Why is it that any time someone criticizes this film, 90% of the time it's literally made up complaints?
>>70529275
Isn't that in the nature of criticism?
>>70529275
>criticisms aren't complaints
Because you're a tryhard pseudo intellectual autistic retard that ignores all valid criticism to circlejerk over meaningless buzzwords like Kino
>>70529275
Its the type of movie you need to watch twice
Not that it's so deep but the problems seem less bad when watched again
>>70529374
>critics aren't pseudo intellectual retards
Bzzzzzzzz try again
>>70529414
>diversion tactics 101
Pathetic neckbeard fuck, at least those critics have a job.
>>70529275
The commoner's mind is a mystery.
>>70529377
Watched it recently for a 3rd time. What a steaming pile a shit it is.
>>70529275
Nothing.
You fucks have spent 3 years trying to explain why this movie isn't trash and now you are obviously tired and just outright saying that critics aren't valid.
3 years of crying about the completely deserved awful reception MoS got and you have changed nothing, maybe it's time to move on, don't you think?
And no, with move on, I don't mean move on to spend the next 3 years trying to explain why BvS wasn't trash.
>>70529374
>buzzwords and memes
Thanks for adding to the discussion
Superman fans are autistic and hate that this Superman isn't like the one they grew up with.
Same with the whole "B-batman doesn't kill!" complaint with BvS
>>70529733
This
plebs hate this movie just because of their preconceived ideas and retarded expectations. when faced to the truth, there's actually nothing to hate there, so they make shit up to avoid the cognitive disonance.
>>70529275
the first 20 minutes was good
it's shit because dubs man isn't in it
>>70529733
>why?
>nothing
>>70529374
> all valid criticism
it's not though
>>70529733
>awful reception
fresh 163
rotten 130
50/50ish isn't even remotely a awful reception.
The 195 rotten vs 19 fresh the new Fantastic 4 got is!
>and you have changed nothing
Actually we have almost no one still claims "Superman destroyed the city" like they were screaming when it first came out. Because he factually fucking didn't!
>>70533177
No you haven't.
Man of Murder will always be a meme.
>>70533177
Great, 30 more years and people might start thinking the movie wasn't trash, keep it up.
>>70533232
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZZIEkFk_NQ
Reminder it's just the same dozen people or so that stubbornly hate this movie and continually shit on it
When I first saw the movie, I hated it. But after rewatching it before BvS, I learned to like it. A 7/10
And then I watched BvS.I liked the movie. There's no doubt it's flawed to the point it's a 6.5/10 in my opinion, but the hate for it is vastly overblown because it's not "fun". I had a lot of fun personally.
Because you refuse to acknowledge the validity of any criticism of your precious "kino"
>>70533669
such as?
>>70533232
Still /tv/s favourite sueprhero flick
>>70534050
>/tv/'s favourite movie
Just more proof of how bad the movie is.
ITT scenes that make you think
>>70534075
yeah everyone knows that reddit has the best taste in movies
/r/movies said Bvs was shit and that marvel/disney is the best
>>70534448
Everyone but 10 DCfags still clinging to some hope on /tv/ thought BvS sucked.
Reddit is shit, but I don't think the opinion of blue /b/ is relevant at all.
>>70534394
>mother and baby whale
>next scene is about Martha comforting Clark
K I N O
>>70534448
What's the difference between /tv/ and Reddit?
>nuh muh X!
>man of murder!
>stop invincible meme!
>but what about when [easily explainable part of movie if you have 2 braincells]? the movie sucks!
when the movie came out 3 years ago i skipped it in theaters, pirated it and really disliked it but seeing the all the retarded complaints made me like it more honestly'
take out the smallvillee fight sceen and its a 8/10
>>70533232
>No you haven't.
>Man of Murder will always be a meme.
No it won't because killing in self defense or defense of others isn't murder.
And Clark never took his eyes off Zod when he jumped over the truck, it could have been a milk truck for all he knew. The fact that he looked back up in horror when it explodes proves it was unexpected proving he didn't just ignore it not caring if it exploded.
And the fact that Zod almost instantly is upon him punching him down justifies his not taking his eyes off him.
>>70533232
>doesnt realize its a gas truck in time
>literally looks turns around out of shock
man of murder at work
>>70534751
A meme it's a meme.
Baneposting has been a thing for 5 years already when the ''For you'' has an easy explanation.
>>70533327
But it was a billion light years from trash, it had extremely few technical flaws.
Just because the dark tone, non mary sue Superman, lack of slap stick, camp or romance doesn't appeal to the majority of people doesn't mean it wasn't a great film.
Gangster films don't appeal to everyone that doesn't mean the Godfather isn't fucking superb.
>>70533861
>no response
everytime.
I'd really like to hear some of these valid complaints that don't seem to exist.
>>70534665
What was wrong with the Smallville fight?
And don't say because he didn't take the fight out of town, he tried to drag Faora out but Non tackled him and He punched Non into the train yard which is not ideal but still better then continuing to fight in main street.
>>70533571
I'm with you. I have high hopes for what the director's cut will bring.
Possible spoilers in the suppositions to follow:
In light of the growing possibility that at least some metahumans are going to arise from aKryptonian strain within humanity, how do you think that will affect the way their abilities are handled?
>>70535273
the problem is that for some reason people expect clark to act with some cold tactical state of mind that he is not implied to have.
even in the last fight against zod, he's clearly outmatched, overpowered, and out maneuvered at every turn and only wins because zod loses his focus
what makes this movie "bad" is that it played its story mostly straight (of course barring some small details that aren't explored)
that's it
instead of taking the premise, and what happens within people are saying it's bad because it's not x or y. people have told me its shit because superman doesn't smile which not only is not true but is bullshit anyway
what got me into bvs while watching it was the realism, not in the premise that it's exceptional people exist but in how the world reacts to them and how they fit into the world
the 'other guy' makes movies that read like happy fun hang out time with at most maybe some sort of question posed and the titular good guy saying "no! bad!" which is absolutely fair game, but there's no reason to expect or hold any one else to an obligation to be like this
the whole conversation around these movies is completely hypocritical, not only because things are blown out of proportion and taken out of context and twisted around, but because comics themselves do the very things these movies are criticized for and no one ever even brings those details up in say, storytimes or other forums but they run these same plays with even more added in within
BvS is the most comic book capeshit so far, yet it gets shit on for all those same details that make it so. let alone the talk about muhh symbolism and muh allusions as if comics don't pull that all the time with no more 'subtlety' than snyder
i've had a guy tell me to my face (so to say) that the was some panel drew an association between superman and jesus was subtle even while it was the same shit snyder does ie some depiction of jesus in the background with clark/superman in the foreground
>>70536454
I know what you mean, and they even pulled that same thing in "Superman Returns," except there, the message was literally "Superman's like God listening to our prayers," which, frankly, doesn't really say anything at all interesting about his character.
>>70529275
Care to post some examples of these made of complaints?
>>70536688
Made UP complaints. Fucking touch typing.
>>70535273
Pathetic excuse to get big fight scene in [iconic location]. Superman brought the fight into town!
Just like Metropolis, there was no real reason to bring the world thingy there. At least Metropolis you can rationalize it by saying like Zod wanted to fuck up the biggest human city or something, but Smallville is hopelessly terrible
>>70536688
Not OP, but I will:
>Superman never says anybody(he does, both personally and globally)
>Superman never smiles(he does, only not when he's facing grave circumstances, which is most of the film. He smiles a lot as Clark)
>Superman doesn't try to minimize the damage(true, he doesn't, but he's kind of inexperienced facing a threat that's nearly his equal in terms of power alone)
>Pa Kent's all wrong. His death is supposed to teach Clark the lesson that he can't save everyone(how would Clark not already know this? That is, and always has been, a lesson to the audience, not for Clark himself, and it injects some pathos into his origin, also, see pic related)
And lastly,
>Too grim, too dark, Superman shouldn't be like this(because mindless escapism is all a cape movie can ever be, right?)
>>70536919
>never says anybody
*saves*
The only thing I will say about BvS is that the directors cut will raise it from a 4 to a 6, tops. It has so much wrong things in it, it would take forever to write it down and no one would read it, so I won't. Instead I'll write whats wrong with Man of Steel and take that most critscism over that passes over to BvS.
Story:
>convoluted, unnecessary plot about the Codex and Krypton being divided into "specialists", which is briefly mentioned but never truly realized in the film (i.e. jor-el fights toe to toe with zod).
>the attempt to update the character was poorly made - his main conflict is wheter or not he should help people, and its impossible to relate to that - the conflict should be, "am I up to helping people and having a 'normal' life at the same time?". Instead he restrains himself for fear. The same problem goes for Jonathan Kent. Superman as a character serves only as a hope ideal, it doesnt go far when you look at him from another angle. He is a character who should "inspire hope" and yet the movie tries to inspire fear.
>the Zod threat (and therefore all the destruction it brings) rises from Superman presence, so it would be better if the hero didnt exist at all (which is never a point in the film)
> forced romance between Superman and Lois Lane
>Jonathan Kent's fear that the world will fear Clark could be interesting but its taken too damn far at the point of making the character a raging lunatic
>it does not estabilish that the character is advert to killing
>filled with expository dialogue and one-liners
>filled with little plot-holes
Visuals, directing
>the destruction in Metropolis goes way too far; a Superman movie should not be drawing parallels to 9/11 in the moment of "heroism"
>filled with forced christ simbolism done in the most blatant, obvious ways possible
>product placement
>"snyder visual style" consists in slow-motion, high contrast and muted colors and close-ups.
>>70529275
Re watched this yesterday for the 6th time I think. It's a gloomy, boring mess that sucks it's own dick constantly despite some mediocre performances from at least 3 of the actors in it and the music is lackluster and very underwhelming/disappointing.
>>70536781
That didn't bother me. He's new enough at that point that he's still overreacting to Zod threatening his mom.
>>70536987
At this point, I'd normally provide an image that explains what the religious imagery is there to convey, but I'm tired of being called a troll and those images being "bait."
>>70529339
no.
>>70536781
It's where Superman's mom lived. That's not a "pathetic excuse", it's the reason. That's why they were there.
This is why these threads are so shit. Dumb niggers like anon here womble along complaining in ways that don't make sense. But you can't explain to them, because to have made the complaint in the first place they have to be so detached from a condition of reason and logic that it is literally impossible to communicate ideas to them.
>>70537000
Overreact in literally any other cardinal direction
>>70536987
that being said I think its a 6/10 movie, do not like this misconcieved Superman but he has little moments that saves it from completely sucking, and I also like the strong "alien invasion movie" vibe. BvS was absolute garbage tho, if the extended cut has some more character development maybe it will make it a little better, but you can only do so much with misconceived main characters, misconceived sense of heroism, a first story that adapts deconstructive stories from the 90's and tries to play it straight and the only thing the movie has going for it is a shitty christ metaphor that they take too serious and think its way smarter than it actually is.
>>70537113
>Superman tackling Zod through miles of farmland into Smallville
>>70537124
You ever read an old comic called "Star Brand."
>>70537085
thats the point, everyone knows what its trying to convey and its not smart, its not a big deal and it certainly doesnt require an "image" to explain it
>>70537224
What's it conveying, then?
>>70536987
>Instead he restrains himself for fear. The same problem goes for Jonathan Kent.
Every thread. FLAWED CHARACTERS DO NOT INDICATE BAD WRITING. "Should be" DOES NOT APPLY because THE FILM IS ITS OWN STORY. It's not impossible to relate to Clark in MoS because fundamentally his issue is about making decisions for himself rather than letting his life be dictated by others. That's the thematic exploration of the film, not whether or not he should save people, but that he should make up his own mind on whether to save people or not rather than simply doing what was expected of him.
>(which is never a point in the film)
But it fucking is or else how
I mean what the fuck anon you just pointed out how it was a point in the film, did you want a freeze frame with a paragraph explaining what was happening every 10 minutes
>it does not estabilish that the character is advert to killing
What about his fucking SCREAM OF HORROR AT KILLING
FUCK YOU ANON
YOU ARE SUCH A FUCKING FAGGOT
>SHOULD
>SHOULD
>SHOULD
CHRIST ALMIGHT JUST END YOUR FUCKING LIFE
>>70537278
basically working on two levels, the burden of being a supposedely godly persona but with a human mentality and the nietzschian complex of superman. Thats subtext to almost every superhero story, the problem is that the movie spits this shit out in dialogue
>>70537396
What if I were to tell you that it's there to indicate when the people around Clark are thinking of him as a god, and that it's not exclusively Christian imagery?
>>70537368
it is bad writing when the movie is trying to make conflict be relatable and it isnt, anon. Sorry. About you little bitch attack about the scream, thats exactly the point, it comes and it goes with a scream instead of working the theme and the decision not to kill throughout the movie.
>>70537085
The thing is nobody gives a shit that some shot in the movie has a religious reference to it.
People go watch a Batman vs Superman movie to get Batman vs Superman.
Why would anyone come to this movies to see random religious references?
Sure, it's pretty, but nobody cares, nobody asked for it and it doesn't add as much as just making a less convoluted plot.
>>70529374
/thread
>>70537498
Another anon here, but how do you assume the overwhelming majority of people you pass on the street feel about murder?
>>70537469
>and that it's not exclusively Christian imagery?
So?
>>70536919
Thanks for actually replying with some examples. I haven't seen the movie in a while so I can't remember enough to refute/discuss specifics.
I think Superman himself was fine, but the overall tone was sort of nolanesque which I found not appropriate for superman.
>>70529580
I want those posters
>>70529580
Why was teen Clark reading Plato? I mean kids that age normally just fuck around
>>70537557
that it would be fine in the context the movie presented it, even thought it was poorly done. A more skilled writer would make the hero solve the problem dealing with the villain in a creative way; you make the hero kill to make a point, and the movie doesnt do that - and in BvS the heroes continue to kill with no problem.
>>70536781
>Superman brought the fight into town!
By accident he genuinely was looked down at Zod's face while punching him not where they were flying towards.
>Just like Metropolis, there was no real reason to bring the world thingy there
The black zero was already above it, remember it was visible to Lois in the sky when Zod sent out the warning.
The World Engine itself went to the indian ocean opposite it.
>>70537498
>when the movie is trying to make conflict be relatable and it isnt
I found it relatable. It's about father figures and changing attitudes to their authority, who can't relate to that.
>>70529275
>Be Kryptonian in MOS.
>Apparently able to breathe in fucking space.
>Give a shit about Earth's atmosphere.
OP here
>mfw not a single credible criticism has been posted about this movie yet
feels good
MoS and BvS are just the result of Snyder trying to one-up the seriousness of Nolan.
Thing is, that's all Nolan had, seriousness, it wasn't dark and gritty, and that's what people don't like because I wonder who wants to see sad, dark and gloomy stories about superheroes.
>>70537765
It's pretty weird.
>>70536987
>>the destruction in Metropolis goes way too far; a Superman movie should not be drawing parallels to 9/11 in the moment of "heroism"
Yes it should if this is a darker world around Superman that he has to actual strive and struggle thru to accomplish things instead of it just coming easy and effortlessly to him.
>>70537744
>be hell bend on revenge and filled with hatred
>people question your motives outside of that mindset
>>70537527
Perry White's question to Lois:
"Do you know how people would react if they knew someone like this was out there?"
Pete Ross's mom after the bus rescue:
"It was an act of GOD, Jonathan." (Jonathan immediately goes to find Clark and set him straight about that)
The imagery's there to convey how people react when confronted with proof that not only does extraterrestrial intelligence exist, it is superior to us in almost every conceivable way - they try to make a god out of it.
On another level entirely, it's a visual metaphor for what being Superman is: being a guy trying to be a hero when your nature(alien) and your environment(Earth) conspire to present you as a god.
If they'd really wanted to be pretentious and transparent about that, they could have made him wear a hat with "GOD" embossed across the front. Instead, they gave us some beautiful visuals.
>>70537765
Bad bait. Not even OP.
>>70536987
You have some points but I disagree with some of the things you say.
>Jonathan Kent's fear that the world will fear Clark could be interesting but its taken too damn far at the point of making the character a raging lunatic
We've seen the things Clark is capable of. He could literally destroy the planet if he felt like it. Kent has every right to believe in what he does. Not only does he love his son but he doesn't want the world to corrupt him like Batman. Kent doesn't want Clark to get to a point where he's branding people with heat rays.
>it does not estabilish that the character is advert to killing
He did not have a choice. It was either a family of innocents or Zod. Zod made it clear he was not stopping and he had to be put down. Afterwards, Clark screams in agony over killing his kin. It's not something he ever wanted to do but it happened. This is Kent's fear coming into play.
>the destruction in Metropolis goes way too far
It gives a sense of scale to Superman. It was beyond perfect because this isn't boy wonder running around in underwear.
>product placement
This is unavoidable.
>>70537802
you do realize Dick Donner's Superman was released during a shit time, right
>>70537686
>you make the hero kill to make a point
Or you do it just because its emotionally powerful and adds consequence to this battle.
>>70537527
>People go watch a Batman vs Superman movie to get Batman vs Superman.
Then the problem is the audience, not the film.
>>70537825
1:
Yeah, but letting children die? I mean, what the fuck. What a hero.
2:
I dont have a problem with him killing zod, I have a problem with him screaming afterwards and then brushing it off without the movie stabilishing he despises killing people.
3:
I think thats a matter of opinion but it gets way dark and way brutal, making the movie shift in tone aggresively
4:
its really fucking excessive
>>70537639
Because Jonathan thought it might be a good idea to introduce some high-minded discussion about society and civic responsibility into the mind of the invincible alien that happened to be his kid.
>>70537841
Exactly why it was bright and uplifting, you got your 5 happy Superman movies.
If Batman can have Adam West vs Killing Joke differences in tone, so can Superman.
>>70537808
Thing is, I don't give a fuck about religious imaginery.
Seriously, who cares?
Post all the examples of religious symbolism you can, I just don't care.
I want DC to make their own cinematic franchise, to see those heroes and their villains on the big screen.
I don't care even the slightest about what Zack is trying to do or what he has done.
You want to put religious imaginery?
Do it, as much as you want, just as long as you ensure the rest of the movie is fine.
>>70537949
A problem?
Is it a problem that people want to see a movie of Batman vs Superman when the movie is called Batman vs Superman?
Who the hell comes watch a superhero movie to watch recreations of random religious symbolism?
>>70538014
The rest of the movie is fine, it's probably the most entertaining superhero movie in terms of actual superhero shit
>>70538014
>Who the hell comes watch a superhero movie to watch recreations of random religious symbolism?
People who want a little more out of a film than flashing lights and colours.
This is supposed to be a serious movie that contains one scene where a crew gets into a bunch of dicks and fly's off into the sky. They don't even bother making it a cheeky scene where it's only vaguely a dick, it's a full on dick. This scene was engineered by the CGI team, approved by the director, and made it through editing with nobody saying "why are they flying away in giant dicks"
>>70537792
The Joker sewed a cell-phone bomb into a schizophrenic's body cavity and told him the "pretty colors would make the voices go away."
That's not exactly sunshine and puppy dogs.
>>70537967
>Yeah, but letting children die? I mean, what the fuck. What a hero.
But that was the entire point HE DIDN'T let them die and thought the notion was bullshit.
And Pa wasn't seriously suggesting it, he spit "mabye" out in desperation to get his point across.
If Clark and his Alien heritage is revealed to the world society could throw a shit fit that could cost thousands of lives, Genocides have happened over far smaller things.
The point of Pa's argument was to see the big fucking picture because their is far more lives at stake then the ones Clark saved on the bus.
>>70538014
>Who the hell comes watch a superhero movie to watch recreations of random religious symbolism?
No one. Hence why the symbolism takes up all of 2 scenes/moments in mos that make up no more then 2 of its 140 fucking minutes you exaggerative fuckers!
>>70538056
>People who want a little more out of a film than flashing lights and colours.
And this is what you get.
Random, pointless religious symbolism.
A movie about superheroes that focuses on making references to another, completely unrelated story by forcing mirroring between the two of them.
People like it when these movies are something more, like The Dark Knight, not when they just replace it with something absolutely no one cares about.
>>70538071
Someone will argue these are not dicks.
>>70538178
>No one. Hence why the symbolism takes up all of 2 scenes/moments in mos that make up no more then 2 of its 140 fucking minutes you exaggerative fuckers!
Which is funny because symbolism is all people talk about.
Hell, this one >>70538056 said that the 2 scenes of symbolism makes the movie be something more than flashing lights and colors.
>>70537686
>and in BvS the heroes continue to kill with no problem.
As a point of fact, the only "hero" killing people in BvS is the Batman, and he's presented as being over the line in doing so. The only reason he didn't die within milliseconds of the showdown starting was Clark's extreme reluctance to take the easy way out.
>>70529275
Why are people so butthurt over DC movies?
So what if people didn't like it, be less insecure and get on with your life. If you liked the movie no one can take that away from you. You're getting more of the same from the new Justice League movie anyway, you should be happy.
>>70529275
I love how much MoS acts as a pleb filter. The only """people""" who don't regard this as a near perfect superhero film belong back on that other site.
>>70538285
>be less insecure
Funny because it's DCfags the ones who spent 3 years trying to explain to everyone in this board why the movie isn't trash.
>>70538199
>Random, pointless
It's really not though.
>>70538320
>I love how much MoS acts as a pleb filter
You mean what DCfags consider plebs, AKA whoever doesn't praise their shitty capeshit.
>>70538223
>Someone will argue these are not dicks.
Maybe the scariest fact of all.
>>70538244
>Which is funny because symbolism is all people talk about.
Which proves how fucking retarded the haters of the film are if they think 2 microscopic aspects of the film are major flaws.
>>70538357
I don't really care.
Seriously, not me, not the vast majority, nobody cares that it's mirroring religious moments.
Nobody cares that Superman is being a reflection of Jesus.
Nobody cares that X scene is a reference to some religious painting.
>>70538438
Is even more retarded because the ones defending it say those 2 microscopic aspects of the film are what makes this ''high art''.
>>70538365
Opinion invalidated. You have to go back.
>>70538450
This is where the pleb stops thinking.
The Patrician seeks. Looks for answers. Wants to understand the why.
The Pleb points out something and says "nobody cares"
The Patrician claims "I care and seek to understand"
>>70538450
And so - you are the problem, the audience is the problem, because they don't give a shit about movies being more than cool explosions and AC/DC.
>>70538071
>>70538223
Here's what I'll argue - it's overt sexual imagery in an origin story with allusions to birth throughout it, up to and including the intro of Clark's birth and the final scene with Zod are mirrored in terms of editing, right up to the overlapping screams of Superman and baby Kal-El at the beginning.
Imagine that - an overt use of imagery to wake the audience up to the more subtle uses of it throughout the rest of the film - a film about the birth of Superman.
>>70538496
It's my 2nd favorite movie and its not even remotely high art in my book. Don't lump all its fans together.
>>70538548
>The Patrician claims "I care and seek to understand"
The only thing you do is find whatever reference X scene is to, and then claim it's deep, when that's all there is to it.
Empty symbolism for the sake of having symbolism.
>>70538632
>find whatever reference X scene is to, and then claim it's deep
Explorations of the symbolism are literally present in this thread.
>>70538552
Yes anon, you are right, it's the rest of the planet who's wrong.
You are the only one who has been illuminated by the genius of random religious references in superhero flicks.
>>70537804
>be hell bend sic on revenge for some contrived reason
>decide to take it out on some random bystander planet
>plan to colonize planet in 2 steps
>step 1: destroying literally all living organisms on the planet, effectively turning it into Mars
>step 2: use this random Kryptonian's secret DNA blood to start a breeding program for Kryptonian humanoids to take over a dead planet, spending generations just cleaning up the 7+ billion human corpses and rebuilding infastructure and resources that they could have had the entire time if they didn't LITERALLY DESTROY ALL LIFE ON THE PLANET.
Did that DNA codex include the genetic information for literally every living species on Krypton? How many millions of species of Kyrptonian bugs and bacteria and shit are stored in Superman's balls? Because if they're not, Zod's plan was fucking stupid.
And being an emotional asshole doesn't make having an incoherent, belligerent, self-defeating master plan for no reason. That doesn't make the movie good. It just kills the audience's ability to give a shit about what is happening.
>>70538632
The meaning of any christian symbolism found in MoS and BvS has been addressed countless times on /tv/
It's not there just for the sake of being there.
>>70538548
Then read an actual book you colossal faggot. People go to bvs to see a proper adaptation of the SOURCE material which are fucking comic books, not works of deep art.
Therefore, trying to raise the movies into works of deep art is a fucking fallacy. It'd be like Gordan Ramsey making a delicious dish out of dogshit and then complaining that people can't appreciate his masterful dish because the main ingredient is expertly prepared feces.
No thanks I'll take my low quality mcdonalds (marvel) over expertly crafted feces (dc).
>>70538450
>Nobody cares that Superman is being a reflection of Jesus.
The point isn't that he's Jesus, the point is that he's not a god at all. If you want an example of shitty religious symbolism in a film, go back and watch "Superman Returns," where the implication is literally nothing beyond "Superman = Space Jesus."
It's on the nose, it's ham-fisted, and it says nothing at all interesting about the character.
Ant-Man had more depth than this ham-fisted garbage
>>70538619
this
>>70538496
It's not so much that we're claiming it's high art as it is we're saying that its presence doesn't make it shit, especially once you understand what it's actually there for.
>>70538328
That's what I mean.
>>70538665
>Explorations of the symbolism
AKA more pointless mirroring.
This isn't what people want, this isn't what anyone wanted.
People expected stories about superheroes, and what we get is just religious mirroring.
That's why people hated this, because nobody cares about religious references, and because it doesn't give satisfying superhero movies.
>>70538855
what source material exactly?
Bob Kane's Batman?
Frank Miller's Batman?
Grant Morrison's Batman?
Scott Snyder's Batman?
Jeph Loeb's Batman?
And who's Superman?
Richard Donner?
Geoff Johns?
Grant Morrison?
Dan Jurgens?
Kurt Busiek?
etc
These characters are colors for creators to paint on a canvas their own way. No director is obligated to satisfy whatever you perceive as "the source material"
>>70538723
Even if it didn't, Zod's ship and the scout ship both contained vast amounts of data on Krypton, much, if not all. of which was intercepted by the military in broadcasts between the two ships while they exchanged and updated data.
>>70529374
This
>>70529275
Perfect movie flawed audience
only people that would disagree are marvelfag numales
>>70539006
When people say that, they mean wikipedia
>>70539109
The piss christ reference is one of the most dynamic and engaging pieces of symbolism ever placed in a major film
Now that haters have been addressed with the bare minimum of any of those offensive "bait" images, I have a question for the fans:
Are metahumans going to haveKryptonian heritage?
>>70538865
Nigger the God shit isn't just symbolism. Multiple characters are shown apparently being incapable of understanding that this superpowered space alien isn't literally God. Lex hates Superman because he is mad at God because God didn't protect him from his shitty dad.
>The point isn't that he's Jesus, the point is that he's not a god at all.
That's funny, since even after he fucking dies the movie does renaissance catholic imagery as they stand around his body. Nobody is seeing this shit except for the audience, and the imagery is EXPLICITLY drawing parallels with religious imagery about the death of jesus. This is the movie, to the audience, saying that Superman is Jesus.
>>70539279
>Implying the populace in these movies isn't the audience.
Niglet, thes movies are literal meta commentaries on the pleb audience. Any image intended as an image directed to the common man is also directed at the audience for they are one and the same
>>70539340
So, instead of getting a DC cinematic universe, we get a meta commentarie nobody asked for?
How about they kick Snyder so we can have some superhero movies?
>>70539006
It's not what I perceive personally, it's how the mainstream perceives it. Nobody wants a fucking religous melodrama in their cape movies. If the studio wants to make that, then they can make an actual movie about angels and gods and shit, not project THEIR retarded ideas onto material that is not appropriate for it.
Would you want religous overtones projected onto a live action dora the explorer movie, and then label the people who hated it as plebs?
>>70539176
its true
None of these plebs seem to understand the amazing satanic/pagan undertones of Luthors scenes.
Most obviously he constantly talks about biblical events as if they are happening right now. Gods/Demons he speaks that as if they are interchangeable. He even calls Supermans mom a Witch. His monologue there was great.
The part I first realized this was his blood ritual with Zods body. The scene was shown as some super space tech that changes zod but it was truly a horrific ritual basically taking ones soul.
He literally does a sci fi style Séance in the deleted scene communinicating with a demon like general from apocolpyes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-MUzvASr8s
I love this mess of a movie. It’s Faustian in so many ways and the demonic imagery reminds me of Childhood's End a wonderful novel if you don't know of it. The aliens in it are depicted as what western society views Devils, they even use a Ouija board to communicate. Creepy great stuff.
>>70539391
You sound like a Rotten Tomatoes apporved critic
"Wheres the quips?"
>>70539279
>That's funny, since even after he fucking dies the movie does renaissance catholic imagery as they stand around his body. Nobody is seeing this shit except for the audience, and the imagery is EXPLICITLY drawing parallels with religious imagery about the death of jesus. This is the movie, to the audience, saying that Superman is Jesus.
With Batman and Wonder Woman present, specifically Batman, who gives every indication of falling into the role of Superman's "Paul the Apostle."
I recognize your images already by the way. You do realize that avatarfagging is discouraged, do you not?
>>70539425
No no, leave the lighthearted tone to Marvel.
Kick the dark, depression and grittyness of the DCEU and bring back the Nolan seriousness to it.
Look at TDK and X-Men Days of Future Past and base your tone on those movies and you are golden.
>>70537639
autism
>>70539432
>With Batman and Wonder Woman present, specifically Batman, who gives every indication of falling into the role of Superman's "Paul the Apostle."
So the movie is calling Batman Paul the Apostle and isn't calling Superman Jesus. Gotcha.
>I recognize your images already by the way.
neat.
>You do realize that avatarfagging is discouraged, do you not?
What have you been here like a month? When can you legally access this site?
>>70539633
>So the movie is calling Batman Paul the Apostle
A parallel is a parallel.
>Gotcha
No, you really don't.
>neat.
I thought so, too.
>What have you been here like a month?
Longer than you. By far.
>When can you legally access this site?
When can you start debating like a big boy?
Want to tell me how Superman's
LITERALLY
ALWAYS
BEEN
JESUS
again, you derailing, juvenile "zero sum fuck?"
>>70539811
>A parallel is a parallel.
Yeah. And Batman is getting Paul The Apostled because Superman is jesus. The fuck are you talking about?
>No, you really don't.
Nigger you'll never understand the movie as well as I do.
>Longer than you. By far.
>not having been here so long that you're embarrassed about it
>>70529475
>they have a job
how pathetic are you when you're impressed with the idea of someone working?
>>70539811
>again, you derailing, juvenile "zero sum fuck?"
Ahh I have a stalker.
Is it being based on picture books meant for children a made up complaint?
I'd rather pay to see a movie about actual jesus operating in modern times. I will not pay to watch a movie about fake jesus operating in modern times.
Warner needs to separate the two ideas and make separate movies. If I want a religious experience I will watch a religious themed movie. I will not be duped into such while watching capeshit.
>>70540052
>jesus operating in modern times
>>70538014
>being such a fedora that even a brief visual reference to jesus sends you into a total sperg out
REEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>>70531935
I honestly thought the first hour and a half were great but it really went to shit after that.
>>70540158
Not complaining that it's about Jesus, just that it's pointless and it's not a substitute for good storytelling.
>>70540345
I don't think anyone is saying that.
>>70540023
Don't flatter yourself. You have an anon on the opposite side of the argument with a fantastic memory, an eye for recognizing textual idiosyncrasies, and no further patience for your disingenuous bait.
I take that back. Be flattered. I doubt you have much else going on in your life to feel good about, so yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus.
>>70540125
I am grinning like an idiot. That image is not what I meant by "operating" but man that's perfect. I guess if Jesus was operating then that's what it'd look like lol.
Bit I meant like, actual Jesus being born in modern day, walking the earth performing miracles and shit. You'd have people both happy that he's here but pissed off he didn't come sooner to help the people who haver suffered since he first left.
Then you could have your statues with false god on them be actually meaningful, not wasted on fucking superman. So while someone is making that movie, another group can just make an actual superman movie.
I actually haven't read a single illegitimate complaint
>>70539419
wtf i love bvs now
bravo
>>70540411
>You have an anon on the opposite side of the argument with a fantastic memory, an eye for recognizing textual idiosyncrasies
You could just say autism friend.
>I take that back. Be flattered.
I'm pretty ambivalent about the whole thing tbphwyf
>I doubt you have much else going on in your life to feel good about
Remember when I was talking about a movie? And I'm pretty enthused about my life situation if we're being honest with each other. I'm relatively rich and I start doing prepro shit in a few days for a feature I'm working on for most of the summer. I do relatively cool work in the only industry I'm comfortable in, which pays for me to obsessively study movies and shitpost in my off-time. I'm drunk and stoned and smell like work and some autistic teenager is mad at me over BvS shitposting from like a month ago. This shit is therapy.
>>70541124
Neat.
>>70541124
Remember when I told you about losing my dad back in December of 1993 and you sperged out to a rather impressive degree and refused to believe for one second I was being truthful?
Those were good times.
>>70529275
The downright mental rage over this, beyond anything ever seen before over comics and comic book movies, is proof of shilling and psy-ops going on online.
pls post the dc fanboy wojak i need it for meme making purposes
>>70541887
>Remember when I told you about losing my dad back in December of 1993
I really don't think that I do. Exactly how "fantastic" is your memory again?
>and refused to believe for one second I was being truthful?
I mean, there's more than one person on here that got into arguing with belligerent BvS defensemen. I don't really give a shit enough about your long dead dad to imagine I would have sperged out about you making it up. Peoples dads die. My dad died. It's what they do. Do you just think that everyone you've ever argued with is one person? Do you also think the mailman is spying on you?
>>70529275
Let's see your Criticism kung fu in this situation Op
For the statement that poor side character decisions were made
without using the statement that they needed to die for the plot.
Why did characters like
Professor Emil Hamilton
CIA agent James Olsen
and Mercy Graves
DIE.
Yet original characters like jenny "usless and not related" Olsen live.
What made snyder or anywriter that this would be a good idea.
>>70542623
literally not a valid criticism
attributing importance to a character because they did or are one thing in another incarnation or medium vs how they are presented in this current one.
again, literally a worthless and non existent criticism.
>>70542623
Why wouldn't they?
I'm going to give you a pass on Mercy Graves not even being in MoS because you're clearly disadvantaged in some way.
>>70542271
Your grammar's coming to pieces, friend.
>>70542623
>CIA agent James Olsen
Well while I can't speak for the rest, CIA cover identity "James Olsen's" death seemed to be conveying a very specific message:All fucking fanboys must fucking hang.
>>70543022
>introduce well-known comic fan character Jimmy Olsen, omgreveal that he's actually a CIA agent. Then have him get shot in the face.
>Do all of this in one scene.
>Do it in the first scene in the Superman/Lois story
>Don't bother making it clear in the movie that it actually was Jimmy.
>Replace him with a pointless character named JENNY because progressivism.
This is not good filmmaking. It is not good storytelling. Aside from the fact that they nerfed a popular character in the first scene, and aside from the fact that they did that because they had replaced him with some chick, the sequence itself was extremely poorly done, and the thought behind it was misguided and stupid. They could have made any movie. And they made this. Unnamed Jimmy Olsen secretly being a CIA spy and getting killed in the first scene, a scene it which Superman is only shown intervening when Lois is in danger. Superman let Jimmy Olsen die.
>>70543388
This is all still boiling down to "not uh superman". Which is not a film critique.
>>70543197
>person criticizes muh movie, so I 4plebs his shitpics to attack him personally instead of actually addressing the criticism of the film
>when he responds to me personally in a way that makes me uncomfortable, I start having flashbacks about conversations with different people
>when called out for being a likely schizotypal obsessive weirdo, I'll criticize his grammar.
>>70533232
I LOVE that scene. you've got to be a souless machine to not crack a smile at the pyrotechnics show.
Will never understand why these FUN movies are qualified by some people as "gloom" or "pretentious"
>>70542271
If you weren't all the same person, why do you use the same name?
Checkmate atheists.
>>70543388
Supes showed up after the gunshots. He was hovering the area.
Also, I think maybe they intend to portray super-hearing as realistically as possible. In other words, if it's close enough to be "loud" for him, odds are it's close enough for him to respond to, otherwise, it's outside his response radius.
To put that another way, if he's standing on the east coast and can faintly hear a gunshot from the west coast, he knows that it's already far too late for him to intervene.
How the extended scenes play out should shed more light on that.
>>70543465
It kinda is when the source material is used to defend/explain many of the movie's idiosyncrasies.
>>70543700
What? When?
>>70543465
>This is all still boiling down to "not uh superman".
No it fucking isn't. The problem isn't that he took shit in a weird, misguided direction. It's that he didn't do it well. It wasn't well executed.
If you want to make a movie that is going to inherently annoy comic fans by sabotaging the characters and annoy movie critics with stupid, belligerent, self-important "better than thou" presentation and imagery, IT BETTER BE A GOOD GODDAMN MOVIE. The Lois Lane subplot goes nowhere. Theres the white portuguese plothole, which is essentially the inciting action of the movie. There's the Lex knows the bat signal is batman challenging Superman to a fight but kidnaps Superman's family for no reason plothole. There's the pointlessness of the convoy attack sequence, compounded by the batmanslaughter. There's the complete lack of narrative motivation for Lex blowing up congress. He gets nothing he didn't already have. There's basically everything about Doomsday's presentation. There's the weird decision to have the JLA reveal happen through Wonder Woman's POV, instead of protagonist batman. There's the Flash tease ruining the narrative relevance of the Knightmare.
"Not muh superman" is maybe in the top 20 list about BvS fuckery.
>Which is not a film critique.
It is when it's a Superman film critique.
>>70543700
it isn't. is a nice movie in its own.
could this be the origin of the radicalized opinions? comicfags vs movie fans?
>>70543839
Look at the OP, mate. Do you see "BvS" or "Batman vs. Superman" written anywhere? This is a Man of Steel thread, kindly quit shitting it up with your retardation.
.
>>70543616
>Supes showed up after the gunshots. He was hovering the area.
Oh so he was there, in Africa. Hovering in Africa. On standby in Africa. Only there because Lois was in Africa. His attention was singularly focused on the Lois Africa situation. But he didn't bother responding until after Jimmy gets shot in the face.
He's either incompetent or a sociopath if he was in Africa. And if he was in Metropolis and heard that Lois was in trouble, then basically everything he does (and doesn't do) doesn't make sense. If he could hear a kerfuffle across the globe, but couldn't hear his mom tied up with a gang of thugs with lit flame throwers guarding her a few blocks away?
There's no version of this story where Superman isn't a stupid piece of shit.
>>70543971
Look at the conversation thread mate. We're 180 comments in and this specific conversation in the thread has become about BvS.
>This is a Man of Steel thread, kindly quit shitting it up with your retardation.
Literally kill yourself. You'll never have a thread about the bad movie from a few years ago without the conversation involving the bad sequel to that bad movie.
>>70544231
>Alien threads must degenerate into AvP threads
>>70544231
But it's sprung from a comment directly referencing the OP, which is specifically limited to Man of Steel. It's ascribing flaws in BvS to MoS.
>>70529275
Want to know why this movie sucked?
Every single character was stupid.
Batman fears Superman because he is an pessimist and a realist. Where was he shown to be anything other than a mad dog, spurred on and led by the nose (by an equally mad lex). The times he isn't being made a fool of in front of the audience, he's shown being a brutal and skulking thug or having the depth of his madness reinforced.
Superman is supposed to be the strongest, but bound by his dedication to humanity, hope, and his adherence to his new home's rules. He embodies the idea that even though he could rule the world, he is instead governed by the laws made to protect the weakest of the weak. Where was superman shown to have a dedication to humanity? Where was he shown to have any reverence for giving people hope, and why was he made so dark and gritty? More screen time is spent showing humanity's dedication to HIM. More screen time is given to him looking dour, and often being senselessly violent and lacking in the easy moral awareness that his comic/cartoon counterparts display at every turn.
I mean FUCK. The whole point of BvS should be to contrast perhaps the darkest hero with the brightest. Instead BvS portrays Batman little better than a thug, and Superman as a shallow and feckless man given unimaginable powers yet without the wit to make use of them, and without the self control to be anything other than a manbaby.
Meanwhile Lex is the worst of all of the three. His plan is complicated and shallow, depending more on luck than anything else (or perhaps we could call it the hand of a writer and director, perhaps the very god he so hates made manifest in the pen that wrote his script). The reasons we're given for Lex's motivations are so far fetched it's a wonder how the man even functions in his day to day life.
>>70544426
Christ, another one.
>>70544481
i don't think they even read anything. just copy and paste.
Realize he'd only been "Superman" for a few fucking hours when all this shit goes down. In a very short span of time (like a few days at most) he:
- meets his natural born Father (his consciousness at least)
- learns about his past and his people and home planet
- learns about Zod and some of his past (up to being sent to the Phantom Zone)
- gets a suit
- learns to fly
- goes home again after a decade or more of being away
- gets tracked down by a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist
- gets tracked down by Zod and his cohorts
- turns himself in to the military even in spite of not knowing if he can fully trust humans to know he exists
- gets turned over by those same humans to Zod who he damned sure knows he can't trust
- has his first true off-world experience in Zod's ship
- realizes he's got a weakness he never knew about before
- saves Lois from certain death a first time
- saves his Mom from Zod himself
- gets in his first real fight at 33+ years old
- hits a girl for the first time (and many more times I might add)
- gets shot by those pesky humans again even in spite of trying to save them
- has a freight train locomotive thrown at him
- ends up working with those same humans that were just trying to destroy him
- destroys a bygone relic of Krypton (the World Engine) in order to save those pesky humans again
- flies through outer space several times (getting a shitload of frequent flier miles, surely)
- destroys the very thing that could help him bring back the Kryptonian race (the Genesis Chamber in the scout ship)
- saves Lois when she's falling (again)
- loses the one House of El command key to the Phantom Zone losing any chance of learning more about his home planet or his Father or any Kryptonian archive of learning (that we know of)
- gets tossed through a dozen or so buildings
- takes out a satellite in orbit
- kills the last remaining Kryptonian aside from himself (that he's aware of)
- end result: saves the world
Pretty good first day I'd say.
>>70544426
BvS was pretty crap but
>waaah, muh comic stories should be about black and white morality, understanding basic character complexities like ambiguous morality makes my brain hurt
is just retarded.
>>70544426
Well put. It really baffles me how one of the largest film studios on the planet could so thoroughly miss the point of two of the most popular and enduring figures of popular culture.
>>70544663
>miss the point
thanks for further proving OP's statement
>>70544231
>Literally kill yourself.
>>70544112
Why does simply being in the vicinity of Nairomi indicate he's on standby? There's not other shit he can be doing in the area, any area for that matter? Personally, I think that's part of how Lex figured out who he was in the first place - news reports of "super" activity coupled with stories Lois is filing across the AP. The fact that the Kryptonians specifically chose Smallville, Kansas as a touchdown spot doesn't exactly hurt either,
>>70545062
>Why does simply being in the vicinity of Nairomi indicate he's on standby?
Oh yeah because Snyder Superman is ever shown just chilling in Africa for no fucking reason. You're grasping so desperately at straws if you're trying to say that, with literally zero actual exposition, Superman JUST HAPPENED to be in some shit dump in Africa TOTALLY UNRELATED to the fact that his girlfriend was there. Adding that option to the list doesn't make that shit any less retarded.
>Personally, I think that's part of how Lex figured out who he was in the first place
Personally, that's probably because Lex literally said thats how he found out.
Got a question for anyone who's up to speed on current depictions of Superman in the comics:
Can he pull the same sort of super-speed shenanigans that the Flash can, or is he way more limited?
I've been having these cool ideas about how speed might be different for Kryptonians than it is for guys like the Flash.
>>70544354
MoS threads are AvP threads.
>>70529275
Why is he so perfect bros?
>>70545769
Not what I was saying. Not even remotely.
So in your job, do they translate instructions verbally or do they often have to fall back on a reliance on pictures?
>>70544481
>Why nobody make good criticism
>good criticism
>LOL NOT READING
Maybe its because everything that could have been said was said three years ago and nobody other than people irrationally defending a bad movie in their mind cares anymore
mos did nothing wrong as a movie
every 'criticism' in this thread should be relabeled as entitlement.
>>70545861
>every 'criticism' in this thread should be relabeled as entitlement.
raise of hands
how many of you learned the word dour during april
>>70545984
I think I learned it from a fantasy novel somewhere around 1984.
>>70545850
>Not what I was saying. Not even remotely.
k.
>So in your job, do they translate instructions verbally or do they often have to fall back on a reliance on pictures?
4/10 bantz. There aren't any self-important contrarian teenagers at my job.
>>70546036
>4/10 bantz
2/10 bantz. 0/10 reading comprehension.
Thank gods yours is a largely visual field, sir.
>>70542623
there's no criticism here
you damn well know what actions and events led to the deaths of these individuals
you can go into any movie, any story ever, and say why did this person die? why did this person live? that shouldn't have happened, the writer shouldn't have written it so certain characters lives or dies
its incredible that people take these asinine statements seriously
>>70546170
>Thank gods yours is a largely visual field, sir.
>sir.
I mean. I don't really need to bother huh? You're just repeating bits I already did and talking like its 2007 and you're on reddit.
I didn't like the ham-fisted love scene.
>>70543839
>belligerent, self-important "better than thou" presentation and imagery,
none of this is in the movie
*You* are projecting that onto the movie
none of what you listed is inherently bad. might as well make a list of any aspects of any movie
believe it or not, despite the memeposters, the posters who are responsible for or otherwise infuenced the pasta made their posts as casual conversations about connecting the dots in the movie.
>>70546314
>I don't really need to bother huh?
No, you really don't, yet you insist.
>You're just repeating bits I already did
Because you're just oh-so original, right?
>talking like its 2007
And partying like it's 1999. Who gives a fuck?
>you're on reddit.
I remember seeing you spilling your asspain about how much more difficult it is to have an argument here than reddit in a 4plebs link. You're probably a lot more familiar with it than I.
>>70537792
>"Batman could like, get raped in prison."
>-Snyder
>>70544426
batman is fucked up to his core. that's something that's been explored but usually gets glossed over. the same singlemindedness that gives him strength can be his downfall
superman is shown to be dedicated to humanity by the montage, the conversations people have about him, his reaction to the things people says, the fact that he showed up at the hearing, that he left when he began to wonder if his his goals are actually possible, his desire for truth in the press
he's not dark and gritty. watch more movies
the contrast is in positions of power and the perception of self against perception of others
if you were honest about this you'd have complained about gotham not being explored while metropolis was shown as bright and upscale
lex displayed that he had a wide reach and doesn't rely on any one person or thing to reach his goals. classic lex, i mean it. not familiar with anything recent but out of everything i've read he's always had a speech where he talks about his enemies and talks about himself. that lex trope is fulfilled in bvs
>>70546314
Oh, and way to miss a fairly blatant reference to a Snyder clip. I think the original quote was "Thank God your visuals are so strong, sir."
I think it might have been Kevin Smith he was talking to, but whoever it was was off-camera, so I can't say for sure.
>>70546457
>No, you really don't, yet you insist.
eh
>Because you're just oh-so original, right?
Not really. But do you really think that responding to "4/10 bantz" with "2/10 bantz" is good bantz? You just said what I said, but implied that I had a lower score than the one I gave you. You might as well have said "no you are."
>And partying like it's 1999. Who gives a fuck?
Ah jeez. You do you m8, but I'm embarrassed for you kinda.
>I remember seeing you spilling your asspain about how much more difficult it is to have an argument here than reddit in a 4plebs link.
I'm sure you do. You also apparently remember me mocking your dead dad. Did I also laugh at you in the locker room in high school?
Hey remember when I criticized that movie you like and now we've been talking about me for like a few hours?
Does this really validate your shitty taste in movies? Given your obsessive need to take ad hominem deflection to desperate stalker levels, I'd guess you're really struggling with some cognitive dissonance. It's really not that hard to say that you liked a bad movie. I loved BvS. And it was a fucking disaster.
Disengage from the culture of comment. You make nothing, change nothing, and are compelled to tolerate everything.
Stay a fan. Don't join.
>>70546777
>Oh, and way to miss a fairly blatant reference to a Snyder clip.
oh no ah jeez my blunder.
>I think the original quote was "Thank God your visuals are so strong, sir."
neat.
>I think it might have been Kevin Smith he was talking to
go on.
> but whoever it was was off-camera, so I can't say for sure.
oh man thats rad.
>>70546936
>eh
Bantz level reaching an impressive new low.
>But do you really think that responding to "4/10 bantz" with "2/10 bantz" is good bantz?
I don't know. You apparently thought opening with "4/10" bantz was "epic" or whatever you kids are saying these days.
>>70546936
>You just said what I said
WAAAAHHH STOP COPYING ME!!
>>70546936
>You might as well have said "no you are."
k
>Ah jeez. You do you m8, but I'm embarrassed for you kinda.
That's an impressive amount of empathy for a sperglord.
>I'm sure you do.
Are you?
>You also apparently remember me mocking your dead dad.
Maybe I was wrong. I'm still batting about 600.
>Did I also laugh at you in the locker room in high school?
Wow. Projecting this early?
>Hey remember when I criticized that movie you like and now we've been talking about me for like a few hours?
Christ, you need a fucking towel or something?
>>70546936
>Does this really validate your shitty taste in movies?
I'm just borrowing a form of therapy that seems to work for you. Turns out it works for me, too.
>Given your obsessive need to take ad hominem deflection to desperate stalker levels
OH NO! NOT THE DREADED AD HOMINEM COPOUT ON AN ANONYMOUS IMAGE BOARD! WHAT WILL I EVER DO TO RECOVER?
>I'd guess you're really struggling with some cognitive dissonance.
And it would be far from the first thing you've gotten wrong.
>It's really not that hard to say that you liked a bad movie.
I like a bad movie. Know what I don't like? Superior shits who can never admit a mistake. Ever.
>I loved BvS.
Yeah, me too.
>And it was a fucking disaster.
And oh my God, so was your entire passive/aggressive cry for a reprieve.
>>70547357
eh you win I guess.
I'd say you've proven how well you can be agitated. I bow out. I know when I've been out-autismed. I don't really have enough stakes in this feud of yours.
See you next month probably when you remind me of all those times I apparently upset you. I'll be your huckleberry.
>>70547357
think i might paint this
>>70529275
Because you're so deranged you take valid criticism as made up complaints, out of frustration for being unable to address those complaints. In conclusion, you're a fuckup.
>>70547735
As always, it's been a pleasure. I hope you've enjoyed this performance piece re-enacting what a conversation with you is normally like. Have a great month.
>>70548149
or this idk. Fucking Ben hands down smiling while scrappy doo flails around. Shit even looks like the poster kinda.
>>70529275
The problem with this movie is that it can only be defended internally.
WITHIN the logic of the movie, yes, Superman is doing the best he can, and is as much of a hero as he could be.
However, this isn't the real complaint. The real complaint is EXTERNAL: why would an author ever put Superman in a situation where he cannot display his qualities clearly?
I mean you could have a movie all about Captain America being forced to decide whether to push a button that kills 49 people or a button that kills 50 people. Obviously he pushes the first button. So he's a hero. But WHY WOULD YOU MAKE THAT MOVIE?
>>70529275
Because they're legitimate complaints that DCucks pretend aren't real. Just like DCucks pretend BvS didn't suck.
>>70529275
Why are you so insecure that you feel like you need to invalidate people who disagree with your opinion of Capeshit movies for children
>>70548432
That's a valid complaint, but I know that at least for myself, I get all the escapism I need from the MCU. I have no problem seeing DC's heroes struggle upward through adversity. and I still honestly believe that's where it's headed - towards a shining moment of pure triumph. If I'm right, it will make us remember that the ups when everything ends on an upbeat.
It will make us remember that heroes are heroes because they struggle, not in spite of it.
>that the ups when everything ends on an upbeat.
that the ups don't seem so up when everything ends on an upbeat.
>>70533436
I will never, ever understand the autism that compels people to make excuses for shitty direction and editing
If your movie creates the wrong impression for the majority of the audience, then that is a failure of the movie. Plain and simple.
>>70548432
>But WHY WOULD YOU MAKE THAT MOVIE?
Because a movie about somebody being forced to kill 49 to save 50 might be more interesting than a movie about somebody saving 50 without any real consequences.
>>70529275
>strange look
>wacky directing
>obnoxious product placement
However the film was still hugely superior to the piece of shit that is bvs.
And l say that as a DC fanboy. l really wished DC movies were good, they just aren't.
>>70548432
because lel punchy fist man smile quips is a boring thing that has been done to death and results in mediocrity. I'd much rather you put a great superhero up to a moral choice rather than a physical one, because they always punch harder. If MoS was a new superhero and not Superman, that complaint wouldn't exist
>>70540644
thanks breh
>>70546641
>if you were honest about this
I'm curious. Do you think people who disagree with you about these movies are lying?
Do you think they secretly enjoyed them, but they make up all these criticisms just to fuck with you?
>>70548895
>If MoS was a new superhero and not Superman, that complaint wouldn't exist
almost all of them wouldn't
the response on the destruction would probably be completely flipped
the only reason shit gets thrown at these movies is because the guy has an s on his chest
>>70546424
>connecting the dots
Its funny that you talk about projection, then you go on to pull some /x/-tier conspiracy theorizing
You always have to be open to the idea that something was coincidental, or you end up with a really toxic, conclusion-driven worldview
>>70529275
Is this movie a meme at this point?
Like is there anyone here that actually didn't like the movie or are we just memeing here
t. someone who shits on MoS because it's funny
>>70529374
exactly this
>>70549091
which to me is a horrible thing, because if you can't accept that someone is doing something different with a property, then you are retarded.
I'm not >>70546641, but just for curiosity's sake, are you >>70544426?
Only asking because reducing that post to just >if you were honest about this
is a little too oversimplified to answer on its own.
>>70540411
do you ever get tired of this?
feel like maybe there's something more?
>>70549141
You want to know how much thought I believe these guys put into this movie? On a repeat viewing, I noticed that the Kent house was looking a little ragged when Clark comes home after finding the scoutship. He even comments on it himself, like taking some time to fix up the place. Then they go and sit on the front porch steps and you can see the paint peeling off the banisters and railings.
I thought, "Huh, wonder if that was just a lucky scouted filming site that they worked into the script."
Later, I watched the special features and no, it wasn't. They painted and aged that porch like that specifically to achieve that effect, and no one but Clark ever even mentions anything at all about the place.
Know what that's like? Your typical young man coming home after his self-centered 20s to see his widowed mom struggling in his absence while he's off "finding himself," It hits. It hits right to the bone, and it's perfectly in line with everything else people say about how much time it would take someone to mature into the role of Superman, or, scratch that, just being any kind of damn man at all.
It's that attention to detail that makes all the other dots people connect about these films just that much easier to believe.
>>70539493
A work just feels juvenile if it hammers you with a single tone throughout. Characters don't feel natural if they're never allowed to lighten up. Humor is what makes the grim scenes punctuate all that much harder.
Look at something like The Wire
It was darker than any shitty Snyder film
And it was also funnier than any Marvel film
>>70549041
that is absolutely not the point of what i said. idealistically, i don't want to disparage anyone
what i'm saying is that the angle people take already shows where the focus is which in itself doesn't make for criticism, because a lot of what is being said is superficial
the contrast between clark and bruce is so much more about their context and surroundings than it is about generalizations about 'bright' 'dark'. i actually find the childlike simplicity of clark's scenes funny, as well as eventuality of there being a grid of his expression in order of appearance in the movie
i absolutely think none of what you asked, but i do think that some of these things are unfair on principle, besides the topic at hand being a certain movie in particular
if someone were to be completely consistent and say, i don't accept this just because, i'd accept that. otherwise the things people bring up aren't valid to me because the movie is very consistent and clear with its various premises while at times being laughably overt about it
and really, none of my posts have been about quality or value judgements at all, i just say things that i'm confident are backed up by the movie or to kind of show how everything the movie does is fair game, at least in regards to all the logistics within frame
if it were purely about enjoyment for me, then none of what i'm saying would matter because i'd being judging movies based completely on aesthetic fulfillment. that train of thought leads me to wanting to be the guy behind the camera and in the editing room while still leaving everything else unchanged.
tl;dr not liking things is fine, but things being said while valid for the individual aren't sound as general rules, imo of course. i try to to show that not even for the topic at hand but for movies in general
>>70538357
By your logic, the Narnia movies were a masterpiece
The kewl soundtrack made me think the movie was better than it actually was.
>>70549672
I don't think anybody is faulting the set design or the visuals in general
But sometimes you have to take a step back and ask yourself how far you're willing to stretch your interpretation in order to "connect the dots".
If you get caught up in trying to justify a film through the details, you're risk losing sight of the flaws inherent in the bigger picture.
>>70549522
I just recognized a guy that derives a distasteful amount of satisfaction from baiting and browbeating people to make himself feel superior and decided I'd show him what it's like for a change.
I adopted all his signature tactics and you can see the results throughout the rest of the thread. It's not something I ever plan on repeating, but it was something he really had coming to him.
>>70549141
no fucking conspiracy
the everything about the movie adds up, and i've been lurking around these movies closely enough at times to be at least somewhat confident in my ability to tell what's what
>>70529275
call me a pleb, but it lacked at least one more fight scene.
same problem with BvS. the only scene with bat fighting goons was the one in the "trailer"
>>70529275
yeah it not like this meh at best movie doesnt have flaws
>>70549892
You can't be unfair to a work of art. Art is there to be interpreted by an audience.
If the majority of your audience interprets your work in a way other than what you intended, that speaks to your failure as an artist and a deep disconnect with your audience.
>>70549930
OK, well let's narrow it down, then. Which dots in particular would you like to discuss?
>>70550029
>muh pisschrist
Luthor's plan made no sense. It was the result of poor scripting and editing.
Doomsday had no reason to be there, other than the fact that we apparently needed a noisy CGI action piece to punctuate this "heady, intellectual masterpiece"
>>70550089
Oh nothing in particular
I just think its important not to let yourself get cemented into your conclusions. And dot-connecting certainly shouldn't be used to try and invalidate people's opinions.
>>70529275
Wouldn't a complaint made up by the individual hold more ground than just repeating the complaints of others?
>>70550135
And if you want to think that, that's perfectly fine. The fact is, though, all the "nonsensical" elements of his plan add up rather neatly into him wanting Clark to make an "alien threat" out of himself by killing Bruce. Lex could have then set Doomsday loose on him while his goons torched Martha and Lois, conveniently leaving no witnesses to contradict Lex's version of events but Clark himself.
All of this, again, quite conveniently, lets Lex use his government contacts to posse up the other metahumans he was keeping tabs on to confront whichever "alien menace" survived Clark and Doomsday's fight. They'd even have Bruce's leftover k-weaponry to do it with.
And that brings us to the Justice League™ brought to you by LexCorp™ marketing logos and all.
One person looks and sees nonsensical shit. Another person looks and sees a magnum opus of a mastermind's scheme. It's all in the interpretation of what's given to us.
