What the fucking fuck happened?
Why was the thread deleted?
Do you want some lucozade?
>you must hate me, I'm a pain in the arse
NOBODY HATES YOU JOE
JOE PLEASE
>jani's
>>68676085
>>68676076
Mods are alcoholics.
>>68676076
>>68676085
Janny is an alcoholic
FUCK'S SAKE JOE DON'T DO IT!!
STAY IN THE FUCKING BED YOU MAD CUNT STOP TALKING ABOUT BUYING VODKA
Joe is fucking relentless
the fuck did the last thread get deleted?
>>68676055
Cmon Joe.
Joe is finished the poor lad
Mods have ONE JOB
hope they OD on K cider
RIP
>>68676076
streams in the OP aren't allowed
NO JOE NO
>>68676089
>mods
GIVE JOE SOME VOKDA
>>68676076
>>68676085
Probably the stream being advertised in the OP. Shit is not looked upon kindly at all.
>Louis just sitting texting sluts.
good effort, mods
twats
Poor Joe
Oh joe
Is Joe doing this for attention? This is the first time I've seen Louis look so worried and nervous.
Fucking Joe.
>muh lucozade
Maybe don't delete this one you fuckwit
Can't link to streams in the OP, newfags.
>>68676085
janny didn't want lucozade
orange lucozade is the perfect pick me up lets be real
Fucking Joe man
he did it for free
Joe is the Janny, at least we know he lives.
Joe is an honest to god madman
>>68676123
/co/ does it all the time.
Joe?
JOE!
JOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!
Nice work mods.
>GoT has a sticky
>Louis gets deleted
>Louis' voice cracks when he says 'Don't leave Joe'
Fuck this life
Has Louis ever gotten so emotional on one of his docs before?
Couldn't imagine being a vodka alchy
It have to be beer, got to enjoy the drink too
Captcha: Dead End
FUCKS SAKE JOE
What the fuck is lucozade?
Is his brain fried?
ahahah fucking hell Joe
>Joe crying on the bed about how his gf has abandoned him
>'Do you want some Lucozade?'
Fucking hell Louis.
Game of Thrones gets a website-wide fucking promo from jap moot but god forbid we discuss a Louis Theroux documentary.
Fucking janny can lick my dad's asshole and eat my mother's rancid piss, you fucking fuck
This guy is pathetic lol
>Joe's back
JOE WHY
WHYYYYYYYYYYY
Also I appreciate it OP but no streams in the OP
>>68676076
>>68676085
The old thread will still be around for a while. It's early for a new one.
IT WAS ONLY PERRIER
>its easier to drink alone in the park then deal with things
yep.
It's vodka in the water
I get the feeling if Joe was a woman they'd try harder to get him to stay.
It's pretty funny, they obviously only offered the detox because it was going to be on TV.
fucking joe with the bants
#lad
Why don't they take their money of them.
WELCOME BACK JOE
Not gonna lie lads, I'd love to get on the beer with Joe
>it was all a ruse
Fucking hell Joe, you're playing a dangerous game here
Needed dat Perriere
yes Joe
THEY'RE ONLY RED FROM ALL THE THOUGHTS UNUSED INSIDE MY HEAD
THEY'RE ONLY RED FROM ALL THE THINGS I COULD HAVE DONE INSTEAD
AND WHEN YOU LOOK INTO THESE EYES
I HOPE YOU REALISE
THEY COULD NEVER BE BLUE
THEY COULD NEVER BE BLUE-UE-UE-UE-UE
>>68676173
sports energy drink like gatorade.
>>68676173
>>68676173
First World Gatorade
He's just gone to get some Lucozade®
>>68676134
Yeah seems like a bellend
>it's only perrier
>>68676174
He's just plastered
>>68676185
We should make the janitor drink tha guy's belly fluid.
I hope that is candy
Louis' upset face is like :C
so is this one just about alcoholics?
Hits a little close to home idk if I can watch it
B A S E D J O E
A
S
E
D
J
O
E
knew this gay boy was playing up for the camera
It's just sparkling water we're good
>Joe just mooches back with some water
The absolute madman! Good one Joe
>>68676204
well yeah obviously, rightfully so
>only 10 more minutes
fucking hell
It's Perrier!
Thank you Joe! You're gonna make it!
Joe is dying
Pops to shop to get Perrier to troll Louis
Fucking #lad
Tell you what lads. I don't know how these people in the NHS put up with all these drunk people all the time like this.
JOE PLEASE
>>68676222
>>68676224
wtf is gatorade.
>>68676205
Of course, look at the state of him. He doesn't want help right now.
>>68676213
He only drinks straight vodka
He's gonna make it lads.
I believe
TOP LAD JOE GET YOUR ARSE BACK IN DETOX MY SON YOU'RE GUNNA MAKE IT
NOT THIS MUSIC
IT ALWAYS MAKES ME CRY
FUCK I WANT SOME LUCOZADE
and here come the hiccups
He's gonna make it :')
>>68676166
If you're an alcoholic the taste becomes less important than getting as much alcohol as possible with as little liquid as possible.
Suth Effriken min.
Fookin Prawns
>new flat
is this provided by the gubment?
>It's only Perrier
MADMAN
Joe, take a bow son
Best play 2016
>Its just Perrier
I wanna cry
Hope this South African bloke pulls through, seems like a nice man
DEAPOOL PREDICTIONS....
Peter confirmed alive and well with new house
>implying he didn't neck a bottle of vodka in the shop
There is no way he's gonna make it.
>comes back with perrier
literal madman just did it for the bantz
>>68676258
The bantz are relentless
>>68676261
Like a less sweet Lucozade
>Louis Theroux documentary ending
>How It Ends starts playing
All around me are familiar faces
Worn out places, worn out faces
Bright and early for their daily races
Going nowhere, going nowhere
Their tears are filling up their glasses
No expression, no expression
Hide my head, I wanna drown my sorrow
No tomorrow, no tomorrow
And I find it kinda funny
I find it kinda sad
The dreams in which I'm dying
Are the best I've ever had
I find it hard to tell you
I find it hard to take
When people run in circles
It's a very, very mad world, mad world
Children waiting for the day they feel good
Happy Birthday, Happy Birthday
And I feel the way that every child should
Sit and listen, sit and listen
Went to school and I was very nervous
No one knew me, no one knew me
Hello teacher tell me what's my lesson
Look right through me, look right through me
And I find it kinda funny
I find it kinda sad
The dreams in which I'm dying
Are the best I've ever had
I find it hard to tell you
I find it hard to take
When people run in circles
It's a very, very mad world, mad world
Enlarging your world
Mad world
>>68676259
I feel bad for them. For every decent patient, there must be so many scumbags.
That OCD lads
>this music
Holy shit, this documentary!
get ready for the line of text at the end that confirms joe relapsed and died after completion of filming
>Perrier
He's a posho through and through
No doubt he was necking belvedere too
Is there a more pathetic addiction than alcoholism?
joe seems like a bellend. horrible student voice, i'd drink myself to fuck if i had to live with that awful fucking voice.
>>68676213
It would be great if you could. He's clearing lacking support and is lost.
>Threatens to get vodka
>IM GONNA DO IT REEE
>Comes back with water when people don't chase him
He doesn't want to die. He just wants a friend and support network.
>>68676316
because pills are so much better than alcohol
jeebus
>>68676259
You could see Joe's nurse was a bit fed up and has seen hundreds of those.
I'm so afraid of this.
>>68676296
gutman is dead
joe is still on the bevvy
frenchie possibly fucked up
>>68676310
Enlarging your liver
Maaaaaad. Cuuuuunt
how is this foreigner paying for this flat when hes an alchi?
>>68676305
fucking drama queen playing at hollywood for the cameras
>>68676344
Yes, legal highs.
>>68676344
waifuism.
>boofay
>>68676332
Anon no please
what accent is this
wew lads, anyone fancy a pint?
>>68676359
Gubmint handouts
>>68676344
4chan
>>68676228
>I want some Lucozade® Louie.
>Is anything else good as well? Does it have to be Lucozade®?
>Yes. Only Lucozade® is good enough
Your check is in the mail mr. Theroux
>>68676344
heroin makes you a worse person but it is less devastating physically
Screengrab bro, can you get me a screengrab of when Louis looked pensive with the subtitle saying "You look like you have seen a Grim Reaper"?
It would make a great reaction image.
>the size of that kitchen
That is depressing
>>68676374
his mum is qt, so is strong-chan
>>68676349
I believe that is his medication, not recreational drugs.
>>68676389
south africa
>>68676347
>student voice
Having the voice of an educated southerner isn't that bad. Are you from Scotland or somewhere?
>>68676389
South African.
>I still enjoy a nice pimms
Final shot will be him and almost dead Joe in a park sipping vodka
>>68676316
Shit. I only get one happy pill a day and the NHS makes me pay for the persciption
>>68676340
>No doubt he was necking belvedere too
Laughing so hard because I know it's fucking true.
Nice Pepsi
>>68676389
Liverpudlian/French.
that guy wants a drink right now
Fuck me Louis has been on the bottle
>>68676359
Got rich during apartheid.
Right lads who'll be dead at the time of airing? My bet's on Aurelie
>>68676409
Welcome to London
>>68676389
The guy is South African and the woman is possibly Polish as someone mentioned in the first thread.
>>68676228
Are you sure you wouldn't prefer some Perrier®?
>Gary is back
Gary, punch ups ahoy, Louis going to destroy
>>68676344
anything that's not supposed to get you fucked up, basically huffing whatever.
Why is Louis trying to destroy their relationship?
suddenly got a perishing thirst that only an ice cold Lucozade®, Perrier® or Pepsi® might quench
THE BELLEND IS BACK
>say that again?
>>68676455
she looks romanian
haha Louis hates Gary can tell
>>68676259
It's difficult. A&E probably have it worst since they catch the violence from the ones that are still drunk. Medicine and Gastro wards get their frequent fliers who come back whenever their ascites flares up or when they present with variceal bleeding or SBP. GPs see plenty of them, with problems directly and indirectly related to drink, such as depression. It's a huge burden of preventable disease.
>>68676420
that's how it starts
LAD
>>68676449
>yfw it's Louis
>>68676402
>>68676228
Gee, I really fancy some Lucozade® now!
kek Gary is such a prick.
>I've been shagging my ex-girlfriend all night
>says this on his gf's birthday, in front of her
What a twatsack
>>68676344
Meth addiction
Basically just like alcoholism except you look like a skeleton
Anyone wanna watch a movie after this? I have the boss with hardcoded chink subs
Come to rizon #lbxd if you wanna chat
Louis hates Gary lads
Poor doggy
>gary is back
>louis continues to be visibly rustled
>what's the appeal of gary?
How's Gary doing?
>he's still alive
>happy birthday I've been shagging my ex all day
Seriously what IS the appeal of Gary?
>>68676480
Wearing a cross so probably catholic
>I WAS SHAGGING MY EX-GIRLFRIEND. MWAHHHAHH
>[Tongue licking intensifies]
LOL
Gary hopefully fucking kills himself.
>>68676473
You forgot K-ciderâ„¢
>tfw I've sat and had a beer on the same bench that Aurelie does
Gary confirmed as top #LAD
>Gary
Gary is literally the direct opposite of Louis
Joe comes across as sad and wanker. He just needs a mate
>>68676520
dark triad personality traits
>>68676501
put on some louis autism docs
Is anyone in England English?
>what's the appeal of garry?
ruthless
Die Gary u cunt
>>68676443
>louis becomes an alcoholic to improve his documentary
based
>Louis trying to supplant Gary and get that croissant poosy
What a cheeky lad.
>>68676531
>namefag can't handle the alpha
aurelie is by far the saddest. The others are a bit up and down, shes just down.
>>68676443
That Adam Buxton is a bad influence.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taUqt_E0aOs
>>68676520
Alpha
Is this on BBC now or what? Where can I watch?
Pinkie out, that's how you know she's posh
> Ahhhh the K Cider
>>68676503
we all hate gary
>>68676427
>Having the voice of an educated southerner isn't that bad. Are you from Scotland or somewhere?
That's not the voice of an educated man, that's the voice of a whining pranny. Still talks like he's at school and he's thirty fucking two.
>>68676566
The Lucozade is.
HE MADE IT
>>68676473
I know that feeling. So thirsty for a Lucozade®, Perrier® or Pepsi® or a nice alcoholic K-Cider®
imagine the smell of her breath
JOE!
HE MADE IT!!
>>68676566
English Londoners all live out in the suburbs twenty miles from the centre, they commute it in the morning to stations like Waterloo and Euston and then go to work in the City. It's only blacks and Pakistani people that live in the inner city.
>>68676564
I can stream more louis but it'll take me 10 mins to grab them from my sekrit clubs though
I'm so glad I was here for this. Thanks /tv/ I'm crying with laughter
YES JOE!
JOE LIVES
>>68676548
Saved
>>68676591
Aahhhhh Perrier
>>68676566
The BBC films exclusively in London, and no one in London is English
Gary would be a bellend even without the drink
Joe looks like a young Bradley Cooper when he's sober
JOE
O
E
Thank god Joe made it.
>>68676662
t. can't handle banter
YES JOE! YES!
>>68676579
Man they all went on to do such cool things.
Joe made it lads!
why are we keeping these subhumans alive?
>muh muh addiction i cant help going to the shops, buying a bottle and drinking for hours
>brighton
his "struggle" was a self-indulgent sham t b h
Joe has made it, probably!
Based Gary better not be ded in the end
HE MADE IT LADS
JOOOOOOEEE, YOU DID YOU CRAZY SON OF A BITCH
>this thread
im laughing but it hurts
Good fucking man Joe.
JOE LIVES!
>laughing about almost dying
Top lad confirmed
>>68676566
Gary, Louis, Joe, all that medical staff.
>>68676592
Gary is the best thing on this. Wish he knifed that pathetic faggot Joe.
JOE
It's a hospital, virtually every other bedstand will have a Lucozade bottle on it, it's the traditional British drink for sick people.
Fuck this beta normie
>boo hoo my gf left me, best attention seek by drinking
Perrier better give this guy a job
Withdrawls from alcohol is horrible.
I went from drinking 1.5litres of vodka a day for 3 weeks to nothing because my mother took over my care and I really wanted to jump out of the fucking bathroom window.
I couldn't even crawl.
Had some indian emergency doctor cunt who came out and didn't give me anything because I would "just throw it up"...
Got some drugs to ease it and it felt much better... The day after.
>>68676663
I can see that, he's got some John Krasinski in him too
Dead happy Joe has gone to Brighton to his da. Poor lad. This has been the most 'real' episode I've seen of Louis Theroux.
>tfw Joe lives
Am I supposed to feel sorry for this cunt
3 month pregnant dude hasn't shown back up
:(
>comfy and safe
ah shit here come the tears
Seriously all of that garbage because he didn't get the job he wanted.
HE STILL HAD A MEDICAL JOB. IT WAS ONE HE DIDN'T WANT.
muh NHS
Joe seems fine - was it all just a bender?
>West Pier in the background
An apt metaphor for the lives of these people.
Joe has the saddest eyes
>>68676702
One doc was a fenian
>>68676663
Erm, no.
NO ONE DIES
WHAT WHAT
WHAT
>>68676644
>I have never been to London the post.
>>68676737
He's dead mate.
What a depressing programme. Was it just a one off?
>tfw no one died
>tfw no face
truly, Joe could not have made this transformation without the support of Lucozade®
>>68676737
He never got an in memoriam either...
gutman might be alive lads
>Coming up next, Eastenders come watch Phil smoke crack.
Damn, no confirmed deaths?
>>68676737
If you follow Louis on social media they occasionally do updates on how people are doing, I imagine someone will give an update soon on him and Aurielle.
The NHS is the best healthcare in the world
Joe would have never have got that treatment in the USA
and yet the Tories want to sell the NHS off
so what's next week? Or was this a one off?
THE PREGGERS MAN BEAT THE ODDS
WHAT A MADMAN!
>>68676753
I think the implication is that he's probably going to do it again
>I missed the whole thing
>>68676786
Fuck Lucozade.
He went out for vodka, came back with Perrier and made a complete recovery.
That shit is literally a cure for alcoholism
>>68676786
And Perrier®
>you will never sit opposite louis as he stares pensively out the window of a train
Wow. gutman lived.
Thanks for watching it with me, /tv/. xxxxxxxx
Line of Duty is good telly tbf
POST YOUR FACE WHEN YOU REALISED THAT GARY IS ALIVE SOMEWHERE RIGHT NOW
What was that ending song?
we are all joe
>>68676748
Yeah he's a papmered prick
Sounded a bit all over the place tbqh, I would worry a relapse could happen at any time.
>Big belly is so obviously dead he doesn't even need a mention at the end
christ
thank you streamgod
>>68676813
Selfie by beer gut's grave
>>68676777
What are you going on about? I live in Kingston borough. Most of south London is black and Paki only, same with Tower Hamlets and most of east London. Parts of the inner city are white ghettos or areas like Kensington which are ghost towns inhabited for two weeks of the year by Russian oligarchs.
>>68676816
hi bog sim
>muh gf left me
>going to get pissed, pls feel sorry for me
FUCK OFF JOE
wot
>>68676806
kek
should i do anymore live tv lads?
Thanks for the stream anon
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
>>68676864
>Kingston
>Tower Hamlets
Oh sure, no cherry picking there at all
>>68676816
Imagine all the degenerates and foreigners we wouldn't have
HII WOOWIE
>>68676785
Implying Louie didn't want to be too disrespectful and plaster their deaths on national television
>>68676844
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNco-e2CXuo
Guts looks like he does because his liver is totally fucked.
He might not be dead but he won't get better without a new liver, and he's no chance of getting one without giving up the drink.
>>68676839
>gutman lived
don't lie to me anon
We've all done a Joe once or twice. Cheeky pint turns into several detox visits.
they should have just followed gary for a full episode tbqh
>>68676816
Thanks Paul
Louis doesn't understand that Orally needs Garry to be a shadow of her. While she is drunk on alcohol he is drunk on life.
>>68676816
>The NHS is the best healthcare in the world
yeh sure that's why no other country copies the UK system
>Joe would have never have got that treatment in the USA
he only got that treatment because the camera crew was there
>and yet the Tories want to sell the NHS off
yeh the Tories have supposedly been privatising the NHS since 1980
In 2116 you'll say the same thing
Thanks for the threads lads that was a blast.
Actually surprised how good that was, probably one of my top 5 Thorax documentaries.
>>68676852
Yeah i took one look at his boat and knew he will get sloshed at the drop of hat
He can keep it up if he literally never even sips alcohol again though
>>68676872
would you like a lucozade
>>68676834
How could I forget the tremendous healing power of Perrier® - Earth's first soft drink.
Did any one get 3 month belly's name?
See if we can find him on social media
requesting a gif of gary banter.
any part will do, it was all gold
>>68676748
>normie has a month long bender cause his gf left him
>gets a documentary
REEEEEEE
>Suddenly /tv/ hates Joe
What happened?
Scarlett's loli sister on Gogglebox lads
>>68676922
degeneracy
>>68676899
>implying this isn't the BBC and they care about shit like this
How long does it take for these to show up on iPlayer? I missed the first 45 minutes
This film seems a bit ethnic for my tastes.
>>68676816
As a recovering Americlap you're wrong
>the Kino folder is not Kino's Journey
Damn it, streamer. Welp, what have we all taken away from this?
Time to crack open a botle of vino then!
>>68676889
I'm sorry?
>>68676940
>yeh sure that's why no other country copies the UK system
Yet they do
>he only got that treatment because the camera crew was there
bullshit statement as kings have a unit for that sort of treatment
>>68676839
How would you know? Unless...
Gutman?
>>68676816
the UK doesn't need these nu-wave corbynite voters and their small minded thinking; please educate yourself on the 90s and the country under blair rule.
>>68676980
couple of hours probably
>>68676492
Gary was JUST Jon Hamm off the wagon the whole time
ERASERHEAD
>>68676879
Put on Mulholland Dr pham
>>68676954
Rather have a perrier if you please
>>68676968
He's a normie and that entire hospital visit at the end felt totally staged. He just happens to relapse after 4 years just after Louie visits him? Fuck off m8.
>>68676968
Joe can be a mess of a human being and is still more successful than /tv/ in every way
>>68676959
Mate, he struggles with percentages.
He's not going to grasp a fuckin twitter account.
thx for stream
>>68676968
Normie attention whore
Probably a tripfag
Everything seems so hopeless.
>>68676959
Stuart was his name
Do we have more Louis Theroux in the future?
>>68677023
>>68677013
Vote on something you wanna watch or i'm leaving on adult swim blocks from 2005
>>68677035
Ah yes... I'm sure they had to use an actor because it's so hard to find a self-destructive alcoholic in the UK!
>streamer showing Family Guy
What went wrong?
>>68676968
He's handsome
>>68677060
Life is a universally fatal sexually transmitted disease.
>>68677012
>you will never look as good as jon hamm
why live
>>68677073
goggle box
channel 4
>>68676980
You can go back 2 hours on the live stream
>>68677066
The Scientology film will make it to arthouse cinemas, then 2 months later BBC I would presume.
If the Scientology lawyers don't cuck it first
>>68677066
New Scientology doc which could well be his magnum opus
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/london-marathon-2016-race-organisers-to-investigate-after-video-shows-crates-of-water-bottles-being-a3232496.html
Niggers being niggers
Gogglebox is SHIT.
>>68677090
I'm not saying Louie hired him, I'm saying he saw the chance to be the "star" of a documentary and took it.
>>68677111
Kinda wanna watch this but its pure trash
>>68677094
MAKE MERK PAY FOR THEIR MISTAKES
>>68676997
Already downed 8 strong cans lad 2bh
Might go the whole hog and have a lucozade though
I'd rather be dead, I'd rather be dead
I'd rather be dead than wet my bed
I'd rather be dead, I'd rather be dead
I said, "Dead than wet my bed"
Oh, I'd rather be gone than carry on
I'd rather go away than feel this way
Oh, I'd rather be there, where you haven't got a care
And you're better off dead, though it doesn't seem fair
Oh, I'd rather be dead, I'd rather be dead
I'd rather be dead than wet my bed
I'd rather be dead, I'd rather be dead
I'd rather be dead than wet my bed
I'd rather keep my health and dress myself
But you're better off dead than sitting on a shelf
I'll tie my tie 'til the day I die
But if I have to be fed then I'd rather be dead
And when he takes my hand on the very last day
I will understand because it's better that way
Oh! It's nice to be alive, when the dream comes true
You'll be better off dead, it could happen to you
Oh! I'd rather be dead, I'd rather be dead
I'd rather be dead than wet my bed
I'd rather be dead, I'd rather be dead
I'd rather be dead than wet my bed
...and sadly, he got his wish.
>>68676968
He seemed awfully normie desu senpai. Even I've managed the 'drink for a week and wake up in the hospital' routine. We watch these things to feel better about ourselves, not look in the mirror.
>>68677146
gogglebox is the best thing on friday m8
>>68677006
Tories are essentially carrying the Blairite torch now. Carrying on his project.
Corbyn actually marked an interesting return to the old left, before Blair, but since Corbyn went against his true feeling and supports remaining in the EU, turns out he's just another gay neoliberal
>>68677111
>watching GB
fucking normie
>>68677149
Oh yeah that makes a lot more sense, I bet the movie role offers are flying in now!
>>68677181
being this pleb
i bet you're /teamgary/ too
>>68677114
Ah nice cheers - I've actually never used this before
>there are people in this thread who have never tasted lucozade
>>68677145
Animals
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOT4S-43CBM
>>68677138
I doubt it, it's more of a film than a doc, re-enacting scenes that have been relayed to him about scientology, I don't think it will have that same gritty feel
Also share your fav louis moments
Got it recorded and going to watch it in an hour or so, how would you rank it among his other documentaries?
>>68677302
>you might be a real nigga too
>you a real nigga?
>what do you think
>>68677350
heavy on the feels
>>68677302
Hey man, what's up?
>REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>>68677350
It was decent even by his standards. But it's still not as good as some of his earlier ones like Louis and the Nazis and the Westboro National Church documentary. Oh and the Paedophiles one.
Business idea: rows of Perrier in off-licenses to stop alcoholics
>>68676645
STREAM AN AUTISM DOCUMENTARY LADDDDD
>>68677503
keep that one for the next documentary lad
>>68677503
DO YOU WANT SOME LUCOZADE?
>>68677482
Is it edgy Louie or feel good Louie?
>>68677634
Sad feels Louie
>>68677503
DO YOU WANT SOME LUCOZADE?
>>68677634
depends if you can feel sorry for a gormless posh twat on the piss or not.