What exactly is a good scare?
faggots keep saying "all jump scares are bad"
then what is the alternative? like..creepy shit like the random faces appearing in exorcist? without sound?
what the hell other kinds of scares even are there?
goddamn autistic /v/
>>258892052
First jumpscare I saw in a while was in P.T and big part of it was there as no fucking music leading up to it that peaks and basically acts as a countdown to the scare, as is normal in games/films these days.
Seriously, who thought big suspense building music was a good idea to lead up to a jump scare, because it being perfectly timed is basically saying HERE IS THE SCARE BRACE YOURSELVES.
Feelings of anxiety and despair. Doesn't matter what kind of scare, as long as it gives you said feelings. Naturally, that varies between people, so that's why some shit on X type scare and others on Y type scare.
![8uQQn[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/N9dZFww.jpg "8uQQn[1].jpg")
I think "jump scare" is a bit of an oxymoron, since scares are, at least to my knowledge, abrubt by nature. I think there is a higher form of horror than just throwing scares at the player/audience, as in creating an atmosphere of fear that sticks with you through the entire experience, which may or may not include scares.
>>258892052
Take your pic for example. 5NAF would still be plenty scary if the robots didn't all pop up and make that fucking SCREEEE sound when they grab you.
Let's say you run out of power. Same thing happens as in the regular game up to a point. Toredores starts playing, you see the eyes, then everything goes dark and quiet. All you can hear are occasional footsteps and Freddy's "dum dee dum". Then a robot or two walks in and grabs you. Hell, they could even still pop up if they want, but instead of the camera just going to static, how about showing you getting dragged off and/or shoved into a suit. Maybe something gory like the stroggification in Quake 4.
About FN@F, it was actually good at building atmosphere. But five nights wears on the gimmick pretty quick. It's either having multiple nights or having jack shit in content. At least you can dick around with the bot AI at the end so there's some replay value (in a game sense)
In a general sense atmosphere > "jump scares", but it's more of whether you want the feeling to be immediate or to wear on you slowly over time.
>>258892052
thats nice.
where the vore at?
So there are good jumpscares that involve atmosphere, okay then where does it go from there? Cause the best scares are still jumpscares, they just had good buildup, how can you just have eerie atmosphere that goes nowhere?
The jumpscare is like the punchline.
>Playing Silent Hill 2
>Walking into restroom
>Notice one of the restroom stalls are closed
>Talk to door
>"There's no on in here"
>Walk off, nothing happens
>Second play through
>Do the same thing
>Walk away
>A huge scream and a sound of someone banging the restroom door occurs
It scared me.
>>258894364
But that's not scary, it's just a visual of what is implied.
>>258892052
Suspense and surprise. It's 4chan arguing for the sake of arguing. Fear is subjective and thus no definite answer.
Just lots of tension, suspense and atmosphere building is good. Even better if there's no climax to it and it's just left hanging.
>>258895047
>But that's not scary,
The SCRREEEE and pop up isn't very scary either. It's just startling. You could play any loud noise after a sudden relative quiet and achieve the same effect.
>>258892052
The tone/atmosphere leading up to the scare needs to be consistent with the rest of the game. If the whole game has been action-oriented, then when things get peaceful you know there is going to be a scare.
Was anyone truly scared when playing Silent Hill games? Or were they just "omg this is kinda spooky", and then went on to rave about it because it was a good experience, and just claiming that it was scary on some level?
Only time I remember getting scared was silent hill 4, when I looked out the window and a bunny head just randomly floats by the window, there was no sound but it was a jumpscare because there was no reason to see it coming, and I remember that more than pretty much anything in the whole silent hill series.
>>258895195
And you are entirely right, the sound is just another cue for alarm.
>>258892052
The best scares come from making you feel comfortable.
>playing re2
>enter the two-way mirror rooms plenty of times
>both sides are clear of enemies
>eventually gain acess to an item on the side with the reflective mirror(can't see what's on the other side)
>fucking licker pops out of the mirror and wrecks me
The Penumbra games from the developer behind amnesia are fucking good. The first one relies on a really shitty combat system a little too much but other than that they're damn good. I personally was massively disappointed by amnesia. Didn't find it scary at all as it was pretty obvious when anything at all scary was about to happen.
>>258892052
Things can be scary without jumping out at you. Know when that asshole friend sneaks up on you and goes boo? that's a cheap scare anyone can do.
Pic related creeped me out when I first saw it
>>258895429
oh hell yeah
the body falling in the other school in SH1
The random stomp noises in the other hospital in SH1
The manequinn scene in SH3, i was like OHFUCKOHFUCKOHFUCK
the prison bath room stomp scene in sh2
a lot of moments
>>258892052
1. Things far off or in the background that you notice and it makes you spooked. (Whenyouseeit.jpg)
2. Static jump-scares. As in, you climb up a ladder, and ohfuckshesstandingatthetop. Not bullshit jump scares where they jump out at you. That's just cheap scares.
Jump scares are a brief moment of fear followed by limitless being-mad for me. It's like fear-rape.
When a game/movie/story sucks you in with an unsettling mood and keeps you on-edge the whole time, that's awesome. Fear-foreplay. Every story gets one jump-scare and it needs to earn it. Otherwise it's a waste of everyone's time.
Having a game being called scary for having a jump scare is like saying a person is funny because they can bend over and fart. Anyone can do it.
>>258892052
Nothing wrong with jumpscares it's just the way they're overused.
>walk into dark room
>creepy face appears and screams.
versus.
>walk into dark room
>Hear ambient sounds
>keep walking into more creepy shit
>leave room
>suddenly creepy face appears from the back, makes it's way to the camera and screams.
It's about the effort to scare you rather than just scaring you.
>>258892052
>>258893902
jesus christ, /v/ doesn't even know what being scared is
i guess this is what happens when people think horror is shit like paranormal activity
>>258898362
What is Cry of Fear?
>>258892052
Scary games are difficult to make, but Jump scares arent scary. They make you jump, not scared. You shouldnt be making horror games if you cant make horror.
One good tactic I know to scare people is to put them under tension, a lot of tension. Have a character following you, and you need to perform some kind of action thats very clunky and fidgety. So for example, you got this big guy coming for you. You need to lock to the door, you can see him getting closer, you try to pull up the lock but it slips down. He's getting far too close. Its that last second type thing thats really scary.
A good example Im sure we've all experienced. Swimming through shark waters onto a boat. Theres so much of that last second tension, and its pretty terrifying
Jumpscares alone aren't what make a horror game scary, and they don't make a horror game bad. I think that FN@F is an excellent horror game because of the sense of unease and paranoia you get throughout, trying to AVOID the jumpscares.
The jumpscares are punishment for losing. You never get them for no reason. They're only there to facilitate the fear and tension in the rest of the game.
>>258899137
>A good example Im sure we've all experienced. Swimming through shark waters onto a boat.
>we've all experienced
Experienced in a game?
Why not use a wooden door then?
>>258899326
Far cry 3 is the only one I can think of on the top of my head. GTA V does it as well I think, and those arent even horror
The only people who complain about jump scares are the pussies who are looking for an excuse to not play a spooky game. If it wouldn't be jump scares, they'd have a different excuse to not play
>>258899468
The way he said it, it almost sounded like he had experienced swimming through shark infested waters, and assumed most people had done the same.
>>258894601
>Asking for vore
>In a game about being crammed through wiring.
You're a dumbass.
>>258899468
Banjo-kazooie. Though it's not a boat. Scary as fuck.
There are times when Nemesis on RE3 just jumps out of a window out of nowhere to fight you. Thats an actual good jump scare because there was no JUMP SCARE MUSIC but most important because by then you alrready are afraid of Nemesis. Later on you hear he banging in a door then he says STARS and just leaves, you shit yourself because you know he found a way to get to you
>>258899137
If a game has a jump scare, you can't write it off as a bad horror game. And the thinking causing the jump scare could be horrific.
The scare of impending doom. Knowing you're solemnly fucked and not being able to do anything about it.
Pretty much the key element of every successful survival horror game out there. Being constantly on edge because you know you'll die eventually, but you don't know at which corner.
>>258892052
Jumpscares are good in moderation. When a game relies only on jump scares, that's when it sucks though. Real scary is when you expect the jump, but it never happens, leaving you tense and on edge.
>>258899686
well that just depends on the art made for it.
knot my fault you hate it.
>>258899742
>A jump scare
No, that doesnt make it a bad game, as long as thats not the primary mechanic that it uses to make it scary
>>258899713
Well exactly, it can be just anything that gives you just seconds to get away, especially if the ways of getting away are clunky and fidgety
Jump scares need to be built off of tension
Tension is what makes a game good
Name the best part of Dead Space 2, most people would say the return to the Ishimura. Why? Because you're walking through empty halls that you've been through before, waiting for something to come out, you go through most of the ship before you even encounter an enemy. But you get the feeling that they're somewhere in there.
Modern horror games don't understand tension, they think that all they need to do is throw something at you from a closet and all of the sudden you're scared.
Five nights does it well, because it builds up this tension of watching the enemies, and the jump scare comes from the culmination of everything.
Slender does it poorly, because it's just LOL SPOOPY SCARE out of nowhere.
>>258894601
*gore
I was honestly hoping that there would be more art of the security guard getting forced into a suit and having his eyeballs pop out the front. Or Foxy bitting some little shit's head off during the Bite of '87
>>258899815
You know it's funny that while Five Nights at Freddy's has jump scares, it's more unnerving to know that they are moving your way but you can't anticipate how quickly. Foxy is a wonderful feature because you have to watch him but not too much and he'll come charging. His scare isn't so much of a jump scare though as knowing you fucked up.
>>258899960
>Knot
furry pls.
This guy is mad as fuck
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0AFqLV7tYM
>>258900043
The thing I personally hated about five nights is the movement of the characters at the end, when they kill you. They start off with very slow, mechanical and unnatural movements, like an old machine should be. By the end, they are moving too human like, all springy and smooth. It doesnt fit the theme for me, they feel too alive, which just ruins it for me.
If the character just slowly inched into the room, staring at you, and then just knocked you out with a thud, that'd be much more freaky that a quick and fluent jump
>>258900187
>>258892052
one good way to be scary is to take all of the power away from the player. a run and hide scenario with an unkillable mosnter can be terrifying without having any jump at all. being hunted or chased is scary as fuck if you do it right.
![2D11462485-140129-shining-twins.blocks_desktop_large[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/7NITkrf.jpg "2D11462485-140129-shining-twins.blocks_desktop_large[1].jpg")
>like..creepy shit like the random faces appearing in exorcist? without sound?
Considering that the Exorcist is the greatest horror film of all time, yes. Hell, even The Shining did that equally as good. You don't need a loud scream to make people scared, a silent but quick flash at something disturbing is much more scary than any screamer or jump scare ever.
Video games can easily the same things as this, but they refuse to for no reason:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TD0RJ_iuBPo
Just something unexpected.
For example, while not really a scary game, when you're just doing a seemingly calm swim level in Alice...a giant fuckin fish out of nowhere with a loud noise to accompany it..that's a pretty good scare, nothing to really make you scream..but a good startle.
someone needs to make a FN@F mod or something
when the game was first described to me I pictured a 3D game where you move around and shit, I was so pumped
I'm assuming no horror survival games exist like this?
>>258894940
Games that save shit for second/third/fourth playthroughs are the best.
>>258900342
>Open video
>keep advancing it by about 30 seconds
>"Jumpscare"
>"Jumpscare"
>"Jumpscare.."
This guy is REALLY afraid of jump scares.
>>258900580
Well I see jump scares as a release of tension, so that's why a mix of what you are talking about and the eventual release are important together. It's like a coiled snake.
>>258900527
Once again though, like jump scares, that cannot be the primary scare mechanic. Having it in the game, like jump scares, is great, but if the game is classed as horror for that mechanic alone, its unlikely to get many scares, out of me at least. (Not implying Im a braver person than most)
>>258900580
giant face in SH4 was pretty spooky, people always talk about that one
>>258892052
Dead Space imo did good scares well. The spooky thing in that game was not the jumpscares, which did exist and sometimes popped up, but the overall ambiance and situation around you.
Throughout the entirety of the game you can hear these ambient noises, like Necros crawling through walls, whispers, screams in the distance and a bunch of other shit, setting up a real nice spooky mood when coupled with the blood and the writing on the walls of the ship.
Scares in that game also come from shadows or hallucinations, which makes you wonder 'shit is that thing real or am I gonna waste my already shitty resources?'
I don't think you could say Dead Space was the SCARIESTGAMEOMG but it was a good contender if you set the sound up high and listened to everything the game had to offer.
>>258900801
No, he's bitching about them the whole time.
>>258899960
Hows it feel being a retard
>>258901157
I know, he's that afraid of getting jumpscared that he's going to spend the whole time bitching about it
>>258901021
There was also the bag in RE4. More people talked about that bag than the spooky face regenerator right around the corner from it.
Sadly, this is a rare thing for games to do... I just don't understand why.
>>258892052
Outlast is alot better, it's alot scarier. This game is good but it isn't the best in years get that shit out of here.
>>258901063
I have Dead Space 1 and 2 on my backlog and I'm so excited to play them, might even start tonight.
>>258901227
pretty arousing.
>>258901063
This. I think Dead Space was a damn good combination of scary and exciting
When your game is just the anticipation of jump scares it's shit
>>258900154
I like how no matter what letting Foxy out is a punishment, even if you slam the door on him, there is extra energy drain for the failure.
Take Dead Space 1 for an example. People who didn't play it say it's a carnival haunted house with nothing but jumpscares, but those who played it know the feeling of dread and paranoia that entering a new place gave.
Also, what other kind of scare there is? Look at this little gem in Dead Space 1. It doesn't attack you, it doesn't harm you in any way, it doesn't even jump at you.
And yet ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Lxqgd4-Q8E
>Creepy images of the monsters just staring at you
>You have to track their movements and watch as they slowly get closer and closer to you
>You have limited power, so your only defense against them is finite.
>Only when you die do you get a screamer, or 'jump scare'
>HURR THIS GAME IS NOTHING BUT JUMP SCARES.
>>258901063
In my opinion Dead Space is the best new IP of the last gen, and 1 and 2 are the best action horror games made.
The proper way to do jumpscares is to limit them. That's it.
One or two good jump scares at the beginning of the game will knock the player off guard, and from then on everytime they hear an extra footstep, or barely see something out of the corner of their eye they'll get scared on their own. Jump scares are great to help establish an atmosphere, but can't be the primary mechanic of the game.
>>258901529
>Playing dead space 1
>Going down a hallway
>No sound que
>No creepy music
>No bodies passed
>Nothing our of the ordinary
>I- I better check behind me, just incase..
Fuck that game.
>>258900123
I would like to see some gore also.
>>258901557
You have to admit that without the jumpscares the game would be so much better.
Like once the animatronics appear inside the room and you see them the game cuts to black and then goes to the game over screen.
It'd be much creepier and less heart attack inducing.
![ThingPoster[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/JAONMWF.jpg "ThingPoster[1].jpg")
Jump scares DO make shitty horror.
If you want a film example of amazing tension building / horror moments look at a movie like The Thing. It arguably has just one jump scare that is so well done and integral to the context of the scene that it's passable though.
If you want a video game example of horror without jump scares you can look at System Shock.
>>258898535
Horror should have things you are generally scared of instead of cheap scares, something with actual subctance and alot of work put into it. Like outlast, which is a way better horror game.
>>258901557
Well thats because thats really what the core horror mechanic is. Take out the jump scares and its a freaky game but isnt really scary. I mean with them in it isnt scary, it just makes you jump
>>258900527
>one good way to be scary is to take all of the power away from the player. a run and hide scenario with an unkillable mosnter can be terrifying without having any jump at all. being hunted or chased is scary as fuck if you do it right.
I almost completely disagree. Introducing an unkillable monster in a game of killable monsters can be a good mechanic, because you have a point of comparison - this is the one you can't kill, and if you can't kill it, that implies it's here to completely fuck your shit up.
If the entire game is Amnesia-tier run from the spooky walking game over screen, it completely takes everything out of the game for me. I feel very aware that I'm playing a videogame with a game over mechanic should I fail to move to the designated hiding point or what-have-you in order to escape the monster. Player agency is important, and neutering that player agency to give a feeling of impotency in the face of a new threat is a great way to inject fear into the player.
>>258901529
The best thing about Dead Space was that even though that guy was dead, you'd second guess it because he could turn into a necromorph at any second
Shit was great
>>258892052
For example, sneaking around a house where a being is actively searching for you. If you get caught, it's game over.
If it's done right, not a single jump scare is required.
>>258895429
The mirror in SH3. That was probably the most terrified I've ever been of a work of fiction.
>>258901842
>Bawww I hate loud noises
Fuck off pussy
The most spooked I have ever been was a survival horror game on the original xbox, you were in a haunted prison or something and there were creatures with blades for arms and shit that did this really unsettling crawling animation
I can't remember the name, I think I've mostly blocked it from my memory
But I don't recall that many jump scares, it was more genuinely unsettling stuff, and just barely seeing things out of the corner of your eye.
>>258901871
...Ain't Outlast 90% jumpscares though? It has the atmosphere inbetween to rile your pulse up... and then.... JUMPSCARE!
>>258901842
As I also said to someone, dont you find their movement kind of annoying. These are supposed to be old, clunky machines, and they act and sound like that, until they get you, at which point suddenly they become all loose and springy and smooth, like a human would move.
Its like, they are supposed to move like a slower, more sinister C3PO. Imagine C3PO moving like a human, without those stiff joints, it wouldnt produce the same, roboty effect
>>258901889
False, the fact that your doom is impending from the start of the game is the core horror mechanic.
>>258901846
There are jump scares in The Thing though. Granted it's an awesome movie, they are still there. The defib scene is one that I can immediately thing of.
>>258897015
Playing off the primal, subconscious fear of things that might be poisonous isn't any more clever than jump scares. Especially when you encounter one that's big enough to kill and/or eat you (or your avatar).
This is an example of a proper jump scare.
>>258901302
It takes good design to pull those kinds of things off more than once, and it also takes context to do it often.
Silent Hill gets away with it due to The Otherworld, meaning weird, creepy yet fascinating shit can appear there and you can feel conflicting emotions of fascination and terror by looking at the crazy shit you find in the environment.
Finding things like the bag in RE4 that is too small to be an adult human, and writhes around like crazy until you shoot it, with no real explanation as to what the cock that was - those come out of seemingly nowhere and aren't fully explained or mentioned again. That's why they're memorable. You've already experienced your first regenerator, and now they have the context of being an enemy by that point. The bag? Straight outta strangetown.
>>258901846
This movie is so fucking overrated. Alien does what it does far better.
>>258902330
Yeah the defib scene is what I was referencing with
>It arguably has just one jump scare that is so well done and integral to the context of the scene that it's passable though.
>>258902228
>Ain't Outlast 90% jumpscares though?
Yes
>>258902408
That's a dinosaur.
Why are there Outlast shills every time horror is mentioned?
It's not even that scary.
>>258902190
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Suffering_(video_game)
Was it this?
>>258892052
>faggots keep saying "all jump scares are bad"
I think I disagree. Jump scares can work really well. The trick is to build a menacing atmosphere and then give a jump. Then the person watching/playing gets used to the buildup and then the payoff. They become accustomed to the rhythm, it stops getting scary and you switch it up on them. Right after they come down from a jump scare, hit them again, harder. They aren't ready for it. Or maybe just have no jump at all.
Jump scares fail when the player can predict them or when the correct amount of tension hasn't been built.
>>258902245
Not really, in most modern games there is an enemy, in a lot of them impending doom, without it being horror. They need to make the actual enemies scary, and jump scares is the cheap way to do that. You're saying that if you replace the animatronics with zombies, it would produce the same horror effect
>>258895429
When I was 13 and played SH 1 I was too scared to go through any of the sections where it was just you in the dark with a flashlight and the radio had almost constant static.
>>258892052
A guy once said that there MUST be jump scares because otherwise if the player know there are none he wouldn't get scared just by the atmosphere, but I'm a pussy so even if there are no jump scares and only creepy atmosphere I would still keep shitting myself the whole way through.
Just wanted to make a note that a game doesn't have to have scares to be scary.
On another note, my favorite type is the scare the player creates himself. Just add an enemy, some steps and breathing SFX and stuff like that, and no need to pre-program jump scares, just let the player accidentally find the monster after opening a door or peaking through a crack in the wall and you don't even need to make the monster roar or anything, scare 100% guaranteed. Even if they never look at it, the SFX will make they constantly alert about the presense of the monster, which is tense as fuck.
>>258902190
>>258902562
yep. that game was fucked.
>>258902514
I liked this scene http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lD3gie272Po
but otherwise I agree
>>258894601
Are you that endo guy from the Tower Quest threads?
>>258902683
Haven't played it, but I have to say it has some REALLY fucking good enemy designs.
>>258900342
I normally like Leo's stuff, but him recording his gameplay footage followed by clearly recording his dialogue afterwards is a really shitty way to try and get his point across.
I've played FN@F to the 7th night and watched a fair few streams, and some of the scares still get me sometimes. For Leo to be acting like he's the goddamn Fonz and saying "Oh wow, a jumpscare, pfft try harder kiddo" is really lame. I understand the point he's trying to get across, but he could be less fucking lazy and try reviewing the damn thing instead of pretending that this is legit footage.And if by some ridiculous turn of events it actually is real footage, he's too desensitised to jumpscares and I feel bad for his overall horror experience.
>>258902190
the suffering?
>>258902637
False, in your typical horror game enemies can kill you, but there are relative safe spots. You clear a hall way and you know nothing more is going to spawn and come spook you.
The core spook mechanic in this is not the jump scare, it's the fact that something is coming to fuck you from the moment the game starts and you cant stop it, you can only stave it off with finite battery power.
Game over screen =/= core mechanic.
>>258901901
Take The Hunter from Dead Space 1 as an example. The one monster you can't kill by any usual means, because he always regenerates.
Or the Regenerator from RE4.
(Although to a lesser extent) The Tank from L4D.
Or the all time classic ... (picture related)
Adding invincible monsters out of nowhere can really fuck with a player's mind. When you finally get used to fighting in a horror game, most of the horror disappears. Throwing a "real" monster will give the player a renewed sense of fear, because now he's back to running.
>>258892052
I can't remember the name of it, but there was an RPGmaker game where you ran from a big blue asshole. The scare wasn't a "OOGA BOOGA BOOGA WHERE ALL THE MEXICAN WOMEN AT" scare, you were constantly being pursued and you had no idea when or where it would catch up to you.
I want a game where you are constantly being pursued, and you have to outrun the monster, but it always knows where you are, and all you can do is try to buy time to escape.
Atmosphere is the best kind of horror. Let the player become scared of the environment, and their own abilities, like in real life. STALKER and shit like Call of Cthulhu DCotR will always be the superior horror games to shit like Outlast.
>>258892052
People who say they don't like jump scares are faggots that want to prove they're tough but still get startled by them and hate it.
It's stupid because it is a scare they just don't like that they can't keep calm when it happens.
>>258902964
But as I said, thats not a horror mechanic, thats just the game mechanic. That doesnt make the game a horror, as I said replace that with zombies and it doesnt produce the same effect. DayZ isnt a horror, but you cannot stop the zombies, since they respawn. You cant win, you can just stave off death. Minecraft isnt a horror, but you will eventually die, you just fight off death. I agree its something that is a good tactic for horrors, but it cant be the primary horror mechanic
I need clarification. Is this a 5N@F thread, or a general horror thread?
>>258903097
The problem with those enemies is that the fail to instill a sense of horror, so much as a sense of urgency. You want to get out of the room because you know it will be game over if you dont, not because holy fuck thats a creepy fucker.
>>258902514
Outlast devs trying to force their shitty game on /v/
I used as an example of how horror games should not be done.
Predictable, boring as fuck, you can evade anyone pursuing you easily by passing them by the right.
Excellent graphics though, especially for the snow, and the most detailed penises you will find in vidya. That said, it is a shitty game.
>>258903437
Read the post before looking at the picture, every time.
>>258903175
Ao Oni
>>258903437
General horror. We have enough FN@F threads man. Even a fast-moving general.
![173[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/lDKJpSB.jpg "173[1].jpg")
>>258899137
>One good tactic I know to scare people is to put them under tension, a lot of tension. Have a character following you, and you need to perform some kind of action thats very clunky and fidgety
Reminded me of SCP Containment Breach. While blinking is just matter of pressing the space bar (or waiting until the auto-blink timer runs out) you're forced to have your focus on the thing at all times. You can never ignore the fact that you're being followed by two fuckers who play by completely different rules in addition to having all the other mystical and dangerous shit down there with you as well.
It's not just enough to randomly run away or hide in one room since then the other SCPs will just have their way with you. Players has to be constantly on the move.
>>258903175
Ao Oni
>>258903563
Yes, thank you.
>>258900801
Wow that guy is a fucking nob.
He did nothing but bitch about it the whole time. I also like him whining about how he got "Scammed" out of 5 whole dollarydoos
>>258895195
It's causes fright and alarm and that's the definition of scary. Just admit that what you want is an uneasy feeling in games and you don't know what scary means.
>>258903454
>and the most detailed penises you will find in vidya
Literally the only good thing about it.
Jumpscares are just part of your arsenal when you're making a horror game. You shouldn't rely on them, but they're not inherently bad.
>>258903409
I simply disagree with you in this regard Anon. Be them zombies or not, is irrelevant. In every single game you mentioned, you can kill the enemy. You cannot kill the enemy in Five Nights. You'll never fully neutralize the threat of enemies in DayZ or Minecrat, they will always be coming. But you can defeat the mob and be relatively safe for a time. There is no saftey in Five Nights, they are coming and you can't kill them, you can only hope to survive until the night ends. This is the core horror mechanic.
Like I said, I don't think we're going to be able to agree on this issue.
>>258903594
Exactly, its the fact that you have to be performing a task, in a hurry, while being chased. And it needs to have just seconds between being killed and winning.
>>258902434
seriously? the thing absolutely shits on alien in every conceivable way
I think you have garbage taste
>>258895195
>You could play any loud noise after a sudden relative quiet and achieve the same effect.
No you fucking couldn't.
All that creepiness that a game plays up? It's to make you scared that something is going to jump at you, and by having a game actually produce a jumpscare not only works as a playoff for the atmosphere that was built (as >>258894913 says jumpscares are the punchline). But it then validates that fear as you re-continue playing.
my fear for the deep sea comes from playing Ecco at a young age, and the fear being further solidified from Ape Escape in one of the beginning worlds where you have to cross a lake with a gigantic electric fishing hunting you downand near the end of the lake you can see another humongous fish all the way at the bottom of the lake, ot doesnt do shit though but sit there, if you swim to it's depths though it will harm you
what i'm saying is, we need more games that has water horror in it
>>258899686
sadpanda at?
>>258903879
I for onelike them both.
>>258903838
But the inability to kill an enemy doesnt make a game horror, at least not in my opinion. But your right, its different opinions on whats scary, and I dont think we'll agree.
>>258903441
I think that one's pretty subjective.
Every Regenerator I faced my first playthrough (and on the first few subsequent times through) of RE4 spooked the absolute shit out of me. The twitching, the breathing, the not-quite-human-but-that-thing-must-have-been-fucking-human design. I wanted that shit dead.
Especially when you get locked in the freezer with one and HAVE to take it out. Your fight-or-flight instinct immediately gets kicked in the balls and you have to fight or get fucked, and when I didn't wanna be anywhere near one of those messed up things, that really screwed with me.
>>258903409
Is this bait, or are you really this retarded?
>>258901871
>IT ISN'T SCARY! I ONLY JUMPED!!! THATS NOT SCARY!!!
>>258895195
But with the 90s'-esque pre-rendered graphics, they couldn't possibly make a gory scene that's realistic and not ridiculously fake looking. It's better to leave it to your imagination.
>>258894364
STROG WIN!
YES! YES! YES!
>>258892052
an incredibly creepy, unnerving, disturbing atmosphere. with, for example, monsters that appear in the far distance closing up on you fast, instead of instantly popping up in front of you.
basically, like most horror games act bar the jump scares to rustle my autism.
>>258904162
Well are you going to put forward a convincing argument against it or just call me names
>>258904178
stop
>>258903732
I think you are confused. Suprise =/= fear, it never has and never will. Let's say you hear glass break late at night, the sound of the glass breaking surprised and startled you... but the thought of who/what caused that to happen and what the intention is is scary
>>258903441
Deep down, a good horror game should make you feel that. If you're audacious enough, given the choice to fight or run, you'll always choose fight, because there's a chance. But when a game forces you to run, takes away all your power and makes you feel the thrill of being hunted, that's when biological horror comes into play. The fear of death.
It's essentially forcing the player into a Fight of Flight response.
Except, of course, you can't fight.
You can only run.
>>258903761
youve always been a slut, marry me
>>258903948
>Play WoW
>Under water
>Get to the edge of the zone
>There is a tench that just drops off for miles.
>Fuck it, I'm going in
>10 minutes later
>Water is murky as fuck
>Can't even see the surface anymore
>'Stamina' bar appears over me indicating I'm going to die
>Keep going down
>My fucking face the whole time
I didn't know what I was expecting to see down there, but just going made me nervous as all fuck
>>258903858
This only works if it's set up within gameplay.
The worst is when you have a scripted chase that ends in a cutscene of you slamming a door where you haven't actually done anything but reach the goal point, and the only real way to fail the chase is to stop entirely.
Introducing something big and fucking dangerous in that the only thing your character can now do is RUN is a pretty good way to instill dread. The Bear from Condemned 2 is a good example.
I.E:
>It's a fucking bear.
>You are in a restaurant full of tables between you and the staircase up.
>Run.
I've always been spooked when you return to an area that was safe or "normal" previously but it's been changed to become scary
Japanese type horror like random faces appearing in the darkness is pretty spooky too
>>258904178
>tits
Incorrect.
>>258902471
So your post that was arguing that jump scares made for shitty horror, proceeds to argue that a jump scare can be well done and work? Nice one.
>>258904178
I hate you people.
Nothing is scary without jumpscares. Even legendary horror games like Silent Hill and Resident Evil relied on them.
If nothing can get you at any time, it's not horror. Real fear is knowing that you can jumped at any time. Otherwise, you can just waltz through the game with a positive attitude.
>>258904350
I am deeply convinced you are retarded, given you cannot tell between an intended atmosphere of peril, and a game over screen.
>>258902190
i agree, not a ton of things attempting to startle you, but just a very grimy, dirty feeling, like a ball in your stomach. the suffering did that feeling very well, surrounded by some of the sickest characters in gaming
Good scares are psychological scares. Try out Silent Hill 2, very little about the game is jump scares and it's more about going into rooms you don't want to go into, seeing the scenery around you change, walking past a "dead body" on the ground multiple times, etc.
>>258904178
>>258904650
But Resident Evil and Silent Hill had safe areas you retard...
>>258904591
Yes, I completely agree, you must have the ability to lose, so it cant be scripted.
>>258904660
So you're not gonna be able to put forward a valid argument.
Thought not
>>258904401
I can't really agree with this at all. Sure it all sounds good on paper, but in real life you don't get a fight or flight response after the first meeting with an invincible enemy, you get a "Fuck, I hate these annoying sections" response from essentially having a time escape objective.
>>258904178
>>258902228
>>258902486
Have you guys even played it? There's alot of good horror and not many jumps at all
>>258904534
someone post the picture
you know the one.
>>258904650
But you're implying that you know in advance whether or not something can "get you". I mean, you can, but that'd mean you read spoilers about the game or you played it before, which kind of defeats the purpose of playing a horror game.
>>258904840
But the point is that they still had jump scares dumbass........
>>258900123
It would be cool if the game over was art of the costume room with one of the suits coated in blood, bulging eyes and teeth.
And then before it goes back to the main menu, the eyes look up at the camera.
>>258904178
>Both female
Ya dun good kid
There's also fear of the unknown. Here's a little challenge for all of you who have Skyrim:
Equip a waterbreathing amulet, go all the way north to the shore, and simply walk down to the abyss of the ocean for as long as you can.
We stopped checking for the monsters under our beds when we realized they were inside our minds. That's why nothingness is scarier.
Because we're alone with our thoughts.
>>258904178
I was honestly expecting something better anon.
>>258904876
>you don't get a fight or flight response after the first meeting with an invincible enemy, you get a "Fuck, I hate these annoying sections" response from essentially having a time escape objective.
I think that one's all on you, man. I haven't ever felt that like when immersed in a game. I don't remember meeting an invincible enemy and thinking "Aw man, my bullets don't work on it so obviously I have to either run away or just find the thing that kills or disables it. Whatever. Game mechanics man." - I've thought "WELL THAT'S NOT GOOD. TIME TO FUCKING GET OUT. NO THANKS. NOT TODAY. BYE."
Are th er any good horror gamesthat hurt you in real life?
>>258895429
The Prison in SH2 is basically the scariest thing I've ever played through in a video game.
>>258904241
Yeah I know. I was just making hypotheticals. OP asked what I think would be better, and I told him.
I like 5NAF fine the way it is, and don't expect anything to actually change.
>>258901529
literally from jacob's ladder
>>258904998
They didn't rely on jumpscares either, most enemy encounters have no involvement with jumpscares.
FN@F's enemies only attack you with a jumpscare.
>>258902514
There were a few times the game freaked me out.
Like when that guy catches you in the locker and tries to make you into a woman.
Or when the other guy catches you and chops off your finger. Jesus Christ.
See Junji Ito for horror that requires no jump scares.
>>258905349
>Smiling ghosts
>Scary
Japan can't into horror
>>258905090
Cheesiest post on /v/ for today, by a skyrim fanboy, of all thing.
>>258905064
>>258904178
Go back to /d/ you fucking autists.
I don't really consider jump scares as 'scary'. They're startling. I was 'surprised', 'caught of guard', but not really scared.
To me, scary is...prolonged tension, uneasiness, and a foreboding feeling despair.
>>258902885
I think it's actually recorded live. If you listen to the night 2 transition, you can hear his mic pick up the game audio also
>>258905596
?????
>>258904876
Well, that's because you're thinking of the game as a game. You can always rationalize with that mindset. If you're playing a horror game and at any point you think "God, I hate these sections." then it's either A.) A really shitty game with no immersion or B.) Your fault for not getting into the game.
>>258905592
At the end of the day, you gotta ask yourself, when I go to bed will I be shitting myself at this? Because jump scares, your gonna say no, something thats actually scary is still scary when the game is closed down
>>258904623
A multitude of jump scares makes for a shitty horror game.
One well done jump scare doesn't invalidate an entire good movie or game.
>>258905740
False, no matter what game you play, you will always know its a game. Immersion can only take you so far.
>>258897779
That analogy was actually pretty funny
>>258905435
looks kinda edgy anon.
>>258905725
Just testing.
Anyone here play Obscure 1 for the XBOX/PS2? I found it quite good. It had jumpscares, sure, but it relied mostly on tension and helplnessness. If you were out of ammo when facing a big baddy, welp, go fuck yourself, run.
Man that game was good.
There's nothing wrong with a good jumpscare from time to time, but if that's what you rely on to make your game, or movie for that matter, scary, then you're doing something wrong. When it's the atmosphere and setting that's freaking you out, when the anticipation of something happening is making you more scared than the actual things, that's what a good scare is. A jumpscare can make you jump in your seat but it doesn't necessarily "scare" you, you need to have all the other stuff for that.
>>258905839
Your post that was arguing that jump scares made for shitty horror, proceeds to argue that a jump scare can be well done and work. Nice one.
>>258892052
>I'm retarded so everyone else must be too
>>258905464
Horror is one of the only things Japan can do.
>>258904178
Yesss, do want.
>>258903879
Every conceivable way? I'll bite.
The Thing
>the acting is so 80s it hurts
>scifi plot is silly as shit
>trite "WHICH ONE OF US IS THE MONSTER" shit
>bad pacing
>no real atmosphere, it just flaunts a bunch of plastic gore effects in your face
>the effects haven't even aged
>shoehorned racial tension near the end
>all the mistrust between the character feels forced, probably because the acting isn't great
Alien
>acting is actually good, so it isn't tied to a particular decade
>favors showing over telling with its plot
>excellent pacing, equal parts mystery, tension and danger
>excellent atmosphere thanks to meticulously designed sets
>the effects have aged very well because they try to show as little of the aliens as possible
>only exception being the spaceship scenes, like where the alien gets ejected
>genuine mistrust and frustration between the characters, like when Lambert is pissed at Ripley
>>258895429
Nothing compares to the underwater part in SH2.
>just descended several bottomless holes
>no idea where you're going
>dark as fuck
>flooded with murky water
>Pyramid Head IS down there with you
>>258906142
That comic wasn't scary is was just fucking disgusting
>>258905617
This. The only things that frighten me anymore are stuff like in WoW or a few other games where you swim out really far into the "fatigue zone" and the land gives way, and if you swim down far enough everything turns black (because light can't reach that far down or whatever); that shit is absolutely frightening as fuck
OP, I prefer the uneasiness caused by say, objects being slightly distorted and looking just "wrong" enough that my brain says "this isn't right, but I don't know why" whether that's because of weird lighting, shadows in the wrong place, doorframes that just slightly curve instead of being straight, or if objects in a room change their position just slightly when I'm not looking at them
>>258897779
And having a game being called scary for not having jumpscares is like saying a person is funny because they tell jokes and forget the punchline every time.
>>258904204
Its not that it isn't scary its just cheap and you get over it quickly
>>258903097
Whats her name from RE1 Remake? I cant remember Lesia or something. She cant die either shit is terrifying
>>258892052
There are two types of fear: Scare and Dread
Scare is invigorating
Dread is debilitating
The confusion comes from buzzwords because people use "scare" like rednecks say "coke".
There's no good or bad, it's just people projecting what constitutes as "effort".
A cheap scare/dread is product of a "harmless" trap. Jump scare, abusing a phobia, etc. However a genuine scare/dread is product of coincidence.
If anything a good fear is a scare and a bad fear is a dread.
But by "survival horror" standards, any "scare" that causes dread would be considered "good" and any "scare" that causes a "jump scare" is considered bad.
jump scares are shit, but games can't really achieve actual fear anyway
a good fright would put you in the mood and slowly build up your tension
make you legitimately afraid
not shit popping out and saying boo
>>258902471
What about the scene where MacReady's testing the blood? I'd call that a jump scare.
Something is scary when it invokes a sense of danger. If it does not, it can at most be creepy.
Silent Hill 3 is scary to me because the monsters are a genuine threat. The atmosphere, environments, sound and everything else revolve around that and compliment it. Games like Penumbra or Amnesia, think of them what you will, are scary.
Silent Hill 2, while brilliant in the story and atmosphere department, failed to scare me most of the time. The scariest part by far were the first 10 minutes when you're walking down the road to the town. Anything can happen, anything can suddenly leap out at you from the fog.. But then the monsters turn out to be ineffective and merely creepy more than anything. and from then on, you just don't believe you'll ever find yourself in a genuine emergency.
>>258906562
You obviously went into it not wanting to like it, and if you think today's "acting" is good, you're a child and probably grew up in the 90s or some shit.
You also need to understand that The Thing pretty much invented / popularized "which one of us is the monster", it's like criticizing Half Life for not being as good as games that copied and improved upon it.
>>258904991
So what you're saying is that the fear of jumpscares, even if they don't exist, drives horror.
>>258906816
>having a game being called scary for not having jumpscares
What? Good horror does come from the absence of jump scares, it comes from being scary without resorting to startling you.
>>258906373
ok
>>258906464
He's not even the best though.
>>258906343
No, that's a cheap as fuck jump scare. That's like playing tetris and a bloody, screaming face pops up. If you're gonna have jump scares, then the moment at least needs to be tense and unnerving.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paHTsm09Mkw
Wow, this thread is worse than /x/.
![patema[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/SmvfAek.jpg "patema[1].jpg")
>>258906142
I got a new kind of fear when I watched Patema Inverse.
I had never seriously thought about falling into the sky but now it freaks me out.
>>258892052
Atmosphere.
Basically, if they game feels "heavy" and puts you under a lot of long-term pressure, it leaves you with a good feeling of "decompression" after you finish playing it.
Jump scares simulate this poorly by forcing the pressure through the player anticipating when's the next "OOGABOOGA I'M A MONSTER" gonna pop out.
The best scares (and monsters) are those that never actually appear. Take, for instance, the game Scratches. Its adventure mechanics were lackluster at best (with you having absolutely no idea wtf you are even supposed to do for the better part of the game), but boy did it manage to scare me. Fun thing is, you're told that there's something scary in that old house, and you hear strange sounds at night, and you have crazy dreams, but you don't ever see anything.
And then you find the key to the basement and this starts playing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_8UyMzms10
>>258906483
The part where you fail to explain why you can call jump scares shitty horror and then proceed to argue a jump scare as being well done.
Also the part where you expect people to take you seriously with a trip on, but that's beside the point.
>>258906943
Anon, someone who rew up in the 90s would be in roughly their early/mid twenties.
They're not children, you're just old.
play Scratch then you'll know what a good horror is
Jump scares = startling
startling != actual fear
did you actually get afraid when your brother hid behind a corner and popped out at you?
no, you were startled.
this is literally what jumpscares are.
>>258906950
Not jump scares specifically, just fear in general. Fear of something following you catching up, fear of something lurking the darkness or depths, etc.
>watch someone play the P.T. demo
>absolutely nothing happens for a long time
>all of the sudden a woman attacks you
>she doesn't come out of the corner
>she doesn't slowly descend on you
>you don't hear her coming
>she literally appears on you
>>258906443is that actually what being on top of the clouds of jupiter would look like?
Also gas giants are fucking horrifying for some reason
>>258906903
Good post; I'll only say that while a Scare is invigorating and thus perhaps more "fun" or "good" (the way a roller coaster is "fun"), Dread really pulls you into the setting and situation which is quite a bit more immersive, compared to the Scare that only lasts a moment.
I think FNaF does Jump Scares right; it only happens as a Defeat condition, not as a cheap tactic thrown at you often to keep your heart racing
>>258907229
Did I mention that there reason why you went down there in the first place were knocking sounds from inside the heating boiler?
>>258907360
Are you sure? Because "Hiding Brother" sounds like the next major blockbuster.
>>258906923
I wouldn't personally qualify it as a jump scare as it was the entire point of the scene. They set that up and the audience was waiting for that reaction. It didn't come out of nowhere.
>no one on /v/ reads books
>no one reads Lovecraft, Poe, or King who know how to create real monsters, tension, and pain
fuck hate you niggers
>>258907431
I agree. I know Jupiter is pretty much the reason we still exist but fuck it's spoopy.
>>258907637
Cosmic Horror is best Horror.
>>258906643
I have my /v/ set to Tomorrow. Get rekt.
>>258907637
>Poe
>And..uh...he was... entombed alive..yeah! Entombed alive!
>>258907203
There was a comic by Don Rosa about the same thing. Was pretty interesting.
>>258907137
Did you even read my post? I said you're constantly going through dark and creepy places, implying that there IS a sense of tension, because you don't know if something's going to pop out or not. What you described is like that shitty maze game you get your friends to play while you watch them, a la 2 Girls 1 Cup.
>>258907704
Come closer, little Human
>>258907637
>comparing poe to king
>>258907637
Lovecraft is a hack
there are way better weird fiction writers out there
>>258907101
No, that isn't scary, what you are referring to is a creepy game, not a scary one.
A game simply cannot be scary if you know nothing is going to come of the creepy atmosphere, how can it?
Unless of course, you intend to argue that you are actually as autisitic as >>258906652
>>258907429
This is just bullshit. It would be better if she slowly appeared and started walking towards you.
>>258906443
That picture kinda makes those features look small
>>258904382
>>258903732
You're both faggots, and everything you're talking about is just triggering the fight-or-flight reflex and activating the sympathetic nervous system.
>>258907637
>King
Tried reading Dreamcatcher once, it was cool but he just rambles so it was boring alot of the time.
>>258907637
HAHAHA
Look at this fucking retard. Books can't be scary. How can books be scary, they're just words! When you turn the page does it have BOO in really big letters?
>>258907124
He's not even good though. Most of his stuff is at best unsettling. He can draw the occasional weird ass thing, but most of his shit is just laughable.
>>258907637
But I do read all of those authors.
HP Lovecraft wrote some good stuff (The Colour Out of Space is one of my favourite horror stories) but he was a hack for the most part, too many cop-out endings to be taken seriously.
>>258900342
The first half of that video reminded me way too much of DSPexcept I think it's because this guy actually doesn't know what's going on
>>258907897
not comparing. Im just talking about the most mainstream writers in Horror
>>258907945
like who nigger?
>>258895429
silent hill 1 school and silent hill 2 prison
had to play during the day
>>258905232
A lot of non-horror games hurt me to play.
>>258907951
>if you know nothing is going to come of the creepy atmosphere
Are you fucking stupid? How do you know nothing is going to come out? Because for something to be there it need to fucking appear in front of your face and go "BOOO!!"?
>you intend to argue that you are actually as autisitic
Oh sorry, I typed my post before realizing your a shitposter. Please put on a tripcode so I never have to deal with your retarded shit.
>>258904963
Oh yeah, that one
>>258892052
WHEN IS CR1TIKAL GONNA PLAY THIS?
>>258903572
There is a horror general now, but it's slow as hell at the moment..
>>258900580
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_4mdGA9ehk There's a lot game devs can learn from The Exorcist about creating scaring people without the need for loud noises. Look at the very beginning of this clip for example. I think more stuff like this needs to be utilised
>>258906943
Quite the opposite. I was very excited to watch The Thing finally and was a bit disappointed.
Where from my post did you extrapolate that I think "today's acting" is good? Trust me, I don't. Alien is three years older than The Thing and has great acting. I was just referring to The Thing's use of cheesey, hammy acting that was prevalent throughout that era of film. It works for a lot of movies, but not really for horror that wants you to take it seriously.
![30[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/7ojUHWa.jpg "30[1].jpg")
![32[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/XzPwsV7.jpg "32[1].jpg")
