>/v/ hates "movie games" like Uncharted and The Last of Us
>loves this shit which is basically an interactive book
What gives?
Books > Hollywood-tier trash
>implying it doesn't have gameplay
>implying it doesn't have some of the best magic in vidya
The only valid complaints people have about it are that the 2nd Edition D&D ruleset doesn't translate well to vidya. Beyond that, the combat is pretty much on par with the rest of the Infinity Engine catalog.
>>320184159
Uncharted and the last of us are uninspired snooze fests while shit like this some visual novels (ace attorney,999) Out Of This World and Metal Gear are fun and interesting "cinematic" games
>>320184159
Torment is fucking trash with some of the most atrocious combat ever.
Are Uncharted and Last of Us interactive?
>>320184676
Man that canon spell
>>320184676
Dude, the combat in Torment is flat out shit.
People don't just pump up the speech stats for more dialogue options, but to skip combat.
>>320184159
The book told an interesting story.
Movie games are basically eight hour long Michael Bay Special Effects extravaganzas. Except the explosion can glitch out and Bumblebee's textures don't load.
Be salty all you want but aside from a few PC games Uncharted and The Last of Us are some of the best games I've played.
>inb4 some meme tier response
>>320184942
That's because most of the people playing it are plebs who drank the "lol the combat is shit" koolaid and don't bother with the combat.
Then they reach the parts of the game that require combat, get wrekt because they never bothered to practice the combat, then bitch about the shit combat because they can't figure out how to cast buffs and set aggro to Morte.
>>320184159
Moviegames would be passable if the movie were any good.
>>320184676
>implying it doesn't have gameplay
It does, but it's so bad you might as well take that aspect out of the game.
Torment is pretty much a western VN
>>320185482
people who like those games want instant gratification out of things and would rather have the game play itself than have any kind of mental process on how to progress
>>320185482
So? This board is full of uneducated people, your opinion is worthless.
>>320184942
>Dude, the combat in Torment is flat out shit.
I wish /v/ had some sort of filter that only let's people who have played more than 30 games post here.
PS:T combat isn't great, but it's far from shit. It let's you do what needs to be done.
Now go and try Summoner for PC, that game has fucking awful controls and shit combat that you're literally going to tear your hair out not even 5 hours in.
>>320185748
>game plays itself
Aside from a handful of qte parts, the game lets you control speed of story progression TLoU especially, there's a lot do explore even in the small maps.
Sometimes it's fun to play a very well polished 'movie' game rather than something like Anno where I have to invest 20+ hours to get to the good stuff.
>>320186151
I only played Summoner on the ps2, is there controller support on pc?
>>320184538
/thread
>>320184159
>loves this shit which is basically an interactive book
There you go, you just answered your own question. It isn't a movie that plays itself, or a walking simulator with no gameplay but an interactive book. A book with tons of characters, plots, intrigue, mysterious and endings.
If any game, WHAT SO EVER, lacks in one department, then the other faculties should more than make up for the deficient. Torment has the best story of any game, ever released up to this point, bar none.
>>320184159
RPGs are the sole exception to that rule
569 hours logged on skyrim on steam, probably another 100 on xbox
>>320186850
why?
>>320184751
I was always a fan of Adventure movies, Sahara is one of my favorites.
>>320186850
Casual
>>320184159
Okok - strictly adhering to your logic, you're implying that watching a movie is more entertaining than reading a book
And for that, you're a fucking simpleton, and you should be euthanized
Torment has good gameplay. Remember, combat is not the only kind of gameplay in an RPG. There is also dialogue trees, puzzles, and exploration. While Torment is a bit lacking in combat variety and challenge compared to the other Infinity Engine games, it does everything else so well that this is easily overlooked.
No game will ever be 100% perfect. If you want to enjoy games you will have to look past whatever shortcomings they have to experience the good parts.
>>320184159
/v/ is fine with story-driven waist-high cover simulators when they have other redeeming qualities
Uncharted is a damn fine game. I didn't know "/v/ hates it" but they'd be wrong if they did. Yes, you can hate wrong. Why is it damn fine? Because appart from a short segment towards the endthe one with zombiesthe whole game is fun through and through
>>320184159
I get you senpai
I started playing baldurs gate because /v/ hypes it up and its shit
>>320187536
bullshit, if you sat there with a stopwatch and timed everything you did over an hour of play, 18 minutes would be reading, 2 minutes would be choosing dialogue from a list, 10 minutes would be punching stupid enemies to death, and 30 minutes would be watching your party slowly move across the map going from one npc to another and babysitting them when they get stuck.
the game could have been a decent adventure game like monkey island, but as a rpg it's complete garbage.
>>320188058
Todd made frech robot mainstream, Todd save shinji mikami. Can he save another robo, another franchise?
>>320184159
it's smarter and well thought out
something your dear movie person shooters can't acheive
>>320188963
Oh, so if the game doesn't wave a sign in front of you saying "this is gameplay" you can't tell otherwise?
Torment's gameplay mostly comes from figuring shit out, and it will be hard for people like you to understand because it's not being shoved down your throat in the most obvious manner.
You should also play games for longer than an hour to get a proper feel for the game
>>320188963
>punching stupid enemies to death
>not kiting some of them with Fall-From-Grace while Morte and Annah tank with Shield cast on them so Namless and Dak'kon who are squishy can murder everything properly.
I bet you buried every encounter under TNO bodies like a scrub.
>>320189542
>Torment's gameplay mostly comes from figuring shit out
I love how planescape fans are so willing to flat out lie to make their game sound better. you don't have to figure out shit about fuck in the game. you always have a npc that spoonfeeds you exposition and tells you who to talk to next.
>>320190187
no I just made my nameless one a high wisdom fighter like someone who actually understands the game's mechanics instead of a drone who listens to the "so smart gotta play as high int mage" retards.
>>320187389
That's only 47 days. So less than one day a week for a year. Morrowind has been out fucking years.
Is that supposed to be impressive?
Is it that hard to believe that some people enjoyed PS:T despite its flaws?
>>320190562
I agree with you, TNO is better as a fighter. With specializations, you don't need high STR to be a good fighter in 2e, so you can still run high INT, WIS, and CHA, too. However, because he can't wear armor and DEX is best left at 8, he's still squishier than any of the other party members until late game when you get your CON over 20.
>>320184159
>/v/ hates "movie games"
/v/ loves MGS though
>>320191519
you don't need int ever because of cranium rat charms, and there's actually not many times when you need charisma. the easiest way to get through the game while still being able to pass 99% of the dialogue checks is to start with 18 wisdom, get to 18 strength by level 7 so the fighter bonus will bump you directly to 19, and putting the rest into constitution so you become unkillable.
>>320187389
That's pretty normal. I doubt that's even 100% finished on a blind play through.
>>320184159
people getting all shmeezly about shit.
story games are fine
life is strange is fine
gone home is fine
just don't play these games if you don't like them.
>>320184159
because the story in PS:T is actually good, unlike the other games you mentioned.
it also intertwines story and gameplay by giving the player choices and having the game react differently to many of them.
>>320184159
Torment combat is not good, but its not awful either, some spells have some cool animations, and I just they could have pulled it off.
Still combat is rare and makes sense when you do fight for most of the sections.
Torment is the perfect Visual novel and storyfag game and I love it. Its so exotic and weird I just felt wonder on every encounter.
Which is funny these days my favourite games usually are make your own story, like M&B, Simulators, the more vague the story and more of background flavour the better. Although I can endure games like Pillars fine.
Hope the new Torment is at least decent.
>>320184159
>>loves this shit which is basically an interactive book
you answered your own question
books are an intellectual medium, while movies are not. /v/ is an intellectual gathering, it only makes sense that they prefer the more intellectually stimulating medium
>>320186195
> things plebs say
>>320192151
The story was shit though. Being verbose doesn't make it automatically good. The actually interesting parts of the story (the multiverse, the lady of pain, the nature of Sigil and the spire) got little to no attention. Outside of those aspects of the story the whole thing was just "YOU CAN'T DIE, FIND OUT WHY".
>>320191848
Charms only work if you know the checks are coming. Most of the reward for high stats comes in dialogues you don't get a second chance at.
For example, you need nearly max Charisma to lie to the Pillar of Skulls about the location of Fjull, thus avoiding sacrificing yourself or any of your companions to it. The only way you'd know before hand is if you were using a guide or save-scumming.
>>320192152
Planescape is such a good setting, it's like 50% of the reason I liked Torment. I wish there were more games set on this, or similar, settings.
>>320192843
That's my main beef with it. The setting is incredibly interesting, but the whole game was set in what would appear to be the ass of Sigil.
>>320192696
the only thing I remember needing intelligence for was upgrading dakkon and nordom, and the only really important charisma check is flattering ravel, which is doable with like 10 or 11 base stat if you get bonus points and use equips that boost it before you talk to her.
>>320192843
Fantasy desperately needs an infusion of surreal drug induced craziness, its too fucking GOT dirty these days.
Bring back Moebius landscapes, soul searching quests, spiritual and personal narratives. Bring back the Dune feel, classic Sword and Sorcery.
Fuck this.
>>320193623
Basically bring back people that were inspired by progressive rock and get rid of the people inspired by money and Skyrim.
>>320193623
Any game like this anon?
>>320193623
how is it that people don't get tired of the same medieval European setting, though? I mean, it's not BAD but we've seen it so many times in so many games.
>>320193910
don't you think that an unexploited setting would attract more interest? I'd like to think so.
>>320193983
Fucking no.
>>320184159
Because the writing is good and the game doesn't rely on being flashy to sell.
>>320193623
I get an urge to re watch the Fifth Element. Just because Moebius, rip.
>>320194190
Realistically speaking it should but it wouldn't because normies don't want creative games. They want generic fantasy trash and memes. That wasn't in anyway a jab, progressive rock and power metal have historically been pretty closely tied to high fantasy and sci fi.
>>320194426
>>320193910
>>320193623
About as good as you get in 3D is Morrowind, and we've all played that.
I want Obsidian to team up with MKirkbride, and dangle acid in front of his face like a carrot, then act as a filter for his crazy shit.
>Obsidian makes TES game with full on politics with multitude of different cultures and societies actually explored like Morrowind
>Expansion is prequel with the Dwemer where its basically Evangelion
Planescape torment has a decent combat. If you really want a game with shit combat, you should look towards Arcanum.
>>320194884
This
Both had great settings however.
>>320194694
Panzer Dragoon also had tons of mystical elements, and lots of art inspired by Moebius.
Because interactive books > movies
>>320192039
I can tolerate Life is Strange fucking audience, and understand why fucking millenials like it, but you gone too far with Gone Home anon. Fuck that pretentious piece of shit to hell.
>>320195664
Gone Home had great 90's atmosphere and the fathers story was interesting as fuck, plus I like cute lesbians.
>>320195324
Reminds me of Naussica alot, this is a comic right? I heard this Moebius guy and Miyazaki were buddies or something
>>320195664
>>320196139
Gone home did environmental storytelling really well, and the house was really really well detailed, but people WERE sucking its dick because of the dykes. They should have just made a Thief Fan mission with all that detail.
>>320196139
Fuck you.
>>320196391
Moebius was extremely influential for early manga, and Miyazaki venerated him.
"Miyazaki - Through Arzach, which dates from 1975 I believe. I only met it in 1980, and it was a big shock. Not only for me. All manga authors were shaken by this work. Unfortunately when I discovered it, I already had a consolidated style. So I couldn't use his influence to enrich my drawing. Though, even today, I think he has an awesome sense of space. I directed Nausicaä under Moebius' influence."
>>320193623
Fuck I started reading Dune again the other day and I forgot how amazing it was. Herbert really was a genius, it's just too bad that his son is doing his best to piss all over his legacy
>>320196391
>>320192843
>>320193006
There were plans to make other games set in the Planescape setting after Torment, but they didn't pan out for several reasons, the biggest being the end of 2e ADnD and its reboot as 3rd Edition by Wizards of the Coast. This spelled the end of the weirder settings that had flourished under TSR in the '90s (Planescape, Spelljammer, and Dark Sun). Now we're left with and eternity of Greyhawk and Forgotten Realms, with some Eberron thrown in for taste. It's really sad.
>>320192504
>The story was shit though. Being verbose doesn't make it automatically good. The actually interesting parts of the story (the multiverse, the lady of pain, the nature of Sigil and the spire) got little to no attention. Outside of those aspects of the story the whole thing was just "YOU CAN'T DIE, FIND OUT WHY".
If you think that's an adequate summary of Torment's main plot, you really didn't get it.
When you wake up on a cold stone slab in the Mortuary with no memories, you are basically a new being, just born, with no real connection to your earlier incarnations. Your goals and values from the start are your own, different than those who came before. Yet you will pay for their crimes and mistakes, because technically they were YOUR crimes and mistakes. It's not fair, but there is no escaping it.
The Nameless One coping with the sins of his past lives is one of the main themes of Torment. How do you take responsibility for actions that are not your own? Can you be sure you wouldn't make the same decision in that situation? Can I atone for the sins of my past selves? Should I?
The stories of your companions expand on this (beyond having their own themes and messages) because many of them became what they currently are because of the meddling of another Incarnation. You are surrounded by broken people of your own creation. Why do they feel such duty to you? Can you mend them, or will you discard them like the disposable tools they are?
>>320184538
P. much this tbqh
>>320197037
>>320196713
You sound too emotionally invested in hating this game to discuss the actual flaws and merits of it.
A new Thief game with old school thief gameplay and the environmental storytelling and detail of gone home would be fucking amazing.
>>320194694
Skyrim itself seems so Tolkien-esque but TES lore is some fucking crazy shit
>redguards used to be able to summon giant laser swords by singing
>argonians are basically trans-dimensional aliens who should not exist
I just wish that a game with Skyrim's setting was handled by a company who actually knew how do do semi-decent gameplay and not railroad you into shit.
>>320197321
The key word there is game, which gone home lacks any, dont even mention gone home and Thief in the same sentence.
>>320197398
Anon, it's not that they don't know how to do that. They choose not to because fuck you. Normies just want memes and Lord of the Rings. The only thing in Skyrim that really blew me away was Blackreach and that was just a glorified dungeon.
>>320197143
>Your goals and values from the start are your own, different than those who came before.
but this is why the story is poorly written. whose values are they? the game asks what can change the nature of a man, but it completely glosses over what defines it in the first place. is the nameless one characterized only by his episodic memory? when the player makes the meta decision of what alignment to be are we supposed to take that as an underlying constant that goes beyond memory, or are we supposed to believe that sometimes the nameless one just wakes up evil for some reason?
instead of addressing this the game goes off about "muh belief" and "muh KNOWING" like that's supposed to be deep or something.
>>320197143
I don't know much about RPGs. Can you tell me how is the transition from the 2e to 3rd ed. rulesets tied to the existence of actual settings?
Can a setting not be independent of rulesets?
>>320197986
It's more just a general representation thing. Once 3E rolled around we got fewer modules, adventures, and sourcebooks for the more bizarre campaign settings.
>>320197603
You are dumb as fuck if you thought I was comparing the two games directly in that post. Gone Home is an adventure game, you can not like it but not considering it a game makes you sound like a mongoloid who just started playing video games.
>>320197946
Yes the answer is just Belief really.
Just like the Riddle of Steel.
>>320184159
OP you making another of these threads?
Man Planescape getting praise is really upsetting you huh?
>>320184159
RPG fans are either normal or autistic as fuck. If it's not Fallout, or anything by Bioware then the fanbase is probably autistic.
>>320197143
Torment was supposed to be about the same theme. Alas that it fell short.
>>320197674
>>320197398
>we will never get to pilot the numidium
>>320197321
>>320197603
I agree with anon1. I got Gone Home in a Humble Bundle, not really knowing anything about it besides controversy.
I thought it was a thriller game. Going through the first rooms ( like the living room with the t.v. on) with the rain and thunder, I was spooked the fuck out. Honestly, although the story was silly the game was atmospheric as hell.
>>320198268
and where does belief come from? are you born believing things? does the nameless one wake up believing in random things every time? what can you believe in if you don't know who you are? even metal gear solid 2 did a better job of addressing this.
>>320193623
This is one reason why Morrowind was so good and felt so different than the rest. There were so few things in that world that could be found in real life. Animals? just rats. Flora? nope. Transportation? No horses, just giant bugs. Food? Whickweat, eggs from giant insect colonies, etc.
If you think Regret was the true answer, you didn't understand the story of Torment.
>>320197986
The forced accent kills it; would have been good writing otherwise.
Should've just put something like "She speaks in a thick accent that splinters your ears."
>>320198895
Belief comes from your experiences. The Nameless One has his past experience to draw from, whether he knows it or not, but he is shaped by his experiences in Sigil and beyond.
>>320197398
>tfw there were no flying cocaine whales in Skyrim
Fuck you, Bethesda.
An elderly man was sitting alone on a dark path, right? He wasn't certain of which direction to go, and he'd forgotten both where he was traveling to and who he was. He'd sat down for a moment to rest his weary legs, and suddenly looked up to see an elderly woman before him. She grinned toothlessly and with a cackle, spoke: 'Now your third wish. What will it be?'
'Third wish?' The man was baffled. 'How can it be a third wish if I haven't had a first and second wish?'
'You've had two wishes already,' the hag said, 'but your second wish was for me to return everything to the way it was before you had made your first wish. That's why you remember nothing; because everything is the way it was before you made any wishes.' She cackled at the poor berk. 'So it is that you have one wish left.'
'All right,' said the man, 'I don't believe this, but there's no harm in wishing. I wish to know who I am.'
'Funny,' said the old woman as she granted his wish and disappeared forever. 'That was your first wish.'
>>320198895
Belief comes form Torment. Suffering and Being creates Belief. Its all very Heiddeger.
Endure. In enduring grow strong
"I've seen belief move cities, make men stave off death, and turn an evil hag's heart half-circle. This entire Fortress has been constructed from belief. Belief damned a woman, whose heart clung to the hope that another loved her when he did not. Once, it made a man seek immortality and achieve it. And it has made a posturing spirit think it is something more than a part of me. "
Makes me think. The Dustmen are probably right.
>>320200215
>The Dustmen are probably right.
How so?
Also I love how each line of that refer to something you experienced on your journey.
>>320200215
that quote basically just says that belief is magic, which may be the case in the setting the game takes place in, but it doesn't say anything deep or clever.
>>320200803
I wish it got back to our world where belief is magic too. Where beliefs caused revolutions, beliefs preceded the fall of empires, and beliefs keep thousands from despair and suicide.
>>320200904
but that's not magic, it's ideology. one of them is rooted in real causes while the other is no different from saying hocus pocus.
>>320197986
The jump from 2e to 3e was the largest change in the history of the game, an effort to unify and streamline the growing body of rules that had accumulated since the 70's. It was a large enough change that the new system wasn't close enough to be considered officially compatible with the old material, so everything got rebooted. When starting from scratch with new source books and modules, it makes sense to focus on the most popular, well-known, and accessible settings first. Planescape, Spelljammer, and Dark Sun were left behind. So, while it's entirely possible to port 2e material to 3e and play Planescape that way, the setting is not "officially" supported, and doesn't receive any new material.
>>320197946
>>320198268
There's a reason I said "you". The Nameless One is a self-insert protag. The game wants you to make decisions for him naturally, and intends to judge you based on those decisions. That's why you don't pick your alignment at chargen (like in PnP DnD and the other IE games) and instead your alignment is based on your actions.
Also, the focus on "belief" comes from the Planescape setting. It doesn't necessarily have a deep meaning, it is part of the nature of the planes. There's a lecturer in the Civic Festhall you explains this (I think), but basically all the outer planes and Sigil, and the gods, angels, demons, and devils that inhabit them, are actually formed from the thoughts and beliefs of mortals. Y'know how in Limbo, where the Githzerai are from, you can shape matter with your mind? Everything in the Great Wheel is like that, just to a much lesser extent. If you lied to people and said your name was Adahn enough times, there would actually be a guy named Adahn in Sigil after you come back from Carceri.
>>320184159
Why the fuck is Torment getting spammed so much these days? I only started playing it a week ago and I couldn't fucking into it. It's slow as shit and the redundant dialogue options are annoying as fuck to sift through.
>>320200803
The game itself is never overly deep. Although there are numerous examples in game of belief working and creates a nice narrative. Does it try to answer how fucking consciousness begins?
No.
You would need the Buddha for that not Avellone.
>>320200601
The game begins and end in the Mortuary, the planes are defined by duality, good and evil and a knife edge of neutrality ever shifting. The religious temporality is one of never ending cycles,like the ending of Torment is actually another begging, of , well, Torment
The only faction that seeks to break the circle are the Dustmen, their true death seem to carry you aways from the planes forever.
>>320201392
True. However, there is no guarantee that they can break you out of the cycle.
>>320201165
you don't understand. the player is making decisions on a meta-level, but at the level of the game there's no explanation of where the beliefs are coming from. in real life a person doesn't wake up with amnesia and start murdering people because he forgot that you're not supposed to kill people because that kind of memory is stored in a different part of your brain. in the game however your alignment is set to neutral, implying that morality is strictly based on episodic memory. the question then is what is it that's pushing the nameless one in whatever direction you decide to take him? that question isn't answered.
>>320201695
No there is no guarantee. But the need for freedom is there. Remember that Ravel tried to break the cage. She wants out as well.
And I bet the first incarnation wanted it as well. Remember his sin was so great that the planes are actually dying slowly because of it.
I bet the first incarnation wanted to end Existence itself.
Who the fuck knows really. Just my two cents.
>>320201392
>The game itself is never overly deep.
not according to its dickriders
>the most intelligent game ever
>the only game with writing as good as literature
>a game only philosophers can understand
t planescape fans on /v/
Thanks >>320198101 and especially >>320201165, that was very well explained.
>>320201719
I think your problem is you're operating under some sort of assumption there is a "morality" segment of the brain. Then, from there, you're looking for some sort of absolute motivator beyond simple (or complex) cause and effect.
>>320202068
So in the end the most zen of philosophies created the most harm.
>>320184538
OP got rekt in the first post. thread really should have ended here.
>>320202314
Kind off. Buddhism actually about "ending the world", thats how they prhase it sometimes, only for yourself, achieving liberation from the cycle of rebirth
I just think it makes sense
Remember as well how interested an incarnation of The Nameless was on Dakkons blade, a blade that could supposedly kill the fucking planes.
>>320202081
None of those are mutually exclusive.
The game never goes up it's own ass.
>>320202256
what assumptions can you make given what the game tells you? if you consider that a person is born with a concept of morality, it doesn't make sense for the nameless one to have a different alignment every incarnation, but if you consider it to be learned behavior then there's no explanation for why he wouldn't have a child's understanding of morality every time he wakes up.
>>320202314
>>320202594
forgot this.
It is revealed that the Practical Incarnation rescued Dak'kon solely for the latter's "karach blade." Allegedly, such a weapon, in the hands of a wielder who knows himself, could be powerful enough to unmake the multiverse.
>>320202594
>>320202880
I never saw that before. Thank you anon.
Perhaps it is time for me to play this again. I always fall into the trap of the min-maxer, like the practical incarnation. But this time I want to play a man whose belief is being formed, then whose belief guides him.
>>320203105
Now you know why Aoskar God of Portals is dead( is he?). And outlawed.
He probably just made a portal out of this existence. Thats a no no for the Lady, true gatekeeper that she is.
>>320200215
>>320201392
All of the factions in Sigil are right about the setting in their own way. The beliefs of the Dustmen and the Sensates are the most relevant to TNO's situation though. What the Dusties don't realize is that when you die as a petitioner (dead mortal inhabiting a plane as an afterlife)you become a part of the plane you're on.
>>320201719
>the player is making decisions on a meta-level
What is immersion.
>what is it that's pushing the nameless one in whatever direction you decide to take him?
>direction you decide to take him
>you decide
>you
I mean, it's a role-playing game. What kind of person TNO is decided by you. The game doesn't explain why he is the way he is when he wakes up any more than it should explain to you how you're supposed to act. Beyond that, though, there are very concrete reasons why you try to find out the secret to your immortality.
When you start the game the only connection or guide you have is the tattoo on your back and what Morte says. Later on it becomes obvious that SOMETHING wants you dead, as evidenced by the shades that attack you, and even if you can fight them off now, they seem to have claimed the lives of several of your past selves, so they are not to be trifled with.
>>320202768
>if you consider [morality] to be learned behavior
It is
>then there's no explanation for why he wouldn't have a child's understanding of morality every time he wakes up.
He clearly does.
The starting alignment isn't so much "neutral" as it is "undefined," and what he eventually ends up as is determined entirely by his actions and how he interprets those actions. As just because he starts amoral, doesn't mean he starts retarded. As there is no relation between morality and intelligence.
>>320203657
How are the other groups right about the nature of planescape?
>>320201165
The Lady of Pain would probably do a good paizuri.
>>320204080
Because planescape is basically just a slightly more solid patch of limbo. Every group is right because their beliefs alter the fabric of reality.
>a bloated as fuck low tier fantasy novel posing as a game is better written than a movie game mimicking good adventure films
Sorry guys, but that's not true. Not to mention Amy Hennig is one of the best writers in the industry, far better than that diva Avellone.
>>320204551
Hennig's closest brush with greatness was legacy of kain, but publisher shenanigans kept fucking it up, leaving it a broken mess.
>>320203754
>He clearly does.
that's untrue. someone with absolutely no understanding of morality wouldn't understand that you aren't supposed to lie or that murder is bad, but it's entirely possible for a player to use his own understanding of morality to make the nameless one lawful good or chaotic evil right from the start.
>>320204723
I believe she also wrote for Jak and Daxter which is also quite good.
How bad will the new torment game be?
>>320205007
You're getting dangerously close to claiming morality is necessary for people to not be lying murdering psychopaths.
>>320204080
Most of the are pretty meta, like the Sensates: in DnD, having lots of life experiences does actually improve you, because you gain exp and level up. For the Guvners it would be how the game is defined by very specific rules that everyone must follow, or for the Mercykillers, the idea that the DM is the ultimate judge and nothing can hide from his justice. To the Xaositects, nothing really matters and everything is chaos because the rules of the game are still arbitrary, artificial creations.
>>320204184
This is also a good explanation.
>>320204551
>seriously hating based Avellone
Don't do it, m8.
>>320205007
The game never tells the player that "lying and murdering is bad, don't do that." DnD in general doesn't view any alignment as inherently good or bad. They're just regions on a grid.
>>320205348
What else did Avallone write that is as good?
New Vegas?
>>320184942
No you fucking idiot. The reason why people dumped everything into speech stats, intelligence and wisdom is because the people who designed the game made it to be completely fucking biased. It's the only playthrough that nets you the most experience, the only playthrough where you can get the most dialogue options and story and it's also the only run that nets you that 1,000,000 experience almost near the end. Being a fighter always entails grinding you fucking ass off.
You automatically realize this by just playing the first 3 hives as a warrior and as a mage.
>>320205184
there are plenty of thinkers who claim that without learned morality people would be be murder hobo cavemen
>>320205474
>DnD in general doesn't view any alignment as inherently good or bad. They're just regions on a grid.
that's the exact opposite of how it works. one of the alignments is literally called "good" and there's a spell that will objectively tell you whether something is good or not.
>>320205885
Good, evil, order, chaos, and neutral are just labels. Asking a god if something is good or evil is just asking that god what it considers good or evil.
And we don't call those people "thinkers," we call them christians.
>>320205497
Mask of the Betrayer?
>>320206232
But then I have to live with the terrible panning system.
>>320205497
Torment is the "masterpiece", but he also worked on New Vegas, NWN2: Mask of the Betrayer, and KotOR2.
The really telling thing though is that the companions he designed for Pillars of Eternity were still considered far and away the best ones, even though most of what he wrote for them was cut from the game.
>>320205125
They seem to be taking their time, which is good. I think McComb is capable of making something great, but am wary of it falling into the trap of trying to imitate the original too closely. It needs to be unique and able to stand on it's own.
Numenera is certainly not lacking in the "style" department at least.
>>320206446
Who did he write for Torment?
The soldier? The priest?
>>320206446
I hope you are right about Numenera anon. I hope so.
>>320206446
>They seem to be taking their time
They're taking TOO much fucking time.
The game was supposed to be released by 2014, as according to the kickstarter. Now they just keep fucking extending the release date everytime, with "promises" now of a late 2016. What the fuck?
>>320207068
And this is a bad thing......???
>>320205474
>>320205885
>>320206165
Alignment is a funny thing in DnD. Good, Evil, Law, and Chaos are fundamental forces in the universe. They are literally the building blocks of planes themselves, and the creatures that inhabit them, like angels, night hags, and succubi. Fall-From-Grace is literally MADE or evil and chaos, while Trias is literally MADE of law and good. It would seem impossible for them to turn away from their nature, but nonetheless they are beings with free will.
And natures can change. That is how Trias and Grace fell, and the reason for their suffering.
The fact that alignments are cosmic forces is why the Detect Evil spell works. It can't tell if any random schmuck off the street is evil or not, he doesn't have the divine essence of evil in him like a demon or an evil cleric. As a result, though, using Detect Evil on Fall-from-Grace would ping Evil, Law, and Chaos,and arguably Good toobecause she is a Lawful Neutral succubus with priest levels.
>>320206543
Durance and Grieving Mother.
>>320207954
Alright, I will make it far enough into the game to see grieving mother at least.
>>320207954
So he wrote for the two companions /v/ actually likes in that game? Exception is Eder but he is a bro not interesting like the other two.
>>320206165
xun zi was a christian?
>>320206232
Avellone wrote MotB? Damn, that is literally my favorite game. Kudos to him.
>>320184159
Cinematic games are fine, they just have to have substance to them.
alright so what was the most recent game released that is still considered a 'good' rpg.
non of this watered down appeal to mainstream fallout 4 shit
>>320208981
The lead writer for MotB was George Ziets, Avellone was one of the designers.
>>320209261
Divinity Original Sin is pretty well received and is pretty good for roleplaying
Wasteland 2 Director's Cut is pretty great in my opinion, though I'll admit it's a bit watered down compared to the original
>>320209261
I would say The Witcher series. Pillars of Eternity might also qualify, but I haven't played it yet so I won't judge.
