BvS/DCEU discussion thread
Do not engage on company wars.
Do not answer to shitposters.
Let's talk about the contents of the movie.
>>68952646
Delete this
The more I think about this movie, the more I like it. I liked a superhero film that wanted to be more.
>>68952646
>muh biblical allusions
Movie is shit, story is shit, sack snyder is shit.
Its fucking mind boggling how people are actually defending this clusterfuck of a movie
8/10 for me
I can't wait for the extra 2 hour cut
>>68926032
>>68926142
>>68926193
>>68926240
>>68926294
>>68926340
>>68926395
>>68926431
>>68926481
>A reading from the Acts of Man of Steel
>Scene 2:13: Selected passages
>3 And I heard a loud voice from the cinema saying, "Look! Snyder's dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and Snyder himself will be with them and be their saviour.
>4 He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more repetitive or safe or cheap comedy or quips, for the old order of Marvel movies has passed away."
>13 And so they hated him, and persecuted him. The critics crucified him and threw rotten tomatoes at him.
>14 But he persevered and gained strength from the audience, and so we will persevere.
>15 And he stands by the right side of the spirit of Kino, and draws inspiration from it, and so will his followers.
>22 During the filming of the port battle at Batman v Superman, Snyder was found wandering along the port.
>23 In one of such instances he walked on water while carrying an IMAX camera on one hand, which greatly terrified his cast and crew at that time.
>24 Affleck, out of fear, shouted "Snyder, if it is you, tell me to come to the water!"
>25 "Come". Snyder said.
>26 Affleck stepped on the water and walked for a few feet but then sank. He cried out "Snyder, hast thou forsaken me? Save me, oh dear brother!"
>27 Immediately Snyder reached out his hand and caught him.
>28 Snyder exclaimed, "Bin Muhammad Afflecki, why did you doubt?"
>29 And so the heretic one vowed to spread the word.
The movie sucked. Accept it already
You tried this earlier and last night OP, DC's films suck.
Marvels are dumb but enjoyable and you get their characters.
I cant stand Thor's comics for the most part and his films are my least favorite but i get who he is and why he does what he does in those movies.
>>68952646
>DAMAGE CONTROL thread
FTFY
Future Kino Stars
>>68953541
Only it didn't. I have yet to find someone who can give a coherent reason as to why it "sucked"
>>68953797
This must be your first day to the internet and well...earth too.
Welcome and prepare to get shit on.
First might I ask what is so good about it?
Why isnt it as bad as the whole world says it is?
And say one memorable quote.
>its another "let's talk about BvS but pls no criticism pls episode.
God I hate these ones.
>>68953759
Look at Ben.
He knew.
>>68954118
Because Ben is a emotionally stunted sensitive manchild that's lived off his pristine looks, chin and height
Thats why Kevin stopped freinding him
>>68953901
Good
>batman/ Bruce Wayne
>lex Luthor
>the story
>the fight scenes
>Alfred
>superman
Bad
>choppy editing
>forced JUSTice league tie in
Quotes without looking it up
>if God is good he can't be all powerful, if he's all powerful he can't be good
>>I bet your parents taught you that you mean something, that you're here for a reason. My parents taught me a different lesson, dying in the gutter for no reason at all... They taught me the world only makes sense if you force it to.
>Next time they shine your light in the sky, don't go to it. The Bat is dead. Bury it. Consider this mercy.
looking up
> See, what we call God depends upon our tribe, Clark Joe, 'cause God is tribal; God takes sides! No man in the sky intervened when I was a boy to deliver me from daddy's fist and abominations.
>You're not brave... men are brave. You say that you want to help people, but you can't feel their pain... their mortality... it's time you learn what it means to be a man.
>>68954247
God... It sounds even worse when you write it out.
The first is just a regurgitation verbatim of the problem of evil, the second is ripped straight from the comic, the third is literally memetier, the fourth is a painfully ham fisted way of "foreshadowing" doomsday despite the word choice being wholly unsuitable.
The last one is actually good. I actually remembered it, and assume its original.
>>68952646
Hello brothers!
Here's some stuff I put together on all of Pa Kent's scenes coming up in subsequent posts. Please feel free to offer impressive, criticisms, and suggestions.
>>68954797
Over the course of the film, we are treated to multiple flashbacks of Clark's childhood. It is my belief that these scenes are designed to not only inform Clark's current thoughts, but also to elicit an emotional response from the audience that echoes a child's changing perceptions of their parents.
Maybe
This flashback sets the tone for the scenes as a whole and the message it carries for the audience applies to all the scenes that follow. Jonathon listens to Pete Ross's mother talking to Martha about what Clark did being an "act of God." Jonathon leaves the house to find and talk to Clark. Clark asks him if he shouldn't have saved those kids, to which Jonathon replies, "Maybe?" This strikes any viewer familiar with Jonathon's character as a jarring departure, but we see immediately afterward that Clark himself didn't at that point know his own origins. Jonathon then proceeds to talk to him about the impact he'll have on the world and his words inform the wisdom of his previous statement. It's important to note that the same chamber that contains Clark's ship also contains a vast array of books and corkboards covered with various articles and maps, indicating that Jonathon's been doing a lot of "homework" in regards to Clark and serves as an early visual clue to a hidden wisdom.
The emotional response it elicits from a viewer is similar to the moment a child first realizes that their parents are not the idealized beings of their childhood and bespeaks a growing maturity within the child.
This scene serves as the primer for examining the flashbacks as a continuum. This pattern applies to all subsequent scenes insofar as they present the audience with the same growing understanding that Clark himself experiences with each proceeding scene informing the previous scenes, speaking to Clark's current thoughts and actions, and revealing his changing perspectives on the wisdom and lessons of his father.
>>68952646
Carefully explaining to you why this movie is miserable isn't shitposting. It's more of an intervention because we care about your mental well being.
>>68954247
>lex luthor
>good
Wow, if you liked the casting while everyone says its shit then you probably have brain damage
>>68954963
Everyone saying he's shit doesn't make it so. Why did YOU think he was shit
His mannerisms were grating I'll admit but he was a very effective villain
>>68954915
Tornado
Here we see Clark as a teenager having an argument with his parents, and with typical teenage thoughtlessness, Clark says, "You're not even my dad. You're just some guy that found me in a field." You can see from his change in demeanor that he immediately regrets saying it, but Jonathon forges ahead, apparently wanting to discuss what Clark thinks would be "something useful" to do with his life, but it is at this point that the tornado interrupts them.
As they head for the "safety" of the underpass, we see Jonathon encouraging people to abandon their cars and head for safety, stopping to help a mother with a young child. When they realize they've left behind their family pet, Clark volunteers to go back, but Jonathon instead hands him the child and tells him to go with the others.
Jonathon's decisions in this scene leave a tremendous negative impression on the first viewing for most people, and I am most certainly among them, but it also leaves the viewer with some lingering tension with his character and leads one to question the wisdom of the character, but it's important to remember that all Jonathon could do was *tell* Clark not to risk exposing himself. The only person who can stop Clark is Clark himself, and he does. Those are the actions of a good child obeying their parent, a good son respecting the wishes of his father. They're not, however, the actions of a good *man* making his own decisions, and certainly not the actions of a man ready to face the world as Superman.
The typical incredulous reaction and accompanying emotional response one experiences on first viewing this scene is similar to the attitudes of an adolescent toward their parents - rebellious and questioning the wisdom of their elders.
>>68955039
Bully Scene
Jonathon's lines here are pure Pa Kent in all its glory, counseling Clark against letting violence be his go-to solution to a problem and telling Clark that he needs to decide what kind of man he wants to be, because, in his words, "good man or bad man, that man's going to change the world."
As stated earlier, when viewed in the order they're presented, this scene informs Jonathon's earlier actions. He wants Clark to be a good man, and he wants to give him time to become that man, but most importantly, he wants it to be Clark's own decision, not choices he makes simply because they're the choices he believes others want him to make.
This scene invites the viewer to reevaluate Jonathon's earlier decisions and statements. The wisdom of his words inform the viewer that Jonathon might have deeper insight than appears at first glance and might be thinking of a far bigger picture as was suggested in the initial flashback. This scene serves as something of a reconciliation with Jonathon's character, much like a young adult coming into a greater appreciation of the wisdom of a parent and beginning to view them through different eyes.
>>68955015
He didnt capture who or what luthor is. Have you seen him in animated movies or comics? I cant even watch him for 5 secs without cringing
>>68955081
Truck Scene
MoS's final Jonathon scene has him working on the engine of their truck while Clark plays "hero" in the yard with the family dog. We're lead into this by way of Martha telling present-day Clark that Jonathon always "believed you were meant for greater things and that when the day came, your shoulders would be able to bear the weight." In the flashback, Jonathon looks on in silence at Clark striking a hero pose while Martha watches her husband, smiles to herself, and pats him on the shoulder.
Having come into his own, Clark can now see the hidden wisdom of his father. This closing scene brings full reconciliation with the character of Jonathon Kent, the man that raised a Superman.
>>68952646
anyone else think the aquaman rumors are just as dumb as the >reshoots for fun for suicide squad where?
>>68954963
I thought this was the best on screen Lex we've ever gotten. the rooftop scene + the scene with him and the senator in his dad's office was good stuff
>>68952646
>Do not engage on company wars.
You're baiting them and kickstarting it by saying this.
>Do not answers to shitposters.
This>>68954921
>>68955081
The Mountaintop
Time will tell whether I'm right in this regard or not, but I believe Jonathon's scene in BvS will be his last, it being a mountaintop reflection with all that implies. Here, Clark reaches the summit, the final change in his shifting perceptions of his father.
Jonathon's horse parable is all about actions and their consequences. He regretted that his actions to save their farm cost the Langs their horses, but it's important to note that at no time does he say he believes he was wrong for doing so. Ultimately, his story is about making decisions based on your own moral compass, taking action, and accepting the consequences of those actions, both good and bad. It's about choosing your world and who you want to be in it.
Taken in sequence, these scenes represent Clark's emotional growth over the course of his life as Superman, and each scene is designed to not only inform the plot's current action, but to give us a view of his own internal landscape. They also evoke an emotional response from the audience that echoes the stages of development that a child experiences in growing to maturity.
From the mountaintop, Clark looks back and views his father, his choices, and his wisdom through the lens of time.
>>68955114
>anyone else think the aquaman rumors are just as dumb as the >reshoots for fun for suicide squad where?
I haven't looked too far into it. Looked like clickbait to me.
>>68955088
I don't read comics. I've seen the animated Luthor and he is far superior but bvs Luthor was a different take and has his qualities.
He was almost chess master levels of genius in the way he manipulated everyone, lex had a part in every action taken by the characters it's a shame he shat the bed by creating doomsday and the prison scene was cringe worthy but you can't deny he wasn't a good villain
you are very cucks lol
>>68952695
I'm actually starting to think of it and MoS as more sci-fi films than cape films, especially MoS.
https://youtu.be/mTpzhfH8vC8?list=PL42rZ9F2TCklQr2PKp7qhdPro-foWyuZD&t=119 [Embed]
Now compare the tone of it and the delivery method to this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCcdr4O-3gE [Embed]
Even the words that appear on-screen in Zod's broadcast are interesting, as they're evocative of another movie from long ago. I think maybe this is Snyder telling his audience to expect something a bit different than your typical cape movie.
He's telling us to expect science fiction.
>>68955081
>"good man or bad man"
This foreshadows the alternate timeline where Superman enslaves the world with Darkseid.
>Alfred: "He is not our enemy!"
>Bruce: "Not today..."
>>68955088
You have to let go of old ideas if we're going to move forward. Do you just want to be told the same story over and over? I don't.
>>68955152
I actually think not spelling explicitly turning to the camera and saying. "actions have consequences and you have to live with them" confused the audience(even though they basically did it in the bathtub scene)
>>68955130
>the prison scene was cringe worthy
I'm>>68955114 and I'd definitely agree to that. IDK how you fix it without subtly introducing Darkseid though, maybe just have him laugh and then say "the god is dead"?
>>68955088
>>68955244
I hated Jesse's Lex at first, but he's kind of grown on me. He's basically the same mastermind, just affecting the 21st century nonconformist tech mogul as opposed to the 20th century corporate fat cat.
I'm actually hoping we see him back in the future to find it was just a mask he put on to disguise his psychopathy. If he tapped into his "The Social Network" persona, he could quite easily be the Lex we're more accustomed to.
>>68955379
Yeah, without them showing us the deleted scene, that prison scene definitely had no business being there. If we'd been more privy to what was happening with him with the ship's AI, his gradual breakdown over the course of the movie would make a lot more sense,
Once they include that, his character might take on some Lovecraftian parallels - a guy driven insane by "forbidden," mind-breaking knowledge.
Why should anyone give any of what you've written any creedence, when you can't even fucking spell Jonathan right?
One of the most common fucking names in the history of names, and you can't get it right.
>>68955435
Yeah everything has been modernized. Especially the Joker. Snyder and Terrio had considered including J in BvS, but ultimately decided it was too much for one movie. That means that this new Joker's look and mythology are designs of Snyder himself, not David Ayer.
As for the future films, yes, I believe that as we get more character progression through the films, they will all begin to resemble the "ideal" versions that everybody is complaining about; but i do hope that Snyder still keeps the progression of these new portrayals fresh and mythologically and thematically consistent.
>>68955294
My advice to you is don't go into a movie thinking "I'm watching a X genre movie", appreciate movies for what they are and judge them on that.
I went into BvS having no idea what to expect and was thoroughly entertained by the political philosophical plot and themes.
MoS definitely is a scifi movie, Zods announcement to earth and the tone and way that was done really confirmed it wasn't a generic capeshit movie
>>68955644
Where'd I miss it?
>>68955039
STOP INVINCIBLE SON
>>68955644
My bad. It's my middle name with an "O."
>>68955536
Yes, I'm very excited to see what Snyder has in store. Darkseid and his army of space demons and whatever greater forces in this new hard sci-fi DC has to offer.
>>68955536
The scene with batman made perfect sense though. It showed how he had changed
>>68955796
>hard scifi
It's not hard scifi at all.
>>68955800
It did, but without really seeing what changed him, it just comes off as feeling weird to me. Once I found out about the deleted scene, it made way more sense,
>>68955762
Clark could've saved him. He knew of his own ability to do it. But he chose not to. Think about that.
>>68955379
>I actually think not spelling explicitly turning to the camera and saying. "actions have consequences and you have to live with them" confused the audience(even though they basically did it in the bathtub scene)
*not explicitly spelling it out and turning to the camera
>>68955796
One of the things I was thinking about the other day. I think I might have figured out Bruce's whole premonition/"Flashforward" thing, or at least what's making it possible.
You guys remember the scene from MoS with Zod using Kryptonian tech to get in Clark's head? What if they're cobbling together that tech with the whole 'cosmic treadmill" thing to make it possible.
As near as I recall, they never showed Clark or Lois with anything actually strapped to their heads to do it. Maybe they can open a wormhole, but can't physically step through it.
That'd mean Bruce sleeping there, wornhole opens, complete with turbulence and such, then mindfuckery ensues,
>>68955669
david ayer confirmed by leto for pitching some of joker's look, the tattoos at the very least
the teeth and grill make sense given ayer's areas of interest, the rest seems to be influenced my conversations between leto and morrison
>>68955716
i had heard some shit on here and got some spoilers but was still surprised with how surreal it was and with all the allusions and visual metaphors. it both surprised me and didn't surprise me that none of that was being addressed
>>68955961
given that the battle with doomsday is literal metaphors, an erasure of the line between inner and outer space, and the mos scene your referring to and bruce's dream i think there is the implication of the mind being a valid stage for future movies
it's one of my silent hopes, that they get around to doing imaginative mind fuck shit with that
>>68955152
>>68955152
great analysis
don't forget the importance of the stacked rocks, used in many cultures to mark physical and spiritual paths
it's a landmark of Clark's growth, but not the end of the road
>>68956097
Thanks! I'll work it in for the future.
>>68956000
Well it's never too late to learn that lesson.
I've found I enjoy a lot more movies than most people and I guess that because I'm very open minded. ie I generally don't care for tarantino movies but still gave hateful 8 a fair chance and loved it. I didn't dismiss robot cop for being a reboot and it was pretty decent, not as iconic in imagery as the original but had a cleverer plot and themes.
When you approach movies with more of an open mind, you'll be better able to identify what makes a good film, rather than giving things a pass on poor filmmaking because they are X genre
>>68956080
Here's some other deeply crazy thoughts.
I missed the comics that had Darkseid's whole Anti-life equation thing(the new round, at least, I'm somewhat familiar with Kirby's original 4th World stuff), but as near as I've gathered, there's some degree of mind control involved. Everything I'm about to say is pure conjecture, but I'm still going to spoiler it in case my lunatic ravings might potentially spoil something for someone.
I'm starting to think that Krypton going isolationist and implementing strict population control and their genetics program might have some hints contained in it, At the very least, I think what we hear about Krypton;s former outposts from both Jor-El and Zod might have an element of "revisionist history" in it,
Every Kryptonian we've seen off-planet besides Clark and the Phantom Zone escapees can be listed as follows: a corpse in a hibernation pod on the scout ship, and more corpses clutching weaponry at the outpost Zod and crew visit.
What's killing them all? The simple answer is "convenience," but what if it's something to do with the New Gods? What if Darkseid's presented as really close to a real-world Satan, capable of corrupting people by simple knowledge of his existence, sort of a whole "knowledge of good and evil" sort of thing?
I'm starting to wonder if maybe the Kryptonians had some sort of Civil War in their past that took out their old colonies. Whether it was influenced by Darkseid or was just their own "genetic religion" thing, I find it intriguing to think about.
Some interesting "horseshit" I found.
Taken from The Continuum Encyclopedia of Animal Symbolism in Art. It's available
Greeks connected horses with water in their art
>Drowning horses
https://books.google.com.mx/books?id=fr2rANLrPmoC&pg=PA227&lpg=PA227&dq=renaissance+horse+symbol&source=bl&ots=emJaSBBvNG&sig=Pz_pajF5OrMO___y7VZeqlzEFXY&hl=es-419&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiYlqOGoLjMAhUEg4MKHbGdAocQ6AEIRTAJ#v=onepage&q=renaissance%20horse%20symbol&f=false
>>68956407
Interesting. My brain's too tired for more braining tonight, but it's been nice talking to you all.
>>68956321
well jor-el said that past kryptonians simply stopped exploring space
why?
it actually is very open ended and could very tie into what you're saying, because why else are civilizations isolate themselves
>>68952646
Why is Jason Momoa such an arrogant cock when he has nothing to back it up?
>>68956592
now that i think about it a little more, the past few days some have speculated about a kryptonian-mesopotamian myth connection which actually could serve to connect this even more with our own legends of prehistory and creation
and given that all our myths and religions share commonalities and that they've already gone into a full myth psychological direction this could fit nicely
but i wonder how green lantern and other space based heroes could fit into that, the why of their hero choice in justice league is actually very obvious and again i'm surprised yet not surprised that a certain other board hasn't caught on to this
>>68956407
More on the horses, the three times they are shown onscreen serve as a parallel to Bruce's mental frame and metamorphosis, Bruce in this instance represents humanity as a whole.
The first time the horse is seen is inside the dust cloud in Metropolis, wandering aimlessly. Humanity has lost its way. This horse has no saddle, a wild horse.
The second time is during the Capitol bombing, standing on its hind legs, a signal of conflict and confrontation. Losing our way can lead to violence and tragedy, which is what happens to Bruce. The horse has a saddle but it's still thrashing with a policeman mounted on it, this scene is very reminiscent of a rider trying to domesticate a wild horse, which is also what Superman is trying to do with mankind: turn it into a force of good through cooperation and a bond of brotherhood.
The third time it appears is during Clark's funeral, a two-horse carriage pulls Superman's casket. Mankind has been tamed at last and is ready to work together. Bruce is convinced that he needs to assemble the Justice League, and carry on Clark's legacy.
>>68956764
That actually works pretty well.
>>68956816
Wrote this from memory, not sure if the first horse is unsaddled, will have to confirm. Still ties everything together nicely, and works well with the theory that MoS deals with the birth of Superman and BvS deals with Superman reaching manhood.
>>68956764
well yeah
all the symbols and metaphors have display a micro and macro symmetry throughout the movie, functioning in different ways for different characters while also clueing into the movie itself and the ride of it
on second viewing i was hoping to catch more patterns, hopefully in the editing itself but couldn't focus and only kept track of the relationships between scenes ie meanwhile, therefore, but then. if i remember right it's really after the bombing scene that everything is more overtly casually related
torrent just finished so i'll go through it again
anyway, it stuck out to me how in an interview the editor said that lex was originally to show up much later but i guess the meanwhile edits didn't satisfy them so they brought him forward to connect everything more directly
>>68956873
saddle, no rider
>>68957030
The film seems to have a huge disjointment with the editors, which I really blame for all the flaws. Everything else was pretty good. It just makes finding any symbolism in it seem more like coincidence.
>>68957140
Yeah, I can't wait for the Director's Cut.
>>68956764
The other horse appearances also work.
>The red capes are coming. You and your hearings, galloping through the streets to warn us. One if by land, two if by air.
Bruce feels the necessity to warn mankind that Superman is a threat, but remember that his judgement is clouded (dust cloud in Metropolis) so he doesn't realize that Clark isn't a real threat (yet).
Jonathan's story of drowning horses brings up the suffering and harm that Superman's birth brought upon mankind. By revealing himself the Kryptonians came to Earth, and Bruce's people died. A necessary evil that Clark and mankind have to learn to live with in order to move forward.
>>68955961
I think the time/dimensional travel will be explained as causing timelines to temporarily overlap, causing Bruce to but remember future events from the Flash's timeline. Bruce wrote it off as a dream for lack of a rational explanation, but of course it will be touched upon and expanded in future films.
>>68956321
Basically, the Anti-Life Equation is a mathematical that all life is meaningless. It allows Darkseid to completely dominate the will of mortals who are exposed to it.
>>68958254
>religious allusions
>medieval allusions
>space fuckery/magic
>theistic dialouge
>political discourse
>timetravel fuckery
DC covers a lot of ground
i love this thread
you guys are amazing
>>68954797
>>68954915
>>68955039
>>68955081
>>68955111
>>68955152
>>68955294
>>68956407
>>68956764
>>68953350
>>>68926032 →
>>>68926142 →
>>>68926193 →
>>>68926240 →
>>>68926294 →
>>>68926340 →
>>>68926395 →
>>>68926431 →
>>>68926481 →
do you honestly believe zack is capable of that?
not condescending, just genuinely curious
after sucker punch and everything
Honestly, having seen it twice now, the best part about this movie is that it actually tried to be something other than generic capeshit.
Some of it (for me) didn't quite get to what they were going for, but scenes like Superman's montage of him saving people while they discuss the political effects of him having free rein in regards of his use of his power was really something that hit hard and left me thinking about it in depth.
I hope the directors cut fixes the issues I had with it
>>68959560
Yes, everything discussed comes from the movies themselves, and the fact that so many people agree and have discovered these things on their own is a huge alarm bell that there's more going on than meets the eye. We've been having these discussions since opening weekend.
I went in not expecting much and through discussion we've gathered a massive ammount of info that checks out.
It's easy for some people to dismiss it because it's capeshit or because they find some movies that Zack has done in the past disagreeable, but this brings to mind a quote from Armond White's review.
>Snyder intends to resolve the conflict between commerce and art.
Just because it's a big blockbuster franchise focused on the big bucks it doesn't mean that it can't have depth.
>>68959938
>The basic thesis is that superhero franchises are antithetical to what Superman actually stands for.
>>68959938
thanks
you are doing god's workand his name is Zack
good thread
>>68952646
Can't stump the Cap.
>this thread
Ironic shitposting or genuine retardation?
>>68952798
you're vocabulary is shit too son
>>68954247
i would add the guy who played KGBeast to the good part, even out of costume he captured the character perfectly
>>68959938
Is this like an extreme version of Pestposting, where we pretend a piece of shit is actually kino and discuss its symbolism in depth in verbose language?
>>68962693
>you're
>>68955088
bullshit, a differnt attitude doesnt mean he didnt capture who Lex was perfectly
>But muh comics
He was more acurate to the comics than any live action version ever put to screen
>>68959938
>implying that it has depth
>MFW CW $84 MILLION OPENING WEEKEND
>>68952646
BvS wasn't as bad as it was made out to be, and I enjoyed them making an effort to rub some style on it instead of generic textbook directing
There I said it.
Fuck the Marvelfags who think it's a pissing match; they're two different subgenres with two different styles.
>>68962859
had a part in the first generation pasta and this is all i was trying to say
>>68962746
>taking the bait
