Subtext discussion thread
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You are currently reading a thread in /u/ - Yuri
How do you feel about subtext yuri? Is it cynical exploitation of yuri fans willing to settle for too little, a precious part of the genre that achieves something canon yuri can't, or something else entirely?
This discussion started in the Recent Releases thread >>2074583
What's the point of discussing this? It's not like we get much else, not like we have a choice.
>>2075039
Your autism needed an entire thread huh
>>2075042
Actually, I'm an uninvolved anon who wants to keep that thread from derailing further.
>>2075045
Whoever it is, that anon who made those long, autistic posts don't deserve their own thread to vent. It's a stupid topic in the first place.
I think one nice aspect of subtext yuri is how much fun it is to talk about. Threads for slice of life shows like K-on and Hidamari Sketch tend to be pretty good, because as the character's minds are purposely kept hidden (how does Nodoka view her relationship to Yui? Does Hiro know Natsume is in love with Sae?), there's always something to talk about.
It basically boils down to the whole "what is considered yuri" debate, which I very much dislike because it turns into a whole Final Destination list of qualifiers even amongst actual yuri genre media.
Personally, I think subtext is great because it increases your enjoyment of manga and anime beyond the scant few things that the more picky of people would consider to be pure yuri. Not to mention the spark it gives to creators of fanart, doujin, etc., producing even more yuri content as a result.
I wish creators would step outside the bounds of subtext in a lot of cases.
For instance, as much as I adore Yoko and Aya, I found myself frustrated that they didn't push the envelope further in terms of just properly hooking them up and showing them doing cute coupley things.
There are plenty other anime that I feel could do with dispensing with the ambiguity.
Subtext in itself isn't all bad, unless it's coupled with an external threat that plays on your fears.
Subtext in non-yuri shows: Good stuff, if a bit cowardly.
Subtext in supposedly yuri-genre shows/manga: Garbage.
That's why Manga no Tsukurikata is trash, while regular subtext manga/shows are not.
But non-subtext is always preferable.
>>2075039
>Is it cynical exploitation of yuri fans willing to settle for too little
I don't understand where the assumption that you have to choose comes from. It's not like once you read something with subtext yuri your chained to it for life.
I will say though subtext is better for certain things since the gap lets you put your own feelings into it making it good for doujins and the like.
You probably wouldn't get something like secret flowers if Sakurako and Himawari were already in a relationship.
>>2075039
>cynical exploitation
Sounds like that anon from the Haifuri thread who's angry that the show is giving us too much pairings.
>>2075039
It is providing something that people enjoy. Actually doing romance has its disadvantages.
I think it's a shame westerners seem pretty quick to ascribe subtly and leaving things open to stuff like homophobia (or the "waifufag" bogeyman).
>>2075071
>It is providing something that people enjoy.
You're enjoying it wrong.
>>2075077
More enjoyment, of a wider variety of things, more of the time. I'm doing it right.
>>2075039
I dislike it. I don't much care to be teased nor do I care if it can be turned into doujins because I don't read that crap. it's all fan service bullshit and I have to watch the show to get a good understanding of what's going on in the doujin. I might be biased, but if there are no lesbians in the actual show, It makes it hard to watch the anime. anime in general is just terrible, but the Yuri saves it.
100% fine with it if there's indication that the creators enjoy that sort of thing, or put it in there for a reason. Even better if in some interview we actually get confirmation that they did so, or even a "yep, they wuz gay" sort of statement.
However if we get the silent treatment (i.e., "no comment") or worse:Yamada'dthen I may not be as happy with it.
However, I can understand the general distaste for it. Even if the creators are cool with yuri, sometimes it's as if subtext is to say "yuri shouldn't exist further than this". It's really quite conflicting. But that just may be a pessimistic way of looking at things. The fact that yuri fans are perhaps rather naturally prone to pessimism notwithstanding.
>>2075039
It's a ubiquitous and disgusting window into the Japanese hypocrisy regarding homosexuality. It's widely enjoyed on the pandering/service/bait level, but heaven forbid it was used for anything other than setting up cheap jokes about characters. Think of how many shows have girls who have so blatantly romantic feelings towards one another that it would be NOT out of character or anything surprising even for a second if they showed the kind of intimacy that is only between lovers. And yet nobody is brave enough to make that last step. We have women raising a daughter together, we have a creator who admits character X's feelings might be romantic in nature, but no real admission because otaku can't handle actual, real lesbians.
It really irks me how the medium is full of blatantly obvious pairs, but they stay the fuck away from substance because gayness is bad.
>>2075124
This is just xenophobic and wallowing in a persecution complex based on misplaced assumption.
>Tfw there are new yuri fans who thinks that subtext isn't real yuri
>Tfw they don't consider Nanoha as yuri despite Nanoha and Fate having a literal daughteru
>Tfw they think that Uranus and Neptune are canon from the beginning
>Tfw they disregard Marimite and more than half of all yuri-ish shows and manga
All these spoiled bitches don't know how stupid they're being right now.
>>2075136
Certainly not as much as you.
>>2075128
>xenophobic
Take this weeaboo whining to tumblr please. Your glorious nippon is not oppressed here.
>>2075136
>Tfw there are new yuri fans who thinks that subtext isn't real yuri
Actually, those are the old fans. In Japan, it's the newfags that came with yuruyuri that are fine with just subtext.
>Tfw they think that Uranus and Neptune are canon from the beginning
They were. Naoko Takeuchi was very vocal about this, too. Your retardation on this topic has been shot down over 15 years ago.
Lurk more, newfag, and cry less.
>>2075139
>buzzwords
This thread is off to a really great start.
>>2075141
>crying emo tears about horrible xenophobia
Sure, tumblrina.
My favorite use of lesbian subtext in anime comes from the original Sailor Moon series. Rei and Usagi have a kind of relationship that's very familiar to anyone who watches shows about cute girls who do cute things; they argue a lot, but have each other's backs when the situation goes bad and occasionally stare deep into one another's eyes, blush creeping up their cheeks. Your basic Himawari/Sakurako, Konata/Kagami, Nico/Maki thing.
The thing that makes it special is Usagi's destined relationship to Mamoru that will end in marriage and a kid. Rather than a cute sign of immaturity, that detail makes the girls' inability to communicate honestly with each other tragic.
Subtext is Satan. Demand more!
>>2075136
You probably think that procotts using poptarts are a good idea.
>>2075140
I guess you're one of the kids who stuck by Rowling's speech that Dumbledore is hella gay too.
>>2075143
Is this post ironic?
>>2075140
Joke's on you, a major lesbian artist insist that subtext doesn't count. Her fans are also following her take on it. Guess which one it is.
As for the canon, the delivery is still subtext, even if the author says its canon, for some it's still not enough as proper validation.
Try harder faggot.
![[Soldado]_Loveless_09.webm](https://i.imgur.com/fMcDtti.jpg "[Soldado]_Loveless_09.webm")
If we can have canon yuri in a yaoi anime, then we can get canon elsewhere dammit!
>>2075158
>elsewhere
Yuri Kuma Arashi, Valkyrie Drive from last year. What a pointless post.
>>2075161
>>2075161
Don't like either of those desu senpai a lamia
>>2075162
>why is there no canon yuri anime
>is given a sample of recent yuri anime
>no i don't like those
Why is the majority of this thread shitposting?
>>2075165
Is it really hard to believe that someone dislikes a super ecchi show, and a show that doesn't really make sense and is far different from its source material?
>>2075168
So because someone dislikes them then they don't count as canon? That's just idiotic.
>is far different from its source material?
There is no source material. The anime was made first.
>>2075124
>because otaku can't handle actual, real lesbians.
This gets lazily thrown around but it's without any substantiation when the reality is that there are well received works firmly aimed at core otaku (and not just those that are specifically yuri fans) that feature canon lesbians and use the term, e.g., Sakura no Uta (and it's not as though erogamers aren't easily displeased or not vocal when they don't like some element).
>>2075128
Feel free to prove me wrong with empirical evidence. Oh right, you can't do that.
>>2075128
Fuck off tumblr.
>>2075084
This nee-san gets it.
Subtext es un invento de otskus
>>2075211
This is an english board, Pedro.
Subtext in cute girls doing cute things shows adds another layer of goodness.
For some reason subtext in manga sometimes leaves me completely cold.
What in the ever loving hell is happening in this thread?
>>2075157
Who is the artist?
>>2075233
>What in the ever loving hell is happening in this thread?
People confusing opinions and facts.
>>2075049
Except or the legion of subway shows and manga that don't do exceedingly well and don't get any fanworks.
Do we disregard the subtext label for something if it has a kiss or romantic confession in the last episode/chapter?
>>2075220
>If the claims were true there'd be evidence of Japanese otaku having a problem with stuff like Sakura no Uta (they'd perceive a canon lesbian as what they call a 地雷). There isn't.
Actually, that is untrue. There is, and you often see pretty scathing comments about lesbian characters, just take Horizon when it aired, there was a lot of anger on 2chan about it. The amount was part of the reason we never got season 3.
Otakus are not a hivemind however. Some are fine with it. A lot are not. It depends on an individual show where the line falls, and where the majorities lay.
>>2075244
What were they angry about? Just the perils of lesbianity?
>>2075250
Too much screentime, too blatant. Keep in mind that Marga got her own arc in season 2, and they just didn't like that.
>>2075244
>The amount was part of the reason we never got season 3.
That's the kind of claim you'd need to be very gullible to believe without a solid source. Evidence of the futaba threads at least?
>>2075254
Give me a time machine. I couldn't know that, years later, a butthurt anon would demand screens of something that is pretty common knowledge.
Clearly, homophobic otaku do not exist, and no otaku in the history of the universe has ever complained about yuri, because that's the only thing you want to hear.
>>2075260
>screens
Personally I'd search and link, if there was "a lot".
>Clearly, homophobic otaku do not exist, and no otaku in the history of the universe has ever complained about yuri, because that's the only thing you want to hear.
I wouldn't dispute that there are some. It's whether there's actually enough to support the claim that they're what's behind all the subtext stuff.
>>2075039
God damn, people. Pick up a dictionary.
Subtext and canon are not opposite nor are they mutually exclusive.
If something has subtext yuri, it has canon yuri. The term subtext just means that something is not explicitly stated but inferred though events. For example, the fact characters breath oxygen is subtext based information in most cases. That does not mean it's not canon they breath oxygen.
>>2075039
>Is it cynical exploitation of yuri fans willing to settle for too little
YES.
>>2075274
I think it would be nice if people used the words like that, but I've pretty much given up.
>>2075039
OP's pic was one of the finest moments of subtext. So nice.
>>2075274
>>2075287
The term subtext yuri and subtext is being used interchangeably here.
>If something has subtext yuri, it has canon yuri
Or you know, just friends. Friends hug, friends hold hands, friends check fevers by pressing foreheads. Friends visit each other houses.
>the fact characters breath oxygen is subtext based information in most cases
Assumptions are made based on personal experiences. Everyone you know and I know breathes oxygen. But not everyone who act touchy-freely is gay or interested in a romatic relationship.
>That does not mean it's not canon they breath oxygen
The chances of this being not true (that they do indeed breathe oxygen) is much higher and truer than subliminal messages that may or may not be passed as friendship or romantic relationship. The consumers are ultimately left to decide.
>>2075039
>cynical exploitation of yuri fans willing to settle for too little
Personally, I'd autoban anyone who mentions tumblr outside of a link.
>>2075310
>using a word incorrectly does not amount to the definition changing.
fag? gay?
>There can't be yuri subtext unless there is actual yuri.
>This isn't about assumptions.
Then give me examples or yuri subtext. Animes and Mangas
>>2075325
>argue against literally every known definition of the word
Yet you don't back up your claims with examples and evidences
For sure, I'm the stupid one here. Enlightment me
>>2075319
>Personally, I'd auto ban anyone who uses the words opinion, assumptions, or otherwise says very stupid things. Like you.
>Tumblr is literally all people screaming that their personal experience is proof of fact, and that's the exact argument you tried to make.
So you want to auto-ban yourself, and you're tumblr?
>>2075310
>yuri subtext
Waht the fuck is this? How can you even put those two words together?
>>2075330
Wikipedia
>imply controversial subjects without specifically alienating people from the fiction, often through use of metaphor
Dictionary
>a message which is not stated directly but can be inferred
Literaryterms (website)
>The subtext comes to be known by the reader or audience over time, as it is not immediately or purposefully revealed by the story itself.
Urban (sorry /u/)
>When a sexual relation between two characters is implied in a movie, book, comic, etc. Usually two male characters. Often a figment of a fangirl's imagination.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HomoeroticSubtext
>may attempt fanservice
>romantic [relationship] is usually left ambiguous
Ho Yay (Which I argue is a subsidiary form of interpreting subtexts. tvtropes)
>[fans are] willingly interpret any interaction as potentially gay
>without canon orientations
>[even] specifically stated by their creators to be straight.
>>2075333
But you said that
>Tumblr is literally all people screaming that their personal experience is proof of fact
and a statement like that is definitely an opinion, no? Unless you're one who likes to conflate their opinion as fact which is ironically how you described tumblr as.
>>2075348
>actually trying to use tvtrops as a source
Yeah, I can't deal with you anymore. Plus all the other defintions say you are wrong.
>animes
God, you're so cringe worthy.
>>2075349
No, because of the opposite of fact is not opinion. The opposite of fact is wrong. How do you not understand something so basic. Whether or not that's how people from tumblr behave is either a fact or it's not a fact (wrong). There is no situation in which it is an opinion. And in this case what I said happens to be a fact.
>>2075352
>actually trying to use tvtrops as a source
>Pick any result.
Yet, once more you don't provide any basis for your criticism
>other definitions say you are wrong
>Pick any result.
Wtf are you on about?
>animes
>4chan
>/u/
In your own words
>Can you go back to tumblr and stay there, thanks.
Lol at people that are worse than tumblr arguing who is like tumblr. It's like shit and vomit arguing who has cheesy feet.
>>2075352
>In general, an opinion is a judgment, viewpoint, or statement that is not conclusive. It may deal with subjective matters in which there is no conclusive finding. What distinguishes fact from opinion is that facts are more likely to be verifiable, i.e. can be agreed to by the consensus of experts.
>>2075320
Fuck off ack
>>2075053
The manga is not over yet, you know. Specially for those 2.
>>2075084
Nobody said they aren't lesbians, they just aren't in a relationship yet.
>>2075321
>examples
http://yuripedia.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Anime
>>2075429
Not sure which anon are you, but:
If you're the cynical asshole then:
>>2075274
>If something has subtext yuri, it has canon yuri
Usagi, Kirino and Lucky Star (these 3 I've seen and have memories of) no doubt have subtexts, but there are no clear cut acknowledgement of a romantic relationship that is canonical yuri. Therefore the possibility of "just friends" cannot be ruled out. Hence the discussion of whether the use of subtexts is a deliberate work of trying to capture a wider demographic(non-yuri and yuri fans) or to pander to the cultural stigma of "no gay on TV" or to bait fans to create the contents that the creators do not ultimately provide (thus increase the popularity of a work)
If you're someone else:
How's Chunibyo and Girl Friend Beta. I don't see those titles being flung around at all.
>>2075429
onee-sama, quit shilling for imoutos to edit your subtext wiki pls.
>>2075260
That's a retarded way of proving your argument. Don't bring that shit around /u/.
I like subtext.
>>2075447
I don't have to, they do it themselves, and it's easier to link it than write the examples.
>>2075039
As an old hag I am more than fine with it. Most of the /u/ show at the time were only watchable at best and pure unadulterated trash at worst. Subtext show usually had a better quality. This is all opinion mind you and while I'm ready to debate it don't expect it to be objective. I stand by the old adage that if two girl are within spitting distance of each other I can ship it.
>>2075445
I'll give you Lucky Star and Usagi, but Kiniro (no Kirino) Mosaic only has 2 types of fans:
Yuri fans
Karen fans
And the Karen fans barely give a fuck about what happens in the show.
When the manga was written nobody had idea it would get a TV adaptation. And the number of doujins can be count with your hands, why? Because this author delivers. She provides the content.
Which is why Kiniro Mosaic is considered a yuri series, even if the characters aren't in a relationship yet, we know they are lesbians, the fans and the author know it, and it's why it's likely and possible for them to get together at the end.
Chuuni has 2 side girls that get a lot of development together in season 2.
Girlfriend beta only has episode 3, but I recommend you to watch it, only that episode, ignore everything else, it works as a yuri one-shot.
>>2075554
I'm may sound like a hater for saying this, but here goes:
Based on the 2 seasons that I saw and this anon
>>2075053
I also came to the conclusion that the creators should have and could have push the envelope more
But that's fine because the author still can do that in the manga, right? As this anon says
>>2075416
I looked up the manga to see, but the series is locked behind licensing--with no english version (I searched on google, google shopping, and amazon)
And there are currently 5 volumes right now, but based on what the latter anon said, the envelope haven't been sent yet (assumption).
But there's still a chance, right?
And if Kiniro was yuri from the start, I'd expect to see at least see some form of developments from the show--however, I'm returned with subtexts instead.
So the only conclusion I can reach here: is that the author realized her work is passively attaching yuri fans, and only decided to acknowledge and shift to the
yuri genre (assumption) because of the crowd.
I don't know how this read to you but this sounds like yuri is being use as a token here
And even if the character did get together at the end, I would still feel disappointed if not repulsed.
It would like watching a het show just for the token lesbian characters.
Now, I don't bear any ill will towards author who had a change of heart (if that is the case)
but I do not wish to have my expectations being played with and tossed around (like what's going in the Haifuri thread) (Cross Ange)
That said, thank you for filtering, I'll go watch that episode 3 now.
Subtext is good for buildup and side couples but for the love of fucking god I'm sick of relationships not progressing into explicit canon territory with the narrative of the work taking some time deal with a relationship upgrade and for the explicit romantic relationship to have an affect on the plot and the relationship of the couple and their friends/family/enemies.
>>2075574
>for some ungodly reason equates haifuri with cross ange
You fucking wot m8.
>>2075574
But the show has small developments, from all the couples, it isn't much, but it does have development.
Which means the author didn't "shift" to the genre, it was always yuri since the start, it just took it's time to develop the couples.
I don't take subtle subtexts and "wahh let's hold hands because we're friends" things! Go full pussy-licking lesbo or go home! I don't mind bi or confusions within a character or unrealized desires, but I want no more subtext which stays only pandering so that hetshit audience can freely go self-insert, make shitty fanfics, or draw creepy porns!
>>2075761
An anon after my own heart. Can't stand subtext. I understand why they don't confirm things. They need to leave room for male fans to be able to insert themselves. I don't like that. It makes the whole project seem insincere. Even if the girls were in confirmed relationships with each other the otaku would still self insert. If the girls are lesbians put them together. If they aren't don't tease it and just leave all romance out so that the otaku can have even blanker slates to drop their character in.
>>2075787
They're plausible deniability yuri.
>>2075775
I don't really think it's a matter of self insertion at all, really. I've noticed that most Japanese fans of softer yuri subtext seem to be in it squarely for the voyeurism aspect. Them being against more explicit yuri can, in my opinion, likely be accredited to the same sort of disgust a lot of people unfortunately have toward explicit displays of homosexual affection. So I suppose it may come down to simple homophobia. Even among people who can enjoy light and fluffy homoerotic subtext.
>>2075731
We're treading on ground on which constitutes as yuri
which is another whole endless debate in itself.
But perhaps you're right, anon. I'll take back my criticism
>>2075554
>And the number of doujins can be count with your hands, why? Because this author delivers. She provides the content.
That's ridiculous reasoning. It doesn't get much doujins because it's not all that popular (compared to Gochiusa, K-On, Hidamari, etc.). And even the decent number of doujins that do come out never get scanned.
>>2075842
I think KinMoza is more popular than GochiUsa, neechan.
>>2075843
It doesn't matter what you think. It should be obvious from the sales figures, amount of fanart, twitter followers etc.
>>2075848
>It doesn't matter what you think.
Rude.
>>2075574
>(Cross Ange)
Which had gay girls who stayed gay till the end.
>>2075761
Who are "hetshit audience" self-inserting in shows like Kiniro Mosaic?
>>2075878
I stopped watching after the insertion of a male character which was not my expectation of what I've seen in the first 2(?) episode (an all girls island).
>>2075881
He was on the cast and opening. Not really a surprise. But the show does have full canon lesbians with onscreen sex and they even end together as a couple.
>>2075879
Not the anon you're replying to
But I suppose the het fan arts?
>>2075882
We're different people.
I simply don't want to experience yuri through a het show.
>>2075883
WHich is a lot less then the just neutral fanart or yuri fanart.
>>2075889
I took a bullet to see if you're right. And you're right, at least for Kiniro.
Because I also looked up Lucky Star, and the frequency of het art is a lot more intrusive.
I think the original anon is talking about subtexts in general and not Kiniro exclusively
>>2075900
Even with subtext in general it does not seem right. Most subtext shows do not have any male self-inserts and I doubt the authors planned to have the fanart serving as a self-insert.
>>2075901
Before I embrace the yuri fandom, I did want self insert (voyeurism insert, so pls don't kill me) into Lucky Star--at least in the one scene that I remember.
And the scene is where Konata working in a maid cafe talking to the twins
Lucky Star is my yuri gateway too if you can believe that.
This is anecdote however
>>2075882
He didn't appear until the opening. We knew a male character was in the show but his role was never defined. It wasn't until the knockoff Gundam Seed opening that Tusk actually appeared and got Kira Yamato jokes across the internet.
>>2075787
>Tfw I know a yuri artist who thinks that Nanoha isn't gay enough to be considered yuri
I'm tired of endless subtext too, believe me. Sure, I know there was a reason for that. It's not like lesbians were always accepted and god forbid that they further emasculated japanese men by showing that women could actually have the tendency to not want the D. But that's in the past now. Frankly I'm glad that we're getting a lot of variety in mangos as of late. Now if only anime would follow suit.
>>2075787
Yes
It's really hard for me to bash subtext when most of my favorite yuri things are in that category.
Sure, I find myself cheering on the couples to get together "for real" all the time, but I guess the fact that it's subtle keeps me coming back and wanting more, as opposed to actual romance stories dragging on, which I can only stand for so long.
I believe my ideal setup would be a developing subtext that gets heavier over time, and becomes openly romantic near the end of the series.
>>2076404
Subtext (i.e hints of a potential relationship) i believe, is designed to make you come back because it makes you genuinely curious as of to what would happen next when the hints are forced to be confronted with.
Except when you follow the breadcrumbs, you find no bread--at least in the way the term subtext is being used: no acknowledgement that the hints could mean something. Instead, they are ignored.
And I agree that when a work declares itself yuri, many times, you're in for a long ride until the love confession scene. By then you're like, 90% through the series
The step that transition best friends to lovers is like a couple of feet. The characters' dynamic doesn't even have to change.
If "subtextual" works can just casually become yuri, it would be the best thing ever.
>>2076455
No casually, but some of them can.
I love stuff like K-ON! because the subtext makes people draw pictures and write fanfiction. Everything is kept ambiguous which allows people to write and draw without any restrictions. This is probably also the reason why actual Yuri doesn't get nearly as much fanart.
>>2077770
Idk... There aren't any legit yuri in shows like K-ON!. Yuru Yuri came close but it still ship tease a lot.
>>2077781
>Implying that a /u/ K-ON! wouldn't suck
>implying Yuru Yuri isn't subtext only
>>2077862
I'd tell you to go back to >>>Shoujo-ai.com but the place died before you were old enough to post here.
History has proven that show that try to tap the yuri only for the yuri are more often than not pure garbage and Yuru Yuri while being /u/ doesn't have couple. This is reality.
>>2077864
Spoken like a true /a/utist.
>>2077864
You don't need couples for yuri. Yuri is just a girl loving a girl.
>>2077969
This. It's a semantics argument, but Yuru Yuri is not subtext.
Subtext is something that is not directly stated, but can be inferred. Several of the lesbian crushes in Yuru Yuri are stated within the text. While there are relationships that DO fall into the subtext category, there are also quite a few that are canon to the series.
Subtext has become a sort of buzzword when it comes to homoerotic works where people use it to describe anything where two characters don't end up in a relationship by the end, but that's not what the word subtext means. Even something as negative sounding as "bait" would be a more accurate description than subtext, since subtext has nothing to do with whether or not two characters are actually dating.
Something being text or subtext is also not an indicator of quality. Sticking with Yuru Yuri as an example, Chinatsu has an explicitly stated crush on Yui, and most of her interactions with her are romantic in nature, at least on Chinatsu's side. However, YuiChina is not a very popular ship, and if the two ever entered into a proper romantic relationship most fans would actually be disappointed in the development.
>>2077864
I'm not sure if I understand your comment, because it's worded quite badly, but are you saying that shows that have yuri as their main selling point are garbage? While it's true that yuri anime have historically not sold very well, I find it puzzling that you would list Yuru Yuri as your example. Yuru Yuri is pretty popular, and has actually sold very well.
I liked subtext when I was younger and had all the free time in the world. There was also few yuri back then, so I was thirsty for more and also settled for droplets and power of imagination, but now that we are gaining traction, ehhh...
This anon got it right >>2075057
>subtext in supposedly yuri-genre show/manga: Garbage
I don't watch animu or read doujins anymore. I only read yuri originals comics where the girls are really together or will really end up together, and I found that I was far more happier because I always get what I want (not mere subtext) not to mention I also get to save so much time and effort. There are people saying "ohh subtext can be inspo for doujins! Imagination guise!", but yuri OGs can also serve inspos for other OG yuri authors/artists to make their own OG yuri story so...
Never looking back again.
>>2078604
>yuri OGs can also serve inspos for other OG yuri authors/artists to make their own OG yuri story so...
The number of doujins made of subtext anime vastly outnumber those made for original yuri.
I can understand not wanting to spend time watching them (I rarely bother watching them unless they have something else apart from the yuri subtext that interests me), but if you're a fan of yuri doujins it's in your best interests to hope that plenty of subtext shows keep getting made and get popular.
>>2078604
Subtext can end with the girls together once the manga ends. You just need to wait until it ends.
>>2075136
It depends on the kind of subtext. Marimite was gay as fuck; much gayer than most "yuri" that have come out in the past 10 years. The reason is because Marimite actually explores intense relationships between girls throughout the series, whereas shows like Madoka just tack it onto the end, or KLK and K!ON which are just bait shows where nothing happens.
There hasn't been a real yuri anime since Simoun. Everything we've had since has been a bait show or moeshit.
>>2079111
Didn't the creator say that she didn't intend for it to look like that and that the girls would grow out of it?
>>2079118
HAHAHAHAHA
Oh man. Its hilarious and it hurts at the same time!
FUCKING STRETCH
IT JUST ENDS WITH NOTHING HAPPENING
ABSOLUTE PISSTAKE
>>2075039
>subtext yuri
the enslavement of the yuri fanbase to heterosexual aimed anime producers.
It needs to die a horrible flaming disembowlment
>>2079111
>There hasn't been a real yuri anime since Simoun.
You missed Yuri Kuma Arashi?
>>2079856
If being aimed at heterosexuals is a problem, explicit yuri anime needs to go too
>>2079861
>explicit yuri anime
Whoa, that exists? Where can I get me some of that?
I think this sums up my opinion pretty well.
https://youtu.be/Fib4-S9ENpE?t=348
>>2075039
subtext yuri is good but if its going too long, it became a cancer. I don't want to watch a show for 3-4 seasons for subtext. In the end, I want a real thing!
For example :- Symphogear, YuruYuri, Nanoha, Saki, Hidamari and more. They just stuck at subtext and never go further than that.
>>2080589
You're making the mistake of expecting them to change their dynamic when stuff like that doesn't actually act like that's on the cards.
I think it all boils down to WHY you enjoy yuri. I enjoy yuri because it's CUTE and male characters are usually real boring and not cute. Subtext doesn't make it less cute and arguably is just as cute as full blown yuri.
If you like yuri because blah blah blah muh gender sexuality representation hurrdurr tumblrshit then it's another story.
>>2080589
They will end together in the end. It's just isn't over yet.
>>2080684
you forgot the not retarded position of wanting the relationship between two interesting characters to actually develop. Straight couples in fiction also suffer from the not going anywhere bullshit that lazy writers use to pan their work for more length, but little depth.
It just sucks extra for homosexual couples because there is almost no works that actually explore a developed relationship between two men or women. It's usually 99% subtext and implications with a confession or kiss tacked on at the end, if even that. At least straight couples are so well represented in fiction that statistically, you are bound to find at least some works that go pass the UST phase.
And while some people on tumblr can be stupid it isn't good to generalize. You look like an ass for putting down a userbase because you want to feel better about yourself and your decision to waste invaluable hours of your life on an image board that polite society thinks is for pedos and hackers. Asking for more representation isn't bad. Even demanding it isn't that bad all things considered. The only really bad folks on tumblr are the ones that assume everyone who doesn't do exactly what they want is the enemy.
>>2080714
I wasn't just talking about symphogear.
>>2080713
I'd rather relationships not be developed at all than be developed into a botched abomination like what happens in most anime. At least yuri subtext is nice and fluffy, if you look at the garbage hetshit out there, I'd much much rather stick with the yuri/yuribait category than haremtrash and assorted abortions of shows in the het umbrella.
Anyways, if you love tumblr so much go back and stay there. You know full well what I meant when I referred to tumblr (as in the social justice fucktards on tumblr), you're just being deliberately dense for the sake of argument.
>>2080763
>Anyways, if you love tumblr so much go back and stay there. You know full well what I meant when I referred to tumblr (as in the social justice fucktards on tumblr), you're just being deliberately dense for the sake of argument.
>>2080841
Not an argument.
>>2080846
>>2080873
