>it's called zoning, it's a legit strategy
Not even gonna give you a (you)
>Trying to handicap people for being smarter than you when the objective is to win and they can do that better.
>>321264597
I hate when people play like tryhard faggots in friendlies...this isn't a tournament asshole, nothing's on the line, so stop playing like a fag.
My rule of thumb is, never play in a way that would get your ass kicked by your older brother.
>>321264684
this.
holy shit, op, stop embarrassing yourself you sore-ass trash-heap.
>>321264597
>blocking the opponent from reaching the goal while you have an advantage is bad
Fuck yourself. I'm choosing not to risk extending my lead vs protecting the lead I already have
>>321264684
>>321265019
>>321265170
>tryhards with no friends justifying spamming
kek
>>321264932
I would kick my younger brother's ass if he intentionally played poorly like you, you cuck.
You don't even know how retarded it feels to dumb yourself down when yoy're actually good at something, because you're bad at everything, hence your desire for others to go easy on you.
Weak fag.
>>321265242
Yeah, people who are better than you have no friends. Don't worry.
>>321265242
Well, no, but I am saying if I don't know you, and we're playing a game, I'm gonna smash your shit in given the opportunity. Tryhard or not.
If you were my friend and you complained that I was being faggy, I would ease up. But you're not my friend.
If its part of the game and its not cheating or a exploit then its legitimate.
>>321264932
My rule of thumb isgitgud_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
>>321265250
>implying you wouldn't get kicked out of anywhere for playing like a pussy faggot.
this esports shit is the cancer of fighters, you would get kicked the fuck out of an arcade if you brought this no skill shit to them back in the day, but now "fgc" nolifes try to justify it as legit. fuck off back to reddit.
>>321264932
I don't know what else to do besides drop the controller and stop blocking.
>>321265646
This. The reason people complain is because losing can feel bad, and losing to something you don't understand how to stop feels even worse.
But the answer is to figure out how to stop it, not whine like a little bitch. Your opponent has no obligation to make life easy on you.
>>321265768
You don't understand what you're talking about, you crybaby.
>>321265646
>heh, it's survival of the fittest out here in the wilderness of fighting games, only the strong are fit to survive *tips fedora*
>>321265818
>video games should be boring because muh competitive spirit
shit nigga vidya be some serious shit.
Zoning is really justified against grapplers.
Fucking faggot who can kill me in two hits, let me make your life miserable for the next two rounds.
>>321266043
Fuck grappler players. They just want an easy win and try to abuse online lag. They deserve to be zoned out like in a nigger in prison.
>>321266031
If you get bored getting your ass handed to you, just play with people who suck like you. I don't play with bad sports for the same reason.
>>321266031
>Be 9 years old
>I'm gonna play a game of little league.
>Wow, we're really creaming this team.
>I guess I'll just strike out on purpose so they can have an at bat.
>Guess I'll let that pop fly hit the ground. It's no fun if not everyone's enjoying themselves.
>Hooray! We all get trophies!!
You are not a special snowflake. I will not give you a participation trophy. You wanna beat me? Then get better. I'm not your self esteem coach.
>>321264597
>Being so dumb you fall for the same pattern over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.
>>321264597
>I'm too stupid to learn how to approach a fireball character without thought
Sorry anon not all fighting games are going to be two faggots just pressing buttons in each others faces
>>321264932
How is the game fun if they're not trying.
I don't like losing, but I don't like winning if they're intentionally playing like an idiot.
>>321264597
>>321265242
>People who say this never understand what zoning actually is
>Always always always refer to spamming projectiles as zoning
If it's easy to beat they aren't zoning.
Learn to recognize patterns.
It's not hard.
Even if you're a casual.
>Beat somebody without cheating
>Get told I'm violating their personal made up "rules of honour" so they didn't really lose
>mfw
Your IQ isn't as high as your opponent and this frustrates you. Hate your creator instead.
>>321266031
>shit nigga vidya be some serious shit
Man, you can't play that card after bitching about losing. If it doesn't matter, what are you bitching about?
>>321266043
>>321266152
>grapplers
the only thing more cancerous than "zoning" and noskill faglords who justify it, anyone who seriously thinks "kek i touch you once and half your lifebar is gone" is anything but cheap shit deserves to be shot.
>>321266210
>>321266317
>>321266347
>>321266393
>y-y-you're just bad git gud guys reeeee
i'm not the one who has to rely on abusing the same move over and over to win :^)
>>321265768
you're not even an 09er you dumb bitch
>>321264932
>Being so bad at a game you get salty at the other person for just being too skilled.
Its not because they are "try hards" It's because you're EAZY $
>>321266562
if its so abusive why dont you go win evo spamming it then
>ITT: OP getting BTFO like the little bitch he is
>>321266564
it's true. arcades had house rules all the time back in the day and that included spamming projectiles or grabs and if you violated them you got kicked the fuck out. it was all good until esports came along and pussified everything. now it's not even about FIGHTING in FIGHTING games, it's about sitting back like a camping bitch and playing keep away because you're not man enough to fight.
>>321264932
I'm the older brother
I TAUGHT you how to be a tryhard faggot in video games, idiot
>>321266649
>implying evo didn't come down to two akuma players throwing air fireballs for the whole fight one year
top kek fgcshitter
>>321266743
Then why was the most popular character in super turbo fucking ken, nevermind why am i asking, you've never played a fighting game other than tekken 3 as a kid
>>321266743
>implying a mental battle is not in its own form a fight in a fighting game
get a load of this guy
>play at low level
>people running into each other
>smashing faces
>tons of kills everywhere
>the winner being decided by who smashes face the smartest
>high level play
>everyone is 30 feet back
>using whatever pokes they have, then jumping away every second to get further away from the enemy
>game does this until someone fucks up slightly
>game ends with like 4 kills
>no one had fun
this is why alterac valley was fun
>>321266562
You're just the guy who can't beat somebody using the same move over and over (^:
>the only thing more cancerous than "zoning" and noskill faglords who justify it, anyone who seriously thinks "kek i touch you once and half your lifebar is gone" is anything but cheap shit deserves to be shot.
Why are you playing a game with these features if you don't like people using them?
Can't wait to see your witty response where you don't address any actual arguments people are making.
>>321266950
i'm not anymore, i'm playing melee, a game where this faggot shit doesn't exist and where you get wins based on combos and actual skill, not facerolling the same low execution bullshit over and over.
>>321267036
>i'm playing melee
>not facerolling the same low execution bullshit over and over.
lmao
>>321267036
heres your you
There's a thing called context for shit, and trying isn't an on/off switch it's a gradient. You can try to win without bringing out every tool in the shed against someone who clearly only has a tool belt.
Tho I feel like there's a lot of self esteem issues with the whole "NEVER GO HALF ON THEM/ME IT'S AN INSULT"
No it isn't, especially if you're playing purely for fun with someone who doesn't play this game in that way.
>>321267036I primarily play Melee
If you don't think zoning exists in melee I can only assume you refuse to vs Marth (among other characters)
>>321267036
Don't fucking associate your retarded ass with that glorious game, you faggot.
>>321267136
You're speaking from the perspective of the person who is the better player, though. If you want to pull punches, sure, go ahead. Do whatever you like.
But if you're worse than someone else, and when you lose you start bitching about how it's unfair you lost, you're a little bitch. They are not obligated to let you win.
>>321267092
okay faggot, i want to see you learn how to play fox at mid level. your little fgc baby fingers will probably fall off because you can't just do hadoken motions and 360s for free wins.
>>321267192
marth doesn't even have a projectile, there's a difference between intelligent spacing (which doesn't exist in "real" fighting games) and brainlessly throwing out fireballs because you're a pussy.
>>321267305
>your little fgc baby fingers will probably fall off because you can't just do hadoken motions and 360s for free wins.
No, you just press A and B for free wins
Maybe a direction
>>321265818
Not if there is now way to stop it
Its like using a weapon that's op as fuck
In that csgo update if you use that revolver that was op as fuck that doesn't make you good, it makes the game unfair
>>321267192
Zoning exists in melee.
Everyone zones.
Literally every character in every fighting game is capable of zoning.
Note:It's not referring to keepaway or projectile spam
>>321265646
Nice ass- got any more of it?
>someone wins a match because of invincibility frames
What's the fucking point of invincibility frames? Why does almost every fighting game have these?
>>321266843
Hmm so
2009 Ryu vs Abel
2010 Ryu vs Rufus
2011 Fei Long vs Viper
2012 Adon vs Akuma
2013 Akuma Vs Ken
2014 Sagat vs Rose
2015 Adon vs Evil Ryu
YEAH DUDE 2 AKUMAS THO L MA O
>>321267436
To beat throws.
Throws exist to beat blocking.
Blocking exists to beat strike moves.
If you wonder why any of these exist, it is because it makes a loop.
>>321267517
Not always. Invincibility frames go through everything in most fighting games.
>>321267284
No, but you can, and often will be the cunt if you're not willing to go halves.
For the sake of this argument lets actually talk about a place where this might actually matter. A situation where everyone involved wants to be playing the game, and wants to be doing it with each other. A party lets say.
You have a bunch of guys who "play" street fighter, as in they know the characters, some inputs and they like to buy each new edition, play for a week and then later on only pick it up to play with friends. And one guy who seriously plays (version of SF you're playing here)
That guy is definitely a cunt if he doesn't pull punches. There's no real ducking around that. He has a ton of things he could do, get out of his comfort zone, try out some shit that he doesn't know if it'll work or he's never done, etc.
>>321267353
Sure, but in that case the game is not a good competitive game in the first place and isn't worth the time. Even if it is OP, the reality is that most people are going to abuse the shit out of whatever is OP and bitching about it accomplishes nothing.
Besides, people are waaaay too quick to label something too OP to stop. Just because you aren't aware of a way to stop something doesn't mean a way doesn't exist. It doesn't mean one does exist either, but my point is it's easier to bitch than solve a problem.
If you've been trying to figure out a way to stop it for a while, and there really doesn't seem to be any way of stopping it, then the game is a bad competitive game. Some games are good competitively with one exception, which is how things end up getting banned in competitive scenes anyway.
OP is not in this category though. He lost to someone spamming projectiles in a balanced game and decided to bitch about it.
>>321267613
No, they don't
Either its strike invincible or throw not both
>>321267352
>what is waveshine
>what is shffl
i understand it's too hard and you'd rather just hadoken all day but that's what shit fighter and tr4sh are for
>>321267750
>what are ultras
>what are x-rays
>>321267750
No, they're both most the time. It depends on the game.
I only hate when people zone with characters that play offensively. It just makes you come off as a dick
>>321266562
If I'm doing the same move over and over again and my opponent cannot adapt that says more about him than it does me.
What, are you going to tell me next that throwing is cheap?
I've never played a fighting game, but what's the big deal about spammers?
if its such a shit strategy, why do people rage against it? shouldn't it be easy to punish?
>>321267816
>smash babies brag about wave dashing
>tekken has been doing it for over a decade and don't jerk off into their own mouths about it
>>321267704
Sure, and I agree with you. But in that situation, if someone starts talking about how spamming projectiles is no skill bullshit and the guy winning is a fucking asshole, they're STILL a little bitch.
What you should be saying in that instance is something like "Man, we all concede you're the better player, but we're just looking to have some fun games right now." or even "Mind showing us some tricks?"
Notice how OP doesn't sound anything like this because OP is, in fact, a little bitch.
>>321267136
I wouldn't play a game with a friend if they wanted to hold back on me. Nothing to do with self esteem, i don't base any importance on my 'video game ability', i just like to have fun and playing with a handicap is usually not fun.
>complaining about zoners
>zoners complaining about grapplers
Gentlemen, gentlemen. Can't we just agree that every playstyle is shit except for the one that you personally use?
>>321267704
Impossible if you're good man.
I usually just sit out and watch, because I'm actually good at videogames, and if I'm playing someone who doesn't know to learn by getting his shit pushed in, I know he's fundamentally and forever worse. So I can beat a guy like that with a random character and one hand and prefer not to play at all.
>>321267939
It is easy to punish, fireballs often have quite a bit of recovery to them so you can just jump over them and hit them in the face
>>321267816
You're telling me you've never seen someone get jabbed out of an ultra? its rare but it does happen, most ultras are fireball invincible however
>MKX
>>321267942
tekken is a slow clunky piece of shit where you pick eddie for free wins, melee is the most fast paced and technical fighting game ever made. gee i wonder why.
>>321264597
>I am retard smashplayer who doesn't understand actual fighting game strategy
Keep mashing smashfag.
why can't you adapt?
>>321267613
Invincible moves tend to lose to blocking. They are high risk many more times often than not.
There are invincible throws though.
Either way the idea of it is to blow through something, but the risk of using the moves is high and they are not absolute.
>>321267939
There's no place for your logic here, anon. Peoples feelings are hurt because they lost a match in a video game.
>>321264932
The fuck are "friendlies"?
Why don't you just outright ask people not to fuck you in the ass too hard, because that sounds like what you're arguing for.
>>321268068
>implying melee doesn't take more skill than spam fighter and mortal kuckbat
>implying melee doesn't have a bigger playerbase and more money involved
>implying melee didn't save your shitty evo tournament from permanent irrelevancy.
T O P K E K
>>321267728
>people are waaaay too quick to label something too OP to stop.
This is the truth.
>>321268063
yeah dude nobody can stop eddie from winning all those tournaments, not even lars.
look i know eddie fucked you up in tekken 3 as a kid, but you werent a competitive player then, and you're definitely not now
>all these people in this thread thinking anyone is complaining about skill
No one is complaining about legitimate skill you retards. you aren't fighting with tactic, you are fighting with cheap shit that shows outright that you have no skill so you lean on the easy way to play.
In a word you are casuals.
>>321267036
>no zoning
>not repeating the same low tech combos
That's literally all I do as Marth.
>>321268208
>tekken
>not at evo
>melee
>at evo
and that's just evo. do you know how many tournaments run melee but not tekken?
>>321268171
Friendlies is when you play without anything on the line, basically anything non-competitive
>>321268013
when the gap is too big you can't learn shit.
And in some cases they don't -care- about learning, they're happy with what they have and want to chill and have fun at a party.
And people who play at the top levels have in the past in several games said they learned stuff from games where they were holding back and playing unusual stuff.
>>321268309
tekken tag 2 and tekken 7 were both at evo, but i know smashbabbies don't care about fighting games, so i wouldnt expect you to know that
Smash Bros might be more your speed, champ.
>>321268179
>meleefags actually believe this
>>321268274
>zoning with fireballs
>easy
lmaooooooooooooooooo
Sorry anon not every fireball character is O.Sagat
>>321268274
>Person uses easy to play
>Person has no idea how to do it effectively
>They just do what is assumed the right way to do it or do it mindlessly
>Implying this is not hard to beat
You can play however you want, it is only an issue if there's no way to beat it.Or if it's Elena's healing but only a good player would know how to use it to make the game stupidly unfun
>>321267613
Moves with invincibility frames tend to be extremely punishable on block (shyru). Just block and punish.
>>321268274
lol
>>321268274
You are complaining about skill, though.
If you're crying about me using my own projectiles to my advantage, then you need to git gud breh
>>321268274
>complains about 'cheap shit that takes no skill'
>you are casuals
The amount of doublethink going on here is off the fucking chart.
>Stop cheesing me!
>>321264597
>Playing Injustice
>Playing as Sinestro for shits and giggles
>Opponent complains about zoning
>Opponent is playing DEATHSTROKE of all characters
>"Fine, I was going easy anyways"
>Switch to one of my subs
>35% combo off of a hit confirm as Lobo
>Into a mixup
>Into another 35% combo
>Into a reversal bait
>30%
>Opponent is at one lifebar, and I'm still at two
>Opponent begins to use their guns
>"So, what's this about no zoning I hear?"
He never complained again. I wasn't even playing Black Adam or Superman. That would have been really funny.
>>321264597
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0WetHkYVtw
>>321264597
These games are played for money, and sometimes, a lot of it. And yes, you are allowed to "zone" at those tournaments. Go ahead and win some easy money.
>>321268274
shut up retard and jump over projectiles or use the tools that your character has to avoid them and get in. footsies. yomi. oki.
get over yourself. you suck. simple as that.
>>321267816
>comparing traditional fighters to smash
Is this a new meme?
>>321268335
How are you supposed to "git gud" for serious matches if you're intentionally playing like shit every other time you play with real people?
>>321268603
F G FUCKIN C MAN
>>321264597
>Being a scrub
Sorry against good people with spacing and approach zoning is harder in most fighting games then actual rushdown because the pay off for proper rushdown is setplay or mixups/pressure where as zoning the pay off is simply another moment of keeping your opponent out.
Maybe if you weren't a weak willed individual you'd get it. But i guarantee when someone complains about a gun grenades etc in a shooter you say "git gud" or "its part of the game"
Weak willed casuals don't belong in fighting games. Even in SFV people like you will be pruned easily. You're just bad simple as that and unwilling to change that. If you black list strategies and refuse to adapt to them well claiming yours are "proper" you're the definition of a scrub.
>>321266347
>>321266481
>>321268068
You can't rely on patterns when dealing with human opponents. Just because someone did three fireballs in a row, doesn't mean their fourth attack will also be a fireball. It's impossible to know what they'll do until they've already done it, so you're best off just concentrating on your own actions and ignoring your opponent. Whenever I play competitively, I just try to think of my opponent as a training dummy, and focus only on my mechanics and eliminating random chance whenever possible. That is, if my opponent has a fifty-fifty, one of which is a low for 15 damage, and another is an overhead for 30, I will just block high 100% of the time, regardless of whatever my opponent tends to do, because it's the optimal play in the long-term.
>>321268009
I'll agree to disagree with you because I don't blame anybody but myself if I lose a match in a fighting game.
>>321268742
holy shit you are BAD
>>321264932
I bet your older brother is some burn out pot head with insecurity issues who hit you when you beat him with legitimate tactics because he couldn't counter them. Therefore ingraining them on you.
>>321268662
There's often a distinction made between matches that you're using for practice, and friendlies.
Why is this allowed?
>>321268793
Thanks you too.
>>321268179
I dont get this whole spam meme. Do smash players actually think that tournament level SF is just hadokens?
Hell you don't even need to go to that level to see that hadoken zoneing isn't a good strat. Just get above 1k pp in ultra ya scrub.
>>321268742
Most good players WILL stick to a pattern until you show them you are smart enough to beat it and adapt.
>all this autism
Fucking fighting games.
Shit genre
>>321268742
>I can't read or bait opponents.
>>321268852
What's even funnier is that fireball zoning hasn't been a legit strong strategy in SF in over a decade.
>>321266031
>Zoning is boring
Not really setplay like Marvel is boring but zoning is overall more interesting because it requires perfect space control , reading your opponent and doesn't pay off anything but the damage itself.
>Tips fedora
Just the same to you friend for taking a fake superior stance on what is allowed and not allowed. Fighting games are deep games because of how simple the layout is but because its a mind versus another mind. No tactics are barred unless its outright cheating like a glitch that freezes the game etc etc. Sorry you sucked at one. Go back to Souls pvp its the place for people who wanna feel competition with no depth or modern shooters.
>>321268801
but theres nothing on the line in practice either anon :^)
>>321268803
i think you're memeing but its allowed because if its blocked you can full combo him
>>321268852
i swear i think ive only seen valle actually do hadouken zoning in the way people complain about, but the fact that he can do it the way he does is very impressive
>>321266043
>>321266152
>>321266562
I hate grapplers too.
They always find a way around my fireballs and shit.
>>321268603
Holy shit, this is pure undiluted salt. I can feel my blood pressure increase and arteries harden just by watching it.
>>321268603
>gets sweeped 3 times in a row on wakeup
JUST BLOCK YOU FUCKING MORON JESUS FUCK ANYONE CAN SWEEP SHES NOT OP AAAAAAAAGHH
>>321269016
>but theres nothing on the line in practice either anon :^)
Do you actually have aspergers or are you just being a pedant?
>>321269127
im kidding family
>>321266861
>The smartest
Objectively wrong. Low level fighting games between two low level players are decided by whoever is willing to play the stupidest and randomest. Also by whoever uses whatever moves take skill to actually adapt to/counter.
So sorry kiddo you don't like thought you like being random. At low level play neither play has good fundamentals , neither player has good concept of how to use their tool set properly and neither player understands consistent mind games/reads.
Really you should consider suicide for thinking that is "smart".
Based off of beta 3, who do you guys think will be strong? Justin Wong thinks it's Nash, Vega, Chun, Zangief, Cammy.
>>321265646
This
Developers should fix their shit
>>321268891
Well then that's their prerogative, not mine. Again, I don't care about my opponent. What they do isn't important to me. All I care about is catching them with a combo starter and executing the highest damage combo I can. Literally everything else is secondary to me.
>>321268983
You're right, I totally cannot. That's why I don't bother with "mix-up" characters. I don't want a character with a bunch of moves that have a 50-50 chance to be great or suck. I want a character with a handful of always useful moves, high combo damage, and no strong counters.
>>321269183
you can never really tell these days.
>>321269193
did he say anything about why cammy might be strong? she seems like a pile of shit
im thinking birdie, chun, gief and nash
>>321269285
Not exactly sure, but F.Champ's top 5 is the same except for Gief (he said Bison, which I agree with more)
>>321268936
(You)
>>321269241
>>321268742
People are just disagreeing with
>You can't rely on patterns when dealing with human opponents
You totally can actually focus on exploiting habits and patterns. Hell, you can create them during a match and then subvert them just to fuck with your opponents expectations.
What you're describing is your philosophy towards these games. Other people deliberately focus on fucking with peoples heads within the game and it works for them.
There's nothing wrong with what you're saying, but it's one approach among many.
>>321267436
To give characters without consistent defensive tools a defensive tool to ward off a autopilot opponent. Just having it makes them think. But they're almost always punishable so you can make your opponent believe you will do something it will beat and then punish and make them regret ever using it.
Its not a hard concept to understand. Its a stable because some movesets inherently need something to fit that type of defensive mechanism. Or in some cases like Sol in GG it exists as a way to keep Sol in momentum because his moveset is based around it so he can get out of pressure if he guesses/times it right.
Really can you imagine Ryu without a dp? He has nothing. He has okay attacks in terms of speed up close nothing special for breaking pressure. But a DP plus blocking consistently creates a tool set where he can get back to his portion of the game.
Alot of 3d fighters don't have alot of invincible moves because 2d is vastly different in characters that require them as 3ds momentum is different same with its spacing.
>>321269392
i only played 1 bison and i never saw any bipsons on stream, so i dont really have any opinions of that character, he's a bitch and a half to put up with when he v-triggers though holy shit
>>321268793
>legitimate criticisms of a game
>"lol ur just bad"
this is why your game is dead compared to melee
itt the low level losers that couldn't survive the third dimension
>>321269241
>Mix up characters
Every character can mix up. Every character can bait. It's all based on what tools you know you can use in various situations, and what tools they have that they can use in various circumstances. If you can get your opponent to believe you're going to do one thing, but then do another, that's a bait. If you know what your opponent is thinking or going to do, based on your knowledge of his character, your character, and his playstyle, that's a read.
If you have several moves you can use in the same circumstance, and force your opponent to guess what you're going to do, that's a mix up.
EVERY character in EVERY fighting game uses these to some degree or another.
>>321264597
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpwZgTyyVV4
>Use cheap tactics in game
>People tell you you're being cheap
>LMAO GIT GUD SCRUB XD REKT LMAO ITS A LEGIT TACTIC LE SALT
>mfw going into /v/ lobbies on guilty gear and shit and fucking destroying you faggots
>>321267418
Not the same artist, and I'm going to be stoned for this, butShadmanmade a whole set of a female vault dweller
>>321269241
So you want ken
>>321269756
>"pro" player gets smug about beating a literal child
the fgc, everyone.
>>321268742
>Ignoring your opponents
You won't be good and you aren't good if you try to claim so friend. You will become a flowchart in your words a optimal flowchart but still a flowchart. I will read you i will bait you and i will take you apart. Everyone has habits.
Also you act like fireballs are without their counters. You can walk in blocking them , you can react to alot of them with a jump to punish them like Ryu/Ken fireballs opposed to Guile ones and you can go through them with moves that beat them depending on your character.
Sorry kiddo but ignoring the opponent is idiotic. Also you can also play reactionary. Almost everything can be reacted to in fighting games with enough practice. Its a combination of so many things to ignore one aspect because you're bad at it is to already give up. Execution is the only exception because every fighter has characters with simple execution like grapplers/shotos. Even so they require a degree of that as well.
>>321269756
What a fat faggot.
>heh watch me cheaply bit a literal child, EPIC
>>321269496
Well, my approach may not be the only one, but I can't imagine doing it any other way. Trying to trick someone or figure out what they're planning is like trying to describe a color that I've never seen before. Is my opponent going to try to block high or low? I don't know, what does the color Sporgle look like? It's a pointless question.
>Charge characters take skill
>>321269845
>the fgc, everyone.
That could be said just about every competitive community.
>>321269805
Have you considered
A) Just jumping over the fucking fireballs
B) Choosing a character that doesn't suck ass
C) Getting good with the character you did choose
>>321269845
I think hes just laughing cus its funny
>>321269936
go to bed ltg
>>321269756
This is so perfect, how did you get video of OP?
>>321269936
Go to bed LTG.
>>321264597
OP is a master tactician
>>321269193
>grappler being T1
A man can dream...
>>321269937
that's wrong, but you definitely know better than everyone else, so you won't listen
>>321264597
>this type of person is what Capcom wants
Fucking hell you are worse than those faggots who complain about walking forward into a full screen fireball
>>321269936
How do they not?
>>321269241
You sound like the person who always picks the derpy ass mixup autopilot characters that are accepted as top tier and then says they're "overrated" because you can't use fundamentals properly after people keep you.
>>321270130
>>321270070
>>321270008
>he can't beat somebody unless turtles on the edge of the screen and spams OP moves
>>321269892
>cheaply
get good
>>321269892
>taking the side of a ten-year-old playing an M-rated fighter online with his mic on
Though, honestly, even I was better at MK at this kid's age.
>>321270062
There's kids like OP in every game. If they get beaten by anything, it's cheap and gay and you need to play with their choices and at their skill level or you're a fag. You want to see something that's really cheap and gay?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QpYoHprg_c
>>321269805
>fucking destroy those faggots
Wow those tactics must not be very cheap afterall
>>321268603
>guy deleted his twitter, reddit, youtube AND partnered twitch accounts after this
>>321270226
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6q-EK_34TwQ
its great
>>321270105
Name one competitive community other then Quake/Unreal that doesn't have smug players that literally act like man children. I only say Quake/Unreal because those are the only two i myself haven't seen them in.
>>321269193
I think Jwong is wrong about Gief, but the rest are fair.
My personal Beta 3 tier list:
TOP:
>Rasheed
Everyone is sleeping on this guy right now. The nerfs he got weren't even that bad. Feels like Nash, but with a reversal, and better walk speed, at the cost of zoning.
>Cammy
Everyone I talked to had issues with her, and it's not like we don't know how to fight against her.
>Vega
The nerf was minor. Vega's still insanely good.
>Nash
This guy has that Sagat thing going for him: You'd have to work to make him NOT viable.
MID:
>Chun-Li
Barely off of the above list. Chun's way better than most give her credit for. Most pros have said good things about her, because they aren't stupid.
>Bison
He's still Bison. He was top in Beta 1 and 2. Not so much now, but still a threat
>Birdie
Watch the fuck out for Birdie. This guy's tools are really strong. Wouldn't be shocked if he's top 5 when all is said and done.
>Zangief
Gief is going to give newcomers a lot of trouble, but he has matchup hell against Rashid and Nash. Still very strong.
>R. Mika
Not nearly as good as the last beta, but a strong character with enough tools to win.
>Ryu
Feels stronger than last beta, in comparison to the rest of the cast. Not good, not bad.
>Karin
Overrated by most. Karin has matchup issues, and her pressure game has huge holes. Too high of risk to place any higher.
LOW:
>Dhalsim
Zoning just isn't good in this game. Sim is hard to use, so he might go up when people figure out tech, but for now he seems like he's missing something.
>Ken
Why. Not. Just. Play. Ryu? Ken lost some of his best tools from the last Beta, and he wasn't even that good in that one.
>Laura
Laura feels like Poison in SFxT: A character with a moveset designed for strong Oki, in a game that Oki doesn't matter. Also, she's free to anyone who can zone. Pretty sad right now.
>Necali
Shitty normals. How can anyone win with jabs like that? Lol.
>>321269925
A pointless question from your perspective, senpai. It's not your focus. Fair enough. Making blanket statements about it not being possible is incorrect though.
People exist who are damn good at reading the other player and punishing habits, who focus heavily on noticing and taking advantage of those opportunities, and it works for them.
>>321264932
Nigga, I get mad as fuck when I lose to people in games I'm just worse at, but I would never ask someone to tone it down because then it stops being fun FOR THEM
>>321269856
>>321269815
>>321269698
I suppose it's worth mentioning at this point that I'm autistic. Not like a meme but I got an actual diagnosis in sixth grade. People say fighting games are about community, but I don't care about community. I just want to pick the most consistently powerful character and execute the longest possible combos. The only reason I play human opponents at all is because CPU opponents are too easy.
>>321270097
Gief has been top tier before. Vanilla SF4, and Alpha 3 come to mind
>>321270226
>He can't beat someone unless they rub literally against his face so he can mash SPD or some other faggot shit.
Try playing a charge character sometime. You'll see its much harder then playing whatever slop you claim you can play.
>tfw your waifu has a playstyle you cant stand
>>321270440
You might fare better in a game like Skullgirls or Marvel.
>>321270468
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't gief high tier 2 in 4? I didn't touch alpha that much so I can't really speak to that.
>>321270440
Well then, I hate to say it, but you're fucked.
Sorry.
>>321270226
>fireball
>op
Who the fuck are you playing
>>321270360
>everybody who isn't a charge apologist is le black dsp meme man
>>321270360
>I'm doing everything for him
Whenever LTG says this i crack up inside. He legitimately has never heard of less is more. A single precise and smart movement will always be better then 100 flailing moves that serve no purpose. Hitting buttons because you're scared if you don't you will get hit versus waiting for the most potent time to hit the button and knowing it will hit with no fear.
I used to be just like LTG in that way. I would be uneasy to even attempt to block sometimes and try to jump away/hit a button constantly. Its ironic he calls people cowardly when he does that.
>>321270389
i gotta argue with some of your stuff. i don't get how cammy is top tier, can you explain that to me, i didnt play many of them, and i didnt see any of them.
Birdie is the best grappler free right now, nobody played him outside of well known players it seems, there was a japanese tournament yesterday and hagejin won it with birdie
Karin's moves are extremely hard to punish, and has amazing footsies tools
and an nonpunishable sweep on block
Necall isn't a footsies kinda character, he's a rushdown/mixup deal, he has a lot of tools similar to yun
Laura with fireball loop is mid tier
laura without fireball loop is dan tier
I opened this thread thinking it was about mobas.
>>321270389
>Bison
>Top in Beta 2
Sorry friend you didn't check his changes then. He was fucking terrible in beta 2 if you looked at his actual framedata and damage changes. Beta 3 Bison was a massively improvement to his damage/framedata. His SKs are more varied now as well LK SK is -4 MK SK is -3 and HK SK is -2 and ex is 0 or +1.
Bison was shit in Beta 2 and the only reason people could think otherwise imo is because they didn't attempt to hit buttons on him and thought his LK SK was still -1.
I don't mean to be a douche i'm just telling you objectively Bison's framedata was shat on beyond believe and his damage was mediocre in Beta 2. Beta 3 Bison was awesome. Not quiet Beta 1 probably like 75% as good but Beta 2 was awful.
>>321270731
his mentality is a lot of peoples though, youre playing the game wrong if you backdash/block. Its a pretty normal attitude to have when you're new
>>321270440
Play Marvel its your best chance. Sorry with that mindset you're fucking boned if you want to be anything more then a scrub killer. And i mean very low level one.
>>321270710
>Apologist
I can explain their weaknesses on paper and explain why they aren't braindead. Sorry i'm not some scrub who can't handle them.
>>321270710
>charge apologist
>>321270539
Wish I could say I knew the feeling.
>>321270809
Fireball loop? What did I miss with her?
>>321270440
i agree with >>321271141
go play marvel or anime, those games have insanely long combos
>>321264932
>wahh i get stomped online and it makes me cry like a baby they shouldnt play so rough
>>321268603
I bet this guy frequents /v/
>>321271204
this sort of stuff https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzXU5ep20Vo
>>321270948
I also forgot to add in Beta 2 all versions of Bison's pillar became unsafe. This is a big nerf because the move has almost no purpose. Beta 3 Bison was solid and great but that move itself is still just filler with no real purpose outside of ex pillar.
All 3 versions are something around -7 up to -10. They are combo enders that kd but Bison has better pressure on standing with his toolset in SFV. They have very hard ranges that are rare and sometimes depending on hurtboxes near impossible to make safe on meaty. The last purpose they have is as a good v-trigger activation tool.
But overall they're too unsafe to make use of in pressure , they aren't worth ending combos in because Bison objectively benefits more from standing pressure/ending in ex SK and making them meaty is too hard.
I hope Capcom improves this move. Bison in Beta 3 looked awesome and i had lost alot of faith after seeing his changes in Beta 2/hearing what play tests like UM Tyrant thought. But now he hits quiet hard and his framedata is better for his other specials. His dash seems alittle shorter and faster as well and his alpha counter is better.
>>321271204
>>321271358
the one he did to nash is what some laura hit me with online, shit was nuts
This is as bad as people who bitch at you for listening for foot steps in shooters i forget the term but i puked the first time i heard it
>>321271231
True, but playing flowchart or not being able to comprehend mixups means your punishments in those games are going to hurt a lot more. Especially in Marvel where fucking up 2 reads means a dead characterif you're lucky.
>>321270809
Laura's fireball loop and fake crossup are cool, but once you figure out how to deal with her, she becomes much less terrifying.
I feel Birdie is strong, just not as strong as the ones above him. He's got matchup issues.
Karin's moves, though hard to punish, are still mostly unsafe. Why would I pick her when nearly everything that Rashid and Nash do is safe, and they both have fucking fireballs? Sweep is good, but you can't get pressure without using something unsafe.
Necali isn't a footsies character, but this is a game about footsies. He's also not a rushdown/mixup character because his mixups aren't very good. He's a bad Evil Ryu right now. I expect he'll be buffed big time in the new version.
Cammy has arguably the best normals in the entire game, great walkspeed, strong mixup game, decent defence, and big damage (She doesn't use her meter for anything, so she gets Critical Art pretty much every game). Reminds me of Chun, but with worse footsies, no fireball, and better at pretty much everything else.
>>321271231
>Anime
Unless its Blazblue that suggestion is insulting as a Guilty Gear player. Games like GG/Uniel/Melty have a intense neutral game between pressure and combos just like traditional. If you have no good approach in a game like that you're just as fucked.
>it's a "MUH HONOR" thread
>>321271439
>not using your sense of sound
dont reproduce
>>321270948
I main Nash. Nash got shit on in Beta 2 as well, but he was still top tier as fuck, and only dumbasses thought different.
Even in Beta 1, I didn't have Bison as my number one, because most people who had an issue with him weren't aware of V-Reversal.
My top pick for each beta was:
Beta 1: Cammy
Beta 2: Vega
Beta 3: Rasheed
>>321268603
so is the game their playing super shallow or something? Or is that dude just talented to go diamond in one day.
>>321271612
>reading comprehension?
>whats that?
>>321271651
>Weren't aware of alpha counter
Exactly. Which is why when i saw his Beta 2 changes were nothing but nerfs outside of the tele dash in every fucking way from damage stun to LK SK becoming -4 despite being ACable i was so fucking upset.
Beta 2 Bison was like Beta 1 but worse. If people knew his framedata/knew to AC he would be the worst in the game right there imo. Beta 3 Bison is more well rounded. Hes alot more unsafe and needs to space better but his pay off/pressure seems more consistent and like it will last longer if the final build of him is like that.
If anything Ken is the Beta 2 Bison of Beta 3. He lost a few key tools that crippled him hard especially losing his lk tatsu ex/fierce dp at most ranges.
>>321268651
New? Not really. I can vividly remember going on the Soul Calibur 2 Gamefaqs board back in 2003 and seeing kids talk about how that game is about mashing buttons and saying Melee is a smart skill based fighter.
>>321271439
Was it soundwhoring or something? I remember CoDbros saying shit like that.
>>321271515
yeah i think i only lost to one laura, and it was the only guy who knew the loop
every tournament except capcup has been won by a birdie, i hope they tone him down or bring everyone up to his level
karin to me feels a lot like dudley with great normals and complex combos, but requires good footsies
yea i guess thats the issue with necalli, but i think thats how hes supposed to be played, the only normal that actually goes anywhere is roundhouse, so id assume you have to constantly be trying to get in
i think if people try playing cammy has a footsies character she'll be a lot better because everyone is playing her as SFIVAE cammy and it just doesnt work
>>321271657
It's shallow but the guy playing is also a fucking scrub
>>321271657
I haven't played it in a while, but when I did it was pretty shallow. Also a lot of players were trash like the guy in the video too so it was easy to get high ranks.
>>321271850
As I Bison player, I want justification for using half of my moveset. What purpose is there to using the flame, the fireball, or the Devil's reverse? None of them seem to have any advantages over the knee press or head stomp.Invisible devil's reverse in psycho mode is straight up hilarious though.
>>321271935
I think it was called that, when i first heard it i thought they meant mic spam then when i looked it up my brain did flips trying to figure out how its even a thing
>>321269805
Arksys games require about as much fundamentals as marvel so that's not as impessive or telling as you think
All it really says if you can get hard knockdowns into setups and do a combo
>>321271925
Well, to be perfectly honest, Soul Calibur is basically kusoge, so even Melee is better than that
>There are people on this board, right now who don't know that winning is the goal but fun is the ultimate objective
>These people legitimately convince themselves that as long as they are winning, they are having the maximum amount of fun, even if their playstyle reduces the enjoyment both they and their opponent experience
>>321271651
>>321271850
Also just for fun i'd probably say
Beta 1: Birdie. People would learn to deal with him but his cr jab was consistent and being able to get 60% off a 3x jab confirm with super was insane. Almost everyone was great in Beta 1 though and atleast decent. Id say Bison/Cammy after him though
Beta 2: Vega for sure hes just really consistent with no real holes he can AA with a variety of tools if hes knowledgeable on them
Beta 3: Honestly Vega again. Followed up Chun Li. They just have such consistent tool sets. Pokes don't go away when people adapt if you use them right they're always a consistent tool. Vega has average life and 3 frame jab with clawless that goes mad far. Also cr lp x 2 into light roll is a amazing footsies confirm in claw. Chun Li for similar things.
I'm glad Beta 3 looks more like Beta 1 cast strength wise though. I just want Capcom to unnerf Ken and maybe give a few medium heavy medium medium combos back they took before. Also Ryu mk tatsu hitting low because i foresee him having issues in some matchups he won't be able to get super close in consistently to st mp cr hp so his damage on crouchers will be bad depending on the mu.
>>321272069
It's unfair to people playing CoD in loud lan cafes.
>>321272058
You can cancel devil's reverse into super (I don't remember if that's the same for head stomp), hp flame can also go into super while being a good anti air in general, and fire ball is just a fire ball.
>>321272175
They can suck my cock and buy some headphones
>>321272125
>not having fun while losing too, admitting that you were outplayed, and looking to improve your game that way
ultimate scrub
please kill yourself
>>321271527
ive played a little xrd, im too stupid to learn it, but you cant lie and say that gg doesnt have crazy long combos with characters like milla.
Its not a broken piece of shit like marvel of course, GG is a fully functional game and is fun, i was just referring to the fact that marvel and anime have very long combo strings and he might enjoy those more than street fighter
>>321272058
DR has purpose in v-trigger. But honestly i don't know if it has a place in a game like SFV. Its still a okay tool because it seems safe atm and can be used to catch people off guard or into a late super cancel. But i agree its kinda bad.
>Fireball
Now hold the phone. Its
1. Safe on block
2. Baits people into jumping
3. Bison can dash up behind it in order to gain space on people who will block it on the ground
It also has a amazingly large kinda hitbox when it explodes and seems rather active.
But as for the flame and DR i agree they're purposeless in most situations. Flame is better served as a more start up more chip version of SK for pressure like early betas. I think DR is doomed though but flame is more important in the long run.
>>321272125
>implying there is no fun in learning how to counter a play style
>>321272265
ALL of Bison's specials can cancel into super. Head stomp and scissors both can too.
His fireball is only actually a fireball when it's EXed. Otherwise it's about as useful as his scissors except it does less damage and moves them farther away, which is bad for Bison.
And as for anti-air, HP flame has NOTHING on Bison's crouching fierce.
>not teaching your friends how to deal with "bullshit" strategies
Whenever we play fighting games and my friends have trouble with something. Be it, projectiles, counters etc. I tell them how to play around them.
It's funny when they lose and you start to hear "THAT MOVE IS SO CHEAP. ITS BULLSHIT, THIS GAME SUCKS"
Then I tell them how to counter it and suddenly they can get around it. When I try to ask if its still bullshit they are just silent.
>>321272125
But you're implying that isn't my play style. Some people naturally enjoy playing a consistent lame fundamental style of picking their opponent apart.
What duty is it to me that you're having fun? If that is my style should i simply let you get close for free? Would you be having fun if i didn't play at all? Sorry kiddo fighters are more about satisfaction then fun. They're stressful , thought intensive and executionally taxing. You don't play them for instant gratification you play them for the satisfaction of doing something that takes work you like. You know like video games because they stopped being a real hobby.
They should add cooldowns for retards who like to spam nonstop. Just like in that game about robots... Thundersomething or what was it?
>>321270226
>Balrog
>Bison
>Blanka
>Honda
>Vega
>Decapre
>Dee Jay
>Turtling
Okay senpai
>>321272292
>Play a random online
>Use a character you're not very good with
>Win easily
>Other player starts shit talking and getting mad
>Starts going all out with a different character and wins
>Calls you shit and leaves
Holy fuck guy I was just trying to have fun.
>>321272515
they do have cooldowns, its called Recovery and You cant have more than 1 fireball on screen at a time
Look at all these fucking baddies who can't deal with fireballs, why are you guys even playing fighting games? Joining in on the esports hype? Kill yourselves
>>321264597
Top tier gameplay
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMoaTA8-PjU
>>321272125
>there are people who dont think its okay to be casual
>there are people who dont know how fun it is to not be a casual
why cant we get along
>>321272476
>All of Bison's specials can cancel into super
I got bad news for you buddy. I dunno if you played Beta 3 but SK can't cancel into super anymore. Its been that way since the Dhalsim build.
Kind of a nasty loss too since its his most consistent way to land it in a skillful match. Now its a AA and a very close combo confirm.
>>321272515
>retards who like to spam
Nigga what. You are the retard if you can't get around it.
>>321272584
When I said cooldowns.. I meant cooldowns. Like 3-4 seconds for a fireball-like moves. Those moves gives nothing but promoting cheap-style play.
>>321264597
i zoned your mother last night bb
>>321272686
ill play you in any fighting game, you can spam fireballs and ill show you how to beat them
>>321270389
>>321271651
Can you explain what's good about Rasheed? Not doubting, just haven't seen him played much and I'm curious - thinking about fucking around with him once I get B3 cracked.
>>321272601
>Injustice
>Not terrible
Nice example kiddo. Injustice was one of the most painful games i played. The weird clash system , every move.combo for the most part pushing the person who them and the person who is getting hit massively away from one another and the overly sized arenas with stage hazards.
The game has almost no merits of its own to stand on.
>>321272756
nigga aint minus on shit
>>321272512
>What duty is it to me that you're having fun?
If one person can have fun, or both people can have fun, and you consider yourself a decent human being, wouldn't you pick the latter?
Your "style" isn't set in stone, anything you may be pre-inclined to is overwritten by what you practice doing.
Satisfaction and fun do not exclude each other.
>>321272686
How is it cheap if there is ways to get around them? Just because you don't know them doesn't mean it's cheap. It just means you are bad.
>>321272686
There's a reason why Rising Thunder is nearly dead, buddy.
It's because the game is fundamentally fucked up when you add cooldowns.
Dragon Punches are supposed to contest anti-airs, but if you are aware of the cooldown on your opponent's cooldown, you can just get right back into an aerial approach and not even eat shit for it.
Well, RS also had a fuck-ton of other problems like a shit ass walkspeed and having no art style to speak of...
>>321272641
Well I KNOW the head stomp cancels into it because I did it in the beta.
>>321272643
>>321272740
>>321272867
I didn't said I can't. I said they play like a retard and it's not interesting to play against spam ''''''zoner'''''' rather than a combo-god.
God fucking damnit why are you so nearsighted, /v/?
>This thread
>>321265646
But most, if not all, modern Capcom fighters require the use of one or more in-game glitches and that is even considered fair game.
>>321266031
>crying about losing
>then complain people take games seriously
I can't even play fighters, but your attitude is what's wrong. Why would you cry over something you don't take seriously? That's pathetic.
>>321272756
>That st mk that on block is hell good and has a amazing hitbox and speed
>Light tornado is -1 or -2 on block properly -1 so its like a motion LK SK from SF4
>Super useful v-trigger that can cancel off good shit even combos off a cancelled cr mk
>Super mobile
Hes just consistent. His only hole might be he requires meter to AA consistently without being creative with AAing. But he can also move around so much he can avoid alot of jump situations all together. His damage is okay too not too high but decent.
Hes consistent in every regard really. Although i think people will have a easier time once they start alpha countering the light tornado.
>>321272878
I didn't said anything about anything other than projectile moves. Those should be on CD.
>>321272860
What fun is it if your opponent isn't giving his all? I absolutely hate it when people go easy on me. How can I learn the match up if you don't even give me a chance?
Just remember /v/, anything you criticize if it beats you, you better still criticize if you beat it.
Otherwise, it's just salt.
>>321272924
If you know how to get around projectiles then match hardly EVER comes to a spam fest. You FORCE the opponent to go on offense because you get around those projectiles. How hard is this to understand?
Only time it comes to a spam is when you don't know how to get around projectiles.
>>321273012
So why would anybody ever use a projectile then? There's no purpose to a weak, slow move you can't use for 3 seconds that gets easily blocked.
SFV has so many tools for getting past projectile spam that make way more sense and reward not playing like an idiot, and they don't prevent the spammer from doing it at all.
>>321267816
>>321267305
>>321267036
>actually implying melee is more competitive than actual fighters
Fucking tourneyfags, I swear to god.
Smash is not a competitive game. It's a party game. Get over yourself.
Go play some real fighters or shut the fuck up, your opinion means nothing if you play fucking melee.
>>321273182
god damn fireballs suck so much in SFV i love it, feels like 3rd strike tbqh family
>>321264597
Argentina said the same thing about the falklands
>>321272860
My style is how i have fun. If i was having fun playing other ways i would've stuck to one of those ways. Also i consider satisfaction fun. I don't enjoy tasks where instant gratification is involved very often since i realize i didn't do anything.
Fighting games are a 1 v 1 game my goal when i begin is too use all of my tools the way i wish to dismantle my opponent well reading/baiting them to the best point i can so i can get hit by the least amount of their tools.
I will not sandbag to make them feel better.
>Decent human being
I consider it the decent thing to do to not hold back or sandbag against my opponent. If my opponent is looking for help/advice or practice help i won't beat them to death with everything. But if they are simply another player i am not going to hold back. I would not do the same to them because i consider it a insult to sandbag on other people.
I would rather be beaten when faced with the strongest then be given a tap on the back and fake words of encouragement.
In a competitive genre it is not my problem to make sure the other person is having fun. Its not a decent thing to do to sandbag for them. If they don't want my best and can't handle it they can leave or go to a genre that is easy and full of people like them with false sets of rules.
>>321267704
I'm a fucking scrub and I hate it when my friends "go easy" on me whenever we do something competitive.
I'm not a fucking girl. Whether we're playing rugby irl, or a fucking video game, you just stomp the shit out of me if you can. Only way to play.
Get fucked with your pussy attitude.
>>321273027
You can try your hardest in any playstyle, mate. You don't need to solely apply yourself to something you already recognize as lame.
>>321273182
>So why would anybody ever use a projectile then? There's no purpose to a weak, slow move you can't use for 3 seconds that gets easily blocked.
Feels good to mix your combos with some fireballs ones in a while. Rather then using them as a main offensive force.
Even a real fight is about who can gain the upper hand and who acts the fastest and smartest
zoning literally applies to every game ever
what game are you talking about
