Save points: An outdated mechanic that has no place in modern games, or clever way to divide the game into managable chunks while discouraging save-scumming?
>>320941960
outdated
That second thing.
>>320941960
They're only good if used frequently, and as mandatory checkpoints rather than optional save points.
>>320941960
Good if done right like bonfires in souls
>>320942519
This
Save-anywhere is much more convenient since you don't get moments like you want to stop playing but it's still 20 minutes to the next savepoint.
>BUT MOOOOM! I CAN'T STOP PLAYING NOW I HAVE TO GET TO THE SAVE FIRST!
On the other hand, save-anywhere is super casual mode.
>>320941960
As someone that's replaying FF7 right now, unnecessary. Just let me use the whole screen, instead of having to jam myself onto the tiny dot until it makes me read a box of dialogue I've seem 50 times already. I know how to use a fucking save menu, god dammit. Stop reminding me.
It depends. If they're placed correctly they're nice. If they're shit tier like Star Ocean 4 they can fuck themselves.
>>320942519
I sure loved spending 5 minutes running from firelink to 4 kings each time I died.
>>320942519
yeah actually
if they're part of the core mechanic then they're good
if it's a jrpg trying to be like the good ol' days then they're bad
>>320942603
What about those suspend saves where you get a one time save?
Those some pretty convinient along with a save point system
>>320942603
That's why in addition to save points there should be that "save and quit" option that lets you make only one save file that's erased when you load it.
Like in many handheld games.
>>320941960
Right, you should play the game in one go and if you die you should start all over again, that's how games are meant to be played.
>>320941960
>save anywhere
>quickly load back as soon as you see shit going wrong
I can't see any difference between savescumming and plain ol' cheating. you're circumventing all skill and luck-based mechanics to always be successful
>>320942670
>He couldn't handle the tension.
>>320942397
>and as mandatory checkpoints
No wonder eveything is getting dumbed down these days.
I'm a fan of the modern "save anywhere outside of combat and NPC interaction" if I want to spend 10 minutes playing or 10 hours in a single session, I shouldn't be impeded by a save point.
>>320942937
>save points are the only imaginable way to suspend and resume a game
Save points are good for breaking it up--but I like to see suspend saves to help when you need to put the game down quick.
Saving anywhere on World Map is passable, but it can make games a lot easier.
Checkpoints are the stupidest shit to ever exist and should only be allowed in shitty FPS games where you could die in a few shots and story/graphics/action are the main appeal.
>>320941960
I don't think it matters much anymore. Games rarely punish death anymore anyway. And honestly that's fine with me because I'm not there to prove my skill or some such shit.
Savescumming is a fucking joke. I replayed stalker last month and the most memorable thing was never ending quicksave spam. Save points done right are much better.
>>320941960
Bravely Default actually came up with a clever solution. It had classic savepoints spread across dungeons but it also allowed you to save anytime via menu. So it was completely up to the player if he wants to play it oldschool or modern,with the benefit of allowing a savepointplayer to quicksave since it's a handheld game after all
The only real answer is save points with a temporary save state for when you need to put it down right now.
Always Save and Save Anywhere are bullshit and leave themselves open to abuse.
Points break the game down into many more manageable chunks and sections, it also makes them more impactful overall since you are generally taking them on in those chunks. It can be used as an aid to the design and overall impression.
>>320941960
I don't like save anywhere because it encourages massive save scumming, like quicksaving every time you kill an enemy - you might not have to but there's really no reason not to, and you probably will resort to it if you're having trouble on a certain part of the level rather than having to git gud and do the whole section in one go.
It also completely fucks up certain RNG-related elements because you can just reload if, say, you get addicted to a chem in Fallout - that wouldn't happen if you couldn't save anywhere, anytime, although games like Fallout kind of have to allow that.
Save points avoid all of these pitfalls so they're fine by me. What people who claim they make it unduly difficult and awkward to leave the game without losing progress always fail to mention is that suspend saves exist.
With a system like that in place, you can save and quit anywhere, but can't savescum because the file is erased after being loaded - if you die or quit without saving again, then you go back to the last proper save at a save point.
So you can quit and continue at any time or place, but still suffer consequences for death and can't place checkpoints wherever you feel like it. Although of course, save anywhere isn't a problem if the game is intended to be more casual.
>>320941960
Save points are great at making the player feel tension. I like it when games, particularly survival horrors, Metroidvanias, and the Souls series, make you feel anxious as you search for that next save point, b/c you might be close to dying, you're dreading what comes next, you don't really want to put yourself in a shitty situation, like accidentally triggering the next boss fight or something, b/c you might die and lose all your progress.
Save points aren't even remotely outdated, and good placement of save points is an underrated piece of video game design.
It really depends on the game, there's no one ultimate solution.
But if we must talk in general I think the best system is to have dedicated savepoints that are infrequent but also allow you to buy an item that acts as a quicksave or teleports you to a nearby savepoint. For example a Goho-M from Persona 4.
>>320941960
I'd take a system that has you restart from death at a checkpoint but where you can only save at a save point. I think they are good for keeping tension up as you can get lost in a dungeon/haunted house and desperately seek the next save point.
