>"As long as the items are cosmetic, it's ok for them to not be included in the game and sold for money"
When did this meme start? Do people really enjoy having a fucking soulless game that looks bland and has no variety at all, unless you decide to pay for every $1 skin and horse armor out there, in 2015?
Games used to include tons of costumes and shit for free, because it actually DOES matter. Different skins, weird modifiers etc, can add hours and hours of fun to a game that otherwise feels like a bland experience. Hell, they sell that shit because they know those items are valuable to players.
People who say they're worthless are the same who advocate cheats can be sold as DLC and part of this industry's problems.
>>318047757
>>318048585
What are you implying, that people have given up on fighting for costumes and such?
>>318048895
yes, and they have rationalized it after so many years that they find the practice of sectioning off cosmetics a completely acceptable practice
>>318049526
The main reason boils down to the fact that a) it works and b) production costs are stupid in this day and age compared to up-front sales. It's harder to recoup what you put into making the game, even if you don't have a swollen AAA marketing budget.
Personally, if it's pure cosmetic stuff and there's an alternate way to grind for it, I don't care. I bought the game, and I'm generally content with the game and some occasional splurge. If this somehow makes me a faggot, then I'm a content one.
>>318049526
I see what you mean. It makes sense. People are tired of fighting for that.
Blizzard customers: Pay 200euro for base game, expansion packs and thousands for sub fee so its completely reasonable to have ingame shop with microtransactions.
>>318049919
(Note: I find actual pay-to-win/pay-to-cheat disgusting, but if someone's going to buy it, the companies will offer it.)
>>318047757
>When did this meme start?
It was never a defense of DLC in general.
It was a stance SPECIFICALLY regarding F2P PVP games, with the justification that (a) SOMETHING has to be for sale if the game is free, which means at least some content is behind paywalls, and (b) if gameplay-altering items are for sale, the game's competitive balance gets fucked because the people who win are just the people with the deepest pockets to buy uber-gear and dominate every match.
In that SPECIFIC scenario, players advocated and supported the sale of cosmetic items because it was understood that cosmetic items did indeed provide value which financed the game, while at the same time offering a balanced and fair PVP experience for ALL players, even free players.
>>318047757
who goes to a bar and orders two drinks for themself
>>318049526
Majority of the players who actually play fighting games do not care because in the end, you could just have different colored wireframes and they'd still play it just as much.
DoA is the only series I can really think off that consistently offered tons of costumes anyways, and they still do it but also have just as many or more as DLC. Street fighter, soul calibur, Tekken, always had maybe one or two extra costumes besides the player 2 version for specific characters but rarely the whole cast
>>318050540
You're supposed to order three.
One bourbon
One scotch
One beer
>>318049919
>production costs are stupid
That's such a meme. The Skyrim mod pages are full of content that were produced for literally nothing. Reductively, the most a company has to do is ask.
>remember when unlocking cosmetic shit was used to get you to play the game differently or even play parts of the game that you wouldn't spend time on usually
>>318050713
That's bad to the bone, desu
>>318050713
>>318050713
Only if you ain't seen your baby since you don't know when
>>318050748
What a dumb comment, anon you're fucking dumb.
>>318048585
It's essentially this.
Recent examples of a community backlash which had absolutely zero effect on the market was Evolve; that game bombed FUCKING hard due to it's overpriced, day 1 DLC, rape the consumer attitude - yet look at what SW: Battlefront is. It's the same shit. Ultimately, AAA developers and publishers (excluding a select few) will continue to fuck over the consumer because the average consumer is a mindless retard who is now used to getting nickleand dimed.
Sad shit. I wish to christ everyone pirated that piece of shit Fallout 4. What a fucking smack in the face that fucking thing is - you've only got to look on Steam to see how many mouth breathers bought that.
>>318050827
>remember when games were made by 6-man teams
We all remember when, anon, times have changed.
>>318050917
Stop buying AAA games altogether.
You'll be much happier
>>318047757
DOA fags in a nutshell.
>f2p game
>dev starts pay2dressup
>seems fine
>dev abandons the core game and devotes itself to pushing out costumes
its insane to think how much work goes into making a game which then gets thrown under the bus because they really should have spent their time making shitty flash dress up games for little girls instead
>m-muh production costs
too bad the consumer base hasn't grown at all, huh? AAA games getting 10million copies sold in the 90s were common place.
>>318047757
>Games used to include tons of costumes and shit for free, because it actually DOES matter.
Games (at least mainstream titles) have also become magnitudes more expensive to produce even when accounting for inflation. On top of that it is now expected that patches and updates and DLC will follow every game and that stuff costs money to make. Because of this increase in production costs vidya creators have tried to find other ways to monetize just to make sure they are making their money back.
Dont get me wrong, the DLC and cash shop stuff can get way way out of hand very easily and there are a lot of instances out there of blatant developer cash-grabbing bullshit. I am not claiming selling DLC/cosmetics is always justified/good. However instead of taking a black/white approach to this issue let's look at it with a bit of nuance. In some instances selling cosmetics is horse shit and in others its fairly justified.
Maybe the nuanced position isnt as satisfying, but it is much more reasonable.
>>318049919
>people still think money spent at marketing is the same as production-costs
kek
>>318050748
Time is a cost, so it's not 'nothing', per se.
I don't remember: was there some /v/-rage over Valve's treatment of models/maps made official, and how the creators were paid? I quit TF2 ages ago, but that model always stood out to me.
>>318051642
Fair enough. It's still inflated overall compared to base sale price on the A-level. Which I honestly thing is stupid, but perhaps it goes hand in hand with game expectations and the consoles themselves?
>>318047757
Thats only ok if the game is F2P, Overwatch has no excuse but you know how blizzdrones are, they would buy anything Blizzard shits.
I knew it was over after Blizzard North died.
>>318048585
this is a terrible thing
you can witness it in kids who struggle with maths and other shit at school.
"I can't do it, it's impossible"
Suddenly it's an excuse to not make an effort
>>318050917
>Evolve; that game bombed FUCKING hard due to it's overpriced, day 1 DLC
>yet look at what SW: Battlefront is. It's the same shit.
The difference is that Battlefront is enjoyable to play and Evolve was missing that little spark that made you want to come back and keep playing. If it weren't for the DLC Evolve still would have died a quiet death because pretty much everyone had the same reaction to the game, "why isnt this as fun as it seems like it should be?" If the game had been amazing and happened to have a shit ton of dlc there would have been some outcry but mostly praise. However a game that simply wasn't enjoyable AND had hundreds of dollars of day one DLC? Thats the perfect failure.
>>318049919
>le ebin production costs may may
The reason they are high is because companies are lazy. They make reskinned call of duty games which are shit for little effort than blow a billion dollar ad campaign hyping shit game up.
>>318047757
>When did this meme start?
It's not a meme you dip
It's also true. Non-vital cosmetic items are fine to be sold by the dev. Eat a dick faggot.
>>318049919
>production costs are stupid in this day and age
Then stop hiring Hollywood actors to do mocap and voice acting. "Graphics" don't cost.
>>318051642
We live in a world where marketing is a necessity. Some companies take it too far or do it wrong, but a reasonably sized marketing budget is simply a fact of life in our economy/culture
>>318047757
Why did you add "weird modifiers etc," in your post? Is it because you know your post is wrong so you had to add something irrevelant to make it right?
Pathetic.
>>318052153
>Then stop hiring Hollywood actors to do mocap and voice acting. "Graphics" don't cost.
if you think thats where the lions share of development money goes im not sure what to even say to you. Look up even the most basic information on vidya production, it may surprise you
It's okay for a F2P game. Gotta make a living somehow. Bonus points if you can also get them in-game without paying.
It's unacceptable for a game that already costs money, and double unacceptable for a game that already costs money AND has a sub fee.
>>318047757
>weird modifiers
>etc
>cheats
Wow, it's almost as if none of those are cosmetics. Kill yourself.
>>318052010
>Battlefront is enjoyable to play
For the first 15 minutes. It's shallow as fuck.
I love how when this topic comes up no one ever shits on Valve despite them doing the same shit (even starting some of the trends supporting this)
valvedrones everyone
I wish skins were $1. I would actually buy some if they were that cheap because that's a reasonable price.
Try mobas where the skins are like $8-20.
People want everything free that's the problem.
>abloo bloo overwatch/star wars costs money why isn't it free like the eyesore that is current TF2 or Dota 2
>>318052201
Boob sliders aren't wrong, you neo-puritan. Eat shit.
>>318052201
>>318052090
Asshurt indie devs trying to grub for every shekel.
Cosmetics like costumes in MMOs are totally fine, OP. Unless they are planned to be released along with the game, its fine to have them priced. Its optional anyway, so why do you care?
2015: Tripwire, Creative Studios, even Fucking Ubisoft and the free beta they can't start. Let's face it: no one should trust a game company anymore. It's got so bad now you're only safe bet is to treat them like the scum bags they are.
No dev, no publisher should be considered as anything but a con artist given the behavior of that industry the last few years. They will do anything to rip us off some more and then pay arseholes to try and convince us it is our fault we don't want to give them money for being shit.
My new years resolution is not to buy a single fucking game and finish off my back catalogue. Hopefully a few of the cunts will go under and we can start again.
>>318047757
>loved collecting all the costumes in older Tales games because they were usually accompanied by fun little side quests to get the outfit and each character would get like six different costumes
>current Tales games pretty much completely scrapped this making majority of the different costumes DLC while most of the stuff you unlock in the games are just lazy recolors of the starting outfit
>>318047757
repeat someone their are idiots enough times and they will eventually believe it
>>318051559
Patches and updates and DLC are only "expected" because:
1. The game is allowed to launch with a myriad of bugs and glitches in order to meet deadlines
2. Much of the game's planned or half-finished content is not completed upon release, and it's more fiscally advantageous to withhold this content and sell it for additional cost.
If these "expectations" we're satisfied upon release, the only additional cost to development would be additional, supplemental DLC content, that fans would be more than happy to pay for, because hey. If the game released and was polished and finished with 60$ worth of play, nobody is going to complain about getting more of the same quality game for additional cost.
>>318047757
Clearly someone hasn't played Path of Exile here.
>>318052010
>The difference is that Battlefront is enjoyable to play
No, fuckwit, the difference is Battlefront was working with an established IP and had Electronic "Satan" Arts doing the marketing on the sides of trains, while Evolve got some youtube videos tops
They're equally shallow games
I think there's a balance to be struck. Cosmetic DLC is okay if there's already enough shit in the base game that it doesn't feel barebones, but if it's the only way to get cosmetics then it can be a problem.
For example the Tales series is generally expected to have costumes and they started selling DLC costumes in Graces f. In Graces f I don't consider it a problem, because there are already lots of costumes in the game. Same goes for Xillia 2, to some extent. But in Xillia 1 it's bullshit, because there are only like three costumes in the entire base game and everything else is DLC.
It's always just a matter of making the base game feel like a complete package that's worth the money. If the base game feels complete then as far as I'm concerned they can sell as much cosmetic nonsense as they want.
>>318054112
The balance that was to be struck was lost a few years back. You can't blame people for trying to make money, but when you consistently use things like chopping out chunks of game, adding fucking crate systems, spending a fortune on a starwars only to produce a game worse than Battlefront from a decade or so ago, it's just so out of control games companies need to go.
Video game news these days is basically like watching those undercover documentaries about mechanics and tradesmen who do no/shoddy work and charge a fortune to the unsuspecting customer.
>>318047757
For a singleplayer game I dislike it. For a F2P game it's one of the few monetization schemes that isn't pay to win.
>>318054679
Yeah. I was speaking generally in that post but if we're looking at how most games are nowadays, I would say the majority of them fail to hit that balance. Games that are planned with DLC in mind these days tend to not feel like complete packages at all.
Basically the industry has taken something that was not inherently bad and shat it up. As it usually does.
>when did this meme start?
Like 5 years ago.
This heavily depends on the genre of the game. Skins and cosmetics in a FPS game are acceptably, but unforgivable in a MMO unless the game is F2P.
>>318052498
I wonder who could be behind this post.
>>318052498
I'd settle for what I've paid for desu at this point, at least try. I'm not unreasonable to expect shit to actually work, just try and make it decent and not come crying when you fuck your original business model up
between when regular artwork for the game is done and the game is finished on the programming side, debugging, etc, im ok with the artists making up new skins and shit and selling them/making them for pre orders/day 1 purchasers/new copy purchasers to incentivize them
>>318047757
It is bullshit.
I can buy a game like Bayonetta 2 right now and it comes with tons of costumes for free.
Why are others offering less while asking for more money?
They removed actual content that used to be a reward for doing shit ingame and now sell it to you.
Then they fill that void it leaves with shitty pointless achievements.
>>318050262
Give an inch, get fucked by a mile. Arguing over a SPECIFIC context gave the soulless corporate army all the precedent they needed to ream our collective asses for the coming decades.
I think the cosmetic buying shit is pretty cool.
Like you get the game for free and if you like it you can pay the same amount you would for a non-free game and actually get some extra content out of it, even if it is just a different colored ass.
I don't like when there's basically no customization if you don't pay money though. Like if all you can do is change colors but not what you're actually wearing, that's pretty boring.
Also if it's a singleplayer game that you have to actually buy beforehand that's trying to sell you costumes that shit is just retarded.
Console fags mostly, they love getting raped in the ass that when dlc was first introduced it exploded.
>>318047757
more of her please
