What is stopping you from liking this movie? For me it is that Rey is a Mary sue. In particular I just can't get over how Abrams retconned the way the force works. To me it shows a real lack of effort, creativity and foresight. They couldn't think if any other way for Rey to escape her restraints or to get the lightsaber? Why couldn't Finn and Ham release her. Why couldn't Finn give her the lightsaber. Why did they have to make her a master of Jedi mind tricks and force pulling shit without her ever being trained, guided or practiced in the force.
>Ham
I don't listen to opinions of people that don't know how to spell a name.
>>64322395
The dialog was garbage, not prequel bad but still very basic.
>>64322471
The dialogue, especially the comic relief bits and one liners, made me feel like I was watching a marvel movie not star wars. Not surprising considering they were both bought by Disney.
>>64322395
Honestly, I liked the way Abrams handled the force in this one. Seeing new powers and different variations on existing force powers felt like a breath of fresh air. It helped feel like the force was an expansive, endless wealth of power rather than 3 different attacks.
>>64322692
No one's complaining about the powers. People are just complaining that Rey could use any of them 5 minutes after she learned she was force sensitive with absolutely no explanation as to why she didn't need to be trained or guided in the force like every other Jedi ever.
>>64322692
The force powers still the same:telekinesis and telepathy.
But JJ use the force how it should be
>concentrate and belive in the force it will guide your actions.
>That is what rey did in the battle with kylo and most people didn't understand.(They still think that to learn to use the force you need some kind of jedi academy)
>>64322395
I LIKE IT ALRIGHT BUT I CAN'T LOVE IT BECAUSE I KNOW A NEW HOPE IS A SUPERIOR MOVIE AND THIS IS JUST AN INFERIOR CLONE THAT WILL NEVER INSPIRE PEOPLE THE WAY A NEW HOPE DID.
>>64322564
>who's talking?
That part really annoyed me, I agree with you 100%, instantly thought of tony stark, and I hate the kind of humor in the marvel movies. The movie didn't really capture the star wars feeling.
Shit casting, shit acting, shit directing and shit creature designs.
>>64322984
Man if you think that a new hope is an original movie go read the joseph campbell's book and watch some kurosawa film.
>>64323023
>Arguments
>>64322935
So just concentrate and believe? So Rey pulled the lightsaber to her because she concentrated and believed in the force harder than Ren, even though Rey thought the force was a myth the day before?
The movies established it takes training and practice and Abrams retconned that, which is fucking stupid. People think you need to be trained in it because Luke couldn't use the force well until he was trained by yoda.
What's even the point of her meeting Luke then? If all it takes is concentrating and believing why does she bother meeting him? You know that he is going to train her.
/tv/ says it's bad so I have to force myself to dislike it because you guys are literally the only other humans I interact with in my life and I'm afraid of being alone
nothing, i'm not autistic
>>64323154
It's more pottery than that the saber choses rey instead of kylo
she deserves the family heritage
>>64322809
>she didn't need to be trained or guided in the force
I like this angle on the force. I like it to be this special power only a few have, but it's innate and they sort of figure it out themselves in a primal way.
This whole prequel jedi, padawan, temple, no emotion, celibacy, training for life from the prequels (and perhaps EU?) is fucking lame as shit.
It's a story about space wizards going on adventures and wielding energy swords. Don't give me this super rigid, monastic jedi shit.
I was actually quite disappointed that Snoke exists. I would've preferred these two kids, Rey and Kylo, to figure the force out by themselves and be imperfect together.
>>64323154
>Luke couldn't use the force well until he was trained by yoda.
Luke spent like a week with yoda lifting shit from swamps and then he was ready to go. Don't give me this shit.
>>64323210
BASED
A
S
E
D
She's just gonna blitz everyone agian for two more movies.
Hurr I'll just close my eyes and focus on my strong independent vagina and every real issue ever melts away.
Its JJ Abrams......were you actually expecting anything better?
>>64322395
I don't think Rey was a Mary Sue at all.
It's relatively easy to accept that her upbringing by herself on Jakku allowed her to develop skills like:
- Unknown use of the force (all that jumping and shit in the Star Destroyer)
- Decent skills with melee weapons (beating the shit out of those two guys that wanted BB-8)
- Knowledge of Jedi myths and the Force (If she finds out that "it's true... all of it" why wouldn't she just try out a Jedi Mind Trick if she could)
We never see Luke do any of these things because he simply never tried. Do we ever see Luke try a Jedi mind trick right out the gate? I'm sure he would have been able to pull it off after a few tries.
Do we ever see Luke try a force pull in IV? No, but I'm sure he would have been able to do it as well.
Rey is shit
Finn is shit. They should have used Meth Damon
>>64322809
Typical JJ, he's like the Oprah of OP'd protags
>and YOU get a superpower
>and YOU get a superpower
>and YOU get a superpower
>EVERYONE GETS A SUPERPOWER!
The hamfisted learning curve was the worst thing about this movie but not enough to make me hate it. Gonna watch it again anyway.
>>64323425
God no, Meth Damon would have taken me instantly out of the film.
He's just not made for a lead in a film like this... forever doomed for supporting roles.
When VIII comes out, /tv/ and their autistic brother /v/ will then say VII was a great movie.
Calling it.
does episode 7 have poetry like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-DeI3ohVbY&t=2m17s
>only your hatred can destroy me
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RFYoZ7H67A&t=2m50s
>perhaps she will
>luke goes ballistic and uses his anger and hatred
>>64323210
>I was actually quite disappointed that Snoke exists.
In fact, now that I think about, it would've been fucking great without Snoke. If Kylo Ren grew up without any sort of teacher and had to figure things out by himself as the only known force sensitive guy in the galaxy, it would've added a lot more to his flawed and impulsive character. As well as explained why he was in such a position of power already despite those flaws.
None of the characters were memorable. Usually I like imagining characters lives after the movie ends but after Star Wars, I didn't give enough of a shit
>>64322395
It's a mediocre modernized capeshit remake of A New Hope that ignores the fact that the Empire was defeated 30 years prior.
>"What, are you saying that just because they blew up another Death Star the Empire is gone for good!?"
No, just that this movie nullifies anything that happened in the OT by bringing the Empire back except it's more powerful than ever; it's fanfiction bullshit just as bad as any EU crap.
>>64322395
>What is stopping you from liking this movie?
Almost everything good in it I've already seen back in 80s.
Almost everything new is just not good.
The visual spectacle and imagination I've used to associate with Star Wars movies were absent. TFA had good, although not exceptional, action. But poor or recycled visuals, save for the wreckage of war on totally-not-Tatooine.
>>64323251
He trained with obi wan beforehand and i am pretty sure he was sith yoda longer. He also never was really good with it. Sidious would have grilled him if not for the fully trained jedi vader sacrifing himself.
>>64323210
So basically you want Star Wars to become the lowest sort of capeshit?
Fuck off.
>>64323826
I want Star Wars to be a fun and engaging movie and not this boring, bloated sack of lore nerds get to nitpick all day and pretend is real.
>>64323359
You defenders get more lazy by the hour i swear m7
>she was no mary sue
>these completly unrelated things prepared her
>luke could have too if he had just wanted to
>its not like he needs dead obis voice to let him fucking sim probably with the forcr, gets swooshed by vader a whole movie later, who is really getting in his mind and barely survives movie 6 with vader throeing sidious around.
Absolutely no character development, Nazi references that were about as subtle as a kick in the teeth (I actually guffawed when they saluted), feminist/negro propoganda aimed at children, boring lightsabers duels, and forgettable dialogue. It looked good.
>>64323625
Man you really didn't pay attention to the movie though.
>Some years after RotJ republic was restaured
>Years later an organization called first order surges
>They are like hittler trying to take over the power in germany
>>64323933
>I actually guffawed
How many Googles died for your autism fatass?
>>64322395
Rey was a pretty shit character, Finn's turn is pretty unbelievable given what he learn of how the First Order gets its stormtroopers. World building was extremely lacking, should have used the time they wasted with the rolly polly tentacle monsters to do some world building. The OST sucked ass and the only good tracks were recycled from the OT.I still had fun watching it but I can say the same about the prequels... I'm easy to please
>>64322395
There's a lot of things I don't like about TFA.
The characters suck. There's too many of them. The movie takes too long to 'get the party together.' The plot spends too much time having the characters run away from the Empire or fight the Empire to even have them develop.
Huge questions in the plot are raised and then waved off as if they are unimportant. How did that one alien find Luke's Lighstaber? It doesn't matter. How did Poe get back to the Rebels? It doesn't matter. It's such lazy writing.
The movie is bipolar about it's plot. The very first thing we see is the scrolling text which details that Luke is missing and that the Rebels sent their ace pilot to find him. Given that, I assume the plot would be, you know, about finding Luke.
Nope.
Turns out it's just a bunch of uninteresting characters running around and playing grab ass with the Empire for about 1.5 hours before the movie decides, "Uhhh, DEATHSTAR."
I have no fucking clue how you go from such a simple and interesting concept of finding the previous Main Character to -another- Death Star battle, but JJ Abrams found a way.
The final point is the shitty ending. Fuck you, Disney. R2D2 becomes 'Plot Key #102' and just has the last two pieces of the map. And he decides to wake up after the Death Star blows up. Why? SHITTY WRITING -- Errr, I mean THE FORCE.
And does Luke even say a single fucking word in the entire god damn movie? No. We just get Rey staring at him with the most retarded face I've seen in a long time.
>>64322440
I think that was a snide remark regarding Mr. Ford's acting performance in the motion picture, my good man.
>>64323882
>I don't want Star Wars to be Star Wars.
Okay, good, go watch something else.
>>64323883
Oh come on.
Luke was going up against Darth motherfucking Vader who would kick Rey and everyone else's ass.
Luke also had the whole fucking pussy mentality with "I can't blah blah blah... I tried..."
Luke pulled a fucking lightsaber out of the snow with barely any training (he did it at the start of V)
Rey was going up against Kylo Ren who while strong in the force yes, hasn't fought anyone in a lightsaber duel for at least 10-15 years depending on when the massacre took place.
How is her lifestyle not relevant to how she fights in the film. They aren't "completely unrelated".
>>64322395
>mary sue
>marvel formula
>diversity agenda
>a new hope's plot but worse
>uninspired cinematography
>makes the ending of RotJ completely pointless just so they can recycle the plot
It just feels like a movie they cranked out in a year so they can sell merch.
>>64323753
>>64323753
oh right his training with obi-wan
that one day he had with him where he taught him to focus and let the force flow through him,
sounds familiar somehow
seriously though lukes training with obiwan basically consisted of one basic force focusing practice and some random words of wisdom
>>64323210
>This whole prequel jedi, padawan, temple, no emotion, celibacy, training for life from the prequels (and perhaps EU?) is fucking lame as shit.
So student Anakin turning against Obi Wan in E4 is shit to you. Fucking reddit faggots are the worst.
>>64324318
lets not forget kylo was severally injured by that bowcaster, fins lucky hit, and was torn by the death of his father
>>64324456
>and was torn by the death of his father
meme
1.-It straight copy pasted the whole plot of ANH
2.- None of the new characters where captivating like Luke, Han and Leia, hell even Obiwan from the prequels was more likable. Rey is dull, Kylo Ren started strong but ended being a dumb edgy kid like Anakin, Finn is a buffoon and Poe well is Poe
3.- They fucked up the reveal of Luke.
It wasn't as a bad as the prequels but it certainly wasn't good.
Why would Rey risk failure during the attempt to mindtrick the stormtrooper instead of simply using the force to release her restraints?
>>64322395
they had a lot of raw material to work with, probably one of the most lore rich universes and holy shit the force is fucking cool concept fuck you. They had all the money and hype to make one fucking movie that could stand on its own, a star wars relevant to our time that didn't need to draw on the past. It's fucking star wars. Everybody knows star wars. People are guaranteed to go watch star wars.
How about a ragtag team of fundamentalist force users threatening the bloating Republic-run galactic peace? You know, like ISIS vs the west. Ghetto sith lords fervently ruled by passion in an old as fuck religion. Grey jedi type force users who are in the republic army who tread the line between peace and brutality. Defectors and heroes on both sides. They didn't need to bring back old characters, how about solo's great grandkid or something who gets force visions of the past that parallel what's to come? Fun space wizardry with complex characters and something at stake.
Instead we get Luke 2.0 with no flaws running thru every challenge like a linebacker thru paper. We get shit writing, shit pacing, pew pew lasers can't follow the action, lazy as fuck coincidences and a lot of glaring plot devices. No fucking tension or struggle. Boyega played the shit out of Finn but the movie never allowed the character to breathe. Feels like going thru beautiful scenery at 120 mph running away from the sunrise. What the fuck disney. 5 planets blow up and no one gives a shit.
>>64322395
Nothing, because I'm not an autist.
>>64324755
they wanted a "wider" audience that were to young to even know about a new hope
>>64324806
>they wanted a "wider" audience that were to young to even know about a new hope
You mean 10 year olds? Because everyone at this point has watched the original trilogy. I
>>64324318
>Pulls out lightsaber
>Barely any training
>3 years to practice
>Barely any training
>Takes a couple of tries to be able to pull it out.
>This is more impressive than Rey outperforming an albeit wounded Sith, who let me remind you, has no fucking reason to be overwhelmed in Force use by being wounded, as "Luminious beings are we" is the running theme of the Force, and even Sheev brushed off being electrocuted to oblivion when it came to the use of the force
>Somehow, the Sith in training, didn't get any lightsaber training from his master, with likely the stormtroopers who casually whip out a spin-stick the moment they spot a dude with a lightsaber, without hesitation
>Luke is a pussy, because he doubts his ability with the Force.
>This somehow nulifies the fact that he's the reason Princess Leia got rescued, because he stuck to doing what's right, and went out of his way to fight the enemy, while Rey just ran the entire movie
>Luke went up against Vader
>Despite the fact that he had 3 years of practice, and got wrecked the first time, and the second time it came close a few times, this is just as bad as Rey entering the Avatar State and going to town on someone, like she was bred to be the ultimate instrument of war
Your argument does not compute.
>>64324853
>luke taps into his anger
>fucking wrecks vader
the skywalkers are destined to be dark side
>>64324318
>Luke also had the whole fucking pussy mentality
Lel no, Luke simply knew he was facing a power beyond him, like any human being he had doubts but he had to learn to overcome them.
Rey in the other hand did random shit that worked because she was lucky, that's a far as her character development goes.
>>64322395
>Rey is a Mary sue.
You've never had an original thought in your life have you, anon?
>>64323210
It's not just that it violates the preexisting rules established for this universe. It's that it completely sucks any drama from the movie if whenever the main protagonist is in any sort of danger, she instantly learns exactly the skill that she needs to escape. It's boring and stupid.
>>64324318
Luke was just a desert dweller like rey, just that he had parents. He pulls the light sabre after learning how to use the force a little bit by obi wan over the whole freaking first movie. Even then it costs him much strenght. Rey does that without training and what makes it worse AGAINST a well better t4ained force user. Before luke can defeat vader, he trainsnfor three fucking movies and the time in between, he fihts his inner demons with yoda and even then he can disarm vader, but only because the imperator wants him too. If luke fails to win vader over he would have been grilled. As he should have facing against fucking sidious.
while kylo is no sith he is still a former pupil of luke and must have been for years as well as a pupil of snoke, suprise suprise he is a sith.
while i can accept the dueling bullshit because he was injured, which he never should have been being able to catch fucking blastershots, i cannot accept the mind trick and her resisting kylos torture. That does not check out.
>>64322395
ok why I did not like it well lets start off with the intro
we're told that luck had gone missing and that a search for him has uncovered a clue to his where about so I was kinda expecting an epic quest across the galaxy to find the other clues and along the way get chased by the first order who had a load of clues already. but no
it quickly turned into another shit remake of a much loved film seems to be the norm these days
and our heroes forgot about luke and the quest
but fear not R2-D2 wakes up and say I got all pieces of the map and before the movie end we have found luke
lame and boring
too think that JJ Abrams had once siad he never liked Star Trek and look at what he did to that!!!
and now he has his shitty mitts on Star Wars
I was willing to forgive the obvious rehashing of ANH.
I was willing to forgive the dearth of character development.
I was willing to forgive the Mary Sue protagonist.
But the last 5 minutes just broke me. Overcoming the fearsome baddie with 3 seconds of power-up zazen at the edge of a cliff is a steaming turd of stupidity you won’t find in even the worst capeshit.
>>64324366
You miht have forgotten that obi wan manifestates himself as voice and person during and after thenfirdt movie friendo.
>>64322395
Even after all the cuck memes, expecting the worst SJW piece of shit before the movie, I actually liked Finn's character a lot more than Rey,
She was the worst part of the film, though I also agree that the entire premise, and Kylo supposedly wiping out all of Luke's Jedi students kind of kills the ending of ROTJ, which was such a perfect ending. Instead of living happily ever after, Han and Leia lose their son and drift away from eachother, Luke loses everything and becomes a hermit.
Rey seemed to pull so many ridiculous skills and force knowledge out of her ass I thought it might have been intentionally comedic.
I just watched a movie and I came here just to say :FUCK EVERY STAR WARS movie that was made after 1983.
They should just leave the whole thing, neither Disney nor old Lucas were able to do justice to it.
It should probably be the best SF soap along Star Trek, but they just fuck it up sequel after sequel to what it is today: SW:J
I honestly dont even know what I dont like about it,I find it childish and I remember Ewoks in sw6 yet they somehow felt like they are somewhat believable creatures in that jungle-forest and even if they were comic relief and whole family friendly, they didnt ruin the movie.
i dont have some nice and eloquent explanation but old original SW just had sense, all this new crap is not only crap in itself, it actually retroactively ruining whole SW foundation build in the eighties.
They just should let it be, people would watch sw4,5,6 every couple of year but now, original actually lose its appeal and it is not a nice piece of "good ol' US cinema legacy" but just a "must watch" to be able to consume 7 and above...
Also, with 1,2,3, new generations who will watch sw will have distorted wiev of the whole saga.
Some shit you just dont touch.
Fuck, shit, i have billion little reasons to hate 7 but to sum it up, original was Lucas in his prime, doing his favorite story(maybe similar to Jackson and LOTR, unrepeatable...like, they shouldn't make Hobbit, at least not as trilogy and not Jackson, he worked 12 years on LOTR, its his masterpiece and lifework, you cant just copy/paste that with Hobbit, there is no flame, 12 years would make anyone older, bitter and a little lost and out of touch(and not give a fuck anymore that much) from original concept he had in his head=Lucas and 1,2,3 & now this part 7 that is embodiment of everything wrong with this hyper SJW PC hype bullshit.
Fuck, i would be bitter if I were diehard SW fan.
>>64322395
Agree with you 100%
>>64323210
>literally wanting to turn up the deus ex machina to 11
we dragonball z now
>R2-D2 had the map the whole time
rey, MUH DEATH STAR, how ugly adam driver is, leia, maz katana
I still sort of like it I think?
>>64325459
>I'm sorry bb-8, but since Master Luke left R2 has been in plot device mode
>>64325442
>kylo ren and rey will fusion into a trans-jedi to fight darth shitlord snoke and the patriarchy in your lifetime
wew, what a time to be alive.
>>64325459
Activates for no reason after all the deaths happen and just so Hoagland to have what both factions were looking for for several years. As far as I know r2 is a fucking snitch
>>64325517
*ding*
>>64325442
>tfw Luke was away all this time to gather the 8 (not seven) mythical Jedi (not Dragon) Balls, which are said too grant immense power (not wishes) to whoever hold it, helping Rey to turn into a Super Jedi (not Saiyan).
>>64323107
Never said New Hope was original and I realize it drew inspiration from a variety of sources. That's different, though, from taking the script of a film in the series and just changing a few names and things around.
so what was the deal with C3po's red arm?
is he a commie
>>64325517
I like how they kept the map in bb8 the whole time for no apperent reason, while the order knew where it was and themmhaving this knowledge.
>>64325576
He's a Skywalker. Skywalkers lose arms and hands.
>>64322991
but the original trilogy had stupid puns too...
>>64325015
>actually unironically genuinely earnestly defending rey
>Finn.
>The script.
The script feels like it passed through 8 different committees to 'touch it up.' We start off the movie with a stormtrooper taking off his helmet and decide to let the audience realize that they aren't just mindless automatons then our main characters proceed to kill more stormtroopers on screen than in the previous 6 movies combined. How the fuck does that make any thematic sense?
Half the 'homages' to ANH feel like some money person watched an early cut of the film and said, "it's been too long since we saw something from the other movies. Didn't that other one end in a trench run? Why doesn't this one have a trench run? Add one in JJ."
They introduce Finn as an indoctrinated-from-birth soldier who instantly questions everything after watching 1 of many stormtroopers die and then proceeds to talk like he belonged on the set of the avengers. Yes, he's bad a lying, but the rest of his character doesn't make sense when you drop that he's a child soldier and as soon as the mask is off he doesn't at all act like anyone else in the First Order.
Rey and Leia were just fucking vacuums on the screen. Why someone didn't realize we needed more Poe after filming just one of his scenes is inconceivable.
Just fucking disappointed.
>>64325880
>Why someone didn't realize we needed more Poe after filming just one of his scenes is inconceivable
This.
>>64325589
I like the part where they decide to send JUST REY after finishing the map. I mean, it's not like Luke Skywalker is some legendary jedi or has countless old friends. It's not like the Rebellion's goal was to find him or anything. Just send this random chick.
>>64325988
This random chick who:
>Was on the planet where suddenly the First Order found Han and the droid with the piece of the map
>Conveniently "broke out of her cell" in what should be the single most secure space station that the First Order has.
>Defeated the closest thing this generation has to Darth Vader, but let him live, according to her story
>Whose only confirmation to not being a sith spy, is that some Yoda wannabe who hangs out among the scum of the galaxy thinks she is a straight up gal, and the guy who abandoned the Resitance and the Republci to go back to smuggling in his senile old age, thinks she's alright.
>>64323251
>Luke spent like a week with yoda lifting shit from swamps and then he was ready to go.
He wasn't ready to go, he got his ass beat. ? A
>>64323210
Your perspective sucks because an enthralling story is all about conflict and struggle. A character having to work toward mastery makes a story more interesting.
Rey beats Kylo Ren, but she doesn't *earn* her victory, so it feels hollow.
>>64324755
Your ideas are way too complex for the target pleb audience. It would have been a great film and a subpar commercial product. Are you going to sell space-terrorist toys to kids, put them on Pepsi cans? The trick is to slip that kind of commentary into an outwardly plebeian movie.
>>64326176
'The Force'™ let Leia feel that Mary 'Rey' Sue also had 'The Force'™ so she sent her to the hidden Jedi dude.
Why Leia didn't go to talk to Luke about how Han's son killed him? That's an even better question.
You have to understand one thing: For all the shit the prequels get, most of it is from people who didn't watch them when they came out, because they were too young. These are the people who missed out on both the original trilogy AND the prequels.
They copied the hate for the prequels to fit in with the jaded autists who are now in their 40s.
So for those people, it's their first star wars release that they are actively part of, so they HAVE to like it, it's like "shit, I wanna belong to this fandom, because I missed the two previous trains". So they blindly hype it, completely ignore all flaws. They're forcing themselves. And they'll defend this movie to the death. Every reviwer that uses phrases like "the first good star wars movie since 19xx" falls into the same category of youngsters who have no taste.
These people, from a subconscious fear of never really being part of this fandom, are now praising the movie to be the next coming of christ. Everyone who isn't still shitting their diapers and can actually judge the movie objectively will tell you: This one is the worst of the bunch.
Yes, worse than the prequels. It's like a chinese knockoff of star wars, bearing nothing that made the previous 6 movies charming (I say charming and not good, because they were both good at something, but not at the same thing". The only thing this has in common with star wars is the title. It's blatant nostalgia fanwank down to copying most of the plot from ANH, ripping off all major setpieces and shoehorning an "epic phrase" ála "i have a bad feeling about this" in the dialogue every 2-3 minutes.
Do me a favor and watch the prequels when you have the time again, just do it, and try to note how much they relied on recalling the original trilogy. It's not a lot. That's why the prequels, while having a different focus than the OT, succeed as a movie series. This movie does not.
>>64323882
Spotted the redditor.
>>64324456
>>64324491
seriously this meme needs to stop about how emotionally scarred he was. he wasnt scarred at all, he says he doesnt know if he can kill han because its finally turning to the darkside fully and killing a family member, something vader couldnt do. hes freaking out because hes about to prove himself worthy of being Vaders grandson, not because muh daddy.
>>64325219
i fucking hated her. i hated the way she was really cute at the beginning only for her to become neo feminism incarnate. the way she yells at finn to not help her, the way she rolls her eyes at han when he gives her a gun, the way she mindtricks a goddamn trooper with no training. She seems like such an insufferable cunt and like all mary sues it doesnt matter because everyone loves her. Finn loves her, chewie loves her, han wants to give her a job, ren wants to train her, snoke wants to train her. Fuck Rey. Worst fucking character ive seen in star wars and thats saying something.
>>64323154
>The movies established it takes training and practice
No, that was the retcon in the prequels.
In the OT, the Force was about faith, focus, and resolve. Remember Dagobah and the X-Wing. That whole exchange is about strength from belief. Yoda tells Luke
>Do or do not; there is no try
because when you say you will try, it means there is uncertainty. And what does Luke say when Yoda lifts the X-wing, and what is Yoda's response?
>Luke: I don't believe it.
>Yoda: That is why you fail.
Luke had all the necessary knowledge and could have left Dagobah as a full-fledged Jedi Knight, but did not because he could not let go of his fear and uncertainty. That bit in the cave was his Jedi trial, which he failed because he gave in to his fear and anger.
Even if they somehow remedied the Mary Sueness of Rey, it would still be a shitty movie. The storyboarding was just too terrible.
>>64327443
So the whole point of going to dagobah was just to pal around with yoda?
>>64327443
>You will go to the Dagobah system. There you will learn from Yoda, the Jedi Master who instructed me
It's sad how desperate you guys are getting
>>64327580
To learn to control his emotions and cultivate discipline. Most of what we see Yoda teach Luke are things of this nature because Luke had the wrong idea of what it meant to be a Jedi. His training began the moment he crash landed and Yoda appeared as the retarded child of Kermit the Frog and Miss Piggy. It was literally an exercise in patience, with a bit of 'don't judge a book by its cover.'
>>64327722
>To learn to control his emotions and cultivate discipline.
So...training and practice
>>64322395
>What is stopping you from liking this movie?
Nothing, absolutely nothing
>>64327781
Training and practice to control his emotions and cultivate discipline, not training and practice to level up his force push, which is what dickhead >>64323154 is trying to say. Don't try to conflate the two.
>>64325121
but kylo ren wasn't well trained...
he was an emo faggot with daddy-issues.
>>64327228
It was so weird, she didn't even have character faults. Rey was like a paragon of moral virtue on top of everything else.
If she really is Luke's daughter the super jedi prodigy stuff will seem alright in retrospect, but making her a prodigy in literally everything and morally untouchable seems like a bit much.
I can only imagine it'll get to Starkiller levels of ridiculous force feats. I'm half expecting Rey to just force push a star destroyer into the nearest sun in the next film.
SKYWALKERS ARE DESITNED TO GIVE IN TO THEIR ANGER AND HATE
whether they stay that way is another thing
>>64322395
>JeffREY Abrams
>Rey skywalker
>tfw people continue to deny her being a mary sue
>>64328029
Never fucking reply to me again unless you're contributing to the thread
>>64325705
>>64322395
Like it? I love it!
>>64328073
what did you just say you little faggot?
>>64328090
>>64328098
You
Are
Awesome!
>>64328029
Kylo was better trained at the force than Rey was. If Rey just escaped or beat him up with her staff I could understand that. I can't really understand how she suddenly knew how to skillfully use a lightsaber, or overpower him with the force, or be better at telekinesis than he was when he trained under Luke for years.
>>64327973
So Rey can become a Jedi by instantly learning exactly the skill she needs in any situation? Wow so interesting
>>64328073
anyway..
so we've got Kylo Ren, facing Rey....
Kylo has just killed his father, got a blaster wound in his side, and just had a fight with Finn...
Rey is clearly capable of hand-to-hand combat, at least with a quarter-staff or whatever..
she also spends a lot of the fight running.
the unbelievable part for me is that she probably had a nasty concussion.
>>64328151
Never fucking reply to me again unless you're contributing to the thread.
>>64328329
i was memeing, I loved the movie.
>>64328278
she's got a strong heart and kylo ren has spaghetti falling out of his pockets...
>basically Kylo ren wants to fuck his cousin..
>>64322935
Previous movies established that belief and focus would allow you to use the force, even if untrained. However, it meant only that you would have a massive advantage over non-Force users.
Most Force users could do impressive things with the Force, but even so they are not a match for trained Force users. If you were an untrained Force user, you would beat non-force users but trained force users would whip your ass because now you are fighting on the same level and he knows his powers better than you.
That is also why the previous movies showed that untrained Luke or Anakin's manifestation of force powers were in things like piloting or other mundane activities, but that they do not extend to more sophisticated techniques like lifting X-wings out of swamps or Jedi Mind Tricks. Their force abilities when untrained would be raw, unfocused and unreliable.
TFA was inconsistent with that. It is Kung Fu Panda-tier where just believing in yourself makes you a match for more experiences and trained opponents.
I just hated the fact that the hero is a girl, very unrealistic.
>>64322395
>Plot being really similar to new hope
>Rey understanding the force really quickly
>Plot convinces like "Finn crash landing right were Rey is", "Ball droid going straight passed Rey's hideout"
>Diversity in cast, but not in spaceships
>Where is the spaceships outside the bar?
>Where is the survivors of the attack on the bar?
>That small guardians of the galaxy part when they meet Han and gets visited by these clans
>Finn not being eaten straight away by octopus monster like all the others, but instead being taken on a tour of the ship
>>64328428
The problem was that Rey didn't really have any Arc or conflict for her to progress so that she could learn to develop her spirituality with the force and manifest that through her powers. All I got from her is I'm waiting for my family and I know everything about everything.
>>64328428
You don't know the extent of Kylo's training or his overall competence at using the force.
If it's anything like the rest of his "capabilities" I'm going to hazard a guess he is not that skilled and that someone who is naturally very strong in it could match him even without training.
Rey is not a Mary Sue, Kylo Ren is just a fucking doofus.
>>64323160
>i'm not autistic
The story.
They couldve done so much better than going back to square one and shitting on the OT characters arcs, and they dont even bother explaining the new stuff very well, they leave it all very vague just so we keep paying for new stuff later!
All of this makes the fact more apparent that this movie was not made with soul but with maximum profit in mind by a board meeting. Kathleen Kennedy should be shot.
>>64322395
That and the incredibly diverse cast of pilots at the end! Complete with Porkins 2.0 and an Asian woman flying an X-Wing. Smh.
>>64328795
>someone who is naturally very strong in it could match him even without training
But that's the problem. Giving an explanation doesn't change the fact that a character who can instantly learn whatever skill she needs in any situation is a boring character who sucks drama out of any scene she's in
>>64323251
He spent some time in the swamp after his solo work between IV and V, wasn't ready to go, went, got his hand cut off, went back, trained for months more, then was juuuust barely able to beat Vader because Dad didn't want to kill him.
>>64324108
Not him but I am legit guffawing right now
>>64328904
>shitting on the OT characters arcs
how so? they had things going pretty well.
>If this piece breaks its going to flood the compartment with poison gas
>oh shit we need to flood the compartment with poison gas
>storm troopers helmets only filter out smoke not poison gas (thats a pretty fucking huge design flaw)
Never actually uses poison gas attack.
>>64329484
the fuck are you on about?
>>64328795
>You don't know the extent of Kylo's training or his overall competence at using the force.
did we see the same movie, you know the one where ren stops a fucking blaster bolt in mid air while simultaneously freezing the guy that shot it? and pulls the thoughts out of people's heads?
and after all of that you're here saying he's not that skilled and overall not that competent? i suppose you were just watching reys skinny fat ass the whole time were you.
maybe abrams is just a hack?
>>64329594
blaster bolts can't fight back, shithead
he can triumph over inanimate objects and his subordinates and prisoners who can't oppose him anyway? Oh yeah then he must be a real badass.
maybe you're just retarded
>>64329581
>the fuck are you on about?
>Remove everything that has no relevance to the story. If you say in the first chapter that there is a rifle hanging on the wall, in the second or third chapter it absolutely must go off. If it's not going to be fired, it shouldn't be hanging there.
all that foreshadowing about the part of the falcon that rey had to fix otherwise it would flood the compartment with gas, followed by the need to use the gas to kill the first order, and then Finn saying that the storm troopers were vulnerable to the use of the gas.
Thats a lot of bullshit along with the introduction of a needless design flaw in storm trooper armor that goes completely nowhere.
>>64329748
>what the fuck are sequels?
That's like complaining that "there is another" goes nowhere.
>>64329655
>blaster bolts can't fight back, shithead
what the fuck does that have to do with anything you dumb fucking cunt. it's a fast moving energy blast and he stopped it with his mind. and the person shooting it. also rey. and then knocked her out with a thought. these people weren't his prisoners, he made them his prisioners through his ability to use the force. luke thought it was amazing to move a fucking lightsaber. yoda had to stop and concentrate to move an inanimate and motionless object in empire strikes back. ren pulled some lackey (not an inanimate object, which seems to count in your dumb world) off the ground and across the room so he could strangle him to death.
>he can triumph over inanimate objects and his subordinates and prisoners who can't oppose him anyway? Oh yeah then he must be a real badass.
you're forgetting the whole 'freeze people and pull the thoughts out of their heads'. their being his prisoner means fucking nothing. and make rey black out with a thought. and in fact the entire movie, including getting shot by a weapon set up to be a laser bazooka and still keep going.
so after all of that, you're going to say 'maybe he wasn't very good with the force' and continue to defend your position, and you're not retarded?
have you even seen this fucking movie? rey isn't that hot m8, and she runs like a spaz.
>>64329923
I hate Rey you presumptuous fucking cunt.
I just think being able to stop a bullet and read the thoughts of some literally who isn't that an impressive use of the force and doesn't guarantee you will be able to hold your own against someone who actually has any capability to fight back using the force.
If they ever actually showed him beating someone ELSE who could also use the force to establish he wasn't shit at it, I would agree with you.
It's like being one of those faggots who thinks he's good at fighting games but only ever plays against the computer. Then they try against a real person and get rekt.
>>64322395
>Rey is a boring protagonist
>Finn is annoying as constant comic relief
>Women everywhere
![ROTJ v2.0 Workprint.mkv_snapshot_01.43.30_[2015.12.31_19.59.16].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/Wwv1MOR.jpg "ROTJ v2.0 Workprint.mkv_snapshot_01.43.30_[2015.12.31_19.59.16].jpg")
>>64328964
>>64328320
What does this have to do with the OT portrayal of the Force?
>>64328329
Nigga. Rey is a stronk womyn no doubt in that I bet she could take a couple of storm troopers, but Kylo Ren is a force user not a "force sensitive" person they guy is trained you saw him freeze a laser with his bare hands.
Sith lords are supposed to be skilled force users, if this movie was consistent Ren should had choke Rey to death.
>>64330094
>Destroyed Luke's padawans
kk
>>64330359
Luke had to work with two different jedi masters for fucking years to learn how to use the force. Rey could use the force after hearing about it 2 hours ago.
>>64330258
I didn't know Kanye was in Return
How is it that a brand new evil faction managed to spring up, weaponize a planetoid to eat stars and blow up entire solar systems, and the response is to send two squadrons of one-pilot fighters?
Hasn't this universe had enough of this exact trope to send some capital ships and at least make an interesting space battle sequence?
Why is JJ Abrams so shit at demonstrating scale in these disaster sequences? In Star Trek he destroys a planet, and all we really see of it is Spock's family reunion getting ruined. In the 2nd Star Trek, he wipes out half of Neo-San Francisco and nobody even pulls over to look at the destruction. With Star Wars, he blows up like 5 planets (because it's a competition or something), and all we see is one ruined balcony party.
Say what you want about Michael Bay, at least when an explosion is supposed to be important he can make it FEEL important.
>>64325576
buy his comic book to find out!
>>64322395
>What is stopping you from liking this movie?
Disney owns it, I refuse to watch it, I won't even pirate it.
That's really it.
I just don't want a part in corporate derivative shit when I once had an emotional attachment to the shit they're going to be pumping out.
>>64331546
>buy
it's on tpb
>>64328795
Examples of untrained force users:
>unnaturally good reflexes, like Anakin's Podracing, and is the main reason Luke and Anakin are good pilots.
>improbably lucky, always dodging danger at the right time.
>improbably good aim when shooting, eg. firing torpedoes into Death Star
Trained Force Users:
>Choking people
>Shoving or freezing people
>Mind Tricks
>Pulling and lifting objects
the nature of the two are different.
anyone notice how each star wars film has had at least one good thing going for it?
IV: flawless masterpiece of cinema
V: flawless masterpiece of cinema
VI: leia in jabba's bikini
I: darth maul
II: natalie with midriff showing
III: signaled the end of the prequels
However,
Episode 7 doesn't have a sing thing going for it.
poe was a better scene stealer than the original cast desu, and sure u could say he had that perfect thing going ala rey but at least he had limitations
could have added a blurb saying these new troopers get some dose to numb them and finn wasnt getting enough so he becomes humanized and bla blah blah, literally just a 1minute dream scene and he wouldnt feel so out of place for deserting
>>64332141
only the forced meme known as tr-8r
>>64328795
The first three movies did a good job of establishing a scale for Force Powers.
IV: Luke doesn't know shit, but he has some minor superhuman abilities that make him a better pilot and fight blindfolded. Kenobi shows master-level ability to mindfuck people at will.
V: Some training, and Luke gains weak telekinesis and telepathic abilities. Yoda shows master-level telekinesis.
VI: Luke's finished "Idiots guide to being a Jedi". Uses mindfuck to get into Jabba's palace but isn't very good at it and has to fight his way out. Full space-samurai action with telekinesis and telepathy on display.
Force Awakens goes from 0 to Mindfuck powers in a scene and a half. Any kind of effort to explain that would have been better than just trying to slide it by and hope nobody noticed.
I didn't like it because it felt like it was run through the focus group treatment to make it as non-offensive and likable to as many people as possible in the hopes of maximizing profits. The prequels had their problems but they still felt like they were genuine attempts at a specific storytelling vision, while TFA just felt like a cynical attempt to give me a nostalgia rush to get my money. I also didn't like it because it pretty much told Hollywood "Don't listen to the public when they bitch about sequels and reboots. They say they want original ideas but you give them a rehash of something they like and you got them eating out of your hand. come get your easy money."
>>64332141
VII:Han's death or Kylo ren
Pick one
>>64332395
>it felt like it was run through the focus group treatment to make it as non-offensive and likable to as many people as possible
What's the problem?
>>64332141
>Poe Fuckin Dameron
>Kylo Ren Saber Tantrums
>Amazing cinematography
>Sheer scale of the movie alone
Tell that to Kanjaklub Newfag
>>64332404
I can see why Han dying would be a good thing in Ep 7. Ford's acting in this was abysmal.
I cannot remotely conjure any reason why Kylo ren is a good thing. He's an agnsty teen played by Adam Driver.
I can't believe you let JJ brainwash you like that
>>64322395
>“Kylo Ren, I watched the Galactic Empire rise, and then fall. The gullible prattle on about the triumph of truth and justice, of individualism and free will. As if such things were solid and real instead of simple subjective judgments. The historians have it all wrong. It was neither poor strategy nor arrogance that brought down the Empire. You know too well what did.” Ren nodded once. “Sentiment.” “Yes. Such a simple thing. Such a foolish error of judgment. A momentary lapse in an otherwise exemplary life. Had Lord Vader not succumbed to emotion at the crucial moment—had the father killed the son—the Empire would have prevailed. And there would be no threat of Skywalker’s return today.”
thanks for cutting this jeffREY
>>64322395
- Disney owning it.
- Lazy rehash of episode IV
- OT characters lives are fucked
- Shit John Williams OST
- Rey is so perfect and independent that she's boring as fuck.
- Finn using modernist/street language.
- Shit Han Solo send-off.
The more I remember, the more I hate this POS movie.
It would've been an OK movie if they went with an original storyline.
>>64322395
Can she be a mary sue in a universe where the power of pure plot armor is guiding her to her destiny? I dunno.
>>64332404
Han's death was shit.
Poe is the only good thing about Ep VII and he barely got any screentime.
>>64332530
>forgets this is the first in a Trilogy
>probably thinks ESB is a great stand alone movie
>Probably a Prequel apologist
>Hates Rey because she beat a Sith apprentice whilst he was injured
It's a great movie go back to jerking off to the prequels fgt
>>64332469
>Sheer scale
"We already had Death Moon and Death Moon 2, electric boogaloo... what next?"
"Death... Planetoid. Pluto's revenge"
Why wasn't the space battle bigger? Did the run out of money for computer effects, or were they that slavishly intent on ripping off everything about epIV?
>>64332404
>>64332470
>>64332530
>>64332578
Harrison Ford just making sure everybody knew the show was over.
>>64332578
god he was so fine my overies were dripping
>>64332578
But if he had majority of the screentime I shit you not all the people that hate this movie would still hate it purely on the fact that they are all just being different because Starwars is a normies franchise and have only now just realized that.
SW7 is an ok movie
is entretaining but heve flaws
like any other movie
stop bitching about it
>>64332632
Yeah that eats suns and uses the power to blow up entire systems... if you cannot see the technological leep between the Starkiller base and Deathstar 2.0 then you must be a huge mongoloid guess what now the battlefield is even the giant base for the first order destroyed the next movie will most likely focus on the Jedi / Sith aspect of the franchise
>>64332696
>star wars is a normie franchise
well, it is NOW... thanks to senor Abrams
Nothing. The nature of the Force as the collective will of living beings in the galaxy means that there are not coincidences or plot holes. Everything happens because it is the path everything wants.
I missed this guy.
>Poe is the best pilot in the galaxy
That's not this guy.
>>64332761
Complaining about science stuff in a children movie
want something to whine about?
When the base "eat" the entire sun it's density would make it turn into a black hole.And still no one cares
>>64332626
Disney shill pls go.
>>64332693
same want his brownie deep in that dark chocolate:]
What did he mean by this?
>>64332944
wtf is this
>>64332979
did you even see the movie familia
kylo's wrecking some niggers shit who was bout to fuck rey up
>>64330723
You are surprised that different people possess different mindsets that are better suited for different things? And that different life experiences mould and shape our temperents in different ways?
Luke was a sheltered farm boy who suddenly lost his only family, was thrust into a leadership position in a galactic civil war, became number one on the Empire's most wanted list, and pursued by the man who killed his mentor and whom he believed to be his father's murderer. On top of that, Luke wasn't even committed to becoming a Jedi in the first place. He chooses to go with Ben only because his aunt and uncle have been murdered. In Empire, Yoda asks Luke why he wants to be a Jedi. His response: "Well, mostly because of my father, I guess." By the time he reached Dagobah, Luke was mired in cynicism, fear, anger, and self-doubt. Yoda even chastises him for being so cynical and makes a point of citing Luke's failure on it. Overcoming these things is Luke's main struggle throughout the trilogy.
Rey, on the other hand, is optimistic to a fault, choosing to stay on Jakku believing her family will return. She is confidential in herself and her abilities, and rightfully so because she has lived a life that required self-reliance. Her fault is that she was stubborn and once she overcame that (trusting the Force rather than trusting only herself; this is the first hurdle Luke faced and overcame at the Battle of Yavin), she was able to utilize the Force.
You can argue this makes Rey a boring, flat character and you can hate this movie all you want. I'm not here to argue for or against either of those points. However, if you think the depiction of the Force is inconsistent between 4, 5, 6, and 7 (which are the only movies that matter to this discussion because they are the only movies that feature Luke and Rey), then you are either dreadfully stupid, in great denile, or even both.
>>64332626
>Hating on ESB
Your SJWness blinds you.
>>64332944
>>64333022
She was having some sort of crazy force vision (of the past I guess?) not something that actually happened to her, how I took it anyway. I thought it was Kylo turning against the new Jedi order and getting his murder on. Somebody mentions in the movie how Luke's apprentice turned against him so he said fuck it and went into exile, maybe that?
>>64333157
BASED
>>64332944
She is wet for that Solo dick
>>64333157
THATS NOT HOW THE FORCE WORKS
t. han solo
>>64322395
My inescapable good taste.
>>64333282
That's exactly how the force works.
Daily remminder:preequels doesn't exist
>>64333239
Good idea but why have the person Kylo is killing be about to attack Rey then? In the script and official novelization Kylo and Rey are shown to know each-other, somehow. You might be right but it could also be a memory, I'm sure that shits getting cleared up in the next movie
>>64333157
The problem is Rey had almost no exposition not only her but a lot of the new characters did nothing but fight and blow things.
>>64323210
>the idea of great things requiring great effort is lame as shit
Millenials, please go.
>>64333369
daily reminder they do exist and mental gymnastics wont make them non canon
>>64332447
Maybe you like being pandered to in exchange for your money but I don't.
I liked it.. But I also liked Get Hard.
>>64332824
Uses the black hole to transfer the power to the weapon and manually closes it with technology that we can't fathom?
It's pretty much like fanfiction; bringing back old characters, parading them in, the villian is not even a little bit scary, there's no limb dismemberment in the entire movie, and the humour in the movie detracts/is jarring stops me from being fully absorbed in the universe /world.
>>64333157
Finn using the light saber as a weapon contradicts what Ben Kenobi said in episode 4.
Rey being able to use a jedi trick that nobody but Ben Kenobi and Luke know is also a gigantic plot hole
Just to name a few.
>>64333174
Never said I hated it, it is just not a good standalone movie.... it is good because it has the setup of ANH and is an amazing setup for ROTJ but alone it isn't an amazing movie....
>>64333428
>droid, please!
fucking awful. guess finn has access to galaxy star hip hop
>>64333157
but, >>64332255
>>64333513
I saw a version of the film that did not have that line.
Please elaborate on the tone and context of it , please.
>>64333239
As to Kylo protecting her in the vision, maybe that could be Kylo's perception of the event, with her being a placeholder for whoever was actually present? I don't know jack shit about the script or the novelization though. I got the impression that Rey spent her whole life from adolescence on Jakku.
It seems likely that she's going to be Luke's daughter though so she could very likely have known Kylo when they were younger.
>>64333542
Finn convincing Soccerball to cover for him when he lies about knowing where the Rebel base is.
>>64333463
Unless what makes using a light saber viable is the force, no human could possibly have the reflex of a force user making the Light saber shite when up against blasters
>the force is like auto aim
Rey uses it because Kylo Ren because he isn't fully trained on how to use it he probably unlocked her potential with the force....
>>64333562
Fucking meant to reply to >>64333380
>>64333542
>finn and rey are trying to get the falcon working after they escape the ties
>rey wants to know where the resistance is because finn said hes a part of them
>finn implores bb8 to tell rey where the resistance base is
>bb8 says no
>finn gets riled when bb8 does something against him and yells "droid please!"
>>64324145
Hahahahaha, fucking this!
Thanks for the laugh, it's 110% true.
>>64333590
There is no such thing as "unlocking" the force, you need training period. That was established in the prequels and the originals.
Why you people defend this, instead of facing that JJ Abrams did a mistake is beyond me.
>>64332944
>Rey was a student at Skywalker's summer camp
>was present when Ren fucked shit up
>the two had a connection, enough to spare Rey from the slaughter
>Luke mindwipes Rey because "reasons" and leaves her on a Desertworld because it worked so well for him
60/40 she's another Skywalker/Just a normie Ren liked
>>64325219
>Even after all the cuck memes, expecting the worst SJW piece of shit before the movie, I actually liked Finn's character a lot more than Rey,
I would have loved to have seen more of Finn and Poe crawling across the galaxy and kicking arse on their way to find Luke, but nope, Tatooine 2.0, Mary Sue main character with force powers at level 1...
I mean, Jesus Christ, it took me until level 10 to get a goddamned Lightsaber in KoTOR 2
>>64325659
>pun
It's not a pun, it's an awkward humor kind of thing. Something the OT didn't do. You introduce you're intimidating main villain, who is threatening someone's life, and they come out with a dumb quip. It's marvel tier crap. Can you imagine if Luke looked at Vader smugly on cloud city and quipped "That all you got plastic head?" Or some shit.
>>64333734
>Finn
>No lightsaber
>Doesn't want to fight First Order
>Only came back for the girl, she goes and gets religion
He had potential, but what does he do now? Weld a sidecar to Poe's Xwing and do space drivebys?
>>64333826
Poe=Han Solo 2.0
Finn=Chewbacca 2.0
POETRY
O
E
T
R
Y
>>64333463
>Finn using the light saber as a weapon contradicts what I made up for my fanfiction
Fixed that for you
> muh plot hole
You don't know what a plot hole is. Something is a plothole when it inexplicably runs contrary to the plot. When something is unexplained, that alone does not make it a plothole. Perhaps your intellectual (dis)abilities or particular placement on the spectrum compell you to have full explanations for every little thing, but the very appeal of the Force to the audience is that it is mysterious. This holds true for much of original trilogy where things were left vague: What were the clone wars? How was Vader seduced? Would Obi-Wan have beaten Vader if he didnt allow himself to die? How did Yoda end up on Dagobah? Boba Fett? Boba Fett!? Where?
>>64333826
he sits in a coma for an undisclosed period of time while Poe is pic related
>>64322395
Oh fuck off. Rey’s power perfectly fits into the Star Wars universe. It doesn’t fit into our universe, because our universe isn’t used to seeing powerful women. But that’s our problem, not hers.
>>64334030
i hope no one takes this bait
I enjoyed the movie, but rey is definitely a giga mary sue. The rest of the trilogy will probably just be the same.
>>64333989
>Lightsabers
Totally correct, nothing ever says normies can't use them, just can't fight blindfolded and deflect lasers
>Handwaving Mind Trick
That's pretty well established to be a trick that requires training. It's the first use of the Force we see, and it's the last one Luke learns to do.
>>64327635
Yes exactly, you need guidance, dickhead.
Pulling the force out of your fucking arse makes no sense at all.
>>64333989
>Finn using the light saber as a weapon contradicts what I made up for my fanfiction
>Your father's light saber. This is the weapon of a Jedi Knight. Not as clumsy or random as a blaster; an elegant weapon for a more civilized age. For over a thousand generations, the Jedi Knights were the guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic. Before the dark times... before the Empire.
>You don't know what a plot hole is
>In fiction, a plot hole or plothole is a logical inconsistency within a story.
May the force be with you because you just got told faggot.
>>64322395
A soul-crushing lack of creativity in set, costume and character design.
Also, a scarcity of original music.
Even TPM had a couple of memorable scores.
>>64334168
kek
>>64322395
>Does Maleficent fly?
>Sleeping Beauty: Not that we recall.
>Maleficent: Like Superman—and the first third of the movie is her origin story.
rey vs luke in a nutshell
TFA has as much to do with Star Wars as Maleficent has to do with Sleeping Beauty.
The 25 million paycheck for Harrison was worth it's weight in nostalgia.
That nostalgia is so powerful it can prevent you from realising that TFA is just a Disney story taking place in the Star Wars universe.
>>64334357
It broke my heart watching seventy-something Harrison Ford amble away from a CGI Cthulhu, back bent and shoulders slouched.
>>64334528
It'll be worse in Blade Runner 2
>>64334168
> Your father's light saber. This is the weapon of a Jedi Knight. Not as clumsy or random as a blaster; an elegant weapon for a more civilized age. For over a thousand generations, the Jedi Knights were the guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic. Before the dark times... before the Empire.
The katana is the weapon of a samurai, but I know you still have one on your wall and swing it around while wearing your black trenchcoat
> plothole
Great, you copied and pasted a definition, but you still have not demonstrated you understand the term's meaning
>implying any of this politique shit is relevant to one's enjoyment
The one thing you can always tell in a movie is whether or not the writers, cast and crew had a good time making it.
The little touches, the fun little shit that finds it's way in after someone makes a joke on lunch break.
This isn't one of those movies. Very few are, these days. It was a paycheck.
And so, it was boring. No character development, no ambiance, no style or flair. Just an inoffensive, whittled down remake of the original trilogy with a socially correct cast.
Freedom from tyranny of The State, sure. No one ever talks about the tyranny of The People, though.
>>64333705
She was left on desert world 14 years ago slaughter happened 5ish years ago
>>64334993
Force suggestion is pretty well established as an advanced technique. It's the first power we see in the original movies, and it's the last one Luke learns.
Rey performs it without prompt, without any reason to even try such a thing. She's never seen anybody do it, she's never told that it can be done, but because the writers need her to escape on her own
>(because she's a strong independent space woman who don't need no training)
she does a thing that the audience knows about and feels clever for remembering, completely forgetting that it's a cinematic non-sequitur.
>>64335172
They avoid the details of who left her and why she's waiting completely, while other characters suggest it probably wasn't worth it.
It's either irrelevant or left unexplored because they're going to address it much more in the next movie. Either way, they needed to bait the hook better, rather than just hang it out and leave it hanging so they can go back to it later with some Shyamalan twist bullshit.
>>64334993
>My poor interpretation of the term is fact
Oh anon.
>The katana is the weapon of a samurai, but I know you still have one on your wall and swing it around while wearing your black trenchcoat
You wouldn't be able to use it in a serious fight. That's the point.
>>64335236
Feels like we've been trying to explain this to the same anon, in different threads.
>>64335172
Where do they say that?
I don't think it's possible Rey could have had any training from Luke considering she looks 4 when she got dropped off on Jaccu
>For me it is that Rey is a Mary sue.
I liked the movie but this is the part that annoyed me a lot. I wish they made her a little bit more believable and not " I can do that, and that and that and that". And she should have never won against Kylo.
>>64335473
not in the movie, which is the weakest part of this theory. but basically the author of the visual dictionary said it in a tweet
>>64335236
>Force suggestion is pretty well established as an advanced technique.
Fanfiction.net pls go
>and it's the last one Luke learns.
No reason whatsoever to believe this
>never told it can be done
No reason to believe this, either. Non-force users have made mention of it and they do so derrisively. They treat it like its petty bullshit that only idiots fall for. Jabba mocks Luke for even trying and scolds Bib Fortuna for getting tricked. Even Qui-Gonn, a jedi master, couldnt make it work on Watto. People assume this is because its a high-level skill, but we must be careful to not mix up high-level with difficult. Digging a pit with a spoon is difficult, but not high level. Using a excavator requires more skill, but gets that pit dug with much more ease.
>>64335360
Obi-Wan says nothing to support that. Older script and novel have Obi-Wan saying lightsabers were commonly used by everyone in the past.
And I'm still waiting for you to explain how Rey's usage of the Force is plothole.
>>64335707
Points one and two are pretty fucking explicit, it's the tool the story uses to show the audience that Luke has changed from a kid with a sword to an actual Jedi.
Point three, Rey's entire exposure to The Force as we see in the movie is
>Han tells her it's real
>Ren uses it to attack her
Nowhere in there does she experience anything that should suggest she can mindfuck the guard to just do what she says. That's a plothole on it's own, without getting into whether it's believable or not that she's immediately capable when every other use is by a very experienced practitioner.
>>64335952
No, kid. And I mean that in the literal sense: if you think the essence of jedi knighthood in the OT is leveling your Force powers and not about calmness, serenity, resolve, and faith, you are a prequel era kid.
>>64335707
The fact obi wan uses it, yet anakin doesn't and Luke doesn't even try until RotJ suggests it isn't something you just pick up
>>64336077
Exactly why telekinesis is the first thing Luke is shown to do. It's basic and unsubtle, Vader mocks Luke by turning off his saber and just throwing garbage at him to illustrate how little threat he posed.
When Luke has visions, and begins to tap into the more subtle and powerful elements of the force, that's the stuff Yoda tells him he's not prepared for.
We're specifically shown the mind trick early on by Kenobi to illustrate what The Force is capable of in the hands of a master. That's brought full circle in the last film of the trilogy specifically to show Luke's progress, not as some video game progression bullshit. It's fucking storytelling.
>>64336240
The first thing Luke does is trying to feel the training droid through the force.
>>64335795
>Older script and novel
Non-canon
>And I'm still waiting for you to explain how Rey's usage of the Force is plothole.
Already did, read my first post again.
>>64335707
>Fanfiction.net
That's a cheap strawman to be honest.
>>64336337
That's the first thing he tries, but fucks up immediately. It's not for nothing that Luke doesn't touch his saber again until the next movie, where now he's shown to have gained some aptitude. The movies do a very good job of illustrating his growth with this stuff without resorting to a blaster droid or Yoda's swamp training montage.
>>64336126
Anakin clearly has a preference for 'aggressive negotiations,' and Luke never has need or opportunity to try it on camera before Jabba's lair. We dont see either of them wipe their asses. Is that a high level, too.
>>64336702
>but fucks up immediately
5 seconds later he can block using the force. Do you even watched the movie?
>>64336478
Claimimg something is well established is not a substitute for citation. I'm not asking for peer-reviewed publications. You people have had your heads so far up in expanded universe you dont know what is fiction or fiction about fiction.
>>64336430
Link it. Im pretty sure I already adressed it.
>>64336763
>good against remotes, that's one thing
>good against the living, that's something else
han even points this out idiot
>>64336833
He still used the force with training, which is the point of this argument, you fucking idiot.
>>64336723
If by "wiping ass" you meant any new and unusual element of the story, then yes I would expect it to be established in some way before the plot required it's use.
They did THIS EXACT THING when Han handed her a gun. She hadn't had a gun before, so despite everyone else having had guns earlier, they take the time to establish that she now has a gun and knows how to use it. That's what the process of good storytelling looks like, and they managed it just fine in that instance. They just immediately failed at their next opportunity.
>>64323359
what makes her a mary sue is that she is this powerful in the first place, not that she lacks an adequate explanation for her abilities.
>>64336833
While there is truth in what he said, that scene is supposed to set Han up as skeptic. And it doesnt do anyyhing to promote the erroneous claim that telekinesis is the first thing Luke is taught.
>>64336907
I dont even know what you are bitching about. Its like you are being intentionally vague so no one can dispute you because they dont kniw what you are faffing on.
For me its Starkiller Base. It's just dumb. That's all I don't likd
>>64322395
Nothing. I enjoyed it a lot. Sure, Rey is a Mary Sue and there were some plot holes but it was still an enjoyable movie.
Was it a great movie? No. Was it a good movie? Debatable. Was it enjoyable? For me, yes.
I liked it
>>64323210
this is bait children
>>64322395
I would have preferred this:
>Poe ejected in the same seat thing as Finn
>Both work together to recover BB8
>No Finn getting chased
>Skip to N.O. attack
>In MF, Poe pilots, Rey co-pilots
>Rey fixing MF
>Poe in cockpit, Finn fucking up picking the right thing
>Rey gets really annoyed, the right part flies at her, she barely catches it
>Han Solo talking about Force does real
>Rey understands shit now
>no Kanji Club, 3rd parties just start shooting, disable freighter
>Pretty much the same for a while
>Rey gets captured
>Makes more of a noticable effort to resist Kylo
>Fails jedi mind trick
>tries the restraints, they unlock
>sneaks up on, and beats up, Daniel Craig trooper
>TR-8R makes more traitorous comments
>Kylo beats Finn with no question he's toying with him
>Rey gets toyed with too, can't really put up a fight
>Does the meditation thing, can now not get rekt so easily
>Still loses easily
>Fissue separates Ren/Rey just as Ren was about to win
There you have it. Poe gets more screentime, is developed more, Rey gets powered down and there's an explanation for how she can do Force-related stuff, and the final fight reflects the experience gap.
