So, how come Marvel can't make a decent villain, besides being so succesful?
The only decent one so far has been Loki.
Because their development was rushed, while Loki had three movies to fully cement who he was
Because they focus on cutting expenses and profit, not good storytelling. To counter this they pay for critic reviews so people get a blind feeling of security that they're consuming something with quality.
https://es.scribd.com/doc/308457900/Tweet-List
Fisk
>>68248506
>Didnt like Emile Blosnsky pre-Banner blood
Blonsky was best villian until he was turned into abomination.
>>68248598
Fisk's development in Season 2 was great
Villains are a catalyst for heroes to change and grow, however the heroes in Marvel universe are already multidimensional and dynamic in ways traditional movies fall short in. For example think of all the changes Iron Man has gone through in all his movies and compare that to Rey from Star Wars. This is why lackluster villains don't detract from the Marvel Universe. Ultron wasn't a crappy villain he was dynamic and intriguing, but his execution was crappy with hordes of robots and a retarded plan. Mickey's character in IM2 was well done, but short lived. Bucky while maintaining his catalyst nature for one more movie, has joined the "good" side in Civil War.
This is one of the main pitfalls of the MCU and why Loki stands so far above the rest, because there's a lack of permanence or growth of villains. They die, they're one offs. This is in part due to the standalone nature of the movies to prevent the forcing of the growth of a universe, and allowing viewers to jump in at any time. But it severely hinders the "threat" side of things. Ultron can't come back, red skull can't come back.
>>68248506
The focus is always on the hero too much.
>>68248506
I think it's more that MCU movies are so good in most aspects so people that wanna complain about them focus on their weakest part - the villains
It's not like Zod from Man of Steel was any better
>>68248591
>Trying to start this meme
Scribd shill pls go
>>68248506
Because sony and fox own the best ones
>>68248506
Why is "The Mandarin" in that picture? It should be yet another businessman in a suit.
>>68248506
Marvel focuses on their heroes. And it shows desu. It's a nice change of pace from DC who only seem to care aboutno one
>>68248591
>DC kiddies still mad everyone else recognizes their rushed attempt at some avengers money as total dogshit
>>68248813
you mean one of the greatest actors around just scowling and acting angry and yelling for an entire movie isn't dynamic and amazing?
b-but the critics and mainstream audiences and everyone i know are wrong, man of steel was pure kino, and so was BvS!!
>>68248849
i fucking hope shane black dies for what he did to mandarin and lethal weap- i mean iron man 3
>>68248506
Loki and Bucky only good ones out of like 50 movies... damn
>>68248839
This is the only correct answer in the thread.
Icons like Dr. Doom, Galactus, Dr. Octopus, Magneto, Sandman etc belong to other studios.
Marvel has to work with C-list villains and did well to make Loki into a likeable/hateable character
COME TO ME NOW JESSIKAH
>>68248997
>C-list villains
>Red Skull
>Motherfucking Ultron
>>68248506
In the words of the great Sammy J.
"We have HEROES. And DC has.. interesting villains."
>>68248946
>DC has had 3 villians
>None are good
4% is better than 0%
>>68248922
Iron Man 3 was Kino anon. Nobody cares about your magical bejeweled Asian man.
>>68249014
Red Skull and Ultron are great villains in nearly every piece of media except film. What the fuck Marvel?
>>68248922
>>68249053
>implying the mandarin was te reason that movie sucked
>>68248922
>impyling Nice Guys isn't FOTY
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rBp6g9criY
>>68249062
What's wrong with Hugo Weaver's Red Skull?
>>68249053
Nobody cares about a villain whose sole motivation is that a rich person didn't meet him on some rooftop.
>>68248598
Thank you Wesley
>>68249053
I wouldn't be so pissed if Guy Pierce was in any way intimidating in the movie. I mean, I can tolerate bait-and-switch villains but you better make damned sure the real one tops the fake.
>>68248591
Scribdfag, please go.
>>68249053
>forced generic buddy cop humor every 5 seconds
>villain 1 is reddit-tier humor LE DRUNK ENGLISHMAN XD WHAT A TWIST HAHA
>villain 2 is a beta nerd who a celebrity didn't give the time of day to 30 years ago and wanted to kill himself over it
>rhodey is completely useless
>iron man is nerfed to shit after being insanely important the year earlier in avengers
so kino
>>68248506
>Marvel villains are bland
>DC villains are okay
>Marvel heroes are amazing
>DC heroes are shit
I'll take it.
>>68248506
So are we comparing DCEU vs MCU? Or all DC movies vs all Marvel movies? Because Marvel wins both desu.
>>68249075
Nothing. He was great, until his piss poor "death" and then never to be heard from again.
>>68248506
Obidiah was pretty good, although that was just Jeff Bridges being absolutely amazing as always. As a character he was quite bland.
>>68249064
yeah i saw that trailer a few months ago
i'd have been willing to see it in theaters of shane black didn't completely ruin iron man 3. now im sure the trailer just shows all the good bits from the humor and it'll be lethal weapon 8
>>68249137
I wish he'd just get over his hate of the make-up and reappeared IN SPACE.
Do the Avengers actually hate each other? Why did Cap not help with Aldrich? Why did Tony not help with Bucky?
>>68248813
Zod did have motivation beyond being bad for the sake of being bad though.
>>68249176
He also wasn't compelling as a villain.
>>68249168
>AAAGH TONY HELP IT'S MY BEST FRIEND
Why indeed?
>>68249176
Yeah, he tried to destroy the ecosystem on earth, where kryptonians got superpowers, so he could turn it into a polluted mess like Krypton, which was dying.
Real smart.
>>68249176
Other than Red Skull (just a nazi) and the dark elf, name 1 on that list that was "bad for the sake of being bad" as their motivation.
>>68249209
>so he could turn it into a polluted mess like Krypton, which was dying.
Real smart.
Which was also a rehash of the Lex Luthor real estate plot in Superman Returns
>>68249209
I know it isn't great but it's still a lot better than most of Marvels character development in the villain department.
>>68248506
Red Skull should have been better for sure
Ronan served his purpose but I wish he wasn't killed off
I honestly liked Ultron. I thought he worked as a black mirror of Stark's personality. He's what 616 Ultron was to Hank Pym so I still don't get why everyone was so salty about him quipping. His scene at the end with Vision was perfect and the best in the whole film. I know a couple of reviews have criticized Zemo but I genuinely think they're going to try to make him into the next Loki but are taking more of a slow burn approach to it. Remember that even though he was the villain in Thor Loki didn't get hyper popular until Avengers. I think it's going to be the same for Zemo in the MCU. They're going to build him up slowly into being as based as the Zemo in the comics
>>68249088
Good to know you didn't watch the movie.
Are you forgetting X-Men? It's full of great villains
>Magneto (both of them)
>Stryker (Cox was best, the others were good)
>Mystique (Rebecca Romijn)
>Victor Creed (Liev Schreiber)
>Trask
>>68249235
No it isn't, why would you even say that?
>>68248598
Thank you, Wesley
>>68248506
i thought the villain in the hulk movie was pretty good
>>68249240
Does Zemo survive Civil War?
>>68249249
2/10 bait made me reply
>>68249274
Looks that way
>>68249273
Emil was absolutely based before transforming.
>Zod
>Doomsday
>Lex
>Ras
>Scarecrow
>Bane
None of these are considered good. Most are only remembered because of memes. Only the Joker can be considered a decent villain and for the exact same that as Loki is. Quips.
They're great until the end/their deaths where they fail to leave any lasting impression on the heroes.
>>68249225
Ronan the Accuser, Obidiah Stane, Justin Hammer, Whiplash, Aldrich Killian, the Purple Man, Alexander Pierce, Yellowjacket.
>>68249295
Will he kill Steve?
>>68249297
Ever since his first fight with Hulk at the Campus, I've wanted a Hulk/Cap fight.
>>68249240
I think the reason people disliked Ultron (other than not being like muh comics) is because he's created and destroyed in the same movie. Combine that with him not being a physical threat to any character (he jobs to Captain America come on) and the final is, again, Avengers fighting numerous drones (when they should have teamed up against a 6-armed Ultron) and yeah, you get a disappointing villain
>>68249255
Alright, you are right.
Zod is pretty much on par with most Marvel villains.
>>68249344
>IS THAT ALL YOU'VE GOT?
Now that I think about it, The Incredible Hulk wasn't all that bad.
>>68248506
For the most part, it's not a villain driven universe. The only reason the villains in the comics become so infamous or beloved is because they never truly go away. It's always setbacks and rarely permanent defeats because the comic book world must remain largely unchanged at all times. Everything must return to the baseline.
This doesn't work very well in movies. People want closure. If the movies functioned like the comics, characters like Ultron just become Jason or Freddy.
>>68249329
Unlikely, Crossbones is already in the movie and the producers hinted at a controversial ending in some interviews
>>68249387
Yeah, that's also the problem with these movies.
Most of these heroes just mercilessly kill villains and then they never return.
I would rather see a villain get locked away in a maximum security prison than die, which I think is what they're alluding to in Civil War.
>>68249420
But Evans is appearing in IW, so he's not likely to die.
>>68249420
Crossbones or Sharon Carter. Not sure they'll even kill him tho.
>>68249316
>Ronan
No different than Zods, he wanted to make things to fit his people.
>Obidiah Stane
He didnt like Tony ever. He felt he should have been CEO after Howard died.
>Justin Hammer
Wasnt really a villian. Yes, he wanted to be top weapons manufacturer, but ultimatley Vanko was the villian. Justin was a pawn.
>Whiplash
Suffered in Poverty while Tony used the technology his father helped create to live in luxary
>Aldrich Killian
I didnt really pay attention to Ironman 3
>Purple Man
Who? Thanos? He wants to make sweet sweet love to Death.
>Alexander Pierce
Just anothrr Hydra sleeper cell. Nazi rouge agents.
>Yellowjacket
Same as Obidiah, was mad that Hank Pym didnt trust him with the Antman technology.
>>68249350
I think the common denominator at this point for good MCU villains is that they get more than one appearance worth of development. Like I said before Loki was said to be a plus in Thor, but he didn't achieve the mainstream recognition and acclaim that he has now until his second appearance (Avengers). Fisk and Killgrave both had whole seasons worth of appearances to be fleshed out. I agree that Ultron being destroyed in one film was lame as they could have foreshadowed him being a disembodied AI in cahoots with Thanos in the post-credits scene and have him be in IW as well or something. I mean, yeah he wasn't uber powerful, but his strength was in his ability to come back from every death until his final drone was shut down. The Ultron drones did feel samey after Avengers and the chitauri but at the same time that was classic Ultron stuff. It was true to the spirit of the character from the comics at the end of the day if a little more toned down in terms of his powers.
>>68249387
But they could have at least have left some sort of impression (emotional or physical) on the hero. I mean, Green Goblin and Doc Ock both died in the Raimi films but they left a visible impact on Peter Parker and he continues to be haunted by those experiences. The Avengers just seem to brush off their villains like they never existed.
>>68249567
Wait, what impact did Octavius have?
their main market are kids, they cannot make good villains with realistic motivations since kids would look up to them and turn them into mindless savages
>>68249581
That dreams aren't worth sacrificing other people's lives for? It sort of carries into Spider-Man 3 a bit.
>>68249567
Eh, Doc Ock is arguable. He didn't even get a mention in the third film while the Osborn stuff was still a big focus. As far as the Avengers go Loki killed Coulson which united the Avengers and the attack of New York is probably the biggest MCU event to date still. And from the looks of things in Civil War as much as quippy Ultron is hated he did kill an Avenger (Quicksilver), created an Avenger (Vision), and the Sokovia attack and his creation by Stark in general is the driving force for several characters in the movie. Zemo seems to be sticking around so he'll likely be Loki-tier by the end of Phase 3.
>>68249650
I'm sorry, all I remember from Spider-Man 3 is memes and them retconning Uncle Ben's killer.
>>68248813
>It's not like Zod from Man of Steel was any better
He was arguably the most interesting character in the movie. I'd say he's on par with Loki, if not a little better because he's a better foil for the hero.
>>68248506
Because marvel has shit villains
The only exceptions are dr doom, magneto, ultron and some of Spider-mans villians.
Disney only owns one of those and they completely fucked him up.
The biggest issue with film capeshit is they can't make up new heroes/villains.
>>68248506
>have amazing talent like Hugo Weaving, Mickey Rourke, Lee Pace, and fucking Sir Ben Kingsley
>squander it and do nothing but meme and piss all over everything
>>68249692
What's memey about Red Skull?
>>68248591
>Is this the birth of a epic meme? xD
pathetic
>>68249701
generic one-dimensional Nazi supervillain
>>68249005
Why did this make me laugh? kekekek
>>68249686
>He was arguably the most interesting character in the movie.
I don't think this is that big of a compliment anon.
>>68249727
You didn't list any memes there though.
>>68248787
>red skull can't come back.
Considering he didn't lose, he just flew off to space, I hope Red Skull is working with Thanos.
>>68249742
It's still true and it still makes him better than any of the MCU villains.
>>68249763
Does Red Skull age?
>>68249676I liked it. It's not nearly as bad as people say, worth a second watch if you have the time.
>>68249782
I have seen it more than once, it's just been so long.
It's been really long since I've seen any of the Raimi Spider-man movies.
>>68248506
>muh opinion!!
>People ITT think Magneto is a villian
>>68249454
[sopiler] doc Strange is supposedly going to revive him with his magicks
>>68249864
People ITT think Doom is a villain too.
>>68249870
I'm alright with this.
>>68248506
Thanos has been pretty cool so far for the 2 minutes he's been on screen. He reminds me of Sheev in that way.Also Ultron had a nice ass.
>>68249870
He better revive Quickslav too while he's at it.
>>68249880
Doom is a villain though. Magneto does what he does for the good of mutant kind, Doom does what he does because he's power hungry. Now Doom in charge would probably be a good thing but let's not act like he's being altruistic here.
>>68249959
>Doom is a villain
Then why did he create a utopian society when he became omnipotent? Doom does all things for the benefit and betterment of mankind. This is a fact.
>>68249986
I was about to ask why he nuked Chicago but I see your point.
>>68249533
>I didnt really pay attention to Ironman 3
He was embarrassed by Tony earlier on in life.
>>68249998
>why he nuked Chicago
They had it coming.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b85ZCywAvR4
>>68248506
Because they don't have the rights to the good ones.
>>68249533
>Alexander Pierce
Even Pierce wasn't just lol evil nazi's
He legitimately believed he was going to make a better world. He drank the Hydra kool-aid. It's cherry flavor.
>>68250182
>It's cherry flavor
How would you know?Hail Hydra
>>68248506
I dont understand how you can go through each of them and not come to the conclusion that they are decent.
They don't have the rights to Doom.
>>68248813
>Zod
Zod wasn't even a villain. He did literally nothing wrong.
>>68248598
That's tv, where the villains yet full seasons to be developed. You almost CANT fuck that up
>>68254104
And they didn't have the rights to Spider-man, but now he's here.
Because they kill them off at the end of every movie.
> yfw 'Fun' is now a /tv/ buzzword
Went through this shit years ago on /v/
Cum on step it up.
>>68249240
They are building the Thunderbolts, the multimedia push they are getting now reminds of the GotG push shortly before the movie was announced.
>>68255104
Who are these Thunderbolts?
>>68248506
Am I the only one that kind of liked Ultron?
I mean the movie sucked shit overall but I liked the character
>>68248787
>tfw ultron will never come back
Fuck you vision
>>68248787
>Ultron can't come back, red skull can't come back.
Ultron is a program. He's got back-ups. He'll be back.
Red Skull's 'death' was left ambiguous and he was supposed to be the one who acted as a go-between for Thanos and Loki; just because Elrond Smith doesn't want to come back doesn't mean he won't be back.
Blonsky can be back. Ronan could even come back. The Real Mandarin could come around. Hell, Trevor could even become a legitimate threat in the future.
>>68255156
I'd have liked him if he'd been a little more reasonable, like, you know, a machine should be.
>>68255167
> Omnicient superbeing says "You're the last one"
> B-BUT HE HAS BACK UPS!
As much as i hate it, i actually agree with you. Marvel has shown time and time again character 'deaths' are pointless and get reversed on a whim, he'll definitely be back.
>>68248506
This.
They lack.. something. They weren't really that memorable and catchy..
>>68249005
kek.
>>68255143
A supergroup that surfaced after the major teams were killed by Onslaught.They were the Masters of Evil in disguise, headed by Zemo in a plan to take over the world after they got trusted enough. Some of the members liked the hero lifestyle and rebelled against him.
>>68255213
>'deaths' are pointless and get reversed on a whim
I don't follow.
>>68249299
Zod was a black mirror of Superman. He was what Superman could have been; willing to destroy an entire species to ensure the survival of his own. Instead, Superman decides to show that species how to become better than his own. Zod was tragically single-minded, a prime example of how Krypton's eugenics programs had failed them as a species.
Lex is just a megalomaniac faggot in ANY incarnation. All Star Superman did it best; he just wants to be Superman. Too bad he's too much of a faggot to be a good man.
Scarecrow was another faggot with issues.
Bane was also a faggot with issues.
Ra's was a mercenary with issues.
Joker is yet another faggot with issues.
>>68255275
> Winter Soldier: Nick Fury
> Avengers: Phil Coulson.
> Thor Dark World: Loki
> Captain America: Bucky
> Iron Man 3: Pepper Potts
Plus it could be argued Stark at the end of Iron Man and Thor at the end of the first Thor, but the above are more obvious and their deaths are used for dramatic effect then reversed because "who cares lol its capeshit."
>>68255344
Iron man at the end of Avengers*
Also probably Brodie / War Machine in this newest movie.
Character Death is used as a catalyst for character development in like 90% of Marvel Movies, and most of the time the characters who 'die' come back. At this point i literally do not care / believe any character 'dying' because they've shown they love abusing it to pull on the emotions of the viewers, to the point where i just assume any 'dead' character is going to come back.
Even in such a 'definitive' case as Ultron.
>>68255344
But Loki and Fury faked their own deaths and those were resolved within the same movie.
You were also ignorant of comics if you expected Bucky to be dead.
>>68255400
>most of the time the characters who 'die' come back
When you use hyperbole to this extent there's no point in talking with you.
>>68249864
He's jewish and a mutant, literally the jews of the Marvel universe.
He's like a Super Jew, of course he's not going to be portrayed as a villain, but we all know the truth.
>>68255434
The good thing about comic book movies is that they don't have to be slavishly faithful to the comic books because they're an entirely different medium, indeed i'd say the vast majority of viewers aren't aware of Comic characters or conventions, so their 'deaths' have the desired dramatic effect on the audience.
Seriously though, of the named, non-villain characters who have 'Died' in the movie, i know of, most of them come back at the end. Just because you 'Planned your own death' doesn't mean it's not a lazy writing convention of the makers of these movies looking to tease out some emotion in their otherwise bland ass action movie.
2bh i'm not even shitting on Marvel Movies, but this is an extremely repetitive and overused trope.
Also, even if they are 'planned' their use in the film as a catalyst works under the assumption that they are dead. When Loki starts off in Dark World, he is hated by his brother, then pulls out a seemingly sincere act of love for his brother, and both characters have some development, then it's just completely turned around in the end "LOL NOPE JUST A PRANK BRO!"
It's just lazy and overused at this point and i could see it for any of the other characters that have 'died' that we just haven't confirmed to be alive yet.
>>68255576
Well I want Red Skull to come back.
>>68255613
Probably will, just not Hugo Weaving.
>>68248813
LOL what a retard
>>68248506
Loki was only good in Thor. He was shit in Avengers. Just a punching bag like all Joss Whedon villains
>actor that played red skull won't reprise role because of how shit MCU films are
Got out of there while he could.
>>68255646
Loki was never good.
He's interesting as a trickster who torments the Aesir. He's fucking revolting as a cheap satan who torments humanity.
>>68255660
When Hugo Weaving (Agent Smith, Drag Queen, Elrond) considers you beneath him, there's your fucking sign.
It's a shame they get so little screen time. Here's a list of screen times for most MCU characters, skewed towards the shows, of course:
http://www.imdb.com/list/ls033828946/
Here's some of the short lived villains from OP's image:
>Ronan the Accuser
7 minutes 45 seconds
>Malekith the Accursed
8 minutes 45 seconds
>Ultron
14 minutes 30 seconds
>Trevor Slattery
15 minutes 15 seconds
>Johann Schmidt
15 minutes 30 seconds
>Abomination
18 minutes 5 seconds
>Whiplash
20 minutes 45 seconds
>Iron Monger
22 minutes
>>68249128
>all DC movies vs all Marvel movies
>Marvel wins both desu
Michelle Pfeiffer's Catwoman and Ledger's Joker alone curb stomp any of Marvel's movie villains, MCU or otherwise.
>>68249128
>>68255794
This.
>>68255794
Implying you'd still remember the Joker if the junkie hadn't offed himself.
>>68255794
Heath Ledger joker has no equal from MCU as far as anyone with a brain is concerned. But if we're talking contenders from other Marvel movies then Magneto? Not fassbender.
>>68255846
>look at me I'm pretending to be retarded
Marvelfag or not he was a good joker you can't be serious. You're like a minority if you disagree by the way.
>>68248506
>Loki
>Red Skull
>Winter Soldier
>Ultron
were all great
>Iron Monger
in all honesty was great but ultimately forgettable.
>Abomination
well I mean, it was cool seeing him fight Hulk.
>Whiplash
justerasemymemoryfam
>Mandarin
FUCKING MARVEL WHY DID YOU TREAT HIM LIKE THIS FUCK
>Thor 2 villain
literally forgot his name. Aether?
>Ronan
can't take him seriously after that dance off.
>>68248506
The best "villain" in comic books have always been other heroes with opposing views.
>>68255913
Neither a marvelfag nor a dcfag. Never even watched the motherfucker.
His only claim to fame is suicide.
>>68255917
Trevor Sletery is one of the best villian in cinema at all.
It's dumb shit made for teenagers, who cares.
Forgettable movies all of them.
