Now that you've actually seen Star Wars: The Force Awakens, what do you think of Finn as a character?
I haven't seen Spaceballs 2: The Quest for More Money though
I like him. Most developed character other than Kylo.
Only new character that was both likable and interesting (Poe and TR-8R are only likable).
>>64174517>>64174576
this
his jokes were good, too.
>why are you doing that with your chin?
>sanitation
>we'll just use the force
he is me and my wife's son favourite character!
Just another rehash of a slave running away from his owner.
Star Wars Episode VII: Prep of the Bull
>>64174576
this, he was a little too childish once or twice but otherwise was probably the best character
i liked him.
second best character after kylo
Hell of a lot better than Rey.
I was fine with him deciding to run away from the Order at the very beginning but he should've had a much tougher time adapting to the outside world considering he's been indoctrinated in a cult for his entire life. He seemed like just a normal guy.
>>64174402
He was okay.
He was a solid supporting character. Cowardly by nature but courageous when the situation called for it. He struggled with every fight but managed to survive through luck and a lot of effort. Way more well-rounded and interesting than the mary sue who could out-pilot the pilots, out-fight the fighters, and out-force a sith.
>>64174775
He never had to leave his element, the whole movie he was either being ordered around or in combat, didn't have to adapt to anything
>>64174621
subtle
He was a better protag than MaRey sue.
he was the best new character
frankly he should have stayed with Poe...you know instead of MAKING THE CHARACTER DISAPPEAR FOR NO REASON JUST TO REAPPEAR LATER ON
if anything...if they wanted to get rid of Poe , the plot should have been Finn taking on Poe's name and pretending to be him (he was already pretending to be part of the rebellion).
Ideally...the film follows Poe and Finn being lethal weapon in Space. (maybe both of them try flirting with ray)
>>64174857
thats not true, though.
>>64175020
>Poe and Finn being lethal weapon in Space
perfect 10/10 cinema right here
>>64174402
Too non-serious and way too in live with Rey.
>>64174402
surprisingly good character.
rather him be a jedi than MaREY sue
>>64174402
Surprisingly good, had training in some things, didn't know what he was doing in other things, which made more sense than "I know how to fly a spaceship no ones ever been able to" Rey
>>64175145
love*
>I-I can't kill people! I must desert!
>2 minutes later
>WAAAAHOOOOOO TAKE THIS PEW PEW DIE DIE DID YOU SEEEE THAT??
>>64175147
>>64175155
>surprisingly good mind
Finn and Ben were the only characters with any kind of characterization, Poe was barely in the movie and Rey is perfect at everything she does so she doesn't need development.
>>64175020
I have a theory
Poe was supposed to be in the movie. Every scene where the cool crazy flight scene happens poe was piloting. something something seperate and then poe comes to save them in the x-wings. It didn't make sense for Rey or finn to pilot the falcon, and it didn't make sense for Poe to disappear and magically find a way back to the rebels
The only reason they took poe out was to have a side movie where we explore what Poe was doing so disney gets more money.
>>64174402
Boyega and Daisy are fucking great actors.
>>64175193
surprising because JJ literally pushes an affirmative action agenda and I thought he was added only for this reason.
good because he was a decent star wars character in a movie with otherwise shitty new characters
>>64175208
>side movie
It'll probably just be a book or a comic
>>64175191
This. His character wouldve been fine had he not been a stormtrooper. Since he was he shouldve been way more tormented than he was
>>64175208
Yeah that would make more sense, plus we could get a new two guys one girl dynamic like they had in the OT. They spent too much time shoe-horning old characters in.
>>64174402
I like him, far superior to Marey Sue
>>64175285
seriously, why was he so fucking gun ho about killing other storm troopers. why couldn't they make a storm trooper story where they're actually people inside. How the hell do you mess this up.
>>64174621
>me and my wife's son favourite character
my wife's son's and my favourite character
>>64175191
Yeah this bothered me. It would have been more interesting if he still was hesitant about taking life despite all these action scenes happening around him; I mean, his whole reason to escape was just to distance himself from killing.
He seems like he doesn't know whats going on, and that he only has a basic grasp of the 'real world' now that his link with the Empire collective has been severed.
He has only the basic knowledge of right and wrong, and he keeps trying to emotionally cling to who and whatever he can, and its interesting that they friendzoned him from Rey.
I was honestly thinking they'd go the cliche route and have him unconditonally fall in love with her, but instead she rejects him as she would a mentally slow character, because Finn is in fact emotionally stunted,
I'm looking forward to his character growth, and I hope they take thier time with his chracter, and don't just rush him into shit.
>>64175336
>my wife's son's and my favourite character
the son of my wife's and I's most favoritest character
Overall a good character, though a bit too joke-y. I thought his desertion from the First Order should have been handled with a bit more gravitas, instead of having him IMMEDIATELY shoot down ships, make lame jokes, and flirt with strange women. I do like that initially he's a big chickenshit that wants to run away from everything, but later decides to man up and do what needs to be done.
>>64175340
If anything why didn't he just fire some warning shots first. Why didn't he shoot their feet and tell them to back off.
jesus
>>64175340
>>64175380
It was an adventure movie you fucking autists. It's also difficult to refuse to kill out of principle as you're literally being shot at
>>64175191
His problem wasn't with killing. It was specifically with killing innocents. There's a difference between opening fire on unarmed villagers and their families and shooting down soldiers who are trying to kill you. Finn's specific words were "I won't do their dirty work for them," NOT "I am a pacifist and will not take up arms under any circumstances because I value human life too greatly to kill any person no matter what side they're on."
>>64175376
I hate this reddit style of humor that's in every movie now where characters have to make glib little quips about how self-aware they are of their situation.
>>64174402
He completely stole the show. Instant chemistry with whoever he interacted with
>>64174402
Endearing but inexplicable and undeveloped.
He is awfully perky and knowledgeable about the outside world for someone conditioned to military life since birth.
Almost as weakly writtten as Rey. Suddenly he wants to quit with no 9revious signs of hating it in his record. Poe trusts him instantly. Rey trusts him instantly. BB8 almost trusts him instantly. Keia and resistance of what take him at his word and mount anattack on mega deathstar trusting him instantly.
The guy is a fucking janitor stormtrooper with lots of knowledge of how the base works and how to take it down
What the living fuck?
>>64175372
no... you would not say
>it is I favourite
it is MY favourite
read a book
jesus christ
>>64175495
>hey my brothers I've literally known my entire life are shooting at me
>I've given up fighting and I'm trying my best to get away from it
>WOO DID YOU SEE THAT I JUST KILLED THEM!
No you're right, dumb fun.
>>64175520
Blame Joss.
>>64175341
>but instead she rejects him
If the novel is any indication this couldn't be further from the truth.
I am glad they didn't Anakin/Padme INSTANT LUV though
>>64175567
You're literally arguing the plausibility of a fairy tale with space wizards.
Pointless. Literally zero development.
Latter isn't his fault though, no one in the movie developed at all in any way save Han. Just poorly written in that regard.
Finn overall was pretty pointless to the movie though IMO. His defection should've been a bigger deal.
>>64174402
My favorite in the film. Pleasantly surprised at how likable and relatable he was. So it turns out skin color doesn't really matter in a fantasy film, who would have thought??
>>64175513
But that's bullshit because he obviously cared about his fellows, his first scene is him embracing a fallen trooper.
>>64175495
If you cant make a compelling story with the stormtrooper background dont give the character that background.His character wouldve been fine if he was just some random or some rebel. But no they tried to be cool and make him a stormtrooper but failed to make him a good character based around his background.
>>64175559
>>64175513
Are brainwashed child soldiers innocent? How are they responsible for their actions?
>>64174402
BUMBLING BETA KUCK
ALSO HOMO WANTS TO KNOW ABOUT XENO'S CUTE BOYFRIENDS
AND THEN FRIENDZONED WITH A KISS ON THE FOREHEAD LMAOOOO
WE
>>64175615
So because there is a bit of fantasy in the movie nothing needs to make sense? Characters we're supposed to care about can do 180s and drop any realism they had?
Well I'm glad we don't need proper characters in a movie known solely for character growth.
>>64175541
You're a fucking idiot. Poe trusts him because he helped him escape, Rey trusts him because he helped her escape the First Order tie fighters, BB-8 trusts him because he helped him escape the First Order, Leia trusts him because he fights with the Resistance at Maz's bar. Did you watch the fucking movie?
ITT:
>well he wasn't as bad as rey!
He is the new Leia
Personality didn't match his background as a stormtrooper.
>Taken from family at birth and trained all his life to be a soldier
>D-d-do you have a boyfriend
They could have done so much more with his character, but he just becomes a normal guy making quips after he defects.
>>64175687
>Are brainwashed child soldiers innocent? How are they responsible for their actions?
Are serial killers who were molested by their parents as kids responsible for their actions?
Fun character, lots of potential for depth and growth in later movies.
I liked that he was a bit of a coward and a goof, while still being quite competent in areas where it made sense for him to be. Made him feel like a real person.
I do think his desertion could have been handled a bit more seriously. Hopefully we'll get more on this in the sequels, but for now he seems way too comfortable with his new life, considering he was supposedly indoctrinated from birth to be an emotionless space nazi. I hope that episode 8 will explore his past and internal conflict a bit more.
>>64175541
He had limited knowledge of the designs of the Starkiller. He admitted to Han we was telling the Resistance what he needed to in order to get on the ground and save Rey, he wasn't concerned with destroying the Starkiller and was only guessing at how to do it.
>>64175704
Everything he did was utterly plausible, what the film does is what every adventure story does for the sake of time: it condenses his disillusionment to the first 20 minutes of the film in order to get on with the story. We don't need an entire film dedicated to his decision to leave the First Order.
He was alright as the comic relief character
Anybody got a webm of him and BB8 giving each other the thumbs up
>>64175721
You may want to rethink your argument, faggot. Those are after the fact, it doesn't explain before Poe escapes, before Rey gets attacked by stormtroopers, or the bot knowing Finn isn't Resistance. You made their argument stronger
>>64175818
THAT ROBOT IS A KUCK WORKING TO GENOCIDE THE WHITE RACE
>>64175814
>cheering the death of the people he lived with while trying to escape the horrors of war
>plausible
He could at least been angry about it, or at least a little shocked.
As someone who fucking hated TFA, I thought his performance was its single redeeming quality.
>>64175873
THATS A FUNNY WAY TO SAY ADAM DRIVER DID THE ONLY ACTUAL ACTING IN THE WHOLE MOVIE AND EVERYONE ELSE WAS TERRIBLE
>>64175818
>thumbs up
>implying BB8 wasn't threatening him with fire
he's really ugly and i didn't find him interesting. i hated all of his """"""""""""funny"""""""""" quips
To be quite honest family, Kylo Ren was the worst part of TFA and it's weird because his story is great, but the reason it's terrible is because he is supposed to be the main villain but they have ALREADY exposed him as a sniveling conflicted millennial. Darth Vader went two and half movies before he showed any definite sense of wanting to do anything but destroy the Rebels and corrupt Luke as he himself was corrupted.
They let Vader be an all out villain to be feared. Granted he was always the nuanced and thoughtful villain to Tarkin's "evil because evil" mindset, but he was still a monster with a score to settle until he found Luke.
Kylo Ren can have a tragic backstory and that's fine but we have too much of it too soon. It's like come the fuck ON, JJ. You are guaranteed through episode NINE.
I couldn't get past this
>>64175642
That was just him realizing he was facing his mortality, that people were dying and shit was real. It was his first time in combat, after all, so seeing people die made him scared. Then he was asked to kill unarmed villagers and couldn't bring himself to do it. It's all to establish him as having a conscience but also being kind of a coward. When he stands his ground later and volunteers to go into battle to rescue Rey it's him showing development and no longer trying to run away.
>>64175838
Poe doesn't encounter Finn until he helps him escape; the time between Finn meeting Rey and helping her escape was like 3 minutes, where it's clear that he's one of the good guys given the First Order's attempt to shoot him down; same with BB-8. You're the worst type of cinema sins nitpicker.
>>64175340
Yes and he seemed to not hesitate at all while killing his former friends and colleagues.
It was like San Bernadino in space
>>64175863
Luke Skywalker committed Stormtrooper genocide while cheering. Star Wars isn't a gritty war drama you fucking autist.
>>64175970
>GRAND THEFT TIE FIGHTER
JJ IS RACIST CONFIRMED
>>64175642
>embracing
Nah
>>64176053
That has literally nothing to do with my post.
>>64175242
who are they fucking?
>>64175938
Vader's story was different.
Also, Lucas didn't know he was going to be making a movie past Star Wars so Vader didn't have any sort of development at all or indication that he would be more than just evil bad guy (which he was) in following movies.
>>64175938
To wit, imagine if instead if finding out Vader is his father at the climax of Empire, it's just thrown out as a casual conversation piece between Han and Obi while they're flying to Alderaan. Imagine Luke finding out Leia is his sister just before the space battle around Yavin.
We learned way too much about Kylo Ren too quickly. Han should have mentioned He had tangled with Ren and the First Order while smuggling, and only during their confrontation do we find out they had a friendly relationship ever, and not even that he's his son. It's just too much exposition and at the same time not enough.
>>64176052
because those people killed his familly, they weren't lukes familly.
>>64175748
Kek
>>64174402
I thought he was good. Definitely has a heart of gold.
No issues with boyega's performance, but I think they kind of botched the character's backstory.
Having one of the main characters be a deserter stormtrooper is a cool idea, but it wasn't handled very well. It seemed pretty weird that Finn is supposed to be uncomfortable with violence and death, but then has no qualms about gunning down people who he previously fought alongside and may even have personally known. I hope that in the sequels we learn more about stormtrooper "culture" and Finn's origins are examined more thoroughly.
He also seemed way too normal for a dude who was brainwashed from birth to fight for a fascist regime.
>>64175208
I am guessing in the original draft poe stuck around for the whole film.
Maybe JJ or some disney head thought it was too busy (can't have 3 characters doing stuff) or that it was too much like the original (2 guys and a girl in space).
No professional writer would introduce a main character, have him disappear , and then bring him back later on.
Plus it would make sense for him to fly the millennium falcon. He is already set up as being the best pilot in the rebellion.
Then you have a Romantic Love Triangle between ray, finn and poe.
You get Poe and Finn...going around, getting into shenanigans , meet some kooky girl with the BB8 Droid (plus makes Ray less of a mary sue since now she isn't also the greatest pilot of all time either)
its pretty straight forward writing.
>>64175020
God dammit this, the movie was fucking good with Finn and Poe as bros they didn't even need to bring back the old characters or Rey with the chemistry they had going on
>>64176116
Vader's story was different? Super promising and powerful Jedi knight who fell to the dark side in league with a military strong arm for (likely) sentimental reasons?
Come the hell on, man. Prays to Darth Vader's skull and mask calling it grandpa when Anakin Skywalker is a goddamn ghost you can actually talk to
>>64175938
THE MOVIE IS ALREADY TOO SIMILAR TO A NEW HOPE IT DOESN'T NEED TO ALSO COPY DARTH VADER REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>>64176123
>Luke finding out Leia is his sister just before the space battle around Yavin
moon of endor...
fair mistake
>>64176159
>LITERALLY xD
fuck off, lebbit
>>64176230
Yea, I kinda wished his 'breaking point' would've been a little more extreme, like showing him mowing down regular citizens in one shot, but then stopping as he sees the troops gunning down children or some shit.
It happens a bit too suddenly and out of the blue.
>>64175191
He probably had a problem with opening fire on an unarmed villagers who didn't do anything.
Slightly less problem with killing people who were trying to kill him.
(you know...like most normal people)
>>64176230
>It seemed pretty weird that Finn is supposed to be uncomfortable with violence and death, but then has no qualms about gunning down people who he previously fought alongside and may even have personally known.
HE WAS BEING SHOT AT IT WAS SELF DEFENSE HE ONLY ACTIVELY DECIDED TO STORM THE BASE AFTER MAZ CALLED HIM A COWARD AND THE FIRST ORDER DESTROYED HER BAR
>>64176332
>WHY ISN'T THIS A GIRTTY REALISTIC WAR DRAMA
IT'S A FUCKING FANTASY MOVIE WITH SPACE WIZARDS AND LASER SWORD FIGHTS. THIS WOULD BE TONALLY INAPPROPRIATE FOR STAR WARS
>>64176408
Because it hasn't happened before, right?
>>64174402
Weak male that works in sanitation and falls in love with a strong white woman.
Like every character in the movie there is so little present to go off of that it really doesn't matter.
Almost everyone I've talked to that isn't racist loves this movie and I really don't get it. It's quite literally weak shit spread thin.
>>64174402
Boring and completely wasted of potential.
>>64176408
*TOTALLY
BTW, REY WAS A SHITTY MARY SUE FYI
ALL BECAUSE ITS 2015 AND GURLPOWER!
ALSO TO SELL STAR WARS TOYS TO GIRLS BECAUSE GIRLS ARE AN UNDERPENETRATED MARKET
>>64176494
just like your life
>>64176472
YEAH AND IT NEARLY KILLED THE FRANCHISE
>>64176506
>*TOTALLY
NO I MEANT TONALLY
>>64174576
>>64174614
>>64174686
Spotted the redittards. He was essentially identical to Poe except he was black and had a different back story.
The only actor who had a completely unique identity in this film was Carrie Fisher, and even with her taxidermy-style face, she presented more emotion with her voice than anyone in this film did, except maybe Ford, who just looked tired and confused.
>>64176556
GET A SPELLCHECK RETARD LMAO
>>64176271
I was enjoying the movie up to when Poe disappeared. I figured he was going to show up behind finn (like in last crusade when Pa Jones thought indy fell off the cliff in the tank)
They could have had the old crew show up when they finally got to the rebel (?!?!) base.
Replace TR8 Trooper with Capt.Phasma (to give her something to do)
and Make Kylo almost defeat Ray (she does okay against him but isn't match for his training) but escapes because of the earth quake and chewie showing up in the falcon.
would at least make the movie B+ . I don't know how they would screw up obvious film writing like this
>>64176408
>poor writing
>Oh but it's fantasy so it doesn't matter
>it's just a kids movie
>star wars was never about the characters
This is what happened with the prequels
>>>64176506
You joke but disney would do that
Razor-thin background for his character, but he had a decent personality and great interactions with the rest of the cast. He has the most potential and will be the most interesting one to watch in the next 2 movies.
>>64176277
Just because the backstory is similar, doesn't mean the characters have to be.
Kylo Ren is totally different from Darth Vader as presented in the OT. He's conflicted, emotional, immature, and desu not very good at the whole sith lord thing. If he was portrayed as Vader 2.0, you'd lose everything that makes him a unique character.
>>64176579
can't make a spin off if hes not doing something
can't sell a new riot trooper toy if he doesn't show up
can't make her lose because kids won't like her
Seriously I want to know how much influence disney has.
>>64176478
I'm racist and despise this movie, but not because of Finn.
He was one of the few characters I liked.
>>64175208
No.
JJ admitted Poe was supposed to die in the crash originally, then decided he wanted to the character to live. That's all.
>>64176342
What about when he kills tons of stormtroopers and other first order guys during his initial escape, while literally yelling and cheering?
I'm not saying this ruins the movie or whatever, I'm just saying it's a little weird and could have been handled much better.
>>64176595
>poor writing
NO IT'S ABOUT TONAL APPROPRIATENESS. LUKE SEES THE CHARRED REMAINS OF THE PEOPLE WHO RAISED HIM AND LOOKS LIKE HE HAS A TUMMY ACHE AT WORST. LUKE CHEERS WHILE KILLING NEARLY 400,000 PEOPLE ON THE DEATH STAR. LEIA LOOKS SLIGHTLY ANGRY WHEN SOMEONE BLOWS UP HER ENTIRE PLANET. STAR WARS HAS NEVER BEEN ABOUT REALISTIC DISPLAYS OF EMOTIONS. IT'S A SPACE OPERA, NOT A SERIOUS DRAMA.
>>64176408
Never use the genre to justify poor character development, friend.
>>64176513
Nice projection there, cowboy. Angry I insulted the only thing you can shitpost about to keep you from killing your empty life?
>>64176707
1970S SENSIBILITIES ARE NOT THE SAME AS >2 0 1 5 SENSIBILITIES
Unrelated but why does everyone forget everything that ever happens in the star wars universe? Its always shit like "I thought that was just a myth" even though it only happened a few decades ago.
>>64176695
HE STARTS OFF EXTREMELY NERVOUS. HE ONLY STARTS YELLING AND CHEERING BECAUSE HE'S HAPPY TO BE ALIVE AFTER THE FIRST ORDER CONTINUES TO ATTEMPT TO KILL HIM. IT WAS SELF DEFENSE. IT'S ALSO A SPACE OPERA, NOT A PASOLINI MOVIE
>>64176707
No one is saying Finn should have a nervous breakdown and turn into some PTSD-haunted space 'Nam vet.
It would still make sense for him to come off as a little bit conflicted about his role in killing first order troops, especially at the start of the movie when he first escapes.
>>64176718
IT'S NOT POOR CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT. YOU HAVE TO BE COGNIZANT OF WHAT THE FILM IS TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH
>>64176674
I doubt that.
Why would the first character we meet be killed off 20 minutes into the film?
(unless they did the classic loser takes his identity plot)
>>64176707
>>64176793
None of this changes the fact the characters are mostly all boring and wasted of potential for bland stereotypical arc's.
>>64176707
luke was racing home because he knew they came, he was most disgusted with himself because he didn't make it in time. He was probably wrestling with the thought the entire trip.
Leia has tears in her eyes is in complete shock and is powerless to do anything. The scene cuts before we see her complete reaction.
>>64176674
Poe was general of the resistance at some point in development with Leia as senator and the one funding the resistance from the senate.
>>64176793
THE ENTIRE RAISON D'ETRE OF THE FILM WAS TO RECREATE THE ORIGINAL TRILOGY'S TONE AND AESTHETIC. IF YOU THINK THAT'S A BAD GOAL THEN FINE, BUT IT SUCCEEDS AT ACCOMPLISHING THAT GOAL.
>>64176800
But why even bother making him a stormtrooper if you're not going to do anything with the idea?
>>64174402
>Before watching
>Wanted Rey as Jedi, space nigger to fuck off
>After watching
>Liked Finn, want Rey to fuck off permanently
>excitement for based Poe remains consistent
Consider me partially BTFO
>>64176847
Are you that caps lock faggot who shits up /his/ sometimes
>>64176809
I THINK THE FILM SIDESTEPS THAT BECAUSE A SINGLE SENSE OF HESITANCY ON HIS PART WOULD MEAN HE'S DEAD. HE'S LITERALLY ONLY KILLING THE PEOPLE WHO ARE IMPEDING HIS ESCAPE AND ARE ATTEMPTING TO KILL HIM
![Alg-crying-baby-jpg[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/VIjoRNT.jpg "Alg-crying-baby-jpg[1].jpg")
>>64176513
>literally being this upset over a movie
Now, now, no need to act like a child who has nothing else to say.
>>64176860
ITS LITERALLY A KIDS MOVIE DESIGNED TO SELL TOYS
CATEGORICALLY GARBAGE
JUST TERRIBLE WRITING NOT TO MENTION TERRIBLE ACTING, THE ONLY HALF DECENT PERFORMANCE WAS ADAM DRIVER ON THE BRIDGE
>>64174402
He was a traitor
>>64176800
Why are you typing in all caps? Makes it kind of difficult to take you seriously.
>>64176932
>shows no hestency
>shows remorse and disgust the scenes prior
>WOO
>>64176885
BECAUSE THE IDEA OF ROGUE TROOPERS IS INTERESTING, AND BECAUSE IT SERVES THE PLOT IN BOTH HAVING POE ESCAPE AND HAVING SOMEONE GIVE INFORMATION AS TO STARKILLER'S ARCHITECTURE
>>64176941
I'll give you that, Adam Driver was possibly the best new actor on the screen.
Finn was tolerable, even though his sole purpose is "muh diversity", and Daisy was an annoying twat.
That stupid orange droid bugged the fuck out of me.
>>64176809
I'm with you on this. This is a guy who spent his whole life training with these troops, and should have been able to form a human connection with them. It's a hard swallow to think he has no trouble blasting them to bits once he defects.
>>64176932
No need to have him have issues in the middle of the fight. Have him have a few lines at some point afterwards, or even just some expressions, indicating that he's a bit conflicted.
There are obviously good and bad ways to introduce the idea that he's having some emotional issues, but by skipping over them entirely the movie is missing out on some great opportunities to add depth to Finn's character.
>>64177000
You know whats interesting space aliens and monsters.
Not good to write them as main characters though if you're going to do nothing but say "wasn't that neet."
>>64176870
I THINK YOU ARE DOWNPLAYING FINN'S REACTION. IT WAS TECHNICALLY LONGER THAN EITHER LUKE'S OR LEIA'S, AND IT CONTINUED ON FOR MULTIPLE SCENE AND SETS. HE DIDN'T STOP REACTING UNTIL HE ESCAPES WITH POE
>>64176883
It does not recreate the original trilogy's tone and aesthetic my man. I looked the same, but did not feel the same. It is because the characters were not developed properly. Han and Leia's nebulous relationship was atmospherically destroyed by Fisher's stilted acting. Rey became quagmires as a character by the variety of her own abilities and frankly I can't see her developing in any interesting way unless she goes to the dark side. Po was dead most of the movie then shoehorned in to destroy the "bigger death star". Finn and Kylo were the only interesting characters, but the former was cast off as a useless comic relief. And Kylo's defeat and faults have negative repercussions on any semblance of threat to the characters or tone. He was not the strong, ominous evil force that Vader was in IV.
>>64177090
>Finn was interesting
Only in the first 15 minutes.
>>64177083
Lukes reaction to the storm troopers killin his familly was his entire reason to "fight the empire" its his main driving force.
>>64176988
>>64177050
I THINK THAT HAVING AN 'I CAN'T DO THIS MOMENT' WOULD CONFLICT WITH THE TONE THAT THE FILM IS TRYING TO EMULATE, WHICH IS THE SAME ADVENTURE SERIAL TONE THAT STAR WARS EMULATED BACK IN 1977. I ALSO DON'T THINK THAT HE WOULD PLAUSIBLY FEEL THE NEED TO DO THAT GIVEN HIS KNOWLEDGE OF THE FIRST ORDER AND THE REALIZATION THAT THEY WOULD TRY TO KILL HIM WITHOUT HESITATION. HE'S A COWARD WHO JUST WANTS TO GET OUT OF THERE WITH HIS LIFE, EVEN IF IT MEANS KILLING IN SELF DEFENSE.
>>64177083
Yea, but his reaction was so over-played and simplistic that it was boring to watch. With Luke, it was more subtle, but still glaringly obvious that something was stirring.
Actors these days just don't know what acting is.
>>64177191
SAME COULD BE SAID ABOUT THE VILLAGE MASSACRE BEING THE IMPETUS FOR FINN'S DEFECTION
>>64177287
it was to run away from battle, he had a fear of fighting and suddenly enjoys it the next scene.
>>64177287
Ah yes, the random village massacre that tried to display difficult emotions in a space romp with alien monsters running around in a Freighter, and the Pilot who witnesses all of this makes snarky, comedic remarks at the villain who just orchestrated the slaughter of the people he knew.
Yea, there's no conflict of tone there.
>>64177242
#BLACK LIVES MATTER
OF COURSE HE HAS NO HESITATION TO KILL THE WHITEMAN
>>64177090
THIS IS ALL SUBJECTIVE, BUT I THINK THAT YOU'RE IGNORING GOOD DEVELOPMENT FOR CHARACTERS LIKE KYLO REN AND OVERSTATING THE DEVELOPMENT OF CHARACTERS LIKE LEIA AND VADER, WHO DON'T BECOME WELL-ESTABLISHED UNTIL EMPIRE. THE PROBLEM IS THAT YOU'RE VIEWING HAN, LUKE, LEIA, AND VADER THROUGH THE PRISM OF THREE FILMS, BUT YOU'RE VIEWING THE NEW CHARACTERS FROM THE PRISM OF JUST A SINGLE FILM. I DON'T THINK IT'S FAIR TO COMPARE THE TWO SETS OF CHARACTERS JUST YET.
>>64175520
stop being a faggot. we need to just admit that we all have reddit accounts already. being a redditor is nothing to be ashamed of and honestly we're on the same side. reddit and /tv/ are allies now to fight against the /pol/ cancer on this board.
>>64177368
>comedic remarks at the villain who just orchestrated the slaughter of the people he knew.
whats up with this.
Why are you making this fearsome monster of a character and suddenly throwing a joke at him.
>>64174402
"We'll use the force!" was the best joke in the movie, the whole theater lost it when he said it.
I guess the most convincing criticism I've heard of Finn's character was that he seems to be too happy to fire on Stormtroopers, although I guess you could say that he just resents them as a group for essentially enslaving him.
All in all, it's nice to have characters like Finn in the movie because they actually resemble real people, unlike the prequels where everyone might as well be a robot and/or autistic.
>>64176883
>THE ENTIRE RAISON D'ETRE OF THE FILM WAS TO RECREATE THE ORIGINAL TRILOGY'S TONE AND AESTHETIC
lel, where did you get that idea? From pic related? Did you not notice the frantic action movie veneer and pacing throughout the entire movie? And even if there were time for a clear tone to be established, it would be in all the stupid sitcom humor and effortless triumph, definitely not in building up new characters and their undertaking of something much bigger than them.
>>64177475
No, you're just projecting your own faggotry.
The only thing wrong with /pol/ are the liberals that provoke them.
>>64177368
HARD TONAL SHIFTS CAN BE DONE RIGHT, JUST READ HAMLET OR TWELFTH NIGHT. HIDEO KOJIMA DID NOTHING WRONG. IT'S ALSO WORTH NOTING THE LIGHT MOMENTS IN A FILM LIKE A NEW HOPE, WHERE YOU LITERALLY WITNESS THE GENOCIDE OF AN ENTIRE PLANET'S POPULATION AND THE CHARRED REMAINS OF TWO COMFY OLD PEOPLE
>>64177368
ALSO THE MASSACRE DOESN'T HAPPEN UNTIL AFTER POE MAKES THE JOKE
>>64174936
not really
>>64175520
this. I could feel the fucking reddit
>>64177592
>HARD TONAL SHIFTS CAN BE DONE RIGHT
Yes, but neither Leia nor Luke said something "witty" and "quipy" to Darth Vader after either of those things happened, now did they?
>>64177622
He was literally watching them use flame-throwers and blasting random strangers before the battle ended.
>>64177475
This is a decent bait response, mind if I save it?
>>64174402
If it wasn't him easily killing his former brethren I'd honestly like him
>>64177533
THE FILM ISN'T ACTUALLY FRANTIC. THE EDITING HAD A VERY SPIELBERG DISREGARD FOR HARD TEMPORAL CONSISTENCY, WHICH MADE IT FEEL VERY OLD SCHOOL AND UNFRANTIC. ONLY A COUPLE OF THE SHIP BATTLES FELT LIKE MODERN MOVIE ACTION
>definitely not in building up new characters
KYLO REN IS ALREADY MORE DEVELOPED THAN VADER WAS IN TWO FILMS
>"war is bad omg my fellow soldier died"
>"haha killing stormtroopers is so fun"
all within 3 minutes
why is abrams such a hack writer
other than that, i liked finn
>>64175520
Rey: So you're with the Resistance?
Finn: Obviously. Yes, I am. I'm with the Resistance, yeah. I am with the Resistance.
Rey: I've never met a Resistance fighter before.
Finn: Well this is what we look like. Some of us. Others look different.
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
>>64177765
at least it made sense for a brainwashed stormtrooper to be awkward as fuck.
>we're never going to see storm troopers acting awkward in social settings
>>64177688
>Yes, but neither Leia nor Luke said something "witty" and "quipy" to Darth Vader after either of those things happened, now did they?
"I THOUGHT I RECOGNIZED YOUR FOUL STENCH WHEN I WAS BROUGHT ON BOARD."
>He was literally watching them use flame-throwers and blasting random strangers before the battle ended.
IT'S A BATTLE WITH BOTH SIDES HAVING GUNS. KYLO REN DOESN'T ORDER THE CAPTURED VILLAGE TO BE MASSACRED UNTIL AFTER POE IS TAKEN ABOARD.
>>64176809
this
me and my military pals went to see this and it bothered us because even the people we hate in the military we at least have a connection with
>>64177765
He was too busy staring at dem titties to speak normally.
>>64177765
ITS LIKE A PAUL REISER ROUTINE
>>64175020
>>64175208
JJ said Poe was originally going to die. His stuff in act 3 was probably Wedge's originally before the actor decline to appear.
>>64177749
THE FILM HAD THREE WRITERS, NOT JUST JJ. AND HE NEVER COMES ACROSS AS BELIEVING THAT KILLING TROOPERS IS FUN, HE'S JUST EXCITED THAT THE PEOPLE WHO ARE TRYING TO KILL HIM AREN'T.
>>64177463
But Kylo Ren's development is problematic for the emulation of the original film's tone. Vader in episode IV was a powerful embodiment of evil. Him killing obi-wan was devestating for Luke, and showed the audience his strength. The destruction of the death star was a good conclusion to the plot because it was a major victory, as Luke's whole quest began with the stolen death star plans, but still left Vader's image untouched, to strike again in the next movie.
Kylo Ren was different because he was given a face, a personality, that was not strong. He is not an embodiment of evil and that affects the tone of the movie. The death of Han did little to show that Kylo Ren was powerful, and he got his ass kicked by Rey which only cemented his weakness and destroyed the satisfaction of a hard earned victory. If he comes back as the villain again, he won't be seen as threatening. The destruction of the Bigger Death Star wasn't very climactic either because it didn't have anything to do with the main plot until like halfway through the movie. The destruction of the death star made sense because R2D2 had been carrying the plans since minute one. Just because Starkiller base was huge and destroyed things we didn't care about for a scene doesn't mean its destruction by Po, a character who was dead half the movie, will have an emotional impact.
TFA tried to revive the old atmosphere, but was bogged down by modern cinema science-fiction/fantasy conventions.
>>64177830
>"I THOUGHT I RECOGNIZED YOUR FOUL STENCH WHEN I WAS BROUGHT ON BOARD."
That's neither witty nor quipy, it's her saying it in a serious tone, meant as an insult. Also, that happened before-hand.
>IT'S A BATTLE WITH BOTH SIDES HAVING GUNS. KYLO REN DOESN'T ORDER THE CAPTURED VILLAGE TO BE MASSACRED UNTIL AFTER POE IS TAKEN ABOARD.
No, the fight at the beginning of A New Hope was a battle. Trained soldiers/pilots defending a boarding action. These were civilians defending themselves in vain.
There's a stark contrast.
>>64177861
>dem titties
LITERALLY WHERE
>>64177902
WOO DID YOU SEE THAT
>>64177902
>WAHOOO DID YOU SEE THAT?
>>64177765
IT WAS A FUN LITTLE RELATEABLE SCENE WHERE HE'S TRYING TO AWKWARDLY IMPRESS A QT HE JUST MET. WHY DO YOU HATE HAVING A GOOD TIME?
FINN CONFIRMED SCUMBAG FOR REJOICING AT KILLING HIS FORMER COMRADES
>LITERAL DESERTER
>STEALS TIE FIGHTER
>HAS FUN KILLING HIS BROTHERS IN ARMS
WHAT A PIECE OF SHIT TBQH
>>64177922
>>64177932
WELL DID YOU SEE IT? IT WAS AWESOME.
>>64177744
The film had a very Abrams disregard for dialogue and establishing scenes. ANH spends the first 42 minutes just talking, with the Stormtroopers boarding Leia's ship being the only notable action sequence. At the end of these 42 minutes, Luke leaves for the Cantina and things start rolling.
Compare this to the scene with Kylo and Poe, Finn and Poe escaping and crashing, Rey kicking thief and Finn ass and subsequent running from TIE fighters in the marketplace, then Rey and Finn in the Falcon, and then Rey fixing the ship or whatever before it's flooded with poisonous gas. Then at the 42 minute mark we have Han start the whole tentacle monster Scooby Doo chase.
Stop being so disingenuous.
>>64174402
was hoping he died at the end desu
>>64176610
one of the most annoying things about his character is that he is supposed to be pretty powerful (he did mindbreak Luke afterall), but like you say, he never gets to really show that massive amount of power and spends most of the movie sulking and throwing tantrums
>>64174402
He was pretty okay. He was fairly likable but occasionally started drifting into Sassy Black Character territory
>>64178111
>he did mindbreak Luke afterall
when?
also it's theorized his power comes from his balance between the light and the dark, just like luke who used the darkside and didn't fall too deep. Him trying to hard to be the sith is his undoing.
>>64178158
I think the reason Luke runs and hides is because Kylo killed off the people Luke was training, right?
>>64174402
interesting backstory that is kinda vague in places where I would have liked to have seen more. His actor was fine, but I thought he was terrible at comic relief.
>>64178009
THE BIGGEST PROBLEM WITH MODERN WRITING, PARTICULARLY BY HACKS LIKE CHRISTOPHER NOLAN, IS THE AMOUNT OF EXPOSITION THAT THEY INSERT INTO THEIR FILMS. THERE'S NO SENSE OF WONDER WHEN LITERALLY EVERY ASPECT OF THE PLOT IS CONTINUOUSLY ARTICULATED BY CHARACTERS WHOSE SOLE PURPOSE IS TO EXPLAIN THE PLOT. ABRAM'S BIGGEST STRENGTH IS HOW MUCH HE SHOWS RATHER THAN STATES. INSTEAD OF TELLING US THAT REY FEELS LIKE SHE MIGHT BE STUCK ON JAKKU FOR THE REST OF HER LIFE, JJ INSTEAD SHOWS HER STARING AT AN OLD WOMAN DOING EXACTLY THE SAME THING SHE'S DOING. INSTEAD OF EXPLAINING THE STATUS OF LUKE SKYWALKER IN MODERN TIMES, HE SHOWS US REY REACT WHEN FINN MENTIONS HIS NAME. JJ HAS PROBLEMS, BUT THE ONES YOU'RE LEVELING AGAINST HIM AREN'T FAIR. HIS BIGGEST PROBLEM IS HIS LACK OF ORIGINALITY, NOT HIS CHARACTERS.
>>64178225
FINNDU BINKS
>>64178253
>ABRAM'S BIGGEST STRENGTH IS HOW MUCH HE SHOWS RATHER THAN STATES
>HEY IM JUST GONNA PULL A JEDI MIND TRICK OUT OF MY ASS AND GET THIS STORM TROOPER TO RELEASE ME AND DROP HIS WEAPON XDDD
-MARY SUE SKYWALKER
BRAVO JJ
>>64178261
We've never had a character as funny as Jar Jar before. He is the key to all of this.
>>64178302
LUKE SKYWALKER BLOWS UP AN ENTIRE DEATH STAR WITH HIS EYES CLOSED BEFORE HE TRAINS WITH YODA
>>64174621
the favorite character of me and my stepson?
>>64178353
EITHER HE HITS THE WOMPRAT OR HE DOESNT
IT REQUIRES NO SPECIFIC KNOWLEDGE OF HOW TO WILL ANOTHER PERSON TO OBEY YOU TELEPATHICALLY
REY IS THE MOST LAUGHABLY RIDICULOUS MARY SUE IN THE HISTORY OF MOVIES
>>64178353
because obi wan trained him in trusting his feelings
obi wan's spirit ghost helped him
the entire rebel fleet helped him
han solo helped him
oh Rey did it because... uhh shes strong.
>>64178353
yes, but at least he mentions that he's been flying for years and is an amazing pilot. Are you going to tell me that Mary Sue has been practicing her jedi mind tricks while living in a trash heap?
>>64178353
BUT COULD HE HAVE BEATEN VADER IN EPISODE IV?
OR COMMANDED A STORMTROOPER TO RELEASE LEIA AND HAND HER A GUN?
OR REPAIRED AND FLOWN THE MILLENNIUM FALCON WITHOUT HAN'S HELP?
OR BEAT MULTIPLE COMBATANTS IN A BRAWL?
>>64178443
I'LL ADMIT THAT REY IS PORTRAYED AS A SUPERHERO DISCOVERING HER POWERS RATHER THAN SOMEONE TRAINED IN THE ART OF COMBAT. BUT IN A NEW HOPE THE FORCE IS PORTRAYED AS SOMETHING YOU TAP INTO, NOT SOMETHING THAT REQUIRES DECADES OF TRAINING LIKE IN THE PREQUELS. LUKE WAS ABLE TO BLOCK BLASTS WHILE BLINDFOLDED JUST BY TAPPING INTO THE FORCE WITHOUT ANY ACTUAL TRAINING.
>>64178493
>BUT COULD HE HAVE BEATEN VADER IN EPISODE IV?
KYLO REN VERY DELIBERATELY ISN'T VADER. HIS TRAINING ISN'T COMPLETE
>>64178578
And that's a wrap folks.
>>64178578
deflecting lasers != mind control
>>64178469
>TRUST YOUR FEELINGS LUKE!
>LEARN TO LET GO!
HE WASN'T TRAINED, HE WAS TOLD TO USE THE FORCE AND HE USED IT. HE WAS TAPPING INTO HIS POWERS LIKE REY DID.
>Finn x Poe becomes OTP
Want or not?
pretty surprisingly decent character; I wonder what they thought of him in china
>>64174856
>out-pilot the pilots, out-fight the fighters, and out-force a sith
Holy shit....she better be revealed as Luke and Leia's incestuous kid. One minute, she's scavenging and the next she's helping blowup a planet.
for all the shit /tv/ was giving him before it came out he was the best character in the movie and if the pacing was done a little better his arc could have been smoother and developed more properly
>>64178660
jesus
when he used the helmet he was trained in trusting his feelings.
>>64178686
yeah /tv/ should apologize
>>64178469
Rey did it against kylo ren. He is basically a tenth of what Vader was. His crappy saber is proof of that as is his general undermining throuout the film. Rey is a natural with the force and is already more Jedi like than him before she even finds out she has the force. There's a reason Kylo looks adolescent. There's a reason why there are so many parental figures in the movie
>>64178669
want but don't want because it feels like forced gay stuff for an agenda.
>>64178637
THE FORCE WASN'T SOMETHING THAT REQUIRED YEARS OF TRAINING FOR LUKE. OBI-WAN TELLS HIM TO TAP INTO IT AND HE DOES IT. THAT'S THE EXTENT OF HIS "TRAINING."
>>64178648
CAN YOU TELL ME THE OFFICIAL CANONICAL LEVELS OF JEDI POWERS? DO YOU HAVE TO TRAIN FOR X AMOUNT OF HOURS TO LEARN HOW TO FORCE CHOKE?
>>64178614
AND YET YOU HOLD THE BELIEF THAT THE FORCE AWAKENS RETAINS THE ORIGINAL TRILOGY'S TONE AND ATMOSPHERE? THE DELIBERATE BLACK AND WHITE MORALITY THAT IS CRUCIAL TO THE ORIGINAL TRILOGY, WITH VADER AND THE EMPEROR REPRESENTING THE ULTIMATE EVIL AND OBI-WAN AND YODA REPRESENTING THE ULTIMATE GOOD, IS ABSENT IN THE FORCE AWAKENS. KYLO'S WEAKNESS AS AN ANTAGONIST AND HIS DEFEAT MAKE FOR A POOR CONSTRUCTION OF TENSION.
>>64178726
>Rey did it against kylo ren
even if hes a tenth of vaders strength, her just magically reversing it doesn't make sense.
>>64178578
THATS BULLSHIT
YOUR LUKE EXAMPLES ARE INSTINCT BASED PHYSICAL FEATS, LIKE GETTING INTO THE ZONE WHILE PLAYING A SPORT
NOT MENTAL TACTICS OF ENTERING INTO A PERSONS MIND AND FORCING THEM TO OBEY YOU, JEDI MIND TRICK IS A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT CATEGORY AND SHE HAS NO KNOWLEDGE OF HOW TO DO IT, YET SHE DOES IT BECAUSE ITS 2015 GIRLPOWER!
M A R Y
A
R
Y
S U E
U
E
SHIT WRITING, GARBAGE CHARACTER
>>64178755
it wasn't so black and white with vader, luke felt like there was good in him.
>>64178808
only in episode 6
I don't understand how Finn quickly defected the First Order. I thought he was trained since birth or childhood. If he was just an average shmo who enlisted thinking he'll get food and bed, then had second thoughts, it would have been better.
People who use the phrase "Mary Sue" unironically aren't even worth responding to. They are 14 year olds who learned one phrase and now think they can make a worthwhile contribution to a conversation. It's like arguing with people on imdb message boards or something.
>>64178774
There were so many mitigating factors. Injury, emotional turmoil, element of surprise. Never mind that he probably didn't even want to kill her.
>>64176883
>RAISON D'ETRE
I see someone has been watching ergo proxy
>>64178898
cause he'sa nigger
>>64178929
the mind reading anon.
>thousand threads about how fucking jewish this film is and how this nigger needs to die before release.
>80% of /pol/ saw the movie after release and now discuss that Finn wasnt that bad.
I like that he's a dumb nig nog stereotype
>>64178898
This, seriously.
The Stormtroopers should've been volunteers, the First Order should've been the Imperial Remnant rather than an implied rump state too small to interest the Republic, and Snoke should've been a half-grown clone of the Emperor.
There, I just made the First Order a legitimate threat to the Galaxy, made the Stormtroopers human, and gave a little explanation to just what the fuck Snoke was doing when Sheev ruled.
>>64175773
Yeah they could have made him behave like every female alien character ever. Doing awkward stupid shit because cultural differences.
I just realised robot chicken did a better storm trooper story than TFA
>>64178755
THE COMPLAINTS SEEM TO BE ALL OVER THE PLACE. IT'S NOT NUANCED ENOUGH WITH FINN'S TURN, BUT IT'S TOO NUANCED WITH ITS VILLAIN. IT'S TOO MUCH LIKE A NEW HOPE, BUT THE VILLAIN NOT FEELING ENOUGH LIKE VADER RUINS THE ORIGINAL TRILOGY TONE. TRUTH IS THAT THE STORY IS STILL SIMPLE; IT'S CLEAR WHO THE GOOD AND THE BAD GUYS ARE. THE VILLAIN IS INTERESTING, BUT ISN'T PARTICULARLY COMPLEX, HE'S ONLY COMPLEX BY THE STANDARDS THE VADER IN EPISODE IV. HE ALSO FULFILL HIS QUOTA OF THREATENING IN THE SCENE AT MAZ'S PLANET WHERE HE KIDNAPS REY
>>64178949
I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT IS. I JUST SPEAK FRENCH BECAUSE I'M NOT A PLEB
>>64178898
He's a shit cleaner. That was his first time seeing action.
>>64174402
I liked him, as an actor he's very watchable.
However thinking about it now I'm not sure his character matches his history. Would a Stormtrooper, raised by the First Order and indoctrinated from birth, really be so likable and even childish? Most likely he would have been coldly distant and autistic acting.
>>64178685
She didn't really do anything to blow up the planet. Han and Chewy placed the charges, Chewy set them off, and the Poe, Matt Parkman, and co. destroyed it from there. Rey's biggest accomplishment was temporarily defeating Anakin II, before he was fully trained according to Snoke, and escaping from her cell.
>>64174402
I honestly think he's lame and bad at everything. He's the new C3PO but somehow has less heart.
>>64179343
Oh, yeah, and the not-fully-trained totally-different-from-a-Sith-you-guys was injured when they fought.
>>64179302
>However thinking about it now I'm not sure his character matches his history. Would a Stormtrooper, raised by the First Order and indoctrinated from birth, really be so likable and even childish? Most likely he would have been coldly distant and autistic acting.
I was hoping for Finn to attach to Rey as a sort of Protector/Charge relationship, rather than friends or an implied budding romance.
It would really help the movie fit into the Monomyth the OT tapped into, too, since the war-weary veteran protecting an innocent of notable importance is pretty classic throughout history.
>>64174402
I was not expecting him to be so goofy, but I liked that.
I was confused at first, since they were trained from kids to be all emotionless. Like wouldn't his conditioning have left him without that kind of goofiness? Maybe it's cause he was sanitation and not infantry.
>>64179168
HAVING THE MAIN CHARACTER DEFEAT THE BIG BAD WITH LITTLE DIFFICULTY DOES NOT MAKE FOR AN ENGAGING MOVIE, NOR DOES THE DESTRUCTION OF A POORLY INTRODUCED SPACE STATION BY A MAN WAS DEAD FOR MOST OF THE MOVIE. AND KEEP IN MIND THAT THIS IS ONE MOVIE IN A NEW TRILOGY.
NOW LOOK AT THE OTHER MOVIES; THEY BOTH HAVE TWO CONCLUSIVE MOMENTS, ONE VICTORY, AND ONE DEFEAT. THE VICTORY TIES THE IMMEDIATE PLOT TOGETHER AND OFFERS A SATISFYING CONCLUSION TO IS STORY, WHILE THE DEFEAT SETS UP THE URGENCY OF THE SEQUEL AND MAINTAINS THE POWER OF THE ANTAGONISTS.
IT IS OBVIOUS THAT FORCE AWAKENS MIMICS EPISODE IV, BUT FAILS DO EVEN DO THIS CORRECTLY. I DIDN'T CARE ABOUT THE "VICTORY" OVER THE STARKILLER BASE BECAUSE, AS STATED BEFORE, IT WAS POORLY INTRODUCED AND WAS DESTROYED BY A CHARACTER THAT I DON'T CARE ABOUT. WE SAW THE DEATH STAR DESTROY ALDERAAN AND GAUGED ITS POWER FROM LEIA'S REACTIONS. THE STARKILLER BASE DESTROYED A BUNCH OF PLANETS, BUT WE ARE NOT GIVEN THE CONTEXT IN A WAY THAT ENGAGES ME. PLUS, PO ENDS IT, AND I AM GIVEN NO SENSE OF IMPORTANCE TO THE EVENT BECAUSE HIS CHARACTER WAS ESTABLISHED AS THE BEST STAR-FIGHTER PILOT IN THE RESISTANCE, AND WAS DEAD FOR MOST OF THE FILM. THERE WAS NO DEFEAT FOR THE CHARACTERS, AS REY HANDILY DEFEATS KYLO. I WOULD HAVE BEEN FINE WITH A DRAW, LIKE IF SHE HAD JUST BARELY HELD HIM OFF BY THE TIME THE GROUND SPLITS AND HE LOOKED FUCKED UP FROM HIS WOUNDS, BUT THEY DON'T EVEN GIVE US THAT. THE VILLAIN IS DEFEATED HERE AND NOW THERE IS NO URGENCY FOR A SEQUEL.
>>64174402
He was my favorite character besides BB-8, I thought his awkwardness was funny and made sense considering he'd probably never interacted with another human being outside of military context.
I kinda want him to find his family.
>>64179568
IT SEEMS TO ME THAT YOUR MAIN PROBLEMS STEM FROM THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN A NEW HOPE AND THE FORCE AWAKENS, NOT THEIR SIMILARITIES. ENDING WITH THE VILLAIN GETTING HIS FACE CUT ISN'T INHERENTLY WORSE THAN KILLING TARKIN AND SENDING VADER INTO A TAILSPIN. IN FACT, IT'S THE NON-FORCE SENSITIVE HAN WHO DEFEATS VADER IN EPISODE IV, YET NO ONE HAS AN ISSUE WITH THAT. TO ME THE VILLAIN BEING EMBARRASSED IS MORE INTERESTING, IT CRATES AN IMPETUS FOR HIM TO COMPLETE HIS TRAINING AND RETURN EVEN ANGSTIER. I'M NOT GOING TO GO THROUGH YOU'RE OTHER POINTS BECAUSE 1, THEY'RE SUBJECTIVE, 2, I DON'T CARE ENOUGH, AND 3, THEY'RE MOSTLY CINEMA SINS-TIER NITPICKS
>>64179599
I want him to make a new family with Rey :3
>>64177350
He didn't have a fear of fighting. He had a fear that murdering unarmed villagers because 1-2 of them were a plot device was absolutely wrong. Fighting back against the people who mindlessly follow that order, or even pleasurably follow it, is a worthwhile fight.
>>64174402
Surprisingly likeable
"I wanna be Han Solo but I'm not good enough" is a cool character
>>64178353
Luke was trained and helped by Obi-Wan
Also, this little feat give him a confidence boost that make him think he can beat Vador, well he's wrong
Rey on the other hand, know how to fix and talk to everything, learn how to counter jedi mind trick and use them on the spot, then grab a lightsaber for the first time and just beat kylo ren
To understand what the fuck is happening here, imagine if EP4 didnt end on the deathstar explosion, but had a final sequence where Luke chase Vader and beat him in a lightsaber fight somehow
People would defend Luke the same way they're doing here, aka "Vader was harmed by the explosion"
But all know that bullshit would not pass
>>64179886
VADER IS NOT DEFEATED IN COMBAT IN EPISODE IV, HE KILLS OBI-WAN AND IS LEFT IN SPACE TO RETURN. SENDING HIM INTO A TAIL SPIN DID LITTLE TO IMPACT AUDIENCE OPINION ON THE CHARACTER. I ACTUALLY LIKED KYLO'S CHARACTER A LOT, AND I AGREE THAT HIS FAILURE- THE ONE THING HE FEARS THE MOST- GIVES HIM DIRECTION TO RETURN IN THE NEXT FILM, IT DESTROYS THE DRAMATIC TENSION OF THE ANTAGONIST AS I HAVE EXPLAINED PREVIOUSLY. I ACTUALLY FELT MORE FOR KYLO REN -AND FINN- IN THE CONCLUDING LIGHTSABER DUEL THAN I DID FOR THE PROTAGONIST, WHICH SHOULD NEVER HAPPEN IN YOUR MOVIE, ESPECIALLY A MYTH-MIMICKING SCIENCE FANTASY.
AND THE SHIT THAT WAS THE STARKILLER BASE IS NOT A NITPICK BECAUSE IT WAS A LARGE PART OF THE PLOT, THRUST UPON THE CHARACTERS ALL OF A SUDDEN.
>>64180135
IF YOU THINK SHE'S WRITTEN TO BE TOO POWERFUL, ALRIGHT, BUT THE FILM EXPLAINS MOST OF HER ABILITIES. HER ABILITIES AREN'T RANDOM OR UNJUSTIFIED WITHIN THE CONFINES OF THE LORE
>>64175191
He couldn't gun down innocent people. There is a difference. He realized the first Order wasn't for him, and all he was taught was bullshit.
>>64178614
That would be fine save for the fact that the movie tried to focus both on how evil and powerful and what a threat he is at the same time it tried to cast him as a wounded puppy dog whose parents just don't understand him
>>64180297
>BUT THE FILM EXPLAINS MOST OF HER ABILITIES. HER ABILITIES AREN'T RANDOM OR UNJUSTIFIED WITHIN THE CONFINES OF THE LORE
It doesnt, being a scavenger doesnt make you a space mechanic and being the daughter of a Jedi doesnt make you the most powerful character in the entire franchise
I actually think the only way to salvage this character is to make him go full dark side and have Kylo Ren save us all
