![bvsquad1[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/lmcsdPQ.jpg "bvsquad1[1].jpg")
name a single flaw with this movie that
1. isn't caused by your lack of comprehension
2. isn't caused by your lack of artistic vision
3. isn't caused because you're a fucking idiot who thought a kid's movie was hard to follow
Editing. Other than that, it is a great piece hated by numales
>>68994773
if not trolling, can you explain Batman's dream about his mom turning into a bat? I really didn't understand it and explain in detail why fathers and mothers where so important in the film to the three main characters, thanks
>>68994773
The music was shite.
Superman is boring.
Batman is a faggot.
Why did Lois Lane throw the spear away, and why did she suddenly go back and retrieve it when she had no idea the superheroes needed it
>>68994773
>>68994773
Big fan here. BvS is superKino A+ material
But its flaws are:
- Editing
- Pacing
- Jumps in characterization
- Uneven plotting
The good news though is all that will be fixed in the directors cut, which earn an S rank Ultra Kino.
>>68994905
Why is Batman a faggot?
Also Lois was shoehorned AGAIN OP, fucking again.
>>68995015
You "hope."
>>68994773
- Wonderwoman sword can hurt Doomsday
- Superman could've borrowed her sword and stab Doomsday right away
- After all this, why can't Superman just throw the fucking spear like a projectile
Also,
- Superman and Doomsday in space
- Nuked launched from Earth
- Why didn't Superman and Doomsday fly off to outer? Conservation of momentum be damned, Superman just floats in space while Doomsday fell back to Earth
>>68994773
Wonder Woman has less than 20 lines. Superman has less than 20 lines. CGI work isn't very good in a lot of places. Fight scenes make up a tiny percentage of the film. Even the best one is only around 5 minutes. Editing is pretty awful. I'm actually kinda fascinated what fan editors will do with the 3-4 hours of footage they're putting out for blu-ray/dvd.
I could go on, but I have to go fuck your mom.
>>68995060
>Why is Batman a faggot?
>>68994773
nice try zack
>Why is Batman a faggot?
>>68994773
Easy
>Lois Lane
>Clark Kent
>Superman barely talks, zero charisma on screen
>Sparse establishing shots
>edited by adam latza
>trite, contradictory, and overwrought ideas spewed out like a teen who just read a book
Name one single thing wrong with this list
Unrealistic. Simple as that.
>>68995355
>trying to teach these butthurt trolls basic film theory for the 50000th time
Batman was a murderer
>>68995494
I guess you can say, some people don't like the Bat brand...
Here
>>68994855
It's most likely a tease of the man-bat, a batman villain
>>68995729
Thats a cool dick and balls
>>68994855
Not OP, but that dream was Bruce's own subconscious telling him that his own obsessions were destroying him, turning him into a monster, basically. Interestingly, the stained glass window behind him depicts an angel in red and blue as well.
Parents
For Bruce, it's all about losing his parents.
For Clark, it's about holding on to the parent you have left, while trying to become the man they hoped he'd someday be.
For Lex, it's about proving he's a bigger man than his abusive father ever thought he could be, at least that's my guess.
>>68995201
This isn't in the movie, but from what I understand, they're making it where Wonder Woman "enhances" weapons by simple virtue of wielding them, which sounds kind of cool to me. Out of her hands, it's just an ordinary sword.
Agreeing with what some have said already: Editing's really the biggest flaw in an otherwise great film. It's the perfect material for faneditors to tackle since there's so much potential there waiting to be brought out by a skilled hand.
>>68995911
>This isn't in the movie
Then it's the movie's fault for not explaining it. Also, still Superman could've launched Wonder Woman as projectile
>>68995793
was luthor telling the truth about his abusive father?
everytime luthor spoke to someone he mentioned his dad
>mentions his dad waving flowers at communists to the senators
>mentions his dad rooting through the garbage to read at the party
>mentions that his dad liked bourbon and the "magical thinking of orphan boys"(was he talking about himself or his dad?)
>mentions his dad's abuse to superman
Unless it really is his dad was abusive and he looks up to abusive/tyrannical figures now, I don't see a thread connecting them.
The bit about bruce's obsessions destroying him make sense. was the scene supposed to be implying that sense martha was the cause of it, she birthed a demon?
>>68995201
The nuke's a valid criticism, unless Supes reversed course during the explosion. Also, I'm not sure a space nuke would create a blast wave like we're used to seeing on earth, as there would be no superheated atmosphere to expand outward from it. It would just be a huge concentration of energy and radiation.
Plot was shit
Editing was horrid
Other than that it was alright
Editing
too long for an otherwise hour and a half movie
The batman vs superman fight was short as fuck
not much fighting too much talking this is a popcorn flick not a monologue you absolute twats
t
>>68994773
they can't
>>68992181
It was a really bad movie. Lex Luthor's motivation was unexplained and Superman was a completely boring character when he was not shown doing digital effects stuff.
Batman was not done well. A very weak reason for him to attack Superman when the real Batman would be much more intelligent and would not make such simplistic judgements.
>>68996074
Yeah, because the heroic thing to do is to risk the life of someone you just met, right?
Pacing
Editing
Disjointed plot
Some bad acting
Lack of characterization
Doomsday
>>68996285
bad acting?? from whom OP the cast's acting was pretty alright.
>>68994959
1. Because she knew it could kill Superman.
2. Because she knew the giant fucking KRYPTONIAN deformity could only be killed with kryptonite.
A pretend person in a movie is literally less retarded than you. Reflect on that.
>>68995439
>>trying to come up with a good response when he obviously can't
>>68996121
>was luthor telling the truth about his abusive father?
You know? Most likely. I don't think it's the prime mover for his character though.
>mentions that his dad liked bourbon and the "magical thinking of orphan boys"(was he talking about himself or his dad?)
Himself for keeping the place as "dear departed old daddy" left it.
>Unless it really is his dad was abusive and he looks up to abusive/tyrannical figures now, I don't see a thread connecting them.
I think it might have been more about him fixated on his father in a sort of imposter's syndrome sort of way. It was his dad's company and he was just the heir. It might have been him rankling at the fact that no matter what he did, he was always going to be compared to his father.
>>68996412
>>Because she knew the giant fucking KRYPTONIAN deformity could only be killed with kryptonite.
And how did she know it was Kryptonian? DId she have a radio
>Three hour movie titled Batman v Superman
>Batman v Superman fight is only ten minutes long
>Title can't even refer to clashing of ideals since Batman and Superman do the exact same shit. Batman's hate of Superman is justified (it's immature but at least there's some form of motivation) but Superman has genuinely, literally no reason to hate Batman.
>Superman doesn't have a character arc or any sort of personality. He doesn't even do anything besides save Lois until the last twenty minutes.
>Villain doesn't have any reason for what he's doing. Your headcanon doesn't count.
There's much, much more but this is just the basic stuff that the flick failed at.
>>68996412
>2. Because she knew the giant fucking KRYPTONIAN deformity could only be killed with kryptonite.
Nobody told her this, and she had no information to figure this out on her own.
>>68996384
Cavill was completely flat. I don't know if he was directed as such, but it wasn't very good. Jesse Eisenberg exhibits 0 nuance. Fishburne completely phoned it in.
>>68994773
Is it lack of comprehension when it takes outside sources to understand what's happening in front of you? This is the first movie that establishes the expanded universe of this brand, yet it did everything in its power to explain nothing about the visual things it introduced, and it introduced a hell of a lot of things.
>>68996412
>2. Because she knew the giant fucking KRYPTONIAN deformity could only be killed with kryptonite.
How did she learn this when she wasn't at the fight, Zack?
>>68996543
1. Lois sees massive energy signature spikes at Kryptonian ship, entire blocks lose power
2. Suddenyl giant monster appears
3. ?????????
Shes not a fucking idiot.
>>68996517
Because she saw Batman killing a severely weakened Superman with it, and put 2 and 2 together, because she's a pulitzer prize-winning journalist with brains.
>>68996479
It's really been bugging me that I don't see it, I pre-ordered the dc just to find out what type of thread connected the character. He does seem somewhat insecure about his dad
>it's his name on the marquee
but beyond he hated his dad, suffered abuse at his hands, and wanted to always be the most powerful person in his life, I don't see anything else there. I want it a bit more fleshed out
>>68996265
Considering she can clearly take anything doomsday dished out.. yeah fairly logical strategy but yes I get it. Superman and Batman were equally too stupid to do anything remotely strategic
>>68995764
No it's not. It's a dream showing how his mother's death affected him so heavily that he had to become batman, and how he can't stop being batman without it haunting him.
>>68996553
>Cavill was completely flat.
This. Clark Kent was so boring, all he did was listen to people and he barely said anything.
When he walked into the courtroom, he said nothing
When he was on the mountain with his dead dad, he just listened to him and hardly said anything.
Listened to his mom, hardly said anything.
The only reason people gave a shit about Superman was for the fight scenes. Did anyone give a fuck about Superman when he died? No. We all knew it was a fucking gimmick and he will be back the next movie, with the raising dirt on the coffin being any kind of surprise?? No, just a cheap gimmick to make people think the Doomsday fight had some kind of consequence when it had none.
>>68996771
He is handsome tho
>>68996602
.... she doesnt know it was kryptonian ship.. and kryptonians shes encountered were never giant monsters. And she is kinda a fucking idiot for throwing the thing that can kill superman into a random place in a random building where anyone can go stumble on it.
>>68996826
Dude's like a CW actor. He's attractive, he even looks like Superman, but I've seen better performances in fucking Power Rangers.
>>68994773
Explain the pot of piss.
>>68996602
>Shes not a fucking idiot
She did not see Doomsday come from the ship. TO HER ALL THE KRYPTONIANS ARE DEAD EXCEPT FOR CLARK, Why the fuck would would the spear be useful when the only thing at that point it could do is kill Superman?
The components to this film are A plus but the execution is garbage. It's like buying the most expensive, high-quality ingredients to bake a cake and making it in an easy bake oven.
>>68996479
>It might have been him rankling at the fact that no matter what he did, he was always going to be compared to his father.
Holy metanarrative, Batman! Lex's character in the movie repeatedly refers to his father, possibly resents constantly being compared to him.
Meanwhile, the audience compare Jesse's performance negatively to comics Lex and Hackman's and Spacey's performance, the character's spiritual "fathers."
I thought BvS was alright but for fucks sake it's neither the second coming of Christ nor the retarded the spawn of Satan. Why does everyone have to agree one way or the other?
>>68997013
Didn't she see the battle coming her way? Maybe she didn't even start out getting it for someone to use. Maybe she just thought it might be a good idea to go get it before it got lost amidst the rubble.
Sure, that leads to the question of why she didn't just keep it in her possession to begin with, but at the time, wasn't Superman still near it?
>>68994773
shit score.
superman having the personality of an ill tempered teenager.
thinking a nuke would kill superman for whatever fucking reason.
the fucking stupid dialogue
"are you a terrorist?"
"is the US government selling prototype weaponry to terrorists?
"it's unkillable." almost walked out at that one.
"the world only makes sense if you force it to."
"that is a good grip. you should not pick a fight with this person."
the "martha" bullshit.
lois throws the spear into the water for no really good reason and goes back to get it because they need it to kill doomsday despite not even knowing about his existence at that particular moment.
stupid dream inside a dream
stupid jump scare dream where a giant bat pops out of his parent's grave.
lex luthor's retarded plan that doesn't seem to have an endgame. also lex's autistic personality.
a jar of piss
superman's facial expression after the capital building blows up is NOT grief, shock, or emotional trauma of any kind.
i would go on but i've only seen the movie twice and the last time i saw it was almost 2 months ago.
>>68994898
Next Han Zimmer here.
The music was great. One of the best capeshit soundtracks in film.
>>68997380
>The music was great. One of the best capeshit soundtracks in film.
>>68997325
This. All of this.
Is that good enough for you, OP?
>>68997849
guy who posted that comment here. and that's just what i can remember and my short term memory isn't so good.
>>68996235
then reply what everyone's post here
>>68998364
Well you were literally spot-on with that list. Two unironic thumbs up to you, anon.
>>68996771
Cavill was clearly channeling a silent protagonist, like his favorite character character, Zelda
>>68997380
It was mediocre as fuck.
You guys ever wondered what an intricate scheme looks like from the outside when it falls apart? That's what you're saying doesn't make any sense.
It makes plenty of sense. You just have to put all the pieces together. The audience is the only perspective that gets them all. The first clue is them using a flamethrower as a murder weapon when a knife or a gun would do.
>>68996074
>>68996265
>>68996698
Why didn't Supes fly the spear to Wonder Woman and stand back while she jaunted up to Doomsday to poke him? Superman could even have held him bound with the lasso with her permission or whatever.
I get that extra-diegetically Superman had to die because Snyder was adapting a story from the comics, but did it have to seem so stupid? At least incapacitate Wonder Woman and Batman first. Have Doomsday shrug off the Kryptonite bullet so Batman is absolutely helpless. Just such a mess of a battle. At least Gadot let out some real screams and grunts, I was mildly impressed.
>>68996991
GRANNY'S PEACH TEA
>>68995793
Supes has the ideal parenting experience. Loved into adulthood both before and after death. Dad's dead, moms alive, both leave solid brand on him.
Bats is decent. On one hand, they taught him love. On other, he lost them at an immature age so he remembers them as a stolen opportunity rather than a fond memory. He's the middle ground of a failed parenting experience, only made more tragic because it was obviously shut a good parenthood prior to being destroyed.
Lex has two dead parents. The father he resents and the mother he doesn't remember. Exact opposite of Superman.
The role of the mother is developed in the film by Superman's commitment to his mom, Batman's longing for his mom, and Lex's total disconnect from her. Wonder Woman says "Boys are born without the natural inclination to share." This is a reflection of a mother's role. Lex is evil and selfish, Batman is good but selfish, Supes is genuinely selfless (good inherently), implied because of the mother figure.
Fatherhood isn't portrayed so well IMO in the movie but you have a general comparison between Pa Kent and Lex Sr. Nothing much to say regarding Bruce's dad. But suppose Alfred the substitute for a father and you can make a decent judgment. Supes had enough impact to live by his father's teachings after death, Bruce struggles to understand a father's lessons through Alfred because his father is dead, and Lex outright opposed his father's role.
The theme of parenthood conjoins with the secondary major theme of power. As parenthood is divided into motherhood and fatherhood, Power is divided into man vs God, and the nature of where power is vested unto a populace. The parents are naturally power bearers over children, and therefore these two themes can be joined without contrivance.
So that's the point of the parents, to explore the origins that created three people that embody how power is held. I guess think of it like Family Upbringing is the means and Power is the end.
>>68994773
Doomsday was wasted and looks like shit.
>>69000045
Let me put it this way. He maybe could have done that, but it's absolutely the last thing Superman would ever do - asking someone to put their own life at risk before his.
>>69000149
That's pretty good, anon.
>>69000173
We're not done with him yet, I don't think. He was becoming more and more Doomsday over the course of his short life, and I have a feeling he'll eventually be back.
>>69000355
>this thing sucks
>it's going to be better in another movie, I swear!
Doesn't help in the here and now, does it?
>>69000502
What's the matter, too deep for you?
>>68997325
>"that is a good grip. you should not pick a fight with this person."
Really Snyder?
>>69000385
No, it doesn't, but then I didn't think there was anything wrong with it.
>>68998649
..... or Link
>>69000512
For me, it just put the image of Lex pissing in a jar in my head, which I did not particularly care for. I wasn't sure if I was supposed to feel dread or find it ridiculous.
>>68994773
>name flaws about this movie but only under my extremely specific guidelines, which means to say "circlejerk about this inexcusable piece of shit because my affected psyche and underdeveloped frorntal lobe told me it was good despite everything going on against it" or I'll have a sperg attack and shitpost violently.
What a great idea for a thread. You should repost it every hour.
>>68994773
Continuity of the movie.
Motives and suspension of belief.
>I'll be as vague as possible so my weak arguments can't be refuted and be able to move the goalposts to my liking
>>69002007
see>>68997325
all of that is self explanatory.
>>69002007
>i dont like how x happened
>"how vague and stupid of a marvel drone to just not get it!"
Supermans powers not working when Convienant
>>69001851
How did Lex Luthor figure out Superman and Batman's identities?
>>68998788
>>69002526
It took me a while to figure out what bugged me so much about this guy, and it's not the uproarious laughter...it's that fucking hair gel.
I can't remember anyone over the age of thirteen wearing that much hair gel since the fucking early 90s...
And then he's got a beard. With hair gel. wtf. Hire a makeup artist, or borrow one from Marvel.
>>68994773
it takes a very grim and serious approach to a strong flying alien man fighting a guy who dresses like a bat and flies around in a secret plane
>>68997325
>lex luthor's retarded plan that doesn't seem to have an endgame.
Thanks. I was looking for an excuse to copypasta this one again...
The fucking thing the autists can't grasp (being autists) is that Luthor's approach changed SEVERAL times during the movie, as circumstances changed:
1. Work with Holly Hunter's Senator Finch to criminalize and control metahumans (a la Watchmen, The Incredibles). Collect data on Metas. Create incidents embarrassing Superman (like the African crisis, which spiraled out of control after Supes left).
BUT THEN...
2. Big Kryptonite chunk found. Hire thugs to bring chunk into country, at same time, court Finch to legally authorize this importation, which would grant him tacit Federal approval of his anti-metahuman schemes
BUT THEN...
3. Finch tells him to fuck off. At same time, he does obtain access to Zod's body and the Krypton scoutship. Continue illegal scheme to import Kryptonite, start working on a way to trick his way into the scoutship with Zod's fingerprints.
BUT THEN...
4. Batman swipes his Kryptonite. Accesses scoutship, starts researching Krypton, decides to create Doomsday. Blow up US Congress, killing Finch (Luthor fucking HATES being thwarted) and further humiliating Supes. Kidnaps Martha Kent, blackmails Supes into fighting Bats (who he knows has a Kryptonite advantage) while Doomsday preps. No matter who wins, Doomsday kills the victor.
BUT THEN...
5. Last minute change of heart* spares Supes, who teams with Bats and WW to defeat Doomsday at the cost of Supes life. Now in deep shit, Luthor (deleted scene, but presumably canon) contacts Darkseid before his capture. Taunts Bats from prison cell that DS is coming.
*DC continuity is within a metaverse, so in some timelines, Bats kills Supes. Not this one. Happy?
>>69003806
Why did he make Doomsday?
>>69003806
Why did he keep sending wayne those weird letters for months on end
>>69003806
Why does he keep shifting goalposts
>>69003336
>DC cuck impotently lashing out at unbeatable evans
This warrants even more laughing Evans, ironically.
>>69005111
>those trips
GOD BLESS
>>68995201
Wonder woman sword is useless. Its just a regular sword. In this incarnation WW imbues her magical power into whatever weaponsheis holding.
>>68996727
No I think it's probably a prophetic dream about how Man-Bat is actually living in the crypts of the Wayne Manor. It'd be stupid to have one dream be nothing but a metaphor and the other be an unambiguous psychic premonition of a possible future. It'd be even dumber to have one dream be a metaphor, one dream be a premonition of an alternate future, one dream be a parable about coping with the events of the previous movie, and one dream not actually be a dream but actually be some kind of real thing that happened and seems like a dream because he wakes up at the end, but then there's papers flying around. It would be really stupid to put 4 completely different dream motifs in the same movie. Nobody would ever think that would play. Particularly if you put 2 of the dreams on top of each other, so that the one really explic non-dream about Lois Lane doesn't fuck up the intentional ambiguity of the premonition dream, completely ruining the premonition dream's thematic logical connection to the MARTHA plot pivot at the end. Nobody would be that fucking stupid to muddy up their fucking movie like that.
>>68996256
No. You didnt get Lex which is different to it was unexplained. You need to read between lines but everything is there. You were waiting for the Bond monologue explaining everything. Lex talking to Clark was nust a missdirection btw.
>>69004227
To kill Superman when he kills Batman. Then he would kill Doomsday with the Justice League. He even prepared Brand logos for each one of them.
>>69003336
>Trying to pic a flaw in based Evans
Fuckn hilarious.
>>68994855
Batman is gay for Superman
In that dream, the stained glass angel is Superman colored. Why is he projecting all this hatred on Superman, then dreaming about him being an angel?
The grotesque Bat monster emerging from his mother's grave is embodiment of repressed gay feelings
>>69005406
I don't think the Justice League would happen without Batman or Superman.
Also, they might not even be able to take him.
>>68994773
Batman is a murderer and doesn't repent by the end of the movie.
>>68994773
1. Forced, clumsy symbolism that managed to be more hamfisted than Cliffnotes.
2. Horrible special effects and cinematography.
3. It was too easy to follow, while trying too hard to be deep and complex. And despite the fact that it should've been a kid's movie, it was not aimed at children.
>>69005543
He's a careless manslaughterer
He shot the bottom out that car. "Oh you died when it flipped over and I crashed into it? Not my problem cocksucker!"
In the batplane, he exploded the area next to those goons. "Oh you died in that nearby explosion, learn to duck and cover faggot!"
"Oh wow I came through that wall and decapitated a dude? What am sposed to have xray vision on my car, fuck off liberal!"
It's all Frank Miller. Snyder is a Miller fanboy.
>>68994773
The Batman investigation of The White Portuguese is built on flawed, ambiguous logic that doesn't really make sense when you think about it. It's revealed that the only reason he was investigating the White Portuguese was because he knew it had Kryptonite that he knew could hurt Superman. But he didn't know that the White Portuguese was a ship and he had no idea that Lex Corp was involved. How did he, without knowing about Lex Corp, know about the secret discovery, conducted by Lex Corp, that Kryptonite could cut Zod's body?
Lex Luthor's blowing up congress was completely retarded. He already had access to the ship. He already had Zod's body. He had already smuggled the fucking Kryptonite that the bill would allow him to import. The only implied reasons he did it was that the Senator insulted him by rejecting the bill he didn't need and he wanted to get payback, and/or that he wanted to turn the public against Superman. The problem with these 2 motivations is they contradict each other. What if the Senator HADN'T of rejected him? Would he have still blown up congress to give Superman bad PR, completely sabotaging the bill? The idea that it was all designed to hurt Superman's public image is one that seemingly implies that the entire African bullet frame job dogshit was all Part of the Plan to get Superman there to blow him up. But the idea that he was mad at the Senator is when that implies that he made an impulsive, emotional decision. The complete lack of reward for Lex, compared to the risk he was taking, makes his character fucking retarded.
The Lois Lane bullet investigation could have been entirely cut out of the film. We, the audience, already know Lex was behind it. We see his henchman there. So we watch 4 FUCKING SCENES between Lois and Some Fucking General talk about a goddamn bullet... and that's it. It has nothing to do with the rest of the story.
>>69005641
It's also retarded because apparently Lex Luthor knows Supes's secret identity
So if he really wanted to ruin his public image, why not just expose him?
>>68994773
>Op swallowed granny's peach tea til the last drop.
>>68995063
nice try, that sub is a marvelite jerkoff where liking dc is not allowed
Copying and pasting from another thread...
Speaking only for myself, BvS had a disgusting script, and the editing was also atrocious. These two were the biggest factors for me.
Notice Lex asking for permission to access the Kryptonian ship. He is wearing a polo shirt, some light blue suit with black-and-red sneakers. He enters, does his thing.
Roughly half an hour later, after the guy giving him access has been blown up and after he has the meeting at his home with the Senator, and after the explosion,, and after another dinner party, all of which had costume changes, he returns to the Kryptonian ship days later. The instant he enters the ship, he is back in the suit/polo/sneakers combo.
This is horrible. Clearly someone felt the Doomsday plot needed to be spaced out across the film a little better, so they just cut a scene in half and stuck the latter half elsewhere without regard for continuity or consequence. Now, this is both an issue with the script and the editing. It should've been rectified in the writing stage and when it wasn't, it shouldn't have been Frankensteined in the editing.
Another issue with the writing is Wonder Woman being added to the film as an afterthought. She has dialogue with Bruce, and only Bruce. Not one line is uttered to a single character except for him, because someone's sole job was to integrate her into the script and did so only by having her meet him at a couple of parties before appearing at the end.
And the editing was bad not just in terms of continuity but also in terms of pacing. This is actually the sequence of events that occurs partway through the movie:
(to be put in another post because of length)
>>68996991
>standing on box
>still shorter than Affleck
>>69005783
This is actually the sequence of events that occurs partway through the movie:
>Luthor tells Superman that if he flies anywhere except to Batman, Martha will die
>Superman agrees to fight Batman
>Superman flies to Lois and tells her he is going to fight Batman
>Lois gets in a taxi to the Daily Planet
>We see Martha in a warehouse
>Lois arrives at Daily Planet and gains permission to use a helicopter
>Wonder Woman sits at home and gets an email from Batman, watches clips of Cyborg, Flash and Aquaman
>Superman arrives at Batman's location
What the fuck is that shit? Disgusting effort, cutting that shit together.
See, the complaints about tone, and theme, and muh-Batman-shouldn't-kill, I agree are unfounded. Childish nonsense. But the movie itself is so poorly constructed, both preproduction and postproduction that you simply cannot reasonably call it a well-made movie with a straight face. Cool story? Sure, maybe. Cool concepts? Certainly. But a good movie? Fucking ridiculous.
3/10 movie. It is bad.
>>69005797
idk why i thought you were talking about snyder
>>68994773
>its audience fault
Is BvS is good a meme just like the prequels are good is a meme?
Do you reckon one of Zack's friends and him were hanging out, and the conversation went...
>I mean I've put everything in this fight, but I want some definitive crushing blow Batman gets on Superman
>Have you thrown in the kitchen sink?
>What?
>Have you thrown into the scene everything and the kitchen sink?
>I... there's no sink.
>Zack, it's just an expression.
>No, no... I need to use a sink.
>>69005915
Yes.
It's astounding how similar those two meemees are.
>>69005915
Yes. But all three prequels are better than BvS, and that's the truth.
>>69005935
>/tv/: if it's popular we hate it, if it's terrible and unpopular it's 10/10 you didn't get it
>>69005969
Except for Deadpool. Pretty much everyone just accepts that one as the one /tv/ was wrong about.
Any posts to the contrary are usually incredibly obvious trolls or idiots typing in broken sentences.
So how did Lex Luthor, a rich, white man who embodies the 1 % and hates immigrants, get turned into a millennial "forward thinker" who's angry at the world because his daddy beat him? Is Snyder trying to tell us something about what he thinks of the newest generation?
>>68994773
>>69005641
The flash time travel tease completely ruined the effect and the point of the premonition dream that preceded it. Left ambiguous, Superman saying "She was all I had, and you took her away from me" informs the MARTHA plot pivot in the third act. Batman, about to attempt to kill Superman, realizes he may be the cause the nightmare future he saw in the dream, by taking away Superman's mom and turning him bad like Batman had become. Batman realizes that he's the antagonist. But all of that doesn't play because instead, mid production, they decided to add a fucking addendum "dream" where the fucking Flash screams about Lois goddamn Lang. The Flash tease for the future movie ruined the dream for the present movie.
The Pa Kent dream should have been in the first act, or should have been deleted. It's clearly talking about the events of the previous movie. So why in the fuck is it in the third act of the present movie? Particularly when it doesn't really inform shit about anything that fucking happens. If you put it up front, you're establishing the theme that Clark is all fucked up about what happened with Zod right at the beginning. It informs everything that happens after it. The entire implied arc for Superman is that he's dealing with the guilt of the Metropolis shit, and at the end is forced to sacrifice himself fighting the literal personified monster of the thing he feels guilty about. You gotta incept the audience with the fucking theme and characterization early, not fucking 15 minutes before the endgame.
Lex shouldn't have been revealed until the party. He shouldn't have gotten access to the ship until after exploded congress. Exploding congress should have been the cause of action that allows him to get access. Gives reason for the treason, and shows how far he's willing to go to get what he wants.
>>69005922
this is cringeworthy, yet entirely plausible.
How did Batman and Lex execute their plan in sync? Bruce get's ready to fight and Lex blackmails Supes into fighting. All on the same night? Also what a great way to set up a fight, have one character not wanting to fight and the audience asking questions.
>>69006138
Even the "Martha" scene could have been handled better
Just have a scene of Batman doing his research on Clark Kent, commenting that he's a total nobody, and maybe a remark about "oh, what a coincidence, his mother is named Martha too." Then later on, when Superman says "Martha," instead of having a mental breakdown, Batman could just put 2 and 2 together, figure out Clark's identity, and help Superman to his feet, instead of having a dumb scene where Lois has to explain(to the audience) that Clark and Bruce's mothers had the same name
Batman, being a character who is established as not killing anyone ever (at least the current, mainstream version of the character) being so kill happy WITHOUT a reason given. Yes, yes, I know, this is post the robin and crowbar incident. One line, "after jason, things had to change" would have worked for me.
Or, even better. Have him only want to kill superman. Bats is flexible with his one rule. In Arkham Knight to get Ivy to do what he wants he threatens to burn down every plant in gotham, and he means it. In Begins just because he won't kill you, he doesn't have to save you. In Dark Knight Returns or Under The Red Hood he cripples people. He'll bend his rule, he'll use it as a weapon to make you wish he HAD killed you after you can't walk again. So, if he had just not shot all those people, and then said something along the lines of "I don't kill humans, but you're an alien. You have no right to life in my eyes" or something, then I'd have been happy. I think audiences would have too, with either of these options.
>>68994773
>muh Martha
>muh Flash invading your dreams or whatever
>the titular fight lasting 5 minutes
>Batman using a minigun to kill baddies who pose no threat to anyone and may just be doing their jobs guarding the truck
>"Quick, we need to establish our next movie as fast as possible. Show the audience all these characters they should care about but ultimately won't."
>>68994773
1. Terrible narrative
2. Terrible character development
3. Badly shot
>>69005537
Lex can recover the kryptonite from dead Batman. His league would have no issues. Specially with Flash.
>>69005543
Like the previous 10 movies.
>>69005694
Batman never tried to. He believes Superman is inhuman. He doesnt believe he has a secret identity. Bruce reverse roles with Lex comparedto the comics.
>>69006022
Yes, someone please just try and answer this.
This movie has a better fight between Batman and Superman than BvS does
>>68994773
>>69006138
Superman apparently accidentally preventing Batman from getting the Kryptonite in the convoy attack sequence was stupid. That chase sequence could have been entirely cut from the film and NOTHING would have changed. There was no consequence for Batman not getting the Kryptonite, there was no consequence for Superman letting Lex have Kryptonite. He just steals it off camera later. Batman kills like 15 random security contractors FOR NO FUCKING REASON.
The MARTHA plot pivot could have worked. It didn't. But in capable hands I think it could have played. But it didn't. Instead we had dipshit batman getting triggered and dipshit Superman calling Ma Kent MARTHA awkwardly. Batman yells WHY DID YOU SAY THAT NAME?!?! a comical amount of times also.
Everything that happens to the spear after Batman throws it down IS RETARDED. A: He's captain contingency plan, it's out of character for him to leave that there. B: The awkwardly cutaway where Lois throws it into the inexplicable industrial building lake was shit. C: There is no exposition to explain why Lois knows to go back and get it after we just watched her throw it away. D: She almost drowns. E: Superman almost drowns. F: MUH 5th SUPERMAN BAPTISM IN 2 MOVIES. G: MUH KING ARTHUR. It's like a belligerent comedy of errors.
The ending is shit. After Supes dies there is like 6 different things the movie wants to do, and it's edited in almost the worst way possible. It's like they took a Nolan ending montage where multiple things cross cut and the sequence crescendos to a satisfying summation of the thematic journey and a powerful final image. It's like they took that, took it apart, laid out all the piece end to end, and called it a day. Plus the DINGDINGDING dogshit made no sense because they cut out everything that explained what the fuck Lex was talking about.
Opening on the dead parents dream with the stupid fucking poem was garbage.
>>69006391
>Batman never tried to. He believes Superman is inhuman.
But Batman would have certainly done his research on Clark Kent, who he knows to be human, because Batman is a thorough motherfucker like that
>>69006261
added more >>69006535 about it. I'm planning a re-edit when an HD rip comes out, and I'm going to have it be so that the prophetic dream is a recurring thing. And the dead parents dream isn't what opens the movie. I'm going to try and make the movie more episodic, where Batman gets the first ~20 minutes without cutting away. In one long sequence establish the dead parents shit by doling it all out between him investigating.
So in the first 20 minutes of the movie, with no interruption, we are clearly presented a sequence of events that explicitly establish that
A: the dead parents and the bats in the well made him batman. Martha is repeated a lot.
B: the Zod attack on Metropolis is a parallel event in his psyche, they were both instances of him losing his "family," and they are both defining, connected motivations for his rage.
C: He's having a recurring prophetic dream about a post-apocalyptic future run by Superman. This dream is doled out along with snippets of the Man-Bat dream and the dead parents dream in a kind of stream of conscious presentation that establishes how obsessed he is when he's not "on the hunt." Kind of a lucid dream feel as we watch this obsessive crazy person do work. Follow him all the way to the party.
Then do a Lex episode of basically the entire Senator build up. Cross cut his scenes with the imagery from the Superman hero montage. Use different music to make him seem terrifying. Build up Superman as this scary dehumanized alien.
Then idk I want to see about how the movie could work without really humanizing Superman at all until right before he appears before congress. Add a lot of dramatic irony having him be presented as a monster from 2 POV's for the first 50 minutes, then show his process as he decides to do the right thing and appear before congress, and then he gets goddamn exploded. After the explosion there are no more Clark or superman scenes from his POV until after the Martha plot pivot.
>>68994773
Having an explanation and intention doesn't automatically excuse something from bad execution. You could go on and on about any movie and talk about what the director was TRYING to do, but it doesn't mean they succeeded.
>>68994773
Wonder-Woman.
>>69007198
no one cares
>>68994773
It's literally a two and a half hour trailer for the next six DC movies. Making a good movie was never even their intention.
Defend this shameless shilling all you want, it's your money.
>>68994773
the audience, as this thread has proven
>>69006391
>Lex can recover the kryptonite from dead Batman. His league would have no issues. Specially with Flash.
And when exactly was he going to assemble the league again? After Doomsday completely sploded Metropolis? We talking days? Weeks?
And why would they join the obvious lunatic that clearly released the monster in the first place and would undoubtably be the prime suspect for exploding congress?
I've seen the "Lex's JLA plans" theory posted a few times, and other than the fact that WB cough I mean Lex had fucking graphic designed logos for them, there IS ZERO EVIDENCE AT ALL THAT HE WAS PLANNING ON DOING THAT. HE EXPLICITLY SET OUT TO KILL BATMAN AND THEN SUPERMAN. HE WAS COMPLETELY SURPRISED WHEN IT TURNED OUT THAT BATMAN DIDN'T KILL SUPERMAN. HE SPENT THE ENTIRE MOVIE TRYING TO KILL PEOPLE THAT WERE MORE SPECIAL THAN HIM.
>Like the previous 10 movies.
In the TDK trilogy, it's an EXPLICIT point that he only kills when he absolutely has to. TDK is EXPLICITLY about his "one rule" and the lengths the Joker goes to force him to break it. Batman killing Dent had game-changing repercussions and directly caused the events that led to the societal conditions that led to TDKR happening. There's nowhere where Batman straight up kills like 15 henchman for LITERALLY NO REASON in a completely pointless chase scene.
>He doesnt believe he has a secret identity.
According to nothing presented in the actual movie.
>Bruce reverse roles with Lex comparedto the comics.
Not really.
>>68994773
>BATMAN VS SUPERMAN!
>Only one fight between them in the whole film
>>69007333
Cool. Not really typing that shit out for you tbphwyf. Taking notes with the possibility for feedback on an archived forum that I can reference when the hdrip comes out and I'm working on the edit script. Not everyone here is a know-nothing hack faggot. Some people may actually be interested in actually working on and studying movies.
Thanks for your input though nigger
>Lex uses his DNA to help create Doomsday
>the first thing Doomsday does when he wakes up is try to kill Lex, who is only saved by Superman, who Lex is trying to kill
What a stupid fucking movie
>>69003806
>Lex reveals in a speech to Superman that he's been manipulating Batman by sending him back the checks meant for that one guy with YOU LET YOUR FAMILY DIE written on them for the past two years to get him to hate Superman
>Those letters didn't even reach Batman because the secretary never gave them to him until a complete contrivance where Batman specifically asks for them for no reason before the courtroom blows up
>But whatever, it doesn't matter that Lex's manipulation didn't really do anything and the editing makes Lex look like a fucking idiot, Batman still hates Superman anyway in line with Lex's plan
>Lex is going to pit Batman against Superman and have Batman kill Superman
>But he never once tries to collaborate with Batman despite them both being super wealthy, super smart guys who hate Superman; they have the exact same goals
>And it's not like Batman ever suspected Lex of anything since Batman's weird ass backwards hunt for the White Portuguese (Who was the initial lead on the super secret space mineral that only one corporation has access to where that one corporation is somehow not known or implicated?) was the first time he ever suspected Lex of anything shady
>Lex finds Kryptonite, the tool Batman needs to fight Superman, and Lex still doesn't approach Batman with a cooperation offer, Batman has to steal it from him
>But Lex was already in the process of making Doomsday. He was done already by the time Superman showed up to say they Batman wasn't dead and they were working together
Regardless of Lex's retarded scheme, this movie was a fucking mess and you should feel terrible defending it.
>>69007795
>movie was a mess and you should feel terrible defending it
why? it's obvious that Warner told Zack to load it up with detail, like a burrito with all the toppings, in a desperate bid to catch up to Marvel. A big-budget movie is not like an oil painting, where one artist has complete control of the work's outcome - it's a collaborative effort between many parities, and it's ok to like and defend a flawed film because of that very fact.
>>69005922
>hurr, why the kitchen sink?
>>69006154
>durr, no possible good reason for it
Sure there is. Snyder is dropping the audience a hint that he knows the movie is stuffed to overflowing with plot elements, but that he is a hired hand, and is just doing what he is told.
>>68994835
Underrated post
This is the only correct answer
>>69007445
This
Title was the main issue
>>69008547
>it's obvious that Warner told Zack to load it up with detail, like a burrito with all the toppings
BULLSHIT. All the shoved in garbage was Snyder's doing.
>A big-budget movie is not like an oil painting
Tell that to the guy that crammed in as many Renaissance painting references as possible.
>where one artist has complete control of the work's outcome
In the case of BvS, that is exactly what happened. Nobody told him what to cut. No producer would have kept all the stupid fucking dreams and go-nowhere plot distractions while cutting out story-critical shit for time. Stop trying to defend Snyder. This was his doing. The producer was his enabler fucking wife.
>and it's ok to like and defend a flawed film because of that very fact.
It's NOT okay to defend it "because of that very fact." ALL fucking movies are a collaboration, and most of them aren't anywhere near as incompetently directed.
>hurr, why the kitchen sink?
Because it's a movie that spends fucking 2 hours acting pretentious and demanding of the audience, aspiring to be more than a fucking capeshit movie, and then you have Batman melodramatically hitting Superman with a fucking sink. It's schlock garbage with absolutely no self awareness.
>Snyder is dropping the audience a hint that he knows the movie is stuffed to overflowing with plot elements, but that he is a hired hand,
You're fucking retarded. And completely wrong. Listen to and read his interviews. He's the closest thing DC has to a Kevin Fiege creative director type for their expanded universe. This is all Snyder's doing.
The context for Batman's hatred of Superman is capeshit as a whole.
In MCU, regular non-powered humans are often seen/treated as a kind of a cattle, and any resistance they show toward super-powered "heroes" and the inevitable damage (whether rightly or wrongly) they inflict on society as whole, is brushed off a knowing wink to the audience, and the implication that regular human opposition to the super-powered is a kind of irrational bigotry akin to racism (whatever that means).
This BvS movie is the first capeshit in recent memory where the human grievance against super powered chaos is given a rational and sympathetic basis - but you'd never know that from the reviews and commentary about the movie. This is just another facet of Snyder's vision that has been swept under the carpet here.
1 its for kids
2 its for kids
3 its for kids
>>69012023
>Human cost
A nice theme handled far better in Civil War
>>69012023
>is given a rational and sympathetic basis
By showing NANCY GRACE TALKING SHIT FOR 15 SECONDS.
BY SHOWING PEOPLE IRRATIONALLY APPARENTLY BLAMING SUPERMAN FOR THE OBVIOUS SUICIDE BOMB BY THE GUY THAT HATED SUPERMAN.
>>68996074
> he could've done that, she could've done that, they could've done that
The more I think about it, it's more like our real lives. once we have enough experience in life, we can think we could've redone our past in some other way. someone could then ask you as well - "why didn;t you do it that way?"
same thing here.. they "could've" done many more logical things, but at the spur of the moment, things just happen. esp. when you are fighting an unkillable monster. decisions the characters take are their decisions... why do you think he should've done what you expect him to do?
>>69007795
>>But he never once tries to collaborate with Batman despite them both being super wealthy, super smart guys who hate Superman; they have the exact same goals
You're right on all counts except for this one. Lex invited Wayne to his R&D specifically to research a way to kill Superman.
>>68997380
Nah it was just recycled from MoS's fantastic soundtrack which left me feeling a bit ripped off. Do a mostly original score instead of playing the same shit from the last movie.
>>69013063
> specifically
That's a funny way of saying "possibly"
>>69013063
That wasn'lt even hinted.
>people are STILL calling this movie deep and saying that people just 'didn't get it'
>a movie about a CGI cave troll fighting people in tights with lasers
I really hope the DCEU just fucking crashes and burns at this point. I WANT it to fail so that these people can return to the pits from which they crawled.
>>68996533
>superman has genuinely, literally no reason to hate Batman.
Spoken exactly like someone who hasn't actually seen the movie.
It's about an alien in spandex fighting a man dressed as a bat.
I'd fuck Amy Adams throat.
>>69013310
Why, because he's administering justice on his own terms and in a way that's dangerous to those involved?
Kind of like... what Superman does?
The biggest joke of the whole movie is the opening scene, and that people genuinely thought Snyder was 'clever' for 'thinking' of the consequences on the previous movie.
What actually happened was audiences pointed out his glaring mistake and he rectified it. Then towards the end they literally mention that the place they're fighting in has been evacuated.
You want an example of this done right? The Avengers. You see them saving people, getting them out of the line of fire. Say what you want about Marvel but they get the HERO part of superhero right. BvS was two angsty teens slapping each other for a bit.
>>69013533
Don't be ridiculous anon. It's about a Jesus Alien in spandex. It's not some pleb shit.
>>68994773
JEW
E
W
>>68995201
>- Wonderwoman sword can hurt Doomsday
Well it's a wonderwoman she enhances her weaponry
>>68995201
>- Superman could've borrowed her sword and stab Doomsday right away
Again, he can't into Wonder Woman magic
>- After all this, why can't Superman just throw the fucking spear like a projectile
Throwing a spear at someone who can dodge or catch it and then being killed by it, smart move marvelboy. It's not a wild animal, it's definitely a better plan to just stab it with it rather than throwing your weapon away.
>>69006224
>>68999191
Here's a workable plan for Lex that uses all the pieces we're given except the bullets, which still don't make sense to me. It does work on the assumption that Lex has the capacity to surveil Lois, Martha, and Bruce.
1) Make sure the kryptonite ends up in Bruce's hands in a way that lets Lex to appear blameless.
2) Keep assets in place tailing Martha and Lois, waiting for Bruce to complete his preparations and rig up his kill zone.
3) Use Lois to bring you Clark.
4) Blackmail Clark with Martha, being sure to include the burning detail because you're a smart, evil asshole that likes your victims to know you fucked them when it's too late for them to do anything about it.
5) Make your way to the scout ship. Patiently wait for Clark to figure out where you are and arrive with Bruce's head.
6) Once he arrives, call your mercs and ask them for Martha's location. They spit back a pre-arranged, bogus location(the farther away the better) and off Clark goes to get her.
7) Retrieve Bruce's unused kryptonite weaponry.
8) Have your hired guns burn Martha and immediately depart to find Lois. You could have even had a fake cab waiting at the base of your tower(would be interesting to watch that scene again for clues).
9) Set Doomsday on a time release and get the hell out of Dodge. Or instruct it to release Doomsday when next someone enters the genesis chamber, making the reasonably safe assumption that it will be Clark.
10) Clark returns empty-handed to be confronted with Doomsday's rampage.
11) While the battle rages, you contact Senator Jolly Rancher and have him dispatch troops to attempt contact with Diana, the Flash, and Cyborg(Aquaman probably isn't all that easy to track down). Gather them all in a safe location.
>>69013537
>>69013310
For me it was like Clark felt that his arrival on the planet was overshadowing other things of interest, like Perry said no one cares about the Batman anymore, not when aliens exist and one of them is among us (and apparently a ticking time bomb according to some).
It's honestly poorly handled because if the idea of Superman not liking Batman's methods is true, it's completely ruined by him slamming terrorists through walls in the opening in the movie with a smirk on his face, and then when he punts Batman off the road and somehow he managed to miss the huge firefight that just occurred a few minutes earlier, he doesn't even care about who or why Batman was chasing them, just "fuck off, Batman" and flies off?
>>69013799
12) Start laying the groundwork for your cover story where Clark has become dangerously unhinged and homicidal, citing his apparently unprovoked confrontation and murder of Bruce, leaving the burned corpses of Martha and Lois for later. As the only living witness to it all besides Clark, you can pretty much spin it any way you want to, even making it Clark who "did something" in the genesis chamber that created Doomsday.
As presented, you don't have to have the Justice League just immediately form. It just has to come together while either Clark is a fugitive having killed Doomsday, or Doomsday's on a destructive rampage, having killed Clark. Lex doesn't care how many people die as long as there are enough left alive to praise him for having the foresight to bring the kryptonite in and put together a team that can stop the "alien threat.'
I'm waiting to see more scenes where Clark's hearing comes into play, because so far, they haven't done anything that makes it seem nearly as OP as it's frequently been presented. At the beginning, we see Lex's mercs react to Clark's presence before he even arrives, which tells me that Lex has figured out that he has some sort of "response radius," as being able to hear across a continent still doesn't make sound travel any faster. In other words if Clark can stand on the east coast of the U,S.and hear a gunshot on the west coast, it still means that the bullet has reached its target before he's even heard it.
>>68994835
>Editing
Worst meme ever
>>69013799
>>69014110
Hell, in that scenario, you could almost even claim to have been working with Bruce all along and paint him as being even crazier:
>>69007198
Stop. You're an idiot.
>>69014676
In most places that might be discouraging, but in a 2016 /tv/ BvS apologist thread that might as well be confirmation to continue.
>>68994773
>name a flaw
>but don't name these flaws
>>68994773
so you admit it's flawed?
>>68994773
I liked it a lot, but there were some issues for starters the whole you said Martha now I'm gonna stop killing u and be bffs which btw why didn't u just tell me that the whole time instead of smashing me thru walls. Also I could not fucking stand Amy Adams in that movie.
