Rey is a Mary Sue
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How can this even be debated?
She's incredibly competent in everything (can fly the Millennium Falcon like a pro, speaks Wookie, deadeye shot), acts like a stronk independent womyn who don't want no man holding her hand,and everybody likes her (Han offered her a job after knowing her for 10 minutes).
She also only has three expressions throughout the film: angered, bored, and "sad" ("ur family is nevr coming bak lol"). Seriously, look at her face.
How is this even up for debate anymore.
Rey is so boring, I don't get how people can like her.
She's Revan
le Max Landis faec
>>64478513
Rey a cute
>>64478513
>don't want no man holding her hand
if she did want fin holding her hand the /pol/tards would say it was racemixing propaganda
This is what happens when you abandon Technicolor.
>>64478513
The look on her face. You just know she wants Han's dick.
>>64478555
I can't get over how stupid JJ looks all the time. He's like a tall midget or something.
>How is this even up for debate anymore.
It's not. Every thread goes the same way
>but Luke was a Mary Sue too!
>no he wasn't, he got his ass kicked loads of times and it took him 3 movies and a great deal of help to achieve anything
>b-but PT Anakin was a Mary Sue too
>Only in TPM and people hated that character. besides, shit PT characters don't excuse TFA characters from being shit
>you just hate her because she's a girl!
rinse and repeat in the next thread
>ITT orgasm sheriffs
>>64478513
She's competent at everything because she was trained by Luke Skywalker. Her mind was wiped and she was put on Jakku.
>it's another Star Wars thread
It literally doesn't matter if Rey's character and abilities are qualified in the sequel. That argument has no baring on her being a Mary Sue. If she is revealed to be literal space god, it doesn't change the fact that characters like that are BORING. They're unrelatable.
Neo from The Matrix is a perfect example of a protagonist in a fantasy setting done well. There is extreme tension in his final confrontation with Smith. We FEAR for him because up until that point we've witnessed his SHORTCOMINGS and WEAKNESSES. The movie has established that he's not perfect which makes his final fight far more ENGAGING. The odds are stacked against him. In the end he is revealed to be The One; effectively a god with the film's reality. But the reason we route for him and become invested is because we've seen him fail the jump. We've watched Morpheus beat the shit out of him. We've watched Trinity save him on the rooftop and we've been shown the Oracle to know far more than him and give him guidance. The One effectively gets his hand held by Morpheus and Trinity throughout the movie. It makes the payoff of his succeeding far more SATISFYING.
Rey doesn't have these moments. At all. People don't dislike her because she's a woman BUT being a woman is a big part of the reason why she is the way she is. In the current social and cultural landscape, JJ and Kennedy were so afraid of being accused of creating a 'weak' female charcater that they went too far the other way.
And, on a side note, any movie that can't stand up in its own right as a good film and relies on sequels to clarify massive holes in the protagonist's characterisation, has failed in the presentation of that character.
>>64478655
Pics or it didn't happen.
Film sux
/discussion
>>64478513
She looks like one of those potato faced characters that you can make in Oblivion.
What people see in this ugly bitch is beyond me.
>>64478655
>Han isnt dead. Rey just got that memory implanted into her
>Vader never died, Palpatine wiped Lukes memory and panted all the events after Jedi
This fucking theory.
>>64478655
We see her get dropped off at Jakku when she was like 4 and we see her counting the days spent there by marking them on the wall.
Fuck off with that amnesia damage control
>>64478830
She's like princess fiona from shrek.
>>64478655
Nice fan fiction.
>>64478513
It's a fucking fantasy children movie. Fuck off, of course she's a "Mary Sue". Jesus Christ. It's not Girl With The Fucking Dragon Tatto.
>>64478623
>tall
nope, just a midget
>How can this even be debated?
With denial of reality that is characteristic of some people who will take up arms to defend any women regardless of how shit and/or fictional she is.
>>64478717
10/10 post.
Sometimes that formula of a protagonist failing and succeeding is too cliche but it works for a fucking reason.
>>64478717
all the people defending rey are retarded
>No its ok that she is boring because it's justified within the universe!
this doesnt fix the fact that she is a poorly written protagonist
>>64478513
>How can this even be debated?
The better question is Does is matter if she is or isn't?
>>64479241
It doesn't. The movie was enjoyable despite this and some other flaws.
>>64479232
Especially in this genre.
What would you call the female version of The Chosen One who restores balance to the force?
>>64478513
>How can this even be debated?
If I was inclined to debate it it would be along the lines of JJ who understands next to nothing about working to accomplish anything or logical growth or character development in almost anything he's done made decisions to cut slower paced scenes that would give Rey reasons to or explanations why she would be so good at things. There's also the possibility that it was meant to be a hint or elude to some reveal in episode 8. They're more excuses of incompetence in film making rather than this character was written and was always intended to be some second coming infallible "Marry Sue". But yea, everything in the movie we got delivered points to her being one.
>>64479445
The Chosen Onette
>>64479232
Cliches aren't bad. Bad story telling and bad stories are bad. They're cliches because they're good and they work.
>>64478717
Precisely.
>And, on a side note, any movie that can't stand up in its own right as a good film and relies on sequels to clarify massive holes in the protagonist's characterisation, has failed in the presentation of that character.
Pre-fucking-cisely.
Well put, anon.
>>64478655
That wouldn't excuse her from being a bad character.
>>64479141
You say that like the protagonist of the original trilogy of this very series was a Gary/Mary Sue, which he wasn't.
Children's movies is actually where you find the opposite of invulnerable protagonists. There weaknesses are how kids identify and become attached to them.
>>64479322
Why shouldn't you aim to make the best movie you can?
Why allow obvious flaws to creep into your movie when they're easily avoidable?
>>64480151
http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-mh-star-wars-the-force-awakens-stinks-20151226-column.html
Bruh.
>>64479602
Legitimately terrifying.
>>64480245
The criticism here boils down to how similar it is to the OT. There's nothing on the filmmaking itself. No commentary on the acting, the pacing, the mise-en-scene.
>>64480245
This guy is a beast. He's not fucking around.
>"The Force Awakens" is not a movie. It's the anchoring element of a vast commercial program, painstakingly factory-made for maximal audience appeal
>>64480451
you have to live in a fantasy land to think there's something remarkable or worth any critic noting in the mise-en-scene in a fantasy blockbuster movie, or any other element, like acting or editing.
Your post is infinitely emptier and worthier of dismissal than that review. I'd assume you're joking actually, talking about mise-en-scene with regards to some plebby action movie.
>>64480451
He comments on TFA being dull for long periods of time.
The pacing has got a lot to do with that.
>>64478513
>How is this even up for debate anymore.
Its not, everyone agrees that compared to Luke she is the biggest Mary Sue in the whole series. Unless they manage to pull somthing out of their ass the next movie is going to have this complaint even louder.
>>64480789
That's the thing. To engineer some vulnerability for Rey now is going to involve some major backtracking.
>>64481214
Well I was thinking more of a reason why she is stronger, or just a reason why like fewer force users means people who can use it are stronger.
Yea to give her a weakness now would be fucking retarded, and I hope they dont try that.
>>64478513
That's a sick vape mod, Han. Where'd you get that. How many Ohms
>>64478513
tell that to kanjiclub
>>64478513
>>64478637
>>64478717
finn and kylo ren thats about it.bb-8 and poe are good too.
>>64482003
Finn wasn't nearly as nuanced as he could/should have been.
Abrams turned him into Comedy Side Nigger #647
>>64482091
This. Finn is a good character but his personality does not follow from his background at all.
>>64478513
>oh ReySama please join my crew.
>>64478544
Rey Finn
ReyFinn
Reyfinn
Revan
Confirmed
>>64482091
yeah but still, these are the only characters in this new trilogy worth following and since JJ isnt around anymore there is still possibilities.
>>64478717
This guy gets it
>>64478513
>fly Falcon like a pro
watch the movie again.
>speaks Wookie
So do half the people in SW. Nobody has a problem understanding R2 or BB-8 either.
>deadeye shot
not really
>acts like a stronk independent womyn
subverting the damsel in distress trope for the sake of something new is suddenly a bad thing. It added to her and Finn's bickering.
>everybody likes her
It was more than 10 minutes and she showed she was adept at maintaining the Falcon as well as a decent beginner pilot. I do agree with you, however.
>She also only has three expressions throughout the film: angered, bored, and "sad"
Luke in ANH
She's an ex padawan for Christ's sake.
>>64482519
>Nobody has a problem understanding R2 or BB-8 either
rewatch the films.
>>64482519
>So do half the people in SW. Nobody has a problem understanding R2 or BB-8 either.
watch the movies again
>>64482669
Who has an issue understanding him? Genuinely curious.
Point is it shouldn't come as a surprise when characters can understand alien languages. Look at Han.
>>64482287
I can't see what's left for Finn in Ep8 and 9.
Where does his character go from here? I honestly don't see a big difference between his role and Jar Jar's.
>>64482767
Luke had to use the ship translator.
Be cause she's obviously destined to be the next Sith Lord once Kylo learns from Luke that Vader got redeemed.
God you fucktards are dense.
>>64482519
>She's an ex padawan for Christ's sake.
Cool fanfiction.
>>64478544
Please, no
Don't ruin kotor for me jj
>>64481214
I still say don't make her vulnerable. Make her the bad guy. Make it her mission to track down Luke for Snoke. And it totally explains why she's so likable why she's so talented in a wide array of things and why she ends up in the unlikely places she does in the movie.
>>64482791
On the run from the first order while learning how to lead the resistance and possibly harness the powers of the force.
>>64482767
Finn could understand bb8 or chewie.
Other characters couldn't understand chewie literally, but could basically tell what he was saying by the way he talking (basically just whine whine whine)
>>64478717
LITERALLY this.
And the Oracle tells him that he is a cuck and not The One.
>mechanic
Lived life as scavenger. Need to know what things do in order to know what to scavenge
>pilot
Flight sims, plus she probably took the QUAHD JUMPAH around a few times when she was bored
>fighter
Pretty young girl all by herself. Of course she learned to fight.
>force user
The force isnt magic. You dont have to know spells or incantations. Yoda's training in ESB was all mental. If the Force opens itself to you then you can use it easy.
>duelist
Kylo was severely injured
What else you got?
>>64478637
>took him 3 movies and a great deal of help to achieve anything
>blowing up a death star
>not an achievement
>>64478544
She actually isn't. Revan was already an experienced Jedi/Sith who trained under numerous masters throughout much of his life before he got mindwiped. He wasn't a toddler when he had his memories removed.
He also had to gradually relearn all of his force powers. It's not like he activated force mode and instantly remembered everything
>>64482945
>Lived life as scavenger. Need to know what things do in order to know what to scavenge
>Flight sims, plus she probably took the QUAHD JUMPAH around a few times when she was bored
>Pretty young girl all by herself. Of course she learned to fight.
>The force isnt magic. You dont have to know spells or incantations. Yoda's training in ESB was all mental. If the Force opens itself to you then you can use it easy.
>Kylo was severely injured
How convenient...
Rey is a Mary Sue, deal with it.
>>64482091
Not really though. He goes on the run, and is still trying to go on the run instead of having courage up until he sees the starkiller fired. Then he comes back into action to help Rey and then tries to protect her against a guy he knows can murder him with his mind. He's actually pretty interesting but I think your hatred for the movie doesn't let you see that.
>>64482940
how did the cat do that anti-gravity move
>>64482982
Just like Beggar's canyon back home.
She's Luke Skywalker's daughter. She fucking well better be good at everything.
>>64480063
>which he wasn't
and then after dodging a training remote the farmboy trusted the force and blew up the death star and defeated darth vader and was the bestest jedi ever :)
>>64482945
Another Rey fag completely misses the point
>>64482813
You know, people would say its bullshit, but if that is how it all goes I would kinda think its cool. Someone who worked and worked to become a powerful sith getting redeemed and someone who had all the power come to them easily turns to the dark side because she is a lazy power hungry cunt who wants more power.
>>64482808
Then how does he understand him in scenes where he's not in a ship?
>>64482828
>whining about shit that you don't know the full story behind
If you couldn't deduce that from the movie you have no common sense.
>>64482940
>LITERALLY
Found the Millennial.
>>64482982
He got his ass saved by Han and Obi-Wan kept fucking telling him how to do shit.
And that was literally the only thing he did right in ANH.
You just know !!!
>>64483075
Butthurt: the post
How the fuck is she so good at using a lightsaber when fighting Kylo? Does JJ think being competent with a staff translates to sword fighting in any way? It can't be explained away with the force because everyone knows full well that the force doesn't automatically make you good with a lightsaber. I also love how she knows more about the Millennium Falcon than Han and can speak wookie and talk to droids...
>>64483075
>nu uh NU UH
>How can this even be debated?
It will be "debated" until the influx of tumblr contrarians that have lately settled in /tv/ get bored and fuck off.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2016/01/04/no-rey-from-star-wars-the-force-awakens-is-not-a-mary-sue/
http://www.vox.com/2015/12/28/10672628/star-wars-force-awakens-rey-mary-sue
OP bTFO
>>64483194
trusted the force
>>64483261
If only every other jedi in history just trusted the force like she does they wouldn't need any training at all!!!
>>64483144
>focus on how others write
nice argument Tbh
Why is this in an issue though? Her being good at everything sets it up nicely for a bigger downfall tbqh.
>>64483144
>Then how does he understand him in scenes where he's not in a ship?
He guesses. For example on Dagobah;
"If you're saying coming here was a bad idea, I'm beginning to agree with you"
Or in ANH he relies on C3PO at the beginning.
>>64483260
These are just willingly ignorant blog posts attacking a dumb strawman
the cheapest form of "debate"
the Forbes guy is getting BTFO in his own comments section, he forgot to turn it off like the chick on Vox
>>64483194
>good at using a lightsaber
watch the movie again and pay attention this time. She gets rekd until she unbalances the already injured Kylo.
>Does JJ think being competent with a staff translates to sword fighting in any way?
It does
>everyone knows full well that the force doesn't automatically make you good with a lightsaber
So you don't need to be force sensitive to fight like Maul did in ep. I?
>knows more about the Millennium Falcon than Han
? she knows as much, due to her being a scavenger and having prior knowledge of the Falcon.
>can speak wookie and talk to droids...
That was never a problem in previous films.
>>64483296
yeah though
>>64483346
>It does
Spotted the retard.
Rey is Plagueis' second try.
The Skywalkers were the Force's defense mechanism against the Dark Side. But this time Plagueis succeeded and created Rey. Rey Starkiller whose Dark Side destiny was locked away after she was stolen from Plagueis' clutches by Luke and her memories locked away. In response, Snok/Plagueis claimed Ben.
Reminder that Rey not only managed to mind trick a stormtrooper after never trying to do so but she did it WITHOUT THE MANDATORY HAND WAVE THING
>>64482813
This would be an excellent twist and I'm glad I read this today, thank you anon.
>>64483346
>That was never a problem in previous films.
It does when tards need to scream about women or whatever
>>64483298
Guys literally I can't even with this post. Literally I just literally can't.
>>64483328
I just say ESB with my nephew. He definitely understand him, but you're right, not in ANH.
>>64482519
>watch the movie again.
how does she not fly the falcon like a pro?
>not really
of course she is, she doesn't miss once
she hits stormtroopers from miles away with a pistol she's just been given by han and never used previously
Rey-Rey Sue is a Mary Sue.
>>64483399
>MANDATORY
evidently not
>>64483382
It doesn't? Why does almost every martial art teach you to fight with staffs before moving on to swords?
They played KOTOR and thought Darkside Bastilla would be a cool idea to steal and stick in the movies.
Rey is Bastilla.
>>64483194
How the fuck is Luke so good at using a lightsaber to deflect blaster bolts blindfolded? Does JJ think being competent with a blaster translates to blindfold blaster deflecting in any way?
Its the Force, faggot
>>64483390
if that was true, it could redeem some of the shitshow that was TFA
But it won't be, because Disney doesn't want a complex plot to distract the average viewer from spending their money
>>64483449
>how does she not fly the falcon like a pro?
remember when she crashed it into the ground a bunch family?
>>64483399
Reminds me of Full Metal Alchemist when everyone else needs to use those transmutation circles to use magic, but the main character learns to do it without one.
>>64483458
Where in the movie does it show or even imply she's ever picked up a sword before the lightsaber?
>>64483473
>How the fuck is Luke so good at using a lightsaber to deflect blaster bolts blindfolded?
He was trained by Obi-Wan. Did you even watch the OT?
>>64483458
So you're admitting the staff is an utterly rudimentary melee weapon that is merely the first step before you move on to the much more complicated sword
If a child understood a Goosebumps novella would you have full faith in them comprehending and relaying Infinite Jest?
>>64482813
If pic related happened, Rey would actually be interesting.
>>64483505
Remember when she shakes off two professional TIE Pilots in a cargo freighter in the innards of a Star Destroyer phamilee?
>>64483415
This. I'm no femenist but if she was a guy no one would question it.
>>64483449
>how does she not fly the falcon like a pro?
bangs into everything, fails to outmaneuver tie fighters, nearly crashes it in the beginning. She even said she has a flight simulator when she's talking to Finn after they escape, plus she could pilot that speeder.
>of course she is, she doesn't miss once
watch the movie again.
>>64483473
except han says immediately afterwards that it isn't impressive because he doesn't do that against actual people and he could've just been lucky
TRY AGAIN REYFAGS
>>64483419
>being LITERALLY mad at someone who uses the word "literally"
>>64483144
When watching a movie, the fewest times we have to ask ourselves "how does this character know this?" or "how did this character manage that?", the better the execution of that character.
It's symptomatic of current movie/audience culture that for some reason makes it ok for movies to no longer be complete stories in their own right. People turn up to cinemas these days to watch "Part 1" of movies which really only amount to trailers for sequels.
Cliff hangers are fine. Character expansion is fine. Gaping characterisation holes are not. People have genuinely posted here that they'll wait two years to see if the characters in THIS movie were done well. That's moronic.
In ANH, we don't find out that Vader is Luke's father or Leia is his sister but within ten minutes of meeting Obi Wan, we know that Luke is force sensitive. We find out he's the son of Anakin. Later on we find out he's a good pilot and a better shot. Everything to explain Luke's abilities is in ANH. Rey is being written backwards.
>>64483576
>Rey, my guns stuck!
>here, let me pull off this incredibly difficult flipping maneuver in said smuggler freighter to perfectly align a shot to take out this fighter plane
>How'd you learn that, Rey??
>oh, I scavenged and stuffs
>>64483546
Beginning. She beats up 2-3 guys and Finn with her staff.
>>64483552
I didn't find them that different, and she was nearly beaten until she knocked Kylo off balance.
>>64483682
>Beginning. She beats up 2-3 guys and Finn with her staff.
So you think a staff and a sword are the same weapon?
>>64483616
I can't believe there are so many people who don't realize this
It's an episodic, character based soap opera drama
>>64483505
>bumps enormous antique that hasn't flown for years
>not a pro
remember when she pulls a midair stall so finn can shoot straight downwards? man she sucks
>>64483602
>fails to outmaneuver TIE
...but she does outmaneuver them, that's why she wins the dogfight and they don't
they're also smaller, faster, aren't a hundred years old and are flown by actual pilots. still not enough to take down rey! can't slay the rey!
>pilot speeder
>i can ride a motorbike therefore i am a fighter pilot
>watch again etc etc
when does she miss
>>64483576
That didn't even happen. Now you're just making stuff up.
>>64483608
Found another Millennial.
>>64483650
>the only example of implausible flying
kek you're donezo senpai
>>64483682
>what's the difference between a long staff and a sword lulz
girl detected
>>64482813
Just a copy of jacen solo and the sister
>brother is evil, kills other students on yavin 4
>turns to darkside following hologram of the emperor
>emperor only a hologram being controlled by Imperial Royal guard (idk the red cunts)
>Needed to turn jacen to kill the jedi for them
>Sister comes on rescue, turns to darkside
>Brother redeemed saves day
It isn't going to be a knock off of the books they litterally talked shit about is it?
Snoke isn't just going to be a hologram right?
On another note, are you cunts not sick of seeing the team of 'goodies' spending 10 minutes dropping shields then blowing up a death star? Because idk I read some of the books, and they literally have an entire galaxy, with endless possibilities.
What would you cunts like to see in the dark side? Literally they could of dropped a cult of pure sith out of thin air (unexplored space). Like are the republic supposed to be scared of kylo/snoke? Kylo captured rey, couldn't even break her whilst she is tied up.
So this girl from a nothing planet, is captured by the "evil" army, personally by this evil cunt who proceeds to question her then simply let her go.
NO FEAR THOUGH OUR BRAVE AND LOYAL COMPANIONS will get the feared captain phasma to talk without even having to question her. The leader of the big bad fucking army, is a pacifist, weasel who's character makes no sense.
Also fuck that slut from tarth
>>64482945
I don't have a problem with your explanations it's just most of them aren't in the movie. She could have learned her mechanical knowledge from scavaging but they should have shown her testing parts to see if they were functional and disregarding the junk so she could get a better price, maybe some skilled haggling explaining how good the things she brought in were. She could have had some flight skills but the Flight sims scene or any mention of her doing that wasn't in the movie. Instead they went with her looking adorable wearing an old helmet while eating rations. Fighting was cool. Some knowledge of the force is understandable, I don't have a problem with the visions or that maybe it even helped her pilot better than any other person that just had simulator experience (which again was not mentioned in the movie) but quickly learning mind manipulation with what was it 3 or 4 test try's in a few minute period is some savant child prodigy type shit. I'd even willingly accept the pull of the lightsaber if Kylo had been standing over her and in this desperate show of hopelessness she just gives everything she has into getting a weapon that can protect her and Finn.
Being as strong or as capable as she is isn't the problem it's the movie does nothing to show why or how she got that good. She is just good without any story or explanation.
She's no more of a Mary Sue than Luke or Anakin tbqh
>>64483616
Rey's explained pretty well in TFA and any questions about her force abilities can be left under the force works in mysterious ways like how the force is explained in the original trilogy.
At this point people here are just complaining just to complain.
>>64478555
So Abrams is slowly turning into a really shitty Yoda...
>>64478513
We get it you guys. You don't like that a female is the protagonist in the new Star Wars. You're going to continue citing points that illustrate that you don't understand what Mary Sue means, and that can easily be disregarded with context from the film.
>How is this even up for debate anymore.
Because you frothy retards are constantly whining about it.
>>64483769
remember when luke did the death star trench run?
>>64483650
Even if she could repair and replace parts in the Millennium Falcon better than Han himself, flying it is a different story. From all we've seen, she has only ridden a landspeeder. Her being good at piloting from simply salvaging and scrapping is like a mechanic being a professional racing driver it's two different skill sets entirely.
And even if she was a naturally good pilot like Luke and Anakin, her being good at target shooting, lightsaber combat, and infiltrating the mind of a premature Sith-esque Dark Side User who managed to slaughter an entire academy of Jedi trainees, and then defeat him in hand-to-hand combat definitely makes her a bit of a Mary Sue.
>>64483845
Remember how Luke was already a fantastic due to flying his entire life?
>>64483808
>2016
>having a problem with how a character is portrayed in a space fantasy
Try to enjoy things for what they are every once and awhile.
>>64483846
The force taught her you stupid idiot
>>64483808
>She is just good without any story or explanation.
the
force
The Force
no amount of argument will topple "the force willed it and it was so"
>>64483845
>flies in a straight line with squad of pros
also, even if luke is badly written, it doesn't exclude rey being badly written
>>64483773
>Millenial
>kek you're donezo senpai
>>64482982
>blowing up the death star
With Obi Wan giving him step by step instructions from the afterlife over space teamspeak
>>64483845
Luke didn't need to scavenge to live. Luke had lots of spare time and had a T16 specifically to train with. It's pounded in our head throughout ANH. He isn't some well-rounded MacGyver, he's a good pilot and a good shot, and he comes through on that at the end.
>>64483885
no, he was a farm boy actually.
if you mean the landspeeder, rey has one of those too
>>64483921
>That's not how the force works
>>64483725
A lightsaber is basically a staff with a smaller grip so yeah. She doesn't even use it well.
>>64483616
>Rey is being written backwards.
I agree, bad choice on JJ's part though I wouldn't put it past him.
>>64483769
One tie gets shot and cashes, the other gets shot while the Falcon is pulling an erratic move.
>pilot speeder
you forgot the pilot sim perviously mentioned
>when does she miss
Fist time she shoots the thing. Shooting a stormtroopers. Shooting at Kylo. You can't argue this without having payed attention to those scenes.
>>64482945
You're missing the point. It doesn't matter how many reasons there are (not shown in the movie) that explain her invulnerability.
She's boring either way because she's so competent.
>>64483885
And besides, even as a good pilot, he needed Han Solo to bail him out during the run, and piloting was really the only thing he was naturally exceptional at until RotJ, where he was already a different character
>>64483899
>Eat this shit
>No! I don't like this shit
>Why do you have to have taste? Just eat the shit
>>64483773
tell that to Kanjiklub
>>64483819
It's nothing like the force in the original trilogy. Luke had a very clear, obvious and gradual understanding of the force. He only uses it once at the end of A New Hope to aim a shot, he struggles to do a force pull and just barely pulls it of in the Empire Strikes Back, several years later, etc. Rey didn't even know the force was real until minutes ago and is instantly better at it than someone who trained under Luke for years and could freeze a blaster bolt in mid air.
>>64483943
Which is never explained how he does it in the context of ANH. But the force can only work in mysterious ways for the OT right?
>>64483946
>Luke had lots of spare time and had a T16 specifically to train with
New canon, senpai.
>>64483845
Luke literally flew in a straight line, shielded by dozens of other rebels and then got his ass saved by Han while Obi-Wan was giving him instructions through a walkie-talkie.
>>64483963
>A lightsaber is basically a staff with a smaller grip
No it isn't. Sword fighting and staff fighting are completely different styles. You can't be this stupid.
>>64483793
excellent argument! You called me a girl, that really showed me!
>>64483938
>being this mad
>>64483963
tell that to Kanjiklub
>>64483773
Dude what movie did you watch
Did you walk into the Alvin & the Chipmunks 4 Theater by accident?
>>64483086
His role as the comedy side kick is a contradiction of his character's background.
>>64483958
He was going to leave the farm to be a pilot for the Republic.
He doesn't even do anything that spectacular during the trench run other than aiming the shot, which was the force. Compare that shit to Poe in the Force Awakens. He also had to get his ass saved by both Wedge and Han
>>64483999
What are you trying to say, moron
>>64483988
the force can't excuse anything except for when it suits me I hate rey if I yell enough on /tv/ maybe she'll go away
>>64483975
>my critique of a fictional character in a fantasy universe really shows how tasteful I am.
>>64484012
Girl detected.
>>64484012
tell that to Kanjiklub
>>64484027
>same release date
what was disney thinking? no wonder tfa didnt do well.
>>64484011
>staff fighting doesn't translate to swordfighting
You can't be this stupid. She doesn't even fight Kylo well.
>>64478513
>How can this even be debated?
It can't.
This is why her defenders claim Luke and every male protagonist is one as well.
>>64483978
You know the force works in mysterious ways though right?
>>64484027
>Anvil & the Chipmunks
>>64483458
>Why does almost every martial art teach you to fight with staffs before moving on to swords?
So you aren't swinging around something you can cut yourself with and it gives you a base knowledge of fighting with an extended range. In some cases it was so you could understand the moves and mindset of fighting someone using a staff and how best to overcome it. In some schools they run students through all the weapons forms to some degree to find out what they have an aptitude for. But in Sword schools the may start off with short staffs held like swords or wooden swords but they don't teach the staff in preparation for teaching sword techniques.
>>64484066
>>staff fighting doesn't translate to swordfighting
It doesn't.
>>64483999
Still canon, his T16 is in the movie and he mentions using it to nail Womp Rats
>>64483134
>and then after dodging a training remote the farmboy got saved by the princess he was trying to rescue, then got saved by the roguish third from a sewer monster, then got saved by the bumbling comedic relief character, then had to get told by a dead guy to get his ass in the ship or he would get shot by Stormtroopers, then got berates by the third for getting too cocky after getting a single kill on an enemy starship, then got kept in the dogfight by the Swiss army knife robot, then got saved by the third AGAIN from the big bad and his friends, then got guided by the voice of a dead guy, then blew up the Death Star.
>Then he became the worst Jedi ever.
Ftfy
>>64483075
Yeah and the actress can't act.
Literally has high school drama class facial expression and her speaking is so fuckin cheesy
>enter falcon
> OMG AYY DIS THE MILLLENNNIUMMM FALCARN DAT MEANS UR HUN SULU a
>>64484012
excellent argument! You called me a mad, that really showed me!
Tell that to Kanjiklub
>>64483042
Maybe they implanted in her that they left her there as a child. Face it cuck, they're going to ruin Revan
>>64484066
>she doesn't even fight Kylo well
and yet she inexplicably beats him, a trained saber wielder
>next up on the typical checklist: he was injured by the bowcaser, he had internal conflict
>>64484027
I watched TFA. What did you watch? TPM?
>>64484052
Would that make any difference? For the record I'm a guy though.
>>64483978
>gradual understanding
"I deflected the training remote shot and then I blew up the death star very gradual"
>>64484042
We didn't see him training in the skyhopper because that's now Legends material. We see him playing with the toy and it was in the garage but Rey also grew up with ships nearby so if you're going to assume that Luke practiced flying because of that, you can assume she also flew before
>>64484099
Does he actually own a T-16. He claims it was "his" but from what we're shown, he's just a poor moisture farmer that drives an outdated speeder barely worth 2000 credits. Why didn't he also sell the T-16 to help pay for their passage to Alderaan?
>>64484043
no one likes rey there is NO excitement like there was for Luke. nobody has a rey shirt nobody cares about her more than finn or poe or han despite her being the central protg
>>64483988
>Luke in A New Hope
>Uses it once to aim a shot
>Blocks a few bolts from a training droid, may have just been lucky according to Han
>Rey in the Force Awakens
>Can mindtrick someone, even though she didn't even know the force was real a short while ago
>Instantly skilled at using a lightsaber
>Can overpower another force user in mindprobing, even though said force user can freeze blaster bolts in mid air and trained under Luke for years
>Out force-pulls said force user
>HURR, THEY'RE THE SAME!
>>64483958
Luke: It's not impossible. I used to bullseye womp rats in my T-16 back home, they're not much bigger than two meters.
Just saw the movie, who was the guy in the beginning? The one that gave the map to Po?
>>64484093
>>64484098
Hence why she nearly looses.
>>64484130
If you took time to pay attention to the movie, and read the thread, you'd see why she beat Kylo. (for the 3rd time) She offbalanced him.
>>64484137
>would that make any difference
They have a terrible perception of reality in general and are more forgiving of lack of technicality
especially in terms of fighting and weaponry
She looks like the girl from the Casper movie.
>>64484155
>"I deflected the training remote shot and then I blew up the death star very gradual"
He was an excellent pilot already and was only flying in a straight line. He only used the force to help guide his shot.
Answer: The Force
>>64484109
>OMG AYY DIS THE MILLLENNNIUMMM FALCARN DAT MEANS UR HUN SULU a
whats up with that.
Lets say she knows what the millennium falcon is.
She knows the insides and outs of it better than han solo.
She also knows how to pilot it.
Oh and she also knows it's the legendary ship.
Why would she call it garbage? Does she know that the ship is garbage, at the same time knows how legendary it is?
>>64484046
>Critiquing a character is elitist
>Nobody is allowed to critique things because if you do, you're bourgeoisie hipster scum
Listen, it's my decision to waste precious minutes of life inconsequentially arguing on the internet. It's either this or suicide, and I used my last rope auterotically asphyxiating myself
>>64484130
don't forget
>he didn't want to harm her, only recruit her
why throw he away in the beginning and not finn instead
the fight at the end was jammed in there without a reason for it to be there.. kylo could just throw both of them into trees and walk off with the lightsabers
I'm hoping her skill at literally everything is explained in the sequel.
Super force-user genetically designed by Snoke? Clone of an ancient sith master? Female clone of Anakin/Vader?
If she's just Luke's daughter, that will be boring as fuck.
>>64484186
Remember when the force worked in mysterious ways?
>>64483346
She literally stands still with her saber locked with kylos for a good 2 minutes
Good thing kylo can't knee, punch, elbow or strike at all but stand there while she has a close my eyes coz das acting and power up da force and create an earthquake
datll show de bad men
HEHE GIRL POWAH girls do it better space style
who cares, it's space fantasy
>>64483846
>flying it is a different story
Seems like if you know how to fly one ship, you know how to fly another in the Star Wars universe. Not to mention we witness her go through a learning curve.
>From all we've seen, she has only ridden a landspeeder.
From what we've seen, Luke had only ridden a hover car.
>her being good at target shooting
Luke being good at target shooting.
>lightsaber combat
She's not. She was good at defending and jabbing. Spent her entire life learning how to fight.
>and infiltrating the mind of a premature Sith-esque Dark Side User who managed to slaughter an entire academy of Jedi trainees
Objection. Speculation. You don't know what form of treachery happened with the Jedi academy. No mention of slaughter. Also:
>immature.
The point isn't that she's so amazing. The point is that he fucking wasn't. He was sloppy and weak and brash. He inadvertently (re)awakened the force in her, and his attempts to recruit her allowed her to "defeat" him.
>definitely makes her a bit of a Mary Sue.
All fantasy and adventure protagonists are "a bit of a Mary Sue." The Mary Sue trope doesn't really apply to protagonists for that reason. They all are. It's a reference to a fan fic secondary character who is too much of a badass for their station, for no reason. We see reason why she would be capable at flying, mechanical engineering, and fighting, and she's supposed to be an audience surrogate that we like and relate to. That's not a Mary Sue. That's a protagonist.
>>64484155
HE SHOT WAMP RATS
IN HIS FUCKING T16
YOU SHIT
BIGGS VOUCHED FOR HIM
LEAVE THE THREAD YOU WAIFU LOVING LIMP DICK
>>64484217
That and he had an entire squadron of rebel pilots helping him, on top of the unexpected help of Han.
>>64484182
Yes. They couldn't make it in time for filming.
>>64484246
this
>>64484196
The "We don't need to introduce characters or exposition in dialogue" exposition guy.
>>64484246
b-b-b-but he was injured! A tiny girl can EASILY overpower a slightly injured man over twice her size!!!
>>64484137
>he watched TFA
i'm so sorry
>>64483462
Bastilla just sat in the ship while Revan, nigger and HK-47 were out doing all the work though.
And still not one of you Rey fags has even tried to address this
>>64478717
>>64484246
>She literally stands still with her saber locked with kylos for a good 2 minutes
Kylo wasn't trying to kill her retard. He was offering her a job.
>>64484230
Hey man don't kill yourself. There's just gotta be much more thought provoking films to debate the characters of than star wars.
>>64484155
>Blocks bolts from a training droid in a New Hope
>Aims a shot
>Several years later, in the Empire Strikes Back
>Barely just manages to to force pull his lightsaber
>Can't lift an X wing, needs to be trained by Yoda
>Pulls off a few flips and acrobatic stunts against Vader and holds his own, still loses
>Return of the Jedi
>More experienced, can use the Jedi mindtrick and also deflects blaster bolts in an actual combat situation
Compare that shit to Rey, who can do everything Luke could do instantly in the first movie, and better than Kylo even though Kylo trained under Luke for years
>>64484225
"this is the same model as some well known ship therefore it is that ship and is not in fact junk and well known ships can not age"
>>64484196
Lor San Tekka
>>64484215
Valid, but that doesn't apply to all of them.
>>64484246
>implying Kylo was trying to kill her
"You need a teacher"
>>64484225
She didn't know what the Falcon was like.
>>64483963
>One tie gets shot and cashes, the other gets shot while the Falcon is pulling an erratic move.
yes, this means she's a good pilot
you think finn does all that by himself?
>shooting, missing, etc
she takes out like four stormtroopers on her first try, she doesn't miss
kylo deflects shots, she doesn't miss him
>>64484292
7.5/10, decent.
>>64484307
dude, we all know Rey is a Mary Sue, we're just memeing.
the entire thread is shitpost.
two girls i know went to see TFA for the second time today.
so that's how they make their money, retarded teen girls
>>64484315
As an aside, how do you feel about women in general? Completely unrelated to this topic I'm sure. Just curious.
>>64484342
So then why does she know so much about repairing it?
>>64484311
there's no need to
i'm already deadwake me up inside
>>64482945
>Lived life as scavenger. Need to know what things do in order to know what to scavenge
By your logic the guys on those "lets go find junk" reality shows are expert mechanics. Taking something apart for parts is EASY. Putting it back together and fixing is HARD.
>Flight sims, plus she probably took the QUAHD JUMPAH around a few times when she was bored
Shit like that doesn't prepare your for real combat with TIE fighters and real world piloting. Luke was a great pilot but even Han slapped his hands when he tried to touch the Falcon's controls. "This ain't like dusting crops, boy!"
>Pretty young girl all by herself. Of course she learned to fight.
1 girl vs 2 guys (guys who are obviously tough criminals) is unrealistic. Luke was living a mob controller Tattoine but the sand people still kicked his ass.
>The force isnt magic. You dont have to know spells or incantations. Yoda's training in ESB was all mental. If the Force opens itself to you then you can use it easy.
Wrong. The Force is all around them. Some people are Force sensitive, but it takes training both mental and physical to use that sensitivity in practical matters. Rey doing mind tricks, pulling the lightsaber mid air, and beating Ren throws all that out the window. Jedi's normally start training and children and go through years as an apprentice before taking the Jedi trials. But Rey must have watched some Youtube vids or something...
>Kylo was severely injured
He was still able to walk, wield a lightsaber, force push Finn into a tree, etc. He certainly wasn't hurt to the point where he was borderline cripped and Rey got the edge. If anything he was toying with Rey for a little while because he wanted to ask her if he could train her. When she said "no" she went super saiyan and kicked his ass, when in actuality he should have kicked her ass in that moment.
Also, how is Rey, someone who lived in the desert heat, so immune to the cold?
>>64484369
4/10 non canon reboot capeshit forced diversity stupid story
>>64483819
Have you even seen the OT?
What you're saying isn't even close to being true regarding the force.
The anons of /tv/ have articulated their problems with the movie quite well.
>>64484392
Because it's a vehicle and she has experience fixing things
>>64484380
I like women. I don't put them on a pedestal though, much like I don't put men on a pedestal, and don't excuse them from criticism simply because they're women. And you? Just curious.
>>64484392
M A R Y S U E
>>64484320
Seems to have a lot of backstory for a 5 minute, no name appearance
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Lor_San_Tekka
>>64484246
also she straight up overpowers him when they're grappling
driver is 6'3 btw and she was recently slammed into a tree
the force lol
>>64484414
>Also, how is Rey, someone who lived in the desert heat, so immune to the cold?
Do you realise how cold deserts get at night?
No never mind you're right that's evidence of her being a mary sue worst movie of 2015 obviously
Can we get a "Rey is not a Mary Sue" bingo sheet?
something with spots like:
>Kylo was injured
>the force awakened
>she scavenges parts
>she practiced flying
>she only starting hitting everyone perfectly after missing her first shot
>Han Solo wanted a daughter bad
>she didn't know what the Falcon was (even though she knew what the Falcon was)
>she was mind wiped
>Kylo Ren wasn't really that powerful
etc etc
also
>since I justified her extensive ability in every domain imaginable that means that she isn't a Mary Sue
as if justification nullifies the existence of said traits as written in by the creators of this movie
>>64484343
Fist was on Finn's part, 2nd was on her part. Can a beginner not pull an advanced maneuver?
as for the second statement, watch the fucking movie.
>>64484392
Because she repaired it while on Jakku.
You won't know it's a famous ship just because you worked on it.
>>64484480
Some of those are decent counterargument. Add "It's a fantasy movie and she's the protagonist" to that list
>>64484239
>Super force-user genetically designed by Snoke? Clone of an ancient sith master? Female clone of Anakin/Vader?
dis
>>64484512
>just tern off ur brain
Alright, got it
>>64484442
>she's a mechanic, therefore she can fix EVERYTHING
There you go.
That's only one of her special Mary Sue powers that you will see this trilogy.
>>64478763
how long did it take you to make an oblivion character that somewhat resembled Rey? because i'm here to tell you that you've failed, reddit.
>>64478717
>They're unrelatable.
This is literally your only complaint: she's unrelatable... BECAUSE SHE'S A GIRL.
But when it's a boy you have no fucking problem with any of it whatsoever.
All that heap of word garbage you just piled together means nothing when you're as transparent as this.
>>64484480
add the "she uses a staff" one.
>>64484420
>non canon
EU fanboy detected, pic related.
The rest is just buzzwords from an addled neckbeard. I bet you think the prequels are great too.
>>64484414
>Luke was living a mob controller Tattoine but the sand people still kicked his ass.
Luke lived with his foster parents and worked on a farm. He probably didn't have much interaction with the mob world except maybe by paying protection money.
Rey had to fend for herself and work as a scavenger from a young age. She and Luke are not exactly comparable.
It doesn't fucking matter if they explain her Mary Sueness later on the series, a movie should never rely on supplemental material to explain away its main plot points, it's just terrible writing.
>>64484555
>This is literally your only complaint
except for everything else in this thread
>>64484480
>all valid arguments grouped together because girlz can't be strong!!!1
>>64484584
Video games do it all the time.
>>64484307
Word salad that spends a lot of effort to say nothing. Whole argument is predicated on Rey not being challenged or not having shortcomings or weaknesses, which is easily disproven by the entire fucking movie. You idiots are actively ignoring the fact that she absolutely undergoes a hero's journey character arc and changes as a person naturally thoughout the film. She shows FEAR, and is frequently demonstrated as being CONFLICTED, and NOT PERFECT, but you faggots disregard that because DAE Mary Sue!?!?!
>>64484492
you're not listening to me
yes, finn shot down the tie, and he is only able to do so (both times) because rey is such a ridiculously capable pilot
>>64484501
>Yeah bonds drives this legendary mustang
>I've been repairing this mustang and I know how well it works
>no it's just a hunk of junk though, it's not like I should know the ins and out of something and be able to assume how well it works
It's still a fast car.
>>64484611
that's why they have shit writing.
>>64484555
No, it's because she's perfect and barely struggles at all. That's not relatable, that's retarded.
>>64484601
>I'm butthurt about this debate because it's directed towards a girl
way to show your hand early
>>64484225
Love how she says that and that she's never flown it. I know it's retarded to compare that shit but Im assuming flying a ship like that would be harder than a plane like we have.
Yet she climbs in and doesn't proceed to ram straight into the ground, expertly getting away with her one mistake of bumping into the ground helping them get away by straightening up their exit and killing off those damn baddies!
Im glad she had a simulator too, because there's no way she would of sold that for food/nobody would of stolen it
Also pretty funny considering if TFA was real
Rey would have spent her life being raped and passed around, if she got captured by kylo he'd have had a run on her, torture the fuck out of her and then slit her throat or put a bullet between her eyes as shes strapped to the table.
>star wars is a kids show, at least the movies pre jj where good to sit down and watch.
You can enjoy this shit if you turn your brain off and just go in with the attitude of
WEW LAZORS
>>64484534
Who are you quoting?
>>64484611
Video games are not known for their stellar writing.
>>64484611
Video games are not movies.
>MGS4
>>64484583
Luke was living at home, but he went into town, obviously. Growing up on that planet you learn street smarts and how to handle yourself somewhat in a fight. But when your overmatched and outnumbered, you still lose, it's just reality. Oh, but Rey is a superninja 100lb girl who can take on 2 guys at once...
>>64484564
>EU
yes i'm european, so ?
literally ad hominems coming from a pre teen american nigger
>>64484246
the earthquake was the planet exploding
>>64484658
Perhaps the same could be said of Star Wars.
>>64484539
>Has worked on cars
>Can identify systems of a car
Holy shit guys I can fix everything! What the fuck I'm a Mary Sue of myself
>>64484611
>therefore it's fine
why does bad writing in one medium excuse bad writing in another?
>>64484643
Excellent counterargument!! You really showed me!
>>64484672
Most action/fantasy movies have protagonists who are unrealistically good at combat. For a movie, Rey isn't that remarkable.
only teenage low iq diversity audience liked your flick
how does it feels to have same taste as them?
>>64484692
>STAR Wars
>not Stellar
>>64484480
>as if justification nullifies the existence of said traits as written in by the creators of this movie
Nigger. Justification and exposition explaining WHY a character may be skilled is what makes a character explicitly NOT a Mary Sue.
Goddamn you tryhards are grasping at straws.
>Just because the writers established why the character knows about mechanics and spacecraft and knowing how to fight doesn't change that I really want to call her a Mary Sue because everyone else is.
Reminder that being a radical anti-feminist is just as bad as being a radical feminist
Rey was fine. She was funny, interesting, and her solitary nature wasn't due to her being "le stronk womyn", it was just because she was a solitary person who didn't trust many people. When she yells at Finn to "stop touching her", she's doing so because she knows she can handle herself without literally being led by the arm - which isn't a fucking feminist thing, it's a "any individual who has a morsel of self-reliance" thing.
I was genuinely surprised by how LITTLE they posed her as a "strong independent woman". Instead of forcing that in our faces, they just gave us a strong character who happened to be a woman.
Get over it, Christ alive. This is the worst meme I've ever seen.
>>64484673
>pretending not to know about the expanded universe
wew
>>64484622
Not really. 2nd time, yes, first time, no.
>>64484736
Name a few.
>>64484733
Why are you so upset
did you want everyone to love this character by default? they should have made her more likeable
I liked Furiosa fairly enough you faggot
>>64484766
The Phantom Menace
Revenge of the Sith
Return of the Jedi
>>64484539
Toobad that wasn't her only special mary sue power.
Would have been cool having the pilot, the ex storm trooper, and the mechanic. Guess jjabrums wanted lightsabres though so they had to make rey also a force user.
>>64484692
that's what the majority of posters in this thread are trying to say, at least where rey is concerned
>>64484808
I meant in its entirety.
>>64484555
Well i can't relate to some nerd girl movie played by Pamela Anderson either so what's your point? We're different and one is more inherently desirable and cuddled and defended, men can't relate and boys don't want to dream about taking stormtrooper black dick
Feminists whine all the time they are sociopaths who can't relate to men and they need female heroes so suck my dick you faggy cunt
>>64484754
Except there is no exposition other than a brief flashback of some little pants shitting toddler getting dropped off in the desert you fucktit.
Shoddy justification is nothing. They wrote her in as an all-powerful Mary Sue. I groaned every time she bested everyone at some new ability.
>>64484792
I assume your talking about Amidala. She didn't do anything that special. She just had a gun with a bunch of guys around her.
>>64484695
Guess what fuccboi.
I'm an ME and have a car I constantly work on.
If you showed me your new 2016 Benz and expected me to diagnose a problem I would have no idea where to start other than to sift through the manual. Yes I can tell you what all your components are and what they do but I don't know all the little nuances that compound add up when it comes to cars. Not to mention the fucking ECU and electrical system.
Also fuck you.
>>64484555
>YOU'RE JUST A MISOGYNIST
Please try actually putting up a debate next time.
>>64484771
No but having a spaz attack because she has a vagina is retarded. Lil Annie was a mary sue chosen one strongest in the force and married a queen
>>64484831
Darth Maul, buddy.
>>64484298
Bastilla for ultimate Waifu?
You will now notice her wierd head shape in the original picture aswell.
>>64478513
ALSO DROP THE GUN
>>64484771
I'm not upset
>frogposting
dropped
Furiosa was the epitome of a stronk womyn the feminists want to see more of. Rey was just a girl.
>>64484335
Why was he fighting her then? To capture her again? 10 minutes earlier she was literally strapped to the table. What's the end game for the baddies? Have every rebel soldier strapped to a table aboard the death star? #strictly no killing or bodily harm tho
>>64484897
Furiosa worked in tandem with Max and they complemented one another.
Rey needed NO ONE and did EVERYTHING
>>64484837
I think you're agreeing with what the other anon said.
>>64484756
Daily reminder if Luke was like Rey in a A New Hope.
*Luke is an expert survivalist living on his own in Tatooine. He isn't subservient to Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru. He loyally waits for a lost companion to return.
*Luke steals R2-D2 from a Tusken Raider on a Bantha who has captured R2-D2. The Tusken just watches and rides away.
*Luke can understand everything R2-D2 says. C-3PO is written out since he's not needed to translate.
*R2-D2 follows Luke around obediently instead of running away and generally just thinks Luke's awesome.
*Luke meets Obi-Wan and tells him he's just a nobody and didn't even know the Force was real. Obi-Wan hands Luke his father's saber and then disappears from the movie. No training required.
*Luke experiences a "vision" upon touching the saber for unexplained reasons. Magic lightsaber?
*Luke enters the Cantina and knocks down Ponda Baba and Dr. Evazan with a stick when they threaten him.
*Luke finds the Falcon with only Chewie inside as TIE Fighters start bombing the area. He jumps in and flies it with some wild maneuvers through Beggar's Canyon while Chewie works the gun port. They destroy the TIEs and return to get Han.
Is it even possible to write a competent female character and not haver be accused of being a Mary-Sue?
>>64484865
What about Darth Maul? He was a sith lord trained from a young age in both the dark side of the force and ligtsaber/staff fighting.
>>64484756
>Reminder that being a radical anti-feminist is just as bad as being a radical feminist
Radical anti-feminism doesn't even exist.
Being anti feminist is just being normal and mentally healthy. End of.
>>64484854
Note the qualification of "radical" in front of both "feminists" and "anti-feminists".
Reading comprehension is hard.
This is also not a response at all to my argument.
>>64484865
I didn't bring up the vagina thing, someone else did
Freudian slip in a way, more preoccupied with gender than anyone ITT
>I must defend my female character!
lol
>>64484899
>Why was he fighting her then?
Because he's a vaderaboo and that's what vader did with Luke
>>64484938
*Chewie is injured while running from Stormtroopers to get to the Falcon and Luke takes over as co-pilot.
*Luke fixes the Falcon's malfunctions by himself before Han can figure out what to do.
*Han is so impressed with Luke that by the time they get to the remains of Alderaan, he offers Luke a permanent job.
*They sneak into the back door of the Death Star unnoticed and somehow instantly find Leia's cell.
*Luke uses the Jedi Mind Trick on the guards at Leia's cell to get inside. (First time the Jedi Mind Trick appears in the movie.)
*Leia says Luke is amazing, thanks him and won't stop talking about wanting to run away with him and devote herself to helping him. Luke is not interested and says he just wants to be friends.
*Han somehow instantly finds the head Stormtrooper Commander and says he'll kill him if he doesn't shut down the tractor beam. The Stormtrooper Commander complies and they throw him in the trash compactor.
*Darth Vader finds the heroes. Luke watches as Han Solo confronts Darth Vader and is killed.
*Luke attacks Darth Vader and holds his own. He drops his saber but he is able to Force grab it before Vader can. (First time Force grab is seen in the movie.) Vader offers to train Luke. Luke lands several blows on Vader and cuts off his hand while remaining unscathed and Vader collapses in a heap. But there is an explosion that ruptures the platform between them and Luke must join Leia, Chewie and R2 back on the Falcon.
*Meanwhile, Wedge leads a small squad to do a bombing run on the Death Star. He easily hits the target without facing much resistance or even thinking about it much and the Death Star blows up.
*Luke officially joins the Rebellion at the end of the movie and is instantly selected to pilot a ship on a vital mission they've been waiting years to do. Their best pilot who just blew up the Death Star, Wedge, is passed over.
>>64484958
Sarah Connor.
>>64484938
>Oh Lukesama please join my crew.
>>64482813
But you can't have the girl be evil!
>>64484865
and little anakin was hated because of many things
>Darth Maul
wait what? he was trained in the force by sidius
>>64484938
>*Luke steals R2-D2 from a Tusken Raider on a Bantha who has captured R2-D2. The Tusken just watches and rides away.
What was that about, some guy catches a droid to sell, and then Rey is like, "Oonga da doonga" and the guy lets go of the droid.
>>64484899
what do you think "you need a teacher, I can show you the ways of the force" meant? That he was going to kill her?
>>64484930
Max was a side character. The whole movie could have happened without him in it and it would not have made a difference to the plot or the outcome.
>>64484972
>bury the lead and then giggle when someone talks about it directly
alright you little shit you're grounded
>>64484958
I've actually never heard of the Mary Sue complaint until now, which indicates to me that Rey fits the bill pretty well
Hard to get away with shitty writing in one of the world's most cherished film franchises
>>64484792
the central jedi get regularly merked in the prequels, what are you talking about?
>quigon killed in first episode
>obi wan gets lucky vs maul
>anakin and obi wan both destroyed by dooku
>obi wan and anakin repeatedly have to rescue each other from death situations
etc etc lad
>>64484875
Rey is bland-looking with some weird deformities like her forehead and xenomorph smile.
There, confirmed not Mary Sue.
>>64485049
>Hard to get away with shitty writing in one of the world's most cherished film franchises.
What is the prequel saga?
>>64484823
it's always been flawed for sure, but rey is the most glaring issue with TFA
>>64485025
Bullshit
ffs, the whole plan about going back to their base was his, the woman would have died out in the desert on a futile mission
>>64484960
>radical anti-feminist doesn't exist
>this whole thread
>>64484985
>*Meanwhile, Wedge leads a small squad to do a bombing run on the Death Star. He easily hits the target without facing much resistance or even thinking about it much and the Death Star blows up.
The Resistance took significant casualties in their attack. Implying that Poe faced little resistance because he survived is like saying Luke faced little resistance because he also survived.
>>64485082
The prequels got panned hard when they came out. How young are you?
>>64484512
None of those are any good
>Kylo was injured
He was injured earlier in the fight and was having the upper hand. Then suddenly Rey activates super saiyan force mode and is instantly skilled at using a lightsaber
>the force awakened
The force also awakened in Luke. He wasn't instantly better than Vader at it. All he could do was use it once to aim a shot, because he was inexperienced.
>she practiced flying
Only according to the novelization. Doesn't mean shit in the context of the movie. The novelization of Revenge of the Sith also claimed that Sheev, Windu and the Jedi were fighting so fast that Anakin's eyes couldn't keep up
>she only starting hitting everyone perfectly after missing her first shot
That actually makes it worse, because she didn't even know how to remove the safety from the gun at first, and then is suddenly a great shot
>Han Solo wanted a daughter bad
He barely even met her. And according to whom?
>she didn't know what the Falcon was (even though she knew what the Falcon was)
Speaks for itself
>she was mind wiped
She was dropped off at Jakku when she was like, 6. Are you seriously suggesting she learned all of these force powers, and how to use a lightsaber as a toddler? And she just suddenly remembered how to do everything, even though she forgot for years? That's insane.
>Kylo Ren wasn't really that powerful
He trained under Luke for years and froze a blaster bolt in mid air.
>>64485024
I think it's the fact that BB-8 was still "alive," and not some deactivated piece of machinery that she stopped him. Rey tells BB-8 "oh that's just <name>, he's always around to collect junk" or something.
>>64485082
He didn't get away with it, he was berated and harassed until he finally gave up his own creation
that is about as "not getting away with" as it gets
>>64484865
Maul was a trained Sith Lord, you idiot.
>>64479530
literally this, upboat fellow ribbitor :^)
>>64485092
He spells it out for you and you're still denying it
>>64485093
???
and?
you think calling a fictional charater a Mary Sue because it is the fucking case cause she's badly written, is radical anti womenism?
holy shit
browse twitter someday and read the Killallmen comments.
>>64484934
youre thinking right.
you just bypassed the compressor which puts too much strain on the hyperdrive which you know for some fucking reason??
>>64484766
Luke Skywalker
Anakin Skywalker
Obi-Wan Kenobi
Crippled guy in Avatar
John Conner in T2
Sarah Conner in T1 and T2
Harry Potter
Bilbo and Frodo and Samwise
Neo
Indiana Jones
Mad Max
Sulu
Driver
Man With No Name
Dances with Wolvesman
Brenden Frasier
Korben Dallas
Bourne
Ash
>>64485137
He just got tired of making starwars. the PT were him just being lazy and trying to get his story done as easily as possible.
He said that he doesn't want to go through another 10 years to make starwars.
>>64485099
I think it's more to do with how little screentime it had. The Death Star battle in A New Hope dominates the screen for so long, only cutting to show shots of Darth Vader saying to get his ship, and showing the worried rebel base. But those cuts still have to do with the situation at hand, because destroying the Death Star is super fucking important.
The Starkiller, something INFINITELY more deadly than the Death Star, is on the backburner for the drama between Han/Kylo/Rey, diminishing the tension regarding the Starkiller entirely.
>>64485099
We saw X-Wing pilots in ANH dying left and right. Luke was on his own until Han showed up.
>>64485161
Translated from retard-
"I disagree"
>>64484827
>Feminists whine all the time they are sociopaths who can't relate to men and they need female heroes
why is this still a thing when it's obvious it's only about ruining male spaces and giving it to women?
"What's mine is mine and what's yours is ours"
>>64479445
Kindling
>>64478717
i'm not going to argue she could have been written better, because that's true.
but she does have moments where the audience can relate to her, and those are the moments when she is scared or trying to run away from her calling.
i mean at the end of the film she's handing the lightsaber back to Luke as if giving it to him will make all of it go away.
i don't see how a lot of people couldn't relate to that.
>>64485162
>with Max, they live
>without Max, they die
okay scoob
>>64485060
darkside is quicker, easier and evidently makes the wielder stronger
make Rey be a Snoke sleeper agent and I accept some of her overcapabilities moving forward, but as many have said in this thread, explaining holes in one movie in the sequel is bad writing
>>64484958
it's difficult as flaws would probably be met with a bigger backlash, (imagine Rey throwing Kylo's tantrums) but you don't even need to look further than the second biggest movie of the year at Furiosa, who is a main protagonist with obvious flaws that makes you care more or the character's eventual fate.. and that with barely any dialogue
>>64485119
>The force also awakened in Luke. He wasn't instantly better than Vader at it.
Rey wasn't better than Kylo. Difference is that Vader chopped Lukes hand off before offering him a job, Kylo tried to do it while she was still standing.
>>64485093
you realize they become empowered by mysogyny once they realize they cant attack the sweet little perfect rey who can do everything and you go girl you show han?
>>64485280
her expression looked like she was having a painful shit
and they did some kind of weird ass Bourne spin around the rock
>>64485192
>Luke Skywalker
>Anakin Skywalker
>Obi-Wan Kenobi
Luke gets his ass handed to him by fucking Tusken raiders and a random criminal in a bar; he loses his first duel with Darth Vader. Anakin loses his arm and duel with Count Dooku. Obi-Wan was too slow and got Qui-Gon killed, and he also got fucked in the Dooku fight.
>Crippled guy in Avatar
Oh fuck you it is blatantly stated that he is a veteran who fought in a lot of hot zones.
>Sarah Conner in T1 and T2
Fuck you I'm not replying to the rest of this, this is all bait.
>>64478579
well yes just because someone doesnt want a dick in their mouth doesnt mean they're fine with one up their ass
>everyone says how kylo got hit by a blaster weakening him
>no one remembers Rey getting knocked the fuck out into a tree
>>64485305
She not only resisted, but also overpowered Kylo through mindprobing even though she didn't even know what the force was until a short while ago.
She was also better at telekinesis. When both she and Kylo were trying to force pull the lightsaber she beats him at it.
>>64485093
>dislike a poorly written character
>"radical anti feminist"
>>64484897
Rey is 12312389 times more stronk womyn dickhead
At least furiosa had max around, star wars was literally men btfo
Daisy Ridley also comes off as a cunt, funny considering she ruined the movie not finn.
Put a male in instead of her and you'd have the coziest of bros with finn and him.
Literally anakin-obi wan, qui-gon-obi-wan or luke han tier shit woulda made it more entertaining than
IM A FEMALE WORSHIP ME for 2 and a half hours
>Movie is literally chick btfoing everything and every situation against incredible odds, with the plot relying completely on bullshit coincidence and luck and feminists are going off as if it's some great work of art
>>64485192
>Luke Skywalker
trained by Obi-wan Kenobi
>Anakin Skywalker
trained by Obi Wan Kenobi and Qui Gonn Jinn
>Crippled Guy in Avatar
ex-Army/Marine
>John Conner
trained by Sarah Conner
>Sarah Conner
didn't fight in T1, trained her body and mind in between T1 and 2
>Harry Potter
trained in Wizard School for 6 years, private lessons from various professors during that period
>Bilbo and Frodo
didn't really fight, more escapists
>Neo
got me there, I guess Morpheus & crew may have tauht him
>Indiana Jones
valid point
>Mad Max
Max was part of the police force during and before MM1
>Sulu
trained redshirt, plus he's asian, so naturally better at everything
>Driver
valid
>Dances with Wolves Man
ex US Army, but who knows how good training was back then, so it might be a avalid point
>Brendan Frasier
JUST
>Bourne
Everyone in that series was a legendary martial artist, so he wasn't really special
the rest I'm not very familiar with, but you do have a point with some
>>64485283
at what point does he do anything?
>>64485377
they remember, they just know that if she hadnt being knocked against the tree she'd have fly, cut kylo's arms and legs, thrown laser from her eyes and destroyed the planet core by using force choke
>>64485421
The rantings of a rabid MRA neckbeard
>>64484555
Nice strawman
>MUH-SOH-GI-NEEEE!!!!
>>64484830
>Implying they didn't show that her JOB was working in spaceships.
>Implying they didn't show her ability to defend her self in the first act.
You don't know what Mary Sue is. You "groaned every time" because you're a boring whiny neckbeard cunt that can't enjoy nice things because MUH MENS RIGHTS ARE UNDER FIRE.
Cry about it faggot. This conversation wouldn't be happening if the protagonist in this story was a male. And you dipshits are struggling to justify bullshit reasons to intellectualize why you didn't like a female protagonist.
>>64485192
>Luke Skywalker
Luke got his ass kicked consistently until ROTJ.
>Anakin Skywalker
Anankin didn't fight in Ep1 and by Ep2 it was 10 years into Jedi training.
>Obi-Wan Kenobi
In Ep 1 he was a Jedi in training for years...
>Crippled guy in Avatar
Don't remember, but weren't they all military?
>John Conner in T2
Future John Conner was trained for years by Sarah. Edward Furlong needed Arnold and Sarah.
>Sarah Conner in T1 and T2
In T1 she just ran away with Kyle. In T2 she had been working out and training with militia in Mexico for years.
>Harry Potter
Didn't become a "great" wizard until Book 4. Every other time he saved by something else (Dumbledore's bird in book 1, etc).
>Bilbo and Frodo and Samwise
Did you watch the movies? Frodo and Sam are 2 feet tall and are constantly getting hounded by big people so they break off from the group and sneak into Mordor.
>Neo
All of his "skill" were programmed into him by Tank. At the end of the film did he realized his "chosen one/Jesus stature" Did you watch these fucking movies?
>Indiana Jones
Indy was 40 in the first film and had been adventuring for years. He can take on a few thugs on the run, but he's constantly caught, tortured, etc.
>Mad Max
He was a tough cop.
>Sulu
He was Asian and a Gay Ninja.
>Driver
He can drive good. That's about it. Wasn't he bleeding to death at the very end?
>Man With No Name
Wild West gunslinger.
>Dances with Wolvesman
Military guy.
>Brenden Frasier
JUST
>Korben Dallas
Haven't watched it in a long time, can't remember details.
>Bourne
Super military agent guy.
>Ash
He's either a great Pokemon catcher, or he has a chainsaw on his arm.
You're a fucking moron.
>>64484849
>debate
lol
>>64485506
Can you reply to these:
>>64478717
>>64484938
>>64484985
>>64485497
not him but better to be a neckbeard than a mlady fedora nice guy bowing to le stronk womyn when she'd secretly want to be dominated with fuckloads of rape fantasies
>>64485421
Listen m8, I hate her as much as the next guy, but she wasn't forced as a feminist idol, the problem wasn't with her being a woman, her problem is genderless.
she was just badly written and a typical JJ Abrams character
along with all the points >>64478717 made
>>64485446
>Neo
"I know Kung Fu." Also Morpheus wooped his ass
>Indiana Jones
He fought in World War 1, joined the OSS during World War 2
>Driver
It's implied that he's been heavily involved in crime
>>64478655Incoming neckbeards who will probably try and shame me for fucking up a spiler
test
>>64485590
> the problem wasn't with her being a woman
actually from the way you cant analyze her yes it is now yeah
and it's most likely most of her problems were from being a woman in the writers hands ("she cant be a damsel in distress, she doesnt need help" etc)
>>64485168
>>64485314
>>64485407
This board's gleeful obsession with ripping this character a new one just goes to show the paranoia of both sides. While feminists are convinced that whitewashing/a lack of female characters/etc means the story is automatically horrible and misogynist, anti-feminists are convinced that any woman that's portrayed as independent - poorly written or not - is an attempt to "SHOW YOU, MEN ;)"
Even if she is poorly written (even though most the arguments for her being shit are "muh power levels"), she's only being ripped apart so much because /tv/ is convinced that Disney tried to force a feminist viewpoint on their movie.
If she's poorly written, she'd be just as poorly written if she were a guy.
>>64485192
>>64485608
there you go bud
>>64485497
more like literally nothing wwrong with MRA and having nice beard genes.
hairless balding fagshit
>>64485671
do you think people liked young anakin in TPM?
Or do you think Jake Loyd was bullied like crazy?
>>64484897
Furiosa and Max were completely dependant on each other for survival.
This is established and made clear over and over again.
>>64485671
didnt read, you're sick
>>64478717
This post is GOOD and NON-MEME but it could DO with LESS CAPS
>>64485508
Ash actually got his ass kicked for most of the first two Evil Dead movies. He didn't really get good until the end of the second one/the third one, and by then he's had a lot of experience fighting deadites. And yeah there's the chainsaw arm
>>64485671
i don't care about disney forcing anything on the movie
there are endless posts on here (probably to get a rise out of nerds, i know) about how rey ISN'T BADLY WRITTEN, and i want to respond when i see those, because i think she is badly written
you talk about paranoia, and i'm sure there are guys that hate women and whatever else, but i think you're a little paranoid yourself. this is star wars, which a lot of people here are obsessed with. every last thing is going to be analyzed, deconstructed, and argued over. rey's apparent genius aptitude for near-everything, like it or not, is going to come up (a lot).
>>64485321
>>64485446
>>64485508
Asked for characters that WERE UNREALISTICALLY GOOD AT COMBAT. You nerds justifying why they were doesn't change the fact that THEY WERE UNREALISTICALLY GOOD AT COMBAT. You nerds justifying why they were good is exactly the goddamn point.
Whether or not they were a veteran, or a cop, or had survived on a hostile planet scavenging and fighting for a decade are all just as reasonable of a justification for their being UNREALISTICALLY GOOD AT COMBAT.
>>64485735
Young Anakin is a separate issue entirely. A grating voice, poor acting, and poor dialogue are his issues.
Rey was well-acted, fairly well-written, and funny.
Objectively poor acting/character overall vs. Potential problems with story, lore, etc.
>>64485865
>Rey was well-acted, fairly well-written, and funny.
>>64485845
Avatar guy was a veteran of many battles on earth. You give him a body that is far more capable than any human being ever, he gets good. It's not even unrealistically good.
Luke isn't even unrealistically good at combat, in fact, what the FUCK is your yardstick for "unrealistically good at combat," you imbecile.
>>64485845
But it's not unrealistic. Explanations were given for every character. They're either military, cops, trained Jedi, etc, or they were training for years on their own.
Rey had no training, and she's practically a ninja.
>>64485865
>grating voice
QUAD JUMPAH
>poor acting
YOU'RE HAN SOLO
>poor dialogue
YOU'RE A MOSNTER
>funny
uwotm8?
>>64485845
"unrealistic" is relative and depends on reasoning, and no real reasoning was given here
>>64485865
people were also annoyed at a slave kid being a good pilot and being able to build 3po and generally knowing too much... there just happened to be bigger issues in thatasa movie
>Rey gives me a boner so she's well-written weel-acted with good lore story cinematography good feminism too and oh my god i just came in fucking pants
>>64485804
Stupid fucks need caps or they won't read longer posts.
>>64485824
The issue is that it's not "genius aptitude". While a lot of the things she accomplished can be considered unlikely, it can still be chalked up to luck and/or mysterious force shit. It hasn't reached the point where she's a literally flawless character who can do no wrong.
You can't really analyze the Star Wars movies as individual movies, you have to wait for the full trilogy to be released in order to analyze the overall characters/plot/etc.
If she becomes a flawless woman character, than that'd be different. Trying to force a political viewpoint - especially something as flawed as feminism sometimes is - is a poor storytelling device no matter what the writers are trying to force.
>>64485280
Idk where you saw it mate, but everytime she opened her mouth and spoke in her retarded over the top voice or made a porn tier facial expression people laughed where I saw it
So Im laughing at your retarded idea that anyone can relate to her.
>Also her face when giving luke the lightsaber was some of the worst acting ive seen in any movie ever
>This kid is excited about it
lol@u
>>64484958
depend on how hot (or exposed) she is
nobody whines at super op hot chicks in tight leather pants
except for some feminists maybe
Are there powerfull OP chicks that everybody likes? Are there characters everybody likes?
Daisy a qt, but still in daughteru kinda way, I personally like her and I didn't get the marysue vibe during the movie, but now i see it. Still I think some of you are a bit overreacting.
On the other hand do you guys think she is Skywalker? wouldn't they confirm that in that part if that was a thing?
>>64485497
HURDUR neckbeard
Well you're a virgin cukk, see how the internet works mate?
>>64485937
>But it's not unrealistic.
No it very much is. All of those characters did things that defied physics, ballistics, and every other law of man or science. They were UNREALISTICALLY GOOD. Their skills existed outside the possibility of reality.
> they were training for years on their own.
COUGH Rey COUGH
>Rey had no training, and she's practically a ninja.
According to you, in spite of a first act's worth of exposition.
>>64485586
Buzzord after buzzword with this one. Found the MRA.
>>64485721
HAHAHAHAHAHA
>>64485739
No .Furiosa is show again and again to be better than Max at everything
next reybashing thread
>>64485441
>>64485970
>I can't relate to Rey because she has a different bathing suit area so I'm going to make empty complaints that sound like things I've hear movie critics say.
>>64485948
>actually comparing prequel Anakin to Rey's acting
grasping at straws much?
>>64485948
>YOU'RE A MOSNTER
ARE YOU AN ANGEL?
Can we talk about the stupid fucking "Lightsaber chose its master" crap?
Lightsabers have not been anything but weapons for the last 6 movies, and all of a sudden, JJ decides to make them sentient? Why does he make fun of people who don't understand the force, yet is clearly incapable of abiding by even the vague laws that already define it? Lightsabers aren't living things
>>64486109
>cuck
nice meme
>>64486154
well you shouldnt be able to relate, her bathing suit area is desireable, yours is not
>>64486208
Not according to your whore mother ya dingdong.
>>64478513
It's more of a side effect of how badly the movie was made. They should have saved the Imperius-Rex-Star for the 3rd installment of the set, and built up everyone and everything around preparation for it. The way things are now, the whole task of attacking the villains is a joke, and there was no suspense because it was obvious from the start that there was no way that such a ridiculously overblown device would be allowed to persist. Worst yet, we can now look forward to the second film being more bullshit about trying to top the power-levels of this film.
>>64486119
lmaoing at ur life
if i couldnt grow a full beard i would kill myself Tbh
>>64486251
holy shit that actually hurt, no wonder you're so much in denial that she's a shit hero
>>64486251
tell us where the bad man touched you
>>64486264
>They should have saved the Imperius-Rex-Star for the 3rd installment of the set
THISTHISTHIS.
The fucking republic was destroyed, but why should we as an audience give a fuck? We didn't know anybody there.
>>64486154
>he thinks i'm reading movie critics
>he thinks my complaints are worthy of being profesional movie critics tier
>he thinks i cannot form my own opinion in my own brain
life will be really hard for you
>>64486208
"i want 50 shades of grey with a homeless neckbeard instead of the executive"
YOU JUST DONT LIKE HIM BECAUSE HE'S BLACK
>>64486340
I don't think about you at all.
>>64486369
>he learns burns from soap operas
i bet you literally own a don draper fedora
>>64486369
but your wife does my good cuck
>>64486334
Princess Leia's planet was destroyed, but why should we as an audience give a fuck? We didn't know anybody there.
>>64485508
>look at my enters
>that makes my post so significant
