Is League of Legends pay 2 win?
I think we should invent new word for it. It is not pay2win (since you can't obtain anything that gives advantage that can't be bought with game currency)> I would call it pay 2 not grind or something
>>321058654
Not in the traditional sense but that image is exactly why LoL can be considered p2w.
By not giving each player the same tools/options/characters limits them, giving others an advantage unless you cough up the money to unlock each character.
It's the same problem i think Overwatch will have, if new characters will be introduced behind a paywall. You will have to buy them to have a fighting chance to execute strategies or to counter.
>>321058654
No. Having played LoL, Dota, and HotS, I can say that while I prefer HotS, LoL is far from P2W. Characters are quite balanced for what you get, and some of the lower cost-tier characters are very strong, even stronger than top-cost characters.
Paying any money to Rito for anything other than skins is akin to throwing money into a furnace..
Oh and Dota has shit-tier 'Make everyone OP' balance. I hope it dies.
>>321058654
yes and no
>>321058870
>since you can't obtain anything that gives advantage that can't be bought with game currency
I've not played LoL, but can't you buy something that gives you extra damage or something? Something you activate before a match?
>>321058870
look at it this way
in-game ranked, your opponents can only ban what you have access too.
this means that they effectively have a free ban on all champions you don't and have less options - meaning more value on their ban
another view is that Player A and Player B have IP - both gained from the same amount of time playing the game
but Player A opts to purchase RP - they purchase champions with RP, and spend their IP on runes
Player B would just spend his IP on runes or champions but he'd have less resources than player A.
this is more pronounced if player B does not even buy runes but champions, since runes make you objectively stronger
>>321059023
>this piece of entertainment isn't perfectly suited to my personal taste
>I hope it ceases to exist
You must be 18 years of age or older to post on this website.
DotA is the superior microtransaction system because of its already stable market infrastructure for item selling between players and DotA 2 being more of an initial experiment than it was a flagship title.
League of Legends, while still having a vastly inferior payment method, isn't P2W in the slightest.
>>321058654
>game is in Spanish
Fucking Peruvian, kill yourself
Don't you have a favela ground war to be fighting?
>>321059171
No. Runes and Mastery are acquired by leveling your account and spending in-game currency. They cannot be attained any other way.
>>321059171
yeah but everyone can grind the points by playing games to buy them, runes
>>321059196
Meant the balance type. Seen it in a few other games, and I've never seen it done to where people I've played with have fun. Sure, I know people do have fun, but I've never actually seen it. But Dwarven Sniper and Ursa both really do need to die.
>>321058965
Overwatch was confirmed to never have heroes behind a paywall
the game is also not free to play.
>>321059390
You can effectively buy IP via boosts, doubling the amount one receives compared to a non-paying player.
>>321059312
Access to more champions is buying power
>>321059178
You are right, but if you see this another way B can buy the same things but have to put much more time to do it if he want to use in game currency. I understand it is unfair but it is another thing than for example A.P.B where you can buy better guns than obtainable in game for real money
>>321059318
thank you for the laugh based retard
>>321058654
The only truly free 2 play games I know of are Dota 2 and Path of Exile so yes.
>>321059023
>Oh and Dota has shit-tier 'Make everyone OP' balance. I hope it dies.
>>321059468
>Dwarven Sniper and Ursa both really do need to die
Spoken like a true 500 mmr baby.
Sniper doesn't have any escape abilities. Pick a character who can gank quickly (bounty hunter w/ a orb of venom for example) and shut his ass down.
Ursa is a slow, fat bear and he can't do shit if you're not in range.
Ward rosh, buy a ghost scepter and force staff, and keep out of melee range you faggot.
>>321059468
>Ursa and Dwarven Sniper are OP
LOL WHAT?
>>321058654
More like gay2play
>>321059643
Fuck off shitcolor
>>321059772
I can understand how Dota 2 makes money, but how PoE is still profitable baffles me
I've seen no one in that game that uses pets or fireworks or additional slots or shit like that
>>321059643
I'm not the one getting diarrhea from dirty drinking water, so you need all the cheer you can get in that third world shit hole
>>321058654
No. I've got an account that has only the champions required to play ranked and one set of runes, which you can afford after ~10 ranked matches in diamond, it's in the top 10000 in the ranked ladder of Europe.
Runes are probably the only significant advantage, but you can make do with one or two pages with ease.
>>321058654
Better than doto where everyone have everything unlocked and because of this most matches are equal.
>>321059810
Fuck getting out of Ursa's range. Play Legion Commander. Buy Blademail and Shadow Blade. Pop up behind that mother fucker, pop Mail, and shout 'FIGHT ME!'. Or play Abaddon, and give zero fucks about their damage every other minute. Or RNG Assassin, and dance around every hit they throw at you.
>>321058965
The thing is that in lol, you like a hero and then you learn to play it.
I can pick storm spirit in dota, but I won't pick him anyway because I don't know how to play storm spirit.
In lol the same logic would apply, only that I wouldn't be able to pick storm spirit to begin with, the point in which someone wants to play he doesn't have can only actually happen in unranked play (why would you play something you don't know how to play in ranked?)
And unranked play is blind pick so counterpicking literally can't even be a thing.
>>321059954
>>321059997
It's not a screenshot from the game you fucking morons. That picture is old as fuck and doesn't even have all the heroes in it.
>>321060075
That's actually a horrible idea due to new Enrage
You kite him until that shit is done, that's the new way to play vs Ursa
>>321059970
PoE is a low budget indie game with millions of players
They don't need much and they are doing just fine I think
>>321059023
Two guys start with level 1 accounts. One of the guys decides to pay real money for exp and ip boost.
The one that pays money gains advantage over the other by:
>acquiring runes earlier and do more damage than others
>unlocking summoner spells earlier like flash and teleport
>getting more ip to buy more heroes
How is that not pay to win? You gain clear advantage from paying money.
>>321060494
>How is that not pay to win?
Because he would get matched with people with a similar level, they wouldn't get paired together.
>>321058870
>I would call it pay 2 not grind or something
Thats literally p2w. Not as blatant as other games but still give some advantage to players that pay.
The only game that does f2p right is Dota2.
>>321059547
No it isn't.
>>321059489
Yeah, but you still have to play. And the only runes that make an actual difference take so long to unlock that by the time I hit that point, I had enough money to buy literally all of them (that I wanted) immediately.
>>321060494
because that's a retarded comparison, ranked doesn't start until level 30
>>321058965
All future Overwatch heroes come with the base game, so there's that. No paywall at all.
>itt: dotafags infect yet another thread to aggressively defend why their game is significantly less popular than League
>>321060835
When both of them are level 30 the one that paid money has more runes and champions. Still P2W.
>>321059486
>trusting bl*zzard
>>321060964
But by the time they are level 30 both of them have complete runepages and whatever they play will be equally powerful.
>>321058654
Like who cares, no one worth mentioning plays it.
>no other game does the Smite style of unlocking where you can unlock heroes with the ingame currency or bought currency, OR you can buy the god pack and get every god and all gods that will ever be released
Seriously, it's the best method (outside of Dota 2's "everything is free")
>>321058654
yes
>>321061087
millionaires play it
>>321058654
its p4a
pay for advantage.
By paying you have earlier access to runes, because you are not buying heroes, giving you a literal advantage in the leveling phase.
At level 30, the more heroes you have, the better you are able to draft and increase odds of winning. If the enemy picks a hero with a strong counter, and you don't have it, you are at a disadvantage. Also assuming you arent 4k games in, and you buy heroes, your rune selection is pitiful.
>why does this game that has a significantly smaller slice of the market share have a better microtransaction model than League
gee, I wonder why shasta sells for a dollar less than coke
Just refer to this chart
>Ekko
>Costs 6300 IP
>Is average
>Annie
>Costs 450 IP
>Can get solo pentakills with a minimal level of skill
>Is one of the most dangerous mages in the game
Runes give you less than a 4% boost in stats, too.
>>321061203
>saving time is p2w
this is a retarded chart but neo-/v/ is going to eat it up
>>321060918
>Higher learning curve
>Can't really "main" characters
>Requires map awareness and rotations instead of just winning your lane
>No real meta progression system besides some literally irrelevant player level
I prefer Dota, but I understand perfectly why it's less popular than LoL. And I'm fine with that.
>>321061187
>its p4a
>pay for advantage
You are aware that "pay to win" means paying money to get advantage over other players who doesn't pay, right?
>>321061203
By that chart dota is (or was) pay to win
>>321061187
Does League even have counters? It has, like, "fuck I hate laning against Teemo on Volibear" but I don't think hard counters actually exist.
>>321061224
ADCs are consistently the same too
Tristana has been a strong ADC (during ADC-oriented metas) since the first season and she's literally free.
>>321061296
how? exp didn't give you anything but guaranteed cosmetics
no gameplay effect at all
>>321058654
No. The only times the game was remotely close to pay 2 win was the few times Riot released a character that was completely broken. But even then, a non-paying player could have saved up their IP for release, which is like a week or two of on and off playing.
>>321059468
those heroes are farm from good
ursa is getting there though
>>321058654
As much as SFV
>>321061296
Really? Explain it.
I mean, you can't be that retarded that you can't follow a simple chart.
>>321061336
No. By the nature of their business model they have admitted there is less variety in heroes and no real HARD counters.
>>321061261
Nice bait, kid. But I'm not gonna bite.
>>321061272
>>Can't really "main" characters
I don't know where this idea comes from, people main heroes in dota all the time.
Sticking to one hero every single match is literally one of the most common ways of climbing mmr.
>>Requires map awareness and rotations instead of just winning your lane
The current state of laning in dota is pretty much how LoL lanes have been for years anon, only there is a dedicated jungler ganking there
>>321061343
No, you counter champs with what ever kawaii waifu got buffed for no reason
>>321061343
Still saves you time
>>321061336
Renekton/riven is probably the strongest one i can think about.
If the players are equally skilled Renekton will destroy Riven 100% of the time
>>321058654
LoL is essentially pay to win. People will argue that it isn't because you can unlock everything by just playing. What they don't tell you is how long it would take to unlock everything (something like 250+ days of playing with no breaks at all), you will never unlock everything in the game by just playing. And anyone who has played the game will tell you, having access to more tools is an advantage.
>>321061224
>listing 1 hero comparison
Also, if you were in any game and were offered a 4% better chance at winning an engagement, you would take it.
>>321061336
Back when I used to play there were some matchups where you could literally just sit and soak. Grog soaked blade used to apply on his musket ball, which cut healing in half. So on mundo, that plus ignite and you health is just fucked. You just sit at your tower and throw cleavers at creeps.
Twitch used to have insane problems against any mobility hero, or someone like shen.
>>321061284
I've seen MMO's that take it to the extreme, and make it nearly impossible to compete unless you pay. You can still compete, but you have less tools, and less options.
>>321061467
Time in getting cosmetics
That's not a gameplay advantage
>>321061467
Saves you time in what?
Are you legally retarded?
>>321061337
>Nunu, Poppy, Warwick
>Some of the most dangerous brawlers and tanks in the game
>450 IP
>Rengar, Gnar, Zac, Vi, Rek'Sai
>Average at best
>6300 IP
/v/ would you
>buy p2w items that shorten the game's playability because you get bored being better than some players (item-wise)
OR
>grind for months but you get your money's worth (FREE) plus you get to know equipment behavior, points of interest in maps, etc. but you can't clear your backlog
>>321059072
care to explain
>>321061534
>I've seen MMO's that take it to the extreme, and make it nearly impossible to compete unless you pay. You can still compete, but you have less tools, and less options.
Yeah, some MMOs and other f2p gay games (like most phone games) have a lot of shit behind paywall. Still, LoL business, while less bad, is still p2w.
>>321061628
What is your elo m8
>>321061637
I'd rather not play a shitty game that has P2W shit in it
>>321061637
i'm wouldn't touch a p2w game with a 200ft stick
>>321061637
I would rather the game doesn't have the majority of its content behind an arbitrary pay/grind wall and that the gameplay is good enough for it to be replayable with the content unlocked like Dota and Monday Night Combat.
>>321061413
>I don't know where this idea comes from, people main heroes in dota all the time.
>Pick Invoker, enemy picks OD
>Pick Meepo, enemy picks Lich
>Pick NP, enemy picks Clock
>Pick Skywrath, enemy picks Pugna
>etc
Good luck doing anything.
>The current state of laning in dota is pretty much how LoL lanes have been for years anon, only there is a dedicated jungler ganking there
It's true that 6.86 made the meta a bit more LoL-like, but there are still way more rotations thanks to TPs and because of that you still need a lot more map awareness to win against a gank-heavy lineup, for example.
>>321058654
>Los Dire
>Los Radiant
>>321061754
I just want specific language instead of generic terms.
I think of it like the difference between a genocide, massacre, mass killing, and culling.
All bad things, all extreme, but all different.
LoL's model sucks, especially after the lies and deception of their player base.
"We will make more heroes at all price points!" 2 years of only 6300 heroes.
They also took any hero with a unique trait and kept making them blander until they fit into the same generic box as the other heroes.
>>321061480
Cassiopeia vs ryze, both with the old design, that was a complete slaughter, ryze could do nothing.
>>321061413
The whole laning thing is actually funny because there are so many things that are the same.
Mid becoming a farmfest with midlaners farming the jungle all the time? Yeah that happened in lol years ago.
Radiant having a harder time hardlaning while they had an easier time safelaning? LoL had it the same way, purple (top side) had an easier toplane while blue (bot side) had an easier botlane.
And in both cases the fixes were really similar, they made top and bottom equal and they made farming the jungle harder for midlaners.
Ill never get why the dota community can still have such an adversion to lol while it's insanely clear that the games learn from each other, dota has been removing RNG and buffing supports for something like a year now, a while after lol did the same, some changes were even mirrored 1:1 like making wards give a gold reward or make units based off abilities be killed in a number of hits instead of having an hp bar.
It almost feels as if icefrog has more respect for lol than most of the dota community.
>>321060760
are you fucking stupid
>>321061930
>Pick Invoker, enemy picks OD
too soon
>>321061367
From a pub perspective, Ursa has a 58% win rate to be fair (54% at 5k+ doe)
The comp sample is too small atm.
>>321061523
You only really need enough characters to fit every role then maybe pick up additionals in certain roles like tank and support. As long as you know strength, weaknesses, builds, and general strategy, you're golden.
>>321061928
thats all folks
>>321061930
>>>Pick Invoker, enemy picks OD
>>Pick Meepo, enemy picks Lich
>>Pick NP, enemy picks Clock
>>Pick Skywrath, enemy picks Pugna
>>etc
>Good luck doing anything.
You can get counterpicked all the same, maining a hero or not, playing a small pool of heroes has been done since the dawn of time.
Hell you even get casters to comment on it all the fucking time when a pro player picks a hero he is popular for, now you are going to tell me that people like bulldog didn't main nature's prophet and lone druid?
Why does Riot even still charge for champions? They have hundreds of skins and millions of players...I understand it being necessary for a little indie game like Awesomenauts where they sell expansion packs like that, but for the biggest multiplayer game ever, it's just bullshit.
>>321062005
>he thinks Dota is learning from LoL
more like learning from HoN
>>321058654
Problem whit that Picture OP is assuming that picks actually matter in low tier beginner games.
In Dota 2 you have the hardest counter pick more so than any game and people still pick the same shit over and over and usually go 5 lat game Carries.
Only difference between lol and dota 2 is that in lol you have limited possibilities to be cancerous in the beginning while in dota 2 you can be pure cancer at any skill level.
>>321059442
Wrong, you can't buy runes with money, only with ip, so everyone grinds runes.
>>321062187
Jew money, why else.
Yeah technically. The person who pays for heroes has more variety (not that that REALLY makes a difference, there were never any super duper hard counters and the game relied on who played better) of choice, but the real advantage is in having all that IP the other players have to spend on heroes on Runes. Having a varied selection of rune pages really does provide an advantage.
It's a pretty lesser evil compared to 'real' pay2win games giving like +% damage to people who buy a weapon, but it's not completely harmless like riotdrones want you to think.
>>321061930
>but there are still way more rotations thanks to TPs and because of that you still need a lot more map awareness
You can tunnel vision way harder in dota because you don't have a guy roaming 24/7.
Switching back and forth between lol, dota and starcraft, after playing dota for 4 months my map awareness has completely gone to shit, if someone is missing from a lane you take care, but you are comparing this with a game in which not having your lane warded 24/7 is considered something only scrubs do.
>>321058870
it should just be called "pay 2 have fun"
because thats exactly what it is
>>321062098
Until someone picks a hard counter to you because you don't have that many champions.
There is more to the game than just picking a role, specific champions have their own strengths and weaknesses and some simply get shit on by others.
Having more tools available to you is always an advantage. If we played rock, paper, scissors but you were only allowed to use rock and paper, you will never win against me ever. Same logic applied to games like LoL but to a lesser degree.
>>321062187
But they dont charge for champions.
They give you an OPTION(!) to buy them for real money.
>>321062220
>putting heroes behind a paywall
>it's for our own good
Wow you really do have the reasoning skills of a LoLfag
There actually is an advantage to nother buying Champions so often because you're actually forced to learn those champions otherwise you risk wasting all the IP you spent on it. So a free to play player, or a player who doesn't frequently buy champions can actually have better mechanics than one who plays. League, beyond the meta, is fairly balanced, and this makes it possible to stay relevant even if you don't pay.
But beyond that, you guys act like a lot of the money doesn't come from cosmetics because those must be purchased with RP. Really there isn't much of a problem, nothing is really pay to win once you get to the higher level 30 brackets, which is when the game really matters anyways.
>>321061336
I don't know if they still do draft in ranked solo queue since I haven't played in years, but in Draft mode, the more champs you have, the better off you are, by a huge margin.
Not only that, but having a full roster effectively immunizes you from nerfs and buffs, it's a huge long term advantage.
>>321062351
But why do they have it? The whole purpose of MOBAs is for them to have infinite replayability and never be the same with the huge variety of characters and thousands of combination possibilities and outcomes. The grinding is just pointless and hinders balance when you don't have the champions and runes unlocked.
>>321062079
Thats because they let the stupid fucking bear solo rosh 3 times, farm enough to get blink and a sheep stick, and get easy kills since the entire enemy team is too fucking stubborn or stupid to get a ghost scepter.
They're called pubstompers for a reason.
>>321058654
The thing about League is that every champion fits in to about 8 categories, so you only need 8 champions
AP Support
Tanky Support
AD Carry
AP Carry
Assassin
Bruiser
Jungle Tank
Jungle Assassin
If you have a champion from every category in this list you basically have every champion in the game.
Dota 2 is balanced around heroes hard countering each other, while LoL isn't. I prefer the art style of Dota, but I hate the "deep" burden of knowledge required to play, and think it bad game design.
there are people actually defending Riot's model
let that sink in
>>321058870
>(since you can't obtain anything that gives advantage that can't be bought with game currency
I think you should learn what the definition for p2w is.
>>321062485
There are people old enough to post coherently on this website that were born after Horse Armor DLC was released.
People were playing lol here all the time way before dota was even a topic of conversation around here anon.
>>321062469
well, thats just fucking sad
>>321062485
There are people actually defending atheism.
>>321062469
That's.... actually correct.
Nice.
>>321062471
I don't really know what people mean by burden of knowledge when it comes to Dota. Yeah, I know pretty much all of the abilities in Dota (probably missing an interaction or two, whatever), but that's because I played it. I don't know shit about LoL because I didn't play it.
I mean, if I go up against Echo or Ekko or whoever in LoL, am I going to play the matchup right automatically? Or Braum? What does LoL do to tell me what these guys are doing that Dota doesn't?
>league porn is all but dead
This is because they went and removed all the lore.
>>321062329
>Until someone picks a hard counter to you because you don't have that many champions.
There aren't that many hard counters in League and the ones that do exist are either tanks, require leveling for their abilities, or need items to fully utilize their advantage. Even then, it's a lot like fighting games where if you know your downsides you can battle your way out of it or at least keep things even. That's without help.
>>321062469
yes exactly but you're missing one crucial detail
there is an obvious best champion in each of these categories at any given time
the way Riot balances the game (or perhaps I should say the way they don't) which one is the best is constantly be changing
so basically you still need to constantly be buying new champions anyway if you want to compete properly
in this way League really is kinda P2W
>>321058654
Can I spend money after obtaining the game on anything other than static expansions that segment and fracture the playerbase?
If yes in ANY way its p2w.
>>321062469
This is ignoring that Riot randomly changes which heroes are allowed to be good in that role and which ones will be total shit.
>>321062730
>What does LoL do to tell me what these guys are doing that Dota doesn't?
With LoL the burden is "Everybody has a basic X, Y or Z ability 'type' (Be that Skillshot Stun, Gap Closer, Steroid, Knock up ect).
Basically everything in League is very, very similar (vs Dota's abilities just being 'similar'), and League babies shit their pants when confronted with that fact.
>>321062381
That's nNintendo fans in general
I actually would like to know what peope prefer
Dota 2 which is
>playing around the champions your team and the enemy picked, knowing if your matchup is good and your ability to play around the map
or LoL ;
>most is based on your personal skill with the champ,your knowledge about the dmg you can deal and if you can fight the enemy opponent. Also the importance of runes/masteries that fit your champ.
I think i prefer LoL in this regard. You hardly see a 20/0 yasuo losing a game while in Dota 2 if your team sucks and the enemy plays fairly well even if you are fed its hard as hell to win the game
Also RIOT is creating now champs that are fun as fuck.
>>321062485
Let them defend it if they are stupid enough to support it it's their money
But it triggers me when someone actually calls it a F2P model
>>321058870
payorgrind?
>>321062469
I guess Assassin means Nuker, but what the fuck is a Bruiser? Tanky Carry?
>>321062730
>>I don't really know what people mean by burden of knowledge when it comes to Dota. Yeah, I know pretty much all of the abilities in Dota (probably missing an interaction or two, whatever), but that's because I played it. I don't know shit about LoL because I didn't play it.
Coming from someone that has played a lot of dota:
There is a very fucking stupid point in which if you want to learn the game you are better off opening a wikia and start reading than actually playing the game.
Then there are the exceptions which are listed in pretty few places and can fuck your match up.
And it's all incredibly fucking frustrating, even moreso since the game is not intuitive and filled with exceptions (which is, objectively, bad game design)
They are hammering some of these down now though, I tend to agree with >>321062005 in the sense that there are things that lol does right and im glad that icefrog doesn't have some sort of prejudice against them
>>321062730
>I don't really know what people mean by burden of knowledge when it comes to Dota
Every skill must be the same, because learning is hard and unfair with the retards and gurl gamerz.
>>321062793
The way I see it (I'm a different guy btw), it's fine for a game to be "pay2win". Every one of my favorite games required me to buy something - typically the $40-$60 game. Can't win at Street Fighter unless you buy the game, right?
Well, Let's say I invest $60 in League of Legends. What does that get me. A full rune page? No, they won't let me buy that because that would be "pay 2 win," but now I'm pissed my time is wasted. So I buy an IP booster to get a rune page? Ugh. Okay, then maybe I get a handful of champs. Good ones. Then a patch nerfs my champs and I need to buy more?
There's no way LoL is a $60. It just costs too much is the problem.
>>321062310
>Dota
>pure roaming, no jungle guys every game like BH, Spirit Breaker, ES
>League
>muh jungle routes count as roaming
>>321062972
Well it was a nice thread lads, shitposting screencaps have arrived.
>>321062914
>I have no friends
>>321062793
>the way Riot balances the game (or perhaps I should say the way they don't) which one is the best is constantly be changing
Not really. Some characters like Riven, Jax, Renekton, Karthus, and Alistair had extremely long periods of time where they were solid to great picks at all levels. Not to mention Riot had a history of underpowering new characters for release as to not have repeat situations like release Xin Zhao or Jax.
>>321062963
Standard top laner bascially. Think Garen, Yorick, Udyr
>>321062469
And people say this is better than dota, lol
>>321062963
Exactly
Old pic but still worth a read.
>>321062970
I agree I hate exceptions, but I've seen exceptions in LoL too (sometimes as bugs, sometimes not). They just come with the territory. Though, to reiterate, I feel an exception should be the last choice for "balance" though it seems the community and Valve disagree with me.
>>321062730
>tfw have all of the hero skills memorized and the voice lines as well for all of them but the ones I don't play (so basically all but 5)
>>321063083
>shitposting screencaps
Literal worlds of a LoL dev are shitposting now? Do you want the "biggest drone" award so hard?
>>321063074
>>pure roaming, no jungle guys every game like BH, Spirit Breaker, ES
Who are you trying to lie to?
>>321061261
>time is money
>big business old men ruling LoL with all unlocks
>meanwhile to lowlife peasant has to grind for hundreds of hours for levels, new champs, runes, grind literally never ends
embrace it: no league pro has unlocked all champs and runes via grind. at some point, they bought the heroes and runes to maximize their combat-capabilities by day one of the purchase
>>321063225
Such a shame because the heroes are genuinely fun to play, overall moreso than Dota they have skillshots. And that's just more fun than having 2 passives + a stun.
I still play dota, but I wish they'd port LoL heroes over
>>321062793
>>321062864
While a sometimes a few champions are clearly OP, most of the time there's not a huge difference between champions in any category.
>>321063403
>most of the time there's not a huge difference between champions in any category.
Delusion
>>321063389
The best thing about Dota is the item-play with heroes and the hero combinations. I don't like how LoL barely does anything interesting with items, the way they do runes, or how their characters are pretty much skill-shot + gap closer.
Always amuses me how loltards practice mental gymnastics to deny their game is P2W
>>321062187
Because you would see 90% of the fanbase get frustrated and potentially quit (See every P2P/B2P game that went F2P.)
>>321063389
Gotta see what happens after pitlord.
>>321063505
>The best thing about Dota is the item-play with heroes and the hero combinations
To a degree but that itself is tiring.
A forcestaff on cm is not much different to a forcestaff on rubick or lion.
Support gameplay is probably more unique in league anyway
>>321063225
Lots of misinformation there. Like last 15 to 45 minutes. Hour long games are an extreme where no one wants to do anything but farm.
>>321063603
Ehhh
Supports have way more interesting abilities in Dota 2 and they can deny so they have something to do in lane.
But I feel like supports in League are little more impactful in relation to the carries.
>>321058870
WIN doesn't just apply to actually winning games, it also means gaining everything that can be gained while playing the game, including characters.
>>321063582
nothing because hes a shit hero
>>321062963
Top melee that builds both dmg and survivability, with a slight focus on survivability.
I'm more interested in the difference between a juggernaut and bruiser, sounds like the same shit to me.
>>321058654
>agili dad
>some females
female dads
>>321063603
>Support gameplay is probably more unique in league anyway
Yeah, recking carries at low level, roaming, ganking, stacking and pulling camps, sniping the courier, playing support in LoL is always fun and rewarding. Oh, wait...
>>321063603
No way bro, if anything League gets wrong is that supports feel so boring to play (This is my experience, from S1-S2 so it maybe outdated)
I felt like a ward bitch, also due to the nature of AP gains, you really can't do heavy damage, and you're relying on your carry to do more damage even in early game.
As opposed in Dota, i've gotten used to not relying on my carry to do shit because how shit most of them are early game.
>>321063727
>no one wants to do anything but farm.
but that sounds like every League match to me
>>321063829
Who cares about him. I mean rather that it's the last fucking hero left from the old stuff.
>>321058654
The game has some limitations that some people may find annoying. However, throwing money at the game won't help you win it. Money won't be a defining factor in you winning any individual match or even climbing the ranking.
I guess it could be pay to win if you're playing it as a "gotta catch all the champions".
>>321063742
>Supports have way more interesting abilities in Dota 2 and they can deny so they have something to do in lane.
Kinda, but they are often played in very similar ways.
For example, dazzle and rubick are pretty different in terms of design, but they are actually played very similarly.
Q for both is for ganks/peel
W for rubick, like E for dazzle is spammable in teamfights and situational in lane
R for rubick is a spell that has to be casted at a certain time on a certain player, like dazzle's W
Rubick's E is an aura while dazzle's R is a fire and forget spell.
A similar thing happens with cm and witch doctor, then you have a bunch of supports that are there for the CC and little more.
This obviously happens in lol to a degree as well, but what I am arguing here is that differences in design don't equal to differences in gameplay
>>321063563
I don't deny P2W, I just prefer LoL to DotA, and don't really think all too much about it because I'm more focused in having fun/winning.
>>321064101
>having the OP champions of the patch and more complete runepages won't help you win it
You must be really bad at video games (and legally retarded) to believe this.
>>321058654
It's a chinese game for chinese people, what do you expect?
>>321064146
I'd say Shallow Grave is a very different ability to most others but I see your point
>>321063970
Certain roles and characters, yes. Jungler is generally expected to be aggressive though and top lanes traditionally skirmish her and there to push the other out of lane. It's rare that both groups can't ever get anything done to push the game forward.
>>321063923
Supports were given way more presence in S3 and onwards in lol.
Nowadays it's not that weird for a support to deal more damage to enemies than the carry through the game.
>>321063367
Seeing as most pros have like hundreds of thousands of IP along with every champ, I doubt that for some reason. Especially since they play hours of games a day every day and you get about 100 ip each game if you factor in the 150 ip from win of the day, and they've been playing since beta. Hell, I'm a scrub playing since early 2013 on and off and I already have almost every champ and have had all the runes I could want for a year
>>321064146
>Q for both is for ganks/peel
>W for rubick, like E for dazzle is spammable in teamfights and situational in lane
>R for rubick is a spell that has to be casted at a certain time on a certain player, like dazzle's W
Call of duty is like playing online chess, you push some buttons and click with your mouse.
>>321058654
>OP attempts to troll people
>people actually give advice and opinions
>OP keeps attempting to troll by posting dumb shit
>people just ignore it and discuss other things
>OP starts to shit post since no one cares anymore about his fail attempts
Any who, I was wondering how's everyone's win streak going?
>>321064217
>don't really think all too much
yep sounds like a LoL player
>>321064243
>having the OP champions of the patch and more complete runepages
I fail to see how money is impossing an entry barrier here. Maybe you should use less words to call people clinically retarded and more to give your argument some legs to stand on.
Isn't it that the IP boosts are never worth unless you're playing over 10 games a day?
And even with that, the return is so insignificant that you might as well have save your money and just play?
I always looked at it like this:
Two people start level 1 accounts blah blah.
One uses boosts to buy more champs.
The other learns and mains a smaller pool of champs.
A: While having the bigger pool, never became mechanically good with his pool of champs nor does he know the matchup.
B: Mains his champ, buys the runes for that champ, and knows their matchups.
This is ideal as fuck tho.
I really wish they'd do away with the tiers of runes and leveling the account, but that's just me I guess.
>>321064146
Oh man, your comparison really went to shit after Q
>>321058654
Man I like Dota 2 more but this image isn't accurate.
In that image there are clearly more carries in the free rotation, LoL rotation has two of every role, so having a balanced team is always fine, also there can be mirror matches, so really you would never have a problem countering Meepo, you would just pick him.
Also you would have to be a retard to not buy new champions because IP gain are pretty high when you start the game so you would obviously have more champions than the free rotations.
This image is incredibly flawed at trying to make a point and I know that doturds will be like: "YEA SEE DIS LOL SUCKS LMAO" when both games are just different, not better than the other.
>>321063923
I main support and if I play Brand, Morg, or Lux support I consistently deal the most damage in the game. Plus they're all good picks now because thunderlords and frost queens claim being OP
>>321058654
yes
>>321059970
>New Expansion/League comes out every 3 months
>Causes resurge in playerbase
>Dev team of maybe 3 people
>Millons of players
>Free PR for being a not shit Diablo clone with some good graphical choices
>>321061203
lol, this fucking chart every thread
stop posting this stupid shit, according to this chart tf2 is p2w
>>321063603
Bullshit. A forcestaff on Crystal Maiden is totally different than a forcestaff on Rubick or Lion.
A smart Crystal Maiden with a force staff can 1v1 any melee hero in the game. Rubick and Lion can't do this. Meanwhile, a forcestaff on Rubick allows him to pull off some silly combos (forcestaff into big aoe ult if you're too poor for blink staff is one obvious one).
The item works with the heroes skills, and different heroes use it differently. That's not to say it doesn't have some generic uses (like pushing someone to safety or pushing an enemy away), but to say it's the same item on every hero is the same is flat out retarded.
I hate how passive LOL really is
Most of the game it feels like I'm trying to a) deward 20 wards or b) trying to burn off an enemy flash.
It's so boringly defensive
>>321064475
>I fail to see how money is impossing an entry barrier here
Nobody is talking about "entry barriers", we are talking about advantages for paying.
Maybe you should read all the words or everybody will notice that you are clinically retarded for real.
>>321064302
So, I looked up some of the things in this image and as much as I dislike LoL as the next guy there is one thing wrong with the image.
>Subsidiary
>is a company that is owned or controlled by another company
This would imply that Tencent owns Activision Blizzard, which is wrong. Tencent has a minority share in the company ever since its investment but doesn't own it, it has about 12% of the shares (compared to 48% with Epic Games).
>playing league of losers
why isn't moba posting bannable yet?
>>321063403
Must be why something like 70% of LoL champions are never played in competitive play, and like 10-15% of them are only played frequently.
>>321064706
Fuck you, it is, you're a retard and you get BTFO'd every time you bring this up
>people saying Dota 2 is difficult to learn or complex
Will never understand this. Did Dota players make this meme up to feel better about themselves? I went from a moderate amount of LeL and a tiny amount of HoN and didn't really have problems.
t. 1.7k hours in the game
>>321064302
Is LOL bigger in China than Dota?
I thought Dota was still king in China
>>321064543
what is this stupid argument that LoL fags always bring up
it completely falls apart when you realize that PRO PLAYERS HAVE ACCESS TO ALL THE CHAMPS
there is literally nothing preventing anybody who has access to all of the champs from learning and getting good at the game
and just because someone with less choice is forced to play a smaller number of champs that doesn't mean they will become any good at the game
there are people who play the exact same champ EVERY FUCKING GAME just because they want to and they're still dogshit
>>321064895
MMR? Be honest anon.
>>321064895
>HoN
thats why, the first 50 hours for any LoL player to transition to Dota is always the hardest
HoN is pratically dota so you'll be fine
>>321064854
I haven't watched competitive league in a while but if it's anything like before I'd say that 10 - 15% is only about 5% better than the rest of their category with a few exceptions.
>>321061771
only thing he was wrong about was zac being average
the trend still holds true, though, most of the 6300ip champs are mediocre while a lot of the 450ip champs are the most commonly used, expecially in comp play
tristana is one of the best adcs in the game and she's free, ashe is the best adc in the game and she's 450
the only time this p2w thing applies is when a champ is new, they're always op as fuck right out of the gate so riot can make money off of people buying rp to unlock them, most get nerfed into oblivion after the first couple weeks
speaking of which I can't wait for Illaoi to get nerfed, that cunt is fucking retarded right now, banned 99% of the time in all game modes with bans
in all honesty they need to pretty much double the number of bans, there's just too much cancer right now that needs to be banned to even try to enjoy the game
>>321058654
Not pay2win, more pay2skiphoursofgrinding
>>321064875
not even gonna get into this argument with you, fucko
tf2 is not even remotely p2w, anyone who actually plays the game knows this
>>321063839
Jugg don't die.
Bruiser can die, but its unlikely.
>>321064895
Its not difficult, just takes some time and practice.
Most people think they're amazing so they don't bother learning different strats or game mechanics.
I played about 500 hours in 3.5k MMR and barely ever saw a strat more complex than your standard 2,1,2 setup
>>321065059
5% better is enough to guarantee a win 100% of the time in competitive play.
>>321064942
Valves sucking chink cock as hard as they can but are still far behind LOL
>>321065215
And I'm not going to get into this argument with you because I think I've done it three times this week
Wanna fuck?
>>321065284
Yeah but competitive play is a non-issue since they have all the champs anyways. Unless you're considering to ranked to be competitive play in which case I'd disagree.
>>321065283
Man I love 2-1-2
I hate when people do 3-1-1 with a trilane that won't work, 2-1-2 is the most safe pub setup, if you want something more complex go make 4 friends
>>321065345
LoL is owned by the company that also owns China (google it, they own all Chinese ISPs, most Chinese TV stations and the vast majority of all Chinese media in any form).
Why can't all people below 4k mmr just stop posting
>>321065345
>Valves sucking chink cock
Nope.
Valve isn't doing shit and that is exactly the problem. Valve has the "let the community do it" mentality which applies to almost everything, even advertising.
Occasionally you'll see an ad about it on the Steam's frontpage but that's about it.
>>321060075
>321059318
>he picks legion to counter ursa
lol
>>321065345
I was talking more about Dota 1 than 2 in China
>>321064617
Are you retarded?
You could easily make a balanced team out of that fake Dota rotation. The point isn't about the rotation it's about the fact you can't specifically counterpick a strong champion in League like in Dota.
>>321064786
I just checked and it seems Tencent bought the remaining stocks of Riot recently.
http://www.polygon.com/2015/12/16/10326320/riot-games-now-owned-entirely-by-tencent
>>321065368
those other times weren't me, but those people weren't wrong
other than the wrangler and ubersaw and a few other melee weapons, no alternate weapon is better than the stock, you can make the argument that some engie wrenches are situational
either way basic weapons cost like 2 fucking cents on the market, that doesn't qualify as p2w in the slightest, especially since most of them are shit compared to stock
>>321065432
According to LoLking, the highest winrate champions are sat at around 55% winrate, while the lowest winrates at at around 42%. For champions with the same role no less.
Simply owning and picking one of these better champions will increase your win rate by 17%. That is a significant advantage. (For comparison, first move advantage in chess is around a 2-6% advantage, and it's considered absolutely massive)
why is 4chan so obsessed with dota2?
even when I post in csgo or Hots threads on /vg/ there's usually some guy saying we should play dota2 instead
How much I gotta spend to get to Diamond?
Which skin looks better, you guys?
>>321061480
Fiddlesticks/Vlad used to be the biggest one in the game, don't know if it still is.
>>321065742
because it's legitimately the best competitive multiplayer game
>>321065742
dota2 is the dark souls of memorizing retarded obscure details
>>321065742
Because is the only game that does f2p right, so is mentioned in every f2p games thread.
Also, ASSFAGGOTS players think they are hot shit, and dota is the "hardest" one with bigger prices.
>>321065742
All drones are scum
>>321065742
>why is 4chan so obsessed with dota2?
Because this place is full of contrarian hipsters, and LoL is too popular
>>321065858
That's a funny joke Anon
http://www.dota2.com/overview/external
Why is it that Americans hate Dota 2 so much?
>>321065912
Theres always that one retard that blurts out
>because its popular!
When HoN and HoTS players would fit that criteria more than dota.
>>321065087
>Ashe strongest adc in the game
Huh. So did they remove MF, Kalista, Vayne, Cait, Twitch, Trist, Draven, Lucian, Ezreal, Corki, Jinx, and Varus in a hotfix or something? Or are you a timetraveller from a future or past patch?
>>321065874
Nah man, you just gotta deduce that monkey king bar truestrike doesn't work on buildings (buildings that for no apparent reason can get buffed by arc warden's field) because it's OBVIOUS that truestrike isn't actually truestrike but in fact a crit chance with 0% extra damage.
Like how isn't this intuitive as fuck?????
>>321066005
>best balance
>actually f2p
>biggest compettitive scene
>custom games
>>321065447
I know that feel. Tryhards pls go
>>321066065
HoN and HOTS don't have the superiority complex of Dota
>>321064975
>PRO PLAYERS HAVE ACCESS TO ALL THE CHAMPS
That's because they're on specialized servers when doing pro tourneys, when doing matchmaking they have to play/buy like everyone else.
>>321066138
>best balance
lmao
>>321065912
yeah and Dota definitely isn't popular
its only the consistently #1 most played game on the #1 PC gaming service in the world
maybe try taking your head out of your ass long enough to realize that just because hamburgers aren't as popular as pizza that doesn't mean only contrarian hipsters eat hamburgers
>>321066071
Nah, he just plays LoL. Which means he changed facts to suit his arguments.
>>321065545
league is so shallow that 99% of the time you counter a champ by just being better than them with someone you're comfortable with
I have a couple champs for each role that I like, and while on paper I have the unfavorable matchup I still blow assholes inside out because I know the champs I'm playing and how to ward and zone properly
for example:
I swain mid, idgaf who I'm up against, I know how to build and play swain so I rape asshole easily
I either ashe or cait adc, I have years of hon and dota so I know how to zone, harass, stall the lane where I want, and still cs, not having to worry about denies makes it that much easier, I never have trouble with any adcs ever no matter who they are, even ones that should be better on paper like vayne, the only trouble I have comes from the support
I garen top, but that's actually a bad example because garen is broken as fuck and can only be countered by 3 man ganks every 45 seconds
counters are only meaningful at the top .1% of the game, for the rest of us you can win with just straight up better play
>>321060760
Then what's the point of having different champions?
>>321064000
Trips have spoken
>>321066246
nice counterargument dipshityou can't prove me wrong
>>321066160
OK.
That doesn't change what I had in that post.
>>321066071
a properly played ashe is a better adc than any of those, the only ones who are even close are vayne and cait
>>321062963
Semi-carry in Dota.
>>321066398
Nigga u wot.
Ashe dosnt even deal 50% of the dmg a Lucian or MF can do (maybe if she has 100% crit or something).
>but but CC
While you ult someone the other 4 are gonna destroy your ass because you are an immobile shit.
Also you will probably hit the tank 99% of the time with it
I wish I could play Dota 2 with level headed people. Sure my skin is relatively thick, I'm on 4chan. Still it's annoying with autistic rage every game.
>lose first blood
>EVERY time someone goes LOL GG WE LOSE FUCK OFF
It's a video game fuck. Always the worst players who are loudest too.
>>321066261
Except pizza is getting bigger every day while hamburgers has a smaller, yet dedicated core following
>>321065737
If you take the absolute greatest discrepancy (Ryze at 45% vs Brand at 54.5%) there's less than 10% difference, but this is the greatest possible difference, most are lower.
>>321066261
Not for long. CSGO has been steadily rising and rising and is about to overtake it. It's insane how popular it's getting.
>>321066398
Miss Fortune has the highest win rate in normals and ranked for any carry (and she is the most commonly picked carry).
Kalista is the most commonly picked carry in ranked play, with Caitlyn holding the highest win rate.
>>321066767
What do you build on Kalista now that Botrk sucks dick ?
>>321061261
Its exactly what it is you fucking mongoloid. Good luck unlocking all LoL champions with a fresh account. How long will that take you? 5000 hours? And you want to tell me that this isnt a game-breaking disadvantage?
>>321066672
I really wish people would vote for the same 5 maps over and over.
I'm so fucking sick of dust_2.
>>321066767
>Miss Fortune
>misfortune
Mind blown
>>321062972
>riot explains the world
nice shitposting you dumbass
>>321059023
>Dota has shit tier 'make everyone op' balance
???
are you actually retarded?
OP according to what standard? Compared to league? why isnt Dota the neutral balance and League just 'make everyone shitty underpowered' balance.
>>321066824
You can only play 1 champion at a time though
>>321066034
Its 8-11 AM in America you fag. Prime time for US dota is 5-6 hours from now.
>>321059023
>prefer hots
stopped reading there. I would insult you, but mama always taught me to not pick on retarded kids
>>321066949
It's just a meme that comes from some of Dota's spectacular ults I think. And people take it seriously
