Is MGSV: GROUND ZEROES the most intricate industry lie yet?
It functioned as a surefire assurance that THE PHANTOM PAIN would be all and more, but in reality
>Ground Zeroes demonstrates how much the developers can do with only one area, leaves the player expecting so much more from the full release
>All the missions are wildly different while serving to demonstrate the first point more by different deployment points in the map which was a promised freedom of choice feature in TPP
>The texture quality and overall graphics were better than in TPP, (look at the first red band trailer for the ground zeroes graphics still in TPP) but nobody believed in a downgrade since GZ was already out
>The guns and the movement in GZ feels weighty and realistic/ ballsy, in TPP its back to the old MGS games where you control an inflatable balloon man shooting airsoft guns
>Ground Zeroes had an interesting and well executed plot/ cutscenes, and gave a trusty ground for believing in Kojima's talk about breaking taboos and possibly losing his job over the controversial content in TPP
>discovering new mission tasks like saving Glaz/ Palitz was exciting instead of obvious because of the fulton system not existing in GZ
How could TPP be such a colossal fuckup when they had the foundation already there, I can't believe someone is actually rooting for Kojima or looking forward to his next game
is GZ worth buying
>>320603520
It might feel clunky and barebones if you've already played TPP, but before TPP came out I played it for 60 hours so I can't not recommend it as long as its under 20e
>>320603659
Never got around to playing it, got TPP for free with my GPU.
>>320603432
>How could TPP be such a colossal fuckup when they had the foundation already there
Because it wasn't allowed to be properly finished.
>>320603432
>blaming Kojima when Konami was obviously responsible for the rushed development and cut features
I think you are the idiot here
>>320603696
I can tell you that GZ feels more like a third person Deus Ex while TPP is more like a classic metal gear game combined with a new far cry or assassins creed game
>>320603764
>>320603870
Thats a retarded copout used by kojima fanboys, the game has been in active development for 5 years ( the 2 years before that going into fine tuning the fox engine and doing designwork for TPP)
The quality of the last gen assets the game has and the amount of unique content in the game doesn't equal 5 years of development and "b-but we needed more time"
With all the assets existing (which would not even take a fucking year to make from the whole team) the entire Afghanistan map takes probably 5-10 hours to make from 5 people working on it
grow up children
>>320603432
GZ is way better than TPP
>>320603949
So you think Kojima intentionally cut all that content?
>>320603949
You really think Hideo "I want every pan to make a different sound" Kojima would want to ship out an unfinished game?
>>320603870
>rushed development
The game and engine were in production for six years. Kojima blew through $80m. I don't blame Konami for expecting a finished product with those resources and time. The story still would have sucked, even if it had been completed btw.
>>320603949
also link related
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCs0xxUS5as
>>320603764
>>320603870
it takes them a week tops to make something like Africa as soon as all the assets are available and I can assure you that creating an open world environment where repeating wildlife and flora is easy the assets for the entirety of Africa didn't even take 6 months to make
>>320604078
>>320604143
I think that he is an idiot who didn't have a clear vision for the game at any point and kept focusing on useless details like having 3 different types of inflatable decoys and the MOTHERBASE minigame from PW instead of focusing on the broad strokes and meaningful main content first
Expect MGS6 from Konami with BB/ Venom snake co-op while building Zanzibar land with 10 buddies including a transforming mecha battle gear and the entire fox unit
Fulton really did ruin TPP.
>>320604216
oh yeah, KONAMI insider here, you will also have a Darth Sidious/ Darth Vader relationship with Frank Jaeger who you will turn into Gray Fox through the game as you first extract PARA-MEDIC
Expect konami to outdo Kojima in all of what he promised on the taboo department
this reddit meme is getting ridiculous
both play exactly the same
if you like the 40hours demo you cannot dislike the 200 hours game because BOTH PLAY THE SAME WAY
>>320604975
>both play exactly the same
Its hilarious when an idiot like you tries to participate in more advanced discussions like these that delve into the depths of the most intricate mechanical differences and a pleb like you cant understand them so it must mean they arent there
tl;dr: you are retarded
Even the most simple differences starting up from how cover magnetism or the inertia in Boss' animations works completely changes the gamefeel, and GZ is fundamentally such a different game its not even funny
inb4 b-but its the exact same because both share some mechanics!!111
>>320604975
Both don't feature the same level design though, Camp Omega > any location in TPP
>>320604975
>im tired of hearing about this so it's a meme
>>320604975
>>320605146
Exactly. There's more to gameplay than the core mechanics.
This is what retards singing TPP's praises don't understand. It has great core mechanics but the level design is fucking awful and there's no gameplay progression.
>>320605172
Okb zero for STARTERS
>>320605657
Kojima fanbois still looking for excuses to hate the game, how pathetic
>>320605146
>The guns and the movement in GZ feels weighty and realistic/ ballsy, in TPP its back to the old MGS games where you control an inflatable balloon man shooting airsoft guns
>B-B-BUT LEVEL DESIGN GUYS
literaly reddit
im out this thread
i might get the gay
Anyone else notice that even though the game feels like tons of story stuff was cut, all the important stuff was still shown to us years ago in trailers almost unchanged. It's like wtf were they doing all this time?
>>320605875
Why would Kojima fanboys hate a Kojima game?
Most of this shit is Kojima's fault.
>>320606236
What, making a great game?
>>320606140
I didnt mention level design so abruptly because everyone already knows it, instead I put
>Ground Zeroes demonstrates how much the developers can do with only one area, leaves the player expecting so much more from the full release
>All the missions are wildly different while serving to demonstrate the first point more by different deployment points in the map which was a promised freedom of choice feature in TPP
>>320606236
This
Im actually pretty indifferent about MGS as a whole and mostly played through the other ones so I wouldn't miss anything about TPP's plot since it seemed worth it before the game came out
I actively hate Kojima for making me waste 2 years of hype and shilling this game to other people when the end result was like this
>>320606285
epic
>>320606335
It's the same level design pretty much, just with open field thrown in between
I refunded ground zero on steam.
I didn't buy the phantom pain.
MGS 1-4 are great games.
Rising was a nice knock off enjoyed it even if alot of the philosophical talk fell apart at the end.
You know how people hate George Lucas for going nuts with power? Thats how i feel about Kojima trashing his own franchise.
HE LITERALLY MADE A GAME FAN SERVICING HIMSELF AND IT WAS SHIT.
>>320606285
But his last game wasn't great. Battlefront even managed to be better.
Is there ever a point in turning the power off in TPP?
>>320606376
No seriously. The game was fantastic, it may not be perfect, but there's no reason to get butthurt over something so quality.
>bbbbbbut muh trailers
>>320606461
The guard comes over, that's it.
>>320606461
More cover
>>320604216
>>320604403
Nice if they got the real talent back
>>320606427
>MGS 1-4 are great games.
>MGS 4
>Great
>>320606409
Ground Zeroes, main mission
>one full level
>starts from the cliffside, immeaditely a puzzle encounter in trying to figure out whether or not you proceed by the cliff towards the watchtower with a light that can spot you, or if you should attempt to go for the iron wall/ gate on the left which has a moving patrol of 2 people
>said patrol proceeds to continue through the one road in the map towards the left prisoner camp area, which involves the optional task of
>pick up a silenced assault rifle
>save the escaped prisoner
from there you will immeaditely encounter 2 stage hazards depending on what direction you close in from, since after the patrol a truck will come through by the same road, and the moving patrol will relieve another guard from the post at the camp so that he will walk through the left camp towards the main area with the warehouses
I literally just described one small portion of Camp Omega and a fraction of the missions structure and its already more deep than anything in TPP, including >>320605814 OKB zero which is an easy beeline for skullface when you realize that the only reason you ever get spotted in the game is because you take risks by going for the artificial distractions (extracting people and items)
>>320606524
>repeated missions
>no actual gameplay progression
>no proper boss fights
>little to no enemy variety
>map is empty as fuck
>story is segmented and just sort of shows up whenever it wants
>clearly unfinished
>skull face is an awful villain
>eli/metal gear plot never resolved
>twist that everyone guessed after the first trailer comes right the fuck out of nowhere, has nothing to do with the rest of the story, and basically just reuses the MGS2 twist but does it WORSE by having it take place at the end
>>320606427
>Rising was a nice knock off
>knock off
>>320606749
Spot on. Love me some level design analysis.
>>320606749
This just this goes to show that PP would have been better as a linear game. There's literally no reason for it to be open world.
>>320606749
That's part of the open world nature of the game my man, do you run straight for the goal or do you try to get some extra supplies along the way, have fun with it. And the infiltration complexity is more than covered in FOB invasions, there's literally nothing missing
>>320606874
It would be great if instead of two big maps they went with several GZ-like maps each one featuring a main mission and several side ops
>>320606981
Open world stealth games are just a bad idea. Why the fuck do I want so much empty space in a genre where the fun comes from making your way around guards in a tight environment?
Should have been "open level" like GZ, or a slightly more open Chaos Theory.
>>320603432
>tfw I think to myself that TPP can't possibly be bad
>The engine is designed to make easy levels
>They already have the gameplay down with GZ
>Literally all they need to do is refine it and make more of GZ to have a 10/10 game
>They have years to do this
>mfw they still manage to fuck it up
They should have made every single mission in the game European extreme.
Actually you can mod the game so it is that way. And then fucking wow, the whole game is as incredible as GZ. Missions are quite deep too, you never see it because you always rush it guns blazing and never had to restart it twelve times in a row.
>>320607084
>the fun comes from making your way around guards in a tight environment?
You still do that though, it's just that most missions have you travelling between multiple outposts to invade, and then there's FOBs again.
>>320607264
eh, having extreme options for all the missions sort of hurts the variety I think. Although you can always argue that it would have been better to just have harder unique missions instead of rehashes for ch2, but yeah more content would have always been better
>>320607246
>all they need to do is refine it and make more of GZ
that's what they did though. Don't forget, everybody LOVED this game when they were first going through it. It was the lore and hype fags who did nothing but constantly watch the trailers for a year that started whining when their headcanon didn't come true. And now look, GOTY and every thread is just constantly shitting on it
>>320606981
>And the infiltration complexity is more than covered in FOB invasions,
in a way, I agree, because the mission in the game where Mosquito takes over mother base and you have to infiltrate the RnD strut is one of the only good main missions in the entire game
However, FOB encounters usually boil up to extremely unfair setups where you're extremely lucky if you manage to both avoid detection and still actually reap something from the base, or absolutely easy shits where the guards are barely a threat and you just make it to the core of the struts which structures you know inside and out since its the exact fucking same mother base every time
>>320607084
this
Literally nobody can make the argument that TPP wouldn't be better if it wasn't 20 GZ styled missions without fulton or anything, but a similar (if slightly more limited but meaningful) deployment system where you pick the spot to land on the maps edge and choose your loadout for the mission
>>320607246
thats what everyone thought, as I said earlier in the thread, I played GZ for over 60 hours, bothered to get one (almost 2) world records in it, and TPP just isn't the same at all
>>320607295
If you combine the airport, the oil plant, the afghan power plant and OKB zero you might have one level that somewhat starts to close on on the complexity and size of the open map that Camp Omega was
Go ahead and tell me exactly how exciting it is to make your way around all the lifeless outposts (which start to get even less existent in africa where its just marshes, trees and tents) where you always have 10 guards max, 1 sitting in the watchtower and 2 by the fire talking until one moves away
>>320603949
It doesn't matter how long the game was in development, it was still released unfinished. There's literally physical evidence to support that.
>>320607513
shat on it since day one m8 also did you get in the komani reviewer boot camp as well?
I said this before OP, Ground Zeroes is the best thing MGSV had to offer, musically, story-wise level design and mission design are far better than in the actual game.
No tape or sequence in MGSV were nearly as good as the Paz/Chico story they had going including the tapes.
Then as you said it OP. Mission Design! Tell me was there ever any mission with a rail sequence in MGSV? I wanted to full vietnam on them with the chopper.
Or the tape side mission in GZ, which has multiole ways of solving. That one side mission has more substance to it tham any in V
>>320607513
>GOTY
Ayy
That's because actual level design > generic empty AAA open world shitfest. The only good bit of TPP was when you were infiltrating linear, enclosed camps, which happened like twice.
Also, having 5 different side-ops works as good mission variety for a 2 hour demo, not a full fucking game like TPP.
Also, the story and characters in GZ were far better and interesting in GZ since stuff actually happened and Kojima didn't have the time to turn Skullface's character into a joke.
TPP was the disappointment of the decade, you could see Kojima just doesn't give a fuck about the franchise anymore.
>>320607865
>Tell me was there ever any mission with a rail sequence in MGSV? I wanted to full vietnam on them with the chopper.
jesus christ, you actually want more shitty on rails missions? they're even less replayable than what we actually got.
>>320604078
Phantom Pain, DONT YOU GET IT?
Kojima is such a genious
GZ was pretty shit too tbhfam
>>320607513
>TPP
>GOTY
Fuck off. It's nothing more than Ubisoft's open world AAA 5/10 game with MGS slapped on it.
Also, the retarded theory about playing as Medic did come true and was made obvious from the opening fucking sequence of the game, with the big "reveal" surprising absolutely no-one.
>>320605814
Okb zero is ONE LINE
Linear as fuck, man. The camp before that where huey was held was even better
>>320607878
lmao
>>320608436
>Phantom Pain doesn't even have a final boss
lmao
>>320606737
MGS4 was for the "old" fans of the series.
If anything is a missing link, it's 4
MGSV is for the CoD audience. Called it the time i saw a bloody screen and reflex mode.
>>320608436
>using a creative combination of buff potions and specialized character building to render otherwise difficult encounters trivial.
One of the hallmarks of a good RPG.
It's faithful to the source material, too.
I don't understand the "10 levels like camp omega" criticism. NONE of the main missions take part in the open world, they are all in tiny designated areas, aside from important sideops you're always inside of an area of a similar size to Camp Omega and the missions have enemy spawns designed around that.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think it's a flawless, or even a great game, but the level design in missions is not what drags it down for me.
The biggest problems are, in my opinion:
>underusing the open world
outside of sideops there is nothing at all there, worst of all the replayable side ops means that the open world gets stuck with one type of enemy spawn, there's no dynamism to the world.
>motherbase
the actual area itself is underused and the whole concept is poorly implemented into a stealth game and has been since peace walker. I hate to say it but portable ops got it right by making it a mostly optional feature.
Rewarding players for encountering enemies in a stealth game is a terrible, terrible mechanic. Making it all but essential to progress is ludicrous, for all it's talk of freedom of choice in the promotional materials you really have none until the end game. Tranq/cqc and fulton makes the game a chore until you can afford to develop the more interesting tactics, but the chances are by that time you have completed most of the sideops and missions.
>>320608616
1 good boss battle > no good boss batles
>>320608436
are they wraiths? I thought they were just tall ass elves in goofy armor
>>320608786
>MGSV
>good boss battles
>>320608734
indeed.i still think Witcher 3 combat is miles better than the second one
>>320607878
>implying
kek, at least TPP had gameplay
>>320608891
say whatever you want the fight against sehalatropotopicus was awesome
>>320608932
It had good controls and core mechanics.
The rest of the gameplay sucked dick and the game was a snoozefest.
>>320608067
So lets make a chopper in the game and hardly use it, good logic m8
At least let ne stear it, i'm the boss here
>>320607569
>you might have one level that somewhat starts to close on on the complexity and size of the open map that Camp Omega was
take off those goggles bro
>>320609003
What about it was awesome, tell me
It's all Kojima's fault. He had five fucking years and he spent it bullshitting as a celeb and whoring his Joosten. That's what happens when your ego gets the best of you.
>>320609009
>the gameplay was good, but the rest of the gameplay was shit
it also had better itemization than witcher kek
>>320609112
the part i was out of ammo, running for my life, with all the tanks and weapons around me destroyed. then my chopper started to shoot the fucking thing just long enough for me to reload and give the last hit
>>320603659
yeah if you want to kill americans with Snake
>>320609456
That's the best part about the game, honestly
