Thoughts? It was pretty ok.I'm glad they're not magically bringing Moriarty back to life even though his character is great
I actually suspect they will, if not magically.
What are their options?>It's an intricate pre-planned plot from beyond the grave
Shit. Predicated on Moriarty's assumption of his own failure at Reichenbach.
>It's someone just using the image to get attention for whatever dumb reason
Shit. Also doesn't explain "He is dead, but I know what he'll do next".
>It's someone literally pretending to be Moriarty
>they will at first only communicate through vine-length clips of Moriarty
Beyond shit.
>there were always two James Moriarties, twins.
It is sort of shit, but it might explain the long-ish rant about "It's never twins".
There is some support for this in previous installments. Note that Moriarty is clean-shaven when driving the cab where he shows Holmes the "Sir Boastsalot" video. Hours later, confronted as Andrew Brook, he has more stubble than you would think plausible for the amount of time passed. Also the first confrontation, at the swimming-pool, where he's like Nah, I won't kill you, steps out, then immediately steps back in all "Sorry boys... I'm SOOOOO changeable! It is a problem with me."
>it is a problem with me
I actually think it might be kind of cool.
>>64375603
I really didn't like how it was mainly a setup device. Keeping it as just a classical Sherlock story would have been so much better and instead it's hamfistedly part of the current plot
>>64376299
I think the twins theory has legs and might explain why they touched on it, apparently he has one in the books too. Still doesn't really make sense with the reichenbach fall if it was all planned.
Did it air? I can't find it anywhere. I guess all pirates are drunk or something?
>>64376459
It's been up for a while now senpai.
>>64375603
It was awful feminist drivel shoehorned into a detective series with the usual Benedict cumberbatch autism
>>64376475
I've been to my usual sites and piratebay, and it's not there. I'm not British, so I can't watch it legally at the moment anyway.
Hounds of Baskerville best episode
>>64376496
>feminist
I thought this would hated here because of this. I'm conflicted because strong female characters can and should exist, but I can't help that it feels like blatant pandering.
>>64376398
>Keeping it as just a classical Sherlock story would have been so much better and instead it's hamfistedly part of the current plot
I think they fell between two stools. I would have preferred either what you're saying, OR that once they cut to Holmes waking up on the plane, that's it - we get the first half hour set-up for whatever's going to happen in S4. Either would have been better than the hopping back and forth. We didn't need another mental confrontation with Moriarty, we already had that when he got shot last season.
>>64376440
He doesn't have a twin per se in the books, he has two brothers, both of whom are also called James. Don't ask me the fuck why.
>>64376529
>piratebay, and it's not there
But it definitely is. That's how I got it.
>>64376590
Some parents just don't have imagination.
>>64376573
No I mean really it was ridiculous how they just HAD to center the whole thing around whining about how wrong things were in the past. It felt more like some feminist psa than a Sherlock Holmes show
>>64376573
I thought at first it was cool for a period piece to show how women were treated, but then it became a major point of the episode and left a bad taste in my mouth.
Also Mary basically solves the case alone, and is shown to be smarter and more resourceful with just a cellphone than fucking Mycroft who is supposed to be the smartest by far.
>>64376616
Oh, turned out I was checking the mirror all that time. Didn't even know it was a mirror.
>>64376682
>and is shown to be smarter and more resourceful with just a cellphone than fucking Mycroft who is supposed to be the smartest by far.
They're bigging up her madd skillz, which I don't in itself mind, but that exchange with the cellphone:
>what do you think of MI5 security
>smirk, dramatic pause
(oh god it's the gandhi line she's going to do the gandhi line please not the fucking gandhi line)
>I THING ID B GRADE IDEA LAWL
... was pretty awful.
>>64376682
>shown to be smarter and more resourceful with just a cellphone than fucking Mycroft who is supposed to be the smartest by far
I wouldn't say that, she just doesn't care for the rules like Mycroft does.
He would rather go through the proper channels and access the information that way.
>>64375603
Moriarty's character was horrendouts actually. Made no sense and repeatedly had scenes taken right from Ledger's Joker.
The guy not only felt completely non-threatening, he also couldn't act for shit.
I hope the next season comes out this year but I doubt it with all the capeshit they have to do.
>>64376951
Really? I think Andrew Scott is pretty good at that role. Although...
>sexy is the new dead
was pretty cringe and the waterfall scene was kind of dumb.
>>64376987
What about him threatening to "burn" someone over the phone? What about that "make you into shoes" line? What about him generally acting like a giddy fucking 12 year old girl?
Utter shit. The "lolsorandumb xD" villain fad needs to die.
>>64376952
It's confirmed coming out January 2017
Good Bits:
> Why do you have to be alone?
> switching between period and modern
> the sparse humor
bad bits
> Mystery was pure feminist shit
> Why did they repeat shit from Five Orange Pips? LAAAAAZY
> Watson's wife. jesus fucking christ.
> the Moriarty actor. fucking hack
>people hating on Andrew Scott
Just rub one out if he makes you horny, no-one will know.
TALENTLESS HACK
This was one of the worst pieces of TV I have ever had the misfortune of being forced to sit through in my life. Everything about this episode was terrible on more levels than I can count. If I ever saw Steven Moffat in public, I'm not sure I could restrain myself from punching his lights out for being such a talentless, self-indulgent pandering piece of shit.
>>64376573
It's always pandered m8. Sherlock is at its essence, tumblrcore.
>>64377831
ITS A FIGHT WE HAVE TO LOSE
>>64377831
>If I ever saw Steven Moffat in public, I'm not sure I could restrain myself from punching his lights out for being such a talentless, self-indulgent pandering piece of shit.
I think you should watch some Doctor Who and you will seek him out yourself.
I'm not one to complain about this shit but
>feminist murder squad
>watson's wife being a hacker on steroids
I mean what the shit
>>64377550
Fuck off back to tumblr and write some more slash fiction.
Moriarty's scene honestly just felt cringeworthy, and pretty much fucked the entire tone of the episode from then on.
Would've liked to have the entire 1800s case without interruption, then maybe leave the end for reconnecting to modern bullshit.
It got to the point with the virus in the data analogy that it became obvious what was going on, and it felt like Moffat and Gatiss were just audibly tossing themselves off over how smart they are.
>>64377905
>>64377894
>>64377884
>>64377831
>>64377617
>>64377081
>>64376496
The stormfag virgins have arrived
>>64377831
>forced
I'd like to hear
>>64377894
I've only ever seen snippets at a time, but there was this one episode with a lesbian lizard lady my family were watching which I completely sperged out at before leaving the room.
>>64376543
What the fuck are you on? HoB and Season 1 episode 2 were the absolute WORST and most boring episodes.
Christ what a fucking terrible episode.
I think the biggest problem with the show is that Sherlock is a Mary Sue. Not even maymaying.
I think even the original character of Holmes was kinda shitty. Eliezer Yudkowsky put it best IMO:
>But when you look at what Sherlock Holmes does - you can’t go out and do it at home. Sherlock Holmes is not really operating by any sort of reproducible method. He is operating by magically finding the right clues and carrying out magically correct complicated chains of deduction.
>>64377982
And? Cry more.
>>64378008
>Season 1 episode 2
Yeah, the show's never been duller than that imo.
>>64378033
Yeah the fucking mind palace shit and his intense autism and his ugly ass face are unbearable. He's part of this image that the media is trying to push of smart people all being hyper intelligent robots that are extremely autistic
>>64377987
Girlfriend's family are big beeb fans, can't really voice my disgust without looking like an uppity twat. But I've sat through hours of Downton, Sherlock and countless other dreadful period dramas.
>>64378033
I remember reading Sherlock Holmes, and he was mostly a non-character. Just a tool to explain the plot.
Until this day I don't understand why he is so popular.
>>64378103
You sound like a cuck
>>64378003
It's not the worst excess, really.
>>64378033
People love their pulp. The public has always been comprised Mostly of plebians.
>>64378033
>reproducible method
>rational reasoning and deduction
>pure logic
If he means reproducible in the sense of not being empirically reproducible, then he's retarded.
If he means not being reproducible in the sense that no one can reproduce the chains of logic, I think that's kind of the point of a investigative genius (you're not supposed to understand). Some shows play on this aspect really well, like Death Note, but no one is complaining that L Lawliet is op. But, also it's annoying that he says reproducible because he's also explaining his reasoning all the time.
>>64377831
This is the only answer.
If people liked it that's fine, there is a charm to Sherlock that I think overrides a lot of the more niggling elements of the show for some people, but unfortunately I'm just not one of those people.
I personally thought the episode was the worst in the series, worse than Season 3 and its "you're punished for about 4 minutes for murder, Sherlock" bullshit.
The bit right at the end with 19th century Holmes and Watson discussing the future wasn't too bad, though. The dialogue in that particular scene was sort of like neo-Arthur Conan Doyle, which leads me to believe Moffat and Gatiss had nothing to do with it cause neither of them can write dialogue which makes a human being sound like a human being 85% of the time.
>Mary's taking me home, wouldn't want the bull getting impatient
What did John mean by this?
>>64378203
I'm actually complaining that L is incompetent and Light is a clairvoyant.
Being genius doesn't mean you can't explain what's going on. It means you are better at devising conclusions, but you can still show your work.
>>64378324
The whole episode is literally John prepping the bull
>>64378325
There'd be a lot of exposition to do that anon.
I understand you also didn't like Dr. House?
>>64378371
I think Gregory House is an amusing fellow, but the show spends way too much time on solving puzzles I can't even being to comprehend without years of training, yes.
>No Victorian Irene
Why
>>64378293
Season 3 was the best season. Are you insane?
>>64378429
You just don't like the genre and the characters who necessarily partake in that genre, unless you can give me an example where in this genre things don't happen the way you don't like them to.
>>64378470
>swn pulverise you
>>64378203
EY's own characters have a tendency of talking you through their thinking and surprisingly enough they look even more intelligent for it.
>>64378470
Something about her made my dick diamonds
>>64378502
>EY
?
>>64378515
She's very sexy. And her angular face and icy eyes are perfect for the role.
>>64378293
As far as I'm concerned the ITV series is the only one I can associate with a 19th Century Holmes now. Jeremy Brett simply *was* the character in my mind.
>>64378371
Actually, IIRC, House does usually talk about why he made this or that diagnostic decision. Unlike Holmes, you actually get a feeling that if you studied certain things and were intelligent enough, you'd be able to reproduce what he does to some degree.
>>64378545
Eliezer Yudkowsky breh. The dude I mentioned in my previous post.
>>64378499
To be honest, I don't quite understand what to like. I'm usually able to tell "If you are into some things, you'll like it, even though I'm not" but I don't understand what kind of viewer without medical training could appreciate medical part of House.
There's a thing called fair play. Most detective stories strive to it to let reader compete with characters in crime solving. It usually focus on things like motive, something that any person could comprehend.
>>64378502
Except it's often shitty flawed logic that only works by plot fiat and he can't write a character I don't want to punch in the face to save his life
>>64378600
>studied certain things and were intelligent enough
And you don't get that sense with Sherlock? you think what he does is just meme magic? Maybe his strong logical reasoning is innate, but I'm sure if you studied a very logic-orientated discipline like math, physics or philosophy (maybe even become a chess grandmaster) you'd probably be able to do what he does. Hell moriarty is a math professor.
>House does usually talk about why he made this or that diagnostic decision.
I don't recall Sherlock not doing the same. He jumps in a few places, but that's expected, and House does the same.
> Most detective stories strive to it to let reader compete with characters in crime solving.
Yeah but you couldn't do this in House, most of the time I had no idea what they were talking about, but I still enjoyed the show.
>>64378698
Eh, to each his own. I agree that his writing is not the strongest, but I think he's good at writing intelligent characters.
>>64378103
Downton is way, way better than Sherlock.
>>64378546
I want to tongue her ass
>>64378742
Nah, it's actually a lot more vague with Holmes. There's no specific area he specialises in, he doesn't even name the specific logical methods he uses. His whole character is built of tidbits of knowledge and skill that only work to serve the plot.
Another thing is that House tends to fuck up almost every episode, while Holmes almost never does, but that's a different topic.
>>64378833
Logic as a discipline is very broad, and in a sense, vague. It isn't something you can rote memorize like medicine or law. He uses deductive reasoning, and that's it, which makes sense, because that's a vital tool you need to be a strong investigator. Logical ability is like fluid intelligence, not the crystallized intelligence you're trying to express in the "reproducible" word. Sherlock fucks up too, and House was right most of the time. Both solve the cases in the end, the majority of the time. But both definitely experience lapses in judgement.
>why don't you ever write about me in your stories, sir?
Because you're my fucking help, you backtalking little trollop, do you wanna be out of a job? I love how an upper class Victorian doctor not writing about his fucking maid in his highly romanticized stories means there's some kind of sexist injustice going on, there.
>Try to pander to women
>Only make them angrier
Kek
>>64378925
>He uses deductive reasoning
He semi-famously doesn't, actually. He almost never literally eliminates the impossible; he posits hypotheses formed from best-guess interpretations of the available data - ie, he draws inferences to the best explanation aka abductive reasoning.
>>64379017
Especially with him treating her like shit, it was very much out of character.
>>64379058
Someone needs to replace this with Moffat's face and a collage of angry tweets and tumblrites in the background.
>>64379058
Why did tumblrites get angry over a tumblr tier episode?
>>64379106
>he draws inferences to the best explanation aka abductive reasoning.
Isn't this the whole point of the discussion? is that he doesn't explain his own internal deductive reasoning and that what comes out for the audience is apparently abductive reasoning, which is basically conclusion-seeking and why you're getting slightly irritated at his character?
His deductive reasoning serves his abductive reasoning, which you're getting annoyed at because you're not getting inside his head.
>>64379111
And then she some how magically turns up in the Purple KKK at the end. I know it was supposed to be a drug induced dream, but that doesn't excuse shitty writing and pandering.
>>64379254
>Isn't this the whole point of the discussion?
Sorry, I should have mentioned I'm not the other guy.
And I mean even his reasoning as he explains in the original stories is abductive, not deductive, on the whole.
>>64379058
are they really getting angry? can you cap?
i guess there were no PoC hispanic genderqueer disabled heroes but still
>>64379212
>>64379342
I saw some posted here last night. They're annoyed that he basically equated the suffragettes to violent terrorists.
>>64379111
He should have just looked her in the eyes, smiled and said "you're my maid. I don't write about my doorman, either. Or the man who cuts meat for me at the butchers."
It's such a silly notion. The KKK ending implies in some really roundabout way that not writing about every female character in his life means he's an aberrant sexist, when in reality it's probably because writing her in would be needless, cause she's the woman who does his laundry. Why would readers who allegedly lined up outside when the real-life Strand magazine was first released in 1891 care about the dude's maid?
>>64379342
They also got angry because of the "fat-shaming" with Mycroft.
>>64376299
It's the twins theory.
He had a twin in the books too. Sorta.
The books are very annoyingly nonspecific.
Doyle very famously grew tired of writing Sherlock Holmes stories, and towards the end of his tenure as writer, he began to stop giving fucks entirely, and started writing stories that made no sense, and threw stuff into them like HE WAS A TWIN ALL ALONG.
He even killed Sherlock himself, only to have him reappear in the very next story as if nothing had happened, and no explanation was given for how he survived, something the BBC Sherlock riffs on in The Empty Hearse.
Officially, the answers for "How did Sherlock survive?" is "Because he does, shut up and stop asking"
And "How did Moriarty survive" is "He has a twin who is also the real Moriarty, shut up and stop asking"
>>64376682
>Also Mary basically solves the case alone, and is shown to be smarter and more resourceful with just a cellphone than fucking Mycroft who is supposed to be the smartest by far.That was in a dream sequence
>>64375603
It's a terrible show made to make stupid people think they are clever.
>>64380292
The fact that Sherlock dreams that she's cucking him makes it even more pants-on-head retarded.
>>64380341
>She's smart to the point of intentional plot convenience
>Cucked
You have weird definitions.
>>64380383
Holmes is a self-centred sexist dick and that's the way it's always been, in Doyle's novels and the Beeb adaptation. Him dreaming of Mrs Stronk E Wimmin saving the day is beyond moronic.
>>64380314
I hate how people quote this post like it's insightful, it's silly logic that can be applied to anything.
>>64380471
Nah.
>>64376543
That's not Irene adler episode
>>64380461
We know he has a high opinion of Mrs. Watson in general in the show, and we know he'll take any chance he can get to stab at Mycroft.
>>64378470
Pls no
I don't want my waifu sullied by being in this shit tumblr episode
>>64380502
goat television, or it would be if it had just shown her breasts and bum
A slight crooked smile played upon the famouse detective’s lips – even after all these years, he still had a flair for the dramatic, and relished the chance to show off his talents. “Elementary, my dear chap. First, the angle on your trousers’ pleats is quite high, and appears to have been adjusted from a sitting position, probably while cross legged. A precarious position – for most men. This tells me that your dick is incredibly small, and that youve probably never had sex. From the callous on your thumb and forefinger, we can deduce that you jack off to hentea manga every night, and that you occasionally do it wrong and accidentally hurt your small dick. Here, we can extrapolate to how retarded you must be. Finally, from your gayness I can deduce how much of ahomo you are.” The detective paused, stood back, and smiled rakishly, but not unkindly. His ever-present confidante spoke up: “No matter how many times I see you do it, Holmes, it still amazes me. Extraordinary.”
>>64379212
>Moffat tries to pander to tumblr
>includes a scene where Sherlock mansplains feminism to a group of murderous feminists dressed as the KKK
The absolute madman
I'm at this point in the episode and I'm not sure if I should continue.
I was under the impression that this was going to be their attempt at making a classic Sherlock Holmes serial, not some pandering tumblr horseshit.
>>64380648
Why does she look so much hotter as a man?
>>64380648
it only gets worse
>>64380648
It's too late now, anon.
It was always too late
>>64380506
A high enough opinion that he thinks she can hack into the MI5 network and locate one file among billions remotely from her phone in seconds?
>>64380648
>Not expecting the BBC to shove as much of that shit in all their shows as possible
Just be glad Sherlock isn't played by a brown Muslim.
Yet.
I rolled my eyes at the feminism, but it could have been really good. If they had played it so the women were actually non-entities and the audience just thinks its because its a period piece, they could have done a good reveal of it being a woman, like the cab drivers are everywhere first episode
>>64378470
We got to see her girly bits in a tv show and it was nice
>>64380648
lol Icanjust see the ball rooms in War and Peace now..
Beautiful Russian girls, white dudes and in the back of the room some fucking nigger or muslim for absolutely no reason but quotas.
>>64380946
Sherlock's long melodramatic speach about the women and mycroft saying "its a war we need to lose because were wrong" I wanted to stab my eyes out
Why can't feminism be portrayed without it being pandered to the lowest common denominator feminist. Its just hamfisted shit in this episode.
When Watson tells his wife that she'll need to cook dinner later or when lestrad asks what side of women's right to vote, that felt appropriate for the show and the time period. All subtlety is thrown out the window by the end tho.
I don't even have a point I'm just getting heated about this schlock.
>>64381266
I say it doesn't annoy me, but I just find it so fucking jarring in a straight drama when some black guy rolls up. You don't get women playing male roles, I understand I'm supposed to suspend disbelief and they are good actors who do it, but it tales me out of the drama. On stage it's fine because they're less of a sense of reality, but in film everything seems real, so anything that isn't is clearer
>>64381458
Yeah, I don't think it respected the audiences intelligence enough in that regard
>>64381555
It fucking annoys me cuz in the books there aren't any "People of color" it's fucking upper class Russian society.
yet they'll put them there which is some for of historical revisionism, and years to come people will go "oh that's normal, it's the Russian princesses and tyrone on the left"
Why didn't they just say Sherlock was having a lucid dream instead of using a memory technique to plant himself into a Victorian setting?
>>64381763
It's never lucid dream
>>64380269
>He even killed Sherlock himself, only to have him reappear in the very next story as if nothing had happened, and no explanation was given for how he survived
I don't remember that story, which one was that?
they already jumped the shark last season by bringing Sherlock back without any explanation, might as well do the same to Moriarty because he's a good character
they won't of course, and they just spent 90 minutes of screentime to prove that he won't come back.
I can't understand how could anyone like this episode, it was pure shit and a collection of pretty much every bad trope
>Episode was completely pointless and meant nothing
bravo moffat
So did Sherlock solve the case?
It was a pretty decent explanation, but once again it just felt like an opportunity to shit on fan theories and speculation by discarding the whole the thing at the end.
>>64382543
Sherlock let the women go because their cause was just.
>>64382587
I mean present day Sherlock and the Abominable Bride case from the past.
>>64378599
>Jeremy Brett simply *was* the character in my mind.
Indeed, the Granada Television series is the definitive Sherlock Holmes and the one by which all others are judged.
>>64382674
>the Abominable Bride case
Sherlock let the women go
>present day
Sherlock realises that Moriarty is dead
>>64381763
Both, he took some drug (did he say cocaine?) and put himself into a kind of trance where he imagined/dreamed he was in the Victorian era.
>>64382907
wouldn't it be opium?
.
>>64382715
Dr. Greg House is my fav Sherlock Holmes
>>64382873
>Sherlock let the women go
He didn't because he wasn't actually there, remember it was based off a real case that Sherlock remembered.
The case was unsolved, I'm wondering if Sherlock's explanation was correct.
>>64382715
Such a shame he had his mental and heart problems, if they had finished all the stories it would be the absolutely definitive series.
>>64378092
>mind palace shit
Yeah, kind of amusing how at one point Mycroft says 'that's not how they work'. At least they kind of know they're stretching it as a fictional device.
>>64382995
>if they had finished all the stories it would be the absolutely definitive series.
“The series ran for 41 episodes as The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes (1984–1985), The Return of Sherlock Holmes (1986–1988), The Case-Book of Sherlock Holmes (1991–1993) and The Memoirs of Sherlock Holmes (1994); 36 ran for 50 minutes, and 5 were feature-length specials.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherlock_Holmes_(1984_TV_series)
How many stories were there even left to do, and which other Sherlock Holmes series was even in the same ballpark?
SHERKEKED
>>64380648
the characters were 19th century versions of themselves, she is a mortician but that was a mans job back in the 19th century so they made her a woman who dresses up as a man instead.
if anything something like that would piss tumblr off to no end
>>64377081
I've never really noticed it in the past, but the performance that dude puts on for Moriarty is actually painful.
I guess I was a bigger fan of the show in its earlier seasons so it didn't bother me as much, but the dude hams it up to an almost Warriors of Virtue degree.
It's very clear they're trying to make him this Joker-esque villain but it doesn't work, the dude just comes off as a weird, prissy homosexual that wants Sherlock's cum.
Honestly, that dude from Mad Men who was in Game of Shadows was far better. He actually seemed like he disliked Holmes rather than wanting to suck his cock.
>>64375603
I was enjoying it when it was just a one-off Victorian special. Instead, they went with all the autistic dream shit and I lost all interest.
>>64385267
>the dude just comes off as a weird, prissy homosexual that wants Sherlock's cum.
perfectly put
>>64385268
When I heard Watson speaking in the more traditionally posh accent I had high hopes. Then they made some kind of quip about the suffragettes and I knew it was over.
>>64378470
>>64378546
>>64378802
her and him >>64377617 were the only reasons I watched the show, also it was visually pleasing, like sherlock's MO.
But also 1000000 times this >>64380314
I loved how they reused the song from Jeremy Brett's Sherlock. It was ok. Honestly, I can't buy Cumberbatch's Sherlock in a victorian setting. They should just stick with the usual.
>>64385692
You liked this show's Moriarty?
>>64385707
I later realized I liked the actor as a person, he was entertaining. I also have never seen any other sherlock other than that downey jr abomination, being the fucking millenial I am
Why couldnt they just go with the andrew scott is an actor hired by the real moriarty as seen in the episode where Sherlock faked his death. If there was no way to hack into the system, then the Richard Brook thing has to be real right?
>>64375603
>Moriarty is sitll dead
Yeah, wake me up when he comes back to life.
>>64382929
It's a tie between Brett and Hugh Laurie for me. Dr house was the first show to make me interested in Sherlock Holmes, and after watching the Granada show I can't picture Sherlock Holmes as someone that isn't Jeremy Brett.
>>64385727
I would go out on a limb and say that the Robert Downey Jr movies are better than Sherlock at this point.
They hyped up action angle they gave it was strange but the characterization of those films actually feels appropriate and not obnoxious. The thing with Sherlock is it's very character driven, you rarely see much outside of the bubble of the main characters. So when you just end up hating most of said characters, coupled with Sherlock himself being a soothsayer wizard that can predict the future, in my personal experience it makes it actively less enjoyable.
Whereas I could kinda get behind the Guy Richie movies. It's not really Holmes, but I believe it's more Holmes than Sherlock is.
>>64383824
There are 4 novels and 56 short stories in the Sherlock cannon. They made 3 novels in a movie. I think they never made A study in Scarlet.
I'm not sure which from the short stories is missed, as I have yet some to read.
Also, the collection is like $10 in amazon. fucking buy it you faggot.
>>64378033
Funfact: Any old stories people bother to remember from the past is most likely the old-timey equivalent of mindless drivel like our modern day capeshit and Young Adult novels.
Reading or watching any old stuff makes me question the quality all the time and trying to mention these things as criticism people either ignore it or excuse it with "it´s old".
That´s why art is completely subjective and people with Top 200 movies lists full of black and white movies are just as bad mentally as plebians that bought Transformers 2 Revenge of the Fallen Blu-Ray collectors ediitons.
>>64385957
I would agree with that.
I felt like in the end it became a bit too pandering to the fanbase.
I mean, the movies have good action, but I just cant like them.
>>64379432
But the suffragettes were violent terrorists. Or does the use of historical fact now carry a sexist bias? (Who are we kidding, of course they'll say it does.)
Was this intentional?
Watching now and I feel like this would be a pretty good play.
Watched it again and it was pretty decent.
>>64385957
I thought they were nice popcorn movies. I wasn't as offended as some people seemed to be by RDJ portrayal, and I've read all the canons.
Though Sherlock Asperger from Cumberbatch kind of annoys me.
>>64378792
Not him but it feels like a jumbled mess now, less like a story they want to tell and more like a soap opera where they make shit up for rating stunts. The whole Bates business should have been over the moment that rapist was killed but no, yet again a "someone got arrested" plot.
The romance between the main lady and that blonde dude was pretty shit but I really couldn´t believe how they just killed him off in a christmas special and then found an even shittier guy for her to fuck. Lost all sense of direction, doesn´t even feel like there is a main character anymore, just a bunch of second-rate idiots barely better than extras.
Here's the much superior soviet Moriarty.
The real hero of Sherlock
>takes Sherlock and Watson to the suffragettes because she's already solved the crime
>takes the piss out of Sherlock because she's one step ahead of him and his smarter brother.
>takes out MI5 security with her iPhone™
>takes Watson home
I'm still kind of baffled by the anti-intellectual slant this episode took. They reeled us in with a mystery only to not have it resolved yet again. They joked about once again not explaining how Sherlock survived his fall while never even attempting to explain it. They reduced Sherlock's brilliant skills of deduction to the incoherent ramblings of a drug addicted narcissist who is afraid of women and just needs to get laid. They played with reality so much that as far as we know none of what we just saw occurred, and the beyond stupid premise of the episode is that OD'ing lets you magically travel to your dreams whenever you want. I suppose that they gave us the suffragette conspiracy answer but there was nothing in the episode that suggested that Sherlock was correct, or that it was even real. They played with reality so much that as far as we know none of what we just saw occurred. I'm really flabbergasted that a show that purports to be about a character whose main hook is his intelligence went so far out of its way to shit on fans that actually thought about the show in a logical manner while they watched it and reduced said beloved protagonist to a hopelessly drug addicted loser who just needs to get laid.
>>64386430
Once more Moffat has proven that women are better than men.
Your move fedora tipping cuck faggots.
>>64385957
I'm not a fan of the Guy Ritchie films because they're filled with too much action and explosions.
That being said, the actual Reichenbach scene is better than anything shown on BBC Sherlock. I feel like Ritchie had a solid group of writers and he knew what he was doing but producers all said it needs more explosions and stuff and he just shrugged and said sure fine.
I enjoyed especially costume and production design. Lighting was also great.
>>64386391
Million times this.
>>64375603
is it that hard to just do a tight closed little victorian episode?
>>64386430
Mary sue
>>64386971
In that case are all women Mary Sue's, because all women would be able to do this while the male characters stand back and gawp.
Prove me wrong.
I love the Guy Ritchie films. The acting, dialogue and art direction are all fantastic. The only thing which lets them down is the ridiculous OTT action (with the exception of the 'talked-through' fight scenes which were really unique and fun). The whole ending segment of Game of Shadows was just brilliant, and I'm excited to see where they go next since Ritchie (or one of the writers?) said they want to do a final one which is much closer to classic Holmes.
>>64386971
not mary sue, no name for that sort of nonsense yet
this is like little John Connor putting Sarah Connor in her place because "dont ever go against a man, sweetie"
>>64387045
>>64387084
I was making a joke about /tv/s hottest meme because the charecter's name is Mary. Chill.
>>64386744
Jokes on you lot for watching muppet's wife fantasies. i bet you muppet's wife has a remote vibrator up his ass and presses it whenever she feels oppressed.
don't believe me? ask the crew and the people he's worked with if he's even taken a shit while on a job. he has to get home and let her take it out before he's allowed to fart or shit.
>>64387084
>"dont ever go against a man, sweetie"
it really feels like that every time, you suddenly feel the presence of the writers all being very nerdy sucking up "im strong, i can handle a heavy stronger woman, you women are great"
>>64386843
Always imagined Holmes to look exactly like that. His voice helps too.
>>64381970
The one Moriarty is first introduced.
>Watching a Moffat show
top cucks
Anyone got a download? I don't have television anymore.
>>64380314
this is missing:
- one of the dead men is Watons' girl and Moriaty didnt noticed because his sexism presumed a girl couldnt be a good cop and also his transphobia made him think all women cant have beards
- the police force enters to arrest Moriaty and they're 40% black, 40% arab, 10% indian, 10% white (70% overall are women, 60% of the men are gay)
>>64376682
>with just a cellphone
Maybe it just had to do with how technology can get anyone anywhere and Mycroft is just typical govna man who would rather be uptight with accessing information? Mary could be a dude and still it would be funny?
It's like you all are waiting for something to piss you off.
>>64376951
>Ledger's Joker
LMAO
>>64386643
>I'm still kind of baffled by the anti-intellectual slant this episode took. They reeled us in with a mystery only to not have it resolved yet again.
We can reasonably infer that his solution is correct, largely on the basis that it's a show about how brilliantly clever he is.
The mind palace stuff is a bit silly, but frankly the Holmesian stuff is innately a bit silly. It's a modern update, so we get autism and mind palaces and whatnot.
It's not like the original stories are these works of high art or something. Popular fictions, slanted towards the popular tastes of the age that produced them.
>>64389765
>It's like you all are waiting for something to piss you off.
You're only just noticing this? Do you watch GoT, and did you participate in /got/ at all? Remember people confidently predicting - no, more like gleefully predicting - that there'd be no Red Wedding? That Arya would never kill anyone?
You can't really call it 'hatewatching', because hatewatching is self-avowed; people will straight up tell you they're hate-watching something. These people will insist they WANT whatever show or franchise to be good... but you can tell they want it to be as shit as possible, in varying ways specific to their worldview. So that guy and his ilk would actually be bitterly disappointed if Sherlock didn't throw out some vague, near-platitudinous endorsement of feminism. He'd have nothing to feign outrage over.
>>64389765
>and still it would be funny
I hope you aren't the kind of person that would find such a terrible 'joke' funny in any kind of context
>>64381458
> she'll need to cook dinner later
> felt appropriate for the show
I get time period, but have you even watched the rest of the episodes?
>>64381572
> audiences intelligence
You agreeing with the other guy is proof of lack of intelligence
>>64378103
Downton is ITV shit.
>>64389937
You know what, I'll agree with you here, it was far from hilarious but that on it's own should piss people off more than Mary's girl brain apparently being smarter than Mycroft (wasn't it in a dream anyway? lol). Besides the fact that the point has been missed by most here entirely.
With what >>64389926 said it makes sense now.
alright what's the best not-sherlock Sherlock Holmes show? I need to get this bad taste out of my mouth.
>>64375603
>it was alright
You fucking what m8? Does that mean you had a good shlick to it before making some gifs for tumblr? It was pure trash and I've generally liked these bbc ones. This made George Lucas look like Terry Malick.
The fucking forced feminism when the character canonically loathes women, the stupid magic bullshit in place of deduction, constantly writing themselves into a corner only to use the old 'it was all a dream!' ass pull, over and over and over and over and over. The fucking women all dressing in hoods and chanting in Latin, what in fucks name was that about? The suffragettes were distinctly divided by class and gentlewomen would not have had a fucking black mass with scullery maids, or at all.
The purest example I have ever seen of an intelligent character being written by a moron, and especially by a queer as was shown by the absurdly forced homoeroticism.
The atmosphere was okay but as it struggled to find an ending like a dog crawling somewhere to die it became clear what a waste of time it was. Fuck it and every fool that allows such garbage to get made.
>>64390268
Anything made before the year 2000 is better than this, any Rathbone, Cushing or Brett one. Or just watch Columbo like I just did and be astonished at the gulf in TV crime writing that now exists.
What shows have actual smart characters written by smart people
>>64389765
>It's like you all are waiting for something to piss you off.
Christ, can you just fuck off to reddit/tumblr already? We DO NOT want you here.
How many fucking times do people need to tell you?
>>64389926
>Do you watch GoT...
Lol, no, I'm not a fucking retard. If you can stomach that shit you must think is TV perfection, no fucking wonder, it's like the difference between eating dogshit then getting some nice cow shit for a change. Fuck off back to reddit you mealy mouthed cunt.
>>64380648
>>64390733
>triggered
What you should be asking is: How many times do I need to ineffectually scream at people before I realise they don't care if I want them here or not?
>>64390733
Talebans go home
>>64386430
I preferred her as a normal character. She was active and provided balance to the sociopaths. Now she's 2D cutout of a spy. It's fucking boring.
>>64390997
Fuck off back to your gender neutral bathroom then and pretend to slash your wrists again you fucking moron.
>>64390997
>triggering intensifies
So, at least one more time, then.
>>64390688
There is no longer any such thing.
>>64380269
>only to have him reappear in the very next story as if nothing had happened
The very next story was years later and he only brought him back to shut fans up.
I don't even know why I watched this, I remember liking this once but I couldn't stand the directing and the constant "look how clever we are nudges" followed by the theme song
>>64384225
This desu. I had no qualms with it.
>>64391099
Assuming he means characters who are notably smart, ie, who are essentially geniuses, depicted in a way that doesn't bastardise or misrepresent intelligence, then there probably never has been such a show. TV is a popular medium, always has been. There's never really been much of an arthouse analogue when it comes to TV. The closest is prestige/dutiful stuff like BBC plays and stuff, so Dennis Potter and that kind of thing.
The subscription era has raised the bar somewhat, but the idea that there's this lost age of supreme quality in popular depictions of genius characters is silly.
At what point did this show went too far up its own ass?
>>64391272
That's what I was asking. Thanks.
>>64391171
The theme song is the only good thing about this shit show
when muslims take over Britain will they ban women from politics and voting again?
there are more tongue in cheek winks and nudges in that one episode than in all of joss whedon's work put together. truly insufferable.
>>64376543
>Hounds of Baskerville best episode
was shit, mate.
also why does a secret hallucinogenic chemical weapons program have its own T-shirts?
>>64380341
>Sherlock dreams that she's cucking him
he would dream that since she stole John from him
>>64391696
desu senpai it gets really annoying when it's the 20th time they play the theme song in an episode, followed by some ultra bizzare camera angle, shots and close ups, signifying that something that we're supposed to get happened
Who the fuck is directing this and what's on their mind
>>64375603
This series would have been OK without absolutely-fucking-stupid "6th sense" abilities and awkward scenes. And where's the fucking Dope addiction? Needs more dope and less spider-sense
>>64376543
definitive power rankings
belgravia
study in pink
his last vow
great game
sign of three
reichenbach
bride
hound
banker
hearse
>>64391927
>i hate fun
>I was imagining as if I was there, how I would have solved it!
>People take this seriously
>People think this is good
>>64390953
Underrated post
>>64391415
Season 1, episode 3
>>64380648
this shit was annoying as fuck and completely unnecessary.
They could easily have turned her into a very stern matron or Florance Nightingale figure.
but that doesn't shove feminism and crossdressing down the throat of the audience.
>>64392057
>6th sense abilities
truly awful
>lestrade is outside the door
>not only can sherlock's supersenses detect that there is someone at the door, he can identify who the fuck it is
Jesus christ
>>64380674
>Why does she look so much hotter as a man?
Fake hair and mustache cover her plainness.
also, ur a gay
>>64391049
>A show marketed as update of Sherlock Holmes into modern times
>Making an episode set in Victorian times
I'm sorry, I just can't make it. I keep turning it off.
>>64392294
Stop being so triggered all the time, tumblrcuck.
>>64375603
Very great, there was a lot of fanservice.
>>64385738
>If there was no way to hack into the system, then the Richard Brook thing has to be real right?
Moriarty just bribed and threatened enough people to create a fake ID.
>>64376768
gandhi line?
>>64375603
it was aight, has me interested in the rest of the season. anyone know if they've announced the other titles?
>>64392616
No, it's not airing till 2017.
>>64378033
>Sherlock is a Mary Sue
He's a fucking drug addict.
>>64391982
Finally, something i can fap to.
Whoever wrote this needs to be fired. This was basically tumblr-fanfic tier in terms of quality. Let's take a look at what we learned throughout the show:
1.) Two women killed their husbands in cold blood. Why? Because one of them was cheating on her. The other? Because he was "a brute". No evidence given, no indications throughout the show that the guy was beating her or anything, but that's all Sherlock needs to hear. Well, ok then, guess they deserved to die! And this is supposed to show how justified feminists were?!?
2.) Ok, let's just assume the men did deserve to die. Why the fuck did they do the elaborate scooby-doo ghost costume to commit the crimes? The first woman kills herself after she kills her husband. So why not just shoot him and then shoot herself? Why make it out to be her ghost? And for the second woman, at least she was trying to take suspicion off herself. But she has a fucking cult of women who are willing to help her. Why not just have one kill her husband while she had an alibi? Because they were in her house the night her husband died setting up the "ghost" - same evidence left behind as if they had just shown up and stabbed him.
3.) Ok, let's ignore 1 and 2 and say that these feminists were doing it for the greater cause - except no where is that shown. They left no message with their victims, no where did the show indicate that either man was a major part of some political machine keeping womens' rights down - by all indications they were random nobodies. This was a female revenge fantasy wrapped poorly in the cloak of "progressiveness" to try and justify them just wanted to kill their husbands.
4.) Why were the feminists basically turned into the British KKK? They even made the direct connection through the dialogue with "American secret societies". Those are the heroes?!?
(cont.)
>>64392707
And it doesn't hinder him. Typical Mary Sue trait.
To be honest, to be a Mary Sue you need to be a character to begin with, and I don't think Sherlock Holmes ever was. He was just a tool to describe wacky crime plots Victorian public apparently loved so much.
>>64392772
5.) Sherlock didn't solve shit. He didn't recognize the laughably bad disguise of the female mortician, and the only reason he showed up at the church was Mycroft giving him the location through Mary. Oh, he's also a drug addict now.
6.) John was turned into a completely over the top jackass just to push the "look how oppressed women are" narrative. This was dumb.
The main defense of this is going to be "well it was just a dream in Sherlock's mind, it doesn't need to make sense!". Fair, but that makes the entire episode worthless then, and an insulting waste of everyone's time if that's all you can say to justify it.
I was hype for it but fed up with the boring moriaty story
What happened to the third brother they mentioned in last season?
>>64392864
exactly. anyway in the books particularly hound of the baskervilles watson is 'the main character'.
>>64392608
Interviewer: What do you think of Western civilisation?
Gandhi: I would be in favour of it.
Dunno if it's real but it's attributed all over.
>>64392696
Are we talking like New Year's 2017 or Christmas 2017?
>>64392956
Christmas.
>>64375603
What the fuck is this? A movie? A serie?
>>64393036
Bollocks to that, that's two fucking years.
>>64392772
>And for the second woman, at least she was trying to take suspicion off herself. But she has a fucking cult of women who are willing to help her.
Did she? It became unclear how much was from history and how much was Sherlock's dream. Another major flaw of the episode. Mrs. Carmichael made no sense as a suspect because she went to get Sherlock's help before the murder, and her motive for doing so wound up being "lol it's just a dream, Sherlock was never there".
>>64386778
How do you get these subs?
>>64392864
Fucking THANK YOU.
>all this triggering
wew lads
>>64392864
>you need to be a character to begin with, and I don't think Sherlock Holmes ever was.
is this bait?
>>64393281
No. A honest opinion.
Admittedly based on ancient memory, so I might be wrong, but this was the impression I got reading Conan Doyle.
So whats the RIGHT way to portray women without pandering and overdoing it?
>>64392090
This is pretty good. I'd move Vow way down and I still like Study in Pink a lot more than any other episode, but this works. There's a massive powergap before and after Bride though, those three episodes are fucking awful.
>>64376573
But what Moffat writes are 'strong, female characters' in the most shallow way possible. Instead of having any kind of flaws and being three-dimensional characters, they're just better than the male characters at absolutely everything.
Also see River Song and Clara Oswald.
>>64393129
That's what you get when your two major stars make it big in Hollywood.
Cumberbatch and Freeman are just showing up every now and then for an easy paycheck, they know they're starring in literal Schlock.
>>64393341
That's a really weird one then, because just because of his personality he's one of the most recognizable characters in fiction, up there with Hannibal Lecter or Ebenezer Scrooge.
>>64380648
I actually thought that this was pretty clever
the part where mary is suddenly smarter than sherlock and mycroft combined or the part where the fucking maid talks shit to her boss and he's sexists for expecting her to DO HER FUCKING JOB wasn't
>>64393350
Portray them as human beings with flaws as well as exceptional qualities, as opposed to beings of only exceptional qualities.
>>64393350
Don't have them at all.
If you absolutely must, write them without focusing on their sex.
If you absolute must depict them in situation where it's important, try not to turn it into a one-sided situation where women have no nice things because men are evil sexists.
>>64393350
just portray them as they actually are: slightly less capable then men
>>64393420
Because of his personality? Really? What is his personality?
He's recognizable for his skill set (Or is he? I challenge you to find many laymen who can adequately describe his method) and his outfit (That he didn't really wear)
>>64393526
What? He's an incredible analytic but cold (except when in an investigation), bordering on Asperger's, eccentric in his way of dealing with people and often a smug asshole.
>>64393706
And if I describe this, will people actually think "Wow, it's Holmes"?
I mean, "Psycho who eats people, have good manners and psychoanalyzes people" and "A bitter jerk who hates Christmas" will get you better results.
Sure, maybe I'm wrong. We could try and conduct some kind of experiment. Like asking people on the street to describe fictional characters.
>>64393375
honestly the show pretty much boils down to
moffat episodes (mostly the great ones. vow was contentious but I argue that it has so many great things going on and certainly is ridiculous that I love it. his other two really can't be denied.)
whithouse - bland writer that can be dressed up and have solid prime time crime drama chops
gatiss - drowns in nostalgia and iconography, his love for the material shines through and he often has a few funny lines but honestly they are more misses than hits. I also do attribute this to him being one of the showrunners so moffat has said he never rewrites him on sherlock or dr who, but moffat rewrites whithouse, which is why I think those episodes are elevated (eg the final sequence of reichenbach was strictly a team effort)
>>64393816
I'm not really sure what your point is here - if you take out the part of being a detective he's not recognizable any more? No shit, but then you need to take out the Christmas and cannibal parts of those other descriptions, too, they're not "personality". Holmes's personality in pretty much everything is pretty distinct, though, saying he's "not a character" is fucking retarded for one of the most recognized characters in literature.
>pretty ok
it was 10/10 nigger
>>64390953
Nice tantrum, faggot.
