Hiltzik is a business columnist for the Los Angeles Times.
http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-mh-star-wars-the-force-awakens-stinks-20151226-column.html
"The issue is whether "The Force Awakens" deserves to be considered as a movie, because it's not. It's the anchoring element of a vast commercial program, painstakingly factory-made for maximal audience appeal, which means maximal inoffensiveness."
"Abrams seems to follow the precept that the surest way to keep from putting a foot wrong is to walk only within the footprints of one's predecessors. As has been noted by a few reviewers who braved the intimidating weight of "Star Wars: the Phenomenon" to write critical pans, the new movie obsequiously replicates the formula of the original -- its set pieces, rhythm, pacing, even dialogue -- almost without advancing the story at all. It's a mark of Disney's own caretaker mentality that not only is a Jar Jar Binks-level blunder absent from "The Force Awakens," but so is surprise or even much suspense."
The L.A. Times should have this guy shit on every Marvel, DCU and Star Wars flick desu
>>64203983
I agree with this in part, but not to the extremes of Hitzler, who wants page Hitz.
>>64203983
Holy fuck, that was brutal
A critic being an actual critic. This is unfortunately news in 2015.
>>64203983
>it makes money so it's bad
Sounds like a shit-shattered failed businessman who used to work for a Disney competitor. Maybe we should live in glorious communist state where all media is publicly funded so that way it's super high quality.
>>64204439
>>it makes money so it's bad
He never said that. He said it's explicitly made to make as much money, therefore it's a shallow shit movie. And he's right about that, Disney friend.
>>64204439
>being this stupid
Hiltzik is a Pulitzer Prize winner. If you hadn't heard of him before this 4chan post about Star Wars, you are a cretin.
>>64203983
here comes the angry backlash
>>64204573
If he's a Pulitzer Prize winner, why does he start some sentences with the word, "but"? Are they handing them out to Grade 3 students, now?
TFA is gonna one of those movies no ones gonna remember. It's part of star wars, but it'll always be in the shadow of other great titles.
>>64204663
But would you care to point out a flaw in his argument? No, you wouldn't. Becauseyou can't.
>>64203983
This guy cracks me up
>Modern blockbusters are not enjoyable the way the original "Star Wars" was, because they come at you as artifacts of high finance. Sitting in the theater at "Avatar," I felt like I was being pounded into submission by a giant hedge fund. Watching "The Force Awakens," I felt as though I was being shown a trailer for the next four movies in the series. Except that trailers aren't normally two hours long and you don't have to pay $12.50 to see them.
Hit the nail on the head, Hiltzik. It's much what AAA videogames are. Very manufactured and fake. This isn't creativity. It's simple focus testing at a large scale.
>>64204813
I see what you did, there. Twice.
>>64203983
Wow. Great piece. Nice to see Disney being called out on this very disappointing movie. It was so underwhelming. Sure youre entertained while watching it. But when the movies over you just feel like nothing really happened in the movie.
Why do people get so angry at other peoples' opinions?
>It was said of George Lucas that he originally envisioned "Star Wars" as the first of a trilogy, which became reimagined as a series of three trilogies, and ended with two. Now we're at seven films, and anyone who thinks "Star Wars" will end at nine features doesn't know their Disney. The company, you see, is not really a movie studio, but an entertainment conglomerate. For Disney, "Star Wars" will be the gift that keeps giving. You, the consumer, are the mark who keeps paying.
Reminder that each and every one of you cocksuckers who defended the "Marvel Universe" are responsible for this. Fuck all of you.
>>64204793
this is pretty delusional anon. if it's a rehash it's easy to remember. not to mention han dies in it.
>>64203983
This is a very refreshing review to see and basically sum up how I feel about Star Wars in general. It's nothing more than a commercialized product with it's fans basically being a huge focus group test to find out new ways or the other million Star Wars things to make money
>he's a columnist so somehow his opinion is more valid
>>64204931
>But when the movies over you just feel like nothing really happened in the movie.
that's how I felt about a new hope and empire to be honest family
>>64204875
But that criticism is absurd. Avatar (which is a horribly flawed movie before someone just responds to my post by accusing me of being a Cameron fanboy instead of an actual coherent counter argument) is not a studio product like TFA, which is why Avatar had multiple high profile predictions of being a bomb and its level of success was a surprise while everyone could see TFA would be a guaranteed hit.
>>64205020
Did anyone even care that Han died? Nobody I talked to gave a shit. It was such a forgettable scene of a character that no longer felt like Solo anyways.
>>64205069
>Fincher, Nolan, Kubrick!!!! I'm such a film buff!!!
you
>>64205111
Avatar is probably the safest an original IP can be without being outright sued for plagiarism.
>>64204931
> But when the movies over you just feel like nothing really happened in the movie.
Tell that to my broken heart after Han's death.
I dare you.
>>64204983
And the worse part is that they will keep on paying to watch those movies.
>>64204983
Fuck cinematic universes
>>64205214
Avengers 2 had a lower box office result than Avengers 1. Disney may plan on their model lasting well into the 2020s but the best laid plans...
>>64205292
>Avengers 2 had a lower box office result than Avengers 1.
But it still made like a billion at the box office. These movies are making bank and by the time they slow down in popularity, we might well be past the point of no return. Once you go big, it's hard to downsize and settle for lesser profits.
>>64204983
>>64205214
top cuck
autismos
sperg more
I gonna watch it for the 3rd time just to make sure we get new ones every year
>>64205214
the horror of people paying to see something they're interested in.
>>64205292
>>64205345
Disney considered Age of Ultron to be a failure due to its under performance
STAR KUCKS ON SUICIDE WATCH!
>>64205120
Regardless, he's a main character in the OT. The movie has its flaws but you are reaching. It isn't forgettable. If anything is going to be forgettable it will probably be the next one.
>>64205378
>interested in
>not pushed to see it due to the onslaught of manipulative advertising and media influence
$10 successfully deposited into your Disney ShillPal
>>64205429
>le fedora tip
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA YOUR MOVIE IS SHIT STAR FAGGOTS
REV UP THOSE RAZOR BLADES YOU FUCKING LOSERS!
>>64205390
What does that say about Disney that they are disappointed about a movie breaking 1 billion at the box office? With unreasonable budgets come unreasonable expectations.
>>64205429
That tinfoil fedora is really keeping the disney mind control rays out, isn't it, free-thinker?
>>64205154
Cameron took risks with everything but the plot.
In the wrong hands, it could easily have bombed.
Without Cameron's talent and nous, Avatar easily becomes John Carter.
>>64205453
>>64205507
He is right though. But then again, you probably like the over-marketed capeshit.
>>64205069
butthurt disney fans are the best
btw it's not impossible to make a great movie out of commercial material. pic related
Pic related is Star Wars.
Pew-pew action lightsaber demographic pandering is not.
>>64205525
Shame Johm Carter was better than Avatar
>>64205490
But their expectations are not unreasonable. They can't simply claim audience fatigue or something when it was beaten by Furious 7. There will be changes over Whedon's failure (probably ever more studio control).
>"The issue is whether "The Force Awakens" deserves to be considered as a movie, because it's not. It's the anchoring element of a vast commercial program, painstakingly factory-made for maximal audience appeal, which means maximal inoffensiveness."
This reads like a 16-year-old Marxist first encounter with Hollywood
>>64205525
How is Avatar a risk save it's a new IP? Its plot is so safe and harmless. Its computer graphics are so deliberate and push exactly the right buttons for a mass audience. Even the music is careful to be just the right amount of bland. While it's true that Avatar could've bombed, it doesn't say much since even generic movies bomb.
>>64205546
If they charge money for it, it's a product. This entire forum is dedicated to products that corporations charge you money to see. To pretend you're above this transaction is the height of autism.
>>64205120
Agreed. The character did not feel like Han Solo. Bringing back any of them except for Luke Skywalker was a mistake
>>64205022
I'm not sure if it's been commercialized more than any other sequel or sequelprequel, but the reviewers comments about the same things being rehashed, and much of the originality being missing, are entirely valid. Hopefully this is a catch-up episode, and Rian will do a very fresh new vision for VIII. The difficulty of making something like VII shouldn't be understated, however. It was a very likeable movie and disappointed the least people.
>>64205592
No it doesn't because Hollywood hasn't always operated this way. It's only the past years it has gotten really bad.
>>64204663
>he didn't learn how to avoid run-on sentences in grade 2 english
The benefits of a coca-cola classical education.
lol what a bunch of pseudo intellectual bullshit r. ITS NOT A MOVIE BECAUSE THEYRE GONNA MAKE A BUNCH OF SEQUELS!!!! So Episode 4 isn't a movie either right? Because it was always gonna be a trilogy. 5 isn't a movie either since with the runaway success of 4 Lucas was going to make it exploitable as possible.
How does nothing happen in the movie? Introduced to the new players on the galactic stage, a major character is killed off, a stormtrooper breaks his programming, relationships are established etc
>>64205605
>he didn't understand the review
Sad desu
>>64205605
The poster you tipped your fedora at said heavy marketing was getting the best of people and created a peer pressure mentality which explains capeshit success. And he's absolutely right about that. If it wasn't true, studios wouldn't spend more money advertising their movies as they do making them. A transaction isn't as innocent and fair as you always think.
I clicked the link expecting actual film criticism
>>64205490
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJOjTNuuEVw
Breaking 1 billion and having a 200+ million dollar budget is nothing to fret about these days, unfortunately, because it's typical blockbuster numbers. I'm sure they, like other studios, want to topple Titanic and Avatar and make well over 2 billion at the box office. It's clearly seen in the case of TFA: I'm sure they spent over 200 billion to make the movie and had an aggressive marketing campaign. Star Wars fucking everywhere. The $4 billion used to buy Lucasfilm has already been recovered thanks to merchandise.
>>64205669
I think you should establish a relationship between a bullet and the back of your throat, anon
>>64205669
ANH feels like a complete movie. TFA feels like a glorified teaser into the "Star Wars Universe". Spread your ass cheeks and open your wallets.
>>64205647
>Sticking to rules that were enforced in middle school to guide your prose
Lol, fags
>>64205722
Kek
>>64205706
We're seeing less movies but fewer, high-budget bets instead. This is how you can tell stagnation is starting to hit bad. The modern culture of everyone pretending to be a nerd while digesting the most shallow and childish of movies doesn't help either.
>>64205592
DUDE CAPITALISM LMAO
I'll be glad when your job is replaced by a robot you fucking queer.
>>64205575
Um, yeah, you're absolutely right.
When the first movie was released, the immediate predecessors were 2001, Silent Running. The feel of the first movie was that of a kid in a desolate wasteland who is trying to improve his existence beyond "the townies". As the third movie came out, it became very congested and incestuous. The thrill had died with the usual monkey business.
In this respect, The Last Starfighter, though highly derivative, is the actual follow up to the original, and only, Star Wars.
>>64205669
Someone needs to break your programming with a hammer.
>>64205762
Nice post, Redditor.
>>64205575
It makes me wonder if the people that like TFA liked A New Hope and Empire.
Because the two best Star Wars movies weren't action movies. JJ and Disney took a generic sci-fi action movie and plastered Star Wars iconography all over it.
Is it just a reflection of modern audiences that TFA is "10/10 fucking epic bro"?
>>64205763
Lucas and Spielberg were right. This shit isn't going to last long. Doomsday will hit Hollywood in a matter of years. I doubt Lucas's $50 dollar movie tickets will occur, but they're $23.50 around me (if you want the super deluxe Real 3D IMAX experience!)
>>64205769
It's sad that people fail to understand the truths this man is preaching. But of course it's the same people who think vii is a real Star Wars movie.
The reviewer did a mistake by not mentioning the fact that all of Lucas films were original content, not recycled. And that although he took advantage of merchandising rights, it was never on a scale anywhere close to what Disney is doing.
You can just feel the stupidity emanating from every reply that disagrees with based Hiltzik. Tis a thing of beauty
>I dislike The Force Awakens
>>64203983
Mark my words /tv/, more reviews like this will come once the hype tidal wave calms down, the patrician critics will call TFA out for the flick that it is
>>64205869
>It makes me wonder if the people that like TFA liked A New Hope and Empire.
Of course not. They like TFA because it's the cool thing to do. The same way they like whatever fashion trend because it's the cool thing to do. These people are easy to manipulate and Hollywood figured it out long before we did. Establish a sense of peer pressue to watch the next cultural event, and suddenly you have everyone sucking your cock whether they like it or not.
>>64205937
Disney PR plz go
>>64204573
what can you expect of those 2c per post shills
>>64205942
It's a shame they will come here too late. The damage is already done. it already broke all records. Normies think it's a masterpiece because the IMDB and RT score is high. The game is rigged.
>>64205937
>The Force Awakens was good
>>64205824
>kek
>redditor
>>64205669
ANH is a stand alone movie in its own right.
TFA isn't. It's a two hour long "set up" for the twelve movies to come.
>>64204573
>Hiltzik is a Pulitzer Prize winner
So was Roger Plebert.
>>64205937
demonstrating >>64205898
pottery, I say!
I agree with it.
The plot is a mirror of Ep. 1 and it's full of box ticking.
Rey has no personality, she's a walking set of perfect skills because she has to be a perfect female role model. For all the Mary Sue stuff, I'm surprised that no one picked up on the fact that she basically rescued her self and ended up saving her rescuer too (can't have a damsel in distress).
Han was in there to pass the torch, Leia was in there to... be able to say she's in the film. Film was filled with cameos (even the Wilhelm scream).
Ep 4-6 worked because you had a constant sense of wonder and were always being introduced to things you'd never seen before.
Ep 7 has you seeing everything you've seen before again.
>>64204573
>Beat Reporting Pulitzer Prize
Lol. Might as well give out a Pulitzer for best cuckold.
>Watching "The Force Awakens," I felt as though I was being shown a trailer for the next four movies in the series. Except that trailers aren't normally two hours long and you don't have to pay $12.50 to see them.
>"The Force Awakens" will reinforce even more strongly a blockbuster, sequel-oriented style of moviemaking and marketing that has sapped Hollywood of its creative energies. Why be creative when that will merely interfere with merchandising, and when recycling is more dependably profitable?
>One can envision Hollywood eventually turning out only two products: "Star Wars" movies and James Bond movies, each periodically "rebooted" for a new generation of customers by casting the latest new young stars in new costumes facing the same old perils and uttering the same old quips, with every other vestige of creative originality relegated to the void and forgotten.
Fuckin' eh. This guy said it perfectly. I'm glad someone has the guts to see this shit for what it is.
>>64206003
>>64205937
samefag
Even as a pure copypaste, it didn't feel Star Wars. Maybe because Star Wars is defined by the experience of something new. Of entering a new world that hits you with imaginative world-building. TFA, being an ANH-copycat cannot be a Star Wars movie out of this principle. Lucas understood this. He could've played it safe with the prequels but playing it safe isn't what Star Wars is about. It's about a new experience. In many ways, the studio system that Disney has set up is a direct paradox to what Star Wars should be.
>>64205869
I've watched ANH and Empire effectively for the first time a month ago and I loved them. I also really enjoyed TFA. They're all adventure movies at heart, though TFA mixes in more action and humor. Star Wars for me is about the characters and their dynamics and growth via adventures and conflict, if I didn't relate to Luke as a protagonist, or didn't think Han was cool, or Leia was a bad chick, I wouldn't have given two shits about this half-assed pastiche setting. TFA had good characters I'd love to see again, so it's a good addition to the Star Wars series to me.
>>64204663
Are you in the 5th grade? Because starting a sentence with "But" or even "Because" is common when writing for adults. if you've ever read a "book" or "novel" you would know this.
The rule is taught to children and idiots so they can make themselves understood on a basic level without creating a series of disjointed sentence fragments (which is what they naturally prefer) and for the benefit of others who have to read what they write and critique the factual reportage or opinion. It is a stylistic crutch rule for semi-literate Geny Y types.
>>64206011
>reaction image
>kek
>Not a Redditor
Is your post quota done for the day?
>>64205986
Generally speaking, it takes a while but the real opinions on films do surface a few years down the line.
Titanic was the best film ever at launch. Now? It's a terrible cliched love story with a good disaster film for the last 45 minutes.
Avatar? Mediocre dances with wolves
>>64205871
I fucking hope it collapses in on itself. But it won't.
>>64206025
>Ep 4-6 worked because you had a constant sense of wonder and were always being introduced to things you'd never seen before.
>constant sense of wonder
>being introduced to things you'd never seen before
>6
>>64205818
>>64205722
>>64205712
Can't even think of a decent reply to my arguments = cucked
>>64206013
How is it not a stand alone movie? You can watch TFA and understand everything that is happening, it has a clear beginning middle and end and a hook to get to you to see the sequel. The characters are interesting and likeable, the Kylo is intimidating until you see him throw his tantrums and realize that he's just a kid playing at "bad guy" which is the entire point of his character...the stakes aren't real but they aren't real in literally any Star Wars movies
You guys just hate it because it's popular basically
>>64206095
>Reaction image
>Image board
kill yourself
>>64206105
But those movies are remembered for being hot shit. Simply because of the massive word of mouth at the opening month. What comes later doesn't really matter. Not to the studios and not to the mass audience.
>>64204663
Seems you're the one that hasn't received an education past 3rd grade, friend. Arbitrary rules like "don't start a sentence with the word 'but'" don't apply in the real world.
>>64206031
That said, I don't think the new bonds are bad at all, they're examples of modern updates done correctly (ignoring Question of Sport which tried to copy Borne and failed horribly)
>>64206086
This is literally what the post-millennial, somebody who was born after the year 2000 in the era of the Patriot Act, Homeland Security, Common Core and other elements introduced by the U.S. Government to reduce its population to subservient idiots, believes.
>>64204932
whats up with people that are always showing their front teeth?
is that like the product of a fucked up mutant jaw or never taking wisdom teeth out?
What if Disney buys whole of Hollywood?
>>64203983
>business columnist is a commie
Why is this allowed in America?
>>64206137
>You guys just hate it because it's popular basically
You ignored everything about this thread. I guess it's easier to just ignore everything when you're being BTFO so hard that your only counter-reply is this asinine asspull. How much is Disney paying you per post?
>>64206025
>Ep 4-6 worked because you had a constant sense of wonder and were always being introduced to things you'd never seen before.
It's time to give the prequels credit, because they did this exact same thing as well. It's why people kept going to the theaters, they were spectacles unlike anything seen on film before.
If you can't give the prequels credit for this, then I guess you prefer the new Hollywood/Disney machine formulaic cinematic universe bullshit instead. That is why it's happening, after all.
>>64203983
TL;DR
>Hollywood is not longer about the art, it's all about making that $$$.
>TFA is well made, polished piece of unoriginality.
>TFA and other blockbuster hollywood movies are setting the trend for Hollywood that creativity is no longer needed
>Drones will always make them money by buying them toys/shirts/etc etc.
>>64206137
We hate it because it's a cynical toy commercial with no regard for world building.
We hate you because you took a wrong turn and ended up here on your way to reddit.
>>64206193
The Jews. And now he's trying to destroy classic American cinema like Star Wars. Truly disgusting.
>>64206198
No, I actually posted my feelings on why it's a good movie and the people who responded just said "LOL LOOK AT THIS GUY" because they're so cucked by the writer of this article and the fact that he hates the movie that they'll sop up anything he says as gospel without actually thinking about it
>>64206170
Imagine the populace in 2050
>>64206137
>TFA
>standalone
You're fucking dumb. REAL dumb.
>>64206133
The emperor was menacing as fuck
Plus Jabba's palace.
>>64206251
Your feelings are dumb and inaccurate. Read the article again.
>>64206233
The entire Star Wars FRANCHISE is about selling toys. How do you not see that?
>>64206260
Literally no argument = KEKED
>>64206137
Please tell me that this was written by some guy on Disney's payroll
>>64206258
I don't want to. I really don't want to. You can't make me.
>>64206161
And so, anon received a lesson that a bunch of grammar rules he learnt at school are bullshit.fucking I before E
>>64206137
TFA would be a shit movie full of unexplained plot holes if we didn't know that there's going to be sequels to explain shit.
>>64206054
This anon gets it
>>64206281
>calls others cucked
>too stupid to realize the only one who is cucked is him
I hope your kids wind up disney prostitutes to pay for your disgusting meme movie addiction.
>>64206177
Mediocre acting lessons.
Your mouth is your most expressive part of the face so if you wide it or make it bigger, you can show emotion more easily.
Although in Rey's case she just seems to have a half scowl the whole film.
>>64206281
Argument isn't necessary though, because the movie speaks for itself.
There has never been a Star Wars movie end on a complete cliffhanger/teaser like the way luke wasn't introduced until the final scene.
>>64206285
These assholes have been here since the second trailer was released and it's the vitriolic "beat em down until they stop posting" thug tactics.
No better than niggers to be honest family.
Here is another based review, by the pope himself
>The review slams the film as “more reboot than sequel,” saying “not a classy reboot however, like Nolan's Batman, but an update twisted to suit today's tastes and a public more accustomed to sitting in front of a computer than in a cinema."
> "The character who needs to substitute the emperor Palpatine as the incarnation of supreme evil represents the most serious defect of the film," the paper said. "Without revealing anything about the character, all we will say is that it is the clumsiest and tackiest result you can obtain from computer graphics."
>>64206421
>yfw not enough naked younglings
>>64206228
Hollywood executives don't give two shits about character, story, or art making, for that matter. Lucas himself has personally stated that the executives are corporate goons set out to make X amount of dollars at the expense of storytelling because at the end of the day making a shit ton of $$$ means sequels! And the possibility of reboots!
Why bank on some meaningless movie when you can throw in gobs of money in already established IPs?
Corporations destroyed Hollywood.
>>64204663
May you should start doing it to, faggot.
>>64206228
>the art meme
Creator confirmed for trash
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4TnKjtVd-k
>>64206211
Eps 1-3 have solid plots and some great set pieces, let down by terrible writing and questionable direction (green screen everywhere, too much slapstick, bad fight choreography, in Ep 3's case, not understanding the importance of cooldown between action scenes).
>>64206141
>the Mr. Bean reaction image
>2015 almost 2016
>>64203983
The Force Awakens is the movie of the year.
>>64203983
What does Marvel have to do with JJ?
>>64206278
Literally no argument
>>64206285
No argument
>>64206332
So because it doesn't explain literally every single little thing that means that it's not a standalone movie? You do know there can be a sense of mystery about the movie's world at large which makes it seem like you're actually dropped into the setting vs. going out of its way to explain things that characters in the world would already know? It's world building which ironically a lot of people in this thread are saying it lacks.
>>64206356
No argument and you got buttflustered at "cuck". Get off 4chan newfag
>>64206400
This is what's happening
You: ITS BAD
Me: Its not because (reason)
You: WOW RETARD
You don't see the problem with this?
Only just now have you posted any kind of response to my posts besides being obviously mad (maybe not YOU particularly but the other anons). Your only major problem with the movie is that it ends on a cliffhanger? That's really weak but I guess that's up to you, if you really hate cliffhangers that much. Personally it gives me something to look forward to
>>64206527
Operates under the same parent company
>>64206137
>How is it not a stand alone movie?
There are massive gaping holes in characterisation that can only be explained in sequels (this is bad story telling, even within the context of a saga)
The opening crawl describes the movie as the quest to find Luke. This is literally tacked on at the end of the movie, and he doesn't say a word because we'll have to wait two years for Ep8 for that.
Every established villain of the movie is still alive and out there. Finn is lying on a table. Rey is, presumably, just about to start her training.
TFA is the furthest thing from a complete film.
>>64206517
Ignore him. He just wants the last word so it makes it seem he won his epic shill battle on 4chan. When people quote you just for the sake of quoting you, there is no point in continuing the conversation. Disney shills do it a lot as means of devaluing actual criticism.
People need to be aware of the fact that Star Wars was never Hollywood.
Lucasfilm was an independent film company complete funded by Lucas himself (omg that toytic bastard how dare he).
Hell, Lucas was thrown out he directors guild and fined millions of dollars just to keep his credit-less, scrolling intros.
George Lucas was a Hollywood outsider. He is no jew. The jews(Spielberg) didn't even want to help when he decided to start the new trilogy.
Star Wars will never be the same, it will never be on the same grand scale again. Not for the right reasons anyway.
Guys,
Disney is a entertainment behemoth, their goal is to maximize profit. You will never get a complex Star Wars intrigue.
If you look at the top 10 all time grossing movies they all obviously go for the mass appeal following a specific formula.
The only way Star Wars could have been "bold" or brake the mold is if Lucas, who had the total control of the franchise with his production company decided to hand pick directors and gave them carte blanche on each movie. But no the dude was a narcissist child.
I mean if you think about it, it's insane how much control Lucas had. He had basically all the infrastructure except the distribution. I don't think any other man could have taken such high risks with a franchise and at the same time minimize the cost of a failure than him.
The dude had beaten hollywood, he had the infinite money making franchise and the liberty renew and remodel Star Wars by the episode.
>>64206186
we are going to become a BigBrotherchy ala THX1138
>>64206251
You like a bad movie. Accept it.
>>64206632
>who had the total control of the franchise with his production company decided to hand pick directors and gave them carte blanche on each movie.
Not possible. Lucas was locked out of many guilds. He wanted to do it for the prequels but wasn't allowed by the unions.
>>64206604
Well Spielberg couldn't help because he was a member of the DGA, but you're right otherwise.
>>64206546
I'm not saying cliffhangers are bad, but they have never been used at the end of a Star Wars film. It felt like a gimmick. And that's because it was. Luke sky walker was made into a gimmick plot device instead of an actual character.
LUCAS IS A HACK
>>64205669
A bunch of non-characters are introduced with wooden performances all acting out an anemic retelling of a new hope with a different coat of paint and the emotional depth of a puddle.
Add in JJ's insipid cinematography, shaky cameras and hamfisted references to the previous trilogy and you have yourself a steaming hot corporate treat fit for mass consumption.
But surely the sequels will fix everything, right? The characters aren't shoddily written, the sequels will explain why they may appear to be. It's not just a starved masquerade of what came before in an attempt to sell tickets and merchandise, the sequels will tell you why.
You and this movie deserve eachother.
>>64206679
That actually really makes me feel bad for him. I don't think there's any doubt that George Lucas truly cares about the integrity of Star Wars. He truly wanted to tell a story, but in the case of the prequels, he had to get down and direct them himself, which resulted in a poorly executed mess.
>>64206753
Nice meme, Mike.
But you've already maxed out your monthly shill payments. Come back in January.
>>64206679
>The prequels could've been good if it weren't for Hollywood guild autism
>>64206825
He sold his integrity for 4 billion dollars. Fuck him. He's not an artist, he's a fraud.
>>64206583
>There are massive gaping holes in characterisation that can only be explained in sequels (this is bad story telling, even within the context of a saga)
World building. I don't see how in the context of a saga, leaving some of your characters mysteries unsolved is a bad thing. It means that you learn more and more about them and they'll have more depth in newer movies vs being the same character the entire time.
>The opening crawl describes the movie as the quest to find Luke. This is literally tacked on at the end of the movie, and he doesn't say a word because we'll have to wait two years for Ep8 for that
The entire main plotline was about getting the map to find Luke. Rey and Finn are both excited to find Luke and Han joins them and the Resistance because of it. Poe was captured because he had the map. Kylo was obsessed with finding it.
>Every established villain of the movie is still alive and out there. Finn is lying on a table. Rey is, presumably, just about to start her training.
True
>TFA is the furthest thing from a complete film.
Fair enough, I was wrong in saying that but I still think that it's a great film and just because it's part 1 doesn't mean that it's bad
>>64206682
>>64206679
I did not know this.
Makes even more sense. The Jews hated Lucas because he had them beat at their own game.
Not only that, but he was much more successful at it. It's a damn shame he let the criticism and hatred (thanks to more jews in the media) get to him, and make him say fuck it and sell it all.
>>64206730
Yeah, in this movie he wasn't a featured character. But just because no Star Wars movie has ended on a cliffhanger doesnt mean that's an automatically bad thing. The article lambasts the movie for being too much like othe rStar Wars movies, it does something different, and then you bash it for that too?
>>64206772
The characters are good. The performances are good. It had more depth than Episode IV. Claiming it uses shaky cam tells me you don't know what the words you use mean.
>>64206825
>>64206679
That's something normies and RLM followers will never understand, sadly. Lucas wanted to do everything himself, but he couldn't look at Hollywood because he wasn't a member of any guild and hated unions due to the horrible experience he faced while filming ANH in London.
>>64203983
>Hiltzik
>literally got fired for samefagging
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/20/AR2006042002375.html
>>64206546
>So because it doesn't explain literally every single little thing that means that it's not a standalone movie? You do know there can be a sense of mystery
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
this is top shilling!
How about next time you're in a restaurant, I'll serve you an empty plate.
Then when you complain there's no food, I'll explain that it adds to mystery and the allure of what eating the food might be like.
Fucking retard.
>>64206829
LUCAS IS A HACK
>>64206730
It's not a cliffhanger.
The movie begins with "Luke Skywalker is missing!"
It ends with Luke Skywalker being found.
>>64206834
You mean jews. The same jews who are now celebrating their victory by whoring out Star Wars on unprecedented levels
>>64206965
Eating at a resturaunt is nothing like watching a movie. That's such a faulty analogy I'm not even going to entertain your stupid train of thought
>>64203983
>It's the anchoring element of a vast commercial program
No shit, Sherlock. It's still a movie, you dumbfuck.
>>64206604
Spielberg accepted to direct Ep6, but since Lucas quit DGA, he cant choose him.
By mid 90´s Spielberg was trying to keep Amblin alive and making the future arrangements for Dreamworks. Its not like he was free to help Lucas.
Lucas had a lot of friends in Hollywood, but is HIM who didnt like to be involved with the system.
>>64206825
Yes, he actually cared a great deal about telling a story and taking a risk. There is too much disinformation on the Internet about him. The Plinkett reviews didn't help much. It worked in the OT because he surrounded himself by top talent. It didnt' work for the prequels since all the talent was locked away from him. Even his good friend Spielberg was legally locked out of helping. So he took the monstrous task of both writing and directing three big Star Wars movies. There's a reason why they didn't do this for the OT.
http://www.ew.com/article/2015/11/20/george-lucas-star-wars-force-awakens-breakup
>“The issue was, ultimately, they looked at the stories and they said, ‘We want to make something for the fans,’” he told CBS. “So, I said, all I want to do is tell a story of what happened – it started here and went there. It’s all about generations, and issues of fathers and sons and grandfathers. It’s a family soap opera.”
I think Lucas' greatest mistake was selling Star Wars. It's in the wrong hands now. Disney didn't need even more power. This will ultimately harm the medium Lucas helped build.
>>64206920
But it's for the wrong reasons.
Search your feelings anon.
>>64206930
>The characters are good. The performances are good. It had more depth than Episode IV.
Now THIS is shilling
>>64207009
The cliffhanger comes in - what is Luke's deal? He shows up four seconds before the end of the movie and we don't encounter him at all when the whole movie was building towards finding him. Arent you curious as to what he has to say? What kind of wisdom he has to impart to Rey and how he will train her?
>>64207009
What a c.u.c.k character, not a single line was given to him in the entire movie, yet he was the nucleus, right? That is the definition of a c.u.c.k, everyone gets fed on your behalf, except you.
>>64206864
When watching a movie, the fewest times we have to ask ourselves "how does this character know this?" or "how did this character manage this?", the better the execution of that character.
It's symptomatic of current movie/audience culture that for some reason makes it ok for movies to no longer be complete stories in their own right. People turn up to cinemas these days to watch "Part 1" of movies which really only amount to trailers for sequels.
Cliff hangers are fine. Character expansion is fine. Gaping characterisation holes are not. People have genuinely posted here that they'll wait two years to see if the characters in THIS movie were done well. That's moronic.
>>64207019
How so? You're providing a service that people pay good money for.
Short changing makes you a jew, which you probably are in real life too since you work for Disney.
Poor Walt, he deserved better.
>>64207099
He's the mcguffin. He's what everyone is seeking.
>>64206930
>The characters were good
Lovely argument. Let's just assume one-dimensional cardboard cutouts are good characters in the world you live in and we'll leave it at that.
>The performances were good
Two, maybe three of the main cast didn't phone in their performances.
>It had more depth than Episode IV
A laughably outrageous claim, given that it was so desperate to emulate everything that Episode IV was. None of the wonder or imagination was there, it was a cash cow genetically engineered in a corporate board room.
>Claiming it use shaky cam
JJ characteristically uses a very erratic camera style in action scenes which is very jarring anaesthetic to watch. You'd have noticed this if you knew anything about cinema.
I appreciate you wanting to defend your new sweetheart but it's nothing to write home about.
>>64207077
Episode IV was an expertely executed sci-fi pastiche fanfiction for 13-year-old boys. I love it but if you think it's deep you're probably not old enough to drive.
>>64207073
>I think Lucas' greatest mistake was selling Star Wars. It's in the wrong hands now. Disney didn't need even more power. This will ultimately harm the medium Lucas helped build.
I've been saying that since 2012. If anything, give it to your future children.
>>64206935
Lucas wanted to do the prequels himself.
He could move the production to france, new zeland or any other country. He was convinced that he could do a good work.
>>64204931
>Sure youre entertained while watching it.
I wasn't
I kept wondering when it was going to get good the whole time
and then it ended.
I've never seen anyone so defiantly and vehemently defend such a shitty movie on this board, and I've seen some grade A autism.
Fucking Abatap doesn't have shit on these guys.
>>64207086
>>64207099
>A cliffhanger or cliffhanger ending is a plot device in fiction which features a main character in a precarious or difficult dilemma, or confronted with a shocking revelation at the end of an episode of serialized fiction.
Nothing like that happened.
>>64206935
I dream about Lucas pulling a Trumbo and hire screenwriters under the table for his movies.
>>64207155
What do we call fanfiction of a fanfiction, then?
Since that is, inarguably, what VII is.
>>64207073
>“The issue was, ultimately, they looked at the stories and they said, ‘We want to make something for the fans,’” he told CBS. “So, I said, all I want to do is tell a story of what happened – it started here and went there. It’s all about generations, and issues of fathers and sons and grandfathers. It’s a family soap opera.”
...and that's when Lucas suddenly realizing that selling Star Wars was a mistake.
>>64205120
well no one in the movie gave a shit either
>>64206996
Not like SW haves a lot in common with LoA or Dune.
>>64204439
I don't think you quite understand.
It's not bad because it makes money.
It makes money because it's bad.
This is the reality we live in.
>>64207171
Or just about anyone that isn't part of this massive conglomerate that wants to turn movies into McDonald's meals. I don't understand why he did it. He doesn't give much shit about money. Otherwise he would've kept milking Star Wars after ROTS. I think it's him just growing tired of being the source of so much vitriol that he decided to give the fans what they want and that is these fanservice movies that will come out on a yearly basis. Maybe he's trying to prove a point. Because by the time Disney is done with Star Wars, everyone is going to be sick and tired of the IP.
>>64207219
And now we are stuck with fanfic tier garbage that's being made up as they go.
Reading about jj brainstorming ideas is cringeworthy
>>64207244
We should start a studio power ranking that determines which studio holds its directors, writers, and unions by the balls and never lets go.
Disney will be #1, of course.
JUST TURN YOUR BRAIN OFF
ALL IS BLISSFUL WHEN YOU STOP THINKING
>>64207075
I disagree, I enjoyed the cliffhanger and I"m excited to see Luke's role in the next film.
>>64207106
>People turn up to cinemas these days to watch "Part 1" of movies which really only amount to trailers for sequels.
Only for comic book movies and movies like Star Wars, the thing that brings people to watch movies like these are beacuse they already love the characters or the universe. They just want to see the people they love in the place they love doing cool things, and that doesn't mean that the worlds or characters can't also grow along the way.
I'm not sure that asking questions about a character in that manner - how did they know this or how did they do this - in a saga like Star Wars is necessarily an automatically bad thing. I think that providing enough answers to satsify you for now while stringing you along to have more to answer is a decent enough method. The only questions I can really think of for Rey is force-sensitive stuff which will certainly be explained in the next movie and most people can probably work out on their own, because of the depth of the universe, that she has a high midichlorian count or is the daughter of Luke or in that family tree
>>64207136
Okay, getting a masaage is apparently the same thing as buying a car, according to you. It's a logical fallacy, you're just an idiot or trolling
>>64207320
JJ isn't a creator. He's a market analyst. He's a very good market analyst but that doesn't make him a creator.
>>64204663
That's a stylistic convention teachers started promoting because students were overusing it as an opener for sentences. Used sparingly, a 'but' can grab the reader's attention when you're trying to make a strong point.
Notwithstanding his cinematic acumen Hiltzik is an untrustworthy collectivist douchebag. He's never seen a tax hike he never liked, and is a fervent worshiper at the feet of Paul Krugman. To make it worse, in 2006, the L.A. Times suspended him for indulging in a round of sockpuppetry to bolster his political "arguments." I wouldn't trust anything this guy said if his tongue was stamped and notarized. His staying at the Times just shows how low they've sunk.
>>64203983
DISNEY BTFO
>>64207205
Alright, it's not a cliffhanger then. I don't really care about the semantics of the ending I was more just arguing that it was a good ending
>>64203983
>painstakingly factory-made for maximal audience appeal
what, you mean Avatar?
Corporate art, man.
>>64207205
>being this retarded
Just go watch Avengers 7 or some other no-brainer
>>64203983
WE WUZ STAA WAAZ XD
>>64207354
>>64203983
>The issue is whether "The Force Awakens" deserves to be considered as a movie, because it's not.
Stopped reading there.
You can complain about considering it art or not, or even a good movie or a bad movie.
But when you start with: "I don't know the definition of what a 'movie' means." You've basically become Armond White tier, minus the charm and wit.
Based Lucas was the good guy all along.
>>64207320
>Lucas never made up things on the go
>>64207356
top cuck
>>64207277
Not to get all personal, but does his powerful wife have anything to do with it? Seeing that Lucas, strangely, is focusing more on his legacy, which is giant museum filled with his art that he kept in Skywalker Ranch.
Even though that Lucas' legacy is truly Star Wars.
>>64207403
He mentions Avatar a few paragraphs down actually.
>>64207277
It really disgusts me when I see anything about the "Marvel Cinematic Universe." Films should not be made just to tie a franchise together. It's so weird seeing films being pushed out under a "phase." I've never seen anything like it before.
>>64207343
order is wrong you fuckikng prole
>it's not good
>therefore it's not a movie
>implying movie is a positive term
>>64207277
But why Disney? Why not Fox, which enabled him to create Star Wars in the first place?
>>64207489
I knew it had gone overboard when I was watching Avengers and the entire movie felt like a commercial for the next one. It's no longer about stories. It's about introducing just the right elements to have the consumers consumer MORE and MORE. Like a drug. Don't give too much. Give just enough so they'll crave more.
>>64207151
>Let's just assume one-dimensional cardboard cutouts are good characters
What is Finn a cardboard cutout of, and Kylo Ren?
>Two, maybe three
Everyone except Fischer delivered.
>A laughably outrageous claim, given that it was so desperate to emulate everything that Episode IV was.
You don't understand what you saw. It repurposes elements from the OT(not just Episode IV as your memes told you) to tell its own story.
>You'd have noticed this if you knew anything about cinema.
If you knew anything about cinema you'd know that it's one of the most commonly misapplied critiques. There is no shaky cam in Episode VII as the term is used by people working in the industry.
>I appreciate you wanting to defend
You trying really hard to act condescending after falling on your ass through like four straight arguments is pretty funny.
>>64207343
>JUST TURN YOUR BRAIN OFF
Man, I only just realised that people have said this to me all my life, verbatim and without a hint of sarcasm.
Let that sink in.
>>64206442
>not enough sheev.
>>64207489
I thought it was very strange too when I first saw "Phase 2" references right around the time Avengers came out in 2012. Makes the movies feel more like a product than a piece of art, with Disney opening your mouth and saying "here have some more shit."
>>64207492
That's not what he said at all. He basically said that the movie is an ad for Disney's Star Wars
>>64207461
well shit
>>64207425
dawwww
>>64203983
TFA is the greatest movie of the century so far.
And I don't care what anyone else says.
I've seen it 8 times so far and will probably watch it 100 more times this year alone.
BB8, Rey and Finn are just as good as Luke, Han, Leia, Chewy, R2 and 3PO.
I don't care what anyone else says. People just like to put things down.
I can't wait for 8!!!
Mostly agree but bringing up movies like Chinatown is stupid. Star Wars is hardly going to try breaking new ground by exploring adult themes.
>>64207671
Good goy
>>64207725
I dunno, Empire was pretty grim.
>negative review
>published on the 28th December
gee, I wonder what could have happened here
I think Kylo is actually a fairly inventive villain for the series, and Rey has quite a few possibilities as well. I love Poe.
We knew even back in the 90's that Episode VII was going to have a group of Vader fans who decide to clone him. So that wasn't a disappointment in any way. How will Kylo's react when he gets his wish, that's what I want to know.
>>64207671
great goy
>>64207770
If you knew George Lucas, then you would've known that he had no plans for a sequel trilogy after he began work on the prequels. There's about 43242 interviews with him saying "no!" but then he sold Lucasfilm and began to shill for Disney.
>>64207770
>We knew even back in the 90's that Episode VII was going to have a group of Vader fans who decide to clone him
How did "we" know that
>>64207763
He writes on business usually so I can see why it came out at an unusual time
>>64207244
This is the life we chose, the life we lead. And there is only one guarantee: none of us will see heaven.
Not going to lie, this thread was very refreshing and productive, outside of the typical:
>TFA SUCKS!
>NO YOU SUCK, YOU STUPID FACE!
threads that metabolize worse than any form of cancer here on /tv/
https://vimeo.com/112655231
>>64207410
Learn the meaning of a word before using it, please.
>>64207402
I thought it was a good ending that set the scene for the next Star Wars movie.
It just wasn't a cliffhanger.
Fucking Disney,
they are going to hire yes men directors and the only interesting thing will see in the future is the directory's trademark camera work sprinkled here and there on the franchise.
Now imaging what could have been episodes directed by Aronofsky, Refn, Villeneuve, Fincher, Inarritu or del Toro.
>>64208126
>Now imaging what could have been episodes directed by Aronofsky, Refn, Villeneuve, Fincher, Inarritu or del Toro.
Each episode would be an experiment of its own. What a waste. Lucas fucked up selling it to this creativity poison.
>>64208126
>Now imaging what could have been episodes directed by Aronofsky, Refn, Villeneuve, Fincher, Inarritu or del Toro.
Some SW fans have a really delusional sense of gravitas towards the SW universe.
It was always schlocky, fun entertainment.
>>64208126
By how Del Taco has been defending MaRey Sue I wouldn't be surprised if he desperately wants a job offer from Disney, they might give him one too if he manages to make a movie that isn't a bomb
>>64207229
Star Wars has a truckload in common with Dune.
>>64207346
>The only questions I can really think of for Rey is force-sensitive stuff which will certainly be explained in the next movie and most people can probably work out on their own, because of the depth of the universe, that she has a high midichlorian count or is the daughter of Luke or in that family tree
Translation: These plot points that make no sense within the context of this one film will be explained in the sequels.
>>64208210
>It was always schlocky, fun entertainment.
Yeah, but this wasn't schlocky fun entertainment. Throughout the entire movie I felt like I have watched this exact movie already.
They have blown up three fucking death stars now, it is getting painfully old. What are they going to do for 8 and 9? Blow up two more?
I'm just curious how set/character design is going to fluctuate with each director or if Disney will stunt any idea outside of the way it was presented in this film
Could you imagine Del toro's Star Wars?
>>64203983
Watched it with my wife's boyfriend it wasn't that bad tbqh
>>64208024
u mad, fucking no-brainer?
>>64203983
>Michael Hiltzik fired due to sockpuppeting
TFW all of these anti-TFA threads are Hiltzik posting
>>64207346
>The only questions I can really think of for Rey is force-sensitive stuff which will certainly be explained in the next movie and most people can probably work out on their own, because of the depth of the universe, that she has a high midichlorian count or is the daughter of Luke or in that family tree
So you aren't allowed to critique movies that are part of a trilogy series?
Is that an excuse for everything story related? Are you never allowed to say that the story is shit and the characters are shit because they might suddenly explain everything in the last movie?
What horseshit is that?
>>64208210
>It was always schlocky, fun entertainment.
This is what normies believe, but even Lucas himself said that Star Wars was about family and the "passing of the torch" from father to son. It's not about spaceships and explosions. That's just the backdrop/concept. What really matters are the characters
>>64203983
>pacing
This movie hardly had as good of pacing as episode 4. TFA was non-stop action and the whole movie felt like one big battle.
>>64203983
More like Star Were-s, amirite?
>>64208282
I like a lot of his films , but I just dont think star wars is something he could do right.
>>64208288
Merely making a suggestion.
You are, of course, free to continue misusing any terms you want.
>>64208282
The specific directors won't change much. They're all glorified Disney puppets.
>>64205111
>while everyone could see TFA would be a guaranteed hit.
There's no such thing. Really, there isn't. If the movie wasn't genuinely enjoyable, if it wasn't genuinely pleasing audiences, it wouldn't have staying power at the box office (not that box office runs are long these days, "staying power" is measured in weeks rather than months). Plenty of eagerly anticipated movies have had a big opening and then a sudden drop, even over opening weekend alone but especially by the second weekend, because people didn't like them and didn't come back for repeat viewings. Look at Age of Ultron - it was expected to be the movie of the summer, but it left people feeling a bit underwhelmed and faded fast from the box office. It did well enough because it had a strong opening, but not the numbers they were hoping for, and failed to achieve the long run of its predecessor.
>>64207671
It's hard to tell what's satire anymore. But I'll guess this is. Fanboys literally liked this movie out of brand loyalty. That's why Disney coughed up so much for it.
>>64208210
Schlock was the 70s, the game has changed.
I really believed if SW was in the hands of those directors you would elevate the artistic value of all future blockbusters.
Going full neckbeard here but still.
>>64208450
Joe Sweden underestimated his feminist powers.
>>64208481
Am I right, ladies?
>>64208326
I'm not saying you can't critique the story or the characters at all. I'm saying those are the only character questions I could really think of, you can certainly criticize them but you and I both know that it's not like it'll be some forever unexplained mystery, we can already pretty much tell what the explanations will be based on our current knowledge of the universe.
I think it's kind of shallow to say that TFA is a bad movie because it's not explained how Rey is so powerful in the force, but if thats the main reason you dislike it then I can't really argue any point that would change your mind
>>64204490
But its only okay when James Cameron does it?
