I didn't pick up on any of the symbolism in this game can someone help me out?
nothing is real
>>318085026
If you're IQ is below 115/120 don't even try. The meaning of this game was something understandable only for a handful of people.
>>318085026
Bumping
Help
>>318085026
The meaning is that idiots will mistake 'lack of direction' for 'depth'. For more examples, see Hideaki Anno.
>>318085026
There is no symbolism. The Kojima cult lied to you.
>>318085026
Pic related is MGS2 fans in a nutshell.
>>318085026
it just a mish mash of good ideas and nonsense like all japanese stuff.
why cant japanese tell a coherent story?
>>318086427
Oh, there's symbolism. Just not nearly as much as fans like to believe. And little of it is meaningful.
The plot of Mgs2 was the patriots using Raiden to create the perfect soldier meme so every common soldier could be like Solid Snake
>>318086889
Didn't they say that was just a ruse upon a ruse and it was really about censorship and control of data
>>318085480
what? the only actual messages the game has are said very plainly. everything else is just cryptic bullshit kojimaisms
MGS2 fans are literally the most pretentious faggots in all of vidya
>>318085026
>symbolism
Here. This will sum up most things.
http://www.metagearsolid.org/reports_mgs2.html
>>318085480
>The meaning of this game was something understandable only for a handful of people.
yeah, the elitist pricks known as the MGS2 fanbase
>>318085480
This, there's a lot of people who put it on a pedestal because they don't really understand the game.
>>318089331
I don't think MGS2 even understood itself with that Acid Trip at the end and the retarded AI Roy going on and on about shit
>>318085026
Read up new friends! ;^]
>>318085026
>symbolism
What the fuck are you talking about?
>>318089995
>AI Roy
post disregarded. I don't listen to an AI glitching out
>>318090486
>I don't listen to an AI glitching out
It wasn't sure that the Colonel was an AI until MGS4. That's why Raiden says "How's that possible, the AI was destroyed?!"
>>318090767
>It wasn't sure that the Colonel was an AI until MGS4.
Roy was real in MGS
he was an AI all along in MGS2 but it's only after he goes full retard does the truth get revealed (Normal Roy I call Roy. Roy going full retard I call AI Roy).
and after he goes full retard he's not worth listening to anymore
>>318085026
Not sure about symbolism but the overall message of the game is to question what you see as "real" or "right", and how easy it is to manipulate information to make people believe and act pretty much however is desirable.
Basically, don't trust only what you're shown or told is right. Find your own truth and make the decision yourself.
>>318091131
>Basically, don't trust only what you're shown or told is right. Find your own truth and make the decision yourself.
which the MGS2 fanbase does not do.
>>318091070
>he was an AI all along in MGS2
Yes, at first. Then GW gets destroyed, and then it's not certain anymore. That was the point of the whole "the White House was our primordial suit."
>and after he goes full retard he's not worth listening to anymore
Except for the fact that everything he and Rose says is right but okay.
>>318091339
>Except for the fact that everything he and Rose says is right but okay.
>listening to Rose
>ever
>>318091339
>primordial suit."
soup* fuck me.
>>318091395
Reminder that Rose is better than Para-Medic
>>318091490
nice joke
>>318091206
Or any fanbase for that matter.
>"Everyone withdraws into their own small gated community, afraid of a larger forum.
They stay inside their little ponds,
leaking whatever "truth" suits them into the growing cesspool of society at large."
e.g. /v/
The patriots are the illuminati obv
And the information control is corporate ownership and govt ownership of the internet
Memes are meant for social control not what they used to be back in the day.
"The Third World War must be fomented by taking advantage of the differences caused by the "agentur" of the "Illuminati" between the political Zionists and the leaders of Islamic World. The war must be conducted in such a way that Islam (the Moslem Arabic World) and political Zionism (the State of Israel) mutually destroy each other. Meanwhile the other nations, once more divided on this issue will be constrained to fight to the point of complete physical, moral, spiritual and economical exhaustion…We shall unleash the Nihilists and the atheists, and we shall provoke a formidable social cataclysm which in all its horror will show clearly to the nations the effect of absolute atheism, origin of savagery and of the most bloody turmoil. Then everywhere, the citizens, obliged to defend themselves against the world minority of revolutionaries, will exterminate those destroyers of civilization, and the multitude, disillusioned with Christianity, whose deistic spirits will from that moment be without compass or direction, anxious for an ideal, but without knowing where to render its adoration, will receive the true light through the universal manifestation of the pure doctrine of Lucifer, brought finally out in the public view. This manifestation will result from the general reactionary movement which will follow the destruction of Christianity and atheism, both conquered and exterminated at the same time." 4
Back to the Future predicted 9/11
>>318085026
Read a wiki you nard
Raiden was a bad character ON PURPOSE
ISNT THAT DEEP LOL?
>>318092078
at least they fixed him
>>318092012
social media is brainwash and you must reject it all costs
simpsons had 9-11 as well as terminator 2 i believe
>>318092078
?
How was he a bad character?
>>318092145
Except MGS4 completely tramples over his arc from MGS2 and gives him the SAME ENDING from MGS2 at the end of MGS4.
Fuck all y'all.
Was it all VR or not?
>>318089995
Fuck, I don't even like MGS, but this is making me want to replay that game. I love meta commentary like that. Good social commentary too.
I wish there were other games that played the player like that. I can't think of too many.
>>318086729
I think that more accurately describes Indie game fans
>>318092396
Raiden had character development in 2?
>>318092490
nope, MGS4 confirms
>>318092668
>Raiden had character development in 2?
Yes. Did you play the game?
>>318088970
There was literally no reason to make this a .gif
>>318092702
>Yes. Did you play the game?
yes but didn't pay attention to a lot of the shit happening in Arsenal Gear because it went so fucking retarded so fast plus I wasn't that fond of the game so I also wanted it to be done.
>>318092830
I didn't make it.
Solidus was like a modern George Washington, wanted to declare a new independence, The Patriots system and its 'memes' are analogous to our modern web, Facebook, Social Trends and conformity are becoming the norm
>>318092867
>yes but didn't pay attention to a lot of the shit happening in Arsenal Gear because it went so fucking retarded so fast plus I wasn't that fond of the game so I also wanted it to be done.
Oh, well okay. Yeah he has character development. MGS4 tramples on this only to give him the same ending again. Guess we're done here.
I know how.
>>318092668
>Raiden had character development in 2?
He fakes a rookie persona, pretends to be a good guy, but you can get pantyshots, kill birds, waltz into the women's bathroom, etc. and have characters reprimand him; A lot of his character development gets ignored because of confusion over the ending and DID U SAY NERD, ROOOOSE
He kind of gets fleshed out a bit more in 4 and actually moreso in MGR >canon, but it's explained that after 2 he became an abusive deadbeat and drunk before becoming a cyborg, since his only skill was killing people.
>>318092396
He wasn't inherently bad, but he wasn't Solid Snake. Everyone expected Snake, everyone was hyped for Snake, but instead they got Raiden, a fairly bland character with no real personality and a seemingly blind devotion to his mission (initially). He's a blank slate for the player to self-insert as, and when he finally becomes self-aware and rejects the player's control, that was supposed to give the message that the player also has free will and the ability to make decisions on their own.
But of course most people were just mad about the game being about Raiden instead of Snake. Yes, he is supposed to be a bad character, that's the point. He has NO character at all until pretty much the last chapter of the game.
>>318093175
>But of course most people were just mad about the game being about Raiden instead of Snake.
I would be less pissed if they didn't dangle Snake in front of the player for most of Raiden's part. and that Raiden's part of the game was less shit (good god Big Shell sucked ass)
>Yes, he is supposed to be a bad character, that's the point
okay? He's still a bad character, even if it was on purpose
>>318092925
>and conformity are becoming the norm
Conformity has always been the norm since the dawn of human society though.
>>318092396
Well that's how Raiden's life turned out, what can you do about it
>>318093352
Well consider if they'd done that with Snake instead. Pretend Raiden doesn't exist. Kojima wouldn't have been able to get the message of the game across, since Snake is already a well established and developed character, and it wouldn't make sense for him to revert back to being a retard after all the shit he experienced.
Now, perhaps MGS2 could have been a different game entirely, one where you play as Snake/Philanthropy and are out to stop the Patriots. But we had no control over that. Kojima made the game he wanted to make, and Raiden was the perfect character for that game.
>>318092668
>MGS4 confirms
That's not what I meant. When Kojima was originally designing MGS2, did he intend to give the underlying impression that Raiden's world isn't real?
>>318093821
>the message of the game
there was a message?
>>318093175
>Yes, he is supposed to be a bad character, that's the point.
But he's not a bad character I don't understand. He has goals, wants, needs, etc. What is your yardstick for a bad character?
>He has NO character at all until pretty much the last chapter of the game.
Skittish, (DID I TELL YOU YOU COULD MOVE?), caring, (I do remember...), (You guys must've been close, huh?), determined, (NOW!), etc.
>>318093352
>I would be less pissed if they didn't dangle Snake in front of the player for most of Raiden's part
That's the point hnng
>>318093960
Did you fucking play the game jesus these are the people I browse /v/ with.
>>318093558
No conformity is a corporation thing.
>>318094125
I did but stopped caring after Arsenal Gear
>>318094198
There has always been conformity ALTHOUGH I see exactly what you mean.
>>318093558
>"Social trends and conformity are becoming the norm" those two phrases were grouped for a reason. The game addresses the idea that everyone these days wants the same lifestyle, the same experiences, the same ideas and memes are accepted while others are rejected. This is why modern society does not produce any more Geniuses or Revolutionaries, Modern society no longer produces any Big Bosses, Solidus Snake's, Che Guevara's, Modern society produces people like Raiden, a slave to a higher will, to the meme's around him that control his will.
"What we propose to do is not to control, The digital society furthers human flaws and selectively rewards
development of convenient half-truths"
>>318086379
>muh christ symbolism
Do people actually believe EVA is deep, or are the fans aware its retarded like MGS?
>>318094513
I see then.
Conformity due to social trends and corporatism. Makes sense to me then.
>>318094024
Yes, he expresses emotions like any other human being. The reason he's -initially- a bad character is because he blindly follows his orders without ever really thinking about why. That's what he was created to be, all those VR simulations telling him how to be "the perfect soldier", telling him what Solid Snake was like and how he should be like him (when the real Snake was quite different). He had everything fed to him in order to produce a mindless slave that is smart and has combat proficiency, but also follows orders without question - a "perfect soldier".
Maybe calling him a bad character isn't quite right. More like he's undeveloped (at the start), but then that is the point. He grows throughout the course of the game. I'm not shitting on Raiden or anything, I'm trying to explain to people who do shit on him the reasoning behind him being the way he is.
>>318094967
Yes, if you play the game to the end you will see the game has a deep message about what we are gonna pass on to the next generation, are we going to teach them to be individuals and decide for themselves like Raiden is at the end of the game, or we gonna teach them, like is currently being done, to be digital drones identical to each other with no sense of identity like Raiden is at the atart of the game.
So I would say the game or the character Raiden and his character development throughout the game carries deep symbolism of the two character types that we can leave to the next generation..
>>318094513
I googled that and I can't find it. Link?
>>318085026
the answer is /v/. they were talking about us
>>318095375
http://junkerhq.net/MGS2/Text.html
>>318095301
Like I said before in this thread, I need to play MGS2 again, it's been years.
>>318094513
This is EXACTLY the shit that Ghost in the Shell's second season talks about but everyone just likes the Laughing Man for some fucking reason.
>>318095482
CTRL+F I can't find the paragraph you greentexted. I'm not calling you out I just find it to be really compelling and can't find it in the analysis. Did you write it yourself?
>>318095506
I think some of the arguments Kojima was making in MGS2 about the modern world he wanted to follow up in MGS 3, 4 and 5, as yes the points he made in 2 weer releavnt to the world around us, but we are also not only being torn apart by modernity, but if you look around you our cultural identity, race, religion, is also tearing us apart.. You can spend your life comforming to meme's but without the patriot "Control" you have a group of meme's from different cultural sects all fighting for dominance over each other - See Code Talker's speech Multi Ethnicity in the United States in MGSV... Only Big Boss, Solid Snake, The Boss had it right, Life is about respecting the will of others, leaving the world the way it is, A world without borders, and army without borders, finding something to believe in to fight for if needed and passing it on
>>318096046
Yes I wrote all of these posts myself.
>>318095301
>>318094513
>>318092925
>>318096154
I'm very passionate about this series and game :)
>>318095176
(cont.) To maybe give a more relevant example, how about you, reading this now? How many of the decisions in your life can you really say were your own? The clothes you wear, the career you pursue, maybe even your political views can all be manipulated. You're told what's "good", what's "right", and so on. And because so many people believe it, you do too. Of course you do, you just want to fit in and be socially accepted, there's nothing wrong with that. But a world where herd mentality takes over and people lose the ability to think for themselves, instead being presented with an illusion of "free will" (that in reality is a pre-defined set of options laid out before us) is what Solidus/Big Boss etc. were trying to prevent - "free from the system".
Raiden is YOU at the start of the game, but by the end of the game he's his own person. But then, what about you? You can be your own person too. That, I think, is the purpose of Raiden in MGS2.
>>318096154
So are you and Kojima both for or against multiculturalism? That's what it sounds like to me, an argument against multiculturalism.
>>318095301
>are we going to teach them to be individuals and decide for themselves
In an age where billions of humans can be connected in a second, why is there any need for individualism anymore? This is something discussed in the film of Ghost in the Shell. Indeed the film opens with
"In the near future - corporate networks reach out to the stars, electrons and light flow throughout the universe.
The advance of computerization, however, has not yet wiped out nations and ethnic groups."
>>318094218
Then why would you question whether or not the game has a message when you only got through 65% of the plot? MGS2, like any MGS game, lacks in subtlety about its themes to the point where it plainly states them to you repeatedly. In MGS2's case its the passing of non-genetic information, and how society chooses both as a group and as individuals what information to pass to future generations.
>>318096552
Fuck, I'm getting into cyberpunk and I've been meaning to watch GitS. Guess I'm going to do that soon then.
>>318096576
>>318096576
>Then why would you question whether or not the game has a message when you only got through 65% of the plot?
because I assumed that the Arsenal Gear section was a whole lot of nothing.
the people who spoke a lot in that segment were:
Solidus - the main bad guy
AI Roy - a retard
AI Rose - a bitch
Snake - the only decent person of the bunch
>>318096548
It's a tricky one I think me and Kojima are both on the same page.. One one hand in a utopia Multicultarism would be ideal. It's like that scene where The Boss goes into space and sees a world with no borders, no separation between human beings, but on the other hand we look around and see what "Multiculturism" and its products has done to society and people, War, Violence and Conflict is not as a result of Multicultarism, but they can be.. as can peace
>>318085026
Not even this scene?
>>318085026
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-2YuPGYabw
Worth a watch.
>>318085026
it's post modernist shit
i can't believe /v/ doesn't know about this guy yet
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-2YuPGYabw
>>318096979
I like you.
That's how I've been thinking recently as well.
There's a beauty in multiculturalism, in how different cultures can mix, share ideas, influence one another, be peaceful with one another. But sometimes I feel like some members of a culture choose to not supersede wholly their original culture, and it clashes violently with the group as a whole. Look at the recent terrorist attacks in France for example.
>>318096979
MGSV is underrated
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMRAyDuAOLQ
>>318096857
Actually pay attention if you play the game again. MGS2's story is not rocket science.
Rose is not even always an AI in that section. Its heavily implied she is forcefully taken offline after telling Raiden she is pregnant.
AI Roy is 'retarded' because Emma's virus was uploaded in the previous scene, remember? AI Roy is part of GW. It didn't work right away but gradually decimated GW, completely destroying it around the time Raiden fights the RAYs. The AI that Raiden speaks to on Federal Hall is not GW, but a different one, per the script.
>>318097207
>>318097249
>>318094747
People seem to think that the cross explosions are deep.
The character shit is arguably in depth. Considering how retarded anime fans are, it probably is too deep for them.
>>318097305
>if you play the game again.
which is something I am not going to do since I will be going "why bother when MGS4 fixes everything"
>Rose is not even always an AI in that section
Its still that cunt so fuck paying attention to her,
>The AI that Raiden speaks to on Federal Hall is not GW, but a different one, per the script.
but it still used Roy's face and voice so I assumed that it was the Roy AI glitching out and skipped what it said
>>318097250
Yes this is why I love the Metal Gear Series also, because it perfectly mirrors our modernity.. As all the stuff was happening in France and Syria all i thought of was MGSV and its themes of, race and revenge.. Heck France didn't even take a day to take its revenge on ISIS... Retaliation breeds Retaliation, Anger breeds Anger, Eye for Eye, Skull for Skull... Personally I think Venom Snake being a silent protagonist was a genius movie, based on how the character is identified with the player and our reaction to all the revenge based, culture based violence happening around us..
>>318097521
>MGS4 fixes everything
>MGS4 somehow prevents someone from replaying MGS2
>I'm not going to pay attention to the story and skip cutscenes yet I will still make criticisms about a simple story I don't understand
Why are MGS2 haters so retarded, /v/?
>>318097840
>>MGS4 fixes everything
it only fixes the retarded mess known as MGS2
>>318085026
I always thought that tanned circle was just a coffee stain from whoever owned the copy first.
>>318096154
>he Boss had it right, Life is about respecting the will of others, leaving the world the way it is
...Except you then have to change shit when shit goes awry.
>>318097521
>"why bother when MGS4 fixes everything"
You dumb fuck.
>>318097932
Did you read the thread?
>>318085026
Read this and tell me what it reminds you of.
Because I see a little bit of it in everything. Everywhere you look.
>>318097932
Yeah, making the Patriots be the support cast from MGS3 really fixed MGS2's plot problems (which you haven't actually laid out).
Making Vamp's immortality be a result of nanomachines really helped the storyline. Don't forget how Ocelot was only PRETENDING to be Liquid.
You're right. Also MGSV fixed MGS3.
>>318097742
Well I still need to play through MGSV so I'm not 100% sure of what you're talking about.
>>318098160
I'm still trying to understand MGSV also myself, it's not as well told in terms of story as MGS2, but beneath the surface I think it's just as deep as 2, it just takes a little more analysis and really deep thought to understand
>>318098152
I didn't mention anything about MGS3.
I am just saying that plot and character issues from MGS2 got fixed in 4
>>318085026
Play the game through a second time, think about the codec call at the end.
Then play it through a third time, and think about what you were expecting when you played the game.
>>318098350
I'm an idiot, b/c I can never seem to go deep and analyze the shit out of anything like that.
>>318098386
>character issues from MGS2 got fixed in 4
Certainly. Like destroying Raiden's entire arc only to give him the same exact ending with a worse journey. Destroying any mysticism about Vamp was another improvement. Yeah.
>>318098491
I can only really do it with certain games and movies that we're designed to be that way, I find studying philosophy and Psychology helps also
>>318098386
>fixed
If by "fixed" you mean almost completely retconned, then sure. Don't forget that MGS2 was supposed to be Kojima's last game. It's impossible to make a sequel for a game like that, a game that was supposed to be left open to interpretation. If anything MGS4 made things worse by pasting explanations that still didn't make sense over the story of MGS2.
>>318097742
>and its themes of, race and revenge
Hold it cowboy, MGSV hardly does a fucking thing with race and revenge. Least of all anything compelling that hasn't been done before. Beasts of No Nation does the race aspect better than MGSV, and Monte Cristo does revenge better.
yall need to watch blackhat then
>>318098598
Have you ever played the first No More Heroes and analyzed that?
>>318098895
MGSV - GZ - Your Base is blown apart
MGSV- TPP - You Take Revenge
Key: Your main villains (Skullface) main goal stems from 'Pain' felt from Racial, Cultural reasons
>>318098832
>If by "fixed" you mean almost completely retconned
for the better
>>318098350
MGSV isn't as obvious being as new as it is, but the joke is on the players.
Much of /v/ goes "THAT JUST MEANS THE GAME SUCKS AND THE STORY IS SHIT".
But the whole point of the story, what is left of it that wasn't cut out, is the feeling of loss and how people deal with that feeling. It plays very heavily to Kojima leaving Konami, like he knew this was going to happen just at the start of development.
Venom lost his identity, and his arm. Miller lost his ability to be an effective soldier, Skull Face lost his language, Code talker lost his chance at saving his people, Mother Base lost Sahelanthropus, Eli lost his future, Quiet lost her body. Even deeper than that: The players lost their chance to avenge Mother Base, they also lost their franchise, and they lost the conclusive link between Phantom Pain and Metal Gear they were promised from the trailers. Nothing that venom does makes any difference, because the person people wanted answers to isn't even in 99% of the game, and we have no idea how he acts or why he is descending into madness. I think that's by design.
What I don't think is by design is having the last 1/3rd of the game cut and Kojima promptly getting fired. That's disappointing but perfectly understandable in a market where you can't really play games or jokes on your players like that. The trailers painted this amazing game that would have been unparalleled if it actually came out, but was clearly a trailer meant to hype Big Boss' story, not Venom's.If you were an observer watching Venom's story unfold instead of playing him, his story would have looked like the trailers. But you weren't, that's the tradeoff between agency vs making something look cool. Which is what I think was the intended message for Venom and Big Boss' legacy.
>>318099146
>MGSV - GZ - Your Base is blown apart
If we go by MGSV's ending, that is to say, you weren't Big Boss, then it's not "our" base. It's Big Boss' base. Even less so if you did not play Peace Walker.
>MGSV- TPP - You Take Revenge
Yes. This isn't groundbreaking. Monte Cristo did it over a hundred years ago and better.
>Key: Your main villains (Skullface) main goal stems from 'Pain' felt from Racial, Cultural reasons
Hotel Rhwanda and Beasts of No Nation handle racial and cultural differences with far more finesse.
I give credit where credit is due, MGS2 is fantastic. But MGSV is a let down in all ways except gameplay.
>>318099275
If you don't actually have an argument can you leave and let the adults talk?
>>318099432
You were Big Boss in GZ. That base is where the MSF soliders went to after PW. It's our base you retard.
>>318099432
I agree i don't think its as good as it could have been.. but as a piece of philosophy I think the Elegia Trailer was beautiful.. If only the full game could have lived up to that in terms of storytelling also, because the themes are all there!! its frustrating because you know the themes are there, you just wish it was done better, because it could have been even more powerful...
>>318099571
>You were Big Boss in GZ
Yes, and then not in TPP. And again, it's not compelling. You don't seem to be arguing that it is compelling so why are you posting?
>>318099652
>Elegia trailer
I agree. The language angle was very, VERY interesting could've been the perfect companion piece to MGS2. Sadly it didn't bear fruit.
>>318097742
I understand MGSV's message that the act of taking revenge doesn't fill the void or bring anything back, but that isn't the point.
"Revenge is the foundation of justice", to quote a great man. Diamond Dogs' revenge against Skull Face was entirely proportionate, and had the added benefit of removing a threat to world peace.
I'm glad MGSV avoided the "revenge is bad m'kay" cliche, though I'm not sure it was intentional.
>>318092078
The only bad thing about Raiden is his voice actor.
>>318099432
Key 2: You were Big Boss in both games but in the second you were not..
This is a rather obvious discrepency, For me Venom Snake being silent for large sections of the game makes sense given this discrepency.
Imagine if you were one person for one part of your life and another for a second part of your life.. I think Venom Snake represents confusion, at our modernity, The War, The Violence, The Technology that can turn one person into another, Venom is still the Medic deep down, but he is also Big Boss.. His silence makes sense, who is he really, the smirk at the end is a beautiful moment for me, it is a knowing smirk that the character gives as if to say I know my identity has been subject to change but know, I am Big Boss and I'm OK with it
>>318100139
>Quinton Flynn
>bad
No, the only thing bad here is your tastes, Anon.
>>318100240
>I think Venom Snake represents confusion, at our modernity, The War, The Violence, The Technology that can turn one person into another,
I think that's a bit far reaching. In fact I'd probably simplify it to just "Venom is silent because he's a new fucking person and he has memories of his time as a medic and they're conflicting."
>the smirk at the end is a beautiful moment for me, it is a knowing smirk that the character gives as if to say I know my identity has been subject to change but know, I am Big Boss and I'm OK with it
If I were to go along with your previous reasoning, I'd surmise that Venom's smirk is him accepting the war, the violence, and the technology. Though perhaps that's me projecting.
>>318085480
The only thing I remember about MGS2 was that it made me cringe a lot.
>Fatman - a literal fat man on roller skates
>Vamp - Penis knife SHLIIIIRRRRRP
>Fortune - put your bullets INSIDE ME PLEASE
>Ocelot - Liquid jacks him now
>Emma - Wants to fuck her bro
>Raiden - sdljvgdafuvgk64y56yh56ii
>Solidus - Tentacle man
>Rose - FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
Ugh. If I were to enjoy MGS2, it would not be because the characters are likable or the story is engaging.
Retards making something out of nothing. Kojima is a horrible writer, and these dick sucking faggot fans of his cant seem to accept that.
>>318100950
>it's shit because I say it's shit
fuck off idiot.
>>318100701
I agree with both statements, it took me a little analysis and research on stuff put out by Konami and Kojima to come to these ideas about the game because at first I too pessimistically thought Kiefer must have jyust been too busy or asking for too much money, but now I get it.. and how it ties in with the theme of language, Skull Face's ethnic cleansers, Code Talker and Zeroes Plans for Cipher and eventually The Patriot A.I.
Although one side remark as a critique is I genuinely find Ocelet's role in this game as criminally underused and often redundant apart from as a link to the REAL BIG BOSS
>>318100798
MGS has always had genuinely thought-provoking themes, hidden by genuinely retarded elements, wrapped up in a package that has way too many cutscenes and codec conversations for a video game. With a lot ofRule of Coolfor good measure.
>>318101214
Ehh can't say I agree man. I mean it's fine that you read into it, you have your reasoning to back it up but I just can't agree. It all seems too accidental.
>>318101458
watch from 25:00 interview with developer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brG4OEUd7qc
>>318100950
Awww the wittle baby doesn't like the story? Then get the fuck out of the metal gear thread, dipshit.
>>318102141
and you guys claim to be the most mature MGS fanbase
>>318092078
he's one of the best characters in the series, easily rivaling solid snake even before mgs4 turned him into an edgy bdsm fag
>>318101971
Are you sure this is the right timestamp? They're talking about the player agency being greater because of the open world, which is blatantly false. And the idea to make Big Boss silent is to address millions of players playing as Big Boss in an open world environment. Which goes against your theories that Venom is silent because he's thrown into a world he does not understand.
>>318097249
I know about him, but I can't watch his videos because his hair disgusts me to no end.
It looks like a bunch of rotting oily algae.
Personally I found it a massive letdown on launch since I was looking forward to operating with Snake, and then got saddled with an adolescent mumbly blond faggot, as well as the sheer ridiculous nature of fighting multiple RAYs was a little too much, even for MG, (at the time).
On its own merit, MGS2 was an extremely good manipulation of the player, from the trailers that had everyone fooled, to the theme of a global power influencing the world through creating context(read into it, it's a perfect example of how the world is run today, no tinfoil) and the warning of how the 'patriots' mirror our own world's elite families. Sounds ridiculous? Look up the richest banking families there are, and how they financed every war since napoleon's time, then consider the fact the NSA passively records everything posted online, and how the media's coverage and bias effects public opinion.
It's why I prefer MGS, I liked the late 90's action style it had, and I miss the days when all we had to worry about was nukes or war with another country, not being trapped in this nightmare of censorship and spying by our own country.
