Dear /v/: your anti-censorship campaign is going absolutely nowhere as long as half of you are still bitching about normal-ass professional translations. I see people on here all the time trying to stir up outrage because dialogue has been made more conversational, or kanji puns being replaced with english jokes. This is not a problem. This is how all media is translated worldwide, from movie dubs to books. Literally nobody has a problem with it except angry otakus who are too lazy to learn japanese, but still want stiff literal translations with all the untranslatable concepts left intact and context-less.
You're missing the point entirely. Censorship is changing content to fit an agenda, and there's loads of fucking agendas out there being pandered to right now that don't involve text readability and the flow of the script. Censorship of art isn't as shitty as censorship of information, it's still a kick in the balls and it is happening all over the place, so please get angry at that and not at the fact that companies are trying to create text and dialogue that works in the english language.
Poeple call that shitty localization, not censorship. It's only censorship when the dialogue was obviously changed to be less offensive.
>>320721002
>Poeple call that shitty localization,
Pick your battles, this is why NoA made fun of you in animal crossing.
>>320721205
Nintendo is a shitty localizer. Of course they're going to be salty about being called out.
>>320720452
Being completely rewritten, with no relation at all to the original script, is a normal-ass professional translation?
I wonder how would their authors feel about their work getting bastardized like this.
>>320720452
That sounds like the stuff /a/ complains about.
We're complaining that they're removing boobs, boobs sliders, dating minigames and revealing costumes.
>>320721846
That sounds like the stuff /a/ complains about.
two sides of the same coin mate
>>320717683
>>320717683
>We're complaining that they're removing boobs, boobs sliders, dating minigames and revealing costumes.
Those are perfectly reasonable things to complain about
>>320720452
what are you trying to fight for?
>>320722261
>>320720452
/v/'s ability to influence places, as for most of this site in general, is pretty shit compared to a few years back, and even then it was low.
This is because raids are usually frowned upon, and attempts to actually do something usually end up getting backlash from most of the users here.
TL;DR
Change won't come from here.
>>320722863
The no-raids rule was enforced a long time ago
>>320720452
> I see people on here all the time trying to stir up outrage because dialogue has been made more conversational, or kanji puns being replaced with english jokes. This is not a problem. This is how all media is translated worldwide, from movie dubs to books.
If I wanted shitty Western memes I wouldn't play Jap games. Either translate it properly or don't bother at all.
>>320720452
>axed the MC for season two
>added a shitty new girl and the plot revolves around here
Why?
>>320721645
Do you think they fucking care that you retards got made fun of? everywhere else the joke was praised as funny (twitter, tumblr) and this hypocrite place got about 2000 replies total with all the threads they made
>>320721002
>go to subway
>order the meatball sub
>it usually comes with cheese
>ask the sandwich artist to hold the cheese
>he jumps on the counter and screams that you're censoring him
That's how retarded you sound like right now
>>320723235
>If I wanted shitty Western memes I wouldn't play Jap games. Either translate it properly or don't bother at all.
Translation isn't an exact fucking science. I know several Japanese translators and it's really a spectrum of "accuracy". They're constantly balancing being faithful to the original text and making it make sense in the language they're translating too.
It's really one of those things you need to know both languages to be able to criticize.
That may sound like a cop out, but people wildly underestimate how much work it is to translate something. It isn't enough to simply know both languages. Translation is a separate skill entirely.
>>320723592
I didn't know this post suddenly evolved into a copypasta
>>320723656
Adding memes is not the same as considering the difference in the word orders between two languages. Stop using this retarded argument.
>>320723656
Are you seriously implying again that we wouldn't know Japanese? This is fucking 2015, retard. Your 90's bullshit doesn't work anymore.
>>320723812
>considering the difference in word orders
That's a gross oversimplification
>Are you seriously implying again that we wouldn't know Japanese? This is fucking 2015, retard. Your 90's bullshit doesn't work anymore.
If you know Japanese, why the fuck are you playing the localized version?
>>320723592
>And then fucking everybody has to eat it like that because i dont like cheese!
>>320723926
>That's a gross oversimplifacation
No other arguments, eh? I am merely stating what is and isn't a part of the translating process. Adding dank memes is not part of the translation process, deciphering and converting word orders, is. I didn't fucking complain when I bought the English translation of Don Quixote because I know full well that it's a book made and set within the culture of medieval Spain, the same way nobody should be complaining about the english translation of a Japanese game because the game is made and (mostly) set within the culture of modern Japan.
>>320723926
Goddamned retardation. Americans. God forbid we know some degree of another language and culture.
>>320720452
Please faggot, great and faithful translations do exist, even for Japanese works.
Face it. Shitty meme localizers are trying to bump their paycheck by modifying things randomly, not because a faithful translation is impossible.
Fuck you.
>>320724196
>No other arguments, eh?
I've already made other arguments, you just chose to ignore them. You could give a work to 10 different translators and get 10 different translations. There isn't a canonical "correct" English version of a Japanese text.
>>320724215
As I said, it's a spectrum. Most of the complaints I see about translations are sperging out about specific lines of dialog or names.
As an example, I was helping one of my Japanese friends proofread a translation of a pamplet about a children's show. One of the adult characters in the show was described as a 不審者 in the original, which is most literally translated as a "suspicious person" This had to be changed because a "suspicious person" hanging out with a bunch of kids probably wouldn't fly with western audiences. Translators are constantly making judgement calls like this. With games, it can be even harder because things have to be internally consistent (items with the same names have to have the same translations etc) and sometimes there are technical constraints such as length of cutscenes. You can't always have a glossary or "translator notes" sections to explain obscure 2ch memes.
Frankly, I tend of favor more literal translations, but I'm probably in the minority.
>>320725280
You're trying to claim as if adding dank memes is part of the translation process.
>>320725280
Look here, everyone agrees that translation is not an exact science. Everyone knows already that word-per-word is impossible. The real argument here is shitty localization that turns rice-balls into hamburgers and adding shitty memes just to appeal to westerners. It's stripping off one of the main appeals of the game: being japanese, and replacing it with a half-assed westernization.
>>320725449
You're trying to claim as if "dank memes" are the only thing people complain about.As if japanese scripts don't have their own shitty referential humour as well
>>320725280
>Most of the complaints I see
Must be nice to have selective memory.
>Wouldn't fly with western audiences
As I have said. >>320724215
>>320725748
They do, and I admit that. If you're gonna buy a Japanese game, you have to deal with the Japanese referential humour, same thing if you want to slog through Don Quixote.
Christ, I can't even tell who's being serious in these discussions anymore and who's shitposting.
Its simple. SJWs cry to censor shit. We don't buy games. The SJWs as well do not buy games because they simply do not buy video games. Games that get shitty localisations flop and they get debunked/fired/cancelled. Its been happening for a while and it'll keep going
>>320725748
Anonymous 12/20/15(Sun)00:00:55 No.320725748 ▶>>320725848
>>320725449
>As if japanese scripts don't have their own shitty referential humour as well
Yes and they get replaced with dank memes that completely misses the joke.
>>320725748
only /a/ complains about the translation of their animations
/v/ mainly complains about shit like Esty Dee and "eat your hamburgers, apollo"
>>320724215
>>320725820
This line of rhetoric is insane. Games are mass market products, they sell millions, more often than not to children. You cannot expect to be able to rely on the mass market's knowledge of another culture, because maybe 1% at best will. This is the whole reason they change games and scripts, so they can be fully understood by people with no knowledge of the original language or culture. If it doesn't make sense to an 8 year old american, you have already failed.
>>320726034
Are you reading this thread nigga?
>>320726142
yes, and >>320723235 makes a good point. Apparently >>320723656 confuses translation with localization and assumes that >>320723235 was talking about a word-per-word conversion.
>>320726075
>If it doesn't make sense to an 8 year old American, you have already failed.
Now I'm convinced that you're insane.
>>320725449
Not really, just that changing a joke or expression so that a translation flows better or fits the constraints of the project sometimes is necessary. Sometimes games go overboard with them, but it isn't an exact science. Claiming there is a "correct" way to translate something is simply the wrong way to think about things out side of extremely specific types of works such as legal documents and technical manuals.
I can't really speak to that because all the professional translators I know mostly work on things like promotional materials, emails, and fiction stuff. Legal and technical translations are pretty specialized.
>>320725820
>As I have said. >>320724215
I gave a fucking example of where a translator had to make a judgement call because the direct translation would have entirely different connotations in English, altering the meaning of the work. The original Japanese was aiming for a "mad scientist" vibe, but the direct translation read more like "child molestor".
>>320725731
>shitty localization that turns rice-balls into hamburgers and adding shitty memes just to appeal to westerners.
I think that's a bit of a strawman, I don't see many rice ball shaped hamburgers rolling down hills in games. I've already explained the meme thing.
>>320726413
>more like "child molestor"
Forgive me that I don't have reactionary images as I'm on my tablet.
>>320726413
nice of you to omit the Esty Dee part.
>I don't see many rice ball shaped hamburgers rolling down hills in games
Now you've just outed yourself as someone who doesn't play these games in the first place because these are the things that /v/ complains about in the first place. Everyone already knows that translating isn't an exact science.
>Not really, just that changing a joke or expression so that a translation flows better or fits the constraints of the project sometimes is necessary.
What if there wasn't supposed to be a joke in the first place? Are you okay with that?
>>320726396
I'm not even exaggerating. Consider Yokai Watch, for instance, and the sea of changes they had to make for a game based on japanese folklore to make sense to american kids. That was utterly necessary.
Naturally you don't have to target children when translating a game intended for adults, but you still can't rely on japanese cultural knowledge to communicate the intention of the script in english. You just can't, not in a market like this.
>>320726742
> you still can't rely on japanese cultural knowledge to communicate the intention of the script in english
That would be true if the entire script was rife with idioms and sayings. Sadly, this isn't the case in most imported media
I studied Japanese for last 5 years and now live in Japan.
Why don't you do the same?
>professional translations
Here is your problem OP
if it was just censorship some people could deal with it.
But since everything is pure garbage and said "professional" translator keep making everything worse there is nothing left but say how everything is shit.
>>320726714
>Now you've just outed yourself as someone who doesn't play these games in the first place because these are the things that /v/ complains about in the first place. Everyone already knows that translating isn't an exact science.
Well, I do. Idk how I can prove that to you, but whatever. I see /v/ complain about translations all the time and while there are few hamburger/riceball things, most of them seem to be bitching about things like character names or specific lines of dialog that they think are translated incorrectly. Usually trivial things.
One "rice ball moment" that bothered me a bit, but was probably justified was changing a bar near the beginning of Grandia to a coffee place. It was a minor change to a very small piece of the game that probably kept the game from getting a "T" rating. I suspect it's the kind of thing /v/ would sperg out about.
>What if there wasn't supposed to be a joke in the first place? Are you okay with that?
It depends. Would it be ok to remove a Japanese joke that doesn't make any sense in English?
What if one of the character's traits was that they were funny and made lots of puns. Would it be ok to add English puns at different (but relevant) parts of the dialog to maintain that it's a funny character?
It's highly context dependent.
>>320727926
>specific lines of dialog that they think are translated incorrectly
I don't know what board you got that from but I'm pretty sure it's not /v/.
>>320727926
>It depends. Would it be ok to remove a Japanese joke that doesn't make any sense in English?
>What if one of the character's traits was that they were funny and made lots of puns. Would it be ok to add English puns at different (but relevant) parts of the dialog to maintain that it's a funny character?
>It's highly context dependent.
If it wasn't meant to be funny in the first place, no attempt should be made to make it humorous because it would feel forced and be shit. Another way the localization jokes would become shit is if they went the lazy route and just incorporated dank memes into it, I'm pretty sure nobody would complain if the new joke was still as funny as the original one while still being as close as possible. The bottom line is, if it's completely far off and unrelated from the original, it's shit.
>>320728547
>The bottom line is, if it's completely far off and unrelated from the original, it's shit.
Thoughts?
>>320728547
>If it wasn't meant to be funny in the first place, no attempt should be made to make it humorous because it would feel forced and be shit. Another way the localization jokes would become shit is if they went the lazy route and just incorporated dank memes into it, I'm pretty sure nobody would complain if the new joke was still as funny as the original one while still being as close as possible. The bottom line is, if it's completely far off and unrelated from the original, it's shit.
Of course I agree with that, but I don't think you're seeing the full picture. I suspect the vast majority of translators are trying to capture the original feel of the dialog, and aren't just adding, changing, or removing things just so they can masturbate at their own joke writing skills.
Consider something like a cutscene. You have a movie file that's 1 minute long. You've translated the original, and on the first pass you only have 33 seconds of dialog, or maybe the character in the cutscene has 5 lines of dialog in the original, but the translation is only 3 lines. You can either edit the cutscene (may be impossible depending on how it was delivered to you), pad the dialog the best you can, or try to work the translation again so it fits in the allotted time. The best choice depends on the situation. Sometimes it can make the dialog sound less awkward if you pad the dialog out a little rather than doing an overly verbose alternate translation. Sometimes it doesn't.
Maybe the translation of a spell or item name doesn't physically fit in a text box in the UI (less of a problem these days). How would you approach that? Abbreviate words? Change the description altogether? Keep in mind that the terminology used has to be internally consistent.
Either some localization company is super butthurt and spamming /v/ right now, or they hired shills to try and change public opinion.
STOP CENSORING LOLIS
STOP ADDING YOUR OWN UNFUNNY FUCKING JOKES
STOP INSERTING YOUR CANCEROUS MARXIST AGENDA INTO GAMES
IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE GAME, DON'T WORK ON IT. IT SHOULD BE A LABOR OF LOVE
I want my localizations of shit that very explicitly occurs in Japan to be like Persona localizations.
I don't care if that makes me a weeb autist or whatever other hot air nonsense. It's the least amount of bologna
>>320729931
I would cut it out and add my own original writing.
-Vic Ireland
>>320731539
>that top row
Always makes me jealous the Japanese can say such long things in such a short amount of hiragana characters on Twitter.
