Madoka Magica Thread
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Old Thread >>2037078
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>>2047258
Apparent kissing scene in the concept movie
http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=manga&illust_id=56770493
>>2047259
It doesn't seem like kissu to me, just a convenient perspective
Do we have anything to talk about that hasn't been discussed to death already yet?
>>2047481
What kind of apartment would MadoHomu live in?
>>2047550
Something smallish and intimate to start off. When they save up their money, they would move into a nice little house with a decent sized yard for their daughter to play in.
>>2047554
But what about KyouSaya?
>>2047558
I don't know much about how Japan does graveyards or memorials, but I'm sure Kyouko and Mami would make sure Sayak's grave would be kept clean.
>>2047559
Rude.
Homura has given them a chance to be happy together
>>2047562
Hey sis, Sayaka's a cunt, can you really blame me?
>>2047559
Haa, funny.
Seriously though, don't be an ass.
>>2047563
She's a baka but wouldn't call her a cunt.
>>2047564
Well I just hate her attitude so much, she acts so high and mighty, but at the end of the day, she's just as much of a loser as everyone else. That's what makes me love her character and the purpose the serves in the story, but as a person, she infuriates me.
>>2047565
I like her for being a flawed heroic character. Being flawed makes her all the more human.
>>2047571
Flawed, yes, but more like wannabe hero, you don't become a hero because you aim to be one, like how Sayaka tried. You become a hero because in the pursuit of your personal goals you accomplished good things that others might have never had the courage or strength to do, you become an icon even if you didn't intend it. Like how Madoka became a hero through her actions, she wanted to grow into someone that could be useful, but she never aimed to become an "ally of justice."
If any of that makes sense.
>>2047577
I don't see why consciously wanting to be a hero is a bad thing. That's like saying someone who trained and became a firefighter or a police officer can't be a hero, even if they deliberately go above and beyond their line of duty to save someone's life.
For all the faults Sayaka has, I wouldn't count her desire to be heroic among them. Her problem is more that she was ill-equipped to be one, too stupid at long-term planning and too stubborn to accept help from people she considered to be bad.
>>2047565
>That's what makes me love her character and the purpose the serves in the story, but as a person, she infuriates me.
Yeah that's how I feel too. I think she'd be a huge pain to be friends with, especially in a high-stress situation, but without her PMMM wouldn't be the show we all love.
>>2047577
She did have a sort of black and white view to what justice was and bit off more than she could chew when aspiring to follow in the footseps of Mami. Though in the end, she selfishly wanted what she thought her wish would've lead to when healing the arm of someone she loved.
Maybe not the hero of justice she thought she'd be but at the very least one who realized her selfishness and flaws.
Can't bring myself to hate a character who missed up so badly yet, come off as a real character.
>>2047586
It's one thing to want to become someone who helps people, like a cop, firefighter, doctor etc. Then there's the guy who wants to dispense justice, who believes that they are a true ally of justice who has the right to judge others based off their actions. That type of person is incredibly disturbing to me, that way of thinking breeds tyrants and serial killers.
Now, I'm not saying Sayaka is completely on that level, but she's close, especially since it's heavily implied she killed those two guys on that train. She has a very black and white view of morality, when in reality, good and evil do not exist at all, there's merely a difference in opinion and belief in what will provide the best security for what you care about.
>>2047589
Indeed, as you said, she set herself on the path of understanding better who she is and how she can do good things the proper way. Sayaka is a hugely flawed character, who refuses to accept her own faults until it's far too late, but ultimately her intentions are pure. The problem is that, while her intentions are pure, she never truly understood her situation. At the end of Rebellion she used her black and white morality to view Homura as evil, when Homura is nothing more than a very hurt figure hiding her pain behind a sinister mask.
I feel like I rambled a lot there, but I hope you guys can better understand my feelings about her.
>>2047550
One with no exit.
>>2047595
>especially since it's heavily implied she killed those two guys on that train
The actions of a girl who is on the verge of becoming a witch should not be held against her. It's very clear that letting your magic go that low has adverse effects on your psyche.
But aside from that, I agree with you that she has a very black-and-white view of morality.
However I still would say Sayaka can be considered to have a heroic character. She does want to help people, that's why she gets angry at Kyouko for callously suggesting that they shouldn't bother hunting familiars and let them kill some humans first.
She made a selfish wish, but when she fights witches it's because she wants to save people like her idol Mami used to, not because she needs grief seeds to survive, which is why Kyouko does so. That led to Sayaka's downfall, but it's still the sort of selfless bravery you'd associate with heroism.
>>2047595
She is slowly wiping her memory over the time in Homura's rewritten universe.
Sayaka's only view of Homura now is being a devil.
Wonder if soon that thought will leave due to her memories wiping, despite her saying she'd never forget.
>>2047589
The reason that most people hate Sayaka is not because she is too inflexible in her perception of justice, but because she's a hypocrite. There are plenty fictional characters who are just as black and white like Sayaka, even though they're wrong and ultimately meet their demise without ever fixing their view point, yet still come across as likable by the audiences. This is because at least those characters apply their standard consistently, which made other people respect their strong will despite not agreeing with them.
Sayaka on the other hand is just a double-standard cunt who acted all high and mighty when facing those with different values than her, at the same time is bitter at innocent people. She lashed out at MADOKA, blamed her for being useless and how it's unfair that all the weights of the world is on her shoulders, when it's clearly her decision to become a magical girl in exchange for a wish, and Madoka has nothing to do with how she decided to live her life.
In short, Sayaka is despicable because she herself doesn't live up to her own definition of justice. She despises Homura and Kyouko for not being outwardly selfless heroes, yet got her nose stuck up and expect civilians to THANK her for being a hero. That kind of behaviour is ugly.
Oh, I have no doubt it is realistic. But cruel, sadistic, manipulative, greedy, selfish behaviours are also realistic (e.g. remember those sexist pigs Sayaka killed on the train?) and that doesn't make them any less ugly, does it?
>>2047617
>She lashed out at MADOKA
I do hate Sayaka, but I would like to point out that she did actually regret treating Madoka like that.
>>2047617
I've always thought that people who hate Sayaka aren't smart enough to watch Madoka, and this pretty much confirms it. Specifically
>when it's clearly her decision to become a magical girl in exchange for a wish.
>>2047617
That seems like a huge overreaction. Sayaka was written as a deliberately flawed character who made mistakes, suffered greatly because of it, and ultimately died.
Does a character like that really deserve so much hatred? It's not like she's a sadist who enjoys burning kittens or something.
>She despises Homura and Kyouko for not being outwardly selfless heroes
She despised Kyouko for saying that she was deliberately going to let a murderous entity go free, knowing full well that it was going to kill people, and only go after it when it had done so. That's incredibly ruthless thinking, and it's no surprise that a naive girl who's only been a magical girl for a day is going to find it despicable.
>yet got her nose stuck up and expect civilians to THANK her for being a hero
How is that anywhere as bad?
To this day, every thread it's Sayafags vs Homufags for eternity. I love it.
>>2047621
Sayakafags like you only make her look worse.
>>2047640
As said above, just because a character is deliberately written a certain way, doesn't mean everybody must like them. We all have personal reaction to everything, be it madly liking or disliking or have no opinion about a character. I personally am allergic to hypocrites like Sayaka, that's all.
>>2047565
Sayaka was pretty reasonable and level-headed in Rebellion. There's such a thing as character development you see.
>>2047595
>At the end of Rebellion she used her black and white morality to view Homura as evil
At the point where Sayaka paints Homura as an evil, it takes place after the memory wipe. Keep in mind that Sayaka, at this point, has no recollection of any of Homura's struggles and sacrifices for Madoka's sake. All she remembers is that Homura rid Madoka of her godly powers and by doing that she did something corrupted. And I think you're conveniently trying to ignore how Sayaka acted during a huge part of Rebellion in regards to Homura where she showed compassion and undrstanding instead of judgemental.
>>2047655
I very much understand her not being likeable. The way she was written it was inevitable that a lot of people would dislike her.
But the sheer hatred and vitriol leveled at her is mind-boggling. Like I said, people act as if she went around killing puppies and cackling sadistically while doing it, instead of just being a dumb teenager who was in way over her head and paid the ultimate price for it.
>>2047671
Plus Homura hates herself so much that she's throwing herself wholeheartedly into her self-appointed role of the devil. It's no wonder that Sayaka sees her that way.
>>2047649
What if I'm both a Sayafag and Homufag and I can recognize each character's faults and love them in spite of it?
>>2047679
>the sheer hatred and vitriol leveled at her is mind-boggling.
Maybe because she keeps fucking things up and Homura keeps fixing things up. Also, Sayaka's behavior reminds people of religious bigots. In fact, Sayaka has tried to attack Homura in the name of her deity (Madokami).
>>2047703
Wow, Homufags become more and more retarded every single day.
>>2047649
Whatever.
>>2047690
You're not alone.
>>2047656
>>2047671
You're right, I was mostly talking about how she acted in the anime. Yeah, she's improving, but I still don't like her attitude. I hope for her sake she can truly redeem herself in whatever comes next.
>>2047773
I see you've started to learn how to be subtle, but your arrogant nature shines through your post, shitpost-chan.
>>2047773
While I do ship Kyousaya,I think Madohomu is a terrible ship. Personally prefer to have Homu alone.
>>2047834
Did you not notice that Sayaka has a penis in that picture?
>>2047835
Awwww shit
>>2047839
That artist for the futa picture does futa most of the time, if you see that artstyle, take a good hard look to make double sure there isn't a penis.
>>2047559
Sayaka deserves a chance. No need to be so rude.
Hi Usotsuki here, these pictures are from Madogatari at Nagoya. ;)
>>2047986
HoMado climbing the stairs to adulthood together at last.
>>2047981
Please tell me this is a new camrip leak.
>>2048053
I'm sorry but only pictures.
>>2047821
>Prefer having Homu alone
You literally can't have one without the other.
>>2047996
I FUCKING HOPE SO
>>2047985
There is definitely someone in front of Madoka, but that doesn't look like a kiss.
>>2047703
Sayaka definitely fucks things up, but it's not like Homura makes things better. Homura comes at the situation too awkward and shell shocked to really make anything better.
I think it's just a matter of writing and characterization. Homura is written to be very sympathetic. Episode 10 is supposed to permanently change the way the viewer sees the characters and the series and even the ending to Rebellion makes the devil incredibly sympathetic. Sayaka on the otherhand not so much. Her resolution at the end lf the series is accepting her death and remembering the reason she made her wish. Now it's to slay the devil, who despite acting autistic, is really just a emotionally crushed child. And even if Sayaka hates Homura, Homura may be the biggest KyouSaya shipper in universe.
IMO you shouldn't hate either of them, but Homura is definitely written to be more "likable" and sympathetic.
>>2048075
>Homura may be the biggest KyouSaya shipper in universe.
Homura truly is broken if that's what she thinks. Madoka seriously needs to hurry up and fix her ass.
>>2048077
She made Kyouko Sayaka's roommate and gave Mami a pet which had killed her in a past life. Obviously, Homura knows what she wants to see, and that's some red and blue lovin'.
>>2047550
Something small and comfortable, but modern - Madoka's family has some great taste in architecture and interior design and I think she'd inherently want that for herself too. A kind of one bedroom, one living room, one kitchen kind of arrangement in a nice Mitakihara apartment building.
I can only assume that Homura wouldn't give a damn so long as things were clean and simple; irrelevant issues like "apartments" probably don't mean much to someone who spent 12 years in various levels of mental and physical discomfort. She'd probably be okay sleeping in a box on the street as long as she was still with Madoka
>>2047619
I hate watching that scene, because I'm always like "Noo, don't do the thing! oh too late you did the thing, yeah now run away stupid Sayaka";_;
>>2048080
Homura's cool and all, but she's got shit taste in OTPs.
>>2047595
>She has a very black and white view of morality, when in reality, good and evil do not exist at all, there's merely a difference in opinion and belief in what will provide the best security for what you care about.
>muh moral relativism
That said, her viewpoint may not be a good one but it's entirely a realistic one. There are people in real life just like her; a lot of people, not just 'serial killers' or 'tyrants'. She was able to go above and beyond (like killing those dudes on the train) because she had the power to do so but it's not like there aren't many people who wouldn't do the same.
On top of that, her flawed perspective allowed her to be a foil to Kyouko and be a point of comparison for all of the girls, just like their viewpoints (Kyouko's initial selfishness, Madoka's self-defeating selflessness, Mami's justice, Homu's single-minded obsession) did for everyone else.
>>2048080
>Homura literally made her and the blue baka room mates
>KyouSaya begins
>Accidently revives Sayaka
>Doesn't annihilate her right then and there
>Tells her to fuck off and go much some red carpet
>Sayaka ends the movie playing the pocky game with Kyouko
KyouSayafags who are anti-MadoHomu should kill themselves.
>>2048089
>Homu has shit taste in OTPs
Take that back now.
>>2048093
What are you gonna do? Call me a disrespectful degenerate? Come at me, sis.
>>2048095
It's just a low-tier ship. They don't talk in Rebellion or anything. The colors are nice, that's about it.
>>2048097
You're a low tier ship. Haha, how do you feel about that sick burn, sis?
>>2048095
>Implying I have a problem with ketchup and mustard
MamiNagi is my secpnd favorite ship.
>>2048098
MamiKyou will never be canon and no one on the production team cares for it, or they would have appeared on more merchandise together. But nope, everything's KyouSaya and MamiNagi.
Boom, right back atcha.
>>2048101
Kyouko and Sayaka never got a manga spin off dedicated mostly to their relationship. Take that, sis. Not my fault the production team has shit taste too.
>>2048105
Who needs spinoff manga when we've got official material?
>>2048097
Tch, fine by me, i always main the low tier character, so of course my OTP will be low tier, that's what a realwoman does
>>2048109
The manga is official and canon. Speaking of which, I've had multiple people tell me TDS isn't canon before, yet nobody has ever told me why. Can any of you tell me?
>>2048107
>If they're going to die they'll do so together and ascend to a higher plain together as lovers. That's super romantic.
Homu fucked it up once already - although she was mentally fucked, so I can't really blame her - so let's hope she's a bit more careful next time
>>2048101
>KyouSaya
>MamiNagi
That's because they need to be paired to be worth buying.
>>2048080
I'm going to challenge this idea. Is there any evidence that Homura influenced the behavior of the people she pulled into her labyrinth?
She just provided a nice environment and the things that happened occurred naturally.
>>2048113
>Can any of you tell me?
It's not canon for the same reason that Tart/Suzune/Tamura/Homura's Revenge/etc. aren't.
>>2048113
Because you'd think that they'd reference it in Rebellion, right? It's mainly Homura's story but Kyouko and Mami speak like once in the whole thing and it's about tea and stuff. There's no "You've always been a greedy-guts", no "What about that cake you mad for mee a long time ago?" or anything like that. The relationship is next to nonexistant outside of "She's the leader of this group that I'm in now".
If it was canon, don't you think they'd slip something in?
>>2048117
Well she did manipulate their memories. Our entire personalities are formed from our memories, if Homura is a KyoSaya shipper, she would give everyone memories based off what she wants.
>>2048119
That's a different matter, an obvious joke manga can be considered non canon due to it's conflicting nature. But TDS doesn't conflict with anything as far as I remember and it fits with the tone of the rest of the series.
>>2048121
Rebellion had too much fan service in it, they put the stuff that would make the majority happy in it. Why else would Mami have Bebe, other than because she killed her in the past?
>>2048114
She won't fuck it up twice. The Swan Lake stuff and Japanese cultural ideas on lover's suicides all point to them reuniting in heaven.
>>2048122
So, alright, then. When whatever movie/show comes out next, if they reference TDS in any way, I'll accept it as canon. But as it stands it's a side-story, a potential what-if. It's barely more than a fanfic someone came up with.And Mami's worst girl, in the end. Not bad, but worst.
>>2048117
>Is there any evidence that Homura influenced the behavior of the people she pulled into her labyrinth?
>She just provided a nice environment and the things that happened occurred naturally.
I'd argue that even if she simply wiped their minds or replaced their memories at some point, she inherently affected them and the way they thought/acted. Homura seemingly 'reset' everyone and made them forget the events of the tv series or the lead up to her universe reset.
Whether she erased/reset their memories or outright replaced them (and thus had more control over what filled their heads afterwards - and following that, their actions) is up for debate
>>2048122
>Rebellion had too much fan service in it, they put the stuff that would make the majority happy in it. Why else would Mami have Bebe, other than because she killed her in the past?
>"It made people happy so it's not 'good' canon."
On a meta level, yes - Nagisa was added in order to ship Mami with someone and give her a 'partner' for official art/merch, the way Homura and Madoka or Kyouko and Sayaka are set up. There's no need to focus on that meta-level though.
In-story, there's the simple excuse of Madoka having saved Nagisa from ever being a witch, and it's possible that she wanted to reconcile Mami with the person who, without being in real mental control, killed her.
>>2048124
Sure it's a side story and yes, it doesn't even contribute anything to the main story, but to say it's non canon seems rather biased to me. But I suppose I understand where you're coming from with your reasoning, but I'm the kind of person that would accept any type of lore or story so long as it doesn't rape or fuck up the already established good stuff.
>>2048123
Addition:
Voluntarily giving up their corporeal existence is essentially suicide.
>>2048126
>In-story, there's the simple excuse of Madoka having saved Nagisa from ever being a witch, and it's possible that she wanted to reconcile Mami with the person who, without being in real mental control, killed her.
I had never considered that, but it's still blatant fanservice. By that same logic, Sayaka could have teamed up with Elsa Maria, or that computer monitor girl, but you do make a good point.
>>2048127
But then consider that they broke up on bad terms. I can't imagine Mami coming to like the wild beast Kyouko became. I can't imagine Kyouko calming down for her. Kyouko likes Sayaka because she reminds her of her old self in a positive way. Mami was there during the bad times as well so she probably has some bitter memories surrounding her.
You just don't like Sayaka, nee-chan. That's okay. But that doesn't mean it makes MamiKyou a likely pairing.
>>2048132
When I think about MamiKyou, I think about them in a post Witch world, where Kyouko would have no reason to become such a psychopath. In a world with Witches, I doubt they would have a good time together.
>>2048127
>but I'm the kind of person that would accept any type of lore or story so long as it doesn't rape or fuck up the already established good stuff.
The Wraith arc seemingly doesn't mess with canon, but its in-canon status is still debated and it is far closer to 'important' than TDS is. Until the Wraith arc is accepted or unaccepted there's no use in trying to figure out where TDS stands.
>>2048123
>The Swan Lake stuff and Japanese cultural ideas on lover's suicides all point to them reuniting in heaven
I'd love to be this hopeful, but the Butcher isn't necessarily known for following through with such norms straight up (even if he isn't technically deconstructing them).
>>2048131
>I had never considered that, but it's still blatant fanservice. By that same logic, Sayaka could have teamed up with Elsa Maria, or that computer monitor girl, but you do make a good point.
Sure, but Sayaka already has Kyouko. Mami - a girl who is truly lonely in canon, and was 'lonely' in merch too - had no one. Who better to give her than a fan-favorite witch and one who actually did something with a lasting effect in series (that is, killing Mami).
Madoka would have a connection to Nagisa for that same reason; seeing Mami get killed was a turning point for her, and smashed her dreams of happy megucas. Bebe very easily could've killed her too, had Homu not stepped in.
Saying it was simple fanservice, or that fanservice was the only reason Nagisa was added in at all is simplifying it.
>>2048135
I have not seen the Wraith arc yet, so I don't know the context, is it a full manga or short?
>>2048135
>Butcher isn't necessarily known for following through with such norms straight up
Rebellion's motif was 100% Nut Cracker, down to Homura deciding to go back to sleep. Inucurry does the motifs, not Urobuchi. InuCurry also did the Faust motif in the series.
>>2048138
>Rebellion's motif was 100% Nut Cracker, down to Homura deciding to go back to sleep.
>Inucurry does the motifs, not Urobuchi. InuCurry also did the Faust motif in the series.
Is that so? Maybe I can have a bit more faith in a good end - even a lover's suicide good end.
Swan Lake does add some interesting things to play with, motif-wise
>>2048143
I am 98% positive that Madoka will end with a happy ending. Everyone wants it and things are started to go well. Literally the only thing that's left before the happy ending is Homura getting some sense slapped into her and Sayaka realizing Homura is the best.
>>2048143
I really don't know why you wouldn't expect them to be together. I don't expect them to live, but I expect them to be together. Homura not being able to reconcil with Madoka would be more than "muh bittersweet ending", it would just be fucking depressing and not something fans waited years for.
>>2048146
I would actually be furious to a level where I would feel physically sick if Homura and Madoka didn't get their happy end. A bittersweet ending would also make me sick, but less so.
>>2048144
>and things are started to go well. Literally the only thing that's left before the happy ending is Homura getting some sense slapped into her and Sayaka realizing Homura is the best.
Things aren't starting to go well as much as the situation is literally at its lowest possible point and things can only really go up from here.
>>2048146
>I really don't know why you wouldn't expect them to be together. I don't expect them to live, but I expect them to be together. Homura not being able to reconcil with Madoka would be more than "muh bittersweet ending", it would just be fucking depressing and not something fans waited years for.
It's not that I don't expect them to be together as much as it is that I don't trust the writers to entirely pander to fans; not without some kind of TWEEST or caveat to their togetherness.
I'm trying to be a bit guarded - I never would have expected anything like Rebellion to have occurred, so I'm paranoid about what's coming next.
Shit, I didn't even expect the series to end the way it did - without Rebellion coming along we would've been left forever with "Homura maybe will be with Madoka, but she has to continue to live and suffer for something that isn't certain" as the ending.
>>2048149
It would turn Madoka into a nihilistic joke. Homura deserves to be redeemed, even if she has to get an ass beating on the way.
>>2048137
It's a full manga. It's also a shitty manga.
>>2048151
>not without some kind of TWEEST or caveat to their togetherness.
Madoka goes back to the Law of Cycles. Homura comes with her and serves as her eternal partner. Madoka will have to leave everyone again and go back to being non-existet, but she is no longer alone in her existence as a concept.
Expect something along those lines.
>>2048161
>>Madoka goes back to the Law of Cycles. Homura comes with her and serves as her eternal partner. Madoka will have to leave everyone again and go back to being non-existet, but she is no longer alone in her existence as a concept.
The Law of Cycles is still considered as a fate worse than death, whether Madoka is with someone or not.
I expect something closer to finally ending the need for mahou shoujo or having Madoka and Homura "drop out" of the system together. No more fighting, no more witches or nightmares or wraiths, and no more suffering.
>>2048165
Homura has enslaved the Incubators, maybe she can force them to do something.
>>2048165
>I expect something closer to finally ending the need for mahou shoujo or having Madoka and Homura "drop out" of the system together. No more fighting, no more witches or nightmares or wraiths, and no more suffering.
Now that's fantasy. I've thought about that, Madoka wants magical girl wishes to come true, even if the consequence is death. Homura just wants to be with Madoka. Even if the LoC is something that is a fate worse than death, Madoka is still okay with that decision and that is her wish. Homura's wish was to be strong enough to protect Madoka. If having Homura around lessens her burden, them Homura's wish is granted.
>>2048167
>Madoka wants magical girl wishes to come true
Does she actually?
>>2048169
More like she wants their general wishes of happiness to come true, rather than their Magical Girl making wish.
>>2048169
Yes. She says so in episode 12. She eliminated witches because she didn't watch magical girls to have their wishes end in total despair. Her entire conversation with Sayaka was telling her that the onlh way she could have lived is if her wish wasnt granted, hence why she showed her the ultimate outcome of her wish to heal Kyousuke's arm.
>Even if the LoC is something that is a fate worse than death, Madoka is still okay with that decision and that is her wish. Homura's wish was to be strong enough to protect Madoka. If having Homura around lessens her burden, them Homura's wish is granted.
My personal problem with another LoC end is that it'd just be reiterating the anime ending. It'd feel like the entirety of Rebellion and the new project is for nothing - and all that character development and suffering too - if the PMMM narrative is ended in a way that goes back to the anime ending anyway.
If Homura was just going to end up in the LoC with Madoka, they could've skipped everything and added her in from the beginning. It's going back to the status quo at the end of the anime, but slightly changed.
I'd like to see almost anything else as the ending (as long as they are still together in some way)
>>2048169
>Does she actually?
Yes. Madoka cares about all the girls throughout tme who have made wishes out of desperation or ignorance or unhappiness or any number of things. She's seen how her friends have suffered, and doesn't want that for others. I think this is a point that's non-negotiable.
Her issue is that she's putting this feeling ahead of her own happiness and well-being, and in a way is still a magical girl suffering from the effect of her wish. She didn't solve the problem so much as she took the burden on herself in a way that didn't make her or those who care about her happy.
>>2048173
>They could've skipped everything and added her in from the beginning.
Homura wasn't a concept. Thus she could not join Madoka as a concept. Thus this ending could not have happened.
>>2048176
>Homura wasn't a concept. Thus she could not join Madoka as a concept. Thus this ending could not have happened.
That's splitting hairs.
Concept or not, if Homura was going to end up in the LoC it could've been done already. Whether the writers had Madoka do it or whether they gave Homu another wish (thanks to hers being invalidated by Madoka's actions) or something/
It's disgustingly unsatisfying for the series to move forward from the tv ending, go throughout all of the actions in Rebellion, create an entirely new project to advance on what happened in Rebellion, and then end it in the same place as the tv series anyway.
>>2048113
>Can any of you tell me?
The spin-off manga is official but it being official doesn't make it canon.
Canon is defined as what's true within the fictional setting. The Different Story is a what-if story that portrays a familial Kyouko and Mami in their past.
Nothing in the anime/movies implies this actually happened nor is it ever mentioned.
Meaning, that their is no actual connection between the two storylines.
In series, Mami and Kyouko only knew each other out of the magical girl territorial system.
>>2048177
>Splitting hairs
It's really not. The fact you can't see the difference means you didn't understand the exact perimeters of Madoka's wish. Madoka accepts her wish. Asking her to give up her wish would be denying a huge aspect of her character. She also has to return because her wish specifically stipulated that witches would be eliminated by her own hands. The fact we see witches in the concept movie is proof that Homura can't bandaid this.
>>2048178
While your points are valid, TDS still does not contradict anything and just because it's never referenced in the future doesn't mean it didn't happen. As for the territory explanation it could be that Kyouko was too bitter to elaborate to anyone about her previous relationship and settled with something that wouldn't be questioned. As far as I'm concerned, if it's official and does not contradict the original lore, tone or characters, then it's canon unless specifically denied by the owner of the canon.
>>2048149
The anime already had a bittersweet ending, and it drove Homura to despair.
>>2048187
You forget that TDS doesn't even have relevance to the main story, so it isn't mentioned as a result. Not every single bit of lore needs to be referenced in the main work, unless it is absolutely necessary to understand the story that is being told at that time. Thank you, for once, for actually contributing to the discussion as well, I know it's hard for you. Now just clean up your attitude and maybe people will start to take you more seriously, insulting people and telling them they're bad people for shipping fictional characters is childish.
>>2048181
>Asking her to give up her wish would be denying a huge aspect of her character
>She also has to return because her wish specifically stipulated that witches would be eliminated by her own hands.
There are ways to have the spirit of her wish granted without going backwards.
In fact, we now have two characters with universe-altering powers. While I certainly don't believe the conflicts should be settled with a wave of a goddesses hand, it's possible to
>End all Magical Girls suffering
>End all witches by Madoka's hand
Without her going back to the Law of Cycles - again, a fate worse than death and something Madoka might not have chosen if there was another way to fix the mahou shoujo issue and not have to leave her friends and family, or take the entire world on her shoulders.
The characters should develop and evolve. This doesn't mean that there original beliefs need to be dropped, but that they can find new ways to think and fix problems because of their experiences.
>>2048194
I think Homura controlling the Incubators is the best attempt at finding a solution. They created the magical girls and even manipulated the LoC, I'm sure something can be done to put an end to all this bullshit.
>>2048192
>>2048095
>>2048098
>>2048105
This behavior is actually childish so you're not in any position to be calling out on others behavior.
>>2048198
Sarcastic banter is childish sure, but not nearly as much as telling people they are objectively bad and telling them to kill themselves.
>>2048199
Would appreciate if you tone down your sarcasm then.
Seeing users here behave that way just gives off an obnoxiously bad image.
>>2048196
>I think Homura controlling the Incubators is the best attempt at finding a solution. They created the magical girls and even manipulated the LoC, I'm sure something can be done to put an end to all this bullshit.
Really, the girls' best bet would be to send the incubators on their way and tell them to fuck off.
Humanity is at a point in the show technologically where they can probably keep advancing without Incubator/MG intervention.
Also, the eventual heat death of the universe through entropy is sad, sure, but it's billions of years off and in reality is something you can learn to just accept. You'd think the Incubators would have thought of the "big bang/big crunch" cycle theory by now anyway. Or figured out a better way of energy harvesting.
>>2048201
I'll tone down my sarcasm as soon as a certain someone starts treating us with common courtesy and doesn't tell me to kill myself for shipping fictional characters that exist purely for our entertainment.
>>2048202
The best thing to do is ship all the Incubators to death camps and exterminate the little shits.
>>2048201
>Seeing users here behave that way just gives off an obnoxiously bad image.
I understand that /u/ is a more 'civil' place than most boards and that people shouldn't be jumping at each other's throats all the time but nee-san, this is 4chan. "Obnoxious sarcasm" and "a bad image" are par for the course.
>>2048206
Global rule six, you'd be surprised.
>>2048209
Go ahead and find a single person other than you who has a legitimate problem with me. I haven't broken any rules posting what you think is crack and I don't insult people for their opinions.
>>2048210
>implying people pay attention to the global rules
>implying rules can override the spirit of 4chan and its posters.
That said, I'll go back to posting about qt magical lesbians now
>>2048217
I have never been banned for posting "crack" on 4chan. I have never received a warning or anything negative for this. I will say however that I do deserve to be banned for falling for your bait and giving you attention.
>>2048213
>what you think is crack
Anon, KyouMami is crack. Outside your TDS/CD3, where else is are them bonding supported?
The anime/movies has nothing but a few lines in between.
Also, it's been said before but The Different Story doesn't support a romance between the two anyway.
That aside, I've found some very toxic behaviour regarding around people spamming crack content and flooding the thread with meta.
All directed towards "ACK" and not a care for those who happen to share the thread with.
It's given crack shippers an even worse image and frankly, I find myself trying not to get involved.
Anyway, I'm getting off topic so I'll stop there.
Here you can pretty much post any yuri pair so you're not really doing anything wrong but you're just not supporting the official pairs that the story happens to write.
I can't say too much because of strict moderation hugbox.
>>2048221
I honestly don't care if people dislike my crack shipping, I'm happy with MamiKyou and if people have a problem with it, that's their issue. I'm not doing anything wrong. I'm contributing and encouraging rational and polite discussion, if certain people don't want to be civil and prefer to post off topic whining about things that don't matter, that's not my fault.
>>2048221
I dunno, anon. KyouMami is still supported by TDS. It's not like that time I shipped Alex Cabot/Lorelai Gilmore because of one writer from lj. Now THAT was crack.
>>2048224
You completely dodged my topic but you'very admitted that it is crack so there's really no point in arguing that then.
>>2048225
>I dunno, anon. KyouMami is still supported by TDS.
You're probably samefagging seing as how you were both quick to reply but go on ahead and give me so reasons why in your opinion, you belive so.
>>2048229
Now, I'll be completely honest, I haven't read TDS in a good long while, so my memory of it is a little hazy. But from what I do remember, Mami and Kyouko had a very sweet familial relationship. A bigger and older sister type relationship, they relied on each other in combat and for moral support. That sort of relationship can definitely evolve into a romantic one and I believe to myself that it would have if things had gone better for them. I completely understand that people can view this as a simple sisterly relationship and I don't disparage them for that.
>>2048233
Yet you do disparage us for liking KyouSaya and liking Sayaka.
>>2048236
I do not. I think KyouSaya is a shitty ship, but I don't think you're shit for liking it. And I like Sayaka's character and how she contributes to the story, I just think she as a person is a shit.
>>2048233
I see, thanks for sharing.
It does portray a sisterly relationship between the two and I liked that fanon representation.
Still will never understand how others can like the pair romantically or how they convince themselves that. But each to their own.
As I said before, I don't want myself getting involved with crack content.
Though when someone goes around claiming everything canon, I have to debate.
>>2048233
Mami can't get any girlfriend because she keeps getting sister-zoned or mom-zoned. She should be more straightforwardly sexual in her advances.
>>2048245
What?
>>2048229
>You're probably samefagging
No, I just think 4chan has a very low tolerance for anything outside of strict canon and it's a thought that's been brewing in my mind for a while. Non-canon isn't crack, writing an elaborate au for two characters from completely different genres is crack.
>>2048095
The person that drew this, has never seen a vagina IRL
>>2048269
The picture as a whole is kinda bad. Drawing is hard.
>>2048247
>implying Mami didn't eat Madoka's cherry in the first timeline
>>2048269
I'm just glad someone drew it for me and I think it's perfect.
>>2048269
It sorta looks like the artist thinks vaginas are where penises are. It looks like Kyouko's trying to give a handjob to a micro dong.
>>2048276
I don't have the original version of the image, but the artist based it off my request in the drawthread, so blame that on the original.
>>2048276
In all fairness, women do have microdongs.
They're just called something else.
>>2048282
I think they may be called clitorises, but don't quote me on that, Anonymous.
>>2048283
I think they're called hysteria cores, because they're shaped like buttons and women become hysteric when you press them. They're also known as classy beans, but the reason for that is unknown.
I wish we could ask an actual woman, but unfortunately nobody has seen any for the last five hundred years.
>>2048284
>I wish we could ask an actual woman, but unfortunately nobody has seen any for the last five hundred years.
Yeah, the Dark Wars were fucking rough. At least we have synthetic lesbians now.
Apple and Strawberry a best.
>all those filenames on the Kyoumami images
Ah so you are indeed the one spamming all the crack on /a/. Great fucking job.
>>2048092
How are you so sure that this was Homura's doing though? It could very well be that the natural course of things was that Kyouko would transfer into their school after she and Sayaka stopped trying to kill each other. And while I think Kyouko could have also moved in with Mami, it doesn't really feel out of place for Kyouko to live with her new best friend. Especially considering Sayaka's great sense of justice and her thinking of giving Kyouko a place to live at.
>>2048325
I wonder what the Sayaka's conversation with her parents getting them to let Kyouko live there was like.
>>2048329
I wonder if such a conversation even took place since all their memories before the 25th of March, 2011 are just false fabrications.
Other than that, do we have confirmation that Sayaka's parents are even around?
>>2048332
IIRC there's a scene in the TV series where Madoka goes to Sayaka's house and talks to her parent though the intercom after Sayaka goes missing in her despair spiral.
>>2048325
Kyouko's conversation with Homura in Rebellion.
>>2048194
>Without her going back to the Law of Cycles - again, a fate worse than death and something Madoka might not have chosen if there was another way to fix the mahou shoujo issue and not have to leave her friends and family, or take the entire world on her shoulders
All wishes have costs. If they just free Madoka and Homura from fate, then we enter a world where Mami is fo sure dead and Kyouko is most likely dead. If they create a world with no meguca but everything is the way it was right before, Homura still has more than a decades worth of trauma. If we get a world where there are no more magical girls, everyone is alive, but the girls have their memories wiped, then we get Mami Tomoe's Everyday Life as the things that led Madoka and Homura to love each other (not to mention KyouSaya) are now none events. Be careful what you wish for.
>>2048354
I think that supports the theory of implantation of false memories rather than Homura having had a hand in how things turned out before March 25th, 2011.
>>2048369
Oh I got you. I go with the "Homura created the conditions, everything else was natural". In that regard, she is still a KyouSaya shipper because she allowed for the conditions to exist.
Final Update on the Madogatari Polling Results for all days:
1. Shinobu
2. Homura Akemi
3. Senjougahara
4. Kyouko
5. Madoka
6. Hachikuji
7. Hanekawa
8. Sayaka
9. Mami
10. Sengoku
>>2048395
>sayaka above mami and fucking snake
Justice is served.
>>2048274
Reminder that Madoka Magica is low key NTR.
>>2048404
I don't hate Mami, she's just my least favorite. I am glad Sayaka placed over her too.
>>2048321
I don't go to /a/ sis, there aren't any lesbians over there.
Pink and blue are otp
>>2048636
I love these two.
Is it possible for Homura to be happy after any of this? Even if she was with Madoka, I think it'd take some serious work to get her to a healthy place, mentally.
The poor girl was suffering from PTSD after 12 years of suffering before the mental mushroom cloud that was Rebellion.
>tfw even if/when the next project ends with the two being together, we probably won't get any MadoHomu daily life scenes.
>>2048738
>The poor girl was suffering from PTSD after 12 years of suffering before the mental mushroom cloud that was Rebellion.I could've worded that much better
>>2048738
A week of nonstop constant sex with Madoka would cure her, no problem. Squirt her PTSD out, like pic related.
>>2048741
After so much heartbreak and violence and negative emotions, what she needs is a week of nonstop gentle loving and cuddling. All the sweetness and softness she can get.
The nonstop week of constant sex would come after that.
>>2048748
No, fuck that, cuddling is for after sex when you're tired and don't wanna move too much.
>>2048749
>No, fuck that, cuddling is for after sex when you're tired and don't wanna move too much.
I think the physical and emotional catharsis of the culmination of 12 years worth of suffering would certainly tire someone out for quite a while. She'd be mentally and physically exhausted once everything finally goes well for once.
>>2048738
They have eternity to work things out. Once Homura makes that first step, she'll begin her road to recovery. As long as Madoka is with her, she'll be fine.
Homura will be sleeping and resting her head on Madoka's shoulder in the end. I guarentee it.
>>2048762
>They have eternity to work things out. Once Homura makes that first step, she'll begin her road to recovery. As long as Madoka is with her, she'll be fine.
The problem is getting there. The problem, really, is getting Homura to accept help, accept herself, and take that necessary first step.
I feel as though this will be harder than we expect
>>2048816
>The final character conflict won't be easy to overcome
You don't say.
>>2048819
Point taken
>>2048821
I'm expecting Madoka to have some sort of "awakening" early on. The way Ai's description is written, I don't think it gives a shit if Homura wants to let Madoka go or not. Something like this would have to force her to team up with Sayaka. That would be the only reason I see them coming to an understanding on their shared affection for Madoka.
>>2048830
I'm actually happy to see that Sayaka and Homura seem to be working together here.
>>2048921
It's certainly more interesting than the curb stomping everyone wants Sayaka to get at the hands of the devil.
>>2048830
>The way Ai's description is written, I don't think it gives a shit if Homura wants to let Madoka go or not. Something like this would have to force her to team up with Sayaka. That would be the only reason I see them coming to an understanding on their shared affection for Madoka.
>Homu and Sayaka team up to defeat other Homus.
I like it.
Hopefully we finally, finally get a fight scene between Homura and Sayaka, even if it's not "real" Homura.
>>2048921
>>2048936
Agreed
Reminder that Homura has always hated herself;_;
>>2049078
Don't we all, fem?
>>2049079
Homura or ourselves?
>>2049082
Ourselves.
It's hard to hate someone as sympathetic as Homura
>>2049078
She needs some comfort and love, and very soon.
>>2047550
This exceptional fanfiction shall answer you question. Use it wisely Anon. http://archiveofourown.org/works/577310/chapters/1035515
>>2049084
You don't know how much I hope for MoeHomucifer.
>>2049242
>MoeHomucifer
>"K-kaname-chan, I-I'm doing this for your own good. F-forget about being a goddess!"
>>2049254
>Implying Moemura would ever use -chan
>>2049264
I honestly couldn't remember if she always called Madoka "Kaname-san" or "Kaname-chan".
But hey, MoeHomucifer is "evil", right? Calling her -chan is just how low she's willing to go.
>>2049265
It feels so right even if Homura is an eternal dork.
>>2049273
Dork means penis.
>>2049273
>Has literally re-written the universe at this point
>For better or worse has control over the minds of Madoka and her friends
>Has her cool loner post-Moemura look
>Still dorky and respectful enough to call Madoka "Kaname-san"
Sure, it's something of an "act", but Homu will always be Homu, I guess.
>>2049278
Madoka likes it
>>2049281
>Madoka likes it
Of course she does. There's no way she's not gonna get wet over a cool, calm, and collected Homu
>>2049303
Madoka did always say she wanted Homura to be cool.
>>2049334
It is.
Wish I had more of him.
>>2049337
>>2049339
>>2049340
Yo, solo images aren't really allowed here.
>>2049343
Wait, they're not?
I thought this was a hybrid board (porn and discussion). But, you know, pertaining specifically to yuri.
There are other threads with hentai dominating them, so it should be fine, right?
>>2049345
I mean, porn's fine but there should be at least two girls in the image. That's what I mean by solo.
>>2049348
Ah, I see what you mean now. My bad.
>>2049345
Not that anon, but yuri is a two girl job.
>>2049351
>>2049352
Sorry senpaitachi
Who should be more submissive, Madoka or Homura
So is this incest or masturbation?
>>2049354
Magical girl/goddess Madoka is confident and dominent as fuck. Homura at the end of the day is still Homura.
Meguca Homura doms non-meguca Madoka
Meguca Madoka doms non-meguca Homura
Meguca Madoka doms meguca Moemura
Meguca Madoka can go either way with cold meguca Homura, but Homura wants to be dommed
Akuma Homura doms non-meguca (probably meguca as well) Madoka
Goddess Madoka has the potential to dom any Homura, but goes vers with Akuma Homura for the equal partnership angle
>>2049361
>hentai is toxicity
Then why are you on this board?
>>2049358
If you have sex with a clone of yourself, it's incest as it can be considered your offspring.
If you have sex with an alternate universe version of yourself, it's just normal sex as you have no physical relation.
If you have sex with a future or past version of yourself, it's selfcest as your having sex with yourself and you do not have control over that version of you.
If you occupy multiple bodies with a single mind and have sex with one, it's masturbation.
>>2049366
>If you have sex with a clone of yourself, it's incest as it can be considered your offspring.
Offspring is half your genes combined with half of somebody else's. If it's all your genes, then it's a clone. They're mutually exclusive.
>>2049392
Well I wasn't getting technical there, I'm just saying it would be your offspring, seeing as your DNA allowed to it be born.
>>2049840
>I'm just saying it would be your offspring, seeing as your DNA allowed to it be born.
Still, that's not how that works.
If anything, fucking a clone would be more like fucking an identical twin than an offspring.
>another argument over semantics
Never change, /u/.
>>2048182
Guys, guys Check this.
What if all those Spin-offs
Are from different iterations of the Timeline during Homura's Constant Timeline Looping?
(Ergo, they're all canon, just not to the Final timeline)
>>2049854
>Not written by Urobuchi
>Not directed by Shinbo
Why are these two simple criteria so hard to understand?
>>2049870
K dude, I get your point, but just bear with me for a Second
>Time Travel
>Infinite possibilities
>>2049877
Check this out
>Muh licensed doujinshi
>Muh head canon
>>2049842
If it's like fucking a twin, then that's still a form of incest.
>>2049854
Yeah, but TDS takes place before the time loops.
>>2049905
Farewell Story took place before the loops. TDS diverges from Farewell.
>>2049910
I never heard of Farewell Story, sorry. Is that an audio thing or what?
>>2049913
Yes. Farewell Story is what the first volume of TDS is based on. Namely Kyouko and Mami meeting.The problem with both of these is that Kyouko NEVER mentions any of this to Sayaka when she's spilling out her life story.
>>2049916
Oh, I see. Well if Farewell came out after the anime ended, then that's just a simple retcon. Or Kyouko just refrained from mentioning that part of her past.
>>2049919
It came out basically at the same time as the anime. It came with volume 4. I remember 'cause people thought it was gonna be KyouSaya.
>>2049919
It's not mentioned in the revisized movies either.
>>2049920
By that time the anime's story was finished and done, they probably made it on the side without thinking that it would end up being awkward.
>>2049922
Did they even add any new lines for Kyouko at all? I don't remember. But even so, Kyouko could have simply just not mentioned it for whatever reason.
>>2049925
The problem is it's not important to the plot at all. A pre-existing relationship betweem Mami and Kyouko is a non-issue because at no point in the story is the relationship between Kyouko and Mami relevant to the events of the narrative.
>>2049940
Yeah, that's why it's never mentioned. That's what I was getting at.
>>2049941
>Not mentioned
>Not relevent to the plot
>Filler
>Non-canon
>>2049942
I don't know how you came to that assumption. But I've already said all I can about whether or not TDS is canon, no need to repeat myself.
So based on my observations from the Madogatari results, Twitter, and Pixiv, I can take it that Japan is not nearly as assmad/splint on Homura as the Western fan base seems to be? I don't see words like psychopath or abuser casually thrown around.
>>2049953
That's because Japan is generally more polite.
>>2049954
Nice meme.
>>2049956
Thank you.
>>2049953
>casually thrown around
They simply whisper behind her back.
"Do you know the thing about a certain Miss A?"
"I know I know, it was unforgivable."
>>2049953
That's the power of self-selection bias.
>le TDS isn't canon meme
It is. The thing is that it doesn't support Kyoumami in any way. It establishes their relationship as merely sisterly.
>>2050079
But wanting to fuck your sister is one of the most common yuri tropes.
