so was he actually an amazing teacher or just a fucking asshole?
Both
>>67006138
this, it's why I love this movie
A little from column A, a little from column B...
Both
I knew teachers like that and students came out great because of it
He could have easily gotten the same results without being as extreme. Sure he could have been strict and yelled and berated his students, but throwing a chair at a kid? I can't imagine what he would have thought if he ended up crippling andrew with that chair
inb4 an angry kid turns up at school with a gun and masscres them all
>>67006215
this t b h
you can be tough on your students without being such a cunt
didnt realise he was the same dude that plays jj jameson desu
>>67006215
Well one of his students ended up killing themselves so I doubt that would even show up on his radar.
>>67006264
dumb ghettoposter
>>67006138
This.
People are all different. Take for example kids and fear. Some kids are reckless morons who need to be told not to stare at the sun or run into the road or hug strangers. Some kids are beta scaredy cat faggots who need to be told that they probably won't die if they go outside. Society moves at the pace of the slowest members, and the scaredy cat kids won't die if they stay inside but the reckless dumbasses will if their shit isn't reigned in, so kids are all told to watch themselves and be scared of everything and this makes most of the dumbasses able to not get killed before turning 10 but makes the beta scaredy faggots even more afraid.
This guy was like the opposite of that, without giving a single fuck if the students he was pounding turned into mush so long as a diamond came out eventually.
>>67006119
An insane asshole, who decided to sacrifice the well being and mental health of his students in the vain attempt of becoming someone who becomes one of the greats.
Also an amazing teacher as well, but only for those who can take it (which really wasn't a single person, not even Nieman, imo)
Pretty great movie, watched it again yesterday.
Anyone else think it had some Full Metal Jacket vibes?
>>67006380
Well, of course it did. Hard to disagree with that idea.
I had a teacher who was somewhat like this. He had foul language and had girls quit the class, I can't imagine he's still around with tumblr activism in the mainstream. I consider him to be my favorite teacher, even one of my favorite humans. He wasn't even an asshole, just a realist who would challenge you to be better. I looked him up on ratemyprofessor, and he's got good reviews but the common complaint is his foul language, and I love it.
>>67006119
so was whiplash russian or dragon?
If he was so great, he would have taught something else besides jazz.
Far more of an asshole then a good teacher.
Doing things out of fear is far worse than doing things out of encouragement and enjoyment.
>>67006951
Agreed. Still, a great character.
>>67006576
kek
The best teachers are huge assholes. The hippy "everything is ok" attitude is why there are so many losers in the arts these days.
>>67006119
I'm a multi-instrumentalist and think he was a fucking asshole and a terrible teacher with severe megalomania, but a really enjoyable character to watch. Sometimes in the worse days of your music career there's a voice in the back of your head that's a tiny bit like this guy. Movie wasn't really realistic as it didn't touch at all on the enjoyment of playing music, that was sadly just the backdrop for the whole "ambition story"-shtick to play out... but it was still a great movie.
>>67007297
Yes, but it doesn't need to be one extreme or the other. I think its shown that positive encouragement works better on average than negative encouragement.
Of course positive encouragement does not mean coddling, but it means not being a psychopath.
>>67007425
Yeah I agree, there needs to be encouragement, but there also needs to be pressure. The goal is to push the students beyond their expectations. Normally students wont practice for those extra 2 hours, you have to (encouragingly) push them beyond their expectations.
>>67007501
yea, it sucks to take in criticism but thats the only way to go about it.
>>67006119
Six of one, half a dozen of the other.
>>67007501
Pressure for what? Excel in something you don't want to excel in? Students who seek to excel in something don't need encouragement or pressure, ask any outstanding artist about their younger years and they'll tell you they couldn't keep themselves from practicing their instrument as much as humanly possible
>>67006215
He was possessed by the same sort of madness that inspires great artists--the same sort of madness he recognized (and eventually summoned to the surface) in Andrew. That's why he invited Andrew to the first session despite Andrew not originally being part of that group. Not all of the shit he did was inspired by his desire to better the pupil; it was the same mad frustration that Andrew had when pushing himself to the point of bleeding in his practice sessions. They were different sides to a similar genius.
>>67006119
This movie was such shit. Only murrica could take music and turn it into an exercise of the will. What is fucking yelling at someone gonna do BUT mess up their timing.
>>67006215
He's the villan on the movie, that doesn't mean he's evil, it just means that we justify his ways in our own terms. He seems evil, he's violent, but we agree more with that evil, just like the main character does.
he was just a cunt. he was basically a drill instructor for music, but took it to absurd extremes and was a vile vindictive bastard
my music teacher was kind of like him in high school, obviously nowhere near as extreme, but he'd flip out at students continuously. he was a drummer and would yell at the percussion section almost every day.
positive reinforcement while correcting mistakes is just a better way to teach, that's how a teacher gains respect, not terrorizing. fear can be useful obviously, but I think the students would eventually get used to his childish outbursts and just not care
He was an entertaining character, but a lot of his "training" behaviors didn't make sense if he actually cared about things being good, so they're only really explainable as his own power tripping behaviors
Like you can yell at someone for fucking up, but it's particularly silly to think doing that will make the performance better AT THAT MOMENT like they can just grit their teeth and become awesome. That's usually a sure way to fuck up even more. Especially for jazz when you want people to be in the groove, it's all about practicing to the point where you can play WITHOUT tension.
Some of the stuff made sense at tests of determination and not quitting, because you want someone that IS willing to practice 8 hours a day if necessary, but his methods were a little silly as shown in the movie.
>>67007726
Except he offered literally zero tutelage. He would only REEEEEE and yell "not quite my tempo" why dont you offer a little bit more fucking advice as to what your tempo is. The guy was fucking shit and you beta cucks are all sucking this guys cock because you believe the only path to greatness is through this maniac's method. No, it's through hardwork, practice, and natural ability. Something that Miles Teller could of achieved with a teacher that actually motivated and taught him properly...
Mostly just an asshole. It's a ridiculously ineffective and risky way of finding "greatness," and the underlying psychology has an appeal but isn't actually of much use.
>>67009424
Tempoman said that he wasn't looking for that. He wasn't looking for someone who did all the normal shit and reached a normal level wrt the effort they made. He wanted to find the one.
You can't be an amazing music teacher without being a fucking asshole. Source: 10 years in music school.
>>67006264
>>67006215
>>67006332
Oohh babys are huurttt mmoommyy give me tenndiesss poppypoppy
>>67007395
> "it didn't touch at all on the enjoyment of playing music..."
>his smile at the end of the drum solo in the final scenedid you even watch the movie?
>>67009640
So what you're saying is all of the greats have gotten there by having an asshole teacher endlessly berate them and offee zero advice on how to become better? I have no problem with his tough love, i do have a problem with his lack of actual teaching
>>67006215
LONDON
>>67009424
It's your fault if you suck.
https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/steve_vai_the_most_brutal_and_best_thing_joe_satriani_did_while_giving_me_guitar_lessons.html
I kind of wish they didn't delete the scene of him alone in his home crying, but I understand why they did.
NOT
>>67010101
Giving someone strict demands and being ruthless if they don't study/practice hard enough to meet them is very different from throwing tantrums at a whim. The movie was full of petty mind games that had nothing to do with working hard and getting good.
>>67010101
Cool. I assume Satriani also made Vai play until his hands bled or demoted him out of the blue. Or threw a chair at his head. Vai was actually given a task and failed so he got reprimanded. On Andrew's first day he plays for the first time in front of tempoman and all tempoman does is yell "Not quite my tempo". He was given no prior instruction as to what the tempo should be
>>67010028
That isn't what I was saying at all. I'm talking about the events of the film. Tempoman wasn't looking for another entry into the halls of ''all the greats'' he was looking for a singular player. That one guy in a billion who did respond to his method and become greater, in universe. It's not like his class was compulsory.
>>67010154
I liked that scene too. I wonder what happened to his family.
>>67006119
his antagonism created an environment where his students wanted to be better and he held the keys to a promising future so they all performed better for it, but his didactic skills were complete shit.
When it came to Teller, he completely went after him with the intention of ruining his career at the end of the movie
>>67010277
So then what the fuck was the point? He wanted one person to prove that his method could work? He fixated on finding the next Charlie Parker. It did not seem like he wanted to find the greatest of all time. Just one of the greats. Not a cut above the rest really
Does the movie ever explain why the guy was so reknowned/had such clout to begin with? I mean, a lot of times, I feel like it's high school coaches and instructors that are petty losers because they know they've never achieved anything great and their spots aren't competitive so they can get away with it. Does the movie explain what Fletcher's talent is such that he can get away with being how he is?
>>67009983
That smile was at getting recognition from teacher
>>67010525
It's in New York. It's all cut throat assholes doing whatever it takes to be on top there.
I don't remember him doing any teaching
>>67010394
Okay I'm not the anon you're responding to but like the dude said he just wanted someone who responded to what he did. That's all. Sure his method wouldn't make someone any greater than any other greats. That is literally not the point.
>>67006119
This is genuinely the best film of the 2010s so far.
Serious question: are there any female musicians in this movie?
>>67006300
what a shit reply and a truly half-assed analogy
>>67010959
I'm pretty positive his first class did
I don't think women would put up with Fletcher's bullshit. They don't have that innate need to prove their worth to each other like men do through physical endurance
>>67010525
I'm pretty sure the school was supposed to be like Julliard or something
>>67010394
Think of him like an obsessed mad scientist slaving away for his whole life trying to turn lead into gold, or a cracker bruteforcing a password for years on end. After a while a normal person would cut their losses and change their method, but he didn't. He kept bashing away and eventually it paid off. It might never work again after that, but for one glorious instance it did. Tempoman's life wasn't a waste after all, and neither was drummerboy's.
>>67010258
>On Andrew's first day he plays for the first time in front of tempoman and all tempoman does is yell "Not quite my tempo". He was given no prior instruction as to what the tempo should be
He wasn't trying to teach him any music. He's just showing him who's boss around here.
Dude may have been a great teacher but he was also a sadist who wanted muh great jazz player to be under his control. We already know Whiplash is a great drummer at the beginning, and that's why Whiplash chose him to be his bitch and at the end he's finally got him under control.
>>67006119
He was a terrible teacher. He motivated his students but he made a kid commit suicide. He made them terrified of failure and the students were constantly at each other's throats.
What does it matter if his students ended up as good musicians if they were mentally fucked up because of him?
The guy came across as an angry retard desu.
>>67006332
He wanted to find one of the best not be the best. He merely wanted to make a great band on the side.
>>67010525
I imagine he had clout as a professor or the 'house band' conductor. I imagine a mix of both. Why else would you be recruiting?
When Charlie Parker had a cymbal thrown at his head, it was because he made a mistake.
When Fletcher berates and attacks a student, it's to intimidate and a demoralize them regardless of their performance.
He's a hack who's only skill is to make musicians fearful of a washed up nobody who couldn't make it himself.
>>67011220
I suppose it's kind of like a football coach thing where you may not know exactly what they do, but you go by their record. If Tempoman kept winning competitions, that was proof enough. I just didn't know if the movie ever said anything about why he was so respected. I mean, for professors, usually the have to demonstrate their worth through publishing and things like that.
>>67010959
Fletcher immediately drops her because he believes she has first chair because "[she's] just pretty".
>>67010258
The count that JJJ gave Andrew was the indication of the tempo. He's playing in a Julliard analogue and thus the competitions are extremely important to that school. It would be the equivalent of needing all your equipment to work when you are giving a presentation of your technology to NASA, and you can't afford to have people who are not up to standard. Granted, this movie is an exaggeration, but you are taking a situation you don't understand and warping it to fit your narrative.
Negative stimuli for poor performance
Positive stimuli for good performance
Fletcher did negative for both. He was banking on the idea that a musical genius would waste their time trying to impress a has-been teacher.
>>67006215
>I can't imagine what he would have thought if he ended up crippling andrew with that chair
he would've thought andrew is a pussy
>>67011240
r-selected subspecies detected.
So what country are you from? I'm guessing Brazil.
Why did Whiplash smile at the end?
>>67011310
Well Andrew states its the best music university in the country. The guy who plucks all the best musicians for the band, who wins all the competitions, who can trace a bum note or tuning from an entire band, must be high up the food chain.
