>This game hasn't aged well.
>it was good for its time but...
>>320699041
>posts a pic from a show that hasn't aged well
>>320699041
Never understood this
If it was playable in 1990, it's playable now.
>It gets better 10 hours in
>It's a good game, but not a good X game
This IS the bait thread, right? Where we post legitimate complaints?
>>320699041
Perfectly valid criticism for graphics, but anything else and it's just dogshit.
>dated gameplay
>>320699223
Not when there's new, better things to play.
>>320699232
This shit grinds my gears. I'm not going to sit through the equivalent of an extended edition LOTR marathon that I don't even enjoy just for the POSSIBILITY that I'll start to like the game.
>>320699376
Explain how new=better. Because frankly given the state of games today the opposite seems to be true.
>>320699323
>Perfectly valid criticism for graphics
No it isn't. Things that looked good a few decades ago still look good. If they don't look good today, then they never looked good to begin with. You were just impressed by the novelty of seeing something new, but the truth is that it always looked like ass. Graphics don't age, and games do not age.
>>320699041
There are a few games that really haven't aged well, but I think of the time it's said the person is probably wrong.
>>320699376
>new
>better
Most new games are dumbed down garbage. The only genre with integrity was fighting games. But even those are getting dumbed down nowadays.
>>320699232
This was an argument used for FFXIII when that came out. All the squeenix fanboys talked about how great it got 20 hours in. Ridiculous.
>Game is entry in established series "X"
>"It's a good game, just not a good X game"
>>320699580
>dumbed down
They're getting streamlined, you fucking idiot. What exactly is wrong with games becoming more approachable?
>>320699041
>automatically saves
>>320699496
>You were just impressed by the novelty of seeing something new, but the truth is that it always looked like ass. Graphics don't age, and games do not age.
I'm a little drunk and I might be falling for some sweet words here, but actually that is a pretty good point.
I just think of a lot of earlier 3D games and think how awful it looked. In some cases it was also awful at the time. I guess you're right.
>>320699251
>>320699678
This is a valid criticism you fucking subhumans.
Timelessness is an actual quality, you know. In particular, action-oriented games from around the N64/PS1 era tend to suffer a lot, compared to SNES-era games of just about any genre. It's not just about graphics, there's simply an obvious transition period and many games that were perfectly playable back then just don't stand the test of time.
>>320699701
Why not streamline further and remove the need to press buttons? Controllers are intimidating to some people, it would make games more approachable
>>320699376
LOL
>>320699202
But Patrick Stewart has, incredibly so.
>>320699376
But if a game was good when it came it is more then likely to be good today. What your saying basically makes it sound like anything not modern is garbage, which is definitely wrong. Only stuff from 3rd gen and earlier or early rpgs are not worth playing today.
It's an extremely valid criticism in the case of technology-dependent video games.
>>320699438
Better controls
Better visuals
Better audio
Better gameplay
Go ahead and play a recent FPS then try playing Goldeneye 007 again
>>320699701
>changing the word being used to a less negative sounding synonym will change everything and make me not wrong
nope.
>>320699041
>>320699251
>>320699370
>>320699678
all those are legitimate true statements
>>320699863
>the Wii actually tried this, the absolute madman
>>320699969
You best not be shitting on Robotron 2084.
>>320700031
A game "aging" and "dated" controls are not. A game released 20 years ago is the same now as it was 20 years ago. The game didn't become shit, players did due to their inability to adapt.
>>320699969
>But if a game was good when it came it is more then likely to be good today
No its not you retard, people get better standards and expectations over time, you think old brink phones are acceptable now?
>It aged like shit
>they never articulate the reasons for why it is so, only make the statement
>>320699041
That's a valid complaint though.
>>320699701
>defending publishers treating gamers like they're somehow dumber than they were 15 years ago
>>320699981
>Goldeneye 007
It's a legit better designed game that 99% of modern FPS and has better gameplay.
If you can't adapt to old controls you're a casual.
If you can't adapt to old graphics you're a graphics whore
If you can't adapt to old audio you're a shitty audiophile.
>>320699202
Untrue, I'm watching it for the first time and it's great
>the Skin of Evil eulogy
>Measure of a Man
>Riker being Riker
>>320700105
>underage
>>320700105
Players did adept, to newer and better controls and then realized that the old method was terrible
>>320700105
why wouldn't concepts age and controls become dated? We aren't using oscilloscopes to control our characters any more and being able to save games is no longer a novelty.
>>320699910
I can't believe the guy is 75 years old. He looks damn good.
>>320700105
This.
People just aren't willing to learn how to play a game anymore.
If a control scheme or camera works differently than someone is used to, it doesn't matter how perfectly it suits the game, it's shit to them, because they'd actually have to spend some time learning something different.
>>320700217
>It's a legit better designed game that 99% of modern FPS and has better gameplay.
Nostalgia fag everyone
>>320700105
Yeah buddy, let's adapt to remote controllers and spindials.
>>320699820
This.
Games that tried to do realistic graphics on the N64, PS1 really look dated. Especially if they didn't look great then. Games with a stylized art still look fine though.
Good looking sprite games from the NES/SNES generally have a timeless appeal to them, but the Atari that took some.. imagination..the graphics are difficult to get around.
>>320700217
Truth. I don't know if Dreamcast is considered "old" but I got one the other day and fired up Maken X. Took me maybe 15 minutes to get used to the controls, and the old CRT I was playing on made the graphics look perfectly fine.
>>320700109
>people get better standards and expectations over time
Actually they get lower standards. Have you seen the shit coming out these days?
>>320700312
Alright, you can enjoy your linear corridor shooters
I'll be enjoying my open-ended missions.
>>320700105
Nobody is arguing that any game litteraly went through metamorphosis. That's not what ageing well means when talking about technology.
>>320699041
Witcher 1
Surely fun at release, try to play it right now, you wont
I hate that shit as well, OP. It's basically saying "I'm a retarded fucking pleb who cares too much about graphics"
Another criticism I hate is the word "generic." Seriously, if you EVER use that word on /v/ to criticize a game, please kill yourself fucking immediately. It means literally NOTHING in this context, and is just used by idiots as a way to attack a game while trying to sound smart. Fuck off.
>>320699981
I never liked goldeneye. Overrated as fuck.
>>320699981
>best console multiplayer
>second only to perfect dark
>nothing in today's market even comes close
>>320699376
Fucking newfags man...
>>320700105
>The game didn't become shit, players did due to their inability to adapt.
wrong, the difference is players have different experience and have different expectations
people now are assumed to know different things as a given than they were 20 years ago
a game that has stood the test of time is one which does not rely on the player to have such knowledge or one where such knowledge is learned naturally at no cost to the players experience (and even to it's benefit)
>>320700387
Just because we have lower standards today doesn't mean we didn't have far better standards in 1996-2012.
>>320700435I did and liked it better than 2
>>320700387
Better than some garbage back then, yet you probably only remember the good stuff like your brain wants you to
Remember how good Daikatana was?
>>320700110
Being articulate is autistic, you know. Why communicate your reasoning when you can simply assert something?
>>320700435
Replayed it last year and had fun with, sorry pleb.
>>320700105
No.
Try playing Deus Ex with the current control scheme. I dare you.
>>320700446
You probably never tried it on 00 Agent. Or you did, and got your ass kicked.
>>320700105
this desu baka senpai
>>320700217
It wasn't even a very good FPS in its day, don't lie. The genre has been shit practically since day 1.
>>320700458
Fucking CoD is 10x better and runs at a 10x better framerate
>>320699820
>many games that were perfectly playable back then just don't stand the test of time
They were as playable back then as they are now.
The games didn't change, only the players did. It's a meaningless statement because it's so tied to subjectivity. It's like saying a game is a 10/10 masterpiece because it's "fun," and leaving it at that.
>>320700217
>muh ameribaby nostalgia: the post
>stop using common phrases that usually describes a situation in a simple way that most people understand
Fuck you faggots.
>>320700435
But it's the most enjoyable one in the series.
>>320700501
Look at what games came out in 1998 or 2004, then compare it to today.
You're kidding yourself if you don't think things have gotten worse.
>>320700435
witcher 1 is perfectly enjoyable
PAT get off
It's a completely valid complaint unless it targets something obviously retarded like graphics or lack of voice acting.
>>320700387
Some of the worst video games today is better than 95 percent of vidya from 30 years ago.
>>320699232
>ff13
>"it gets good 20 hours in on gran pulse!"
>get to gran pulse
>it's a shittier version of guar plains from xenoblade, the first major area
What a load of shit. At least with MH the shitty first 10 hours is needed to teach new players the mechanics and results in hundreds of hours of fun
>>320700109
Technology like phones are different. Something as simple as the nes still has amazing games today. I agree that standards change as time goes on but if a game was acceptable then then it's probably acceptable now. Like my example early rpgs are too primitive for people to enjoy today. This is one of the few examples of a game not being good because it didn't age well.
>>320700672
You're right, my cynical jaded brain forbids me from thinking otherwise
>>320700217
>It's a legit better designed game that 99% of modern FPS and has better gameplay
Ok now you're just being ridiculous
>>320700597
>underageb& just turned 18: the post
>>320700217
Prefect Dark is a better example of a game that aged well.
>>320700747
>ff13
>"it gets good 20 hours in on gran pulse!"
Nope, sorry, FFXIII is a great game from beginning to end. Someone lied to you.
>>320700741I disagree.
>It's ok if you like it.
>>320700238
>>320700462
>Galaga was good twenty years ago but not in the present.
If a game was good once it will be good forever, everything else is the weird internet need to keep things in motion.
>>320700097
I meant most stuff from that period, I enjoy playing berzerk and donkey kong more then certain modern games.
>>320700787
I hate Elsa posters.
>>320700501
Past had much higher highs and much lowers lows because it was a much more experimental time, necessarily so with the move to 3D in particular.
Now most everything is reboots, remakes, samey AAA drivel, and samey indie drivel.
You're less likely to find downright fucking terrible games, but you're also less likely to find groundbreaking, unique, or truly excellent games.
>>320700471
>1996-2012
If you legitimately think that the PS2 wasn't the herald to the casualization of gaming you are probably underage and need to leave. 2012 we were already in full bullshit mode, I mean look at BF3 and Skyrim.
>>320700838
I think you're lying to yourself. If they changed the majority of the characters to not be annoying pricks and you started off halfway into the game, it'd be good.
>>320700747
>At least with MH the shitty first 10 hours is needed to teach new players the mechanics and results in hundreds of hours of fun
>do an entire mission just to learn to to pick fucking mushrooms
Does it get better in the later games or something?
The tutorials in Unite were so boring I've never once been able to get past them.
>>320699981
whoops
>>320700928
>I think you're lying to yourself
Yeah, totally, because nobody can EVER have an opinion that is different from yours, right?
You are a cancer on this earth and I hope you get exterminated. Please end your life, you pathetic piece of shit.
>>320700672
You have to realize how different the markets are now. You can't have 3-4 people coding a shovelware game and push it out the door in a few months anymore. You think superman 64 would release right now and do well?
Companies pumped out games like crazy in the early 2000s. The video game market has gotten pretty expensive to get a foot hold in now and has slowed down a lot of progress.
>>320700921
Yeah the NES had such complex games like how you had to press A to jump and move with a dpad
So hardcore :0
>>320700838
Considering I played the game start to finish waiting for it to get good, it's garbage throughout
>>320700921
Oh come on, Skyrim wasn't so bad.
>>320700860
>If a game was good once it will be good forever, everything else is the weird internet need to keep things in motion.
Is the Illiad as good as it was or has the context changed to the point where we see it as good for other reasons?
The game has not changed, people have, that's what people talk about when they talk about the "aging" of a game.
>>320700741
Objectively wrong. It says a lot that shovelware of the good old days had the chance to be good.
>>320700894
Let it go.
>>320700958
Do you actually think the game will be about mushroom picking? You get a farm so you don't even have to do that on the side, it'll be automatic
>>320700917
Pretty much this. People weren't as afraid to experiment, and that's why so many classics were produced. Now we get overrated trash like the last of us and bioshock infinite as examples of daring and experimental games.
>>320701036
Go play Contra you underage faggot. No using the Konami Code
>>320701008
>Yeah, totally, because nobody can EVER have an opinion that is different from yours, right?
You contradict yourself
>>320700741
>oregon trail
>gobins n ghosts
>gauntlet
>super mario bros
it's goddamn shameful that 30 year old games demand more skill and have more depth then something released today
>/v/ arguing over semantics
Is there a more depressing thing?
It's borderline youtube comment field depressing.
>>320701067
Nah he is right faggot, and you saying good old days makes you a nostalgia faggot
>>320700503
This. Actually backing yourself up will only make people roll their eyes.
>>320699041
Yeah, compatibility is a bitch.
>>320701004
Whenever anybody says Nightfire was better than Goldeneye, you can really just tell how underage and/or casual they are.
Nightfire is just an early example of a linear corridor shooter. Just a theme park ride with a few gadgets and gimmicks here and there to keep the ape-like audience amused.
>>320699202
Season 2 onward is still great. Watched several episodes for the first time and thought they were all great.
>>320700595
>removing the context of players
Why would you do this? Of course people are what have changed.
So what?
There are games that I love, that I still love and would play, but I wouldn't recommend to any friend that hasn't played them before.
Why?
Because they won't have the context I did. They won't get as much out of it, if anything at all. It won't be as amazing or mindblowing. That's the definition of being dated.
>>320700838
I honestly think anyone who likes 13 is a contrarian
The easiest way to judge a game's "age" is too look at it's mechanics in comparison to modern gamed influenced by it. I think the easiest to use example would be RE4. RE4 made the over-the-shoulder tps, especially with QTE's, popular. Many games copied that scheme but almost none did it as well. I think the closest is Dead Space, a fantastic game that built off RE4 but still does not surpass.
A game aging poorly is the opposite, where it's mechanics and core gameplay was improved upon and surpassed by later games to a point where playing the older game is just a dumbed-down version of the more expanded upon games
>>320701091
No. That's why I think it's retarded forcing me to spend like 10 minutes playing a mission where the sole goal is to pick up mushrooms it when they might as well just have a "press X to pick up mushrooms" prompt.
>>320701057
>The game has not changed, people have, that's what people talk about when they talk about the "aging" of a game.
Yet, when the opportunity comes to discuss the topic the focus is everywhere except where it should be.
>>320701143
>Oregon trail
>depth and skill
I mean. Come on now. That's pushing it. Oregon Trail is about as basic as it gets.
>>320700860
I can understand people thinking a game was good and later realizing that it wasn't.
Something like a Sonic Adventure that at the time impressed with 6th gen visuals, 6 different stories with characters that played differently, multiple hub worlds, etc. could easily have people missing or excusing the blatant flaws everywhere.
What I don't understand is saying that the game aged rather than that the game is shit.
It strikes me as a sad attempt to reconcile having liked the game in the past with now realizing that it's shit.
Instead of recognizing your error in liking the game previously, you insist that it just aged poorly, so both past and present you are correct.
>>320701221
my condolences for playing the pc version
>>320701278
>A game aging poorly is the opposite, where it's mechanics and core gameplay was improved upon and surpassed by later games to a point where playing the older game is just a dumbed-down version of the more expanded upon games
Which is why it's particularly idiotic that people use Goldeneye as an example of an aged game.
The game's particular type of FPS mechanics literally have not been expanded on since the Timesplitters series died. It's absolutely nothing like CoD, Halo, Doom or Quake.
>>320700838
I know you're trolling, but there are actually people out there who believe this.
>>320701258
So you're a fucking autistic retard then who can't comprehend the notion that some people will disagree with you on things.
Why the fuck is gaming so full of idiots like you these days? Do vidya games cause autism? I think we seriously need to do some research to determine this, because the video gaming community is the most autistic, cancerous piece of shit on the face of the earth
Kill yourself.
Being dated = you can't give it to a kid today and expect the kid to like it.
>>320701294
MH has a lot of mechanics you have to keep in mind at all time
>>320701221
You mean as opposed to the exhilarating, hardcore "walk forward, hold fire button" gameplay of Goldeneye?
>>320701164
Compelling argument fellow redditor.
Those were good old days because it was the golden age of gaming. Release you instagram piss filter mousechildren
>>320701008
Holy shit, so much mad.
>>320700510
You dont? There is literally nothing wrong with Deus Ex's controls.
>>320701403
>I know you're trolling
YOU
KILL YOURSELF RIGHT NOW. I DON'T FUCKING CARE HOW. USE A BUTTER KNIFE IF YOU HAVE TO, JUST END YOUR PATHETIC AUTISTIC FUCKING LIFE.
>>320701404
Bad taste exists despite subjectivity
>>320700458
I've been playing games longer than you and I know this isn't true, there are more games out there than you will ever know about. There are multiplayer shooters that are far better in many respects than perfect dark and golden-eye.
>>320701406
Then how about it stops treating me like a retarded kid?
Pressing the action button to pick up some mushrooms isn't exactly rocket science in terms of game design.
>>320700435
I played it because w3 was about to come out and it was fantastic
>>320701407
>hardcore "walk forward, hold fire button" gameplay of Goldeneye?
Wahahaha. Like a literal anti-Goldeneye shitposter caricature. I guess you only ever played it on Agent mode (easiest setting).
Goldeneye was the first FPS to have actual stealth mechanics, and you need to stay quiet to survive levels like Bunker 2 on 00 Agent.
>>320701383
>it's particularly idiotic that people use Goldeneye as an example of an aged game
>The game's particular type of FPS mechanics literally have not been expanded on since the Timesplitters series
>>320701008
>>320701404
>>320701472
>typical square enix fanboy
Do I have to feel guilty when I think the framerate on goldeneye is limited?
Fuck off.
I feel like we place the training wheels on games because we suddenly are the developers, or not.
It's not fair to say anything.
Many games have not aged well because we can do better.
Saying we can't is like saying we've given up. That's fucking sad, and I won't do that.
>>320701114
>Contra
>Not even 3 or Hard Corps
Original guy you replied to
Fuck off son.
>>320701352
>Defending the game makes you a nostalgiafag.
>Throwing shit turns you a newfag.
Internet was a mistake. I hate this kind of thing.
>>320701254
>So what?
So, I'm not interested in discussing players when talking about the quality of a game, unless it's a multiplayer game being discussed. That shit has no bearing on the quality of a game.
What the fuck do I care what the majority of modern gamers have to say about how a game like System Shock looks and controls when I played it for the first time two years ago and had no issue?
Fuck players.
>>320700157
>defending publishers treating gamers like they're somehow dumber than they were 15 years ago
Gamers are literally dumber, because of the influx of "gamers" who only align with the term to hide the fact that they are fucking husks of people with no concept on how to define themselves as an individual.
>>320701549
They barely changed the mechanics in Timesplitters
>>320701442
Alright how about you go play Evolve which is considered bad for modern
Then go play Rascal on PS1
>>320701557
>square enix fanboy
Not even close. I stopped liking Final Fantasy when I realized FFX was a piece of shit and they followed it up with FFXI, which wasn't even a real FF game.
I still haven't played FFXII.
I will never play FFXIV.
I like FFXIII because I think it's a great game. It's as simple as that. I am hardly a fanboy. I have been critical of the direction Final Fantasy has taken for like 10 years now, but that doesn't mean I can't admit it when they make a great game like XIII.
>>320701590
I like Contra 1 more than 3.
I want to get into FF7. I really do. I'm just sick of random encounters as a whole, and some of the backgrounds hide things I'm supposed to see.
It doesn't help that the remake is taking away the turn based combat, even if I hate the ATB system.
>>320701590
>man says NES games aren't hardcore because few buttons
>he should have mentioned Contra games with more buttons not on the NES to prove him wrong
Uhhh...
>>320701747
>FFXIII
>great game
Okay bro, you just tell yourself that if it helps you sleep at night.
>>320701529
It's part of the game's atmosphere. It doesn't make sense starting out but that becomes surprisingly enjoyable later on when you have to keep in mind all sorts of different goals and mechanics at the same time. They're trying to frontload you with information about the loot tables in the starting area and get you enough materials to rely on for the first major chunk of the game. A big part of Monster Hunter is juggling consumable items and learning about the different hunting grounds. It doesn't last as long as you think, and there's generally a new mechanic introduced in every quest during the "tutorial" phase, just to get new players up to speed. They will teach you practically everything you need to know, they're just putting you through the paces.
As soon as the first major fight hits you will be expected to have supplies, knowledge of the environment, equipment, and an understanding of the camera and controls so that you don't get completely curbstomped by the first really dangerous enemy. Once you hit roughly Kut-ku/Qurupeco the game just totally drops you and you will be really glad you understand what to do.
>>320701747
It was shit man. The characters were boring. The gameplay was awful. The only thing decent were the graphics but thats expected from SE.
>>320701805
Okay, Captain Autismo, I want to see you say "I acknowledge that some people will have a different opinion on things than me. My opinion is not the objective truth, and that's okay!"
Fucking say it, you autist. Say that shit right now or kill yourself. Those are your only two options.
>>320701747
What exactly do you like so much about FFXIII? Is it the unlikable characters, the awful story, the linear level design, the braindead gameplay, or some combination of these things?
>>320701851
See >>320701879
This applies to you, too.
I am expecting both of you to say that in a post RIGHT NOW or promptly end your own life. Preferably violently.
>>320701841
Guess I just prefer to figure stuff out on my own rather than spending hours slowly learning about it.
When they say a game hasn't aged well, it means it does not live up to the nostalgia and expectations of past and present generations of gamers. For instance, Fallout 1 was good but for a new arrival, it hasn't aged well. Metal Gear Solid was phenomenal but when you play the future installments and try to go back, it's age shows in all the design and controls. Games technically do keep the same ability to entertain as they once did but in the same way a typewriter does it's original function as well as it could way back when. Still probably fun but there are alternatives now.
>>320700235
Oh man, you're just scratching the surface then. Lucky.
>>320700921
>If you legitimately think that the PS2 wasn't the herald to the casualization of gaming you are probably underage and need to leave.
It was the herald of casualization, but it was also the last bastion of really decent console games coming out. Especially with some of the more niche jrpg titles, not to mention devs at that time were still at that point trying new things because the booming AA games market allowed them to fail on a smaller scale and learn from their mistakes.
>>320701879
>So what if I enjoy eating shit?! Taste is subjective, fuck you!!
>>320701929
When do you say "I eat shit"?
>>320701929
It was a shit game. You have shit opinions you retard. There is literally no refuting this.
>>320701904
The characters grew on me as I progressed through the story, I found the story itself interesting and the world fascinating & beautiful. I think it's a unique game that deserves recognition for the things it does well, most notably the fact that it perfected the feeling of being "on the run" and in over your head. The game is much better than people give it credit for.
>>320701945
They're not telling you everything, you're expected to use the stuff gathered from those early quests to experiment. Those quests are very straightforward because they are trying to get you into the swing of things as comfortably as possible, and you get a nice cushion to fall back on if you can't beat the first few monsters.
>>320701472
>USE A BUTTER KNIFE IF YOU HAVE TO
What is he going to do, spread himself to death?
>>320702020
Still doesn't help it from being a painfully tedious boring sludge though.
>>320701973
>>320701976
>>320701990
I feel really bad for your mom & dad. I bet they cry themselves to sleep at night over their failure of an autistic NEET obese piece of shit son.
>>320699202
wrong
>>320702013
All the characters were either incredibly shallow or outright contemptible, how the fuck did they grow on you?
>>320699223
Try playing early polygon graphic games or RTS games when they first switched to 3D.
Looks like absolutely dog shit and you can barely even recognize what the fuck anything is.
>Those people who'll claim "I like it because of my nostalgia goggle :3"
>Mfw I'm 30 years old and can't stand any game from the PS1/N64 era anymore because of how they look
>>320701959
You cannot compare media to utilitarian objects.
The performance of a typewriter can be MEASURABLY better or worse than some alternative.
You cannot say the same for a video game.
By what metric does Call of Duty 4 provide more or less fun than Doom? How do you measure anything here and say one is definitely better than the other?
I hate ps1/n64 era graphics. Everything after that is good enough and everything before that is abstract enough.
>>320701004
>castle/mansion map with the ski lift thing
>all bots set to vengeful and full aggressiveness
>all against you
So many hours lost to this game. Still load up my PS2 and play when my cousin comes over to reminisce.
>>320702165
They were ugly even at the time.
I took shelter in a cave filled with 2D Japanese Saturn games.
>>320702165
Oh no. How will I ever play this still adored game with completely functional graphics.
>>320701879
You do realize that objectivity is a thing right? Like you can't just say everything is subjective and just leave it at that. You can enjoy media of objectively lesser quality for subjective reasons but this is called a guilty pleasure. It's guilty because you know the source material is of poor quality but you still derive pleasure from it.
>>320702165
Not the guy you replied to, but I like low-poly graphics, and it's not even something I grew up with.
>>320701959
>Fallout 1 was good but for a new arrival, it hasn't aged well
Bullshit. I played it for the first time a few months ago, it was the first Fallout game I ever played, and it was great.
>Metal Gear Solid was phenomenal but when you play the future installments and try to go back, it's age shows in all the design and controls
I played Metal Gear Solid 1 to prepare for MGS4 back in 2008 and I loved it. I seriously don't understand people who use this aging argument, it just seems closed minded or shallow to me.
>>320702382
>sub-20 framerates
It's OK when Nintendo does it.
>>320702220
>You cannot say the same for a video game.
graphics are OBJECTIVELY better now
games have more mechanics than before on average
sound and music is also very high quality and production in modern games
UI is much better on avarage
the whole package is often crap or bland but the production value is visible
>>320702234
>I hate ps1/n64 era graphics
I guarantee that when people say "I hate PS1/N64 graphics" what they really mean is "I hate PS1/N64 graphics as rendered by shitty emulators"
I've got a CRT, an N64 and PS1, and it all looks perfectly fine to me.
>>320702357
You're a dumbass. There is no "objectively good" or "objectively bad" VIDEO GAME. Different people like different things, period, end of discussion. Why do you morons not understand this basic concept?
Here's the fact of the matter. The world is generally more grey than it is black-and-white, and gaming is certainly no exception to that. I fucking hate people like you who can't look beyond your own experiences and preferences. Somebody should have told you "no" growing up. Kill yourself.
>>320700435
i played 1, 2, and 3 back to back and 1 is totally fine. it certainly doesnt have 3's production values though.
>>320702442
>tfw I want to replay Ocarina of time
>can't because of the disgusting frame rate
>>320702165
>>320702349
>mfw I'm watching some gook WC3 tourney right now
>>320702165
Some early poly games like Virtua racing or Starfox still work alright.
AM2 games like Daytona USA, Virtua Fighter, or Virtua cop still look alright too.
>>320702165
>Mfw I'm 30 years old and can't stand any game from the PS1/N64 era anymore because of how they look
Sucks for you, that was objectively the best era of gaming.
>>320702220
Since games are subjective, there would be no real objective way to measure it but if you were to put two games in a vacuum and review and them based on a set of criteria discounting any nostalgia or appeal to novelty then you might have something.
>>320702436
People like to pretend that games can't be judged objectively. That way no one will be able to say they have shit taste,
>>320702502
Literally graphic whore
OoT reads inputs at 60fps so you can't use responsiveness as an excuse
Silent Hill 1 looks great to this day.
>>320702479
No. I still have my old consoles and an old tv too.
When ever I try to get back to those I turn them off after 20 minutes. It's just the awkward middle ground between realistic graphics and sprites
>>320702442
People didn't really care as much about framerate back then. It was only fighting or racing games that required higher framerate, nothing like now how people on r/pcmasterrace shit themselves if a game which doesn't need high framerate doesn't allow for 144 fps.
>>320701221
theyre both good, night fire was better and more fun, for obvious reasons.
>muh nostalgia
kill yourself retard
>>320701519
>never gave age
>I've been playing games longer than you and I know this isn't true
How much of a raging autist does someone have to be to have such a leap in logic.
>>320702443
I do not agree with any of those statements aside from graphics (and even then art style is a million times more important).
All of things have greater potential to be good with the better technology available today, but this potential being realized is a whole 'nother matter entirely.
>>320702609
What makes an objectively good game then?
>>320702436
How many games like the first Fallout do you play and how often? And if you had not played the future installments beforehand then i would say of course you don't have the bias.
>>320702479
>people constantly saying this
>get suckered in
>plug in my PS1 in my old CRT TV
>game looks almost exactly the same as on a emulator running in native res
>can still see stuff like the dithering effects clear as day
Do people just use TV's from the 70's or something?
>>320702534
Suggest some meaningful objective criteria by which to compare CoD4 to Doom.
>>320701626
System Shock 2 aged well, though. It's shit like Ocarina of Time, Super Mario 64 and early PS1 games that tend to be the ones that age the worst.
Also, shit like Loderunner.
>>320702678
If I like it, then it's objectively good.
>>320702719
>dissing 70s TVs
>>320702619
I'll take it. I can easily do 30 fps. Even on PC. But 20 is just way over the limit. Anything lower than 30 is just to eye bleeding. It's a fucking lower frame rate than even movies for god sakes.
>>320702742
>System Shock 2 aged well, though
LOL
unplayable without mods
>>320702742
I'm talking about the first System Shock.
>>320699041
What is wrong with this statement?
Many of the very early 3D games have definitely not aged well, unlike many later 2D games which are timeless.
Look at a game like the first 3D Bubsy. Back then a few people might have found it tolerable because "wow 3D" but it's a fucking nightmare to play now.
>>320700830
PD had better options and shit, it was like a GE mod.
my take on this, most of us "older gamers" 25+ grew up with this shit, saw it evolve and got to experience it all first hand. i believe that is the biggest asset we have to saying "this is why this old game is good".
i mean, i can still boot up Blood or Monkey Island 2 and enjoy the games. sure i grew up with them and i can see that people might think they have aged, but i want them to see the absolute SHIT that exists today compared to back then. devs could take risks without getting shut down because their game didn't sell 1 million copies at the least.
i mean, would you rather play a good AAA title from the golden era of gaming or a good AAA title from 2015?
>>320702732
>Graphics
>Sound
>Controls
>Replayability
Things of that nature. And i say graphics because it has to be mentioned if we are comparing games of any generation.
>>320702829
Oh, yeah. That aged bad.
>>320702836
You're a fag if you think tenchu, gears, or many other psx titles arent timeless
>>320702836
uh no.
NO ONE thought bubsy 3D was good back in 1996 when fucking Mario 64 was launched that same fucking year and is pretty much THE 3D game as to how to do it right the first time.
you want early 3D on consoles, you do PSX.
>>320699678
>>320699251
What is wrong with "It's a good game, but not a good X game"?
Think of Final Fantasy XIII.
It's the worst Final Fantasy title by far, so we can all agree it's correct to say "It's a bad Final Fantasy game".
However, compared to ALL RPGs out there it's still a decent RPG. So one might say "It's a decent game, but it's an awful Final Fantasy game".
Literally nothing wrong with it.
>>320699820
>>320700276
Whenever someone uses a shrug picture and a tentative tone as if they're just saying something as their opinion, you know they secretly think they're wrong but don't understand why so they just try to be a Devil's advocate because they refuse to admit they're wrong and know that nobody has bothered to disprove them yet.
>there's simply an obvious transition period and many games that were perfectly playable back then just don't stand the test of time.
No there isn't. If they don't stand the test of time, it's not because they're part of some non-existent transition period; they just don't.
>why wouldn't concepts age and controls become dated? We aren't using oscilloscopes to control our characters any more and being able to save games is no longer a novelty.
Adding something is not the same thing as replacing something. And even if a mechanic becomes obsolete, that doesn't make the game itself obsolete because people didn't play it and complain "Where's the ____?", they just played without it. If they do ask "where's the ____?", they're judging the game by their own prejudices which are irrelevant to the context of the game's release. Which proves that the supposedly higher standards is just a higher number of things to whine about which spoiled people usually get affected by.
Everything that one player says he can't play without, another player is playing without and possibly having fun. Which one is really the superior style? Gameplay which is 'limited' by the player's knowledge, yet enhanced by it, or gameplay that requires no effort on the player's part? It depends on whether it is an artificial limitation that is due to technical capabilities or an immersive one that could be successfully released today but simply uses less technology. And even if it's the former case, it's still the individual player's choice to play it or a game which is less outdated. The ones who do play it aren't wrong for doing so.
>>320702897
you forgot the long lost
FUN FACTOR!!!!!!!!!!!!
remember, when games could be fun and were rated on said fun?
>>320702792
I'm not dissing. I'm asking.
Because my games look nothing like in your picture. They look almost as crisp as on my computer. Composite cable fuckey aside.
>>320702897
>Graphics
Even that is not as objective as you think. Gears of War is certainly more graphically advanced than Okami, but what madman would prefer to look at the former?
>>320702718
What do you mean, like RPG's? Not that much. I mostly play action oriented games like shmups or first person shooters. I just have a pretty wide taste I guess.
>>320703021
Fun is a buzzword though, that's what /v/ told me.
>>320699678
>>320699251
>fallout 4 fans
>>320702678
>well written story with decent character arcs ( (No, I'm not going to give you a fucking 5 hour English lit lesson on what makes an objectively good narrative)
>tight game play, good responsiveness to controller input and consistently logical movement scheme (players move (x) amount when movement key is pressed and various other movement interactions such as contextual buttons and analog sticks)
>good art direction that is directly tied to the games theme or setting
>same with music, music should be directly tied to key people and events and should also be consistent and relative to the theme or setting
I could go on, but there are obviously ways of judging games and literature objectively and you're fucking retarded for thinking otherwise.
>>320700217
>better designed
>the AI can cause you to fail your mission before the game even starts
>>320699041
>>320703050
Graphics can be judged objectively, art direction can't
>>320702897
Those are not objective criteria.
Something like number of polygons or the fidelity of the sound would be, but those are not.
Hell, for graphics, just think about any number or remakes or rereleases that have higher quality assets but ruin the art style and look worse as a whole, or just feel like an awkward mishmash of assets at widely varying levels of quality.
Look at FFVI on Steam, for instance.
>>320702903
I don't agree. Just seemed different to me, not bad or incomprehensible or anything of that sort.
>>320703219
>game needs a story to be good
Stopped reading there
>>320703363
>>320702096
not the guy you were replying too.
i agree but at the same time fighting even a kut ku or peco with just the supplies from the box with no knowledge of where to get mats to make potions, or sharpen your weapon and things of that nature would be way too much for someone new to the series to take on.
what they should do is condense and have quests be like "get ten blue mushrooms and ten iron ore" and "get ten herbs and ten well done steaks" instead of having to slog through each one individually.
>>320703472
Strawman in what way?
Let me play this back for you
>What makes an objectively good game then?
>well written story with decent character arcs
>>320700917
Yeah, back in the day you could get 1s or 5s. Much more 1s than people are willing to admit though, just check out any used game store and tell me if any PS1 title o the shelf looks appetizing.
But today you are almost guaranteed to get a 3 at all times.
>>320701472
Oh no, he posted a meme frog. Better do what he says :(
>>320699041
Well the games of the past (Like 2013 and before) were malecentric, oppressive and non-progressive to those don't fit with the "mold" of Whitesciety.
We've come such along way in these past couple of years it's astounding.
>>320703598
Look, I think he's retarded and don't agree with him at all, but the idea is obviously that if there is a story, it can be judged objectively.
>>320701747
10/10 trolling anon
where do you even get such top tier bait? are you an aussie?
>>320703752
/pol/ pls
>>320699041
But things can age badly especially games.
User interface matters a LOT, and the pre 2008-9 UIs are just so bad compared to today, yeah you'll have an easier time if you used them back when. But honestly I reckon you'll struggle to find people that are willing to put up with even Deus Ex's UI in 5ish years, just because it'll be so primitive.
What are some games you considered great, but the general public shits on?
>>320701964
Yea, it's weird, the PS2/XBOX/GC was a mix of casualized stuff like Halo and neat ideas like .Hack.
>Dat OVA with the game.
>Dat brown tomboy deliciousness.
>>320703780
>I think he's retarded
>implying you aren't "him"
Nice backpedal though.
>>320702085
women and fags do it all the time anon
>>320703963
I now think you're retarded as well.
>>320703931
I too like Fallen Enchantress. Only complaint is that the customisation in the end makes sessions feel a little samey. I think I prefer really distinct and unique factions over "make your own" ones.
>>320701352
Sonic Adventure was always shit, like even when my Dreamcast was new I hated it.
>>320702349
was warcraft 3 really one of the first rts games to try 3d?
i thought blizz let other companies bleed on it until the kinks were worked out.
>>320703963
You sure like creating those nonexistant enemies to fight, anon.
>>320704036
And I agree with you.
Just saying I can understand the average person being fooled by the scope and spectacle of the game for its time.
>>320702105
>Anon is this mad since people are asking him why he likes to eat shit.
>He even thinks FFX and XII were shit.
HAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
HAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
>>320704218
XII was a pathetic attempt at real time combat. The only saving grace was the option to let the game play itself.
>>320702482
>have you ever been so mad you ramble incoherently for a whole post
wew, cool down lad. It's just the fucking internet, nobody knows you personally have shit taste, were all anon here.
>>320704028
that wasn't me though.
>>320703043
Are you using a flatscreen CRT?
>>320699202
If you think this, you're retarded.
>Play old game
>exactly like I remembered, still love it
>new game comes out that's shit and nothing like the series
>people say "well (old game) wasn't even that great anyways"
Guess the game
>>320705097
This is most new Sonic games for ages now.
>>320705097
devil may FUCK YOU
>>320703931
Maybe not shat on, but two of my favorite games are completely forgotten. Tachyon: The Fringe, and Red Faction Guerilla. Tachyon had downright brilliant worldbuilding and writing, especially for the time and genre, good gameplay, and (because it was a Novalogic game) solid multiplayer. Red Faction Guerilla had dat destruction mechanic, decent open world action, and a brilliant hotseat mode that no-one except me and my friends appreciated.
Sometimes it seem like neither ever existed. For fuck's sake, Tachyon was the first game I can remember with a celebrity voice actor. Jake motherfucking Campbell, who was pretty much at the height of his internet popularity, then. Nothing. No-one ever played it. Red Faction has what is probably one of the shittiest, most ill-conceived sequels in the history of gaming. It was like one of those Hollywood reboots where they make the most bland, generic product they can think of, and slap it with a pre-existing label (RoboCop, Total Recall, Star Trek, etc.). I don't think anyone ever actually bought it.
>>320705196
>>320705252
I was talking about Battlefront.
Isn't it sad that it applies to a bunch of games?
>>320704036
Sonic Adventure was great, fag.
>>320704218
Don't pretend that FFX wasn't awful.
>>320699041
>What is Metal Gear Solid
Seriously those controls are a piece of shit. That's one of the main things that ages a game.
>>320705940
MGS hasn't aged, it's still great. Suck it.
