Quick tell me a legitimate flaw with this game without even using the word meme!
>>319818219
Cancer
it's not a game for starters
it's too short and I didn't find it funny.
>>319818219
it looks dated even though it was released a month or two ago
>>319818219
I have no complaints.
>>319818219
it's a pretentious piece of indie garbage
with overused "lel so random xD" humor
>>319819362
Want to go for the buzzword record, anon?
>>319819214
It's trying to follow the Earthbound legacy of looking crappier then its current gen games, but still able to take advantage of its software to create unheard of situations of the time.
how to fix undertale
Step 1:
>>319818219
you can't fuck the spider
>>319819362
Some of the game's jokes are more in-jokes and might be missed by those unsavvy, ex.Bepis being a swear word in mettaton's essay.
>>319818219
It relies to heavily on the characters for it to be good.
I would compare it to the Neptune games. People only play them for the characters and their interactions with one another. Game play is boring and not challenging in the slightest.
It's uninclusive towards black people.
randumb jokes
Too short
Poor RPG mechanics
Graphics are shit (I know graphics dont make a game, but these in particular just suck shit
Poor attempts at internet culture humor
meme game
>>319818219
MOVE
MOUSE
DODGE
BULLETS
WIN
GAME
READ
TEXT
CULT
FOLLOWING
EARTH
BOUND
2
D
>>319819579
Eat your greens, anon.
>>319819839
>internet culture humor
For one, it hardly made any references to real life jokes
Two, ALL internet culture is unfunny, so using the word "poor" is redundant
Too short
>>319818219the hivemind doesn't like it
>>319819767
even Earthbound had Mr. T.
>>319819859
i dont get how this is an insult i can do the same thing for literally any game
>>319818219
>Lackluster gameplay overall
>Lackluster story overall
>Pacifist ending made way too feelgood, gave some special snowflake shit "I can do anything if I put my mind to it!"
>Not enough content to justify multiple playthroughs
>Relies too heavily on me caring about characters I barely know outside of how they'd greet someone they just fucking met.
>Painfully average despite all the praise
And yes, the last one is a flaw if you're going to have the balls to compare it to AAA titles.
its one of those "internet cultural jokes that trys to be funny with overused ideas and forced humor" game
>>319819839
Forgot one. The fanbase is the eptiome of cancerous.
>>319818219
It discourages you from playing it again in-game, no matter which route you choose.
>>319819756
But who would actually think to type "bepis" if they didn't already know the joke?
>>319819507
>eldritch abomination time travel plot
>unheard situations of 1996
![1650341i[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/6uRRI2v.jpg "1650341i[1].jpg")
>>319820031
it's literally the YA of video games. Like, I'm sure my kids(tulpa) would love it, but as an adult...?
>>319818219
Black and white morality. False perception of moral choice existing when there's actually only one right answer as to how to play the game. Guilt tripping players directly for not finding this route.I actually still like it, though.
>>319820014
It's not an insult. It's the lowest effort list of things wrong with the game.
>>319819859
>MOUSE
>>319818219
meme
>>319820102
That only applies to post True Pacifist playthroughs though, unlessI am missing something.
>>319820162
I was referring to the fourth wall breaking
>"Anon started praying for the kids, having not met them before"
Boring banal gameplay with some stupid gimmick (dodging and dialogues, latter done better in smt former in actuals shmups). I couldn't bring myself to play this memegame past half an hour because it's something I've seen a hundred times already, now with shitty tumblr flavor. Thanks but no thanks.
>>319818219
It's too easy.
Even on Genocide, the challenge is lackluster.
>>319820354
Pacifist and Genocide both discourage replays in their own way, Neutral outright tells you to play it again for the better ending if you spare Flowey.
>>319818219
Having to use the arrow keys for movement after all other games using WASD, is uncomfortable as fuck.
Graphics are weak outside of some of the portraits, overworld is generally small and uninteresting.
I really liked the game otherwise.
>>319819859
>MOVE
>MOUSE
???
>>319820162
Earthbound was released in 1994 buddy
that does it
spotty spritework
some of the characters are just annoying
inconsistent pacing
clunky battle UI that always returns you to the wrong place
forces you to get endings in a certain order and fucks your save file if you don't do that
>>319819507
>justifying shitty graphics with >muh style
>>319820262
>>319820654
Yes. You move the mouse and it makes the game easier.
>>319820772
maybe crappy isn't the best word, but it goes for a more simplistic aesthetic then what is known for rpg's for the time. though I don't think Undertale does it as justly.
>>319818219
>Uninteresting setting
>Bland characters
>Boring theme
>Decent combat though
What do you like about it, OP?
>>319819839
>poor attempts at internet culture humor
The majority of 'internet culture' disagrees with you.
>that just means most of 'internet culture' has a shit opinion
Or
or
or
maybe you alone don't define what makes something funny and your singular opinion doesn't count for anyone else's
The majority of people that hate on Undertale do so having never played it, or, if they have played it, came into it ALREADY hating it.
On the opposite end, the fanbase is very vocal and this grates on people's nerves.
>BUT TUMBLR LIKES IT SO IT'S BAD
tumblr also likes A Link to the Past and Half Life. Does that make them shit games?
>MUH FN@F-TIER R34
Okami has r34 too. Does that make it a shit game?
>Muh graphix
It's significantly harder for indie titles to have high quality 3d models with 0 budget than it is with bitmaps
>Muh pacifist story I wanna kill everything!
Then kill everything, faggot. It's an RPG.
>Muh soundtra-
Nobody has ever tried to claim UT had a bad OST, and for good reason. Do not be the first.
It's a-ok to hate something. Just acknowledge your reasons for hating it are superficial and due to an effort to fit int to a counterculture than any real complaint with the work itself.
>THIS is why I hat UT! The fanbase is so high-and-mighty!
Not saying UT doesn't have flaws. There just is 100% no reason to hate it aside from the playerbase. It is not a bad game and you're treating it like it is one.
You can get that mad about Duke Nukem Forever. There is no reason at all to sperg out over an 8/10 game as hard as the ant-UTfags do.
TL:DR - Most people that hate UT hate the fanbase because of a perceived connection with 'uncool' groups like tumblr and mlp-fags and judge the game based off their pre-conceived notions, and that's gay.
>>319821162
>being this autistic
>>319821162
>This fucking mad.
Game isn't anything special outside of the indie spectrum dude.
If this game got published by Square enix no one would even bat a fucking eye at it.
>>319821162
Come on, son.
Undertale's graphics are shit even by indie standards.
I say this as a fan of the game.
>>319820954
N E V ER PLAYED T H E GAME
>I WATCH VIDEOS OF GAMEPLAY AND READ THE SYNOPSIS ON WIKIPEDIA TO SHITTALK THINGS I'VE NEVER PLAYED: THE POSTyou don't move with the mouse, friendowasd/gamepad
>>319821142
>Uninteresting setting
>Bland characters
Now you're just flat out lying. The characters are the best thing about the game and there's about a million people who agree with me.
I loved the game but it really is biased towards pacifism. Attacking is boring/repetitive, and most of the content is tied to going pacifist. Genocide run is basically a novelty for after you've finished the game properly and are willing to grind a bunch just to OHKO all but two bosses.
The battle system has a lot of potential and I would love for future games like it (by Toby or others) to make attacking more interesting. Maybe make it so you have to aim your attacks or something. Equip different weapons to get different speeds/hitboxes/etc.
>>319821384
Move mouse while using wasd
Holding shift has similar effect
Not sure if bad coding or focus mode
>>319821289
"I cant respond to any of your points so have this reply that shows I'm right and you're wrong."
>>319821291
All Squeenix would have to do if they published undertale is call it Final Fantasy VII.5 and people would eat it up and sing its praises having never played it just like they do FFVII.
>>319818219
Nothing wrong with the game, it is a great game. Problem is that it has characters that appeal to faggots like furries and shit. So it has a pretty cancerous fanbase.
>>319818219
Underbelly is straight outta tumblr.
>>319821472
Well the point of the game is that it's the only game where you don't have to kill anything to win so it'd make sense that attacking is boring.
>>319821634
>it's the only game where you don't have to kill anything to win
>>319821162
>The majority of 'internet culture' disagrees with you.
>thinks people are a homogenous group
You are part of a group majorly comprising of the lowest common denominator anon.
>Okami has r34 too. Does that make it a shit game?
Way to miss the point completely.
>>319821395
I suppose that wasn't fair of me. What I stated were opinions. I can only speak from my own perspective. So to rephrase:
>Setting that is uninteresting to a mature demographic.
>Characters that are bland and unfunny to anyone out of middle school.
>Theme that is unrelateable to adults.
I've gone over this in other threads. It's just a "2deep4you game for middle school kids".
A lot of people think that's an insult, but the 10-14 year old demographic is a fine age to go for. Like all those TV shows for 6 year olds, games can also be targeted at children.
I was merely saying the game falls very short of being satisfying for a mature audience.
>>319821679
Truly this is the worst thing ever
>>319821634
>it's the only game where you don't have to kill anything to win
Gay pandering.
>>319821634
You could still allow for full pacifist runs while also having more interesting attack mechanics.
If you're gonna have the option to go full genocide or even half genocide, attacking should be more interesting. Would also be nice to have more genocide run bosses too (Mettaton, Papyrus, etc).
>>319818219
Alphys stops hotland dead a million times and only like 1 out of every 10 things she says is legitimately funny.
She's a 1/10 character surrounded by 10/10 characters and it's right when players need such a hurdle the least.
>>319821634
You can complete Fallout: New Vegas without killing a single thing - same with many other games that offer non lethal takedowns.
But you are a retard, what would you know?
>>319818219
short, and very linear
>b-but multiple playthroughs with c-choices
Doesn't amount to much
It's
>kill all
>spare all
and
>neutral
That said, genocidist run wasn't satifying at all
>pass Undyne after 10 tries
>can't kill lesbo lizard
>Mettatron Neo is a boss fight that Toby couldn't be bothered enough to actually make a boss
>>319818219
That game is 2deep4me. Gone Home round 2.
>>319821717
Best pacifist game on the planet coming through.
things i enjoy about undertale:
- innovative blend of genres
- incredibly fleshed out world and narrative
- dialogue that is more fun and natural than it is given credit for
things i dislike about undertale:
- does not excel at any genre
- certain graphics are close to unacceptable by today's standards
- cakewalk (depending on the route)
others for both categories i'm sure
>>319822030
It is nothing like Gone Home
>>319822058
You kill plants in that game so no there is no pacifist mode in harvest moon.
>>319822030
These retards try way to hard they are better off reading a good book.
It's too easy and it's too short .
Also, shit like having to say the same thing to an enemy 20 times to defeat them peacefully is frustratingly non-intuitive. granted, it only happens at the very beginning and very end of the game, but still, it's a little excessive.
>>319820235
Actually I agree with this.
People often praise it for offering player agency through gamelan decisions, but it's pretty obvious it wants you to play it one way.
>>319820235
The game never guilt trips you for defending yourself.
The game doesn't trip over you if you kill enemies, or even toriel. You can literally kill every enemy in the game except one and you wont be treated as a demon. The exception here is the fact that if you're grinding in a game where you REALLY dont need to grind, you've discovered how to be a dick.
Alternatively if you ever kill Papyrus, you're a dick. He's the only boss in the game that actively spares YOU instead of the other way around. There's no way to accidentally kill Papyrus. If you kill him, your morality system IS black or white. Even killing Toriel is forgivable.
>>319822108
As in thumblr fest round 2.
>>319821634
>it's the only game where you don't have to kill anything to win
>>319822241
>pacifist
>a person who believes that war and violence are unjustifiable.
>implying selling tomatoes at a stand in town qualifies as "war and violence".
Calm down Tumblr. We're all friends here.
>>319822339
As I said, nothing like Gone Home.
>>319822373
>>319821895
>>319821717
Okay, fuck. I know how anal you faggots are about syntax.
It's A game where you don't have to kill anything to win.
Except for asgore on your first run.
>>319822006
>You can complete Fallout: New Vegas without killing a single thing
So basically if you run straight to Yes Man, talk to all the necessary faction NPCs, tell Yes Man to leave all the factions alone, and then pass some speech checks at Hoover Dam, avoiding every enemy encounter all the while? I should try that sometime.
>>319822429
>pacifist
>a person who believes that war and violence are unjustifiable.
>Violence
Are you implying planticide isn't murder? Are you implying murder isn't violent?
>>319822568
>Except for asgore on your first run.
Hey now, he died, but iirc I didn't do it.
>>319822612
Oh yeah and disable Mr. House without killing him.
My biggest issue was the length. The game tries to make it feel like a long journey, especially at the end, but you only visited a few other places.
>>319818219
Alphys
>>319818219
Alphys.
>>319822706
That's like running from undyne but not giving her the water.
It's murder. Arguably worse murder than killing them yourself.
>>319822316
>The game never guilt trips you for defending yourself.
actually the first real fight in the game kind of gives you the shaft with the health bar suddenly dropping to 0 on a normal attack when it shouldn't, and at that point you've already fucked up.
>>319822006
callin' me a retard while you post that tsunshit asuka
tisk tisk anonymous
>>319822624
>Implying planticide is even an english word.
>Implying the suffix -icide, meaning to murder or kill even applies to plants
>The concept literally doesn't exist
Sorry anon, but the english language seems to discredit your stance here. Why stop trying to smear the reputation of great games, huh?
>>319818219
ALPHYS IS SO FUCKING ANNOYING HOLY SHIT
HER STUPID FUCKING CALLS ARTIFICALLY MAKE THE HOTLANDS LONGER THAN THEY FUCKING NEED TO BE. IT'S SO FUCKING ANNOYING HOLY SHIT. WHY CAN'T YOU KILL HER?
>>319822926
That's not really a guilt trip. If you're fighting Toriel and you kill her, I mean, that's sort of exactly what she was talking about.
As long as it's not Genocide, basically all you were doing was what she told you to do. Besides, along with Asgore, it was essentially suicide.
She knew you were going to be the seventh human to see the underground, and that the monsters wouldnt stop at killing you. If she let you go, you were going to die. It's why she made you kill her intentionally, she didnt want you to die, so she made you stronger instead.
Succumbing to a martyr does not make you a bad person, anon. Forgive those who havent the strength to forgive themselves.
>>319820954
Hold on, you can do what now?
>>319818219
Inconsistent sprite detail.
Some of the stuff is ok and some of it is outright ugly and just cheap.
However, this did not make me like the game any less.
>>319823073
Just mash ZXZXZXZXZXZXZXZXZXZXZXZXZX the whole way, makes it easier
>>319819449
OP didn't say "don't use buzzwords" he said "don't use meme". And just because words are used often, doesn't make them illegitimate.
>>319822979
>Kill
>cause the death of (a person, animal, or other living thing).
So you think plants aren't living organisms? You think that plants are some sort of necromancer magic?
You can most certainly kill plants, and that is exactly what you do in Harvest Moon.
Killing=Violence
Violence≠Pacifism
You kill, you can't be a pacifist.
>>319823216
IT'S STILL FUCKING STUPID AS FUCK
I DON'T CARE ABOUT HER STUPID AUTIST BULLSHIT. SHE LIKES ANIME AND IS A FUCKING NEET. I DON'T GIVE A SHIT
THE WORST CHARACTER IN A GAME PLAGUED WITH SHITTY CHARACTERS
>>319822612
There are plenty of quests that do not involve any combat. GI Blues, really almost all of the freeside or Strip quests. You can do the Repcon ghouls one if you have high sneak and are crafty with a stealth boy. You can get primm a new sheriff without ever actually doing anything else.
>>319823128
>Succumbing to a martyr does not make you a bad person, anon.
lol.. i think we're both on very different pages. this game had zero emotional effect on me.
i'm just saying you're meant to feel guilty about it. the game is emotionally manipulative. later on Sans speaks to you about it so you are explicitly reminded.
my problem right from the beginning was that Toriel was too nice. i didn't trust her, so i had no qualms with fighting her. i was shocked that a grown woman would die fighting a child she could have easily killed. if anything i thought she was simply going to give up and let me pass.
but she dies? absolutely absurd. it was all pretty much downhill from there.
eventually i just wiped all the appdata and started over and played the game "correctly" so i could get the ending it wants you to get.
>>319818219
Decent game
Shitty fanbase
Hit-Or-Miss porn
>>319823810
>Shitty fanbase
>Hit-Or-Miss porn
You are the shitty fanbase though.
>>319823883
>>319823368
Only violence if the intent is malicious or intended to cause pain.
>You can be violent without killing
>You can kill without being violent
>pic related, apparently a surgeon that tries to save someone's life and fails is a violent murderer.
>>319823767
It sounds like you're a real blast to play games or watch movies with.
The game does very little to lead the player with the obvious exception of it being a very linear game. Flowey taunts you all game into feeling like shit because he knows if you get a perfect ending (He taunts you because he knows you're a game player) that he will become the ultimate final boss.
No one, not even sans with the obvious exception of if you kill his brother, tries to manipulate the player. They're either with you or against you. The only person manipulating you is Flowey, because that's what he does.
He goads you if you go pacifist, he taunts you if you go neutral, and he gives you hints if you go genocide- all leading to HIS intentions.
I understand your distrust of Toriel, a lot of people didnt either, but her character makes sense. She's SUPPOSED to be this overbearing protective mother almost like the fabled "Witch in the woods" who gets kids fat and then eats them. All the dusty toys, broken crayons, pies, and shoes of disparaging sizes are MEANT to make you distrust her. Same with Azgore's Coffin. It had your name on it, and it's empty: It's meant to trick the player into thinking Asgore is a dick.
If you think this is all the game being emotionally manipulative, I just think you're being an unfunny person.
Cut content
>>319821162
Don't give this gentleman anymore (You)'s
>>319824416
Explain nigga
>>319824286
You reap a plant with the intent to kill it, a surgeon doesn't cut you open with that same idealogy.
The majority of people don't recognize that although plants aren't sentient or even creatures that can process thought. They are still living beings that can die, and be murdered by people.
You may say if it is a brainless being that only exists because it can absorb nutrients it isn't really worth thinking about. But when the Shroomians of the moon come back to bring the thoughts back into their kin once more, I can guarentee we will be thinking a lot differently of plantkin then.
>>319824341
what's funny about it?
also how is Asgore not a dick? at the very least he's an morally reprehensible and an incompetent leader.
i just didn't get the impression Toriel wasn't meant to be trusted because the collective fanbase tends to feel extremely bad after killing her. why would you feel bad about killing someone you didn't trust? because of what's revealed later? that's implying that she actually does know what's best for you.
i think the main problem is that i'm just not part of the intended target audience of this game. this game preys on the fragile and overly sensitive. people who can more easily relate to things that appear non-human on the surface (when in fact their culture is conveniently entirely borrowed from humans).
but just because i don't like Undertale doesn't mean i'm no fun, silly anon. there are plenty of games and films i enjoy. Undertale is not one of them. i know it's hard to believe, but nothing will be universally liked, not even your favorite vidya.
>>319824667
>Surgeon doesn't cut you open with the same ideology
>But what about euthanizing pets in the most gentle and painless way possible. Are those doctors still violent murderers?
>Also implying farmers reap plants with the intent to kill them, despite the fact that consumption of food is clearly the goal not simply ending the plant's life.
>Implying the pursuit of the most fundamental biological process, consuming organic matter, is somehow reprehensible.
Tumblr, please stop posting.
>>319821162
Wow man, you're really going for it, but I have to say
>Okami has r34 too. Does that make it a shit game?
was a shit point because, it's not that it does have r34 of it, it's the amount of it in such a short span of time is the problem.
>It's significantly harder for indie titles to have high quality 3d models with 0 budget than it is with bitmaps
That's no excuse, there was hardly any effort put into making it pretty at all, in comparison with games like crawl, lisa, and gunpoint, the game looks rather bland.
And for the rest, you simply spat out. Seemed pretty pathetic since the anon you were replying to didn't mention half of the points you were attempting to counter.
>>319825256
>completely ignores the most significant part of my last post
>>319824894
>also how is Asgore not a dick? at the very least he's an morally reprehensible and an incompetent leader.
Morally reprehensible? Perhaps. He backed us into an ultimatum, fitting neatly into Flowey's little time table. "Kill or be killed." Incompetent leader? That's left to the beholder. He did what he thought would be best for his kingdom. 7 human souls = freedom, and the underground hates humans again. Asgore is a sad tragic character because his own morals are buried under the weight of his crown. His entire fight was suicide as was Toriel's.
>why would you feel bad about killing someone you didn't trust? because of what's revealed later? that's implying that she actually does know what's best for you.
It's almost like you don't realize that's the POINT of this entire game's overarching theme; Determination. You're supposed to feel bad about killing her LATER, because you, as the player, have the ability to go back in time and make the kinds of choices that no one had the chance to in hindsight. You understand at least this, yes?
>i think the main problem is that i'm just not part of the intended target audience of this game. this game preys on the fragile and overly sensitive.
It's a feely game. Is the game supposed to lose points for that? I'll of course have to agree with you, this game is not for everyone. As the days go on and I hear more non-shitposting testimonies from people who disliked the game, I'm getting a broader and more realistic depiction of this game's playerbase.
>i know it's hard to believe, but nothing will be universally liked, not even your favorite vidya.
I'm not trying to get you to like Undertale, I'm trying to get you to understand why everyone likes it, while you try to get me to understand why you DONT like it. We're both after the same thing I think.
The game looks like absolute fucking dogshit.
someone else dump skeleton porn
I'm too tired
>>319826110
That's the only flaw everyone can agree with
>>319825652
>Plants are obviously alive, assuming that was your most important point. That or the space alien drivel.
> murder being defined as the unlawful killing of one human being by another.
>aka, plants cannot be murdered.
>LITERALLY tumblr.gif
>its actually going to beat super mario 64
I really liked undertale, but seriously fuck this
>>319824575
Hard mode (wasn't guaranteed anyway)
Fun/Gaster (probably wasn't supposed to be integral to the game, but who knows)
Can't marry the robot (you lied to the backers you fuck)
>>319821395
>Now you're just flat out lying. The characters are the best thing about the game and there's about a million people who agree with me.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum
>>319826703
Okay, I guess since you oppose the majority, that instantly makes you right. That argument only works if that one out of a million is correct.
>>319826456
The Plantocaust will never end senpai.
>>319827069
what are you talking about? the argument presented for "Undertale has good characters" was "A lot of other people think so too!", which is the definition of the bandwagon fallacy.
>>319827401
That's only true if said bandwagon is false.
Everyone thinks that water is made up of two hydrogens and one oxygen.
If some idiot comes along saying that water has a carbon atom in it, everyone would ignore him. He is simply wrong.
>>319818219
Can't run
>>319827081
>Plantsect Village
>>319825716
>It's almost like you don't realize that's the POINT of this entire game's overarching theme; Determination. You're supposed to feel bad about killing her LATER, because you, as the player, have the ability to go back in time and make the kinds of choices that no one had the chance to in hindsight. You understand at least this, yes?
how could anyone not? it's shoved into your face at every possible moment. i just thought it fell flat.
>this game is not for everyone
>I'm trying to get you to understand why everyone likes it
i'm confused. you can't believe both of these things at the same time
the main reason i didn't like Undertale is that i didn't relate to any of the characters. the game wants to take itself seriously when it feels like it but then falls right back into meta humor and wackiness, delights itself on sending the player into dead ends and punishes you with unfunny jokes for doing anything outside of its linear story.
many people say "oh, well if you don't like the characters, you can just kill everyone and play the genocide route!" no thanks, the combat system is underdeveloped and (in my opinion) the opposite of fun.
so i went the pacifist route. the ending was so cheesy i was audibly laughing at the bits with Asriel. there's so many contradictions and everything is simply written off with "power of love" aka determination. on the whole it's shoddily written and you can tell that it was done in fragmented pieces. it becomes even more obvious when you notice that the graphics sometimes quickly go from decent pixel art to absolute shit. for how short it is the game is really an inconsistent mess.
not to mention the worst character of the game is front and center during the most boring part (Alphys/Hotlands).
there were two things i liked in the game. Sans, who was the only well-written character, and the True Lab, which was genuinely creepy. all things said it was an average game at best.
>>319827679
no, because you can prove (to a reasonable extent) that water is comprised of h2o using facts and research. if your child asked how water was made up of 2 hydrogen and 1 oxygen, you wouldn't say "well most people think it is, so that's why."
>>319825269
>it's the amount of it in such a short span of time is the problem.
Why?
>>319818219
This retarded bitch. I could take Papyrus and Sans silly humour, but this cunt was just plain annoying.
The dumb anime references.
Bullet hell for mentally handicapped people.
The ugly visuals, Snowdin was literally the only area in the game that didn't look like shit.
Game has only three good bosses, and fighting two of them will give you the worst possible ending.
>>319828078
Well, since you can't prove that the characters from this game are good or bad from research, then it's an entirely subjective matter and thus, the "bland characters" argument is null and void as it is your personal opinion.
>>319827964
>i'm confused. you can't believe both of these things at the same time
Mostly because they're not mutually exclusive.
I know you dont like it, but I'm trying to shed light on why other people actually DO. It's not only proper conversation, it's only possible to do this if you DONT like undertale, otherwise I'd mostly just be talking to myself.
>there's so many contradictions and everything is simply written off with "power of love" aka determination.
Within the game's canon, Frisk beating Asriel and Chara killing the game are both within the possibility of action.
Frisk gains power as you are nice to people, Chara gains power as you kill people. Chara takes over when the text is red, Frisk takes over when the text is misspelled.
Examples of misspelling being "Sword's" or "THen shE Kisses YOu" both only possible to see within a pacifism playthrough, while red text is only possible within a Genocide Playthrough. "Where are the knives?"
Frisk's Determination makes him borderline invincible, Chara's Determination (ours) makes him able to destroy the entire world.
Once again, it may be cheesy, it may be feely, but it's still a fun little game.
>not to mention the worst character of the game is front and center during the most boring part (Alphys/Hotlands).
You'll get no argument from me or anyone else who liked Undertale.
>there were two things i liked in the game. Sans, who was the only well-written character, and the True Lab, which was genuinely creepy. all things said it was an average game at best.
Hey average is great. This game LOOKS like absolute dogshit and took $0 to make, so even average is great. I loved it, a lot of other people did too, but I know that when people say they dont like it they are not trolling. Though you could have been a bit more receptive back there. We're all friends here, bud.
The game tries to make you feel bad for killing Undyne.
A.K.A., a full-grown adult trying to skewer a small child with a spear, even if they haven't hurt anyone.
What a load of shit.
>>319828724
A small evil child who is a walking army trampling over numerous people it has the option of giving mercy to, and literally committing genocide in the process.
>>319828884
Yeah, if you're a Genocide runner, I can understand her hostility.
But even if you never hurt a fly she still treats you like Satan. And you still get sad music and guilt-tripping if you manage to kill her.
>>319828474
equally so is the "good characters" argument, by that metric.
>>319829102
Well then I guess we're back to square one.
>tfw plantkin
all this chlorophobia is triggering me, send help.
>>319828884
>Pacifist run
>Literally save a monster kid right in front of her eyes
>She still attack me
>She won't accept my mercy
>Somewhat I am the villain if I kill her
Nah, bullshit.
>>319818219
1. shorter than 5 hours
2. easy
3. ugly graphics
4. ugly main character
5. ugly and repetitive environments
6. shallow, non-sensical mechanics
7. Homestuck tier designs
There, 7 flaws I came up with off the top of my head in under 2 minutes.
>>319829008
Because killing you means freedom for her entire people.
>>319818219
Tumblr
>>319829008
She's a lawful Neutral character. She serves her Monarch to her dying breath, until you spare her life. Not just 'Not attacking' but literally "Sparing her life."
She's like Asgore, except she doesn't literally kill your mercy button.
And is someone dying not supposed to sound sad? She doesn't want to die. That music isn't for you, it's for her. You KILLED her. You cant let it be a little sad?
"Oh damn this game for playing sad music when I kill a woman whose only goal is to save her people." Obvious exaggeration aside, undyne is not evil. She can literally become your friend.
You dont kill your friends.
>inb4 "But how did I KNOW she would be my friend?!"
Nigger you literally have the power to reload and try again. With that kind of responsibility, once you're aware of that power, you're not in ANY danger from ANYONE who doesn't strike through the fourth dimension.
Is she kind of a bitch? MAYBE. Was she killed by someone who can literally fuck space and time sideways and generally doesn't play fair? Yes.
>>319818219
it's shit.
>>319829352
All of these are subjective except for 1 and 2.
Also no reason to include 1 since it's dirt cheap anyways.
>>319829370
Freedom? Freedom from what?
The Underground isn't some hellhole. There's a stable economy. Livable settlements in a variety of conditions. Snowy, cave, hot, and probably more.
And even so, on a Pacifist Run she still has no remorse in murdering a small child. At least Asgore makes it clear this is the last thing he wants to do. Undyne gives zero fucks.
>>319829418
>She doesn't want to die.
Well neither does fucking Frisk, but she doesn't care. There's no reason to feel sympathy for a would-be child murderer just because she can be your friend.
>>319829418
Is this a pasta?
>>319829584
People tell you that the Underground is running out of space real fast and most food has to be brought in from the capital. Also several characters express wanting to see the sky and the stars.
And Undyne doesn't actually understand what a human is; I'm not even sure if she understands that you're a child. All she really knows is that you're a human and not only were humans responsible for driving monsters underground, but her king (who she is fiercely loyal to) needs a human soul to set them all free.
>>319820174
>I'm sure my kids(tulpa) would love it
> actually having a tulpa
anon what the shit
>>319829584
>>319829584
>Freedom? Freedom from what?
The Underground
>The Underground isn't some hellhole.
and? Did you stay with Toriel? Her home isnt a hellhole either
>>319829542
Actually they're all subjective, and being subjective doesn't disqualify any of them. It just means I have better taste than you.
>Also no reason to include 1 since it's dirt cheap anyways.
Cost makes no fucking difference. It's super short, which makes ANY so-called build up in the story and potential for attachment to the characters non-existent. I look at anyone who acts like they love the characters and find them to be head-canon obsessed imbeciles because there's not enough fucking time to get attached to anything in the game.
>>319829418
>You KILLED her. You cant let it be a little sad?
>Self defense is the same as murder
Shut the fuck up.
>>319829881
There's no fucking option to stay with Toriel. I mean, technically you can just fuck about The Ruins, but the story will never progress unless you want to leave.
I swear you Undertale defenders are fucking autistic.
>>319829896
>admits that it's all subjective but still claims his taste is superior
Are you that conceited?
>>319818219
The battle system just isn't that fun and relies in too many gimmicks
>>319828721
>I know you dont like it, but I'm trying to shed light on why other people actually DO.
i think i get why people do like it. most of my friends like it. they emotionally resonated with the characters. i didn't. i think it's as simple as that.
>Frisk gains power as you are nice to people, Chara gains power as you kill people. Chara takes over when the text is red, Frisk takes over when the text is misspelled.
i didn't know this. i mean, i knew at the end i was actually Frisk. but not the other stuff. i only played the game properly once and i'm not interested in doing it again. i'm not really sure what you mean by the 'text misspelled' examples, though. i probably just don't remember it.
>This game LOOKS like absolute dogshit and took $0 to make, so even average is great.
actually it cost around $50k to make judging by the kickstarter the developer made a few years ago. some of the art looks alright but it's rather inconsistent.
>I loved it, a lot of other people did too, but I know that when people say they dont like it they are not trolling. Though you could have been a bit more receptive back there.
there were parts and characters i genuinely disliked. but i can't say i liked it, either. average to me is a 5/10. definitely something i'd never recommend. but i didn't -hate- it if that's what you mean.
>>319830026
>There's no fucking option to stay with Toriel
yeah there is, just dont leave. You left because you wanted to see what else the world has to offer. As do the monsters when they want to leave the Underground
>I swear you Undertale defenders are fucking autistic.
ok
>>319829736
There is no intention of survival. A bandaged child climbed up "Suicide Mountain" and fell into the realm of the monsters. Death is a mercy at this point, but that's besides the point:
How or why do you care? You're POSSESSING Frisk.
>>319829745
No.
>>319829992
I never said you murdered her. I said you killed her. Because you did.
No one will treat you like a monster for killing Undyne, not even Sans.
>>319830182
You and I both know it didn't take 50 thousand dollars to make Undertale.
A goal of 50 thousand dollars was set, it was not required.
Other than that, I mostly agree with the rest of your post. This chain of responses has gone on long enough, let's end it.
>>319830225
>No
Then you are either austic or not from this board.
>>319830507
What, someone is not allowed to make a long post without being autistic?
Sorry if my typing + reading comprehension/patience is limited to one or two sentences. By all means, ignore me.
>>319830216
Why not play Mario 64 where Mario doesn't give a shit about Peach? There's an option, just don't save her.
There's an option for Zelda for Link to have a horse fetish. Just have him literally do nothing but ride Epona.
There's an option for Travis to refuse to leave his house. Just don't leave.
Your argument is retarded.
It's reminiscent of Richard Dawkins' 1976 work "The Selfish Gene".
>>319830712
No one said not to leave Toriel's house
I was making a point as to why the monsters want to leave. Your reasoning was that there is nothing wrong with the underground, therefore the monsters had no reason to want to leave. To which I replied there is nothing wrong with Toriel's house, so you had no reason to leave, according to your logic anyways. My point is that just because a place isnt bad doesnt mean you dont want to leave.
I merely used an experience I know you had because you played the game, thinking you would be smart enough to recognize that I was helping you understand that people like to explore, which is why the monsters want to leave. Not that I actually think that you should stay with Toriel.
>>319831538
Well, there is one reason to leave.
Wanting to go home to your family and stuff.
A small child would probably want that.
>>319831658
are you a small child? You arent Frisk, you control Friso. You have no emotional connection to Frisk's parents, they arent even shown in the game as far as I remember.
Undertale tries so hard to remind you of Earthbound. You receive the Cellphone within the first hour of gameplay, which is your primary means of communication and item retrieval. The Temmie village is a wholesale rip-off of the Saturn Village. The trivialization of encounters (since so few bosses or big encounters exist in the game, many are resolved in ways that even the game doesn't condition you for if doing pacificist run). The "humor" is heavily reliant on non-sequitur and meta-humor more similar to the disgaea series than earthbound. It's disruptive and doesn't help build the setting despite trying to be a game about "the feels".
Speaking of world building. The monsters aren't defined as a race. Most of the Npcs are each a different animal/humanoid hybrid. The game tries to motivate you in protecting "special snowflake" otherkin or otherwise guilt you for killing them and give you a shitty neutral ending. On the neutral ending boss, the game visually shits itself into looking like meme run and flowey's trollface as the cherry on top. It's like the writing doesn't care about its own setting and would rather you just focus on its "quirky" cast than its gaping narrative holes.
The protagonist is charactized solely by your actions and the Npcs. It's contemporary Earthbound did characterize Ness, with barely any dialogue we know from his equipment he's just an average kid who likes sports, toys, and, on occasion, misses his mom. It's minor but colorizes an otherwise blank slate. Undertale makes no effort in this, even the character's gender is ambiguous, and this is to place more emphasis on the "snowflakes" you observe throughout the game.
Overall, the derivative humor, otherkin subtext/context, reliance on Mother series, detract from what could be solid ideas. A save scumming antagonist, using actions and items exclusively to negotiate combat, and having the game "remember" your actions. Unfortunately it's cancer. Kill it with fire.
>>319831898
I know I'm not Frisk.I know I'm controlling them. I'm saying that Frisk wanting to leave Toriel's house is perfectly reasonable.
why are the graphics so inconsistent. half of it looks fine, half of it looks shitty. why. just make it one or the other.
>>319818219
I liked it, but the gameplay is the absolute bare minimum. It's less of a game than the Ace Attorney games. Graphics work better as an homage to the Mother series than a legitimate artstyle, and they range from barely adequate to noticeably crude. Given how much people are gushing about it, someone will probably publish a mod that gives the game better graphics.
I think that the game is less about plot and storyline per se and is more about style and uses plot elements such as lore, characters, etc. as accessories to that, but the game's plot isn't terribly dynamic and the characters are shallow, however charming they may be.
>>319832260
Kids dont use reason. Also you're not Frisk. You're possessing Frisk, making all of his decisions for him.
>>319820074
So it is essentially a meme?
>>319832260
But Im not talking about Frisk, Im talking about you as a player. Meaning what you said is irrelevant
>>319832104
>looking this deep into a fictional game made for entertainment
shaking my head, to be honest, family
>>319831538
No you idiot.
You as a player have motivation to leave because you're playing a goddamn video game, and even if you tried to stay the ruins offer you as a player literally nothing to do.
The characters in the game need in-universe explanations for wanting to leave, and they have them, but the point is your comparison is dumb.
>>319818219
cant murder alphys
>>319832104
>Most of the Npcs are each a different animal/humanoid hybrid.
i liked the game, but this annoyed the shit out of me actually. made the game feel like such a mess.
>>319819507
>actually comparing undermeme to earthbound
Jesus mcfucking christ
>>319832417
>this is what tumblr really believes
learn to separate fantasy from reality and then consider suicide
>>319832817
Are you stupid or just incredibly high on concentrated memes?
The player is controlling Frisk. Frisk literally doesn't make even one decision in this game so long as the player has control. That's common post-game knowledge.
>>319832104
>NPCs are various beast races/surrealistic cartoon animals
>otherkin subtext/context
I don't even like Undertale, but I implore you to commit prompt suicide. Your brain has been damaged beyond repair by 4chan culture wars.
>>319832809
Earthbound is a painfully mediocre game at best though.
>>319832104
>going into a game trying your absolute hardest to find tumblr shit
>there's nothing there, so you're just jumping at shadows, calling them "darknesskin" and the like
This is fucking embarrassing anon.
Please stop.
>its gaping narrative holes
Just list some. This would be a far greater condemnation of the game than the wall of tumblr paranoia you've produced.
>>319832954
I think you're the one that's high m8, video games aren't real.
'frisk' isn't real.
>>319832104
>BUT THAT'S JUST A THEORY
>>319832954
>Frisk literally doesn't make even one decision in this game so long as the player has control
play the genocide route again, nerd.
>>319833171
This entire conversation isn't real.
>>319832646
>You as a player have motivation to leave because you're playing a goddamn video game
why does playing a video game automatically make you feel as if you need to continue? You continued because you are interested in the rest of game, just like the monsters are interested in the rest of the game. You dont feel a need to continue a video game just because you played it. Im sure you played plenty of games which you grew tired of and then stopped. The ones you remained interested in you continued to play. The comparison is fine.
>>319818219
Its community.
>>319833289
That's Chara. Not Frisk.
This is basic shit here, bro. Also who are you calling nerd, nerd?
>>319833226
what the fuck was that guy supposed to be other than an excuse for the artists to draw dick nose?
that show had such an unsettling style.
>>319833394
>why do you feel the need to turn the page of a book when you finish reading the current page?
This does not deserve a real response.
Instead, enjoy this unrelated picture.
>>319833640
post moar misty
>>319833640
Are you saying you continue to read books that you have no interest in? You never stopped doing something because you were bored of it? Thats amazing, but not believable
>>319833485
I'm not one to hate a game because of the people that do (or do not) like it, but it's a little saddening to know that I can never expect good conversation of it on the Internet ever again.
I had a good time with it. I suppose that will have to be enough.
>>319833831
Not playing/reading is not a form of engaging with the media in question, unless there are cool easter eggs like The End dying.
Dropping the game in the ruins just means you didn't give a fuck about playing the game, not that you wanted to stay with Toriel or whatever.
>OFF is a pseudophilosophical indie RPG that has a massive, autistic tumblr following
>/v/ likes it
>Undertale is a pseudophilosophical indie RPG that has a massive, autistic tumblr following
>/v/ shits the bed
Why is this?
>>319834451
OFF was never popular enough to get major backlash.
>>319834451
One is popular, the other is not.
/v/ is literally contrarian.
>>319834451
>>319834624
>>319834686
Also OFF is free.
Hard to get mad at freeware.
>>319834624
>>319834686
OFF is/was popular enough to get a fair amount of cosplay, ask blogs, and several fan games
I guess it was just lucky to come out at a time when /v/ wasn't completely consumed by culture wars and trying to detect tumblr in everything
>>319834137
>Dropping the game in the ruins just means you didn't give a fuck about playing the game, not that you wanted to stay with Toriel or whatever.
I never said that, reread
I said the exact opposite in the first line actually
>>319831538
Better yet, sober up before trying to talk with people so you dont confuse a rhetorical question for a real one
>>319818219
pixeltrash
NO FLAWS NO FLAWS NO FLAWS NO FLAWS
>>319818219
is p prehistoric for being pc only
it doesnt have mouse ui
is not portable on cellphones
>>319834832
this, and OFF never directly pandered to the tumblr crowd
having the judge's brother have a girl's name is the closest thing to tumblr pandering that was in off.
and off was basically mental illness: the game so no wonder tumblr loves it.
>>319834980
The motivation to continue playing a game or continue reading a book or continue watching a movie is not comparable to a desire to leave your current home and go into the unknown.
There is no relation whatsoever.
That's all I'm saying.
The NEO "fight."
>>319830436
it didn't cost $0, either.
chris sawyer made rollercoaster tycoon 2 by himself. in x86 assembly. 16 years ago. he got paid 30 million for it.
toby? who? did he work for notch or something?
>>319835876
and his 20 second theme
One of the main flaws I found was that the challenge is never consistent. The game is overflowing that much in satire of RPG games it ends up feeling like it has little to do with RPG games itself as all of its elements have been toned down to get you faster to the ending: The puzzles generally solve themselves or can be bypassed entirely, the combat system while being particularly clever with having bullet-hell type gameplay isn't particularly difficult. Fights in general are boring as enemies can be killed/pacified in usually one or two turns.
The bosses are the only time when the challenge jumps but right after there's a huge dip in difficulty because the enemies in the following area are easy to read. Compare that to a game like Final Fantasy, the dip isn't generally that great and the game introduces newer challenges.
The game does well on its own regardless because it has charm, whether you're a fan of the 80's/90's old style or the games it's parodying. It's an OK quality.
If the game took less time distracting you with going on dates with characters as it could with intoducing more into its gameplay with newer elements I'd be sated.
>>319835947
By Jeopardy rules, I was the closest without going over.
>>319835561
In both situations you are leaving the known (Toriels house in your case/Underground in the monsters' case) into the unknown (Underground in your case/Surface in the monsters' case)
I dont understand how you dont see that parellel. Its very simple.
