![batman-v-superman-dawn-of-justice-000220568[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/B7FSVJA.jpg "batman-v-superman-dawn-of-justice-000220568[1].jpg")
BvS is in my opinion a masterpiece. Now to the average moviegoer I can understand why they would think it was bad. The film is highly kinetic and allegorical. You have to think beyond the images presented on the screen. For example, the scene in which Lex presents the jar of piss to the Senator represents so much more. The jar of piss is Lex's vision of Superman. It has been propped up as "Granny's Peach Tea" just as Superman has been packaged as an AllAmerican symbol of freedom. But beneath the veneer it sitnks of piss. To the average moviegoer, they will look at this scene and say "HAHA! PISS BOTTLES EWW" with no regard for the greater motivations and images portrayed in this character drama.
Now the reason that I am worried is because WB now believes that this type of intellectually stimulating and philosophically moving cinematography is not appreciated by the masses. The masses want quips, explosions, smart-alecks, jocks, stereotypes, punchy punchy boom boom. The masses can't comprehend Snyder's masterfully crafted Biblical symbolism.
The masses want Marvel.
And this wouldn't be a problem, since this is a consumer market. I can choose to buy my authentic imported biscotti instead of that artificial Oreos nonsense. But the problem is if the biscotti manufacturers suddenly looked at Oreo's sales and said "hey, we need to start pumping our biscotti full of garbage artificial cream!"
Now that Civil BORE has a 100% RT score (thanks to corrupt critics taking that Disney dollar) WB is shifting its DCCU to ape the candyfloss Marvel universe. This is exactly what is happening with Suicide Squad right now with the reshoots. And this is likely what will happen to the DCCU after Justice League. And what we'll be left with are inferior mass market appeal movies designed to chase after the Marvel audience and failing.
I'm sick of it. We've been robbed of tremendous potential. All to movies designed to sell toys and make children laugh. Its pathetic.
Haha you took the time to type all that out.
What a loser.
>civil bore
Kek
>>68233294
this should be a pasta
>>68233333
Jeebus
>The jar of piss is Lex's vision of Superman.
kek
>>68233294
I'm not sure if you're serious or if this post is an elaborate satire.
It's literally too smart for Avengers senpaitachi. Just watch what happens with the dark xmen movie, it will get the same shit as BvS.
>designed to make children laugh
you finally hit on something at the end there....
>>68233294
oh friend, believe me, we've barely scratched the surface of this glorious piece of art
>>68233378
it is pasta
>>68233541
>it's supposed to be mindless entertainment!
Americlaps
>>68233294
>The jar of piss is Lex's vision of Superman
PRAISE SNYDER
VISIONARY GENIUS.
>>68233294
>Now that Civil BORE has a 100% RT score (thanks to corrupt critics taking that Disney dollar)
>>68233583
oh good
>>68233496
See, you are the exact kind of person I'm talking about. The kind of person who doesn't even understand what they're being told even when it is explicitly laid bare. The kind of person who can't see the BLATANT penis symbolism inherent in the Kryptonite staff. Just think about it for a moment. Batman domineering over Superman, threatening him with a massive phallic object designed to break him. Think about how it penetrates Doomsday but kills Superman in the process. THINK. THINK.
Oh no, wait, you don't have to do that anymore! You can go watch Civil BORE where they'll tell you everything! The whole story will be spoonfed to you in incredibly boring, totally completely organic and not at all artificial scenes where everyone sits together and takes turns presenting bits of the plot just like real people totally normally obviously do! Wow! So simple! Its almost like the movie was made for children!
People like you are why the DCCU we could have had is dead. Rot in hell you mongoloid.
>>68233694
>BLATANT penis symbolism
this is amazing
(my captcha for this post was selecting what images were pillars or columns)
>>68233694
>>68233294
Here's a list of Disney shill critics that are actively contributing to the death of art.
https://es.scribd.com/doc/308457900/Tweet-List
>>68233333
Quints for a marvel fag
>>68233763
So somebody actually made this post unironically?
>>68233815
WB are fucking idiots
How the fuck haven't they fired Snyder?
>>68233763
I actually feel better knowing that someone unironically posted this as opposed to someone just make a pasta for memeing.
this is the movie that will change the game.
I don't know what BvS is trying to do? IF you're not making movies for fans, why take on the band names?
>>68233987
I still think it was made ironically. The jar of piss is the give away.
>>68233960
What I want to know is how the writer of Pan got to do the script of a Wonder Woman movie. Is DC just one big Nepotism machine or something? What kind of corporate BS is going on there? I look forward to another soulless prequel with lines blatantly stolen from other movies, and a shitty plot.
>>68233294
There was a time above
a time before.
There were perfect things
diamond absolutes.
Things fall.
Things on earth.
And what falls
is fallen.
In the dream they took me to the light
a beautiful lie.
>A Zack Snyder slam
>>68234501
This poem was shit, I give you that. But the cinematography and soundtrack during the scene were so perfect I couldn't care less about the words.
>>68233294
>The masses want Marvel.
The masses want a film that doesn't fucking suck. TDK proved that you can do "intellectually stimulating and philosophically moving" movies, the problem is that BVS AND MOS ARE NOT THAT. You need a movie with a coherent fucking narrative plot before all that other shit.
Also
>intellectually stimulating and philosophically moving cinematography
cinematography refers to the actual capturing of the image, to have a good movie that shit needs to apply in the entire process of filmmaking. Are you 14?
>The masses can't comprehend Snyder's masterfully crafted Biblical symbolism.
FUCKING EVERYONE COMPREHENDS HIS "MASTERFULLY CRAFTED BIBLICAL SYMBOLISM." HE HAS VIKRAM GANDHI LITERALLY EXPLAIN IT TO THE AUDIENCE.
The problem isn't the symbolism. The problem is that it's overwhelmingly apparent that all Snyder gave a shit about was "the symbolism." The problem is that the surface story is fucking garbage.
Is this a goof? You're goofing right?
>>68233294
probably true
>>68233333
nice quints scott
Enjoy your lowest common denominator trash MCucks, true Kino awaits within Batman v Superman
Funny because 300 and Watchmen are his most reddit movies. True cinephiles do know that BvS is his best movie and one of the best movies of the decade period. Meme blog critics opinions are about worthless, they are pure shills to the hotpocket trendy culture.
>>68234763
>rating the second best X-Men film 5/10
what the fuck is wrong with this guy?
Will DCuck devastation ever reach a limit?
>>68233294
Nolan movies were smart and serious and critics and audicences love them
BvS is just trash you pretend is deep to handle its massive failure, Snyder is a terrible director
>>68234823
Seen it 12 times. There's a less terrible edit of the movie hidden in it, but as it is it's a bucket of dog shit.
I enjoyed BvS, I really did.
>>68234945
most reddit and pleb post I've ever read
>>68234945
Nolan movies make people feel smart. Synder makes movies to feel smart. The difference is between fellating the audience's ego and fellating one's own.
Nolan's movies are thus better entertainment.
>>68235073
Dude quit trying to turn BVS into /tv/. It'll eventually happen when everyone starts memeing all the self-important dumb shit in it, but it's not gonna be because it's actually a good movie.
>>68235318
This. Holy fuck this.
>>68235318
This, it's going to be
>STOP INVINCIBLE SON
all over when the BluRay comes out and people pirate it.
>>68235318
It IS a good movie.
>>68234945
>Nolan movies were smart
What? They were literally extremely dumb filled with plot holes and bad acting.
Where were Nolan movies smart?
>>68233294
Did this movie really have jars of piss in it
>>68235413
>2016
>not seeing BvS yet
Come on and get your meme on
>>68235388
>It IS a good movie.
Sure it is.
>>68235459
>paying for capeshit
>supporting jews
>in 2016
lmao
I will wait for a decent dvdrip
>>68235413
Name one good superhero movie that doesn't have jars of piss being snuck into congress
protip:you can
>>68235459
>supporting manlets
At least in CW one gets btfo.
>>68235725
Alright, let's play your game.
Even if I were to agree with you that the movie has plot holes, that the editing and pacing have some problems, etc. how can you say this is a "shit" film with such an amazing soundtrack, great cinematography, excellent visual effects (both practical and CGI) and overall good acting?
By all means this IS NOT a shit film.
I can see why you wouldn't like it as an average movie-goer. I can see why you wouldn't like it as a comic book fan (Batman killing dudez, etc.).
But if you trash the entire film and you are willing to skip past the objective qualities it has just because you want to be a meme master, how am I supposed to respond without resorting to insults?
This movie has some of the best shots I've seen in capeshit and no matter how bad the plot may be, the sheer visual pleasure this movie gave me is enough for me to place it way above garbage like The Avengers or most MCU flicks. And if you consider those films "good", then this Batman V Superman must be good as well.
>inb4 muh taste
>inb4 muh opinions
These are not opinions, these are facts.
>>68236020
>Alright, let's play your game.
That's what someone says when they want someone to play their game by creating a strawman game to play.
>how can you say this is a "shit" film with such an amazing soundtrack
I thought the Wonder Woman electric guitar theme was fucking awful. Lots of it took a distracting amount of cues from Inception. The score itself did nothing to tie together scene transitions or help keep the movie on pace. Up until the final fight it was song ends, scene ends, scene starts, song starts.
>great cinematography
It looks really good in a lot of parts, but that kind of gets lessened in the end when it turns into a videogame.
>excellent visual effects
non. Doomsday was distractingly bad. Even in the rain, at night, he still looked like a shitty cartoon.
>overall good acting
On Bafleck's side, yeah. Superman, Lois, and Morpheus were all fucking struggling through reading their retarded dialogue.
>By all means this IS NOT a shit film.
By almost every mean it is OVERWHELMINGLY a shit film.
>I can see why you wouldn't like it as an average movie-goer.
I'm not an average movie-goer. I majored in film and media studies, I work in the industry, I've watched BVS ~12 times.
>I can see why you wouldn't like it as a comic book fan (Batman killing dudez, etc.).
That doesn't help it. But that also offends TDK trilogy fans just as much.
>But if you trash the entire film and you are willing to skip past the objective qualities it has just because you want to be a meme master, how am I supposed to respond without resorting to insults?
That's a personal problem. Maybe don't create strawman to argue? I've never said there were positive elements and things that I liked in the film.
>And if you consider those films "good", then this Batman V Superman must be good as well.
You really like logical fallacy huh?
>These are not opinions, these are facts.
Almost every single thing you said was an opinion.
>>68236505
weren't*
>>68236505
>By almost every mean it is OVERWHELMINGLY a shit film.
Too bad democracy isn't the way to determine the quality of a film. Now go back to r e d d i t.
>>68233294
im going to be straight:
Peoples last reference about batman was the Nolan trilogy, peoples last reference about superman was the hyperaction dragonball thing.
So they go to the teathers and there is no "realistic batman" nor the "hyperaction movie"
The movie was really ok, but it wasnt the fast and furious/madmax/inception they were expecting.
So there is no debate about: Not even God is able to fulfill the desires of everyone
And thats why they are pissed off.
>>68233294
>BvS is in my opinion a masterpiece.
Stop reading here.
>>68236818
I'm sorry DCuck, it's you who should stick to Reddit.
ITT:DCucks STILL trying to defend the steaming pile that is BvS claiming its too highbrow and deep for the average viewer and it's not selling well because of planted shills bwhahaha, you can't make this shit up.
>>68236818
Too bad democracy isn't the way to determine the quality of a film. Now go back to r e d d i t.
I'm not using "democracy"...? I've studied the film. Taken scene by scene notes on it, even started working on an alt edit that could fix it. I think there's a lot of good things in there, just not in that order, or done that way.
>>68233294
Ishtar is in my opinion a masterpiece. Now to the average moviegoer I can understand why they would think it was bad. The film is highly kinetic and allegorical. You have to think beyond the images presented on the screen. For example, the scene in which Chuck Clarke dreams of becoming part of a singing duo like Simon & Garfunkel represents so much more. The open mic night is Chuck’s vision of Morocco. It has been propped up as “a singing gig“ just as Chuck has been packaged as an AllAmerican symbol of stupidity. But beneath the veneer he can’t sing. To the average moviegoer, they will look at this scene and say "HAHA! YOUR MUSIC IS LAME!” with no regard for the greater motivations and images portrayed in this character drama.
Now the reason that I am worried is because Columbia now believes that this type of intellectually stimulating and philosophically moving cinematography is not appreciated by the masses. The masses want quips, explosions, smart-alecks, jocks, stereotypes, punchy punchy boom boom. The masses can't comprehend Warren Beaty’s masterfully crafted Biblical symbolism.
The masses want Princess Bride.
And this wouldn't be a problem, since this is a consumer market. I can choose to buy my authentic imported biscotti instead of that artificial Oreos nonsense. But the problem is if the biscotti manufacturers suddenly looked at Oreo's sales and said "hey, we need to start pumping our biscotti full of garbage artificial cream!"
>>68237465
Now that Prince-less Died has a 97% RT score (thanks to corrupt critics taking that 20th Century Fox dollar) Columbia is shifting its Ishtar films to ape the candyfloss Goldman universe. This is exactly what is happening with The New Adventures of Pippi Longstocking right now with the reshoots. And this is likely what will happen to the Columbia after My Stepmother Is An Alien. And what we'll be left with are inferior mass market appeal movies designed to chase after the 20th Century Fox audience and failing.
I'm sick of it. We've been robbed of tremendous potential. All to movies designed to sell toys and make children laugh. Its pathetic.
>>68234731
>TDK proved that you can do "intellectually stimulating and philosophically moving" movies
TDK was basically a cop movie. That's why critics took it seriously.
You can have a serious movie with super-powers.
The Punisher? Can be serious. Batman? Can be serious. Captain America? Can be serious if you want to. Daredevil? Can be serious. Unbreakable? Serious.
But Superman? Fuck no.
>>68233294
>>68238306
>But Superman? Fuck no.
I think you could totally do a serious Superman that would be appealing to audiences and critics. Zack Snyder failed to do that. And it wasn't because it was "serious" or "deep," it was because it was poorly written and edited and tried too hard to be too grimdark for it's own good. Superman can be serious, but you have to start by fucking doing Superman right. It should have been standard Superman character, in a grimdark world. Instead he tried to do grimdark Superman in a grimdark world (as well as make a generally poorly-conceived movie).
MOS and BVS suck first and foremost because they fail many of the basic elements of filmmaking and screenwriting. All the other creative decision problems were just icing on the shitcake.
Batman V Superman is garbage, grow up and admit it, the movie is fucked to the core and no over analysis can fix that.
>>68233333
>>68233333
>>68233333
OP REKT HOLY SHIT
THIS WAS SUPPOSED TO BE OUR TIME BROS IT'S NOT FUCKING FAIR
>>68233294
Toxic Avenger is in my opinion a masterpiece. Now to the average moviegoer I can understand why they would think it was bad. The film is highly kinetic and allegorical. You have to think beyond the images presented on the screen. For example, the scene in which Melvin falls into the toxic waste represents so much more. The waste is America's vision of Superman. Radioactivity has been propped up as bad just as Superman has been packaged as an AllAmerican symbol of freedom. But beneath the veneer it sitnks of piss. To the average moviegoer, they will look at this scene and say "HAHA! TOXIC WASTE EWW" with no regard for the greater motivations and images portrayed in this character drama.
Now the reason that I am worried is because Troma now believes that this type of intellectually stimulating and philosophically moving cinematography is not appreciated by the masses. The masses want quips, explosions, smart-alecks, jocks, stereotypes, punchy punchy boom boom. The masses can't comprehend Lloyd Kaufman's masterfully crafted Biblical symbolism.
The masses want Driving Miss Daisy.
And this wouldn't be a problem, since this is a consumer market. I can choose to buy my authentic imported biscotti instead of that artificial Oreos nonsense. But the problem is if the biscotti manufacturers suddenly looked at Oreo's sales and said "hey, we need to start pumping our biscotti full of garbage artificial cream!"
I'm sick of it. We've been robbed of tremendous potential. All to movies designed to sell toys and make children laugh. Its pathetic.
I've been avoiding all BvS threads because I didn't want autizmoz spoiling ir lt for me. Now I've watched if, I take it this is a pasta by now but I agree with it/ you OP
The movie was great the reason why idiots didn't like it was because it didn't have the pop cultural references and """""""hilarious"""""""" one liners and jokes that the marvel universe has accustomed man children, and the big bang theory I'm such a nerd xddd demographic to.
I hope they don't change the tone of the next movies too much, this was the closest thing to capekino since watchmen.
Did it really bomb?
>>68234055
> it's not the same as nola waaaaaah
>>68240119
It did have "pop cultural references" and it did have """""""hilarious"""""""" one liners and jokes." Problem was the the references were from "intro to symbolism" and the jokes were "fucking shit."
>I hope they don't change the tone of the next movies too much, this was the closest thing to capekino since watchmen.
Yeah because he just turned fucking Batman into Rorschach in a Nite Owl costume and turned Superman into Dr. Manhattan. He already made that goddamn movie.
>>68240119
>"""""""hilarious""""""""
If you want to be taken seriously, don't do stuff like this.
>>68234945
Great arguments did you transcribe them from a Facebook funny movie memes fan page?
>>68240311
>Yeah because he just turned fucking Batman into Rorschach in a Nite Owl costume and turned Superman into Dr. Manhattan. He already made that goddamn movie.
Are you trolling ?
Moore was literally going to use characters of the DC universe to write watchmen but didn't get the rights so he had to invent new ones based on the already existing ones.
Dr Manhattan IS superman ie God only super human
Rorschach and Nightowl were based of Batman
>>68238890
>I think you could totally do a serious Superman that would be appealing to audiences and critics. Zack Snyder failed to do that. And it wasn't because it was "serious" or "deep," it was because it was poorly written and edited and tried too hard to be too grimdark for it's own good. Superman can be serious, but you have to start by fucking doing Superman right. It should have been standard Superman character, in a grimdark world. Instead he tried to do grimdark Superman in a grimdark world (as well as make a generally poorly-conceived movie).
You can't and there was nothing grimdark about Superman. The movies aren't poorly scripted or executed as well. People just don't want to see superpowered crap taken seriously.
>>68234945
nolan functions as a way to signal one's own smartness
i remember during inception all anyone would talk about was if you were able to follow the plot
people would present themselves as smart for being able to follow the dream in a dream in a dream even though the movie reminded you every chance it had.
not to say that nolan's movies are bad, but their being smart is usually dependent on the audience feeling puffed up for being able to follow along. one of nolan's favorite plays is to keep the audiences attention on the plot while hiding the movie's meaning in plain sight. memento is the most clear in this, the prestige lets you know from the beginning what the movie is, and inception has the viewer distracted with it's logic of dreams and the top
bvs takes you by the hand and starts running. it assumes you already know and are familiar with a lot of characters and concepts. most of the negative reactions come of the dissonance and not the movie itself, of course, don't misconstrue my statements as an argument in favor of the movie
>>68240820
>Dr Manhattan IS superman ie God only super human
>Rorschach and Nightowl were based of Batman
NO SHIT. They were extreme versions of the characters to deconstruct them and their world.
This isn't watchmen, and Batman and Superman shouldn't have been knockoffs of their parodies.
It's fucking weak, uninspired character character writing, and Snyder has LITERALLY already made that movie. It's evidently clear that the extent of Snyder's comic inspiration is Watchmen and TDKR.
>>68242808
brah did you even watch the movie
where the fuck do you get off comparing bruce wayne to rorschach, or even clark to mr manhattan? that guy's whole shtick is >muh i see the strings
clark fucking cares about what he does, his whole internal struggle being that he's not sure if he has a place in the world, the movie could not have been more clear in this
>>68233333
DCucks buttmadd is fueling pro MCU meme magic. Praise KEK. Witnessed.
>>68243886
>clark fucking cares about what he does, his whole internal struggle being that he's not sure if he has a place in the world, the movie could not have been more clear in this
He literally says that the S hope symbol meant something on his world, but it means nothing on this one. He says that Superman is a lie. That is the last thing he does before he gets tricked into fighting and dying at the end. He is jaded by his power and is shown having lost faith in humanity, and is never shown to have recovered it. They Dr. Manhattaned the fuck out of him.
>where the fuck do you get off comparing bruce wayne to rorschach
Murders people without remorse. Is obsessive and brutal and objectivist until the magic MARTHA triggerword turned him into Nite Owl.
>>68244165
what you're describing is called doubt, anon
>a feeling of uncertainty or lack of conviction
which he clearly does not lack by the time the big cg fights comes around, and clearly isn't a problem after his >just do your best speech from his father
seriously, this isn't hard to grasp
in regards to bruce, he does what he does because of his own doubts on his legacy, again, something that's made clear throughout the movie. completely different. (but, it is capeshit. so really, how much space is there really between all these characters)
>>68244400
>and clearly isn't a problem after his >just do your best speech from his father
JUST DO YOUR BEST?
His dream dad tells a story about how his efforts to save the farm led to completely fucking over his neighbors. "Eating hero cake while the neighbor's horses screamed."
Also, his dad dream came before his talk with Lois, which ends in him saying there's no point. The next time he is seen after that is when he saves Lois. The only reason any of the shit happened in the cartoon fight was because of his love for Lois, then his mom, then having to deal with the big monster.
>seriously, this isn't hard to grasp
yeah if you makeup headcanon to make it "easier"
>in regards to bruce, he does what he does because of his own doubts on his legacy, again, something that's made clear throughout the movie.
Eh it's mostly vaguely hinted at a few times, generally spelled out in his convo with Alfred, but he's still not behaving like Batman. He's acting like Rorschach Batman. His edgy cynicism in the opening prologue, his "hunter" monologue, even the idea that he wants to die killing Superman, it's all way closer to Rorschach's mentality than Batman's.
>>68241213
>You can't and there was nothing grimdark about Superman.
In BVS? He has a dream where is dad talks about "eating hero cake while the neighbor's horses screamed." His last scene before the final fight is about how Superman is a lie and the symbol means nothing on Earth. His hero montage is set to depressing music, in the rain, with flat tones, and ends with a bunch of mexican peasants worshiping while he looks at them with a sad face. That's fucking grimdark.
>The movies aren't poorly scripted
They are exceptionally poorly scripted.
>or executed as well.
They were well shot, and insanely poorly-edited.
>People just don't want to see superpowered crap taken seriously.
TDK. People want to see good movies first, then the tone can pretty much be whatever, as long as it works and is well done. The problem is nobody other than Nolan has managed to do pull it off, and everyone that has tried has embarrassed themselves trying.
>>68244772
and what does clark say right after his dad tells him that story?
"does the screaming ever stop"
and his dad tells him about how he found martha and to just hope for the best, as he can't possibly know everything.
seriously, you're quoting something and completely disregarding the totality of the conversation
it's clearly implied that that conversation became clark's new state of mind
>this is my world, lois. you're my world
loving a person in particular doesn't mean you only love that person and no one else. besides, the dialogue clearly equated the love he feels for her being something that is for the whole world
shit, i'd rather you say that that idea itself doesn't make sense rather than continuing to say that clark is some cold and distant figure.
it's not headcannon, the movie spells it out. hell, in lieu of being dismissed all the time i've actually taken to watching actor and director interviews, all them confirm what i'm saying.
the connection you're making between batman and rorschach is too general, and besides, the whole point of the movie is that bruce finds truth by the end through clark. his crusade as batman was the beautiful lie that he used to escape the powerlessness he felt as a child, by the end he finds hope. the movie logo itself conveys this as well.
and this connection you're making is one that can be made about any brutal character with a serious personality
>>68245396
how many people have you seen? how do people get to the conclusion that this movie is grim or otherwise dark
shit, the whole message of the movie is hope in the face of cynicism,
this isn't fucking irreversible or 120 days of sodom
>>68245434
>and his dad tells him about how he found martha and to just hope for the best, as he can't possibly know everything.
Find a wife to give you meaning and distract you from the bad shit. Real inspiring message for the character who is supposed to sacrifice himself in the last act.
>it's clearly implied that that conversation became clark's new state of mind
It isn't. He is immediately shown after that telling Lois it's all a lie.
>it's not headcannon, the movie spells it out
It spells out Lois horseshit. It doesn't spell out why he should be a fucking hero. He basically gets told the same shit you tell someone dealing with clinical depression. Real great Superman you got there.
> i've actually taken to watching actor and director interviews, all them confirm what i'm saying.
So people justifying and explaining what the film failed to convey.
>the connection you're making between batman and rorschach is too general
And your nitpicking of a general statement is too autistic. His general attitude is more cynical and objectivist than standard Batman, and he murders people. That makes him closer to Rorschach than it does to fucking Batman.
>the whole point of the movie is that bruce finds truth by the end through clark.
Which is? And how is that conveyed?
Because their mom's both have the same name? Because at the end he's shown to realize that forming a JL is the only way they can survive against Supermen and monsters?
>by the end he finds hope.
and how is this portrayed?
>and this connection you're making is one that can be made about any brutal character with a serious personality
Except BATMAN'S ENTIRE FUCKING POINT HAS BEEN THAT NOT MURDERING PEOPLE IS WHAT SEPARATES HIM FROM THEM. KILLER BATMAN IS NOW THE PUNISHER, IS NOW RORSCHACH.
>>68245685
how many *movies* have you seen, fuck me
>>68245688
>Find a wife to give you meaning and distract you from the bad shit. Real inspiring message for the character who is supposed to sacrifice himself in the last act.
not at all, it's the sense of home and belonging that comes with love, i don't know why you're trying to twist this into a LMao fuck bitches clark who cares type of thing
>It isn't. He is immediately shown after that telling Lois it's all a lie.
he tells lois that before he flies off
>It spells out Lois horseshit. It doesn't spell out why he should be a fucking hero. He basically gets told the same shit you tell someone dealing with clinical depression. Real great Superman you got there.
no, again, he has doubts about whether or not superman has a place in the world, doubts about this grand life purpose he has set out for. that's it
>So people justifying and explaining what the film failed to convey.
it conveyed it to me at first viewing, i don't know what to make of this
>And your nitpicking of a general statement is too autistic. His general attitude is more cynical and objectivist than standard Batman, and he murders people. That makes him closer to Rorschach than it does to fucking Batman.
okay
>Which is? And how is that conveyed?
"i failed him in life, i won't fail him in death" "men are still good"
"if you seek his monument, look around you"
>Because their mom's both have the same name? Because at the end he's shown to realize that forming a JL is the only way they can survive against Supermen and monsters?
no, simply that there is a better path in working together, the mom thing was just to paint him as someone that's fucked in the head,
>and how is this portrayed?
through his statements
>Except BATMAN'S ENTIRE FUCKING POINT HAS BEEN THAT NOT MURDERING PEOPLE IS WHAT SEPARATES HIM FROM THEM. KILLER BATMAN IS NOW THE PUNISHER, IS NOW RORSCHACH.
not totally, none of these characters have existed in complete vacuums. i don't get why people care about this detail so much
>>68245685
>how many people have you seen?
You mean like this year? Or in general? Idk man. I academically studied film and media production and history for undergrad. I used to watch around 500-600 movies a year. Looks like I watched 52 movies released in 2015.
>how do people get to the conclusion that this movie is grim or otherwise dark
It is grim and dark both in terms of production design and lighting, and in terms of the subtext, imagery, and the literal content of the script.
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grimdark
>shorthand for a subgenre of fantasy fiction that claims to trade on the psychology of those sword-toting heroes, and the dark realism behind all those kingdom politics"
>characters have to choose between good and evil, and are "just as lost as we are"
>"a retreat into the valorisation of darkness for darkness's sake, into a kind of nihilism that portrays right action (...) as either impossible or futile"
It's like he wrote the Pa Kent dream after reading about what grimdark is.
>shit, the whole message of the movie is hope in the face of cynicism
non
>this isn't fucking irreversible or 120 days of sodom
It isn't supposed to be. The fact that you feel the need to differentiate them says a lot.
>>68233294
Dude, it's a movie about an old man in a bra costume fighting an alien. It's not exactly the evangelion of comic book movies
>>68245984
Thought I misread that as how many movies have I seen. What do you mean how many people have I seen?
>>68246031
Oh you did say movies
>>68233294
>>68245928
>not at all, it's the sense of home and belonging that comes with love, i don't know why you're trying to twist this into a LMao fuck bitches clark who cares type of thing
I'm not. It's not an inspiring message. It's a depressive, almost nihilist way of justifying why you should keep trying.
>he tells lois that before he flies off
Yeah. That's the last line before the third act clusterfuck.
In TDK, after the lowpoint where Rachel dies, you see Batman have a depressed scene, and then you see Batman have a scene with Alfred where he is motivated to continue before the finale. That doesn't happen in BVS.
>no, again, he has doubts about whether or not superman has a place in the world, doubts about this grand life purpose he has set out for. that's it
Which are boring, existential angsty teen bullshit for him to still be dealing with (in such a poorly executed manner) in his second movie. His beef with batman and motivation to act should be based on the strength of his convictions, not his lack of them. 2 movies of people giving him shitty advice, him being uncertain, and kind of just being manipulated or stumbling into doing hero shit at the end of the movie.
>"i failed him in life, i won't fail him in death" "men are still good"
"if you seek his monument, look around you"
No I get THAT he is changed, there just wasn't really a well-written reason why. Batman needed to be at that point for the end credits, but the character reversal of MARTHA didn't say why and fuck you if you say "it's because it humanized him" or whatever the fuck else.
> the mom thing was just to paint him as someone that's fucked in the head,
Nice justification for bad writing. Oh the character's just psychotic, their behavior doesn't need to make sense.
>i don't get why people care about this detail so much
NOT A FUCKING DETAIL. IT'S HIS DEFINING TRAIT. And you can't say something is a good movie and then dismiss criticism as "details"
>>68233294
>The jar of piss is Lex's vision of Superman. It has been propped up as "Granny's Peach Tea" just as Superman has been packaged as an AllAmerican symbol of freedom.
i think it was more Lex saying what a sham the whole thing was and being dismissive like a psychopath. That the whole thing is just talk subjugated to real action and at best it serves it as a tool. The granny tea was a callback to how you can call anything by another name and it appears when the senator is saying how "in democracy we talk" or something else as ludicrous as Superman standing in a boring brown "power is dangerous" political scene.
Snyder seems to be essentially a Ayn Rand bro who evolved past it and really enjoys and admires charity and being selfless but still has the usual Randian hate for the hand wringing democracy, common commie stuff etc
As a leftist I at least respect a work with a different view from mine that isn't doing propaganda but breathing its own thing. The loathing for the little people talking (with the exception of Wally) while admiring Bruce for exerting pure power is admirable. It's refreshing and jarring to the point critics freak out
>>68233821
Are you making lists of people that liked Civil War? Jesus Christ you autists are fucking discomforting.
>>68233821
>this mad DCuck is making a list of people who liked Civil War
Jesus fucking christ.
>>68246468
It was more that it's a thing that she said, so now he made it a thing to do before she dies for drama. Doesn't represent shit other than make it clear to the audience that Lex planned it.
>>68246513
it's right as she's saying how in democracy we talk bla bla bla.
The movie makes a point that such power would be dangerous "but at the same time holy shit fuck these untermensch pundits" it's almost funny
>>68246435
how you feel about batman killing is not criticism, anon
>>68246718
It is absolutely criticism. DAE reading comprehension?
>>68246810
Brazil please leave.
>>68233333
nice quips and quints
>>68246435
i don't see the depressive nihilism you're referring to
no, he tells her before he disappears, then he talks with his dad, then he comes back right on time, then he has his talk with lex
he has a scene with his dad where he is motivated to keep trying
okay, it sucks. it's still there
maybe it is boring but no human has ever had to deal with that kind of pressure so i don't mind it all. especially since he wasn't edgy or angsty at all. he simply was confronted with a situation and didn't know what to do in the face of it.
don't really mind any of what you're saying here.
the martha thing is just a moment of self reflection, the humanization of clark doesn't come until after his sacrifice.
okay, this is shit too, it's still there
dude, being mad at movie for how it uses a certain character detail is not criticism, you've been talking about shitty writing but this dismissal doesn't cut it
and hey, i'm not even saying it's a good movie, i just think most of the shit thrown it at is petty and inconsistent. doesn't make it the best movie ever. doesn't make it shit either
Lex saying ding ding ding ding ding ding ding was an allegorical allusion to the ringing of the Liberty Bell, signifying how the Earth would soon again be cleansed of the super powered being who subverts normalcy and threatens the freedom of the universe.
>>68246810
ayyyyeeee i feel that god asking abraham to kill his son is wrong,
i guess that makes the whole bible shit
ayyyee batman uses the vigilante as a way to fight crime instead of purely fighting for the liberation of oppressed lower classes. i guess he's a shit character.
ayyee adaptation plays around with a certain idea i have associated with a certain character makes it automatically shit regardless of context and how it's used in relation to the rest of the text
the people he fought in the movie had every chance to drop what they were doing and choose a different path. i don't feel sympathy for them.
besides, batman doesn't work unless there is fear, and there i only fear if you know there is a good chance of you getting fucked up. although who knows, none of the guys in the warehouse seemed particularly scared
>>68233294
Fuck, did everybody miss the point of the jar of piss scene?
>"Hurr-durr, jar of piss, this is so stupid!"
>"The jar of piss is Lex's vision of Superman. It has been propped up as "Granny's Peach Tea" just as Superman has been packaged as an AllAmerican symbol of freedom. But beneath the veneer it sitnks of piss."
It was a message. "Fuck you. Sincerely, Lex." Her last moments alive would be with Lex in her head. How is this so difficult to understand?
>>68247348
Because the stupid people who hate the movie are just as bad as the stupid people who love it. Stupid people in general just suck.
Mylack ofdubs says that BvS will not win an Oscar
>>68249029
Obviously, the fucking Mouse is pouring money into the pocket of anyone who can harm this masterpiece.
>>68233294
Am I supposed to read all of this written diarrhea?
>>68233294
>tfw live in Toronto
>they were reshooting SS on my street the other day
>know buddy on set
>asked him why they came back
They were here all last summer btw
>said that WB was pissed after BvS and they are basically remaking SS in 6 weeks
Gg MCUcks, you ruined cinema
>>68233294
BvS is in my opinion absolute dogshit.
>>68233294
>muh symbolism
Fuck yourself in the ass.
