layout and slightly outperform him [say for example a team of all Soldiers versus an all-Soldier team with a Medic]; but currently unlocks are standing in the way. The main weaknesses Soldier has are: his reload times, and his shitty movespeed [which, by extension, makes his melee shit even though it has average damage].
When he doesn't have enough Health to rocket jump, he has to limp along to health packs slowly or dodge slowly on the ground. When his primary needs time to reload, he has to fall back on his secondary, and if that isn't ready, he gets fucked because he's too slow to melee.
I reckon the main things standing in the way of those balancing weaknesses are Disciplinary Action and Escape Plan. Suddenly he doesn't have to move so slowly to health packs [DA's 3.6s 40% speed boost on hit ally, or EP's boosting you to nearly Scout speed when injured enough]. On top of that, Escape Plan actually lets you move fast enough to melee people in the face properly while reloading.
I think nerfing those would make his "jack of all trades" routine a bit more balanced within the class system.
>>321604359
What Heavy really really needs is a skill-based new heavy weapon, something like the Ambassador.
>>321604621
Nah, it's the shittiest Pyro weapon now. It only gives you 4 airblasts to fend off rockets, and the backburning range is tiny-- it will only burn people you are directly south of, with a 90 degree backburn angle compared to Spy's 180 degree backstab angles.
It's been 8 years, /v/. It's time to move on.
>>321603341
Heavy does not win at close range. 3 directs and you're fucking gone. It depends entirely on the heavy shooting first
What if Spy could backstab an Ubercharged Medic?
What would happen to 6s and HL? Is Spy a useful class now?
>>321605081
You'd get someone dedicated to watching the medic's ass, nothing else would change.
The only place it would suffer is pubs, but not that much since the general lack of coordination means not everyone's going to know the uber's coming to stop it
>>321605018
>directhit
cherrypick.
if a heavy sees a direct hit right there in front of him he can tickle crit him or fast glove run away.
and if the heavy gets the drop he can just mow him down.
so like he's saying. Soldier can beat everyone if the situations good. A big thing for learning to play soldier is learning to pick fights
>>321605018
If he's spun up he does, though, but yeah you're right if he's not spun up he's probably fucked.
I'm talking like 0-64HU range, where Heavy does something like 560dps and Soldier only does 400+ damage in a clip with firing intervals then needs to reload, and Heavy has a 100HP edge.
>>321597473
scores don't matter
capping the flag does
god, why can't you faggots play this game the way it was originally meant to be played back in 1996?
>>321598631
>scouts shit on soldiers
Nah, they just get to pick their engagements
A good soldier should be beating a scout
scouts to rek bad demos though
>>321605348
I said directs, not direct hit
stock deals 100 damage directs at close range, 3 hits, maybe 4 if you're not close enough for the 100 and the heavy's out unless he starts shooting first
>>321605081
Medics in 6s have extreme situational awareness, it's pretty much their whole job
>>321605483
heavy wins then. if all damage is done at max for both the heavy would probably win.
if they see each other at the same time and both can do their max damage I am fairly sure heavy wins.
What'd they do to balance Demo? Been a couple years since I played
>>321605986
Only if the heavy's already spinning, otherwise even half a second gives the soldier the win
>>321606181
check the updates you missed
>>321606401
sorry I live in a country that censors tf2 patch notes
>>321597739
demoknight was great for tearing apart teams that weren't working cohesively together
but even one decent heavy + medic combo would mean you shouldn't enter that part of the map. so there wasn't really a need for any nerfing
rip demonight. it was fun while it lasted
>>321606194
heavy should be going around corners revved. if not than he's a bad heavy.
not him but even if both classes could get max damage with no interference from anything, its a fucking pub and who cares.
like, a heavy isnt near the fight, and if hes in some random spot, he should be revving around corners.
so like everyone is saying. The soldier wins based on situations. if the heavy is turning a corner not revved thinking no enemy is there, then the soldier surprised him.
as in, a particular situation.
as in, a situational fight of which soldier excels at and is the only way at really being better than other classes.
git gud
>>321606181
They reduced the splash damage radius of stickies, it now ramps up after the stickies have fired, so that an air-det explodes in a smaller area but a ground-det explodes in a bigger area.
It made the Demo actually finally get properly countered by Scout like he was meant to be, because now he can't drop a single sticky that does as much damage as the Scout has Health in such a way that the Scout can't avoid the explosion.
>>321606808
how fucking bad are you at scout?
>>321597473
If Soldier got nerfed I'd probably never play TF2. It's the only game that still does RL right.
>>321607090
I'm pretty good at Demo and pre-nerf I would stomp their shit.
Scout is meant to counter Demo, not go even.
>scout needs a buff
Yes, yes, make it easier for me to FaN around
