just watched the film with my wife's son and he raised an interesting question
if fin was not a jedi, how on earth was he able to use a lightsaber and go toe to toe with a powerful sith lord like kylo ren?
Great to see people still post some creative OC
>>64672783
My wife's boyfriend explained that Kylo has likely never had an actual lightsabre duel before, that and how Kylo was wounded.
Finn had combat training and you don't have to be force sensitive to handle a lightsaber (Juan Solo used luke's to slice that snow camel's gut)
This has been debated to hell and back with no conclusive answer.
gtfo
>>64672817
>>64672814
also how on earth did rey learn in a few hours what took anakin and luke skywalker years to learn
why didnt kylo just freeze her like what they did to han solo in part 5?
if kylo knew that rey was gonna be more powerful than her, why didnt he just kill her when he had her in captivity. also why did kylo leave rey guarded by a weak ass storm trooper when he knew she was a jedi?
Truly wonderful the mind of a child is. Your step cuck is right.
>>64672783
Kylo Ren isn't a Sith Lord, which you'd know if you paid literally the slightest amount of attention. Snoke clearly states that Kylo isn't fully trained. That said, there are no Jedi and no Sith so even a poorly trained one would be something to fear. Finn was able to fight Kylo because Kylo is just as inexperienced as he is.
>>64672925
Trained his whole life as a storm trooper. For what I saw he didn't really hang with Ren
>>64672783
Han Solo used Luke's lightsaber in Empire Strikes Back and he wasn't a force user
Finn didn't "go toe to toe" with Kylo Ren. Kylo Ren finished him off and mortally wounded Finn in 30 seconds.
>Kylo Ren is a novice
>FN-2187 is a trained Stormtrooper
>anyone can wield a lightsaber
YOu piece of shit.
To light a saber, all you do is pressing a button.
>>64672817
fuck off with your bait bullshit
>>64672783
It's because Ren wasn't taking the fight seriously, because he's kind of a tryhard. The second finn actually tags him he absolutely destroys the dude in retaliation within seconds
>>64673588
>The second finn actually tags him he absolutely destroys the dude in retaliation within seconds
This. I rewatched the scene, it's painfully obvious that Kylo isn't even trying at first, and once he gets touched, literally within 1 second he owns Finn and tortures him slowly.
>>64672884
He used it to gut a dead animal, not fight for his life. Big difference
>>64673653
>literally within 1 second
>literally
I don't think you know what that word means.
>>64672948
>also how on earth did rey learn in a few hours what took anakin and luke skywalker years to learn
Presumably she was applying what she knew about fighting with a staff. Obviously they're not the same, but there is bound to be some carryover. Also, there is no indication from the movie that Kylo is very proficient with a lightsaber to begin with. We just know that he is strong with the force and had some training with Luke
>why didnt kylo just freeze her like what they did to han solo in part 5?
Equipment to freeze a person in carbonite is presumably not common.
>if kylo knew that rey was gonna be more powerful than her, why didnt he just kill her when he had her in captivity. also why did kylo leave rey guarded by a weak ass storm trooper when he knew she was a jedi?
Hubris
>>64672783
Kylo Ren was injured by Chewie
Fin had training in melee combat as a storm trooper
Congration u dun it!
You're just as stupid as your wifes son.
>>64674400
Kylo Ren still had the force. He can stop a laser beam in mid and freeze people but has a problem with Finn. Makes no sense. I don't care how hurt he is. He can still freeze people. Did he just forget to do that, even though he did it all the time?
Kylo Ren is not a sith lord
not even sith, basically just a dark jedi
he is not that powerful in lightsaber combat, rather in the force
he likely hasn't fought anybody else with a lightsaber in a fair fight, as he murdered the other jedi teaching with luke, even then he was young when he murdered them so it's not like he had that much training
kylo was fucking with him, along with the factor of being wounded, his emotions from killing his father, he was trying to validate himself to try and seem like he was in the right, you can tell from his expressions that he realizes he fucked up from killing his dad, and even in the novelization it confirms it as it says Kylo feels no surge of dark side energy or anything from killing his dad, no full heel turn. basically confirming he will have a redemption arc.
it just confirms how shit /tv/ is when they literally only look at the bare surface when it comes to films and characters, barely reading into their mannerisms, like Kylo's voice quivering everytime when he yells after he kills Han, how he was on the verge of tears, etc. I honestly feel like /tv/ watches movies with their eyes closed and only listen to dialogue which is why they're so shit at reading characters in anything
>>64674601
Exactly, this wasn't even complex, everything was laid out to make the final fight "fair" - Kylo at full physical and emotional strength would have won easily.
Instead it was well written to have an exciting, climactic finish.
I seriously feel like /tv/ is autistic with this, or just afraid of women or black people and have an inferiority complex.
He was shot in the fucking side with a bowcaster that killed tons of people. He just killed his dad. He was bleeding out, and was untrained and impatient, reckless (see anakin parallel) so fought anyway in anger, and fought to a stalemate even in that situation against a trained stormtrooper and someone who at minimum is a force sensitive individual with melee training.
>>64672783
Easy. Ren is not fully trained and certainly not with a lightsaber
>>64674536
Kylo could have froze Finn right after he launched Rey into that tree (kek that scene), slowly cut off each of Finn's limbs for being a traitor. Then froze Rey, rape her, knock her out with his hand and take her to Snoke as a sex slave for the First Order sex trafficking dept.
>>64673478
False equivalency, anon. He didn't duel Vader. He sliced open a Tauntaun.
I read a theory about her being kind of a "sponge" for the force; she learns quickly by observing or having it done to her. Like the mind trick, and the vision she had. She learned stuff after it happened to her or after she saw it. Otherwise this makes literally no sense. But then you need to think, how'd the first Jedi learn it? Maybe not so quickly I suppose. I dunno.
>>64673488
Kylo is a novice that displays more force competency than any Sith or Jedi to this point AND he killed all of Luke's youngling Jedi.
>novice
>swinging a lightweight wiffle bat is hard you guys, you totally need the force
Who started this meme? It must have been a yuropoor who's never played baseball
>>64675084
Kylo trained under Luke for some time. Unless Luke is a complete faggot of a teacher it beats whatever training with melee weapons Finn got
>>64673653
Why would he not be trying? Guy was just potentially mortally wounded. Why would he dick around?
Han Solo on Hoth in Empire and General Grievous on Utapau in Revenge both use lightsabers with no apparent Force sensitivity.
My daughters boyfriend Jamal told me he thought Finn was Landos son, so did have some force genes
>>64674601
> the novelization
>>64673588
You are a tryhard
A lightsaber is just a sword and a jedi/sith is nothing more than an force-priest. Swordplay and the Force are usually taught together, but they aren't connected in any special way that a Jedi with a blaster isnt.
To put it in perspective, Fin, as trained stormtrooper, is even more skilled than the guys sent to kill Osama Bin Laden, and any type of sword in his hands is going to be pretty dangerous.
Also, the lightsaber is acknowledged, in universe, to be an inferior weapon that jedi can get away with using. It started off as a cerimonial tool, and became a legendary sword of myth because of the Jedi that hold them.
Their true purpose is intimidation. A jedi can kill an entire room of badguys by dual wielding blasters, but they can avoid the fight altogether just by flashing a lightsaber. It's also easily seen on any type of battlefield day or night--so everyone else can piss themselves at the thought of Force-Wizards coming to kill them all.
Kylo got wounded by Finn because he wasn't using his god-mode Force cheats. So it was just a swordfight.
>>64673966
>why didnt kylo just freeze her like what they did to han solo in part 5?
>Equipment to freeze a person in carbonite is presumably not common.
You bet it isn't. The whole process was an experiment in ESB. Lando even tells Vader that the equipment is not suited for that use. It's why they use Han as a guinea pig anyways.
>>64675483
But Leia told Han she wished Luke trained Kylo so nah. Luke trained Snoke. Snoke betrayed Luke and assembled the Knights of Ren with Kylo as his apprentice.
>>64672783
How to use a lightsaber:
1. Press the button on the hilt to activate it.
>>64676544
>Luke trained Snoke
sauce?
>>64676014
>A lightsaber is just a sword and a jedi/sith is nothing more than an force-priest. Swordplay and the Force are usually taught together, but they aren't connected in any special way that a Jedi with a blaster isnt.
Except that because in the hands of an actually trained jedi/sith the lightsaber is better in every way because they can cover it's weaknesses and accentuate its strengths with the force. Also a trained force user with a saber would ruin on with a blaster.
As for the actual fight Ren had been hit with a bowcaster which had been show in in the film to one shot most people and send them flying (there is also tonnes of shit in the books and shit about muh folded 100000 times wookie steel and how amazing bowcasters are). He was also not fully trained and presumably never even had a duel before.
>>64675395
the question was how could he use a lightsaber without being force sensitive NOT how good he was with it in combat. Anyone can pick up a lightsaber and swing away to their hearts content.
This whole movie is fucking retarded.
How do lightsabers even work? How can you created a light-beam that just stops by itself in mid air?
I know it's science fiction but come on...
I'm surprised they didn't have Han solo and chewie with light sabers. Fucking hack JJ is
>>64677057
Magnetic field and hot plasma.
>>64676832
I agree with you except for
>Also a trained force user with a saber would ruin one with a blaster.
There is no way that two equal jedi--one with a sword, and one with a gun--would end any differently then you with a sword trying to fight me with a gun.
A jedi can run up on a normal guy and blow him the fuck out with slick moves, but he couldn't do that another jedi who also had all the advantages of a ranged weapon. Lightsabers have some defensive uses, but it's not enough to let the strongest jedi generals survive Order 66, so there's a clear upper limit to being able to block blasters with a sword.
The gun-toting jedi would have the exact same mobility as the sword ninja jedi so it just becomes a battle of endurance that swords usually lose.
>>64677057
http://www.space.com/31361-building-a-real-lightsaber.html
>>64675350
The people freezing stuff explained here...
1. Chewbacca got Kylo good. Kylo used most of his strength to shoot Rey into a tree.
2. Kylo probably thought killing Fin was gonna be easy so he didn't freeze Fin. Actually Fin was getting served hard.
3. Kylo's injury allowed Rey to force hand Luke's saber to herself away from Kylo.
4. Kylo caught Rey off guard with the tree toss. He knew he couldn't freeze her because she would unfreeze herself easily. The only thing he could do was saber duel her.
>>64676832
Ren killed all of the Jedi at Luke's academy. Definitely an inexperienced novice.
>>64672783
>go toe to toe with kylo
he didn't though. even though kylo was badly injured he shredded finn easily.
>>64672925
>i refuse to admit i am wrong therefore there was never any conclusion
>>64672783
A lightsaber is just a laser sword. Anyone can use one.
>>64673311
>Kylo is just as inexperienced as he is.
You're fucking retarded. Kylo uses a lightsaber all the time, Finn hadn't even touched one before. Kylo was also trained by a master sith, Finn had 0 fucking training.
>>64672783
>wife's son
obvious copy pasta/bait
>>64677615
(spoiler)that was rey though(/spoiler)
>>64677723
Yeah, nobody here has a wife.
>>64677653
Do you apologist even try? That's not how the scene played out at all. Just admit JJ put zero thought into the final duel(s) and move on. No one is saying you can't enjoy it, but the defense being put forth is Len Kachinsky tier.
>>64677743
you must be new
>wife's son
obviously some /pol/ cuck related bait.
>>64673684
Why? A lightsaber is nothing more than a lazer sword, a weapon. It was fucking faggot eu Shit that added these rules abd stipulations to using the fucking things.
Being a jedi should be primarily about the ability to use the force.
>>64677615
Ren was just a school shooter at Luke's monk academy. That's just fish in a barrel.
Ren's lightsaber is essentially a taped together piece of trash--which shows just how much combat those students were learning at Luke's school. Any armed intruder could have killed everyone there, provided they didn't run into Luke himself.
>>64677725
So the film lied. Cool.
>force pushes a superior force user meters in the air effortlessly
>get cut by a nigmo for no apparent reason
>try to take on an apprentice for no reason, instead of simply murdering an obvious threat
Kylo was a decent character up until the final fight. I'll concede the "interrogation" scene, but the final fight is just go retarded to forgive.
>>64677775
It was, and your missed quints should help you understand where you went so wrong
>>64672783
>and go toe to toe with a powerful sith lord like kylo ren?
Because:
>Kylo was hurt with the Wookie bowcaster, a weapon they show you like 3 times in the movie blowing up troopers. Kylo took the shot like a boss withouth moving a feet but he was badly damaged.
>Kylo was mentally unstable. He just killed his father thinking that would give him a boost in the dark side and making the opposing effect.
>Finn is a Trained Stormtrooper. He can fight with melee weapons and Lightsaber is a melee weapon.
You just have to open your eyes while watching a movie. Even my kids understood that Kylo was very powerfull but he was badly hurt during the lightsaber duels.
>>64674536
You have to be focused to use the force at that level and focused was the only thing Kylo wasn't after killing his own father 3 minutes ago.
>>64678132
But he still out flanks the protagonists and force catapult's Rey into a tree. His actions are inconsistent given the information provided by the film. It wants you to believe he is compromised, and yet he still shows a mastery of the force.
>>64673653
This anon is right.
>>64678186
He force launches Rey into a tree and obviously used force run to pull ahead of them. Can't have it both ways.
>>64677213
The difference would be my sword doesn't deflect the bullets back at you and I don't have super powers.
I think what you are missing here is that given to a jedi a lightsaber is a total check to a blaster; You can't shoot them because they will deflect it (potentially back at you), if they get in close you get rekt, sabers can deflect or absorb certain force powers blasters can't and in a pure battle of attrition you'll run out of bolts before a saber runs out of charge.
Additionally during the time periods of the movies jedi were much better trained at fighting against blasters then sabers (for obvious reasons) so the jedi choosing the blaster is innately disadvantaging himself out of the gate
While yes you cant perfect deflect every bolt from multiple angles easily (unless you're obi-wan) one on one no blaster is getting through a jedi.
Also order 66 was designed to negate the weakness of blasters by; Using chips to hide the clones intentions so the jedi couldn't sense them, overwhelming numbers and use of high powered ordinance. Very little of which would be applicable to a one on one jedi on jedi smackdown.
>>64678132
>a weapon they show you like 3 times in the movie blowing up troopers.
I'm tired of fucktards using this argument. It clearly fires different types of shots and that one was just like a normal blaster.
>>64678271
Force push is literally the easyest force trick a force sentient person can do. It's not at the same level of Force fucking Stasys a blaster bolt in mid-air. For god's sake not even Vader could do that.
>>64678279
Finn is still going toe-to-toe with him and this is only a couple days after cleaning toilets on the Starkiller Base.
>>64678358
Funny how he couldn't do that 5 minutes later then.
>>64678279
You have the rey ren fight?
>>64677775
I am in no wan an apologist TFA was just a rewrite of ANH but I feel like they went to great lengths to explain how the duel didn't result in Kylo curb stomping them.
Aside from what's been said before (he was shot by a bowcaster, emotional, not a sith etcetera) he was clearly playing with Finn (as evidenced by the vent to the should trolling) and within like 4 strokes of Finn grazing him Finn gets demolished.
>>64678355
>It clearly fires different types of shots
>Red shot
>Red shot
>Red shot
Muh diferent shots.
>>64678406
What part of
>Hit by the most powerfull weapon of the movie
>Bleeding
>Mentally broken
Did you not get?
He was toying with Finn and trying to make Rey fall into the dark side.
>>64678519
Good thing he nearly kills Rey right off the bat and there's nothing to establish that he's toying with Finn. Why would he? He's supposedly nearly incapacitated by his blaster wound.
>>64678401
>Still going toe-to-toe
>Duel begins
>Kylo doing flourishes with the lightsaber
>Kylo makes Finn eat the snow
>Turns back instead of finishing him
>Keeps toying with him doing more lightsaber flourishes
>Keeps toying with him forcing a saber clash and burning him with the crossguard
>Gets hit once
>Literally the next move disarms Finn
It's like we are not watching the same webm.
>>64678519
>all red things are the same
The other shots exploded. That one (and a few other bowcaster shots in the movie) did not explode. It looked exactly like a generic blaster shot.
All those excuses also applied previously.
>>64678594
The fight takes place at normal human speed, he spends half of it fighting one handed, after he knocks Finn down he walks away instead of kill striking him, he trolls fin by saber locking him and intentionally minorly damaging him with the vent thing and the second fin touches him he disarms him and ruins him.
It's the literal definition of playing with your food.
the fact this thread wasn't deleted immediately shows how shit this board has become
>Finn is some random fuck with no training with weapons for men (just guns, but those are girly)
>kylo ren is the most powerful force user to ever exist (as stated by JJ)
>>64678638
No, we are, but you're making excuses for Kylo's actions which are not supported by anything in the film. There's no evidence he's toying with Finn. There's no evidence that he is emotionally compromised. There's no reason he shouldn't be force-choking Finn to death right on the spot. It's a dumb, no good, very bad duel and the defense for it wreaks of desperation.
>>64678666
What you call "excuses" are included in the original movie Script that was leaked the last week.
Even fucking NORMIES can figure this shit out compared to the autistic prequel lovers on /tv/
>>64677692
You really think Supreme Leader monsterface bothered training this guy in lightsaber combat? Probably only got the basics before going dark.
>>64672817
Your wife's boyfriend?
Please explain.
>>64678766
>What you call "excuses" are included in the original movie Script that was leaked the last week.
And if the duel scene wasn't handled like shit or they handed out a copy of the script with the movie that would matter.
>>64678769
I dunno. Ask chewie. The fact remains his shot did not explode while all the shots han was jacking off to did.
>>64672783
>Stormtroopers have at least basic combat training with melee weapons. See: TR-8R
>Kylo has likely never been in a lightsaber duel, given the lack of jedi and such in this time period
>Kylo was heavily wounded, and probably psychologically shaken after going through with the choice that has been fucking with his mind for who knows how long
>In a swordfight, both combatants have a chance of getting in a lucky hit. Ignore bullshit Hollywood/PT ballet-duel choreography. Historically, even the victor would often be grievously wounded after the fight
>You don't need to be a jedi to press a button and swing a lightsaber around
>Kylo Ren is not a sith lord
>>64672884
>snow camel
lel
>>64678887
The shoots explode when they hit the ground or a wall. Kylo took the shoot like a fucking boss with his own body.
My wife's son really liked this movie, but he didn't like that Finn lost. I think it's inappropriate for JJ to show strong black males losing against white males. It is not only racist but would never happen in real life.
>>64678761
You are either trolling or a retard, everything in the fight suggests he was toying with Finn
see >>64678717 and >>64678638
Hell you own comment supports this, why didn't he just immediately force choke Finn? Because he was a traitor with no force sensitivity using grandpa's magic jedi sword.
He wanted to do him slowly because he perceived all of those things a personal insults.
The fact a hack Abrams who lazily plagiarized everything else took actual time to set up and explain the reasons why that scene took place is proof enough it's not a plot-hole.
>>64672783
is there anywhere were i can watch the movie online, i cant download torrents since im in germany atm and i dont own any vpn
>>64672817
>My wife's boyfriend
This fuckinc cuck
>>64678761
You've got some serious blinders on dude
>2016
>having long drawn out arguments about plot points in a sci-fi action movie
lmfao tbqh
>>64679010
There's really nothing wrong with an open marriage. She gets the sexual pleasure she needs and I get to take care of a family.
Watches the movie today and i actually really liked it. Characters were great story was good enough and both action and dialogue was well done.
Only problem i personally have is that they don't introduce the new faction as much as they should have
I would have liked more of an explaination to their new deathstar and how exactly they rose to power (the nazi speech did a good job at explaining their politics but i would have liked more)
Also an explaination as to why we still need rebels when there's a republic now would have been nice (or maybe i just misunderstood that part)
>>64678971
>the shots distinguish what they hit and only do maximum damage if it wasn't an enemy
next you'll be telling me he felt himself being shot and made a little force bubble in his side to contain the explosion
>>64673311
a little bit of experience beats just picked up a lightsaber for the first time, if star wars weren't fantasy genre bullshit he would have cut his own head off and the credits would have rolled.
>>64679051
That is the literal reason half the boards on 4chan exist you mongoloid.
>>64679064
*i watched
>>64678908
>Stormtroopers have at least basic combat training with melee weapons. See: TR-8R
Finn has never been in combat before
>Kylo has likely never been in a lightsaber duel, given the lack of jedi and such in this time period
So let's ignore his unprecedented mastery of the force, time being trained by Luke, and his slaughtering of his Jedi Academy classmates all for the convenience of the plot.
>Kylo was heavily wounded, and probably psychologically shaken after going through with the choice that has been fucking with his mind for who knows how long
Kylo despite being "heavily" wounded cuts off Rey and Finn's escape route and force launches Rey into a tree. This is complete bs.
>In a swordfight, both combatants have a chance of getting in a lucky hit. Ignore bullshit Hollywood/PT ballet-duel choreography. Historically, even the victor would often be grievously wounded after the fight
One is an experience Dark Jedi/Sith and the other is a glorified space janitor. This should be no contest.
>You don't need to be a jedi to press a button and swing a lightsaber around
No, but keeping up with a trained swordsmen aint like dusting crops boy.
>Kylo Ren is not a sith lord
And yet shows force abilities that are beyond any established Sith Lord.
You fucking people, I swear.
>>64678987
WHY WOULD HE TOY WITH HIM IF HE IS POTENTIALLY MORTALLY WOUNDED?
>>64679115
>Finn has never been in combat before
But still had the Stormtrooper combat training.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspension_of_disbelief
>>64679149
Because he is literally an edgelord wannabe. He is the fucking grand-son of fucking Darth Vader fighting versus a fucking stormtrooper. A STORMTROOPER dude.
>>64677775
thats exactly how it went down you dumb fucking idiot. Finn got a total 3 attacking strikes Kylo's way before being forced to the defensive where he got one lucky slice on Kylo before Kylo stopped toying with him and wrecked his shit. The whole fight lasted maybe shy of two minutes if that. Finn got fucking rekt.
Unless you shills wanted the fight to be literally 10 seconds long which would be stupid as shit.
>>64679149
Is this your first experience with star wars? Darkside users revel in the power they have over others and the suffering they can cause, it empowers them but when not properly tempered it leads to hubris allowing potentially lesser foes to best them (ex Maul and Ren).
>>64679233
There's an easy way to solve this. Finn is the one that gets taken out early. That simple. Rey is forced to bumble her way through the duel, until she has that sudden epiphany and then it's game-over for Ren.
>>64679292
>which would make actual sense
>>64679062
here we go again
>>64679292
Think for just one second. Why does Kylo even engage him in lightsaber combat. Toying with him makes no sense given his emotional and physical state. This fight is poorly conceived and all of you should be ashamed for defending it.
>>64679188
Fake universes, like Middle Earth or Marvel Cinematic Universe, have rules to them that are established and consistent throughout the films. Star Wars also has rules, and now it doesn't make sense.
JJ Abrams does this to every movie. He doesn't care about rules or consistency in his films, all he wants to do is make every scene as emotional and cool as possible. If that means making a lightsaber duel as intense as possible by making characters powers and skills fluctuate throughout the fight, or have an intense spaceship chase scene by having Rey magically know how to fly the Millennium Falcon with no co-pilot, then that's what he thinks must be done.
>>64679338
Speculation your honor. Not found in the evidence.
>>64679357
Bingo.
>>64679010
>Hello Reddit!
>>64679420
Why is this so difficult for people to admit?
>>64679420
>Rey magically know how to fly the Millennium Falcon with no co-pilot, then that's what he thinks must be done.
Literally every time Rey managed to do some surprising thing she said she didn't know how she did it. It's very clear Rey was mind wiped after Kylo Ren assaulted Luke's academy.
>>64679460
I just cited too examples from the films.
>>64679780
No, you must be mistaken. Did you see Kylo's crappy saber? He's unrefined, and inexperienced. Attack the Jedi Academy and committing mass genocide just doesn't sound like him at all. Definitely had no influence on Luke going into exile either. Guys not a threat.
>>64672817
He was trained by Luke fucking Skywalker for his entire life
Of course he had lightsaber duel training
>>64679115
>Finn has never been in combat before
Combat TRAINING you fucking retard.
>So let's ignore his unprecedented mastery of the force, time being trained by Luke, and his slaughtering of his Jedi Academy classmates all for the convenience of the plot.
Again, likely his first actual lightsaber duel. It's unlikely Luke taught them much of anything about lightsaber combat either. Why would he? What would be the demand for lightsaber skills at that time? Luke never even underwent any actual lightsaber combat training himself. We don't even yet know the circumstances under which Ren killed his fellow pupils.
>cuts off Rey and Finn's escape route
Wow, he managed to either find a shortcut/transport on a familiar space station. What a feat.
>force launches Rey into a tree.
He executes one force push, while staggering and limping, and repeatedly demonstrates throughout the confrontation that he is injured and bleeding out.
>One is an experience Dark Jedi/Sith
A wounded, inexperienced in swordplay Dark Jedi/Sith.
> and the other is a glorified space janitor
Finn is a trained soldier who was assigned janitorial duties on Starkiller Base. Somebody has to do it. Why hire thousands of janitors when you have millions of soldiers who could do it. This happens IRL too.
>No, but keeping up with a trained swordsmen aint like dusting crops boy.
A trained soldier keeping up with a swordsman who was shot in the gut with an exploding laser crossbow on the other hand?
>And yet shows force abilities that are beyond any established Sith Lord.
Being a powerful dark side user doesn't make him a Sith Lord. The sith were an ancient order and a line of succession. The whole concept is PT/EU garbage anyway.
>>64679115
>And yet shows force abilities that are beyond any established Sith Lord.
The fuck are you talking about? Sure, he's very powerful in the Force, but it's a central aspect of his character that he fears he will never be as strong as Vader, and there's no way he's anywhere close to Emperor Palpatine yet.
>>64679916
>Combat TRAINING you fucking retard.
Combat training means nothing without experience.
>Again, likely his first actual lightsaber duel. It's unlikely Luke taught them much of anything about lightsaber combat either. Why would he? What would be the demand for lightsaber skills at that time? Luke never even underwent any actual lightsaber combat training himself. We don't even yet know the circumstances under which Ren killed his fellow pupils.
We don't know the specifics, but assuming the guy isn't skilled with a saber is quite the leap of faith given everything we know so far.
>Wow, he managed to either find a shortcut/transport on a familiar space station. What a feat.
Actually it is given the seriousness of his injury and the fact that he was half a football field away from them to start.
>He executes one force push, while staggering and limping, and repeatedly demonstrates throughout the confrontation that he is injured and bleeding out.
Which is simply a case of JJ wanting the best of both worlds. There's no internal consistency here.
>Finn is a trained soldier who was assigned janitorial duties on Starkiller Base. Somebody has to do it. Why hire thousands of janitors when you have millions of soldiers who could do it. This happens IRL too.
Why would you have a human do sanitation work when you have fucking robots. It's played as a joke and it only serves to make the character less credible later on.
>A trained soldier keeping up with a swordsman who was shot in the gut with an exploding laser crossbow on the other hand?
Who still shows the capacity to wield the force. He should have dispatched Finn immediately.
>Being a powerful dark side user doesn't make him a Sith Lord. The sith were an ancient order and a line of succession. The whole concept is PT/EU garbage anyway.
Nevermind the semantics. Resolve the apparent contradiction that Kylo is raw and inexperienced and yet shows abilities beyond any established force user to this point.
>>64680113
Did you see Vader induce a brain aneurysm? Did he stop a laser bolt mid-air? Did he freeze combatants dead in their tracks? Even Vader had to use a probe droid to extract information, and yet Kylo the petulant edge-lord Vader wannabe can do it with his mind alone.
>>64678821
It's a cuck meme
>>64679888
That's if Luke chose to teach combat at all. Remember, Skywalker is one guy rushing to teach the force to the next generation before he dies. He probably isn't going to waste time teaching how to swing a sword, when there's a whole bunch of real Force knowledge to teach.
These kids, if they really want to waste their time learning to be war gods like the old jedi, can just go learn combat from the countless warrior races in the galaxy once they master the basics of the force.
>>64680368
>Implying Vader didn't mind rape Leia with the help of a probe droid
>Implying Leia didn't resist him because Force
lmao nerd
>"it's just a light saber, anyone can use it! XD"
>this somehow means everyone is as skilled in sword fighting
Just admit it
If you got one of those bamboo swords in Kendo for the first time, and fight against one with many years of training with such swords, you'd be guaranteed to get fucked up big time way quicker than Finn got.
>>64680633
Now imagine that you've gone through one of the most rigorous training programs in the galaxy, including melee combat, from birth.
You pick up a sword. It's a little lighter than you're used to, but it's still a sword.
>>64680796
You think an average muhreen could take on the most skilled samurai in history in sword fighting?
>>64680796
>It's a little lighter than you're used to
You weren't even trained in swordfighting. You were trained to use some retarded space club.
>>64680633
Finn wasn't skilled in sword fighting, he was swinging it around like a club pretty much.
It's obvious that Kylo was fucking with him/taking out his anger. The first thing he does is shout TRAITOR at him.
He probably felt a little fired up after killing his dad, and this is the first time in a while he has probably come face to face with anyone wielding a lightsaber.
The moment Finn gets lucky and hits him, he fucks his shit up like it was nothing.
>>64681177
He blocks plenty of hits and even manage to strike Kylo in the shoulder.
>>64680796
And yet with all that conditioning you freak out during your first mission.
Crap film is crap.
>>64681177
>fired up
>doesn't immediately kill Finn with the force
Sure thing anon.
>>64681177
He's the fucking most powerful Shit Lord apprentince in the galaxy at that time, even stated by Jar Jar Abrams
Had the movie gone by logic, he'd had his sword knocked the fuck out of his hand immediately as he is just an average janitor solider, and gotten his spine ripped up right after that.
In no way does it make sense for a someone like Kylo to have his strikes blocked and even get a strike on his shoulder.
>>64681300
Forget it, anon. It's Reddittown
>>64681439
Oh fuck, I mean Sith Lord, hahaha XDDD
This must have been subconscious
>>64681472
Don't fucking meme Chinatown and reddit in the same sentence you newfag
>>64680260
>training isn't experience
Yes it is, training prepares you for the real thing
>half a football field
That's not long anon, ever been on one?
>no internal consistency
one force push anon, one force push. Not fucking acrobatics
>should have dispatched Finn immediately
Possibly, maybe he was playing with him, he ended up disarming him in the end anyways though
>abilities beyond any force user
Just because we haven't seen things like stopping a blaster shot in mid air in previous movies, doesn't mean it's advanced
>>64679046
Don't bother. The small minded aren't worth it.
>>64672783
Because First Order stormtroopers get melee training as shown by TR 8R.
>>64680368
Did you not see Vader choke out a guy on another ship without so much as making a hand gesture? Granted, we don't see Vader use the Force a great deal for combative purposes in the movies except for throwing machinery at Luke.
Maybe Vader was more conservative in his use of the Force and finds it distasteful to use it unnecessarily/excessively. Whatever the reasoning, it is part of the narrative that Vader was leagues ahead of Ren, at least for now.
>>64681103
If you were trained in riot control.
>>64672783
Also, how the fuck can people forget that Kylo got shot with a fucking bowcaster? The movie straight up demonstrates the power of that gun multiple times. Han kills two guys with one shot with it, Chewie sends a guy flying into a wall with one shot, etc. Kylo took a shot and still managed to fuck up finn and, for a while, rey.
>>64683461
was a reply to someone else but whatever
>>64672783
The book explains how he was toying with Finn as he never gets to fight anyone with the Light Saber, he underestimated the ferocity of Finn's attack and was injured.
After Finn wounded him, he just ended the fight more or less immediately.
>>64683195
>Just because we haven't seen things like stopping a blaster shot in mid air in previous movies, doesn't mean it's advanced
Pretty much this. As fucking cool as it was, all he really needed to do was react in time, which is kind of a thing among Force users. How about when Vader blocked/absorbed repeated shots from Han by simply holding up his hand?
>>64683461
Makes me wonder why people still use blasters if Bowcasters are so powerful.
>>64672783
he's been training to be a warrior his entire life so it isnt that far fetched since you don't need the force to use a saber
my sister who is married to a black man loved this movie
>>64678821
>>64679010
It's a meme you dip.
>>64683461
force healing I guess
>>64683573
wookies don't like sharing them
>>64683623
My wife who was blacked last night by a bull loved this movie
>>64672783
Oops, looks like your wife's son (clever reference to you being a cuck btw, gave away that your post was bait) is retarded and missed the part where Kylo was mortally wounded and bleeding out.
>>64672783
he was wounded so...
>>64683648
>wookies don't like sharing them
>impyling the Empire/First Order would care
They'd just have to go to Kashyyk steal a bowcaster and reverse engineer it.
>>64672948
Soldier with training, swinging a weapon with a basic concept.
It took Luke three films to learn how to make bashing motions at things.
Are we really discussing this?
>>64683654
then it's objectively a good movie, open minded and tolerant people clearly loved it.
>>64683731
finn was taken at a young age and has been training to fight for his entire life and to be fair kylo was injured
>>64672948
>also how on earth did rey learn in a few hours what took anakin and luke skywalker years to learn
She didn't learn how to do it, she did it on impulse. The Force has ALWAYS been a sentient, guiding Force that comes and helps you when you need it, you just need training to use it at will.
It'll make more sense once you've seen the original trilogy, I recommend it.
>>64678793
Remember how getting a robot hand cut off meant Vader got BTFO by Luke?
Based confirmed for absolute bitch.
>>64672783
My wife's son's girlfriend's sister's brother in law's husband's aunt's bull was curious as well
>>64683841
the force doesn't do anything on its own did you watch the movies?
>I'll take one ticket for Star WArs
>get ticket
>go to concession
>get a tub of popcorn sprinkled with the theaters complimentary buck semen
>tell jamal thank you and that his drippings are a little saltier than usual today, but still delicious nonetheless
>get to my auditorium
>find my seat
>the theater is filled with big black bucks and white girls
>my mouth starts to water
>im the only white male here
>all the white males must've been at the 7pm thursday showing
>movie starts
>Louie CK & Chris Pratt come on screen
>they both kneel down & yell BIG
>all the big black bucks in my theater start yelling OOGA BOOGA
>all the white girls are wet, with their breast already exposed
>BIG BIG BIG BIG
>Louie CK & Chris Pratt's chant start to grow louder
>I retreat to the corner, dick already in my hand, fapping furiously
>the bucks impregnate all the white girls in the theater
>I start clapping
>pat Tyrone on the back & squeeze his cock to squirt out the last of his cum droppings on my popcorn
>>64680633
>If you got one of those bamboo swords in Kendo for the first time, and fight against one with many years of training with such swords, you'd be guaranteed to get fucked up big time way quicker than Finn got.
Now imagine this dude with years of training with such swords had a fucking arrow on his kidney.
>>64678887
>>64679071
Jesus christ, are you seriously this autistic and cornered that you're beginning to question the lethality of the shot to defend your anti-black/anti-woman sentiment that the Force only works for trained white males?
>>64683948
finn isnt even force sensitive rey on the other hand is a mary sue
>>64683896
>the force doesn't do anything on its own
>Except when the force helps a jedi to deflect blasters with the lightsaber automatically
>Except when the force grants a force sentient better reflexes than normal people
>>64684006
people use the force to do crazy shit the force isnt sentient
>>64683573
It's heavy as fuck and have a lot of recoil.
>>64672783
KYLO GOT SHOT BY A FUCKING REALLY POWERFUL GUN AND JUST KILLED HIS DAD
HE OBVIOUSLY WASN'T AT TOP FORM AND STILL FUCKED FINN UP (it wasn't "toe to toe", fuck off kylo wrecked him)
>>64684036
>the force isnt sentient
That's what you believe, child.
>>64684036
>I prefer the interpretation that midichlorians dictate if you can use the Force, rather than the interpretation that the Force is a living energy field that guides our actions.
HOOOOOOLY SHIT you're desperate.
>>64684036
Did you even watch a new hope you stupid faggot.
>>64684103
the force was never sentient in either trilogy you meme spouting retard and like it or not the prequels are still cannon
>>64683948
No you illiterate faggot. I was pointing out how retarded you are for pretending the fact that it was a bowcaster that shot him is relevant when the shot wasn't different than a normal blaster.
It's the way he shoves her 30 feet in the air to knock her out after getting shot that makes your excuses meaningless.
If you want a plot hole study the Star Killer weapon and how many times it has been used, but they're able to locate it because it's a static planet.
>>64684091
Based /v/eddit to the rescue
>>64684152
have you ever watched it because I want you to tell me something when did the force ever do anything by itself without anyone using it?
>>64683573
Basically a heavy machine gun. Noone wants to carry them, and the prequels showed them being mounted weapons. It's a feat that chewie uses one regularly, but he's a giant after all.
so, /tv/, how did you find it going to the movie with your mom?
>>64684205
>Luke deflecting the blasters of a probe withouth training
>Anaking winning the race in Ep1 and destroying the Droid Core-Ship by himself
>Qui Gon finding Anakin
>The hundreds of times some jedi master says "The force brought us here", "Let the force guide us"
>The force showing Luke a vision of Vader in Dagobah
>The force showing Luke a vision of his friends dying on Bespin.
>The force showing Anakin visions of Padme dying.
etc etc
>>64684334
>>64684334
My mom and her boyfriend really liked the Finn character and they hope he gets together with Rey.
>>64676701
Just checked the lines, it checks out. When Leia talks to Han at the resistance base, She says she wanted kylo to train with Luke, that she should have never let him go. That snoke seduced him to the dark side. That anon had a good ear on that convo.
>>64684205
>when did the force ever do anything by itself without anyone using it?
>>64684347
>First 'counterexample'
>Luke used the force to deflect blasters
Are you retarded?
>without training
He was literally being trained
>>64684347
>Luke deflecting the blasters of a probe withouth training
that was training.
>>64684389
Snoke was a Pederast.
Obviously Rey could pick up the light saber easily as she is the love child of Luke and Leia.
>>64684422
The force raped her, then she had little force rape babies later on that helped her.
Why can't you sexists understand that lightsabers are sentient now and anakin's lightsaber intelligently chose rey over ren because of his toxic masculinity?
>>64684404
its almost like obi wan was teaching him how to use the force
>>64684347
>Anaking winning the race in Ep1 and destroying the Droid Core-Ship by himself
>Qui Gon finding Anakin
>The hundreds of times some jedi master says "The force brought us here", "Let the force guide us"
>The force showing Luke a vision of Vader in Dagobah
>The force showing Luke a vision of his friends dying on Bespin.
>The force showing Anakin visions of Padme dying.
so people were using the force and not the other way around all that means is that its a tool without any will of its own
>>64684371
I really liked Finn too, but I think all of the mains shouldn't mingle romantically at all.
>>64684407
>>64684404
After 5 minutes talking with Ben he puts on the helmet and deflects 3 blaster shots. Blaster deflecting is the best example of "the force moving the Jedi body for its protection".
>>64684537
The virility of the African male shouldn't be contained
>>64684537
>he doesn't want a Finn/Poe kissing scene in the next episode
Anon, why are you still homophobic in 2016 ?
>>64684549
the force isnt moving them its the user controlling the force and that's what kids learn when they start training
>>64684549
It's an example of 'Jedi using the force to detect the near future'.
>>64684549
There was a cut between scenes. I, at 4 years of age, understood that they had been in flight for some time. Ben was literally mid lesson.
BECAUSE KYLO REN WAS BLEEDING FROM THE STOMACH
ARGUMENT OVER
I'm just glad that Black males are getting positive representation for once in American media.
>>64684796
*from his vagina
>>64684830
For once? We're represented in film positively for decades. I think your ignorance is fueling your eagerness to be an apologist.
>>64672783
>HOW DID A GUY MANAGE TO SWING A SWORD LIKE OBJECT AROUND?
Because any fucking retarded moron would be able to? Even Luke did that with no training. Yoda sure as hell never trained him, so all of Luke's lightsaber prowess was self-taught.
You fucking morons need to actually watch the movies.
>>64684830
Diversity is a strength.
White males are a weakness.
>>64685009
>Yoda sure as hell never trained him
that's exactly what happened
>>64685083
Yoda trained him in the force.
Not lightsaber combat.
Watch. The. Fucking. Movie.
>>64685115
he did both he was on that planet for weeks the movie never covered every lesson and respond like an adult next time
>>64685191
>respond like an adult
Adults can use swear words, you dip.
Also don't even try that bullshit. Yoda was never seen using a lightsaber in episode 5, and that was only a notion in the prequels. He was NEVER shown training Luke with a lightsaber, so don't say "Oh it could have happened." It didn't.
You're wrong.
>>64684367
how were luke and paul anything alike?
>>64685279
>Adults can use swear words, you dip.
adults can also talk without getting angry over the smallest thing
>Also don't even try that bullshit. Yoda was never seen using a lightsaber in episode 5, and that was only a notion in the prequels. He was NEVER shown training Luke with a lightsaber, so don't say "Oh it could have happened." It didn't.
there was also that part in the cave where luke fights a vision of vader so that could have been used to teach him
>>64685368
>Yoda would use a highly dangerous cave that gives anyone who enters it visions of the future, just to train Luke to swing a stick around
Right.
>>64685399
>>Yoda would use a highly dangerous cave that gives anyone who enters it visions of the future
it didn't show the future
>just to train Luke to swing a stick around
probably it seems like the most efficient way of doing things
also why is this argument so special to you its just a movie can you talk about it without getting so emotional
>>64675452
Force =\= lightsaber skill
>>64673927
it is used correctly in this case though.
After Finn hits Kylo in the shoulder, Kylo disarms and incapacitates him with the next attack.
>>64677692
>If I use an axe to chop wood all the time, I'll be an expert at axe combat!
Stop watching The Karate Kid, anon.
>>64685768
kylo had a teacher
>>64678279
Ren doesn't even LOOK like he's trying, and Finn clearly got a lucky shot from the momentum. Who gives a fuck.
>>64672783
>go toe to toe
>Klyo is wounded as hell
>Hits his wound to remember the audience he's hurt
>He's still toying with him
>Turns his back when the nigga's in the ground instead of killing him just to toy with the traitor a bit more
>keeps hitting wound
>Gets barely touched by the saber
>Gets serious
>Disarms Finn in literally two seconds
>Knocks him down in literally three seconds
>toe to toe they say
Watch the fucking movie
>>64678761
>Doesn't kill Finn when he Knocks him on his ass
>walks away instead
>this somehow isn't evidence
You're b8ing right?
>>64683815
You do know that even if it's true, it's still bullshit considering that their competency in anything sucks ass as Stormtroopers never hit shit with their blasters ever
>>64686449
Reddit BTFO
>>64686449
>be stormtrooper
>trained for lyfe
>can't hit broadside inside a barn
>Dindu traitor somehow manage to handle lightsword well contrary to Stormtroopers' marksmanship in general
You are right
>>64681061
>the most skilled samurai in history in sword fighting
>kylo ren
>>64685807
Yeah, and he clearly spent more time teaching Ben how to do force shit instead of lightsaber battling.
>>64672783
Here here OP.
>Lightsabers are the preferred weapon of both Jedi and Sith, although that doesn't stop anybody else from attempting to use them(as seen there less effectively).
>Finn even if a lackey was a stormtrooper.
>Kylo Ren was still being angsty emo piece of shit after killing daddy Han Solo and likely wounded badly by Chewbacca's blaster
>Kylo Ren is likely overrated among the First Order's ranks and might not be a big deal as a force user.
Kylo could have used the force to turn off Finn's lightsaber.
>>64687285
>Force choke the lightsaber
>Crystal cracks
>Can't contain the energy, lightsaber explodes
I would pay to see this, but it would break the universe.
>>64687285
Pointless, because he wanted to get that lightsaber
>>64685466
>also why is this argument so special to you its just a movie can you talk about it without getting so emotional
Literally the exact same question could be asked of you
>>64672783
Kylo turned him into a paraplegic in three moves and wasn't even taking the either of them seriously. Rey only got a decent hit in because his dork ass wanted that jedi v. He tanked all four of them.
JUST...
>>64672783
In Kylo Ren's defense, he had been shot in the gut with a very powerful weapon, namely Chewie's bowcaster. So he was fighting through a wound that would down most normal men. This would substantially weaken him. He's also not a Sith Lord: while he may be a dark side user, he's the Master of the Knights of Ren (whatever that means), and not a member of the Order of the Sith Lords.
However, Kylo Ren was being trained by Luke, and killed all the rest of Luke's other trainees. Many people trying to defend this nonsensical duel have tried to claim that Kylo Ren is basically untrained, or inexperienced in lightsaber dueling, but this doesn't hold water considering what we already know of his history. It would take a great deal of power to wipe out all the other Jedi students and leave Luke powerless to stop him, and the entire ordeal would provide him with quite a bit of experience.
What's more, Luke had three years of self-training under his belt by the time he faced Vader on Bespin, and while this is hardly equivalent to three years of PROPER training, it was quite a bit more than Finn had. While Vader has many more years of experience, he was also much more significantly handicapped than Ren, being a quadruple amputee with serious burns over nearly all of his remaining body, stomping around in a big heavy iron lung. And Kylo Ren clearly fell quite some time ago, as he remarks to Lor San Tekka how old he's gotten, so Ren has likely been doing the whole dark side thing for at least several years.
The untrained argument further falls apart by the fact that if you watch Ren's fighting closely: while the moves are fairly simple they are clearly very practiced and poised. During his fight with Finn, he swings his saber effortlessly almost like it's a whip, and once he gets serious he uses something like Vader's OT style, only unencumbered by the suit; wide, powerful, well-aimed chops and slashes.
TL;DR: The fight is bullshit and makes no sense.
>>64689119
To be fair Kylo Ren's thumping his wound(was that what he was doing?) gave me vibes of Grievous coughing due being hit in the chest by the Mace Windu.
>>64689119
Then again, we don't know what Luke tried to do, if anything, to stop him.
>>64687509
Then, WHY DON'T HE FUCKING USE THE FORCE TO GRAB IT FROM FINN?
You can't come with any good excuse for this. It's simply shitty writing
>>64689389
the only decent explanation is that he wanted some practice/sport.
You can see he's toying with Finn and that he annihilates him as soon as he gets serious...
but yeah, its still pretty fucking stupid.
>>64689389
To me it looked like he was just playing around with Finn at first and then a little with Rey, that's another reason why he got his ass kicked.
>>64689389
Because he's a scrub, he thinks he's a big boy that can be the badass Sith Lord but gets his ass handled to him but a run off the mill stormtrooper and some scavenger that just learned about the force.
>>64689310
Near as I can figure out, he was punching his wound to do one of two things:
1) Spread the pain out more, diffusing it so it's easier to deal with. You can try this with your own wounds; the next time something hurts one of your toes, stomp on your whole foot. Your foot will hurt, but the toe will hurt less, or at least feel like it hurts less.
2) Use the pain to anger him so he can draw upon the dark side more fully and more readily. It doesn't seem to have helped, considering the power of the dark side and the fact that Kylo Ren doesn't seem to have it at his disposal. If it did work, it would seem like hax to me, because it means that a proper Sith can just self-flagellate his way to greater power at any time.
>>64678279
I love how simple this lightsaber duel is, compared to the long ass duel in Revenge of the Sith.
