What went wrong?
I need some negative critiques of Buffy the Vampire Slayer as a series. If you watched it and there are things about it that annoyed you I want to know them.
I love the show, seriously in my top 10 shows. That said, there are obviously flaws. The character development is shit aside from Buffy and Giles, the "story arcs" feel mostly like an after-thought, and it jumps the shark after moving to UPN.
Really good show, actually.
Still, not perfect. Season 6 and 7 are unnecessary, as the story was done and told by then and you can tell the writers were reaching for silly, non sensical character drama: the kind of stuff that has the viewer saying, "But that character wouldn't do that. They've been through too much to do that."
Season 6 and 7 did have some fun episodes here or there though.
Suffers hard from "Monster of the Week" formula -- but as pretty good over arching plots and character development for the most part.
Stinks of 90s, but that's part of its charm.
Really fun world to play in. Wish they did more with the property.
>>69050690
Buffy is cute.
The Slayer Hopefuls in the final season were awful. They detracted from the whole season. The whole final season. Nothing redeeming about them.
They also didn't do enough with Dawn. She was good for one season and they didn't know what to do with her afterwards.
The final battle in high school with the giant snake monster was cringeworthy with the whole school taking off their gowns and launching an offensive on the snake. God damn that was bad.
Feminism
>>69050845
>The character development is shit aside from Buffy and Giles
this
i hated angel so much until he got his own show. spike to a lesser degree. buffy to other characters on her show is like grey is to the asian bitch on grey's anatomy.
>>69051000
Not only did the supporting characters barely change, but when they did it was always some dumb forced shit like
>Oh, Willow is a witch now
>Oh, Xander is a carpenter now
>Oh, Willow is a lesbian now
>Oh, Spike is a pussy now
None of it feels natural at all, especially compared to Angel which does character development brilliantly
honestly I hated this show and I dont know why. I loved angel and they used almost the same format. to me they always put Buffy as someone superpowerful and she kicked anyones assno matter what. but I think its more the fact that sarah michelle gellar looked so wimpy especially when they cut to the fighting scenes and her stunt double kicked everyone ass was so contrasting with her struggling just to lift her legs. I still think about it, dont know why
>>69051311
It annoyed me how in Season 6 they turned Willow in a Super Saiyan who can literally explode people with her thoughts.
It made Buffy completely irrelevant storywise. Like Krillan in DBZ. Except DBZ wasn't named after Krillan's fighting abilities.
So stupid.
>>69050690
>critiques
Well, Seasons
4 > 2 > 3 > 7 > 6 > 5 > 1
so it's very difficult to get someone new to into it, but overall it holds together really well. It's very 90's tho, if that even means anything.
>>69051506
One one hand it's refreshing to see someone giving season 4 the credit it deserves, on the other hand the very idea of the UPN seasons being better than anything is retarded as fuck
As time went on there were more and more forced drama parts and less fun parts.
>>69051461
>stupid
>literally making the hero's lieutenant the bad guy for the season
That was arguably the hardest bad guy they fought the entire series, because it's not like you can just kill them.
Great story, shit direction that season. The scripts were there but all the good directors were on Angel and Firefly.
>>69051555
It's a push.
Mayor season was best season, hands down.
Season 6 was good in theory but kinda visually flat, it came together better in season 7 but never as good as season 4 or 2 again.
Anyone says 4th season isn't best season hasn't actually watched the show.
>>69051590
Eh, somewhat true. The early seasons actually became more and more comic, with season 4 focusing more on comedy than any other. Then about a third of the way into season 5 it turns into a soap opera and only gets worse
>>69051614
You really think the writing was good in season 6? Can you really make it through the "Dark Willow Saga" without cringing several times at the stupid as fuck dialogue? I sure as fuck can't
>>69051506
Did you mean
3 > 2 > 5 > 4 > 6 > 1 > 7 ?
Cause you had several typos in your post>>69051649
>>69051000
It's all worth it for that scene in Angel where Wes and Cordelia make fun of Angel and Buffy.
How come Willow suddenly turns gay in season 3 or something? I thought you were born gay?
>>69051649
I think you're confusing seasons 3 and 4, the former has The Mayor and the latter has Adam and The Initiative. Season 3 is largely considered the best, while season 4 gets a lot of hate but I personally love it and think it's criminally underrated.
>>69051772
It's a spectrum
>>69051756
>buffy i love you so much i almost forgot to brooooood
all of my keks
it's sad how accurate it was.
>>69051772
It's halfway through season 4, except at the time they don't imply she's "gone full lesbo" only that she happens to be attracted to and later in a relationship with another woman.
It's not until season 5 when they try to make Willow out to be 100% dyke as if she was never interested in boys to begin with. Pretty dumb
>>69051791
Oh right, confusing seasons. Goddammit i hate it when I do that.
Season 3 is best season, season 4 could never hold up no matter what they put in it. Season 3 is best season, anyone who says different etc etc.
3 > 2 > 5 > 7 > 6 > 4 > 1
or thereabouts. 1 is worst season, we will hear no arguments
>>69051772
>turns gay
Maybe she just didn't know it. It can be pretty difficult when literally every piece of media says every girl is supposed to like six-pack abs.
>>69051894
Season 4 is fantastic and doesn't deserve to be that low, and I love season 1 as well.
Still I agree season 3 is best season
>>69051951
But she was legitimately into Xander at the start and before the show
>>69051874
being a teenager can be a confusing time.
hence, THE ENTIRE GODDAMN SHOW
>>69051963
Hotness level (in 1998)
Cordelia > Willow > Oz > Buffy > Glory > Tara
>>69052040
why is oz on that list
>>69051791
Season 4 is rated low because Riley was boring as fuck. How they managed to make a secret government operative who hunts demons boring, I don't know, but they fucking did it.
However, it did have several standout episodes, including Hush which was probably the best episode of the series.
>>69051989
She was 16.
When I was 16 I was fapping it to Madonna. Nobody knows what the fuck they're into.
>>69052091
>When I was 16 I was fapping it to Madonna
Madonna was hot as fuck when she was younger, I don't know why that's a dumb thing.
>>69052071
Season 4 gets a bad rap because of Riley, but he was not really a major character aside from in a few episodes and didn't become annoying until season 5. Plus Anya and Spike as main characters more than make up for his presence, both of them in their prime before their shtick got stale.
Also as far as comedy goes, you can't beat season 4. So many hilarious moments, as well as some damn good dramatic ones like the two-parter where Faith steals Buffy's body
>>69051742
"Get off, superbitch!"
>>69051742
>Can you really make it through the "Dark Willow Saga" without cringing several times at the stupid as fuck dialogue?
Dialogue was okay. Fairly standard mustache twirly evil villain stuff.
The aftermath of that where everyone is pretending it was a big deal that she killed Warren is worse, though.
If ever there was a guy who wholly had a good murdering coming to him, it was Warren. Hell, if Willow didn't do it I think Buffy probably should have.
The main problem with the show is it just ran a few season too long. Wrap it up around season 5 and be done with it. Yet nooooo. The bring in more random watcher issues. Then here comes the power creep as it's buffy vs a god and then "source of all evil".
the show as about a hot highschool chick kicking monster and vampire ass. They were done with that story line by season 4 so do maybe one more for the cash grab and get out.
The move from the WB kind of messed with show a bit too. That whole season end and rebirth was just clumsy writing. I still own the series on DVD but it's a pretty big commitment to plow past that many seasons again.
It also fan boy bugs me she did not show up for Angel's in the final run of that show and they had to use a stunt double. Even big ass movie star George Clooney came back to ER to wrap it up about 10 year later. Yet "I've never had another hit in my life" SMG can't pop back in to the buffy role for 1/2 a day of shooting? blah. .
Season 1 and 2 are great. Really great. It goes downhill fast from 3 onwards. 5 and 6 don't even feel like the same show anymore.
>mfw Xander, who I projected onto the most, never got to fuck Buffy
>>69052336
But Xander got to fuck Faith though.
It morphed in to some kind of preachy agenda abortion, like most shows that stay on the air for longer than intended
>>69051614
>That was arguably the hardest bad guy they fought the entire series, because it's not like you can just kill them.
But that's what I mean. In theory Season 6 seems good on paper, much like having Willow as a villain.
The problem is that to make Willow a credible villain she has to be more powerful than Buffy and that just wrecks havoc with every fucking aspect of the overall story and with characterization. Willow's "superpower" was supposed to be that she is smart, not actually super-powered. That's Buffy's superpower.
Honestly if they wanted to make Willow a villain they should have turned her into a genius inventor like Warren or something.
>>69052316
The show was pretty set on murdering humans = bad. That was Faith's entire character arc.
Using magic to kill, also = bad, there were reasons for that within the lore of the show, regardless of one's personal politics.
>>69052336
>mfw Xander, who I projected onto the most, never got to fuck Buffy
this feel
>>69052336
>booo, the show isn't the same as season 1
Fuck off, dude. And season 3 had the best writing and the most depth, which I suspect is why you hate it.
>>69052367
And it was the last interesting thing he did for the entire series, with the possible exception of the final 2 minutes of season 6.
I have never understood the appeal of this show. My gf and all her friends adore it and did a rewatch of all the seasons last year. Whenever I tried to watch, the dialogue and style of the show is just so cringey to me, I can barely get through an episode. I don't understand how people can like it. Am I alone?
What season did Buffy go to college? The first episode of that season has a porn actress as the villain. I watched her get fucked in the mouf, ass, and pussy. That's right, she did anal!
>>69052322
I'm actually glad she didn't it felt better that it did not become about her at the end and actually because of Spike's presence and arc, it feels more like it goes back to Angels origins and history. If it had Buffy ending as a show at end of season 3 I would agree but a lot happened from end of season 3 buffy to angel season 5 but I can understand why you feel that way though.
>>69052410
Yeah, that's all well and good, killing is bad. But this motherfucker was offing people right and left, and I'd considering putting him down to be morally gray at worst. Not exactly the "oh my god Dark Willow is so evil" act they played it out to bed.
>>69052067
As a control group.
>>69052206
"I don't want to protect you from the world. I want to show it to you."
>>69050690
pretty comfy. Last few seasons you could tell that Sarah Michelle Gellar was getting tired of the show though. Unfortunately she was pretty much carrying it, and the shows title made it impossible for her to be replaced.
>>69052156
>why is that a dumb thing
Because porn exists.
>>69052336
>he identified with the unlikable, bitchy loser author avatar
Joss, is that you?
>>69052336
Xander literally existed as an author surrogate for Joss Whedon. Every male watching the show is supposed to project onto him.
>>69052336
Season 1 is underrated as fuck, but your opinion is still shit
>>69052535
Easy access to porn for 16 year olds is a pretty new thing, bruh.
When I was 16, we downloaded the same 10 softcore pictures on 56K modems and we liked it.
>>69052596
I projected onto angel and after he left..I ended up watching angel and ditching buffy..so ..whoops? or rather projected onto Angel until Wesley season 3 and beyond.
It's been a while but there are a few things I can remember.
I always thought the fight scenes were pretty shit, it started to seem like filler after a while because Buffy never seemed to grow as a fighter. It should have been easy for her to fight vampires but there were a lot of times where she would get her ass kicked and struggle to kill them. But she's meant to be super strong so it kind of went against that.
Tara always seemed like a non-character just there so Willow could be a lesbian, no wonder they dropped her from the show.
The episode where their mom died seemed accurate about how people deal with loss but it felt out of place in the show.
The rape thing in season 6 also seemed out of place because they seemed to forget that Buffy was strong, so how exactly can't she throw Spike off of herself?
Dawn was pretty much useless after she was no longer the key.
That part where Buffy, Willow and Xander connect with eachother to become one or something? I think it happened in season 4 and they never mentioned it again. I thought that would have been an interesting thing to build on and get some character development out of.
>>69052626
these kids don't even know what it was like waiting five to ten minutes for a single picture.
>>69052649
>>69052596
>>69052336
I think ya'll niggas looking for the term "identifying with."
Projecting means attributing your own psychological shit to someone else.
I always writed it off as teenage power fantasy crap. Is it really worth watching?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLE38KQuyjM
What's your favorite season opening credits?
For me it'sseason 3. It's literally perfect.Season 5 onwards make the show look gay af though.Season 1 and 2 intros make the show look like goosebumps for a senior high audience
>>69052706
Which is what you do after identifying with a character and then deciding to write fanfiction about them
>All those fanfics about Xander becoming a super undefeatable badass who marries Buffy and beats up Angel
>>69052757
I love the "Ahhhhhh!" in the opening creds for the first two seasons, very disappointed they got rid of it
Did it really bug anyone else that they couldn't find a stunt woman for Sarah Michelle Gellar with even vaguely the same body type? Or hell, even approximately the same hair?
The transitions between her and the stunt woman were always so obvious and jarring.
>>69052900
she did enough of her stunts that it wasn't that bad when it first aired. Problem is with digital that you can see these shows in ways that they werent meant to be seen
>>69052927
>she did enough of her stunts that it wasn't that bad when it first aired
I didn't see her doing many of her own stunts at all.
She would something relatively simple like one roundhouse kick and they'd cut to a back angle of a completely different, much taller woman. Then cut back to SMG.
>>69053018
all I can say is I didn't notice when it was on tv back in like 00'
>>69052322
>Yer hit in my life" SMG can't pop back in to the buffy role for 1/2 a day of shooting? blah. .
Sarah Michelle Gellar is super arrogant though. She was the ONLY person in the entire cast who did not lend their voice to the 2002 Xbox-exclusive game. And by then Alyson Hannigan was probably a bigger star.
>>69053075
Didn't even david come back to do voicework for that game? I liked that one.
>>69050690
Went on for too long. Should have ended with Graduation.
>>69053103
>Didn't even david come back to do voicework for that game?
Yep. Every single person except SMG. Real voices of Giles, Xander, Willow, Cordelia, Angel, Spike, even The Master all in there. Not for Buffy though!
Fuck her. Buffy the 2002 game is literally the closest thing to an extra episode of Season 3.
>>69052465
Nope.
>>69053162
Well I think time proved her wrong. Ego has a way of being mollified.
Angel > Buffy
>>69053075
SMG was a bit arrogant, truth be told.
She tried to distance herself from the show after it ended because she wanted to become a star and was afraid of being typecast (worked out so well for her, amirite?)
Also she was mad at Joss for "abandoning her" to focus on his pet project Firefly
Anya best girl
>>69053301
>meanwhile sexhound david has been on tv consistently for 20+ years
>>69053281
They each have their own charm and distinct strengths/weaknesses, but yeah I agree
>>69052769
>all those fanfics trying to make xander a not useless piece of shit
well at least they're trying
>>69053313
anya always looked 10 years older than everybody else desu
>>69053162
wait is that the xbox one? chaos bleeds or something stupid? i love that game, i mean it's pretty shit but i loved it anyway
>>69053435
Nah, Chaos Bleeds is like a "sequel" to Buffy 2002. They are by completely different developers though.
Chaos Bleeds is shit, while Buffy 2002 is actually a really good game. The developers spent like 3 years trying to perfect it which is why it's based on Season 3 even though it got released in 2002. It's actually not a rushed licensed piece of shit.
>>69053402
>xander will never fug buffy to this music
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JUCR_WoRhs
>>69053402
being a common guy is pointless when your woman is a demon powered killing machine.
I will remember you' proved this.
>>69053435
>Chaos Bleeds
An amusing enough game, not good but worth playing if you're a fan of the show. The 2002 game is far better, but also far more difficult.
>>69053224
Yup. I bet you thought she did anal in Buffy and not in porn.
Silly you!
>>69051461
But that was an inside problem. Joss Whedon wanted Willow to be the main character. Ratings were kinda bad, so season seven was more about Buffy again.
>>69053656
Nope, you didn't - she's some chick who was in a few noughties films married to that dude from Sons of Anarchy
Search out her name on Google, there ain't shit anywhere
Maybe because she's blonde and American your silly brain got confused with all the other blonde Americans
>>69053404
Anya is a cutie 3.14
>>69050690
quips
feminism
>>69053761
Nigga she ain't nobody. And she ain't married to no movie star either. She was a porn actress and that's why she was only in like 8 minutes of the whole episode.
>>69053899
What name then?
>>69053899
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_bias
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misattribution_of_memory
>>69053313
>tfw she got naked in a short film but I can't find the whole thing anywhere
>>69053951
Fuck if I know. She's the chubby blonde in that very first episode.
Is it true people should stop watching this show at the end of Season 3?
>Whedon
let me guess, all the women are lesbians
>>69053956
Oh stahp yaself. She did porn. Just because you don't know who she is and it's driving you crazy doesn't mean it's not true. It's like it's never happened before. Xfiles used to put porn actresses in episodes all the time.
>>69053951
I'm the sensible anon who doesn't think every extra has done anal in porn, her name is Katharine Towne
>>69054005
whedon did recon one 100% straight character into a 100% lesbian for no reason at all
>>69053978
>Xander gets best girl
>Acts like a retard and drives her away
what a fucking chump
>>69052389
Yeah it was like it went from Monster of the Week to Moral of the Week.
I just wanted a supernatural show with a fun cast of characters, not angst and melodrama with hamfisted lessons.
>>69051744
This is the correct ranking of the seasons.
>tfw buffy and faith
>boner.jpg
>they never do anything with them and i have to resort to sorting through terrible femslash fanfiction to get my fix
god damnit joss you massive beta you made willow a lesbian with a clearly submissive partner but you couldn't show buffy and faith fighting and fucking furiously?
I hated how vampires went from being scary monsters into useless twats that literally anyone could kill with ease.
At first only the Slayer and other vampires could stand up to them. Eventually in Angel even a bunch of homeless kids were hunting them.
>>69054264
like demons in supernatural
big baddies at the start, cannon fodder by season 4
>>69054102
He even admitted he just one day decided he wanted to make a character gay, he didn't even know which one it was going to be.
>>69054264
I agree with the Angel thing, but I think it demonstrates the show and character's progression pretty well
Every night starts out as a struggle for survival each night going out and fighting something unpredictable and strong without much experience and training, especially for the scoobies and ESPECIALLY in the first series when the vampire king is knocking about and all the vampires have been congregating for a while in Sunnydale
With time it becomes an every day thing like filling out paperwork at the office for Buffy because she's been doing it for years and she's had the training, and even the scoobies can use strategy to beat a couple of vampires without too much issue because of the sheer field time they've had in comparison to fresh vamps
>>69054361
I understand the reasoning behind it but I still hated every time they had some badass normalfag hunting vampires. Why have a slayer if anyone and their mum can do it?
It's like Jimmy Olsen telling Superman to stay home while he saves the world.I don't know shit about comics so that analogy might be dogshit
>>69054264
I think it kinda felt weird going from Buffy to Angel in terms of world building.
In in the earlier seasons of Buffy it feels like the supernatural aspects of the world are quite hidden from normal people (ala Harry Potter). Basically a normal person would never meet any kind of supernatural creature and live to tell the tale.
While in Angel it's like supernatural shit is common knowledge, almost like there's a fucking caste system with humans and demons living side by side. Just feels strange.
>even normal women and children start killing vampires
>Xander is still useless in every encounter
>>69054073
Already found her before I posted earlier. I thought it was a different one.
>>69054483
Blame feminism
Whedon is a fucking cuck like all characters on this shitty show
>>69054441
Its still hidden in Angel, until I'd say season 4 where sun gets blocked out..
I think Angel is just showing that underworld is more ordered in Los Angeles compared to Sunnydale and it. Jane Epsenson or whatever her name is goes into detail in commentary about world building in angel and there is a reason for that because Angel's world deals more with having to live with demons versus just killing them.
Kind of a Grimm/Slayer versus Vampires/Demons etc
You're not going to see that world very much but even Buffy gets benign demons later on and knows where they hang out by season 6
>>69054483
Poor Xander...
>>69054511
>muh /pol/ buzzwords
Lol.
Anyway, I liked Buffy, but can't disagree with the criticisms people have presented here.
>>69055297
You honestly think people disliking feminism is equated with /pol/ ?
>>69055576
This is /tv/ post tumblr/srs invasion. If you're not politically correct you belong on /pol/
