what does he mean by this?
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what does he mean by this?
>>64237390
clickbait
>>64237390
INTERRACIAL
>>64237390
BIG
>>64237390
Ayyyyyyyy lmao
it means that they are not even sure what will it be about
Overcompensation for making 7 too much like ANH.
So everyone will hate it for the completely opposite reason.
He means that they'll actually explain what the fuck is going on and it won't be just another entire movie of exposition, which will require some measure of an attention span, which will be "weird" for most Millennials.
>>64237390
It means people noticed they copied a script for TFA and now they will try it wihout one.
>>64237485
>This isn't Lucas' vision!
>It's fanfiction
>It doesn't feel like Star Wars
^Future common complaints. Screencap this.
>After the awakening
>It was all a dream!
>>64237390
That they have their foot in the door and can stop appealing to the Facebook audience. I hope.
Evangelion ripoff
>>64237390
Rey a lesbian.
>>64237588
Realistically how many of the characters can they make gay before they lose a significant amount of their audience?
>>64237540
TFA felt like fanfiction, just unoriginal fanfiction
>>64237390
He's preparing us for Episode 8: The First Order Strikes Back
>>64237540
Thats hardly a prediction as those are already current complaints
>>64237597
TRAITOR
>>64237511
>they'll explain what's going on
>it won't be exposition
anon if you're going to rag on millenials at least make your sentence coherent
>>64237390
Empire and still is unlike everything else Star Wars
He's saying it'll be an Empire retread.
>>64237540
I won't. You shit. You fucking shit. You piss. You shit. I won't do what you tell me, I will shitwreck you with piss top ahit fucking shitdick.
>>64237390
Direct your missive towards the Kanjiklub
>>64237565
haha yes Disney were just "setting up" the next movies and will unveil their true artistic vision
>>64237649
As long as it's ambiguous, zero.
>>64237390
Kylo will go Light side in hopes to tap Rey.
>>64237649
it's the Star Wars audience
they can literally make all the characters gay and it won't matter
>>64237390
Hopefully he means it'll depart from ep.7 by having more plot and worldbuilding than your typical Star Wars Battlefront match
>>64237390
he means he's going to have most of his script rejected by Disney and get fired as soon as he submits his first draft.
>>64237390
he means the next Star Wars will be "out there" and "experimental" much like Ant Man was.
>>64237469
GUY
>>64237390
kylo and rey incest
finn and poe GAY
these are confirmed leaks
>>64237597
fuck off
>>64237390
I just want a long space battle scene with capital ship engagements. Imagine the opening scene of Revenge of the Sith, but even more epic.
It's not Atmospheric Wars.
>>64238017
We need some bestiality too.
>>64237449
>implying this isn't already the norm
>>64238085
and leia fucks a dog
>Luke trains Rey, more jedi
>Poe and finn adventures in space
>Kylo completes his training
>Captain asthma returns with vengeance after praying to the spirit of TR-8R
WHO HERE /hyped/
>>64238269
I wanna see some lethal weapon in space shit with Poe and Finn
>>64238017
Surprising, but not so surprising.
>>64238167
don't talk about chewie like that ;_;
>>64237390
>It will some timetravel bullshit that erases the previous trilogies from canon
Calling it now
>>64237390
Cucked by the Vong dong
>>64237390
TFA was a movie made both for the OT fans and to launch a story for a new generation of fans. I'd bet that VIII is going to be a real departure now that new protagonists and antagonists have been established.
>>64237556
>It was all a dream!
Han used to read Word Up magazine.
>>64237981
FOR
>>64237436
A Star Wars movie without another even bigger death star. So weird.
>>64238269
>Poe and finn adventures in space
would watch
>>64238269
>TFW Poe is the expert pilot
>Rey is the all powerful Jedi
>Finn is Leia who's just kind of there
At least this time they're funny.
>>64237390
blaster that shoots lightsabers
>>64239069
Hey reddit!
>>64239113
YOU
>>64239942
That's pretty much what they do now, apparently, how else could Rylo use the force to stop a laser.
>>64237649
One main character, two side characters
>>64237597
TRAITOR
>>64237390
Good. Take some fucking risks. TFA just felt like it was made by a casual Star Wars fan.
JJ claims to be a huge SW fanboy, but TFA felt like Star Wars lite.
>>64237390
>damage control against everyone saying TFA was an unoriginal piece of shit
>yfw every original idea will be scrapped
>instead of a great movie we get a remake of ESB
>>64240055
DESU, as bad a rehashing most of everything from ANH it was the best route to go for the first of the new trilogy.
However, if they start the next movie on a frozen planet I'm going to walk out.
>Kylo Ren has a scar on his face at the end of the movie
>Snoke has a scar on the same side of his face
>both Trevorrow and Johnson have directed movies about time travel
I think either were going to see a bunch of flashbacks or they are going to actually have characters that are time traveling or have time travelled off-screen.
>>64237540
your mother's slimy cunt doesnt feel like star wars but I still fuck it every night. you stupid fuck.
>“These movies will all be so different,” he told The LA Times earlier this month, ["Episode VIII" director] Rian Johnson is a friend of mine — he's going to make some weird thing.
>“If you've seen Rian's work, you know it's not going be like anything that's ever been in Star Wars. “You couldn't have three more different people than J.J., Rian and Colin [Trevorrow, Episode IX director].”
>>64239840
But Finn is clearly Chewbacca.
>>64240202
Chewbacca is Chewbacca
>>64238500
I will honestly be amazed if they can top the Starkiller Base in the canon of contemptible screenwriting ideas, but there's a chance.
>>64237484
The script for VIII is finished. JJ read it, and wished he had stayed on instead of Rian. ReyRey read it, and says, "It's really, really good." Kennedy has read it, and signed off.
Del Toro read it, and he was the one who called it "weird." And he's fucking out there like a young Harry Dean Stanton so if it's weird to him, it's pretty fucking weird.
>Tip: Rey is the First High Priestess of the Reformed Church of the Force.
don't bother capping - it will be on 4plebs.
>>64237390
LEWD
>>64240183
>we realize that TFA has pissed off a lot of people and are already trying to win them back because we love money
>>64240261
lots of lensflares?
time travel alternate universe?
a rehash of ESB?
>>64240213
He is clearly more Leia without love interest in this New Trilogy.
>>64237597
TRAITOR
>>64240261
>Del Toro read it, and he was the one who called it "weird."
he's not directly involved in the production, so that is basically code for "it's shit", not "I, Del Toro, am blown away by these outlandish surreal concepts"
>>64240360
Is that really a bad thing?
>>64240261
I just hope that the fact that Poe was going to die at first in VII makes him unimportant.
It'd be very dissapointing, especially as him, Rey and Finn seem to be sort of the new trio (without necessarily being Luke, Leia and Han clones, as much as the film was almost a copy of IV).
He means it's going to be Rey and Chewie falcon shenanigans for half of the movie
>one nameless rank-and-file solider defecting was enough to destroy the ultra-mega-death star
>And people call Rey a mary-sue
>>64240442
Fugg, I meant doesn't*
>>64237390
Star wars is for weirdos and tryhards, anyone who takes it seriously is mentally retarded
>That leak last week said Episode VIII would significantly alter the lore and Disney even made Episode VII too close to the originals to build enough good will so their real plans wouldn't ge backlash.
PANIC.jpg
>>64240183
Why did they pick three different people for the movies? Wouldn't a single director give it internal coherence at least?
>>64240442
We should have at least Rey and Poe interacting, if only because they feel so disconnected right now (and they seem to have good chemistry behind the scenes).
In the novel they hug after Artoo wakes up and introduce themselves before Rey takes off.
>>64240422
it's not sincere communication. all the media reporting that is done on the sequels will be based on what they currently think the fanbase want to hear, not what they are actually working on. it will work - a lot of people are already rationalizing TFA as "setting up" sequels when it accomplished almost nothing narrative-wise.
Character wise.
>Rey is Luke
>Finn is Han
>Poe is Leia / Wedge.
>Chewie is Chewie.
>Han is Obi-Wan.
>Kylo is Vader
>Hux is Tarkin
>Phasma is Boba Fett
>Unkar is Jabba
>Leia is Mon Mothma
>Luke is Yoda
>Snoke is Palpatine.
>BB-8 is the droids plus the droids themselves.
>>64240477
>one guy who didn't have a name is identified and called traitor by literally everyone
Was he the only black stormtrooper ever and that's why even his boss knows him?
Knowing Disney, It'll probably be weird like how Pirates of the Caribbean 3 was weird. Too many plot threads that never go anywhere, and new characters that exist for no reason, and unnecessary mystical bullshit that is forced and out of place.
>>64237511
>they'll actually explain what the fuck is going on and it won't be just another entire movie of exposition
>>64240623
I'd argue that Poe is more of the Han role but yeah
>>64240553
its to maxmize Disney's control over the movies and prevent them from being credited to a single director in the eyes of the public.
the notion that they care about artistic merit or coherence is obviously absurd at this point.
>>64240576
tell that to kanjiclub
>>64237511
Do you know what exposition is?
>>64240542
>tfw I was actually excited thinking Snoke was a massive giant sized humanoid who would wield a tree trunk sized lightsaber and wondering how such a foe could be defeated
>Then it was revealed it was just a hologram
Too bad Darth Talon won't ever exist, only thing that could save this shit.
>>64240642
Rylo knowing he was the traitor made sense, the rest was stupid.
>>64240676
Poe was originally meant to die in the first film, he's not Han.
>>64240623
>people comparing phasma to boba fett
>kylo to vader
vader killed obiwan in the first movie and was threatening as fuck and kicked lukes ass in the 2nd
kylo threw tantrums and get absolutely wrecked vs Rey
bobas first appearance is him being singled out by vader then out smarting han
Phasma gets put in the trash can
>>64240378
>Lens flares in the script.
>>64240676
Finn and Han are both on the wrong side of law, join the adventure motivated solely by self-interest, entertain the notion of bailing when things get rough, but man the fuck up, come back, and are pivotal to taking down the enemy. Plus they're both often sources of comic relief and appear to be involved in the main romantic pairing of the series.
All Poe has going for him in terms of being Han is being a smartass pilot. But in terms of the plot, he's the loyal member of the Resistance who is captured by the evil Empire, but sends a droid away with pivotal data which kicks off the whole adventure, is held captive and tortured by the evil Sith Lord, and later is rescued by people in Stormtrooper attire and reunites with the Resistance to plan the assault on the enemy weapon. That's Leia.
>>64240696
>the notion that they care about artistic merit or coherence is obviously absurd at this point.
Fair enough, my fault.
>>64237597
Everyone's OBSESSED with this new character!!
>>64240731
Not him, but I'm guessing his role is going to be more important in the next movies. I mean, why would you keep him alive then?
At least I hope so.
Maybe it means it will feel like a film and not an extended advertisement for Disney's Star Wars (TM). VII was a bore.
>>64240764
To be fair, Vader was edgy and raged all the time in ANH (he raises his voice all the time compared to almost never in ESB/ROTJ) and they toned it down so he was more of a le mysterious badass in the sequel onwards
>>64240764
You have autism
Its the equivalent, and that doesn't mean copy/paste the same
>>64240419
Benicio is cast as a new villain, and has read it for his part. Not Guillermo.
>>64240764
They're just incompetent versions of the other villains, just like the Order is a wannabe Galactic Empire and Snoke a giant worst Sheev.
>>64240895
>New villain
fucking why? Kylo, Hux, and Snoke should be the focus, not some throwaway villain
>>64240895
>>64240959
NEW VILLAIN TO SURPASS METAL GEAR
>>64240959
I was just clarifying which Del Toro from above.
Why? I don't know. But if Rey is going to be a Force Saint level Jedi, I suppose the Church of the Force needs a padawan-diddling Priest.
>>64240959
Kylo is far too weak to fight Rey so they will givbe her a new rival
i'm guessing a female sith lord
>>64237390
The clues are everywhere
>Rey presenting the saber to Luke with business end facing him, which is a big no-no
>Darth Emo's pain and the noticable fact that he's not called "Darth anything" like all other sith; it reeks of a "Snape kills Dumbledore" situation
>Lukes retardation of dealing with a problem he helped create by running away instead of smoking a young apprentice gone bad and being done with it
>the apparent presenting of Rey and her unnatural levels and skills as another "chosen one" along the lines of Anakin
It's not hard to see where it's going. It was as subtle as shouting REY'S THE REAL VILLIAN AND DARTH EMO DID ALL HE DID TO GET HIMSELF CLOSE TO TAKE OUT SNOKE WHO WOULD ONLY PRESENT HIMSELF AS A HOLOGRAM AND NOW HE'S GOTTA DEAL WITH REY'S BULLSHIT, AND LUKE WENT TO THE DARK SIDE AS MANY HAVE BEEN SAYING ALL ALONG
>>64240959
Apparently he's a politician who is an enemy to both the Resistance and the First Order and has his own plans for the galaxy.
>>64237390
Now they want the hipster audience too
I would just like to point out that I refreshed the catalog a minute ago and for about eight seconds, the top row had not a single Star
Wars thread.
>>64241330
did you screencap? I literally don't believe you
>>64241112
>too weak
Nah, he'll become a badass by Ep. 9
the transformation will be in ep. 8
>>64241406
he'd have to be badass in ep 8 and beat her in that episode for him to be a meaningful antagonist to overcome in 9. he can't be beaten in 7, not fight in 8 or even tie in 8, and then be beaten again in 9. there'd be no development of the protagonist. which is why i think thats what disney will do
>>64240764
>absolutely wrecked vs Rey
I fail to see how this is even a problem.
A: he was injured
B: he was cocky didn't come at her with lethal intent (I can train you hur dur)
C: unlike Finn, Rey knew how to fight close quarters
D: Rylo has no where near the training Anakin when Anakin fought Dooku, let along in ANH, Snoke never remarks about how its finally time to finish his training.
Why is Rey literally the worst character in the movie? We should be rooting for her, but we have no attachment since she is so good at everything
WHY JJ/KASDAN, WHY FUCK UP THIS BADLY
also why would they hire Kasdan? is best movie was Empire, and that wasn't because of him
>>64237597
TRAITOR
>>64241593
>I fail to see how this is even a problem
because the hero beat the film's villain without progressing from where she was the first scene we saw her. it's not a "plot hole" that she beat him. it's just a shitty plot catering to a strong womyn mary sue
>>64238055
Bitch, they used a star to wage war in The Force Awakens.
Since Ep VIII is a Rian Johnson kino, will JGL appear?
>>64241596
O hai reddit
>>64241112
Rey is the villain. She will kill Luke in episode 8.
>>64237390
just to bait /tv/
>>64241747
how is that reddit you fucking mong
>>64241678
>Rylo is the films Villain.
Snoke was the Villain, Rylo was the henchmen, and an overly emotional, injured, and poorly trained one at that.
>>64241596
>why would they hire Kasdan
thanks to writing both ESB, ROTJ and Raiders of the Lost Ark, he's achieved memetic status among fans. there was no other reason.
it's like asking why they hired Max Von Sydow for a tiny nothing role.
>>64237390
SHEEV CLONES CONFIRMED CANON
>>64237390
It's gonna be even more like Guardians of the Galaxy
>>64241787
But he hasn't made anything good since Empire, which again, isn't even on him
>>64237390
It won't be a remake of the first movie (aka weird)
Ray is Snork's daughter
Finn and Poe are gay
Phasma is a out for revenge
Kylo becomes good
Leia becomes a power mad general and builds her own Death Star
Han is cloned
Snork is an evil clone of Luke
Anakin is a force ghost
Jar Jar is supreme leader of new new republic
>>64240959
>implying those 3 arent the actual throwaway villains
>>64241780
do you need to watch the movie again? kylo is the film's primary antagonist. just because he's a wimpy one doesn't change his role. snoke is a figure in the background. you fanboys never quit do you
>>64237390
>Weird
Are we talking quirky Wes Anderson Weird, or my secret sick and disturbing fetishes Weird?
>>64241646
>>64241352
>>64241330
I would also like to point out that it has been over 7 hours since the last Avafag v TFAg box office thread.
>>64237390
>Rey turns bad after regaining memories through training with Luke
>Kylo trains with Snoke, but ends up going rogue with the other Knights of Ren, but not to the good side
Finn and Poe do shit revolving around first Order until it ties into Rey turning bad
BB-8 is with Poe/Finn
Leia takes a back seat
this is my prediction
It will also be less action-y as it makes the more action filled segments more meaningful
>Star Trek 2 is going to be different and set out its own path
>Does Khan
>Star Trek 3 is going to go back to the basic Star Trek themes
>Fast and the Furious in Space
Always believe their lies.
>>64241956
>Telling you the reasons why Rylo being beaten by Rey makes sense from evidence in the movie
>NOPE NOPE NOPE! REY SHOULDN'T HAVE WON, SHE'S A MARY SUE! NOPE NOPE NOPE
>>64241982
everyone's accepted that the contest is decided in Jim's favor, that's why.
>>64241957
I'd pay to watch a Wes Anderson directed Star Wars movie.
>>64241823
marketing decisions aren't aimed at people who are already highly engaged and paying attention.
>>64237390
Weird in the sense that Ren and Rey are going to end up being relatives, Ren will cut Rey's hand, Finn and Poe will kiss before Poe gets turned into carbonite, and Force Ghost Han Solo will help Luke to train Rey.
>>64237511
>they'll actually explain what the fuck is going on
>won't be just another entire movie of exposition
Are you illiterate or something?
>>64240179
>your mother's slimy cunt doesnt feel like star wars
Well, that hardly seems relevant.
>>64241957
Deleted scenes from Brick weird.
https://vimeo.com/48348608
>>64242144
>Won't be another movie of exposition
well fuck me. Thats what the movie actually lacked
>>64237390
Butt stuff.
>>64240523
HEY EVERYONE, LOOK HOW FUCKING COOL THIS GUY IS. HE DOESN'T LIKE THAT POPULAR THING, AND HE'S NOT AFRAID WHO KNOWS IT.
>>64237597
Traitor
Not making a new thread just for this:
Does anyone have a screenshot or a webm of the scene at the end where the resistance is standing in a group seeing Rey leave in the falcon?
It's got Leia, C3PO, BB8, etc.
I know I've seen it posted here before, but must not have saved it.
>>64240542
>That leak last week said Episode VIII would significantly alter the lore
wot
>>64242271
>HE DOESN'T LIKE THAT POPULAR THING FOR WEIRDOES AND TRYHARDS
ftfy
>>64240764
Boba stood around and was used by other people until he accidentally killed himself uselessly. Stop glorifying shit.
>>64242335
you mean when they were waving and standing on the landing strip?
>>64237390
Star Wars is going to be Reddit
>>64237683
>Not "The First Order Retaliates"
>>64240158
>it was the best route
It felt cheap and uninspired. If by best you mean best for Disney making money then you would agree
>>64237390
Holy shit, Jon Snow comes back from the dead!?!!
>>64237390
it'll be like /pic related only leia will have a new DeathSystem model on her desk when Finn is talking to her.
>>64240261
>protestant jedi
dsgusting
>>64237390
Transsexuals.
Transsexuals everywhere.
Stormtrooper girl? She got a dick bruv
Alien dancer girl? She got a dick bruv
Robot "girl"? She got a astro screwdriver dick bruv.
>>64242062
In our moment of triumph? I think you overestimate their chances.
>>64242397
Yes, that one. I saw the movie again today, and someone I went with said they saw R2D2 still standing there, even though he's in the ship with Rey. I want to see if it was a mistake or a different droid.
>>64240805
>OBSESSED
LOVE THE LINGO!
>>64242457
So literal.
Why does every fucking sith in the EU have maul like black and red war paint?
I'm glad disney reconned all this fucking garbage.
>>64241596
>We should be rooting for her, but we have no attachment since she is so good at everything
I was rooting for her. I felt "attachment" to her as a character, especially when compared to any character from the prequels. So speak for yourself and stop parroting Max Landis complaints. And Kasdan was the screenwriter for the best Star Wars movie and the best Indiana Jones movie. And when all you edgy contrarians stop nitpicking details you'll realize that TFA is the 3rd best Star Wars movie produced.
>>64242496
I was wondering the same thing. Yes there was an r2d2 like astro droid
However it wasn't standing with the main people which I found weird. Then r2d2 showed up so I just assumed the first one is r2d2s gf
>>64242038
Rey is 100% Mary Sue.
Beating Kylo in the end however isn't a good example of her Mary Sueness, Kylo had just been shot by Chewie, a weapon which is hyped for half the movie, he had just killed his father, and was wounded in the shoulder by Finn. The whole fighting he's thumping his chest in reference to the blow.
>>64242584
Oh well. it's probably another astro mech, because there were others in the movie, and only bb8 is a ball.
>>64242038
its not a matter of is it possible or not, its what makes more sense in a storytelling perspective and having a relatable protagonist who struggles to overcome their obstacles like a real human with flaws would
>>64242560
Easy way to portray evil to the audience and to others in the universe
I just think of it like their team colors. Like how jedi always wear brown and beige and shit
>>64242610
It does make sense, you're a literal fucking retard if you think otherwise.
>>64242560
> I don't know the lore guise
>>64242597
Its not that she beat him perse
Its how she beat him. Firstly by winning a force fight and then going super saiyan.
Its power levels shit
>>64242038
Mary sue isn't an absolute as far as I'm aware
It's a propensity of the evidence sort of thing. Like "they do have some minor problems, but they are overwhelmingly perfect in general"
>>64241678
She clearly progressed from where we first saw her. Just because she was established as a capable character at the beginning of the film doesn't mean she didn't have a clear character arc.
Noted hack writer Max Landis calls her a Mary Sue and now everyone thinks they're an expert on screenwriting because they can repeat what he said.
>>64242229
>45 minute documentary just to get your joke.
>>64242663
>Its no where in any media
>Menace comes out
>Every fucking sith has to look like maul
Like I said, if such lazy copy pasting is "good lore" it deserved to be shit canned
>>64237597
YU CAN TEL DAT 2 KANJIKLUB
>>64242696
>max Landis
Strawman. /tv/ said it in large numbers before him. I wouldn't be surprised if he got his arguments from here
>>64237514
this. i hope they will at least try
>>64242696
>doesn't mean she didn't have a clear character arc.
no, the fact that she levelled up like a hero in a MMORPG is what meant she didn't have a clear character arc.
>piloting skills unlocked!
>mindtrick skills unlocked!
>lightsaber skills unlocked!
>>64242566
shill more faggot
There was MC to root for, because she wasn't a character as much as a cardboard box. And Kasdan is a shit
>>64242737
It's the equivalent of the Lucas thing where he greens out the story boards. I think very few /tv/s have the slightest idea how much of a sperglord is now in charge of their beloved franchise.
>>64242662
again you fail to realise what im saying. the fight makes sense ligicallly but the story would be more compelling if our protagonist had lost against the more experienced antagonist and therefore has to improve themselves and grow and mature as a character to best him. we have someone to root for next time they face off and tension is higher. now we know she can defeat the enemy fairly easily and that he has weaknesses, what is at stake for their next confrontation?
>>64240261
>Del Toro read it, and he was the one who called it "weird."
Oh man. I wonder what a Del Toro Star Wars movie would be like.
>>64240642
>>64240721
The word likely got around that Finn defected, though. He didn't show up for inspection, Kylo Ren probably sensed his inner turmoil, they would have sent out some kind of warning about him. And he had a name, it was just a stormtrooper name. It likely came with a whole file on his service history and appearance.
They can't shoot for shit, but they're not 100% incompetent.
>>64237588
would be better then a romance with the ugly nigger (but because the actress seems to be a coalburner Jew Jar already won)
>>64242829
Did you miss the part of the movie where Kylo Ren is going to go back to Ultimate Snork to finish his training?
>>64242829
You're right, so stop falling for his weak b8
>>64240643
>unnecessary mystical bullshit that is forced and out of place.
Hey now. Mysticism is a hallmark of Star Wars.
>>64242851
But Finn is gay for Poe
>>64242874
not same anon, but he still shoulda won the fight.
>>64242829
I like how people missed the point of the fight completely. It wasn't that Rey had to grow as a hero, it was they Rylo had to grow as a villian.
>>64237540
> This isn't Lucas' vision!
>>64242986
Ehh, I mean I think that this is as much of Kylo's trilogy as it is Reys, but I woulda preferred them both falling and neither being a winner
That would made the next fight much more engaging for both sides
>>64242938
This sums up my thoughts perfectly. Rey IS kind of a Mary Sue, but maybe her developments in the next film will bring her more down to earth.
She's not at center stage though, Kylo Ren is. We see that he's immature and weak compared to past SW villains, and all signs point towards one of the major pillars of the trilogy being him growing as a character just as much as the protagonists do.
He's not Vader. We know who he is fairly early on. He removes his mask on request. He gets visibly mad when things fuck up. He's going to be the morally ambiguous protagonist of the trilogy.
>>64238426
That should have been the first movie .
Why did they get rid of based Poe
Finn dies cos blacks only get 2 star wars films
>>64238167
So she fucks herself?
Not even out for a month and they're already ordering their screenwriters to hype the next movie with meaningless buzzwords.
Good points as to why Rey is Mary Sue.
>She gets jumped by three men in the beginning and effortlessly overpowers them, as opposed to Luke in ANH who gets his shit kicked in by one raider with a stick.
>She great at everything, fighting in melee, flying, knows how to repair the Falcon better than Han.
>Is unable to be saved, there are multiple moments when it looks like Rey requires help, in fact, there are moments when it makes sense for her to be saved, but the writer seemingly goes out of their way to shove it how perfect she is, such as when Finn goes to help her with the thieves but she overpowers them before he gets there. She resolves all of her problems without any help.
>Every character likes her. Han likes her immediately, Finn falls in love with her upon meeting, the droid trusts her. Kylo likes her. If we take her parallel Luke, he's constantly in conflict with Han in the first movie, Leia mocks him for being short, R2D2 walks out on him to find Ben.
Ban points for why Rey is a Mary Sue.
>She beat a heavily wounded and exhausted Dark Side apprentice.
>>64242920
dont care (but i doubt that it will happen)
>>64242938
Kylo will look like a badass in the teaser for VIII.
>>64243236
you mean like he did in all the trailers for TFA?
>>64240623
Shockingly fair
>BB8 is quite literally RD-D2
>>64242610
>Implying that a good hero's journey character arc is about their ability to learn how to do stuff.
She struggles to overcome psychological and emotional obstacles related to her being stuck in the past, dealing with abandonment issues, waiting for her family. Her transformative change is when she realizes that she has doesn't need to wait around for a family, because after the events of the story, she realizes she has one.
The fact that she utilizes the things she's good at to succeed has nothing to do with her character transformation, and really it SHOULDN'T. Good character writing isn't about what they physically overcome. It's about how they change psychologically and emotionally, and where they are at the end versus where they are at the beginning. Rey at the beginning is a lonely scavenger waiting desperately on a desert planet for the family that abandoned her and answers to her mysterious past. Rey at the end is co-piloting a ship, has a new makeshift family, has a newfound purpose in life, and is no longer waiting for answers. She now has active agency and purpose. That's a good character arc, whether you whiny tryhards are willing to acknowledge it or not.
Die Hard isn't about John McClain learning how to use a gun and do push ups. He is an adequately skilled cop at the beginning of the movie, and at the end of the movie he hasn't really gotten better at shooting or fighting than he was when the film started. His transformative character arc is about his relationship with his wife.
Mad Max is a badass the second we meet him, so is Indiana Jones, so is James Bond, and most other action-adventure protagonists.
>>64240170
I fear that too.
just the fact jarjar had his hands in it and thinks its a great plot, lets me fear for goofy time travel adventures by kylo ren.
>>64240731
JJ decided to change it and give him a more major role. Based on his personality and the decision to kill Han, he's definitely going to fill that role now.
So what would Rey have to do to become a good character in Ep. 8?
>Become a character conflicted between good and dark, ultimately becoming bad, which brings Luke to the rest of the cast
and thats all I can think of, as her being good at everything kinda limits what will make here relatable
>>64243347
Rey should die with Finn taking her place desu
>>64240360
Actually, that interview with Kasdan happened awhile back. At least a couple weeks before TFA was released, if memory serves me right. It just happens to have been recycled right now for some reason.
>>64243347
Well hopefully we'll jump more into her family leaving her.
Let's just fucking hope we're not getting Anakin 2.0 going on vendetta against whoever did the shit to her family.
Or maybe Luke is actually her dad, and they had to leave because there were a jedi crisis, or maybe he wanted to protect his family by leaving them (Killing a jedi's child would be a great way to make him go to the dark side)
>>64242806
See >>64243319
You don't know what you're talking about if you think there was no character arc. You're just repeating things other people said. Echo chamber much?
>>64242740
The Sith species (the species that lived on Korriban) were red. That was their color. When the fallen Jedi landed on Korriban and started interbreeding, some members of the Sith order had that color. The One Sith under Darth Krayt also started using red and black tattoos as a way of honoring the Sith species. Hope that helped, breh.
And can we fucking talk about the light saber suddenly having ANY relevance at all in this franchise.
The light saber 'calling' on her, is this a wand from harry fucking potter now
>>64243456
I think having her get over her parents with Luke's help through training would be kinda cool. Be her emotional journey of sorts.
>>64243319
I suppose this makes sense, but I feel like there was still something wrong.
This is going to sound like a cop-out, but I didn't FEEL Rey's arc. In ANH you have a tangible sense of Luke changing as a person, of him growing up a bit and learning that it's he, not his wise old mentor, who has to save the day. It just doesn't seem like Rey goes through something similar, even though the motions of character growth are there.
>>64243319
Yes, but the issue is that the narration which is supposed to explain the character and their qualifications doesn't explain why Rey is good at what she does. That's not good writing, even if you think the focus of good writing should purely be about creating characters who must overcome emotional and psychological barriers.
>>64243512
Tbqh familia, it always had some kind of spirituality for the Jedi. Finding your own crystal, assembling your own lightsaber, etc etc
>>64243319
John McClain is vulnerable. If Ray manage to overcome all obstacles without big problems where is then the tension?
>>64243347
Either going to the dark side, or its revealed how in the fuck she was so fucking powerful with no force training. In empire it was a big deal when Luke could move shit with his mind. Not only does Rey magically know how, she overpowers Ren who is trying to retrieve it as well, and he has been trained and practiced for years.
>>64240959
>Kylo is going to be redeemed next episode, and be the new protagonist.
>Hux will just be the background villain like this episode
>Snoke will just be pulling strings.
>Benicio will be episode 8's antagonist, while Rey gets built up for her downfall to the darkside by the end of the film.
>>64243512The unseen hand of Anakin Skywalker was helping Rey through the entire movie.Rey admits she had no idea how she was able to pilot the falcon that well. Anakin, however was an ace pilotHe guided her to his light saber, and he resisted Rylo from taking it.He put the idea into her head about "not as good as vader" rather than her actually taking it from Rylo herselfHe was the one the helped her convince the guards to release her
Bank on it
>>64243622
>Didn't even know the Jedi thing was true
>Suddenly knows how to mind trick
i guees she watched the movies to learn that one XD
>>64240816
>I mean, why would you keep him alive then?
why would you cast Oscar Isaac and then only put him in the movie for ten minutes.
the films are being cobbled together hurriedly without a lot of thought. each film of the OT took three years while these are taking 2.
>>64243347
Never seen so many people recite criticism about male protagonists who are "good at everything." Luke knew how to fly an x-wing with no shown experience, no problem. Anakin was a master pilot when he was a fucking slave toddler, no problem
Rey's a capable enough fighter to get away from the wounded, erratic apprentice that wasn't trying to kill her in the first place, and knows how to fly spaceships in a universe where they're fucking everywhere. MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE. I DIDN'T KNOW THIS TERM EVEN EXISTED UNTIL A WEEK AGO BUT NOW I'M A FUCKING EXPERT ABOUT IT.
The guy who is directing VIII seems to have a thing for dark settings, depressing atmospheres and weird dark humor.
I have a feeling its going to be the more dark, mature of the two films, much like how ESB was compared to ANH
>>64240623
Rey is a sith.
RIP star wars
>>64241753
>rey
>knights of ren
she is the female clone of palpatine.
she will kill luke and turn to the dark side and the guilt ridden kylo will fail to stop her. After that he will discover the ancient sith technique of time travel (tm) and call himself snoke to make himself stronger after failing to alter the past.
in the end finns love and friendship will save her.
>>64243703
Luke is at least shown flying things, and he says multiple times that he's a good pilot.
Anakin being a master pilot as a kid is really stupid, but it's from the prequels. Why are you acting like the prequels doing something awful excuses a similar thing in TFA?
>>64243319
>>64243609
this tbqh, there is nothing at stake if the protagonist succeeds at absolutely everything by themselves. kylo ren is by far a more compelling character so far.
>>64243675
She probably heard a fairy tale about Jedi mind tricks and decided to try it after being shown that the Force exists. It's not like she had any better options during that scene.
>>64243497
Maul is a fucking Zabrak, he's not a Sith pureblood.
>>64243649
This all right here is why it will be "weird" Rey has been built up for the fans as the mary sue female strong character, when in actuality this will be her downfall as she is to strong willed and will be lured by the fact she things she knows everything. Not much in film as the Hero everyone loves, and the villain everyone hates (due to killing han solo) switch sides. Once again this is why it will be "weird"
>>64243703
>Luke knew how to fly an x-wing with no shown experience, no problem
He was the son of Anakin, an amazing pilot, as said earlier in the movieplus the force
>Anakin was a master pilot when he was a fucking slave toddler, no problem
Podraces, but then again, those movies are fucking stupid
Look I know what your saying, but those had some explanation, Rey has none, shes just good
Also Kylo is a bit more of an apprentice, but the fight wasn't a big deal, it was that she could fire blasters with ease after ONE mishap, and knew exactly how the Millenium falcon worked.
Your fucking stupid
>>64243775
When I watched it I really did hope the stormtropper was gonna shut her down, it'd be so hilarious if he did, and he did, but of course it worked afterwards sadly.
For me personally, failing the mind trick, getting btfo by the guard for her jedi bullshit, grabbing a hair pin and lock picking her way out or like something retarded like that, would have been more satisfying.
>>64243512
objects with force relevance has been part of eu for a long long time, but that became non canon and is pretty fanfiction tier anyway
so thats why its perfect in TFA
>>64242076
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EJ6AmplD8g
>>64237511
>won't just be another entire movie of exposition
I get you man. Every other fucking film thats hit cinemas this year has been a god awful origin story trying to copy the Marvel CU path and make a long winded series. Remember The Man From U.N.C.L.E.? Remember Fantastic Four?
fuck this stupid Finn x Poe spacebros romance gay shit
it should be fucking obvious to you idiots that Luke's gonna be the one to fuck Finn. Them lips on a beard
>>64243754
No he is not. Closest he gets to flying anything before he gets an X-Wing is a hover car. It wasn't until the 97 rerelease that they added a deleted scene where they say he isn't a bad pilot. He briefly mentions repairing a ship at one point.
And Rey is shown MAKING HER LIVING with her knowledge of spacecraft and mechanical engineering. We see her learning curve as she learns how to fly an unfamiliar space craft. And unlike Luke, her ability as a pilot isn't the deciding factor in the defeat of the bad guys. The actual professional pilot actually destroys the big evil base, not some moisture farmer flying a space jet for the first time ever, using magic to control photon torpedoes into a tiny hole.
>>64243801
I never said that he was a Sith pureblood. IIRC purebloods disappeared well before Darth Maul's era, with the Holocaust and what not.
>>64244039
Actually she makes her living by scavenging throughna star destroyer. That doesn't mean she knows jackshit about how one is build or functions or even hiw to fly one. She is just able to seperate valuable from unvaluable stuff. She is neither an engineer nor a pilot.
>>64241957
Bogota Humana
>>64237485
>everyone will hate it
You mean this is why Reddit will hate it
>>64243609
Rey doesn't "overcome all obstacles without big problems." She's on her heels defending against Kylo the entire fight until he offers to train her and she uses that to disarm him. She has to fight, climb, hide, and struggle for the entire movie as shit continuously hits the fan all around her. She bleeds, sweats, cries, watches friends die and get maimed, and undergoes a huge character arc as she decides to let go of the past and have her own sense of agency at the end of the film. She transitions from everything happening TO her to actually being the engine of forward progress. That she managed to NOT DIE is in the film in which she is the protagonist is only real basis for this criticism.
And Rey is vulnerable the entire time, she is repeatedly in situations where she's running for her life, she is kidnapped and tortured. The fact that she manages to survive by the skin of her teeth is exactly what protagonists do.
>>64243319
Did you really not see how everyone is complaining how she makes friends with everyone she meets so easily? That makes the "victory" of having a makeshift family all the more shallow because we as the audience never feel like she earned it or had to struggle to get there.
Honestly if there was a character arc, it was extremely shallow and overshadowed by her ability to do everything on her own. Her lack of vulnerability makes it seem like she doesn't need anyone else, so "getting the family" at the end doesn't have the impact that it should.
how is a jedi even chosen
is it a "oh you're such a good person" thing
or are you just literally born with the force
>>64244470
Midicolorian count
>>64240523
indeed check my rate
>>64244039
What about all those womp rats he'd bullseye in his T-16 zipping around Beggar's Canyon with Biggs?
He piloted more than a landspeeder.
>>64241779
It's reddit
>>64244611
This is the only correct list
OT: Timeless classic,the comfiest fun you can have
PT: Abysmal trash
Disney: Summer blockbusters
>>64244220
Except SHE IS EXPLICITLY SHOWN TO KNOW QUITE A FUCKING BIT ABOUT HOW SPACECRAFT ARE BUILT AND OPERATED. That's the whole thing you retards are fucking complaining about. She spends the entire fucking film demonstrating her skill as a mechanical engineer and her adequacy as a pilot. You can't complain about how she is a Mary Sue who knows too much and is too skilled, AND try and disregard all the times she actually demonstrates that knowledge and skill as somehow not counting.
The fact that we are shown multiple instances in the first act that provide exposition that explains WHY she knows these things is how screenwriting works.
>She is neither an engineer nor a pilot.
She clearly is. Her whole livelihood is established on being dependent on her mechanical engineering skills working in and scavenging from spacecraft, and she wouldn't have survived had she not been able to defend herself. Her abilities in TFA are overwhelmingly better established and plausible than Luke's in ANH. She worked on spaceships for a living by herself and homeless, he farmed moisture in a cozy family compound.
The only reason this complaint is occurring is because Rey is a female, and it's apparently offensive to internet dipshits that she would know how to do stuff. Nobody complains when Mad Max uses his fighting skills, or his mechanical knowledge, to NOT DIE in the story where he's a protagonist.
>>64237569
Kylo will cause the Third Impact and Rey is Rei.
>>64244888
Go to bed Lawrence Kasdan
>>64244958
oh no
>>64245018
'Exhaust vents' my ass.
>>64244888
Thats the point you retard.
she clearly has no background giving her this knowledge. She is a scavenger. The first thing she does with the mf is nearly crashing it. In minutes of screentime she suddenly masters the ship, knows everything about its outlay and han solo sants her as a copilot. That is the definition of mary sue, you idiot.
>>64245102
Han Solo wants her to work for him as a smuggler, not as co-pilot. You're right about her knowing how to pilot the MF within seconds though.
>>64237980
kek
>>64244451
Again with the "we" shit. "You" are well in the minority here.
So now the complaint is that she's not an asocial autist in the first act so she's a MARY SUE when she forms a familial bond with the people she shared the adventure with. "We" the audience clearly see her go from being mistrusting and aloof, eventually letting her guard down, forming friendships over the span of the film, and eventually realizing she doesn't need to go back to Jakku and wait for a family because she has one, and she can find her own answers. VERY CLEAR CHARACTER ARC.
The fact that she's not some mumbling unskilled autist at the beginning of the film isn't a valid complaint.
The ironic thing is that the more rational complaint would be that her character arc is too standard and overly sappy, but you retards are too caught up in repeating things you heard smarter people say about MARY SUE that you're not capable of acknowledging that she even had a character arc.
Any pretense to knowing what the fuck you're talking about is out the door, you clearly don't no fuckall about story structure or writing dynamic characters in film. You're just repeating meaningless talking points that don't actually apply at all to the relevant subject.
>>64241646
>only 5 threads per row
>>64244432
> The fact that she manages to survive by the skin of her teeth is exactly what protagonists do.
lets compare her first lightsaber duel to anakins
anakin gets his asskicked and arm cut off even though he's fighting with obi, they ended up needing yoda to save their asses.
Luke gets dominated by vader and again loses an arm, he is forced to jump to almost certain death
meanwhile Ray picks up a lightsaber for the first time, doesn't lose an arm and actually wins her fight completely
>>64245305
All ships share similar flying mechanisms.
I don't see people whining about POE being able to fly a Tie-fighter he's never flown before well either.
>>64238535
this. hold on to your anus
>>64245523
Rey can melee fight, and she was fighting against a very wounded and weak rylo.
Again, the fight wasn't about Rey needing to grow, it was about Rylo needing to grow.
>>64237511
i dont think you know what exposition actually is. back to bed please
>>64245613
Exactly, she doesn't need to grow, she's already goddamn perfect
>>64245523
> text
> text
> text
>>64245548
It's stated several times that Poe is the best pilot in the resistance. He could probably parallel park a star destroyer no problem.
>>64245548
Poe was the best pilot of the resistance and the first thing he does is nearly killing himself, because he does not know shipspecific knowledge like how to cut the string. Have you even watched the movie?
a highly trained stormtrooper has problems using the shipcannons. Rey can fly any ship in minutes no problem, because she scavenged a star destroyer. I am sure the airforce scavengers scavenging b52s for parts, can fly a modern day interceptor with no problem then, right?
>>64245441
Way to strawman my argument and miss the point, bravo. She doesn't have to be an "asocial autist" to be a good character; it's just that because she tends to excel in all situations then it wouldn't hurt for her to have more difficulty in making friends. The fact that people warm up to her so readily makes her "change" less meaningful.
It's difficult to care about her "character arc" because there is no suspense when it comes to anything she does, because she is going to succeed or even outperform others who would have succeeded. You are so fucking set on whether or not there is a character arc rather than how much impact that arc made. It was completely overshadowed by her Mary Sueness.
Nice ad hominems btw, really shows you are the one who has little to argue about.
>implying that Rey is a dynamic character
>>64245102
>she clearly has no background giving her this knowledge.
She clearly fucking does. What part of "makes a living working on spacecraft" suggests she has "no background" in knowing how to operate spacecraft? What part of "farms moisture" does?
I've not bothered mentioning that the novelization of the book EXPLICITLY SAYS THAT SHE TAUGHT HERSELF HOW TO FLY USING SIMULATORS FOUND IN THE STAR DESTROYER.
But we don't need that extra exposition from that canon source of information that completely ruins your entire point, because we as a movie-going audience have the ability to understand context clues within the film itself. Screenwriting and directing 101 stresses how it's better to SHOW, DON'T TELL as much as you can regarding character exposition. We are SHOWN where her knowledge of spacecraft comes from, we are SHOWN her hanging out with an ex-wing helmet, we are SHOWN her learning curve as she learns to fly a new spacecraft, we are SHOWN her ability to defend herself from living in a hostile environment for most of her life.
>That is the definition of mary sue, you idiot.
My point isn't that she is or isn't a mary sue/marty sue. Essentially ALL protagonists are, and that's the fucking point. You dipshits are only complaining about this one, who has considerably more plot exposition to explain her abilities than many other notable protagonists, which nobody has ever taken issue with.
"A young or low-rank person who saves the day through extraordinary abilities" applies to all 3 Star Wars protagonists, not to mention essentially ALL sci-fi protagonists. Neo was just some hacker who sucked at his job who turned out to be THE ONE and have mind-bending powers over reality. Luke was just some angsty moisture farmer who wanted more in life and turned out to be THE ONE and have mind-bending powers over reality. Sarah Conner was just some bored waitress who turned out to be the mother of THE ONE and became an epic badass to protect him.
>>64239951
Hey actual reddit!
It means Reddit will love it Reddit Reddit Reddit meme meme
>>64245613
Yeah because rey is already on basically padawan jedi state without even trying. And a piloting wonder, good socializer and highly trained in hand to hand combat. She holds the most confirmed blaster kills in her whole mary sue unit. Its like she jumped out of the fucking gorillapastas, thats how bad she is written.
>>64245523
>anakin gets his asskicked and arm cut off even though he's fighting with obi, they ended up needing yoda to save their asses.
That wasn't Anakin's first lightsaber duel.
>Luke gets dominated by vader and again loses an arm, he is forced to jump to almost certain death.
He chooses to jump.
>meanwhile Ray picks up a lightsaber for the first time, doesn't lose an arm and actually wins her fight completely
Rey has a considerable amount of combat experience, and Kylo isn't Vader (that's kind of the fucking point). And she's only blocking or awkwardly stabbing for the entirety of their fight. He's wounded, and he's not trying to kill her. She takes advantage of his attempts to recruit her to disarm him and manages to get away as the world falls apart.
And Luke used the Force with almost no training to win the day in ANH, so quit acting like he's somehow more plausible.
>>64246247
If you say so. It she was male and did everything that she did it wouldn't have even been a blip on the internet.
>>64246161
So you are telling me that the character is that badly written, that i have to read a book about the film, so she doesn't look like a mary sue? And you want to tell me thats how you write characters?
it btw doesn't even make sense, because she clearly has knowledge of the ship functions disregarding stuff needed to pilot.
and its a lazy explanation. It doesn't even make sense. She doesn't want to leave the planet.
and yes 2 out of 3 main characters were mary sues. Luke though wasn't. He was a naiv idiot, whos only strengths were being a good pilot and being able to use the force. It takes hkm two fucking movies to learn how to combat with lightsabers and vader still rips him a new one. He must be supervised by fucking yoda to even stand a chance. The reason he manages to blow up the death star was because the force clearly guided him. And i would agree that it is fucking lazy.
And anakin? He is the most hated figure in the whole prequels and that tells a lot if jar jar bings is your main opponent for that price. He is trained by obi wan, who is one of the best sabrefighters in the order and still doku rips him apart, just as obi wan does. Him being overpowered is lazy, but it had to fit into the whole chosen sheme. His piloting skills are lazy, yes.
>>64246363
Yeah anakin is really the most liked characters of all isn't he?
you dipshit.
>>64246159
Way to make fallacy accusations when the rest of your argument is incoherent and meaningless.
You literally complained that because she "makes friends with everyone she meets so easily" (which she didn't) that she didn't earn it when she finally had friends after being alone and lonely on a desert planet.
>It's difficult to care about her "character arc" because there is no suspense when it comes to anything she does, because she is going to succeed
Oh, so like literally every protagonist in an adventure film ever.
>or even outperform others who would have succeeded.
She doesn't get killed by the injured dude who wasn't trying to kill her. What an outperformance.
>implying that Rey is a dynamic character
Implying you have the vaguest idea of what "dynamic character" is. You want to argue that her arc isn't satisfying? Great! But there's not a valid argument that you can make that she isn't a dynamic character. She unambiguously changes throughout the course of the story. She's a lonely, homeless scavenger at the beginning of the film. She's copiloting the millenium falcon with her new friends while she begins training as a Jedi at the end. That's inarguably a dynamic character arc. You're inarguably a know-nothing try hard.
It'll be so 'out there', 'unconventional', and 'risky' like you know, racoons and tree people.
In case you didn't know, Disney is such a risk taker.
>>64243673
thats some mgsv bullshit
>>64246748
She pilots the falcon after the first act. She shows excellent combat skills in the first act. The only thing that changes is that the ship is now hers and she beats up people with a lightsaber instead of a stick. The first time she uses a blasters, she hits spot on. The first time she flys the mf she masters it in minutes, the first time she uses the force she wins against a fucking multiple years trained sith/jedi. Thats not development. Thats just showcasing over 180 minutes.
>>64244958
she's a clone of fins mum? this is the explanation of the cross - sabre? Luke's lightsabre is the lance of longinus? this is why Finn is so incompetent and tried to quit multiple times? so poe is asuka, the cocky experienced pilot?
it all makes sense, jayjay is a visionary
>>64246690
I'm telling you that mary sue is a meaningless criticism, and the word of the week. We don't need the novel to be able to infer where she learned how to do things, because we are shown multiple elements of exposition that provide more than enough context from any screenwriting perspective.
Not to mention, the only justifications for why Luke was immediately the best pilot in his squadron are only based on deleted scenes and supplemental shit from books and backstory. Can't make a valid criticism of Rey in TFA if you're ok with Luke in ANH.
And tl;dr for the rest of it. It's all clearly going in circles here, and if you want to dislike some shit over wackily petty, misguided complaints, I'ma let you do you. I don't give a shit. I thought the movie was incredibly competent and the script was considerably better than average, but didn't take ANY risks.
My beef with these complaints isn't that they're being made, it's that they're fucking stupid. Mary Sue is a retarded criticism that essentially applies to ALL protagonists, but you dipshits are only whining about THIS one. It speaks to the general competence of the film that this is the biggest criticism, and it's only coming from nerds who in all actuality are complaining that she's not a dude.
>>64247028
The first time she uses THAT blaster, she hits spot on. She tells Han that she can handle one, and he responds about how he was confident she could. But once again, these are complaints that apply to essentially EVERY PROTAGONIST IN AN ADVENTURE MOVIE.
> the first time she uses the force she wins against a fucking multiple years trained sith/jedi.
If she's Luke's daughter she would have been trained in the force for years before being abandoned. Either way, she read a force-user's mind. And complaining that the protagonist managed to overcome adversity and not die in the final boss battle isn't a valid criticism. It's retarded. It's so overwhelmingly stupid. The whole point of a protagonist is that the odds are stacked against them and they overcome it.
If you people aren't complaining that she wasn't challenged enough, you're complaining that she was facing too great a challenge to have been able to win. Make up your goddamn minds.
>Thats not development
You've made it abundantly clear that you don't understand what that is.
>>64238500
>Star Wars VIII: Genisys
Rey is Revan
>>64247447
Mary sue is no lazy criticism or a flavor of the month word. It was allready prominent when dnd turned the book daenerys into the series mary sue. No complaints where made against any other female hero. Just her, because it is lazy screenwriting to showcase without context. The way it is shown may show that she is able to do x and y, but it doesn't make it a good explanation or her a fitting figure. And it makes her undynamic. She can do everything she does at the end after 60 minutes screentime except her force usage whjch awakes without any reason or context.
as i said lukes piloting skills are lazy. But it is one of the few things he can do. He is shit at hand to hand combat on a jedi scale until meeting yoda. He cannot use the force properly until meeting yoda.
>>64247697
>If she's Luke's daughter she would have been trained in the force for years before being abandoned
you marey sue defenders always say this, it makes me wonder if you've actually seen the movie
Rey was like four when she was left on jakku. you telling me luke trained her to proficiency by the age of 4?
kylo is fucking 30. he's trained with both luke and with snoke and at this point has around twenty years of experience/training
>>64247916
>flavour of the month word
it was a meme on /tg/ way before it was on here I must inform you
it's more a flavour of a few years ago word desu
>>64247999
Orwell was right, y'all motherfuckers wanna control language
Mary Sue is a perfect term for Rey. She can do fucking everything, never needs help in a real substantial way, and is shown time and time again to be the cornerstone of the story
Surrealist, I hope
>>64247697
There is no big enough challenge. Because she is a laziely written marie sue. She doesn't habe to die. Make han solo save her after getting beaten and him dieing in the progress. Voila way better. Have you already forgotten, that luke didn't face vader in the first movie, but obi wan sacrifices himself to prevent this, because luke is not ready?
that he gets his ass handed in the second movie?
that he does not beat but win over vader in the third?
habe you forgotten that doku destroys anakin and obi wan in the second and obi wan quite literaly murders anakin after years of training?
>>64244611
>TFA is fedora
tip tip
>>64242929
also the fact that he wasn't trying to hurt her at all and only trying to get her on his force johnson...
>>64243306
>R2D2 is an old as fuck astromech droid
How dare a new mechanical device be developed and produced to serve a similar function as an older model
>>64243196
this fucking webm
>>64247923
Actress that played young Rey is like 10.
>kylo is fucking 30. he's trained with both luke and with snoke and at this point has around twenty years of experience/training
And we're still ignoring that Kylo had been gutshot by Chewbacca's rifle, which was powerful enough to send troopers flying through the air. We should be talking about how ridiculous it was that he even managed to make it to the fight.
And we're still ignoring that Kylo wasn't trying to kill her. He was trying to recruit her. He easily dominated the fight the entire time, until she took advantage of him waiting for her response to his offer. Luke had a "use the force" moment where he managed to accomplish a seemingly-impossible task, and so did Rey. But we're only complaining about her for some reason. Wonder why that is.
>>64237390
Rey willend up with a white man, that is definitely weird
>>64249136
because luke got this moment in vii post yoda?
>>64243703
Luke flies a shitty fighter craft and shoots wamp rats on Tatooine with his homies... one of whom is now a rebel pilot. They have been waiting to fly with the rebs for years. Yes, an X-Wing is a much more complicated craft and the Battle of Yavin was some Normandy Beach shit... but Luke had some air combat experience and had leveld up a bit since farm boy.
Anakin from the 1st movie doesn't fucking count. That movie is shit and there is a blanket objection to any and all discussion and reference to that movie.
Rey was a 5 year old employee of that scavenger guy and... uh... new more about the Falcon that Han and Chewie.
>>64249136
Its ridicoulus enough that he was actually hit to make up an excuse to ehy the mary had a chance. Its even more ridicoulous thatmyou think a sith trained force user couldn't still facestomp her. He did not play with her.
>>64244888
agreed. She likely new the Falcon as her job was to go and fetch parts... to fix the falcon.
>>64238017
>kylo and rey incest
Going for the Game of Thrones audience, I see.
But really, it would be pretty cool if Rey fell to the dark side, traded in the shitty desert rags for a sleek black outfit, and got lewd with her cousin.
>>64248095
>Mary Sue is a perfect term for Rey.
It's a "perfect term" for essentially every protagonist in an action-adventure film. Why is some college professor so good at swinging around with whips and shooting people in the face? Why would some crippled dude be awesome Avatar thing? Why would some aloof hacker be The One? Why would some schlubby cop be able to single-handedly murder a dozen heavily armed "terrorists'? Why would some moisture farmer be an amazing fighter pilot with zero fighter pilot training? Why would some Australian cop be so good at apocalypsing?
>She can do fucking everything,
If by everything you mean the thing she did for a living, and the thing she had to know how to do to survive, sure, she can do "everything." Having a protagonist in a movie about spaceships know how to drive one, and having the protagonist manage to NOT DIE in a fight sure is ridiculous.
>never needs help in a real substantial way
Except for how she frequently needs help from people throughout the film. Not to mention, if she was completely useless you nerds would on here shitposting about how Star Wars nerfed itself by making the protagonist a useless woman. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
>and is shown time and time again to be the cornerstone of the story
You know, like a protagonist. How fucking crazy that she would be the "cornerstone" in a movie about her.
Again we'll restate the fact that "a young or low-rank person who saves the day through extraordinary abilities" applies to essentially all protagonists in the adventure genres. It's almost like the entire point of her character being the focal point of the story is because her character is extraordinary or something.
David and Goliath is such bullshit. David was such a Mary Sue.
>>64249312
Anakin had to learn to not crash a pod racer and that's even with his Force based sixth sense that aided him in avoiding danger. Even with that ability he wrecked several pods and hadn't won a race or even finished a race until the events of The Phantom Menace. In fact, his mother, he did and his boss spoke of how often he crashed.
Anakin through trial and effort and practice was able to synch his Force ability with his trained pod racing skill.
during the last battle, the ship was taken to battle remotely and then anakin used the very same sixth sense ability to avoid danger. even the controls was similar to a pod's controls. and the destruction of the base ship was accidental. he landed in the hanger bay while avoiding fighters, uses the guns on approaching droids and accidentally destroys a fuel tank.
>>64242663
I couldn't stop laughing when I heard that Star Wars "lore" was all retconned. Bunch of fucking 10 year olds obsessing over stupid shit that doesn't even exist
>>64249432
>He did not play with her.
Yes he did you shitstain. He wanted to bring her to Snoke as a present. He was also badly wounded and basically functioning only off of sheer force of will at that point. Rey's USE THA FORCE moment was setting Kylo off balance and taking advantage of his multiple injuries to get the fuck away from him.
>>64249653
bullshit. every action film always ever had a protagonist who was good at what they did within reason.
BY YOUR ESTIMATION, James Bond could have been a garbage man one day and an international spy the next because he as a young boy of five, trained with the sas and because as a garbage man, he had to fend of niggers and beaners every day. so him becoming an international man of mystery the next day and being able to pilot a fighter jet is rather reasonable because he could fly a crop duster and stuff.
tl;dr you're a moronic simpleton out to defend a shitty movie and an even shittier character.
>>64248151
>Complains that there's no big enough challenge.
>Complains that Kylo is too overpowered.
Pick one.
>Complains that things are too easy for her.
>Complains when she doesn't get saved.
Pick one.
>Have you already forgotten, that luke didn't face vader in the first movie, but obi wan sacrifices himself to prevent this, because luke is not ready?
Luke used the force to inexplicably blow up a Death Star against all odds while inexplicably expertly piloting a fighter jet without having ever flown one before. Let's quit pretending that this is different.
And while we're at it, let's quit pretending that Kylo Ren is Darth Vader. The entire point is that he is not. He's the son of Vader's non-force-using daughter, she's probably the daughter of Vader's super-force-using Son. Her being more powerful isn't exactly hard to fathom, especially when he was explicitly not trying to kill her and she only managed to get away by taking advantage of a pause that he afforded her. His entire arc leads is about his self-defeating inner-conflict. She didn't win the fight, he lost it, and technically it was a draw anyways.
>habe you forgotten that doku destroys anakin and obi wan in the second and obi wan quite literaly murders anakin after years of training?
So what you're saying is that Kylo Ren ISN'T Count Doku? Who'd have thought. Also, not sure if you know what "quite literally" means.
>>64250042
Your blowing that anon's explanation way off center. Rey isn't a Jedi master. She isn't even at the level of Padawan. She got lucky and rode the tidal wave of her own talent with the Force to beat an injured angsty dark jedi who was trying to convert her.
>>64249432
>He did not play with her.
He clearly was. He was on the offensive the entire time, controlled the entire fight, and was trying to recruit her. She took advantage of his pausing to get a good hit in and disarm him and escape.
>>64250121
bloflack Rey out force used an active force user. She used telepathy to her advantage, a master level ability. She pulled a saber to her on her first attempt, she out fought Ren who easily pushed her towards a precipice and only did so because he said she needed some one to teach her the force. She looks at him and goes, "oh yeah, that force thing Han was blabbering about but a few hours ago. I believe, I believe, I believe; By the power of my Disney Power Princess Hidden tiara of Divine Femininity: I HAVE THE POWER."
she's such a Mary Sue she's crossed that bridge is a deus ex machina unto her self, anything she tries she's good at, she climbs without effort, flys the falcon without effort...it's not only maddening but it's sickening.
instead of making a believable protagonist they were too busy trying to dethrone all Male Protagonist combined.
>>64250271
Rey only used the Force when Ren mentioned it. quite literally she looks at him with a look of remembering and understanding as if she could call force abilities that takes years to master, to her aide, just by believing. it so pissed me off at t hat point i literally wanted out of the theater.
>>64250271
>she climbs without effort
After living in a massive star destroyer for ten years???????????
>flys the falcon without effort
Confirmed for never watching the movie, it was a miracle the Falcon actually stayed together with all the abuse she put it through.
>>64250071
moron. luke used the force to tell him when to fire. that's it, the missiles did the rest. all luke did was using the force to tell him when to press the button. from then on, he got his shit pushed in and had to be saved repeatedly.
you rey apologist are really dumb and you're reaching and it's so obvious.
And KYLO REN, used two of the most Over Powered Force abilities ever seen in six movies.
Force Freeze and Force Interrogation, that is until Mary Sue Rey out psyched a powerfully accomplished active force user.
>>64250411
And yet, she at full speed flew through a death star avoiding every obstacle. can you say, MARY SUE REY? At the very least Luke flew his beat up flyer through canyons chasing huge vermin which was a lot like the death star's canyon. At least Anakin wrecked several pods in trying to gain proficiency with pod racers of which other aliens was already very good at.
>>64250042
Neo was some computer nerd, Luke was a moisture farmer, Sarah Conner was a waitress, John McClain and Max Rockatansky were shitty beat cops, Harry Potter was some unloved orphan. They all should have died A LOT, they all were up against seemingly impossible odds, and yet they all somehow managed to save the day.
>James Bond could have been a garbage man one day and an international spy the next...
COUGH, Bourne Identity, COUGH Wanted, COUGH Kingsmen
>the next day and being able to pilot a fighter jet is rather reasonable because he could fly a crop duster and stuff.
You literally just said the justification for why Luke was able to fly an X-Wing.
>tl;dr you're a moronic simpleton out to defend a shitty movie and an even shittier character.
And you're an edgy contrarian dipshit that doesn't know what he's talking about. Keep on trying captain tryhard.
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