Will there ever be a legit good capeshit film?
So far we've only had a handful of flicks and some movies, all of them made to satisfy the economic standards of a blockbuster for the sake of selling to the average Joe 80%.
But think about this, is it possible we ever get a superhero film that gets to talk about real life tough dealing issues and maybe a sad ending?
I'm also talking about strong writing, a well-crafted solid script and exceptional cinematography. A film that would be on the discussion to enter the all time classic for artistic merit.
The one that has been the closest to this was The Dark Knight, but I think we're still pretty far.
What do you think?
>>70417876
It's coming July 19th
>>70417876
I think you're overthinking it.
We've already got that.
>>70417876
> is it possible we ever get a superhero film that gets to talk about real life tough dealing issues and maybe a sad ending?
Pic related you uneducated pleb.
>>70418102
This and unironically BvS.
>>70417928
>tfw the v stands for vagina
>>70418102
Watchmen is not good.
>>70418165
>There wasn't any super kewl fights and le epic quips so it's so stupid XDXDXD
Watchmen really does require a certain level of intelligence to watch and enjoy.
>>70417876
TDK Trilogy
CA Trilogy
Watchmen
300
Spider Man 2
Some of the Xmen films
>>70418368
>Some of the Xmen films
Which ones? So far I've seen:
X-Men - 5/10
X2 - 7.5/10
First Class - 7/10
DOFP - 8/10
Apocalypse - 8/10
>>70417876
>Will there ever be a legit good capeshit film?
>>70417876
>>70418763
>Leave Capekino tous
What did he mean by this?
Captain America: Winter Soldier is unironically a good solid cape film.
Watchmen
>>70418838
>unironically
>a good solid cape film.
>>70417876
Top tier capseshit already happened decades ago millenial fucktard.
>>70417876
There are multiple good superhero films (from multiple studios) that you might have even seen but cannot appreciate due to warped ideas of what films are and how they work.
>>70419047
Now that I think about it, why does Caps wear a "helmet" that is literally a vintage leather footbal helmet? That thing isn't going to be protecting jack shit. Inb4 comicfags explain it's made out of some special 2strong4u leather made from rhino shit or something.
>>70418102
Wrong pic
>>70419227
Its made out of special rhino shit leather
>>70419227
it's his brain
>dense as lead
>>70418062
This. Do you people even watch non-shit movies?
>>70419262
Did Ace Ventura make it ?
I think you're right, that the best was The Dark Knight. I would also add possibly Spiderman 2.
Every single other Cape shit movie has been shit. I've honestly vowed to never watch another Marvel movie after how horribly disappointed Captain America Winter Soldier ended up being.
>>70418102
Watchmen was good but not great. The only thing that fucked it all up from being great in everyone's opinion is that sex scene.
>huuurrrr slow mo sex scene lolol it's sooo shit
The Comedian and Rorschach were perfect.
Civil War was great senpai. 9/10 from me.
>>70419234
5/10 had trouble watching it. Before you throw Marvel memes at me, I enjoyed X2 more and really enjoyed FC, DOFP, and the current one as well. That first movie had very little characterization, very little story, and the dialogue was pretty bad at times.
>>70418838
Are you serious? It's horrible all around except for a few action scenes and that's only because they had the money for it.
Everything is so fucking boring and convoluted to the point of ridiculousness.
>random guy Cap is jogging next to TOTALLY WON'T BE IMPORTANT IN THE MOVIE
>tension building with good action
>Cap having a hard time with some random guy despite being a fucking supersoldier and a superhero
>oh no, Nick Furry is dead, this important character died, I hope one of the most well paid actor in Hollywood didn't die in this billion dollar franchise
>conspiracy I wonder what's going on
>lol the nazi scientist from the first movie is alive and is a computer and this organization we barely know about has been infiltrated by nazi
>THE NAZIS WERE BEHIND EVERY SINGLE FUCKING NATION TENTION OVER THE PAST YEARS
>including 9/11
>we're just going to use these weapons to just kill anyone that might be a threat to us and we've conveniently calculated everyone in the country's personality type beforehand
>Cap, you need to insert this chip in this conveniently open spot to save the day (a little punch to win button)
>this black guy whom we know nothing about gets a suit and is told to just go help or whatever and all he did was let us know he was in the army and he jogged with Cap a bit
>hey did you know that cap get's shot pretty badly if he doesn't have his shield? WHO KNEW?
>let's use this face changing technology to make the villain reveal his master plan and that he's a nazi
Everything about this movie boggles my mind. The action was alright but everything else was so fucking bad that I can't take anyone who likes this movie seriously.
>>70419508
>The action was alright
>shaky cam
>also .jpeg
>>70419575
I said alright, not good.
The only thing I liked is when Cap in stuck with a knife going to hit, hits the truck behind him and scrapes to the side.
At 2:40
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXPOl6EjbWg
I love that shit. Everything else action wise was just meh/alright.
A good example of the action scene just being alright is the elevator scene. Cool in concept and the tention building up to it was good, though Cap getting suspicious and figuring it out right way was kinda meh but the action itself, in the elevator was bad. Shit execution because they can't use knives (??) and have to use stun batons.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqIBGEcKhGs
I've also not seen Civil war because fuck Marvel after Winter Soldier.
>>70419867
& the best part of winter soldier is completely ignored in the future.
Agents of Shield still exists even after it was destroyed.
it is like Feige acknowledged that the movie characters are not even capable of dealing with their own shit.
>Fuck Fury
>>70419940
A worthless movie that ignores its own timeline and continuity.
What a joke.
I'm honestly stuck with the realization that Iron Man 1 (ignoring the ending) and possibly the Avengers is the only good thing about the Marvel movies. Although the first part of the first Captain America movie was alright.
>>70418838
>>70420050
>''it's such a good spy movie''
Fucking critics, I swear.
>>70420027
Don't forget that Loki should've already been taken care of in Thor,but they had to have him in avengers,else Thor wouldn't care about earth.
Even at the end of the movie,Loki still isn't dead,which inevitably leads to Thor 2.
Iron man can't even acknowledge that his tech will be used against him. IM1 & 2,Avengers 1 & 2,he still doesn't learn.
>based man
>>70417876
It already exists
>>70420061
But it is a good spy movie. You are just pleb.
>>70420050
Same kind of thing you see in Moonraker and The Spy who loved me
>>70420115
inb4 >>70420050
>>70420137
They should've just kissed in the end of WS
That would've prevented another unnecessary movie to explain the disaster that was completely avoidable had they been superheroes who are civil & actual soldiers
>>70418102
>from the visionary director of 300
mfw
yeah visionary if you mean he has visions of him being a good director.
>Watchmen
>300
>Unbreakable
>Batman Begins
>The Dark Knight
Other good ones that may or may not meet your criteria
>X2
>X-Men: First Class
>Man of Steel
>Captain America: The Winter Soldier
>Iron Man
>>70420050
the ultimates had legit political and black ops type of stories
for me i cannot reconcile the ultimates and what we have as the mcu
>>70420187
>triggered
>>70420115
Peter, Scott and Clint needed to be introduced more organically. Otherwise I agree.
>>70420115
>guy with a shield beats guy that can take tank shells..... with his shield
>>70420137
>But it is a good spy movie.
Except it fucking isn't you shitlord.
It was an action movie with some elements of spy organization being corrupt and nothing else. With the problem that we know jack shit about shield.
It would be as if a spy movie had the nazi infiltrate the CIA as its big reveal. It's ridiculous.
>>70420306
inb4 MCUcks are fucked anyway
Honestly, the actual king of superhero movies is possibly The Incredibles.
>Syndome is a fanboy living his dream of being a supervillain against his hero who wronged him and casually wants him to turn dark
>he says he's 'outgrown' Mr Incredible after taunting him to kill (implying mature people can kill) which main problem of Man of Steel and The Dark Knight Rises
>>70420351
It'll be reconned by clone or mind control or whatever, and no one cares.
It would be hilarious if Trump wins and Cap remains pro-Hydra, to show that America has gone full nazi. Thought I don't think Marvel would have the balls to do something like that.
>>70417876
>The Dark Knight
Yeah, no. It's mediocre and not even in the best in the trilogy. Begins was actually decent. Spider-Man and its sequel are also better.
>>70420358
>implying mature people can kill
so if you saw ed gein running towards you with a knife and you had a shotgun next to you with nowhere to run, what would you do?
>>70420399
>and no one cares.
https://twitter.com/ChrisEvans/status/735696011172012033
>>70420399
Old Marvel did. When there was a president they didn't like, they'd have Cap march up and call him a faggot to such a caliber that he'd throw down the mantle, refusing to be called Captain "America".
Once he just went on as "The Captain" and the other time as "Nomad"
>>70420436
Move the goalpost?
If you're a superhero you'll find a way out without killing the guy. I really don't get your scenario having to do with killing people implying maturity.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVrLCTOTT6o
In The Incredibles, it argues that being silly and fun is better than being gritty and mature through murder and death. Something that is a problem with modern DC movies.
Are there any modern capeshit I've left out in this list?
>Unbreakable
>300
>Watchmen
>DCEU
>TDK trilogy
>The Hulk
>MCU
>X-Men Franchise
>Spiderman
>Amazing Spiderman
>The Incredibles
>>70417876
>Will there ever be a legit good capeshit film?
The Dark Knight, Spider-man 2, X2, Winter Soldier and Civil War were all legitimately well made. If you want to stretch capeshit to literally adapted from a comic, Road to Perdition and A History of Violence were great too.
>is it possible we ever get a superhero film that gets to talk about real life tough dealing issues and maybe a sad ending?
Why is this a necessary for capeshit to be good? And while it does have an uplifting ending, again, Spider-man 2 has exactly what you're asking for.
>>70420538
>Something that is a problem with modern DC movies.
Although I should mention that The Incredibles focuses also somewhat on being realistic more than also fun. The henchmen are all smart and can kill superheroes if they do something wrong, if you get hit or stuck somewhere bad you can die.
There's nothing like The Incredibles.
>>70420538
i don't get where you get off saying that killing implies no maturity
>if you're a superhero you'll find a way out
really? every single time? all the time? you really don't think this is bullshit?
of course you and me, as adults don't feel threatened by children and can rely on knowledge and experience to deal with children
but another man as strong as you? stronger? how do people act in that regard? and how the fuck are 'superheros' exempt from this?
and that is not the point of the incredibles at all, not at all.
>>70420610
It's not the central point, but it is a main point about Syndrome concerning superheroes. Ignoring the obvious invidualism and objectivism themes and messages.
>really? every single time? all the time? you really don't think this is bullshit?
No? There's a different between killing in self defense if you absolutely have to, not having to because you're a superhero (why would you kill someone if you have superpowers?) and trying to find an alternate solution?
>>70420187
300 was visionary
>>70420564
>Ghost Rider franchise
>Daredevil
>Elektra
>Fantasic Four franchise
>Hellboy franchise
>Jonah Hex
>Green Laturn
>Superman Returns
just off the top of my head so quite a bit actually not even including shows
>>70420727
And one of those are actually good.
>>70420727
Although Ghost Rider is somewhat fun.
>>70420727
>Ghost Rider franchise
>Daredevil
Oh God, do these really count? I mean the rest I can put up with, maybe, but do I really have to sit through these to satisfy my autism?
>>70420676
that's not the point of syndrome's roleplay either
being a superhero is in no way a guarantee of anything other than the obvious superior inert ability. you're saying that in a supposed scenario of superhero that everything somehow changes for that individual, which it doesn't.
if we're going about moral absolutes here, then yeah, sure, keep killing as a last resort.
but law enforcement in real life kill people ie eric garner all the time for no reason at all. shit happens so to say. shit just happens
which leads me to what i think is your underlying thinking, that stories that include exceptional individuals should not have these individuals kill under any circumstances, and if so we judge whatever story here on whether we like it/identify/ability to project ourselves in whatever person. which i think is bullshit on principle
tl;dr
yeah of course it's a last resort but i'm not going to get mad if someone had no other recourse, exceptional individual or not
>>70420858
I can understand the Ghost Rider hate especially being that it was my favorite /co/ book series. At least the Sam Elliot parts were cool. I don't understand the hate for Daredevil at all though unless you have a hate boner for Evanescence
>>70420960
No I unironically like Fallen, I just have heard nothing good about it.
>>70417876
No.
People on here have the attitude of, if it's superheroes = shit by definition.
BvS didn't succeed in being a legitimate good film (maybe the full cut will change that), but a lot of the criticism was "it's shit because it's capeshit", which is a shame.
![283820773[1].jpg_w=480&h=320&crop=1.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/yuUdlJs.jpg "283820773[1].jpg_w=480&h=320&crop=1.jpg")
>>70420988
stop hanging out on /pol/ then. MCD was a way better Kingpen than captain autism on the show. I never understood the hate sure it's corny but it's good fun and a lot better than a lot of MCU movies
Marvel will keep turning out enjoyable movies like clockwork, but I really doubt we will be getting a citizen Kane esque Capeshit.
>>70420700
>300 was visionary
It was visionary in the sense that it looked like it took place on the planet Mars instead of Earth. I'm holding out for Snyder's Battle of the Alamo movie where it takes place in prehistoric times with Mexicans riding velocirapters fighting Texicans wearing armor on rollerskates.
>>70419346
Dark Knight would have been good if the ending made sense.
It fucked over the entire plot. Why exactly did Batman need to take the blame when they could have pinned it on joker?
If they gave a plausible explanation why Batman could have done it (in the eyes of the public) and a reason why it oculdnt have been the joker.
>>70421159
Because the Joker was already in custody? Admittedly, it was badly explained. Batman had to be blamed for the future of Gotham and legacy of Harvey to continue.
>>70419346
>The Comedian and Rorschach were perfect.
I feel like most of the male cast is spot on. Doc Manhattan has always felt just right to me, and I think both Night Owls did very well, particularly the elder.
Ozimandias left something to be desired, he's not really the genuinely caring and tortured dude I always pictured, and I can't say I loved the Silk Spectre acting job(though her mum seemed solid).
>>70421159
>Dark Knight would have been good if the ending made sense.
Not to mention that the beginning is even more asinine than TDK's as infamous as it is
>>70421159
>Why exactly did Batman need to take the blame when they could have pinned it on joker?
might have something to do harvey's death was pinned on him as well.....
>>70421216
>I can't say I loved the Silk Spectre acting job
Her acting felt somewhat robotic and flat when in the comics, she's your typical crying hysterical woman having endless fits from realizing that she's wasted her entire life doing nothing.
>>70417876
>Will there ever be a legit good capeshit film?
But we've had a few; pic related, Watchmen (despite the "muh comic" autism), Spiderman 2,The Dark Knight, Iron Man 3, and even Batman Begins/Iron Man 1/Spiderman 1 are surprisingly good despite being retelling an origin story yet again.
Btw i meant the Sam Raimi Spiderman's, not the blantant "gotta keep the IP" ones.
>>70417876
>is it possible we ever get a superhero film that gets to talk about real life tough dealing issues and maybe a sad ending?
jesus christ no, this would be awful. Hellboy and Raimi's Spiderman are the only good capeshit because they were self-aware about the fact that they are fucking superheros. we don't need another grimdark dork knight series fuck
>>70421364
Super was just meh personally.
There's another movie called God Bless America which is basically the same movie but rather than just do random justice, it's the same guy doing justice at America being shit. It also talks shit about Juno which is double hilarious considering what happens in Super with the girl who played Juno.
>>70420306
And Bond had to deal with Spectre infiltrating the government.
Also Goldeneye revolved around a MI6 double agent.
Your point?
>>70421499
>God Bless America
Granted, never seen it, but from what I've seen it was played straight, whereas Super is 100% silly due to being a realist take on superhero movies, in that you would need to be bipolar to become that kind of vigilante.
>>70421677
>And Bond had to deal with Spectre infiltrating the government.
Shit movie.
>Also Goldeneye revolved around a MI6 double agent.
Him being an antagonist is beside the point.
My point is that it's like if M16 had been infiltrated and M was evil the whole time to kill the Queen the as aristocracy. Stupid as fuck.
And really, you're relying on a bad James Bond movie and a good one as your standard of how to qualify Winter Solder as a spy movie?
>>70421835
The whole becoming a vigilante was already done better in Watchmen and Kickass imo. I always felt that Super was just gritty for the sake of it.Especially that reverse rape scene.
You should watch God Bless America. It's not better than Super but I find that it pokes jabs at Super and might interest you.
>>70421875
>reverse
What a retard.
Watchmen
Hellboy 2
Blade 2
Xman DOFP
GotG
dark knight tilogoy
Spiderman 1-2
all pretty solid films
>>70419308
Is this irony
>>70421908
Actual rape, whatever. You know what I mean.
The Japanese already made a decent capeshit series with a character who can defeat everyone.Pic very related.
>>70418318
He literally added in extra fight scenes that werent in the original comic, watchmen is an unintelligent plebfest
>>70421974
Manga's better only because it gets to Garou's arc. The anime is just alright where it ends. It only becomes great at the end of Garou's arc.
>>70421875
>Watchmen
Agreed, though it still doesn't really point out how silly the idea of being a superhero IRL would be, the Nightowl and the chick (spectre something?) fight scene in the alley is still an overly slick, "movie" fight. Super's humor comes a lot from the deconstruction of superhero stuff down to it's lowest point, whereas Watchmen does it to ask interesting questions.
>Kickass
Stuck between Watchmen and Super tone wise, the more i think about it, the more i regard Kickass as Super attempted by anyone except James Gunn, ie it has no balls
>>70421980
>He literally added in extra fight scenes that werent in the original comic
nothing wrong with that
>>70422041
Hmm. I guess by bringing it down completely and removing any fun, it becomes its own thing and nothing else really comes close. Both Watchmen and Kickass have fun with the superhero gig while Super just goes 'no, it's fucking sick and shit'.
Its good point does outweigh its flaws by being its own thing I guess. I guess you're right.
>>70418746
this guy gets it
>>70422110
Yeah, I'd say that's accurate; Watchmen and Kickass do play superhero stuff straight at points, doing the stronger points of the genre (spectacle, etc), while doing some deconstruction.
Super is definitely doing it's own thing, to the point that it pretty much stops being an outright superhero movie and into what i imagine a Sam Raimi revenge thriller would look like.
Super is just refreshing to me, seeing as how even the best capeshit can be boring (even the action often sucks thanks to shaky-cam and most characters being to OP), and actually has genuine feels at the end.
>>70422180
If it wasn't for AoU, the higher you go, the worst the movies get.
Absolute 3 hours and a half of Watchmen is a must for anyone who genuinely want to look for a capekino, even for the doubters.
>>70422457
Why?
It's a fucking chore to watch.
>>70420115
This picture is misleading, the Vision didn't do anything during the fight.
>>70419227
why can batmans leather hat take bullets caps cant huh?
>>70420768
>not liking Hellboy
Aww come on.
>>70422642
Because prep-time.
>>70422671
I never thought either Hellboy were good desu.
>>70417876
>Will there ever be a legit good capeshit film?
No. Hollywood only makes crap now
>>70420306
>It was an action movie with some elements of spy organization
so it was a spy movie?
>>70422746
Don't be so grumpy.
>>70422796
Except shield is not a spy organization.
>>70420358
>Honestly, the actual king of superhero movies is possibly The Incredibles.
Agreed.
>>70420538
No it fucking does not. Not only are you misreading the purpose of that scene, but we have a whole bunch of other scenes where it makes the exact opposite point, with Elastigirl giving her children 'the talk' about how they should not hesitate to use lethal force, after which they then proceed to kill a bunch of people. The whole thing is sure as hell pro super hero films dealing with death and mature subject matter. "If you're a superhero you'll find a way out without killing the guy," is very much against what the film stands for.
>>70423102
leathal force =/= self defense
Are you saying trying not to get killed is the same as strangling an assistant in a fit of angst rage from the loss of your family?
Maybe I've just phrased it wrong.
>>70417928
>trying to hide the V so it looks like a Justice League movie where they are friends
WB are fucking pathetic
>>70421974
OPM is straight up shit.
The Japs did costumed supers right way before that anyway.
>>70421974
But can he defeat Ramsay and his 20 good men?
>>70423174
>Are you saying trying not to get killed is the same as strangling an assistant in a fit of angst rage from the loss of your family?
That's completely irrelevant. Mr. Incredible took advantage of the situation to make a threat in the heat of the moment, while Syndrome called him out on that he's not willing to follow through with it. Your argument here is actually what I'm pointing out in the first place, the characters are people who may or may not choose to kill, depending on the situation, because that makes the movie interesting.
You're the one arguing for the idea that The Incredibles is somehow anti-killing in general, when it is explicitly not, all I'm doing is arguing against that. At no point whatsoever does it "argue that being silly and fun is better than being gritty and mature through murder and death". In fact, it actively goes out of its way to be "fun" by using "murder and death" for humor.
>>70419508
>random guy Cap is jogging next to TOTALLY WON'T BE IMPORTANT IN THE MOVIE
oh no they introduced a new character oh fug
>tension building with good action
yeah it was great
>Cap having a hard time with some random guy despite being a fucking supersoldier and a superhero
blame joss for having him fighting robots
>oh no, Nick Furry is dead, this important character died, I hope one of the most well paid actor in Hollywood didn't die in this billion dollar franchise
it'd be benifitial to the studio to really kill him off so they dont have to pay him as much
>conspiracy I wonder what's going on
yes its a thriller
>lol the nazi scientist from the first movie is alive and is a computer and this organization we barely know about has been infiltrated by nazi
other than the other three movies and tv show SHIELD was featured in
>THE NAZIS WERE BEHIND EVERY SINGLE FUCKING NATION TENTION OVER THE PAST YEARS
standard affair for a conspiracy thriller
>including 9/11
implying 9/11 wasnt an inside job
>we're just going to use these weapons to just kill anyone that might be a threat to us and we've conveniently calculated everyone in the country's personality type beforehand
its public knowledge the state spies on ur personal data irl
>Cap, you need to insert this chip in this conveniently open spot to save the day (a little punch to win button)
hes replacing a chip that's already there
>this black guy whom we know nothing about gets a suit and is told to just go help or whatever and all he did was let us know he was in the army and he jogged with Cap a bit
shit why would a soldier respect captain america what a plot hole
>hey did you know that cap get's shot pretty badly if he doesn't have his shield? WHO KNEW?
yeah realism
>let's use this face changing technology to make the villain reveal his master plan and that he's a nazi
huh? they already knew his plan obviously
DCuck please pay attention
>>70419940
AoS follows them as illegal vigilantes for the rest of the show
>>70420564
Dredd.
>>70423822
>oh no they introduced a new character oh fug
Yes and the way they introduced him was weak. Introducing new characters to a series is not something bad.
>blame joss for having him fighting robots
Irrelevant. Cap shouldn't be struggling with a single guy.
>it'd be benifitial to the studio to really kill him off so they dont have to pay him as much
I'm pointing out the lack of potential fear that he might be actually killed. It makes the whole thing concerning his death to be shit.
>other than the other three movies and tv show SHIELD was featured in
Hahahaha. What a joke. Oh you mean in Thor where we saw people in suits? Or Nick talking to Tony about shield? Or the group in the carrier? Such complex innerworkings truly shows what type of organization shield is.
>standard affair for a conspiracy thriller
Nazis controlling large agencies of power is not standard affair. It's shit.
>implying 9/11 wasnt an inside job
>implying irrelevant implication
The implication is that EVERY bad event was caused by Hydra. Which you conveniently gloss over.
>its public knowledge the state spies on ur personal data irl
spies on your date =/= make profiles to rank if you're a potential threat.
>hes replacing a chip that's already there
No he's not. There's an empty slot purposefully empty for him to insert.
>shit why would a soldier respect captain america what a plot hole
It's a plot hole for him to be randomly given a suit from nowhere then become important when the only thing he did prior is jog next to Cap America.
>yeah realism
Realism has nothing to do with it. I was pointing out how dramatic (not) that Cap had to insert the chip and the movie only tried to do that by not giving cap his shield. Wow, such drama.
>huh? they already knew his plan obviously
I'm pointing out that the fact changing technology could have been used in many other ways and the only usage was shit and purposefully done as a plot point end scenario.
>DCuck please pay attention
Not even
