>Dr. Manhattan:She was pregnant. And you gunned her down.
>Edward Blake:That's right. And you know what, you watched me. You could've turned the gun into steam, the bullets into mercury, the bottle into goddamned snowflakes but you didn't, did you? You really don't give a damn about human beings. You're driftin' out of touch, Doc. God help us all.
Who was in the wrong here?
>>71822224
Both of them. Fuck Comedian and people who say he was bro-tier. Rorschach was the real hero in this kino.
>>71822224
Who cares? It's just some shitskin gook. We need less of those animals.
Manhattan. Proved he didn't care about humanity. Comedian was always unsympathetic so it's easy to claim he was wrong. When it's what he would do every time.
>>71822224
It's an allegory towards a benevolent and good God and man.
If God is benevolent and good he wouldn't allow a world with evil. Because evil exists God is either not good or not benevolent.
That is what the comedian was trying to show/say. Dr. Manhattan is no longer good, he's filth just like the comedian.
The Comedian, you can't depend on a god to clean your own ass.
>>71822293
Ironic post.
>>71822224
Neither. Thats the beauty of it.
Watchmen DC is a masterpiece.
>>71822224
everyone except Rorschach
I really hate people who shit on Watchmen and Snyder.
Worst fanboys ever.
>>71822415
Bullshit, If G-d is all powerful, then he cannot be all good
>>71822444
>Ironic post.
How so?
>>71822224
Why does Iron Man look all weird in that screencap?
>>71822470
go back to bed Lex
>>71822224
bottle woman>Manhattan>Comedian in the order of responsibility. Woman highest for initiating violence, Dr.Speedo for only abiding despite near omnipotence, Comedian for overresponding and being too fucking stupid to wear a rubber
>>71822224
The Comedian seeing as how he actually shot a pregnant woman. And Dr. Manhattan for not saving the woman from being killed.
Was it just me but it seems like when Edward's saying to Dr. Manhattan that "if it wasn't for you, we probably would've lost this war", he says it disdainfully. Like while he likes killing people, he's actually kind of mad that the U.S. didn't lose Vietnam because it would've taught America some kind of lesson?
Did anyone else get this feeling?
>>71822594
>implying dr manhattan has any responsibility for anyone but himself
morals are spooks m8 and egoism is the nectar of truth
Neither are correct.
They're both men with different types of power giving them different perspectives on what's true and what's bullshit.
Comedian lives breathes and knows this bullshit, he kinda loves it, kinda sick of it. Either way the bullshit embodies him.
Manhattan is on this kind of, truth seeking journey, and comedian is there to tell him "ey buddy you're still a shithead just like the rest of us, whether you like it or not, these people think you're scum"
No matter how true or how enlightened Dr.Manhattan is, he's still just a man, with flaws, in this stupid universe of ours.
>Rorschach
>Nite Owl
>Manhattan
>Comedian
>Ozymandias
Wow these are all really interesting charac-
>Silk Spectre
>>71822224
>mercury
Mercury is poisonous tho
>>71822453
Watchmen is great because of Moore. Snyder is a hack
>>71823140
It's poison, but it's liquid. It wouldn't be a solid bullet whizzing into a baby pouch.
>>71823148
You sound like a broken record. They're both brilliant.
>>71822224
>wrong
>>71822224
Manhattan.
Comedian was the only good guy in the film. Everybody else was too dead inside.
>>71822224
One less Vietnam Fucking Shit in the world.
>>71822415
...for some reason I think you've mistaken "benevolent" for "omnipotent," y'know seeing as "benevolent" and "good" are synonymous.
Couldn't he literally bring her back to life the second he shot her he could if manipulated the atoms in the cells and healed that shit in seconds always bothered me why he didn't or at least if he at least fave enough of a shit to be concerned about it yet did nothing to changing it
>>71823148
Gibbons deserves as much credit as Moore does, so fuck you. Moore actually liked the script they ended up using for Snyder's film also.
>>71824115
>moore actually liked the script
Gotta need a sauce on that, ive only ever heard him be pissy as fuck his comics were not 1 to 1 adapted to the silver screen.
>>71823084
I don't think anyone denies she was pretty boring. Really i blame the actress, not the script
>>71822254
do you seriously watch that protest scene today and not relate with Comedian?
I know Snyder removed the nuances and hippie shit that made Moore's book thoughtful and interesting, but goddamn that scene feels good nowadays even if it's utterly the anti-moore
And that actor should get more roles where he throws his weight around
>>71822643
yes his cynicism is a mirror of the world, as Rorsharch says it. It's the only way the can dialogue with it.
he keeps doing awful shit that he's amazed god/universe allows him to keep doing
>>71822224
The Problem of Evil.
>If an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent god exists, then evil does not.
>There is evil in the world.
>Therefore, an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent God does not exist.
Manhattan doesn't really care about humans outside of those whom he considers his "friends" (aka his old girlfriend and Silk Spectre II).
He is de facto a god, but does nothing to prevent evil.
Manhattan is detached from reality and doesn't feel the moral need to protect or defend people. He's what a "realistic" god would be like: cold, distant, disinterested.
He doesn't think like a human being anymore.
Hence the line
>You're driftin' out of touch, Doc. God help us all.
If Doctor Manhattan is all powerful, can he create an object that he himself can't move?
>>71822224
To me it was alarmingly impressive that the Comedian was able to pin down Manhattan's direction, of all people.
>>71824502
what? that he recognized the inhumanity, lack of care, and gross neglect manhattan was heading towards?
>>71824259
That's not why he was pissy. It was dealing with Hollywood execs never getting projects off the ground or stupid legal shit. I don't think he cared about it being 1:1 adaptations, he just became bitter after a while. Watchmen had a notoriously rough time getting made going from one studio to the next with multiple directors attached.
David Hayer(Solid Snake) wrote a screenplay which was what they ended up using(with some rewrites) for Snyder's movie. Hayter mailed the script to Alan Moore, who then gave his approval of it.
>“The first draft I sent to Alan Moore, he read it and said, ‘Oh, David, I think it’s very well done and its very close to the book, I really appreciate that. I don’t remember as much action being in the story before.’”
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=20343
>>71824479
He's a matter manipulator, so no.
He does not, however, have control on gravity. So I assume he can't "destroy" a black hole.
>>71824502
Comedians tend to be very cynical and have a somewhat clear understanding of life.
What was the Comedian's motivation for being a costumed vigilante?
Did he love justice?
Empathy?
>>71824608
He loves to beat up people and the pay is good.
>>71824553
>>71824572
Yes, keep in mind that this wasn't a bad thing to me (at all). I simply wasn't expecting it,
>>71822415
if we had no evil then we would have no free will, evil is created by man being free
i think thats the proper theist replay i think
>>71824658
Yes a common response, which is odd because the point of life is to go to heaven, a place of no evil.
>>71822224
Part of the point of Manhattans character was to say that this universe is deterministic. Neither of them are in the wrong because neither of them are doing anything besides going through the motions they were destined to.
>>71825040
i don't think simply going to heaven is the point of mortal life to most theists, its just the end of a journey. Also, saying there is no evil in heaven is up to debat from many angles
unless you're talking about crazy jahovas
>>71824658
Eh if god is all powerful and god created man. He could create a free human that wouldn't do evil.
Either he couldn't do it and thus not all powerful.
Or he could have done it and he didn't.
>Manhattan
>Rorschach
>Comedian
I don't study philosophy but these 3 guys exhibit different forms of nihilism, right?
>>71825254
i dont know how you think Rorschach displays that when it's more like its total opposite
>>71825254
Sure.
>>71825209
or he could snap his fingers and make the devil and all of those demons constantly manipulating humanity disappear. Or tone down all of those tsunamis and childhood cancers
he's probably a busy guy though
>>71825209
he did, then man ate the apple and got knowledge of god and evil
the real question is why he let satan fuck up his garden
>>71825361
>>71825209
judging the actions of a "greater cosmic entity" is like dogs trying to understand why we don't let them eat chocolate
its pointless, in the grand scope of reality the things we perceive as evil may or may not be so
>this thread
So Lex really was a good character after all.
>>71825439
>allowing some starving Malaysian child to be born with maggots in his eyes isn't necessarily evil, you just don't understand God's reasoning for it. It's really an act of love
k
>>71825291
>i dont know how you think Rorschach displays that when it's more like its total opposite
Read the comics. He goes like:
>Looked at sky through smoke heavy with human fat and God was not there. The cold, suffocating dark goes on forever and we are alone. Live our lives, lacking anything better to do. Devise reason later. Born from oblivion; bear children, hell-bound as ourselves, go into oblivion. There is nothing else. Existence is random. Has no pattern save what we imagine after staring at it for too long. No meaning save what we choose to impose
Sam Hamm's Watchmen script would have been pure kino if filmed
>>71825580
Not him, but slowly read that last sentence again.
>>71824479
You watched Psycho Pass recently didnt you?
>>71825517
>judging the actions of a "greater cosmic entity" is like dogs trying to understand why we don't let them eat chocolate
i thought this was a pretty good analogy but maybe if i made it emotionally neutral it would help you understand
>judging the actions of a "greater cosmic entity" is like dogs trying to understand why im wearing glasses
>that David Hayter script where Nite Owl kills Ozymandias with an "Owl-arang"
>blaming God
>for Humanities dark deeds
We got free will for a reason yet when we fuck up, we blame god instead of taking responsibilities. Fuck comedian for being an edgy tryhard bitch
>>71825385
>he did, then man ate the apple and got knowledge of god and evil
And if god is all knowing he knew it would happen if he left the tree of knowledge in the garden. He knew and he allowed it to happen. The real question is more fundamental.
If god is all knowing then he knows the future and if he knows the future then he knew satan would be a jealous and eventually become evil. If he knew this and he could change it then he allowed it to happen because either he doesn't care or he wanted it to happen.
>>71825439
That's about the most retarded shit anybody on this board has probably said in the last month. And i'm not even talking about how retarded the idea that it'd be impossible for dogs to understand that chocolate=death is but rather how much of waste of space you have to be to think that. Even if it was futile the struggle to find the truth of the matter would be the most noble goal we could possibly strive for and throwing your hands up in the air when the ideas you have put forward are shown to be inconsistent and saying "well we're just not smart enough to think about this stuff".
>>71822224
Theyre both moving pieces in God's divine watch. Neither of them have any free will at all, how can morality exist? Comedian and Dr. Manhatten are on the opposite sides of this same realization. One says everything is joke, inherently meaningless, the other says its a divine miracle, the meaningless having meaning by its own existance (hence the miracle speech to silk specter).
Ozy thinks he and everyone else has control and trys to be on top of the world to guide it to safety. He believes you can have morality and make your own right and wrong by your actions alone, which is why Manhattan calls him an idiot and says the Comedian understood life much more than him. Rorsache is also on Ozy's level, however his solution is to be unflinching and unyielding. Morality becomes moot in Rorsaches worldview.
Silk and Owl are the most human because they are the most ignorant, and this get a happy ending. By the end its just business as usual for them.
All the characters are trapped in Gods program, causality, and each one wrestles with this differently. How can you possibly have morality in such a world? Everyone has different answers, yet they are all as equally meaningless as they are meaningful.
>>71825671
Pretty sure the studio wanted that in there because they wanted the audience to feel like the 'villain' had been defeated. Snyder actually managed to get them to change their minds, but he had to let Nite Owl punch Ozy in the face a few times.
>>71824360
>lel fuk hippies amirite XD!!!!
He shot a pregnant woman.
An innocent pregnant woman that he impregnated.
He also killed JFK.
So no. Fuck him.
Great character, but anyone who actually likes him as a person is objectively le edgy fedoralord.
Rorschach >>>>>>>>>>
>>71825748
>Snyder actually managed to get them to change their minds, but he had to let Nite Owl punch Ozy in the face a few times.
And they say Snider is a hack.
>>71825580
Oh sure that fits, but he also was so deadlock in his belief of what was right that manhattan had to kill. No compromise, even in face of armageddon etc.
>>71822224
This film is actually pretty good. And it holds up today.
Would you be friends with him?
Would your life get better/worse?
>>71825682
Weird part of my post got cut off.
Even if it was futile the struggle to find the truth of the matter would be the most noble goal we could possibly strive for and throwing your hands up in the air when the ideas you have put forward are shown to be inconsistent and saying "well we're just not smart enough to think about this stuff" is you just saying that we just can't possibly understand why these square pegs won't fit into the round hole. This shit isn't that complicated. The claims that god is all powerful/knowing/loving are fine and dandy when you take any of them on alone but as soon as you combine them with a literal reading of the bible it becomes a complete nonsensical cluster fuck. Where objectively speaking by definition god made the universe exactly how he intended it to play out and any silver lining to the shit show won't make up for the fact that god could have had his cake and eat it too. The only way this shit works out is if your working definition of god is that he's totally cool with all the shit that the bible says is bad.
>>71822594
The Comedian is a psychopath, he is constitutionally unable to care about risks or the rights and feelings of other people. Science says this condition is almost entirely genetic. So is it really justifiable to punish him for his behaviour, any more than a schizophrenic man who stabs a woman because he believes she is a demon?
>>71825751
I am not an edgy fedora lord or w/e other buzzword you retards at /v/ have come up with
I like the Comedian cause he lived his life without fear, wasn't a faggot and never managed to get past his nihilism phase like most people nowadays
>>71825751
>He shot a pregnant woman.
you never been cut in the face with a gun in your hand to know how you'd truly react in that situation
>He also killed JFK.
hey that happens what are you gonna do you know
>le edgy fedoralord
jesus you could call me some reactionary uncle, but edgy fedoralord while you literally like rorsharch the edgy LITERAL fedora lord? cmon
>>71822224
Blake for murdering a pregnant woman?
>>71822594
rubbers aren't magic
you can still get a girl pregnant or catch an STD even if you wear one
>>71825682
im pretty sure i already said the "real question is why he let satan fuck up his garden"
half your post is just saying what i already said
also
>That's about the most retarded shit anybody on this board has probably said in the last month. And i'm not even talking about how retarded the idea that it'd be impossible for dogs to understand that chocolate=death is but rather how much of waste of space you have to be to think that. Even if it was futile the struggle to find the truth of the matter would be the most noble goal we could possibly strive for and throwing your hands up in the air when the ideas you have put forward are shown to be inconsistent and saying "well we're just not smart enough to think about this stuff".
"god is a normal guy who has super powers :^), thats why using the morality that was learned to me by startrek i can understand the ebb and flow of reality and make pure truth statements about a being that created it"
>>71825641
I understand your analogy, I'm just saying it's a shit response. Saying "well we'll never know God's true will" whenever you find a contradiction is just special pleading. It makes any discussion pointless because there's only 2 possible outcomes: everyone agrees, or someone declares it's absolutely impossible to even know.
It doesn't further a conversation, it's just a cudgel to end disagreement. It's the same as those /lit/ faggots who call absolutely everything spooks
>>71825883
It goes further than that. Manhattan shows that in the universe of the story all things are deterministic. Nobody is actually in control of their actions. They are just actors on the stage of their world reading their lines that fate has given them.
>>71825814
Rorsach is LITERALLY /pol/
a right wing nutjob fighting against scumbag globalists in the name of freedom
>>71825971
no, Rorschach is /pol/ circa 2013, back when every other thread was a libertarian circlejerk and Doompaul ruled the board.
Now it's basically solely ironic racism, non-ironic racism, and SJW-level attempts at manipulating social media and shilling
>>71825971
What? No he isn't. Rorschach is a man who hates all scumbags equally but loves humanity all the same. /pol/ is neither of these things.
>>71825694
>which is why Manhattan calls him an idiot and says the Comedian understood life much more than him.
Whoa what when does this scene happen?
>>71822224
They both were, Ed never should of even thought about killing a pregnant woman. Dr.Manhatten should of tried to save her from getting killed so he was a shitty samaritan when he definitely could of saved her but he knew he wouldn't since he could see the future so I'm not sure why he was surprised, he should of known it would happen and it just shows how Dr.Manhatten was a pretty shitty person in general.
>>71825932
>"god is a normal guy who has super powers :^), thats why using the morality that was learned to me by startrek i can understand the ebb and flow of reality and make pure truth statements about a being that created it"
>It doesn't matter if my explanations make no sense to us once you push them far enough because god decided to make us too retarded to understand this sort of thing. It's just a shame though it'd be the key to humanity not being a clusterfuck of sin and he could totally do it and he loves us but he wants/needs us to suffer because of a vague silver lining about higher truths that nobody could actually know anything about even though by definition of an all power all knowing diety he could accomplish the same goals by means other than suffering unless suffering is the goal.
Maybe you're right though and the absolutely mind boggling amount of pain and suffering experienced by humanity is the goal and it's great but you can kindly fuck off if you think that.
>>71826066
>when he definitely could of saved her but he knew he wouldn't since he could see the future so I'm not sure why he was surprised, he should of known it would happen and it just shows how Dr.Manhatten was a pretty shitty person in general.
He was surprised because he feels like he has to go through the motions because he's depressed and doesn't care about human beings. Comedian spells it out in the scene, anon. Issue 11 is Dr. Manhattan being convinced as to why he should care about humans save them, when before he didn't care.
>>71825254
This is correct. When you think about it, Rorschach and the Comedian are essentially two sides of the same coin. They both share the same overwhelmingly cynical view of the world, and they both recognize the capability for violence as a base trait within everyone, especially themselves. The Comedian chooses to cope with this knowledge by living a life full of vices, and fights on the side of the Watchmen purely as an outlet for the violence within himself--the irony of which provides the basis for his "comedy" (that he is an unrepentantly amoral man fighting on the side of justice). Rorschach handles himself in the exact opposite manner, living an ascetic lifestyle and adhering to an extremely rigid sense of morality. He too is named ironically, in that Rorschach tests are subject to interpretation by definition, while he is utterly certain in his views of the world.
>comedian
>not funny
>mfw
>>71825945
it may "end conversation" but you are trying to build your theory on faulty foundations, and as such your argument cant stand. Also, dismissing my argument simply because it "ends the conversation" is ludicrous, if you cant overcome my statement then the fault is with you
you see humans are limited by the brains we have, not only can we not perceive more then 3 dimensions we can only understand concepts like infinity in theory but not in practice. the fact that you are trying to judge a "creator" by human ideals and limited understanding of the universe makes any discourse inherently flawed
i mean look, >>71825517
you IMMEDIATELY try to counter my argument by drawing an emotional response, nice logical fallacy
>>71824658
that would be the standard theist reply, which is silly because free will doesn't exist. human behavior is entirely predictable and governed by causality, only someone truly ignorant of the mechanics of human behavior, someone truly clueless about human nature, could possibly entertain the idea of free will existing as something other than a psychological sensation.
>>71826100
>god decided to make us too retarded to understand
if he made us at all? maybe he just made the universe and let things happen on their own?
>sin
morality is a human construct
>wants/needs us to suffer
or he is letting us have free will and not interfering?
maybe the issue here is you think i'm a theist?
>>71824557
> ‘Oh, David, I think it’s very well done and its very close to the book, I really appreciate that. I don’t remember as much action being in the story before.’
So I guess even the content creators are as inept and stupid as the hollywood hacks that write the drivel that make it to the screen nowadays.
>>71826327
You sound so enlightened.
>>71825641
>Humans aren't capable of breaking down complex problems and then summarizing key points to communicate them to laymen
The whole "we can't understand x" is bullshit spoken by people who themselves lack the ability to think critically.
Just say that it's Gods plan and his plan involves breaking a few eggs, in a certain cases palliative children.
>>71826367
You can't understand God's plan like an ant can't understand your weekend schedule. It is as simple as that. A blatant cop out I agree but one in line with the shit they have been peddling.
>>71825640
Is it another one of those "anime characters spout entry-level ideas from Western philosophy like they're deep" animes?
>>71826240
>you see humans are limited by the brains we have
you may have heard this before. in philosophy, whenever someone is trying to make the case that logic is inherently flawed as a way of understanding the world, the standard response is to say that trying to to make a logical argument against logic itself is cutting off the branch you are sitting on. this is because the argument relies on logic to work, but if it works it means that logic is unreliable, which means that the argument doesn't work, but if it doesn't work then there's no problem with logic, which means there's no problem with the argument, and so on ad nauseam.
saying that we can't understand god because our puny brains are not good enough suffers from the exact same problem. having explained the general principle, i'll leave it to you to work out the fine details of the refutation.
>>71826433
Yes
>>71826298
I don't understand what you're trying to argue in favor of then. I was responding to the faults in a theist argument. The argument that god the Christian god exists and it tries to solve the logical flaws that come with the idea of saying that not only is the bible true but also the god is all powerful/knowing/loving.
Since you're not arguing that all you've done is injected yourself into an argument that you have absolutely no place in because your position is so fundamentally different that it's useless to bother going into it.
It's like if I was talking to a friend about how chocolate is a better flavor than vanilla and you ran between us and in the context of the argument started arguing that Dragons exist.
So uhhh I guess good job on playing devils advocate on the christian position of god while at the same time being completely willing to toss out the idea that god dictates morality (as Christians believe) and that the god of the bible is not only real but accurately described as all knowing/powerful/loving while at the same time that the history presented to us by the bible is also true.
>>71826433
First season was, second season eased up on it a bit. I still enjoyed it.
>>71826353
I'm really not
>>71826367
i do not believe humans will over be individual omnipotent no, not with out some genetic engineering or robotics
and as such i don't think in our current limited state could we understand the actions of an omnipotent being, and even if we could we would have no way of knowing that we could
>>71825902
>rorsharch
>he edgy LITERAL fedora lord
Jesus, do you even know the meaning of the word? It's like calling batman edgy when you were accused of loving Lex character. Literally "NO U" argument, without any sense.
>>71826327
>Alan Moore adaptation
>inept
>stupid
You're gassed fãm.
>>71826401
An ant isn't self aware/able to think (I ironically can't think of the correct term).
>>71826511
Compared to God, you are about as self-aware as an Ant
>>71826507
>"its very close to the book. I really appreciate that."
Moore should be gassed
>>71826538
>Compared to God, you are about as self-aware as an Ant
And what evidence do you have to support this?
>>71826436
>>71826538
But still self aware and that's my point. Humans will never truly know what happened at the big bang but that hasn't stopped us with coming up with theories.
Weather is a complex system and not 100% accurate, we still have some concepts and ways of predicting it.
>>71826541
>Neither Moore nor Snyder "get it" as I do
>>71826611
You do understand that you're arguing with somebody that a thousand years ago would have made the same types of arguments (EI: humans are not intelligent enough to understand it) about if we could ever hope to be able to predict the weather with any sort of certainty.
Why would I save a world I no longer have any stake in?
>>71825439
Except we're not all powerful. People let harm come to their dogs through accidents all the time.
>sure is moviefag in here
Glad to see an entire thread missed the point.
It had nothing to do with him being a "god." It had to do with fatalism. John doesn't perceive time linearly. He already saw/knew The Comedian was going to shoot the woman because from his perspective he already had shot her, and always would shoot her.
>>71826436
thats completely different, one is logic vs logic the other is logic vs unknown. Its not self defeating at all
>>71826458
thats not what happened at all, you gave a logical augment vs the theist argument that i felt was flawed from a logical perspective
>>71826629
these are not original ideas. The Watchmen was a good visual novel that dealt with modernity and ethics but the movie was a steaming pile of trash.
>>71826538
comparing humans to ants is not an argument, it's an assertion. the difference between humans and ants is that ants don't have our ability use to language, create abstractions, and use logic, but humans do. to go along with the comparison, in order for god to be as to a human as humans are to ants, it would have to be that god possess some form of divine mental faculties. in order for the relationship to be the same, god would have to possess some sort of super-language, super-abstraction, and super-logic, yet you offer no reason to believe that such things can exist. the concept of super-language is incoherent, for all we know, having the ability to use language is the end of the line. the fallacy here is the no limits fallacy, just because humans are more than ant, you make the assumption that it's possible to be even more logical than humans, that super-logical beings can theoretically exist.
when do you draw the line? could there be a being so incomprehensible that even god, with his super-mind couldn't comprehend it?
>>71826541
It was though.
>>71826679
thats a good point, i guess it was a bad analogy after all
>>71826742
it is exactly the same. you are attacking your ability to understand, using your ability to understand. if you had any experience with the idea of god's ineffability (the very thing you're arguing for) you would be familiar with this.
>>71826738
This, but you're missing the part about how Dr. Manhattan was depressed, and therefore resigned himself to the visions he saw as the only way things would turn out. He casts this aside when Laurie shows him the value of human life.
>>71826772
Not it wasn't. Watchmen was a critique of superheroes and of society. These elements do not exist in the movie.
>>71826766
Guy he was replying to.
It raises the question of if intelligence is absolute or gradual.
Can something somewhat understand Gods motives if it had the capacity?
>>71826858
I get that he was depressed. He was depressed and trying to lie to himself, that he was above human emotion when he wasn't at all. My point about fatalism and time was only in regards him not stopping the bullet.
I would let Comedian fuck me in the ass tbqf
t. bear fetishist
>>71824502
To me it's just an obvious conclusion everyone in the movie would have reached without him
>>71826946
Yes, and I'm saying that Dr. Manhattan saw/experienced the possible future of Blake shooting the woman because he didn't care enough about humans to see a future where he stopped Blake.
Hence why The Comedian says "you really don't give a damn about human beings."
>>71824502
Except the Comedian was wrong.
>>71824572
Except he didn't. He was an edge lord who came up with a bullshit way of looking at the world in order to justify his shittiness, but he never really believed it deep down. That's why he has the break down and starts crying when he finds out about Ozy's plan. Because he realizes that the world really is a joke, and he was unintentionally right all along and can't deal with it.
>>71825897
Ew.
>>71826899
Snyder's Watchmen is more relevant now than ever.
>>71822224
I believe the comic is better than the movie. But the movie is an example of a compromise that isn't bad. Its a really great film and i think the movie and Snyder are brilliant.
Even Terry Gilliam said in a recent interview his version would of been worse than Snyder's.
>>71826742
Your arguments are fundamentally at ends with the theist argument.
The theist argument being made is specifically a christian one. Hence it adheres to the following
1: god is all powerful/loving/knowing
2: the bible is accurate in its history of the world and its depiction of god
3: morality is dictated by god
4: god specifically loves humanity
In your own arguments you tried to say that morality is created by humans rather than given to them by god.
In your own arguments you've tried to imply that god does not specifically love humanity and doesn't take an active interest in humans.
You basically have no beliefs regarding god that you're presenting. You're throwing around ideas about the limitation of humans specifically and then asking broad questions like "maybe he's real but he's just chilling and seeing what happens." That's cool and all but at that point you're in no way defending that theist argument by this point because your own arguments no longer line up with the theist arguments foundations.
Sure maybe god made us? Maybe he just made the universe? Maybe god made a demi god that made the universe? Maybe i'm actually god and i'm bored so I took the time to talk to you guys.
continued in part 2
>>71827000
>possible future
It wasn't a possible future to Doc. It had already happened. He believed it was immutable.
>>71826899
Yes they do.
>>71827041
Relevant in that we have a lot of people in politics devoid of substance but put on a flashy show.
>>71827084
continued from part 1
You can create a billion different of these types of "what if" scenarios. ESPECIALLY once you're fine and dandy with the idea of throwing logic itself under the bus.
Hell at this point why not argue the idea that maybe god is one of the dead sperm in your dried up jizz sock? I'd ask what the hell that has to do with anything we're talking about and you'd claim that as a human I just can't understand your jizz sock god sperm because it's a higher being and so anything that implies that your dried up jizz sock isn't god can just be ignored because logic isn't sophisticated enough.
And sorry you can't claim that fundamentally human logic isn't applicable here because you're claiming that human logic isn't sufficient in this conversation and then turn around and claim that your logic is still valid. You shot that horse already.
>>71827085
He only experiences futures about he himself. He believed in determinism and resigned himself to fate due to depression. That's why he experienced a future where Blake killed the woman.
>>71826914
it may well be that super intelligence exists but i as a normal genius can't comprehend it, but asking me to believe that such super intelligence, which is undefined, undefinable, and incoherent exists, is an insult so great that even the regular intelligence is good enough to be insulted.
>>71827098
The only remnants of it were accidental in that they are baked into the story. Hack Sydner's understandings of them were "I think he was saying superheroes were kind of funky."
The core elements were lost. This is easily seen by removing the things that showed Nite-Owl and Silk Spectre were simultaneously both insane psychopaths and lame weirdo losers.
By removing the problems the normal people faced that had nothing to do with superheroes.
And of course by removing the squid which is the lynch of the entire thematic story.
>things that showed Nite-Owl and Silk Spectre were simultaneously both insane psychopaths and lame weirdo losers.
can you elaborate on this point please
>>71827222
>And of course by removing the squid which is the lynch of the entire thematic story.
Oh, you're one of those people.
>>71822224
With Comedian as father, no wonder current Batman is a murdering psychopath.
>>71827302
please explain?
really though because the whole space squid at least had some build up in the book whereas in the movie it just came out of nowhere.
>>71827112
The living beings I create can understand me given enough time, so I don't see why we woudn't be able to understand God.
>>71825897
>with a wicked sense of humor
>>71824423
He thinks exactly like a human. That is the problem.
>>71827655
Does he?
Only when people really close to him are involved he starts thinking like a human.
He's a deeply flawed character.
>implying there's any capeshit movie that is as good as this sequence
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNXohNU3tWo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOPrkbyqk8s
>>71824360
Well, we'll see him throw his weight into a few hefty swings as Negan.
>>71824292
>>71823084
homos
>>71825971
>Rorsach
>Right Wing
Haven't you got a BLM rally to be attending cuck?
>>71827295
Not even that guy, but Silk Spectre II is really only heroing to please her mother/carry on the legacy. Nite-Owl is a geeky loser who can literally only get off while in costume.
Every character has a really shit reason to be hero. That's one of the points of Watchman.
>>71826327
>>71824557
>>71824259
>>71824115
>>71823148
Death of the creator :^)
Seriously, no one should care about Moore. He is a genius, but that doesn't mean the Watchmen movie wasn't wasted potential.
>>71827910
>Nite-Owl is a geeky loser who can literally only get off while in costume.
That was Hooded Justice.
>>71827866
das it mane
>>71824360
I relate with the comedian and where he's coming from but he's still fucked up and wrong
Why didn't Dr. Manhattan just resurrect all those killed by Ozymandias' plan before leaving?
People would still think the ayy lmaos are coming and would still unite.
>>71828041
Because the facade is better if those 3 million people are dead.
>>71828085
No it's not.
People would still have to prepare for the invasion
>>71827756
>implying
this is one of the biggest fuck up of Snyder, this scene was BEGGING to be 100% same as in the comics, in the comics it was already almost like a "moving picture"
>be able to warp reality at will
>being a mopey sad sack
>not just clicking your fingers and changing your feelings to be happy
What a dumb cunt
>>71828041
Because he really doesn't give a shit and knows mankind will be back to killing themselves soon enough no matter what. So he lets Adrian's temporary peace go on and fucks off to create his own life.
>>71828193
Perhaps he was afraid of what would happen if he went down the rabbit hole of messing with his own mind, so he sealed away his own powers to do that via a psychological inhibition.
>>71825439
I'm convinced that "dogs die from chocolate" is a meme except for super dark variety. My dog snatched all sorts of shitty milk chocolate bars and was always fine. She once ate a whole foot long toblerone at Christmas. I mean, she eventually died of cancer but I'm sure it's unrelated.
>>71828148
>No it's not
Are you joking? The impact is tenfold if people have to clean up the bodies.
>>71828201
>doesn't give a shit
Then why was he even hanging around Antarctica in the first place? Just trying to find out what the tachyons were blocking?
>>71828263
Pretty much. He wanted to see what the fuck Adrian was up to. He also cared about Laurie still and wanted to help her.
>>71827938
I'm talking about when Nite-Owl and SS have sex. In the comics he fails to perform in his house (outside of costume), but does fine in his ship while in costume. In the movie it's the hallelujah scene.
Hooded Justice is a closet homo/sado-masochist.
>>71828201
Anon he does care about humans. That's why he tried to stop Adrian in the first place. That's why he kills Rorschach. Did you even watch/read it?
>and knows mankind will be back to killing themselves soon enough no matter what
No he doesn't.
>>71828361
He performs not because of the costume but because they just got done doing some good. It's not about the suit it's about taking back what's his, and what's his is being a "hero."
why did they turn dr manhattan into a villain in DC rebirth
>>71828413
>No he doesn't.
>nothing ever ends
The whole point of that line is that Adrian's peace is only temporary and the world will be back at each other's throats in no time.
>>71828471
>>nothing ever ends
He says that as a philosophical statement. He doesn't technically specifically know what will happen in the future of mankind, he doesn't even know about Rorschach's diary.
>>71828471
How do you get all of that from the statement "nothing ever ends?"
Comedian just thinks its fuckin funny how dr Manhattan has lost his entire touch on humanity and shows him while also removing filthy ricenigger halfbreed
>>71825040
>be man
>given free will
>told if you live a good life and are a good person you will be welcomed to paradise when you shed this mortal coil
>told if you live a bad life and are a bad person you will be cast aside
>now God says, go make the choice
the whole thing with free will is the choice. are you gonna be a good person or be a complete cunt? being a cunt might get you things, might help you out, but in the long run will bite you in the ass. being a good person makes shit harder, youre playing a game on the hardest difficulty, but the reward at the end is worth it.
its like the light side and dark side. but then again this is only if you believe in God
the point of heaven is "hey you lived a good life even though you couldve done a bunch of shitty things, good for you. come be at peace for eternity. you made it, you played the game the right way"
>>71828546
Are you literally retarded? You've got the page right there and you can't figure it out?
http://www.playtime-arts.com/nothing-ends-adrian-watchmens-implicit-aftermath/
>>71822643
Edward Blake was a cunt but he was still human and believed in america with all his patriotic heart so even with his incredible cynicism he was still distraught that america even when in the wrong still won.
>>71828651
I've read that article before. Motifs and symbolism get me rock hard but let's get down to brass tacks, yeah? Treaties would be signed between the Soviet Union and the United States guaranteeing their alliance against alien beings. Legislation would be passed to creating weapons and research into combating these beings. An entire generation is brought up under Veidt's rule, an entire generation united against an alien threat. And if there is doubt looming, Veidt can simply make another.
>>71822254
>Rorschach was the real hero in this kino.
Bullshit.
Rorscach was an idiot who walked to his death. His duty to his own morals killed him.
>>71828801
>Veidt can simply make another.
It wasn't exactly easy for him to make that. He went through a lot of trouble to make the squid and then killed everyone involved. There's no way he can keep peace forever and you're naive to think that the world would cooperate with each other so easily over many years. They'll find something to fight about eventually, alien threat or not. There's a reason why Manhattan leaves behind a big mushroom cloud in Adrian's model solar system.
>>71823084
Silk Spectre was boring but she was somewhat better than the comic version which only endlessly bitched that her life was shit and worthless.
Though it does make you wonder how Louis Lane would see herself as she grew older.
>>71829024
>He went through a lot of trouble to make the squid and then killed everyone involved
And he'll just do it again. Lord knows he'd have the funding.
>and you're naive to think that the world would cooperate with each other so easily over many years
They have no reason not to with 3 million bodies and one gigantic alien body.
>They'll find something to fight about eventually, alien threat or not
That's you being pessimistic.
>There's a reason why Manhattan leaves behind a big mushroom cloud in Adrian's model solar system.
Well yes because the whole comic was building up to nukes and then we finally got our nuke.
>>71827883
Rorschach had right wing literature in his room. However, it doesn't mean he actually read them and it could have just been his cover.
His character is based off Question who was an Objectivist. However, Rorschack was not an Objectivist himself and if he were, he would have never let himself get killed out of a duty to tell everyone the truth at the end.
>>71828361
>Hooded Justice is a closet homo/sado-masochist
That's bullshit.
>>71829119
No, they certifiably specifically state Hooded Justice was closeted and Judy was his beard, and I'm pretty sure it mentions him getting his jollies beating the shit out of criminals. Been a while since I read it, but pretty sure.
>>71827756
Billy Crudup was so good in this role.
>>71829078
>And he'll just do it again. Lord knows he'd have the funding.
There's only so many writers, artists and scientists he can kidnap and kill before people start getting suspicious.
>They have no reason not to with 3 million bodies and one gigantic alien body.
Yes, they will temporarily. Which is what 'nothing ever ends' means. You can't just end war forever, it's human nature to want dominance. You're the first person I've seen who doesn't get the meaning of that line. It's blatantly obvious too and driven home with Rorschach's journal being found. Even if they publish it and no on believes it because he was crazy, it's to imply that he can create peace on a lie and it won't last.
>That's you being pessimistic.
That's me being realistic. You're living in some fantasy if you think the entire world is going to be on the same page for long. There will always be some wacko who doesn't give a fuck and wants to conquer someone else.
>>71829217
>I'm pretty sure it mentions him getting his jollies beating the shit out of criminals.
They don't. The Comidian says a remark similar to that when he's been beaten to near death by him, after he tried to rape Silk.
We know nothing of Hooded Justice. He came out of nowhere, beat some guys hardcore and was the idealized hero. The original Nite Owl figured out who he was but nothing much about his personality is revealed.
>>71829119
>That's bullshit.
Go read the Under the Hood stuff. He gets off on beating up criminals and he might have even been a pedophile(been a while since read it). They even reference it in the movie when he's beating up Blake and he's taunting him by saying 'is this what gets you hot.'
>>71829322
>They even reference it in the movie when he's beating up Blake and he's taunting him by saying 'is this what gets you hot.'
Oh please, as if what the Comedian says actually reflects who he truly is. He was taken aback by the comment and stopped. It's not proof of anything.
He was this random guy who decided to fight crime in an extreme way and that's all he know about him.
>>71829260
>There's only so many writers, artists and scientists he can kidnap and kill before people start getting suspicious.
And Ozy will probably come up with another plan.
>You can't just end war forever, it's human nature to want dominance
I'm not saying there won't be war. There just won't be a nuclear war between the United States and the Soviet Union.
>It's blatantly obvious too and driven home with Rorschach's journal being found
Yeah sure a tabloid newspaper known for their "crank" articles is gonna get a lot of traction.
>You're living in some fantasy if you think the entire world is going to be on the same page for long
Because it will. We're proof of that.
>There will always be some wacko who doesn't give a fuck and wants to conquer someone else.
And they will be in some corner of the world where most people don't give a fuck about. I.e the Middle East.
>>71829357
>In a letter from Sally Jupiter's scrapbook, Laurence Schexnayder discusses the dilemma between "Nelly" (Nelson Gardner) and "H.J." (Hooded Justice) and how Nelly was upset over another tiff with Hooded Justice He describes their actions in public as those of an old married couple and how they are getting more difficult to cover for. Nelly claims that when he calls, Hooded Justice is 'out with boys' with a lot of 'rough stuff' going on.
>The fact that Hooded Justice apparently relished rough sex with teenaged boys is what allows Blake to goad him when he stops Blake's rape of Sally. "This is what you like, huh? This is what gets you hot?" It is, and Hooded Justice realizes that if he continues the beating, he will effectively be a rapist himself, committing an assault which he finds sexually arousing.
This is all in the book, bud.
>>71829385
All we know is that he was not interested in Sally and that he around boys. That does not make him a pedo.
>The fact that Hooded Justice apparently relished rough sex with teenaged boys is what allows Blake to goad him when he stops Blake's rape of Sally. "This is what you like, huh? This is what gets you hot?" It is, and Hooded Justice realizes that if he continues the beating, he will effectively be a rapist himself, committing an assault which he finds sexually arousing.
I had suspicions that this was bullshit and not in the book, so I had to google that and found that you took that shit from the watchmen wiki.
>>71829371
I've never seen someone not understand the ending to Watchmen this badly.
>>71829385
Not to mention
>relying on the Comedian's words as a basis for Hooded Justice's personality
People project and infer too much out of nothing.
>>71825639
>No meaning save what we choose to impose
That is nihilism.
>>71829465
Friend, I understand what the ending was trying to do. The thing is I'm thinking about things realistically: The tabloid newspaper will get about as much attention as any other conspiracy theory article. Ozy is a smart man, he'll shape the world from behind the scenes and keep things in check. There will be splinter shits like Israel and Iran and Palestine, but the U.S. and the Soviet Union, just like in real life, will never be in direct conflict.
>>71829012
Died refusing to be a cuck.
So know how I know you're a cuck?
>>71829516
I'd rather be alive than die for something worthless. That's how I know he's not an Objectivist and just a shit.
>>71829560
>not knowing what objectivism is
He's a moral absolutist.
>>71829446
>>71829486
>PROBE: Who else was gay?
>SALLY:I'm not naming anybody. It was a couple of the guys, and they're both dead now. One died recently. I'm not say who it was, I'm just saying that we all knew, and we knew she wasn't the only one, and we slung her out just the same.
Captain Metropolis and Hooded Justice were in an abusive relationship.
>>71822224
Well obviously not the guy who killed a pregnant woman dead
That is some seriously pisspoor attempt at deflection, Comedian
>>71829654
Objectivist are moral absolutist as long as their lives aren't on the line. To an Objectivist, survival and your life must be the absolute moral and the standard by which you judge all other morals, including your own.
His life died when that girl died and all her had left was his morals. This is why he's not an Objectivist.
Rorschach placed his duty to his morals above his own life. This is why he gladly accepted his death. He had a gun pointed at his head and did not care. His duty to his morals stopped him from using his rationality to not die.
>>71829695
Huh interesting. You could guess that Hooded Justice was likely gay due to how he acted with Sally. The pedo shit is pushing it too far though imo.
>>71829801
Like I said, it's been a while since I've read all the Minutemen stuff. I think Before Watchmen retconned the circus strongman into a pedophile and made Hooded Justice one of his subservients or something. Fuck Before Watchmen. Nevertheless, it was heavily implied in Watchmen that Hooded Justice was gay and something of a sadist.
>>71829954
>Before Watchmen
Never read that. Never cared for it.
>Before Watchmen retconned the circus strongman into a pedophile and made Hooded Justice one of his subservients or something.
The fuck?
>Nevertheless, it was heavily implied in Watchmen that Hooded Justice was gay and something of a sadist.
I do agree that there are hints that he was gay but the sadism is still a bit weak. The feeling of sadism I got was the detailing of his first crime. Some thugs tried to rob a bank and they got recked to shit. You got this realistic feeling and that Hooded Justice broke criminals further than usual.
I'm mostly going by memory as well. Haven't read the comic in years.
>>71829714
Her pregnancy is irrelevant because she tried to murder him, he acted in selfndefence.
>>71825580
> No meaning save what we choose to impose
Existentialisme. Beside "no compromise in the face of armaggedon" doesn't seems like what a nihilist would say
>>71830226
A nihilist cannot be a moral absolutist.
Rorschach just had no care about his own life. He became the mask and nothing else.
>>71829012
NEVER COMPROMISE YOU DEGENERATE
>>71830451
except when it's convenient for you.
Oh look you don't have a prescription for that cancer medication but I don't care that vigilantism is outlawed
>>71830451
>The meaning of the term “duty” is the moral necessity to perform certain actions for no reason other than obedience to some higher authority, without regard to any personal goal, motive, desire or interest.
>>71830516
Or when some thug is about to rape a woman. Better just let him leave when he shows fear.
>>71822254
Rorschach was a psycopath who just happened to be right by accident.
People critizing this film and trying to give philosophical arguments and analyze its story structure don't even realize they are fueling one of the best /tv/ threads of the week.
Given the near mind shattering amount of shit that is written in threads every week, this stands out as actual nice television and film conversation.
If that isn't the mark of a good film, I don't know what is.
Also, the soundtrack was great.
>>71831162
This.
I've been lurking this thread and enjoying the discussion so far.
>back in 1973
>Blue dude didn't save a Vietnamese woman
>"he doesn't give a shit"
>stayed on earth and had affair and worked on peaceful energy program
Literally never argue with God, Superman or anything omnipotent. There is no way you can fix the problem of why they didn't fix the world
>>71825953
>>71825137
I don't think you can draw this conclusion because we only see from manhattan's viewpoint during a period where his future is obscured for him. What he sees post ozymandias tachyon might be completely different.
>>71831456
Manhattan may be powerful but he's just another victim of the ticking clock that is inevitability. He touches upon this SEVERAL times in the book, always correcting characters who call him a God.
Congrats, you didn't get Watchmen.
Manhattan watching this scene and not helping is a set up for the fact that he's ok with Ozymandias killing millions of people, and not stopping him there either, or outing him.
I don't get why blue dude wants to leave earth.
It is proven that the earth can still surprise him.
>>71829510
That could very well be interpreted as existentialism.
>>71831456
He's not omnipotent. He admits he couldn't stop all of Russia's nuclear arsenal, which compared to true omnipotence is a trivial act.
True omnipotence could turn all those missiles into air in their silos, as well as a trillion more, then turn russia into a huge rubber duck and make every human a peaceful hippie communist.
Manhattan was just a useful accident that tipped the scales of power for the blink of an eye. His coming and going were largely inconsequential. The closest we had to a god, in the end, turned out to be redundant in the face of the machinations (schemes?) of man.
>>71831765
He's not needed anymore. In the film he's regarded as an enemy of humanity. In the book he's rendered completely impotent in the face of a common enemy.
He's clearly had enough of Earth, so it's a great excuse to bow out and explore.
>>71831773
How someone could find "imposed meaning" in any way satisfying, I have no idea. If you have to create your own meaning then it must mean that things in and of themselves are meaningless. If you believe this than what basis do you have to say this is important or I ought to do that.
>>71828420
>assumptions
>>71832121
Reminds me of Camus' absurdism. Ever read anything by him?
>>71828625
The reason you can't get into heaven as an unrepentant sinner isn't bc god is punishing you, it's bc heaven can only exist if everyone in it is void of sin
Dr Manhattan has an excuse to be autistic, comedian was just an asshole
buncha pie in the sky liberal horseshit
meanwhile our countries are dying under degeneracy & foreigners
>>71832204
I've gathered the gist of it from readingan autistic analysis of fate/stay night claiming the main character is an absurd herobut it doesn't make much sense. What reason does someone have to rebel against the absurd reality instead of say blowing their brains out?
>Alan Moore designs the Comedian and Rorschach to be horrible right-wing fanatics that everyone would despise
>Everyone fucking loves them the most despite this
>Moore's jimmies status: rustled.
>>71832278
theyll have to puch a rock up a hill 4eva
t. camoo
>>71822254
Niteowl and Rorschach are the real heroes.
>>71832358
>theyll have to puch a rock up a hill 4eva
y?
>>71832318
Moore wrote the comic, not the movie.
>>71832388
was I talking exclusively about the movie? The characters are the characters. He designed them.
>>71832421
It's /tv/, so yes.
Snyder is the one that made them idolized to retards.
>>71832318
who would love a liberal?
>>71832318
Don't think Moore's childish enough to expect his readership to hate on fictional characters.
>>71832448
People idolized the comedian/rorschach long before the movie. Come on, dude. They've been the favorite characters since day 1
>>71828801
There were no aliens, what would happen when they eventually reach a level of technology that scans space? What happens when they figure out there's not aliens, no threat in many years, because they WILL figure it out in a maximum of 20 years of time and they will also eventually figure out what really happened.
And then it's all over, you get the gulf war,kosovo, 9/11, afghanistan etc
>>71832478
well then you'd be wrong
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rorschach_(comics)#Publication_history
>>71832318
>right wing
Please, people love the freedom to do whatever the fuck you want.
The Comedian is fun but ended up alone in his life, and started to wish for more at the end of it.
And Rorschach was Batman pushed to the extreme to the point where he gladly accepted death because he had nothing else.
Both men were cool but shit humans.
anyone here related with dr manhattan when he said that he's tired of earth?
>>71832576
He seemed really blue about it.
>>71832516
Well, I already knew he was inspired by the Question and Ditko's cuckoo philosophy. But nowhere in that section does it mention Moore specifically chose these details to piss people off.
He respects his characters too much.
>>71832609
Fuck off Carlos.
>>71832576
I love people but am tired of bullshit repeating itself. People are endlessly entertaining. I find it weird that Dr Manhattan never saw it that way.
>>71832690
DOCTOR TENNMA!DOCTOR TENNMA!DOCTOR TENMAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
>>71827866
First Silk Spectre was better
>>71832516
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rorschach_(comics)#Publication_history
>I had to look at The Fountainhead. I have to say I found Ayn Rand's philosophy laughable. It was a "white supremacist dreams of the master race," burnt in an early-20th century form.
I have no idea how you can read the Fountainhead and infer a white supremacy dream from its story.
>>71831810
>He's not omnipotent.
>>71831643
>Manhattan may be powerful but he's just another victim of the ticking clock that is inevitability. He touches upon this SEVERAL times in the book, always correcting characters who call him a God.
NHB Manhattan is actually effectively a God, he just really doesn't want to be and denies it for because of that.
The missile stopping estimate was an army prediction, not what Manhattan himself said.
Look at when he returned all the protestors to their homes simultaneously; something possible on a matter manipulation level but at such a high level that he may as well be god. He may not even understand exactly how he did it but he still did it and like the other "tricks" he learned, he will eventually gain an understanding of it beyond reflex action.
It's also worth noting that we never see from Manhattan's perspective when his view is unobscured, so we don't know for certain that the deterministic way he sees time is how he will always see time. I think his positive outlook post tachyon beam likely points to something like that.
>>71832782
Vintage is shit.
Her daughter was better in every way.
She looks more like a whore than anything else.
>>71832818
this.
>>71824360
You don't have to like a personality or relate with it to respect it.
>>71822444
getting real tired of these pussies assuming racism is "ironic" all the time.
Fuck the gooks.
>>71832212
An omnipotent god could make Earth a place without sin. There is no need to even have people be able to sin, unless you are not truly a kind god.
>being has power to intervene in human affairs
>WHY DIDN'T YOU STOP ME FROM DOING BAD THINGS ITS YOUR JOB TO MAKE MY DECISIONS INCONSEQUENTIAL. I SHOULD GET TO DO WHAT I WANT BUT YOU SHOULD HAVE TO GO AROUND CLEANING UP OUR MESSES
Fuck humans I'd leave too.
