https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQ0tEZup-Qc
Is this series worth playing on Steam, bros?
I can't tell you about the Steam versions, but I've played the first two games on the Playstation and they're pretty great, so unless the PC versions have some weird issues, it should still be good.
>>319585885
PC version of 1 has horrible audio issues.
>>319585817
Emulate the first one. Buy the rest
Why would you get them on steam when they're on gog
I've played through every game in the series, scattered over the years, except for the first Blood Omen. It just didn't seem to hold my interest for long in terms of gameplay, but I never played more than an hour or two. What am I missing out on, relative to the other games?
.>>319585817
If you love games that are HEAVILY focused on storytelling and can stand the old graphics, then absolutely.
>>319586248
Completely different type of gameplay. That's about it
They're really outdated and pretty mediocre in terms of gameplay
Fucking great storytelling and voice acting
Worth a watch, if not a play.
I've only finished Blood Omen and Soul Reaver so far, so if the answer to this comes up in another game please just tell me that.What's Mortanius' deal? If he knew killing Ariel would push Nupraptor off the deep end and warp everybody's minds, what did he stand to gain from that?
I've been thinking about the plot these days and realized I don't really understand some story elements that are pretty damn significant. I'd be grateful if someone with a better grasp on the plot can either confirm or correct the following
Spoilers for anyone who hasn't played through the series fully yet by the way
1. How exactly do the demons and Demon Realm fit into the whole ordeal? Why are they targeting you throughout the series?
I've always that it was very much implied that they were under Elder God's command since they appear almost exclusively when the Elder God renounces you. But really, there's no confirmation on this and if they are a different faction altogether it just makes no sense.
2. What exactly does the destruction of the pillars cause?
Alright, so they are pretty clearly the device to imprison the Hylden, but how exactly does that decay the world itself? The explanation for this I found is that the world is already decaying with the mere presence of the Elder God as a parasite on the land, but really, did the starting point of his greater corruption really start in the instant when Ariel is assassinated?
You can concretely say it was all a ruse by Elder God to further spread across the land, but doesn't that come off to you as some VERY convenient timing?
3. Among the current games, at what point does the timeline end?
If we take into account that BO2 and Kain defeating Hylden Lord was one major battle on his path to creating his Empire, ending with SR and finishing that particular plot branch, where would the entry point for Dark Prophecy be? I've heard in one of these threads that Kain using the Soul Reaver at the dial of the pillars to finally purify Nosgoth and finishing off Elder God would've been the plot
I have one more question about Elder God but I don't know if I can phrase it properly, I could try
Soul reaver 1? yes. if you've never played it before it is a fantastic action adventure with top-notch voice acting. make sure you play with a playstation-like controller if getting on steam. Soul reaver 2? yes but only if you want to see more plot- gameplay slightly less satisfying though still decent. Defiance? pretty good get especially if you like soul reaver 1 and 2. Blood omen 1? emulate it- it's not even illegal to do so and it's pretty cool. Blood omen 2? it's alright but never spend more than a couple of quid on it
>>319586248
If you have no intention of playing, here's the basic jist of what happened in BO1
>Vorador kills the majority of the Circle while Malek takes forever to come help them (but as you saw near the end of Soul Reaver 2, it was only because Moebius had him stay by his side while he had a chat with Raziel)
>Mortanius, possessed by the Hylden Lord, kills the Balance Guardian Ariel
>Nupraptor in his grief over her death curses the Circle, including Kain who had recently been born as the next Balance Guardian
>Kain newly turned into a vampire by Mortanius (by shoving Janos Audron's heart into your chest), is told to murder the now-crazy circle members
>Kain does this for a while, eventually gets involved in a war between the good King Ottmar and the evil warlord king known as the Nemesis
>Ottmar is killed and his army slaughtered when you rally them against the Nemesis
>Kain finds a way 50 years back in time, decides to kill William the Just before he ever grows up to be the Nemesis
>Kain kills him, both wielding a Soul Reaver thanks to Moebius shenanigans
>he returns to his own time, Moebius turned William into a martyr as the kind boy king killed by a vampire, leads a genocide against the vampires, Vorador is killed
>Kain kills Moebius
>Mortanius transforms into a Hylden, reveals the man who had that body as been dead for years
>you kill Mortanius's body so the Hylden Lord is banished to his dimension
>Kain has a choice: save the world or rule over it in ruins
>he chooses the latter
>the end
>>319587490
See above
>>319587570
>since they appear almost exclusively when the Elder God renounces you
Not true, they also are in that shitty future
>>319587620
>Soul reaver 1? yes. if you've never played it before it is a fantastic action adventure with top-notch voice acting
Neverending block puzzles though, like all Eidos games at the time.
>>319586248
the entire backstory of Defiance and part of the SR2 story details
>>319585817
Yup, it's quite a unique setting with a good story, good writing and some top-notch voice-acting.
The game also plays quite well, the momentum feels unique and there's a good deal of care in the animations, so it's quite satisfying to play.
If nothing else, play it because there's not much else like it and it really still holds up, in many respects.
I only ever played a demo, when it came out, but I played it last year and had a good time with it.
I actually replayed through this series recently. Well, 90% of them. I just watched LeadingManAE's LP for Blood Omen 2, because fuck that game. I played throught it once, I'm not doing that shit again.
Still, top-notch series. I am a bit sad that Silicon Knights was never allowed to make the rest of the series since the rights were basically torn from them and given to Crystal Dynamics. Still, for what we got in its place, I think Amy Hennig wrote a really great story.
>>319588228
Yes, but that fits with the proposal of the future decaying because of Elder God increased influence and grasp
What I'm wondering there is are they really his minions?
>>319585817
Yes, but the best game in the series, Blood Omen, is not on Steam.
>>319588881
It's on PSN for like 5 bucks though, at least. I think SR 1 and 2 are as well.
>>319588975
And anyone can easily download and patch the Windows version, it also works with proper cutscenes and everything.
>>319588975
Soul Reaver 1 is, not 2.
>>319585817
The soul reavers are all cool
Blood omen 2 didn't hook me like the rest
>>319588860
They come from the same dimension the hylden inhabit. The hylden are bringing them into Nosgoth in cages in BO2, so it's clear they're under hylden (and, by extension, EG) control.
>>319589356
So you're saying they were under EG's control prior to BO2, right? Because Hylden were never under his control.
>>319586248
Kain acting like a badass in what's possibly the best voice acting role in video games.
BO might come off as a bit campy at times, and it is, but Kain's character is one thing that is consistently fucking badass. Play through it and try to forget some of the lines he says, it's not going to happen.
>>319585817
emulate the dreamcast copy of sr1 and get the rest on gog
>>319589259
Blood Omen 2 didn't hook anyone. The story is mostly just being told "go here, do this" by Vorador, and only the stuff involving the Hylden Lord matters for the narrative as a whole. The puzzles are mainly just pushing buttons, and the combat is "keep blocking until fury is full, then attack".
Like I said in >>319588820, I played through it once, but the second time I just watched an LP because quite honestly that game is NOT worth actually playing a second time.
>>319589631
VAE VICTIS
>>319585817
yes
now fuck off
>>319589718
>VAE VICTIS
>mfwRaziel says it when he rips the Heart of Darkness out
>>319587570
Pillars are simply linked to the land, if the land is fucked up and destroyed then the state of the pillars reflects that. Blood Omen also takes it further and establishes that the guardians are also part of that relationship, for example Malek getting insane infected the entirety of the Circle which probably had repercussions on the land as well.
Pillars getting destroyed at the end of BO symbolize a point of no return after which Nosgoth becomes diseased and dies, so that in Soul Reaver you're exploring a gray waste.
>where would the entry point for Dark Prophecy be
Elder Kain right after the battle with Elder God in a time after young Kain refuses the sacrifice.
>>319586248
Kain being fucking awesome is what you're missing out.
>>319590291
It wasn't Malek, it was Nupraptor.
>>319590364
Oh, right. Malek is the asshole who can somehow speak despite being a walking suit of armor.
>>319590291
Nupraptor going insane you mean.
"So this was the Mentalist Nupraptor, this broken, pathetic little man."
>When inspecting his severed head in the inventory
"Alas, poor Nupraptor - I knew him well. Well, not really."
>>319590541
Technically it's his soul tethered to his armor. Which you need Vorador to kill for you.
A part of me thinks that with the gameplay the series has, the story would have better been told through a couple novels.
But at the same time, without the amazing voice acting the sheer sillyness of the plot becomes amazingly apparent.
>>319590629
How the fuck does Vorador do it? You peace out to kill the other guardians and he somehow puts Malek down despite him not really being alive anymore.
And the fucking asshole not only does it TWICE but then somehowgets captured by Moebius' vampire hunters who are just normal humans and immediately executed.
>>319590291
But that's the human belief. Besides, in one of the final cutscenes one of the guardians which I can't name atm accuses Mortanius of lying about the circle needing to die.
Soul Reaver 2 pretty plainly explains that the true purpose of the pillars is imprisonment of the Hylden. This becomes completely obvious at the end of defiance with Hylden Lord possessing Janos and bringing forth BO2
>>319590857
Because he's Vorador, fuck you. Actually what I'm guessing is he destroys Malek's body, thus destroying Malek's tether to our world.
And in the latter case, remember thatthey had Moebius's staff
>>319590857
They had the staff of Moebius that could incapacitate even the strongest vampires, most likely. That's exactly how they killed the ancients during the rebellion. Vorador himself was an extremely powerful vampire, much stronger than younger Kain, he just didn't really give a shit after Janos was killed. He could take out three Maleks probably, he toyed with him from start to finish.
>>319591108
>even the strongest vampires
Except Raziel for....some reason.
I don't think it's ever explained why him burning for 500 years in a pit makes him magically not count as a vampire anymore when he's a wraith.
>>319591267
Yeah, the original Raziel was exempt from its influence. His soul that he wielded as a weapon was not however. Moebius used the staff to disable his wraithblade in Soul Reaver 2.
>>319591267It does, he still has the soul of a vampire so it disables the reaver. But his body is nothing more than an animated corpse so it technically isn't a vampire.
My favorite bit in the series is when after Raziel inadvertently grabbed the physical reaver and started yelling at and belitting Moebius, he flicks the guy in the head to prove how much Moebius can't predict anything he's doing. And Moebius's face in reaction is priceless.
>>319589631
Exactly this. Kain doesn't let you think for a single second that he's not the omnipotent force of nature that he touts himself to be. Feels fucking so satisfying to pop out of the mist and tear someones heart out.
>>319590953
Anarcrothe? He was just as insane as everyone else. Mortanius wanted every single guardian to die so that new ones can be born and pillars restored, since apparently Nupraptor's insanity wouldn't affect the new ones.
Bringing Soul Reaver 2 up is just confusing, remember that everything that we see happen in the original Soul Reaver comes from the timeline where the Hylden don't exist (at least not in the same way they do after the paradox changes things in SR2) and Kain just raises Raziel and his brother immediately instead of bothering with all of that badly written shit from BO2.
Pillars being tied to the land explains why everything in Soul Reaver is so fucked up and gray, the sun being hidden in clouds of smoke doesn't explain why there's literally NO greenery anywhere.
PLEASE
HELP ME KIND SIR
>>319591608
>"I felt its eyes upon me, eager, hungry, as if it longed to rip my heart out and eat it before me as I died. I laughed as the onslaught began. Perhaps when it was over, it would be the other way around."
>>319591784
>"Scars such as hers would never heal. Death would only be a mercy."
>>319591758
TIS THE PLAGUE MY LORD, AND IT'S IN OUR BODIES
THERE IS NO HOPE
>>319592000
>"The wind carried screams from the west. I could not help but smile: someone else in this world was suffering more than I."
>>319591750
>Mortanius wanted every single guardian to die so that new ones can be born and pillars restored
That wasn't really true, the reality is he was possessed by the Hylden Lord (or Hash'ak'gik if you want the closest thing to his name) had possessed the guy and if the pillar guardians are all dead, then the pillars lose all their power to keep the Hylden away. Hence why they come back if Kain kills himself, and why he tries to kill you at the end of the game.
>>319592131
Mortanius struggled to retain control of his body though, he was aware that he was possessed. When Kain moved forward to slay him, Mortanius agreed and welcomed it.
>>319592131
and I realized I said the same thing twice in a sentence. This is what happens when I change tabs to look up a guy's name mid-sentence
>>319587570
>How exactly do the demons and Demon Realm fit into the whole ordeal?
The demons are just the native inhabitants of the demon realm, and that happens to be the place the Hylden were banished to.
>>319591267
>>319591403
The staff only effected the heart of darkness in Kain not Kain himself. So the only real vampire part of him was Janos' heart. Meaning Kain can fuck Moebius up once he lost the heart.
The Reaver was a vampiric blade so it could be effected by the staff. Raziel's soul and the Reaver combining to be the Soul Reaver and the subsequent wratihblade might still have some of that vampiric power in it meaning it could be disabled by the staff.
>>319592131
>if the pillar guardians are all dead, then the pillars lose all their power to keep the Hylden away
You can choose to sacrifice Kain at the end of Blood Omen and it will give you the non canon ending where the pillars are restored. In later games this is retconned to be a bad ending since as long as humans are guardians they'll be susceptible to mind-control by the Hylden, at least that's what Kain tells Raziel when he says Pillars should return to vampire guardianship.
>the reality is he was possessed by the Hylden Lord
He fought the possession, you can see this in his cutscene in Defiance. Look, Mortanius realizes that the pillars are weak and Nosgoth is fucked up so he raises Kain and hopes that he'll also sacrifice himself at the end. He's actually one of the good guys, it's just that he doesn't think the plan through.
>>319591750
It's really speculation at this point. Anarcrothe may as well have been mad but Mortanius says nothing to oppose this claim:
>Failed our duties? Idiot! The Circle exists for us, we don’t exist for it! Our powers will save or damn Nosgoth at our whim! Stand with us, Mortanius, or die!
I can't argue this anyway, so I'm just going to continue
You're misunderstanding how the timeline works. Kain pretty much definitively says that time is a river making paths along obstacles but ultimately going to the same direction as before. The Hylden stuff happened and it ultimately leads to Kain's empire, resurrection of Sarafan lords and its eventual decay
The whole point is that you cannot change your destiny no matter how hard you try as history abhors a paradox. Throwing out the truth Soul Reaver 2 revealed means throwing out the timeline itself
>>319592690
Yeah, wasn't arguing against it. Kain as a true guardian was absolutely absurd. Teleport at will, shift at will, a sword that can hurt a god.
>>319592469
How and why do they appear in SR2's past?
Since everything went to shit because Nupraptor went crazy with grief from Ariel dying, couldn't Kain just travel far back enough to prevent her murder?
>>319593157
Wasn't that the future?
>>319593241
It was, but they also appear when you're trying to reclaim the Heart of Darkness at the climax of SR2
>>319592131
Humans don't make good guardians and the humans rebelled against the vampires because they turned new human guardians into vampires leading to the inevitable demise of the pillars.
Mortanius tried to fix this by turning Kain, the new balance guardian, into a vamp to restore the pillars under vampire guardianship and fix everything. This during the moments Mortanius was able to fight off his own possession.
>>319593241
He could, but that would erase him. Remember, the game went really fucking meta. The Hylden were aware that Kain was tampering with time, and the outcome where he might strain the timestream a little too hard, which would result in him being erased from history was something they hoped or tried to bait Kain into. He addresses that in conversation with Raziel in SR 2.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10XK8uNQKqY
>>319592930
>The Hylden stuff happened and it ultimately leads to Kain's empire, resurrection of Sarafan lords and its eventual decay
Not in the same way we see in happen in BO2, probably. Fuck, for all we know the Hylden are defeated in the original Blood Omen when Kain puts down the Unspoken that come out from Mortanius and that's the wrap on the thing.
>>319593382
Well the way I see it, the pillars are meant to keep out the Hylden, not the demon realm itself. I don't see why the demons couldn't travel between worlds if given the ability to.
>>319592951
I was more trying to clear up the Raziel vampire thing. Depending on how Raziel was converted into a vampire what ever it was could have simply been lost when he was cast into the abyss. Just like it was lost in Kain once he lost the heart.
>tfw the original BO is in licensing hell so you can never buy it on steam or gog
Is Kain a real vampire? Isn't he basically a pseudo-vampire made by shoving the HoD into him? I thought only a real vampire can create one, which is why Kain had to use the soul method to make new ones after Vorador was dead, because Vorador could do it naturally. Even then, Kain vampires were flawed and mutated.
>>319593807
It's on psn since sony owns the ps1 version.
>>319593865
PC version doesn't have stupid long load times.
>>319594020
True.
>>319593449
That's the paradox. Hylden Lord tried to prevent Kain's empire from ever happening but he never could because destiny wouldn't allow it
The Unspoken is Hylden Lord inside Mortanius yeah but the moment he is slain and his prison is broken he possesses Janos. It's the sideffect for tampering with time
Like you said, the real story continues with Elder Kain
>You're a righteous fiend, aren't you?
>Apparently I am
>>319592951
Also Kain was a true guardian because he was a vampire. Although how he is a vampire still without the heart I am not sure if that was really explained or I don't remember it. Maybe he isn't but he could now go around creating vampire guardians now and to sacrifice himself so that a vampire balance guardian can take his place to finally save Nosgoth, if they ever continued on the story.
>>319593631
But again, we're going back to the question, why would they bother to stop you? There isn't any other reason except that they're under EG's dominion
>>319594167
>Although how he is a vampire still without the heart
The simplest explanation is that Mortanius simply used it to raise Kain, he doesn't need it after.
>>319594139
First time I played I didn't get that.
Second time through I got what he meant. It's probably the best line in the series.
>>319594397
That and the speech Kain gave Raziel at the pillars in SR 1. Suppose one day it lands on its edge.
>>319594335
I would think the staff should still effect him then.
>>319594139
>a fucking beast to fight
>it doesn't matter, Raziel is literally invincible at that point
>>319594542
That was 2.
>>319594548
So, what are you implying, that Kain stops being a vampire after Raziel rips the heart out? That's fucking stupid.
>>319594548
As I said in >>319593865, I think he's an artifical vampire so it only works if the real vampire piece is in him.
You know what SR2 was missing from the rest of the series?
Boss fights. I mean yeah, in SR1 they were basically just puzzles, but at least they were there.
>>319594116
>Like you said, the real story continues with Elder Kain
What I want to know is whether or not Kain has free will at that point.
Probably not since being a walking paradox was Raziel's whole shtick, but Kain surviving SR2 (which he was fated to die during) and Defiance (which was shown in the SR1 prophecy, kinda) must also mean something.
>>319594613
Right, no idea why I wrote "1" there. It has not been that long since I have played it last time.
>>319594572
That entire sequence was perfect.
>"So dutiful and righteous, even as a vampire. I guess some habits die hard."
>>319594847
Non-linearity. Sure, Blood Omen and SR1 were also linear when you get right down to it but at least there were optional locations and secrets. SR2 is just a corridor.
>>319594897
He does. Raziel's final sacrifice made him the Scion of Balance, and thus forth he is free from the The Wheel. The sole reason he, for the first time, has true hope.
That's the edge of the coin.too bad we'll never see the fucking ending
>>319595469
According to Amy Hennig Raziel had free will ever since he was thrown into the pit. Which is why Moebius can't see what he'll do next, just the ripples it creates in time. But since Raziel can change his mind the ripples are in themselves unpredictable.
>>319595469
>too bad we'll never see the fucking ending
Blame Eidos, they shitcanned Dark Prophecy.
>>319594681
Well if the staff effects vampires or vampiric power and no longer effects Kain how can he be vampire?
Unless you come up with some hokey semi vampire shit like what >>319594719 points to. I don't buy that though. Why would some faux vampire not be effected by the staff but be a suitable guardian. Just sounds like cheap plot armour so the staff doesn't effect him anymore. Although I guess him being scion of balance meaning he doesn't die when losing the heart was already kinda plot armor. I think you can explain it without the fake vampire thing as I did. The story isn't finished.
>>319595768
>Michael Bell and Simon Templeman will die in your lifetime
>>319595768
>"The town of Steinchencröe bore with it the infamous aroma of its inhabitants. In life, I would not have graced the place with my presence. In death, I merely added to the stench."
play this fucking game if you didn't, seriously
>>319595918
Well yes, Michael Bell is quite old. Simon Templeman I actually can't find his age anywhere.
>>319595625
He has free will over death, and is free from The Wheel. But not over destiny. They aren't one in the same.
His purpose is complete when he conjoins himself with the guardians and purifies Kain, and thus the prophecy is fulfilled
>>319594847
And undead enemies.
The shitload of ways to kill the vampires in the first one were what spiced up the game gameplay.
Now you just hit them until their head falls off.
>>319595905
I buy the theory that Kain is just a weird hybrid and the staff only affects true vampires like Janos or Vorador. Maybe the staff disabling the Reaver doesn't come from Raziel's soul being in it but from it being a vampire blade.
If the above is true then the staff probably wouldn't work on SR1-era vampires.
>>319596315
That actually explains the murals and the "Redeemer & Destroyer" stuff perfectly
Greatest fucking story ever
>>319596906
It is dump that something that effects vampire no longer effects him but he still functions as a vampire guardian. It is just special pleading. You might as well just say he isn't a vampire anymore but he will still restore balance bringing the pillars back under vampiric rule. He just has to, at some point, sacrifice himself so a vampire balance guardian can take his place.
Also I already mentioned the Reaver. The staff doesn't effect Raziel but effects the blade because it is vampiric but the Soul Reaver, including the wraithblade can simply just be part vampire in both instances so it is effected by the staff even though Raziels soul on its own shouldn't be.
>>319597076
yeah it's based
>>319597076
It also represents Raziel possessing free will and being able to make a choice. Moebius was very gleeful about it, that it was their greatest victory, that Raziel, being able to actually choose what he could do, made a choice that was exactly what they wanted of him (when they thought he killed Kain).
>>319595918
>Tony Jay will never voice a game again
I hope to never see a sequel. Crystal Dynamics will only fuck this shit up.
>>319601012
Corey Burton can do the voice anyway
Personally I think the first game is the best and the rest are hot garbage where they dumbed down the gameplay and bosses. If only they had finished the first soul reaver instead of running our of budget.
Most people just play them for the plot thought, many hate the gameplay of all of them.
>>319603256
I'm indifferent to the gameplay. It wasn't so horrible that it completely distracted you from the story.
This shit was my soap opera.
LoK thread?
Lok Thread
>>319596124
you played Dragon Age Inquisition? Loghain's face is his face..his age is showing
>>319603482
Shieee that was a good thread
1/?
>>319603482
That thread yesterday was gold
>>319604032
>>319603482
i've been meaning to draw this since last night
i need to get around to that
>>319604345
Plz do it
Just thinking of how you could alter Ozar Midrashim to make it sound like a comedy sitcom theme sends my sides into the spectral real.
Is worth to play, considering games like these won't be made anymore
>>319585962
this
>>319585885
sometimes pc version crash
