That is what Punisher is, he's not just a random crazy guy killing for the sake of it.

>>67390271
Even if that's true, it's still his origin. He transformed into the absolute Frankman by the end of it.

>>67390322
He is not "random crazy", but canonically one and is being called out as such by every character he met.

>>67390271
I thought that grounded his character a little into reality while still having enough plot armor to move him thru the story under unrealistic (comic book) circumstances

Tom Jane punisher is best punisher

>>67390271
>trained to be methodical, smart, composed
>also a hero
>HES TOO SANE WE NEED A MADMAN

>>67390271
>Wheres the clear MADMAN that real Punisher is?

There are very few instances where that Punisher exists. Firebase Valley Forge is one of those few instances and the Show hints at that with talk of what happened at Kandahar. Frank has always been very methodical and composed when he went after his targets.

>>67390271
>as representation of Marvel hero, Punisher display in Daredevil was shit.
>
>Reason - he`s too sane. He`s basically typical GI Joe on revenge spree, what can be seen in 90% of Hollywood action movies.
Really now? Not many "hollywood action movies" have a well trained guy who decided to clean his city by violently murdering criminals. You get revenge stories, even from the punisher movies. But once they're done avenging their families, or their love interest or whatever, they're done. They either get killed, go to prison or stop with the avenging forever.
Frank started a war on organized crime and it never stops for him, he has no doubts or second thoughts about what he does, he just keeps going,
This keeps getting him into weird places which is what makes the character compelling and unique.

The only real problem I saw with the portrayal (besides the waddle while walking) was all the yelling and outrage. He's usually more of a cold type of rage guy, getting even instead of mad.

>>67390377
>but canonically one and is being called out as such by every character he met.
Except, once you look at the people calling him insane, you start to wonder if he's the only sane person in a world of madmen.
You have a city overrun with crime families, smack pushers, rapists and murderers. The people supposed to protect you are so corrupt and/or incompetent, they might as well not be there at all. Is the sane thing to put on a bright costume and slap them on the wrist every now and then, or to up the ante and put them in the ground so they can't hurt anyone else?
Frank was right, all of the time.

>>67390271
>Wheres the clear MADMAN that real Punisher is? This is like vanila version of him. He`s not just soldier with million guns on rampage - what makes him different from normal action heroes, is he trully instils horror in the criminals and allies alike.
do you not understand how setting up a true anti-hero works? you have to start by making him sympathetic, then you begin the downward spiral

and did you even watch the show? it was clearly explained that he has a mental condition that keeps him in a state of perpetual rage, he's only superficially sane

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>rapes the only woman who helped with his emotional issues

Yeah.

Sane.

>>67391403
Stop trying to force this. It's as shit as that Spider-man dog frisbee bullshit.

Enjoy your free you.

>>67390271
The only cons I have about Castle's portrayal are the yelling and anger when questioned and the southern accent (and parts of the acting in general but that might just be the writers fault). Punisher wouldn't get into a shouting match with DD on the rooftop like he did, he'd probably answer DD's questions much more calmly and simply. He's never been insecure really about who he is or why he does what he does, but I guess you could just say he develops into that later and this is just early in his career.

>>67391744
If we're going by the comics, he was always like that, even during nam. He's always collected to the point of being creepy. He unsettled even nick fury.

I was annoyed that they went with the "he has brain damage!" thing. Yeah he rejects it, but they have an entire scene dedicated to his brain damage and how it makes him crazy.

The Punisher doesn't need an excuse. Does a shark need am excuse to eat?

My other issue: Punisher talked too much. He usually only talks when he needs to, and even then he uses a minimum of words. He doesn't crack jokes (when he does, they're excessively dry) and he doesn't have emotional opening ups to Daredevil and company, as much as I loved the graveyard scene and thought it was one of the best moments of the season.

He wasn't bad, just not what I expected from the character.

Also

>no three way team up between Punisher, Elektra, and Daredevil

They had 70 fight scenes in the last 4 episodes, they couldn't spice it up a little?

>>67390271
he should have used his x ray as a punisher symbol that would be fresh and cool

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>>67391744
I disagree. The fact of the matter is its a punisher origin story. He has NOT yet become the punisher (despite the codename), he simply enacts his revenge on the mafia. I'd argue the pawn shop is actually where the persona emerges.

he has not ONCE had to justify himself till his shout match with Red on the rooftop. That made the scene fucking REAL.


I hate when characters are able to give monotone dialogues and every argument is perfect and we'll countered. It's like they're all masters of a debate team and reading a script. That scene legitimately felt like two people disagreeing over morality.

>>67392722
I'm seconding this opinion.

You obviously never read Punisher, then. Or maybe just some minis about Punisher in some war and think his modus operandi is the same as it is in Hell's Kitchen.

>>67392594
I actually like the new symbol, it's my favorite. And they fixed daredevils suit so I'm happy. That's a cool idea but a cheesy execution.
> dude frank castle walks around with his own xray ironed on his shirt, lmao
Versus this wicked skull that implies you're next.

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>>67390271
>him going off in the courtroom
>not displaying that he's a madman

I will say all the Netflix shit actually got me motivated to read punisher and Daredevil after skipping over them my whole adult life. Got to say I enjoy the show more than I do the books, really,really rare thing for me to say. I mean punisher max was always good, but Daredevil seemed to have quite a lot of hits and misses. Jessica Jones is still a recent Bendis project and Luke cage also only had a string of good hits after 2000. I hope they do iron fist as well as they've done everyone else.

>>67392370
>My other issue: Punisher talked too much.
Unfortunately this works much better in the comics because they can show his thoughts through internalized monologues which is much harder to pull off in a movie or TV show.

>>67393008
He went crazy in court so he could talk to Fisk in prison.

Remember the guard telling him to take the fall?

>>67393159
Fair enough.

One of the things that is being missed is the fact that Frank is very much new to his roll as the Punisher in the show. In the comics he has been at his craft for years and has had the time to move on from grieving psychopath into just a psychopath.

>>67390271
>as representation of Marvel hero, Punisher display in Daredevil was shit.
I agree. it was a good pref romance but even as the origin point I found this Punisher to be overly emotional and openly broken.I did not mind it, its a different version like the king pin but its not the true Punisher

So, is Daredevil just a device used to highlight other characters? Season one was good, but the only great part was the Kingpin. Season two was good, but the only great part was Frank.

>>67393324
Whatever will season 3 give us?

>>67393346
Bullseye?

>>67393352
Is he going to kill someone with a toothpick?

>>67391403
wrong movie, anon. that was sicario

You're completely wrong, but there's one bit.

He didn't have enough gravitas at the start of the season. The Punisher IS supposed to inspire fear, but not because of unhinged madness or anger. It's because he's the opposite of that. He's methodical. He's surgical. Frank Castle is a force of nature, he isn't some lunatic that's doing it for no reason.

Frank Castle is a man. That's why criminals run in fear.

Honestly, Elektra and the Chaste almost ruined the season for me.

Am I alone in actually enjoying the "Karen's Misadventures in Reporting and Shit"? That and Frank are probably the only parts I didn't have to fight off skipping over.

>>67393324
well what would you say is interesting about Daredevil?

>>67393610
>Karen's Misadventures in Reporting
started skipping her shit in latter episodes

>>67393574
me too.foreign language did not get better, also was "the hand" always named "the hand of darkness"?

>>67390271

This Daredevil version is actually far better; he's actually sane enough to make arguements to his method, rather than the fucking madman that blows up islands.

I mean, fucking seriously. Comic Frank is a mass murderer that should have every superhero on yhe planet up his ass. TV Frank is just low key enough to do what he does without getting big capes shitting on him. He's street level.

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>>67390271
>Punisher display in Daredevil was shit.

OP you obviously know nothing about the Punisher.

Like zero.

>>67393784
He's a catholic, he has this constant suffering theme going on.

>>67394143
why should I give a fuck?where should my empathy come from instead of saying "get over it or get out of the game" spiderman has had that shit as a subplot instead of it being the main thing.

>>67393415
Micro is big factor in that. Next season will be interesting.

>>67394458
I'm going to be pissed if it's some bullshit like a government created computer program.

Also what the fuck was up with Frank's old colonel being a druglord? it made absolutely no sense in context, it's like they just wanted to end the story but didn't know how

>>67393346
Have you seen how much they're setting up the 'Born Again' storyline?

Links to Karen's past, Kingpin's threats to 'find out who he is and ruin his life' as well as Nuke from the Jessica Jones series

>>67394651
>'Born Again' storyline
I don't actually read the comics so I don't know what that is.

>>67394678
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Born_Again_%28comics%29

Basically everything that has been set up in DD so far kind of perfectly fits into it, it'll probably be the (vague) plot of the next season

>>67394714
I see. Neat.

>>67394627
>Frank's old colonel being a druglord
Was he the blacksmith? I thought he was just trying to actively cover up the murder of his family for other reasons, and the blacksmith just hasn't been found yet.

>>67394766
Even still...why try to cover it up? Every now and then people try to dress up the Castle family deaths, but honestly the character works better if they were just the result of random violence.

>>67393815
I don't remembering stick saying anything in japanese in S1.

plus, Yami no Te sounds better than just Te

>>67394627
>>67394766
>>67394813
I was under the impression that he was the Blacksmith, that most of the guys in his and Frank's old platoon were now working with him in some capacity. Frank was approached about it at least once. Maybe they found some heroin plantation in Kandahar?

I didn't think that he was trying to cover anything up. The DA was trying to cover up the massacre because it was a result of their botched sting. The Blacksmith was just tying off loose ends at the end there.

I enjoyed a good bit of Season 2, mostly being impressed with Jon's Punisher, setting him up for either his own show, or to be further included in continued seasons of Daredevil.

But after just finishing the last episode, what really made me step back and think "How is this so fucking awfully written?"

Elektra, after being stabbed, is held by DD and they're given like..two minutes of dialog as ninjas stand literally right next to them, Nobu still alive and 'chilling', and the big delivered line of the script for the scene is 'I know what it's like to feel GOOD."

Like, was this scene written by a 6 year old? How fucking garbage and flat is that?

>>67394714
>karen turns into a junkie porn actress
I don't think I can handle this.

>>67395158
Not just turns into a junkie porn actress, reverts BACK into a junkie porn actress. Remember how she saw her file at the newspaper place and started to cry? Thats what she saw

>>67395158
I don't think they're going to take that route, though.

In my opinion if they were it would have been set up through the season. I'm betting if anything they'll use her past for leverage.

I paused and read a little on the newspaper clippings Ben had of her and it mentions her brother dying in a mysterious car accident.

I'll be so pissed if it turns out it's some minor shit like "I was joking around in the car and he veered off the road and it's all my fault waahhh" bullshit though.

>>67394714
>Avengers show up in the comics

We may get an episode or two cameo from one of the big characters. Considering civil war and the next avengers movie are looming, I doubt it. Sad. I'd like to see Captain America and Frank interact.

>>67395203
That piece had something about a car crash that included one of her family members (probably father) though.

>>67395135
Nah, I was okay with that.
The ninjas + Nobu worked entirely for the point of the Black sky, and she just died. They were probably a little lost for what to do. The only reason the fighting started again is because nobu got depressed and went 'fuck it, kill him'

>>67395273
>Captain America and Frank
I never read any comics, but cinematic universe Captain would probably see Frank as just an insane criminal.

>>67395378
Which would be interesting if, like in the comics, Frank once looked up to Cap when he was a kid.

>>67390271
This season of Daredevil was fucking shit desu. Absolutely boring, page and matts romance was short lived and if anything showed that they arent meant to be together regardless if he's daredevil or not (that first date is a perfect representation of why you dont date really good friends/co-workers)

Elektra was decent, punisher was decent, but it just felt like there was no direction at all. And then boom, the hand comes out of nowhere with these kids being drained of blood and some ancient stone tomb or some shit oh btw elektra is black sky lol

they still havent even explained what the black sky is other than HURR IT KILLS PEOPLE LOL like elektra wasnt already doing that before she found out

Just a really boring/directionless season. They need Fisk back in the picture ASAP

>>67392370
The travesty wasn't that they didn't have a teamup, it's that they set up the final fight as being impossible odds and then had DD and Elektra beat all of them instead of Frank legitimately saving DD. They even teased the minigun the end of the previous episode. It's like they straight up ran out of budget and could have the "Frank mows down ninjas" scene they actually wanted to do.

>>67395378
Well the interaction mostly comes from 'oh shit we started the same way'

>>67395103
Nah, he pretty much explicitly says to Frank that the whole setup was to kill Frank to cover up what happened in Kandahar.

>>67395203
The newspaper article was about a teen dying in an accident.

Do you think Wolverine needs to be portrayed more insane too?

Because they have similar mindsets. Not all life is precious, most of it is but some don't deserve it because of what they do to others. Punished just uses guns and smarts.

Punisher can get mad, as in angry. But he is no crazier than Spiderman.

>>67395765
Really? What happened in Kandahar then? Was Frank sticking his nose in and investigating their drug ring? That shit just seemed so rushed at the end. And of course the guy is conveniently killed off so he can't exposition dump. And lol he happened to stumble into a random shed in the woods that's chock full of guns and ammo?

>>67395927
That was likely the generals gun hideout, but yeah, it felt pretty random.

>>67395927
It's implied it was government shit rather than the General himself by how he said it. That shit went down in Kandahar during the war and Frank was involved in it and therefore knew about it.

>one batch two batch
>penny and a dime

>>67396487
>>67396695
>>67395765
Well shit. I liked it better when I thought it was all tied to Blacksmith's drug smuggling ring. I like the premise of ex soldiers utilizing their contacts to sell narcotics. Like the bad guys in Lethal Weapon 1. Seemed more organic and less rail roaded.

>Blacksmith and his compatriots start a drug ring
>selling pure Afghani shit to the biggest gangs in the City
>his contacts tip the Blacksmith off about a sting at his latest deal
>he doesn't show
>massacre ensues
>attempts to cover up the Castle family only begin after the fact

That seems more organic than "lol the entire massacre was orchestrated to take out the Castles"

>>67396967
Well Punisher MAX, selling heroin is a CIA thing to get funding for future missions, Micro and the completely classified mission certainly brings more weight to it maybe being that.

If it's CIA then I can more see it being possible and better fitting; these were just tools for much more powerful and scary men, who would definitely commit a concealed murder to kill someone with knowledge. Especially if it thins the herd of operation as well.

>>67397483
I hope they go that way. I'd like to see Season 3 of Daredevil keep Frank on board and him and DD team up to take down the CIA/Blacksmith organization/drug ring. I'm also thinking that the Colonel wasn't THE Blacksmith, just an associate. The Blacksmith is either a higher up, CIA like you suggested, or just a name for the group as a whole.