SW: The Plot-hole Gapes
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/seth-abramson/40-unforgivable-plot-holes-in-star-wars-the-force-awakens_b_8850324.html?ir=Australia
40 keks were had
feel the Force, faggots
>>63944659
>20. When the Resistance finally figures out where Luke is, after looking for him for many years, why do they send only Chewbacca and a random girl who Leia just met to collect him?
oh god!!
EPISODE VII FAGS BTFO
BLOWN THE FUCK OUT
THE
FUCK
OUT
This is pretty big considering its coming from the SJW death star known as the Huffington post
>>63944659
>trusting JJ Abrams to be involved in a story that has no plot holes
I fucking said this would happen
He does this every fucking time
How long has Luke been in Ireland? How did he get there? Where was his ship? What does he eat? Is that water around the island potable? If not, what does he drink?
huffpo actually dropping truth
anyone with a brain who saw the movie could realize it was well-presented on the surface but had no real substance
glib facsimile and all that
90% of the list is just shit that is "coincidental", which you could say about 99% of movies.
and so begins the great transition from fanboy awe to mainstream disdain for this shiny new turd
only took em 5 days. not bad normies. not bad at all.
>>63950182
>anyone with a brain who saw the movie
N/A
>getting BTFO
>by huffingtonpost
Star Blunder indeed
>>63950347
Not really, check out the comments
>>63950227
if the MF just sitting there and running in perfect order (and fuelled) and then Han just finding it 5 seconds later is your idea of a "coincidence" you can stomach in entertainment you can feed your brain... well:
these aren't plot holes.
does no one know what the definition of the fucking word is anymore?
>>63950734
>ad hominem
>star schlock: the zionists awaken
>>63944659
>all this "Why didn't they just give the eagles the ring to fly it into to mount doom?" type "plot-holes".
Nice try reddit
>Voices of reason
>Max Landis
>The fucking Cuckington Post
>The pleb shills
>RLM
What the FUCK is going on?
>>63950762
does no one know how to spell ANY MORE, any more?
>>63950813
See, here's what I think
RLM was tired of being "The Star Wars Hate Club" and Mike likes JJ.
The Force Awakens is also a fun popcorn movie. If you don't think about it you can have fun. With the Prequels the slow pace FORCES you to look into the characters, and what you find isn't very good.
But yeah. Max fucking Landis of all people is right. Boyega's character makes no sense and Rey is a giant Mary Sue
>>63950813
THE CURRENT YEAR is nearing its end, and shit's starting to get fucking crazy.
>>63949835
15 years, give or take
- How did R2D2 just happen to find the kid who knew Ben Kenobi?
-why does Leia not react at all to the destruction of her home planet?
- How does a space station the size of a small moon vent heat through one exhaust port?
- Vader is clueless about the existence of his own children despite his force senses literally being able to pick up this shit.
- Why is Yoda's training able to make Luke a fairly competent Jedi in the span of a few days verses people who have done it for a lifetime?
- Palpatine never uses his clairvoyance to anticipate the rebels' movements.
- You have to accept Kenobi is a fucking liar even in the original trilogy because they made everything up as they go along even though it makes no sense for him to do so
- Obi-wan completely forgets Leia exists, as far as any kind of action goes, and doesn't bring them in on their plans
- Leia "always knew" Luke was her brother but kissed him anyway
see, I can do it too
>>63950817
http://www.alt-usage-english.org/anymore.html
>>63950799
>Mary Sue goes god mode
eagles
>nignog is cowardly lecher retardate
eagles
>niggers steal TIEs easier than they do bikes
eagles
>dog fighting spacecraft surprisingly good at evading battle fortresses designed to counter them
eagles
>ace pilot disappears and reappears again, sans any exposition or much fanfare
eagles
>MF sitting in pawn dealers lot for decades where Han, despite devoting his life it finding it, cannot
eagles
>MF runs like dream and rings around everything... as it always -- fuck technological advancement
eagles
>lead antagonist is an emo faggot with anger management issues
eagles
>no one bothers to at least put a bead on the shit wannabe while Han's confronting him
eagles
>Death Star: QTE Edition still a uselessly vulnerable piece of chink made shit
eagles
>Mary Sue can't fight for shit, but Darth An Hero is more shit
eagles
>Luke
eagles
>Luke's lightsaber... who gives a fuck
eagles
>map to Luke right there -- batteries needed
eagles...
if you wanna be a retard, do it on your own time -- thanks
>>63950913
>If you don't think about it you can have fun.
so... lobotomise oneself before watching, is the recommendation?
>>63951113
>fantasiZE
>suFur
>labOr
>pEdophile
>COULD care less
>begs ("raises") the question...
and you wonder why the U.S. is a failed state, glorified Somali ghetto in a perpetual undeclared civil war
>>63951097
Every one knew of Ben, he was a local legend.
Leia freaked out about alderaan.
Only one exhaust port was open, not saying there was only one.
He never MET his kids
Yodas training did not do that much, it was the second session between empire and Jedi that improved him
What clairvoyance?
Obi wan is a liar, that's true.
I don't see what you mean about obi and Leia
Maybe Leia is kinky, Fischer sure is.
>>63951097
the reason all of this gets ignored in the OT is that they're actually well-made movies
TFA is a mess in terms of pacing, editing, and characterization, so people are less willing to ignore those smaller flaws
>>63951352
>TFA is a mess in terms of pacing, editing, and characterization
Except, no.
>>63951352
>the reason all of this gets ignored in the OT is that they're actually well-made movies
>>63951364
Oh, really?
you don't think it's a problem that 90% of the movie is action sequences?
you don't think it's a problem that the camera is constantly spinning, shaking, and twisting around even in basic dialogue scenes?
this movie had so many issues other than the "muh sjw" things that people mention here
>>63951364
>Except, no.
except, one CGI set piece after the other
except no exposition whatsoever, only explosions
except no character development
expect cookie cutter... everything
except even this guy could do a better fans service copy pasta el dante than that penile prepuce pauper
>>63951097
>How did R2D2 just happen to find the kid who knew Ben Kenobi?
Kenobi was a local crazy old man. Most people in that part of tatooine knew about him. R2 found a kid who knew Kenobi, not the kid.
>Why does Leia not react at all to the destruction of her home planet?
Leia did react to Alderaan getting destroyed. Did you even watch ANH?
>How does a space station the size of a small moon vent heat through one exhaust port?
Got me there.
>Vader is clueless about the existence of his own children despite his force senses literally being able to pick up this shit.
This is a hole, but unlike the new trilogy, it actually has a valid excuse. There was no plan to make Luke related to Vader by the time ANH was filmed.
>Why is Yoda's training able to make Luke a fairly competent Jedi in the span of a few days verses people who have done it for a lifetime?
He'd been training for much longer than in Dagobah. Christ, he was actually at the "moving shit" stage by the battle of Hoth.
>Palpatine never uses his clairvoyance to anticipate the rebels' movements.
Your only really valid point so far.
>You have to accept Kenobi is a fucking liar even in the original trilogy because they made everything up as they go along even though it makes no sense for him to do so
What?
>Obi-wan completely forgets Leia exists, as far as any kind of action goes, and doesn't bring them in on their plans
Ah. Prequels. Again, by the time ANH was being filmed the prequels were likely much different in Lucas's mind. This shit cannot be applied to the new trilogy, since the entire franchise is now under the watchful eye of Disney. They've already rewritten Ant-Man's script to tie it in better with the MCU.
>Leia "always knew" Luke was her brother but kissed him anyway
See above. By the time Empire was being filmed, Luke was going to have a different force using sister.
Most of your 9 plotholes over an entire trilogy are filled. Compare that to JJ's listed 40 in one movie.
>>63951491
>think
>TFA shills
>a brain
>>63951338
>Leia freaked out about alderaan.
for like five seconds and then never again
>>63951352
>the reason all of this gets ignored in the OT is that they're actually well-made movies
this is what we call a nostalgia filter
guess what genius; all works of fiction have fucking minor plot points that make you scratch your head and go "what?"
>>63951581
>guess what genius; all works of fiction have fucking minor plot points that make you scratch your head and go "what?"
that's literally my point
im not disagreeing that the OT has plot holes
I'm saying that they are otherwise well crafted movies and so people don't really care about those plot holes
>>63951581
>for like five seconds and then never again
>this guy would literally rather watch Leia be dejected and sad and whining about "muh home planet" than what we ended up getting
You literally want ANH to be a shitty as TFA. Go home, Disney.
>>63944659
>complains about kylo having vader's mask even though his dad was there when they burned it, but doesn't complain about the resistance having a light saber that fell into the middle of a fucking gas giant
>goes out of the way saying that the emperor never used giant holograms
that was a waste of time
I think Huff Po need to learn what a plot hole is
>>63951607
>I'm saying that they are otherwise well crafted movies and so people don't really care about those plot holes
the very fact you have to explain so patently obvious, renders the conversation you're having one-way redundant
>you're speaking to the wall
>Wouldn't [Snoke] using holographic technology to make himself appear huge be a pathetic affection signaling deep-seeded insecurities? Even the Emperor never did that; he just appeared normal-sized or tiny.
I agree with a lot of this guy's points and was disappointed with TFA, but Palpatine literally did project himself as huge in Empire.
Snoke in this case probably is enormous, as he and other things in this are based on early unused McQuarrie designs.
>>63951525
if they're going to make shit up as they go along, they should make sure that the shit they make up is thematically and logically consistent with what was written before.
Is lying in Obi-wan's character? Yes, now, after thirty+ odd years of canon, it is. But is it logical for him to do so? It makes Obi-wan out to be stupidly incompetent when you think about it too hard because it makes Luke make stupid decisions and come closer to the dark side. So now, it's in character for him to lie, but under scrutiny, it's unclear why someone in Obi-wan's position would fucking think this was a good idea. And this is IN THE ORIGINAL TRILOGY, you don't need the weirdness of the prequels to see this as flimsy and stupid.
It's a fucking flimsy justification they created to make an idea they had later work. "They didn't think of this when they scripted ANH" is not a get out of jail free card for poor plotting after the fact.
>>63947520
BECAUSE SHE'SHER DAUGHTER
>>63951633
She doesn't have to be dejected and sad, she just has to react like a fucking human being who lost her parents. Fuck, maybe Luke could fucking inspire her to persevere despite what happened, thus kickstarting their friendship.
>>63951679
again, TFA demonstrates the propensity for bringing tards to the yard is strong with this schlock
>clearly just an enlarged visage
>kojira-sized smeagol
>ignoring the fact jew jew ripped off even this trivial element of the OT... and fucked it up
>>63951525
>Your only really valid point so far.
Do you faggots even watch the movies? Seriously him knowing the rebels' movements is pretty much the entire plot of RotJ
>>63944659
>10. For that matter, why is it made to seem like the entire Republic is centered in just one star system? Let alone one whose planets and moons are all visible to one another with the naked eye? Isn't the Republic intergalactic? And why did the First Order choose to destroy all the planets and moons visible from Maz Kanata's home-world, but then initiate a conventional invasion of the latter planet? Why not just fire one more planet-killing beam and destroy Kanata's planet too? Because not doing that leads to a significant military defeat for the First Order that was totally avoidable. And another thing: if the Republic is in power, why is the Resistance the "Resistance"? What are they resisting? Isn't the First Order the "Resistance," as they're resisting the hegemony of the Republic? It's like someone on-set said "the Rebels need a new name," without realizing that the political situation in the Galaxy had totally changed since the events of the previous films.
This is what pissed me off the most about the resistance
>>63951731
>but Palpatine literally did project himself as huge in Empire.
no -- just his face. there's an edifice-sized smeagal's difference here
that, and the very fact THIS, of all arguments, is what Tard Faggots Association are hinging their heaped praise of the cock-skin-less khaza's homogenisation of SW on, is in and of itself an admission of clinical retardation
>>63951857
>complaining about sci-fi scale in fucking Star Wars
>>63951753
Sure, I'll agree it's no excuse, but you can't criticize one movie strictly because its followup forgot to check its facts. That's like saying Spider-Man was lazily made because there was no hint that Thomas Hayden Church shot Uncle Ben. That's not the fault of the films, but with the filmmakers.
Also, my point was that you were putting in plotholes that only retrospectively became plotholes because of later movies. Most of the problems presented in the huffpost article were contained in only the one movie, and quite a few of them were valid points.
>>63950751
Star Wars ships do not need and have never needed fuel. Blasters don't need to be reloaded.
>>63951903
>just his face
So I guess the Wizard of Oz wasn't being insecure since his massive projection was only his face, too.
Don't think I didn't fucking hate TFA; its only good move was looking at the McQuarrie concept art that went unused and JJ shit the bed everywhere else. I was just saying the guy flat denied that there was no large projection of Emperor in the OT, and this is absolutely false.
>>63951918
several of those are plot holes in ANH
if I think harder about them I'm sure I can come up with more for a single movie
>>63950751
Han says he found the falcon because it's "dirty" meaning it can be tracked in space if you know what you're looking for. He even asks Rey, "you think it was a coincidence I found the Falcon so fast?"
It's a children's movie. Just sit back and enjoy it.
>>63944659
>huffington post
like 90% of those aren't even plot holes
why do people keep misusing that term?
>>63951958
do blasters LASERS draw blood with every shot?
do X-Wing laser cannons have a 'stun' setting which they switch in and out of?
does a lightsaber slash on a defenceless, elderly target need to be wielded like sledgehammer to granite in order to make on look tough?
does a guy who can stop laser light, mid-air, have to eschew using any of his force powers while fighting janitors and asexual, likely sapphic Mary Sues?
does a numbskull nignog who's spinal column is cauterised by hot plasma, awake in the next film in order pursue the object of his jungle lust desires?
>>63951999
And severale of the ANH plotholes were filled.
For example, you literally said that Leia didn't react to Alderaan getting destroyed at all, which she actually did.
Sure, she didn't linger on it or swear revenge, but did she really have to? We knew she just watched her homeworld get destroyed, and she literally got to help plan and destroy the thing that caused it. Watching her cry more often or make any proclamations of what she ended up doing anyway wouldn't have helped the narrative any.
>>63951994
I did not read his denial of the use of oversized projections in the OT... only that shmeagol obviously has a Napoleon complex for using such an extravagant image of his otherwise laughably ridiculous-looking self
aside from that, the author prefaces the article with "some of these are admittedly nitpicks"... or can people not read?... or see the 39 other listed Tellitubbies moments the films sports?
>>63952124
are you fucking kidding me? None of what she does is fucking realistic. No one walks off the death of everything they ever loved in a matter of hours. The next time we see her she's sitting like a kid who got sent to her room and sassing Luke with teenaged putdowns. Does she get to business? Sure. But it's no different from the rest of the time we see her out of her cell.
You don't need fucking wangst to actually treat that loss like it's fucking human. Remember, Fischer, Hamill, and Ford have all criticized the OT's scripts and Lucas's direction. There was a reason for that, and it's not unique to the prequels.
>>63951857
Nothing in Star Wars is intergalactic. It takes place in the same galaxy and actually in a very small region of the Galaxy. The republic most likely influences many systems but that was the "home" system.
Pointing out plot holes is for untalented hacks who don't know how to criticize movies. This is something the Nostalgia Critic & co would do.
Literally every movie in history has plotholes, and unless you are making a crime novel, it literally doesnt matter
>>63952114
thinking the same thing tbqh mate baka a bit here
>>63951857
They couldn't destroy Maz Kanata's home world because they needed the map to Luke which was on the planet.
>>63952233
addendum: no one bitches about Leia's character more than fucking Carrie Fischer, jesus christ people.
Holy shit #2 didn't even think about it when I saw the movie but now reading it sounds retarded as fuck
>>63952261
Back to the Future?
>>63952294
>>63952246
>>63951916
>>63951857
Let me stop being a retard and cut down to the relevant part
>And another thing: if the Republic is in power, why is the Resistance the "Resistance"? What are they resisting? Isn't the First Order the "Resistance," as they're resisting the hegemony of the Republic? It's like someone on-set said "the Rebels need a new name," without realizing that the political situation in the Galaxy had totally changed since the events of the previous films.
>>63952016
so? Han can say whatever he wants at that point because the scene has already fisted itself to haemorrhage...
it's simply a very poorly (read: APATHETICALLY) scripted film because Disney only wanted a 'safe' TFA that ensured a big return and did not stymie the chances of the next film doing the same -- cue: Jew Jew Covenant of Abraham
the masses are the majority -- retards and the poor breed the most (see: africa, the middle east et al.). so, as long as they're satisfied, the cycle of dumbing down continues and those in their penthouse piss streams over the balcony onto the plebes below and laugh... and so they should
>>63952337
they are resisting the spread of a fucking tyrannical regime that imposes its authority over multiple systems. The First Order is an insurgency, not a resistance.
Citizen Kane has plot holes
What's your point
>>63952374
you act like the original star wars is high cinema
>>63951958
>Star Wars ships do not need and have never needed fuel.
>The hyperdrive is leaking.
>We'll have to land somewhere to refuel and repair the ship.
>>63952411
It was.
>>63952411
nope. I act like it was SEMINAL cinema
you act like TFA wasn't brain-rot... and that's just sad
>>63944659
>39. Why would the First Order spend untold quadrillions of [insert unit of money here] to build the Starkiller Base, when a similar concept and design plan had twice before been destroyed with minimal difficulty by the rebels?
>>63952448
>>63952458
no, they're actually very dumb stories.
Holy shit - is this true?
>7. Rey, who has never left her home planet since she was a child, can speak Wookie. Nobody can speak Wookie -- it's a running joke in the Star Wars universe. But Rey being able to speak Wookie surprises neither her, Han Solo, nor Chewbacca himself.
Hahaha - and you're telling me she's NOT a Mary Sue?
>>63951513
the literal only way you could claim there is no character development is if you ignored any character who isn't white and make in this film and even then you're still wrong.
>>63944659
There’s an interesting point in the comments; if the first order's intentions were to capture BB-8 and retrieve the data from him, why were they firing on him, Rey and Finn? That's a pretty big plot hole.
>>63952576
But everyone understands Wookiee
>>63952576
>Nobody can speak Wookie
hurr fuckin durr
>>63952576
she never speaks wookie from what I recall. She understands Chewbacca, which fucking Han and later the rest of the OT main characters could fucking do
>>63951097
>Palpatine never uses his clairvoyance to anticipate the rebels' movements.
What are you talking about? That's literally his entire plan in episode VI.
>Why is Yoda's training able to make Luke a fairly competent Jedi in the span of a few days verses people who have done it for a lifetime?
He's not competent at all. He levitates a few rocks and then goes and gets his hand chopped off.
>>63952576
>Holy shit - is this true?
So you havent seen the movie, yet you are claiming shes a mary sue
stay classy /tv/
>>63952675
*Also, Luke had presumably been training in between Episode IV and Episode V, and he's already capable of doing the most basic stuff with the Force before he even meets Yoda because of that.
14 is stupid. Finn wasn't afraid they would come after him specifically, he was afraid they would come after the pilot he helped escape. In fact the First Order never really comes after him, he just gets caught up in the whole BB-8 chase thing. If Finn had gone his own separate way no one would've cared.
>>63950913
It's more simple than that. RLM likely didn't want to have to deal with a shit storm from the community if they honestly didn't like it so they just said they liked it regardless.
>>63952675
>What are you talking about? That's literally his entire plan in episode VI.
then why doesn't he fucking do it before then?
>He's not competent at all. He levitates a few rocks and then goes and gets his hand chopped off.
By virtue of not fucking dying after five seconds, and then being able to fucking outsmart an entire criminal organization without any further guidance from Yoda, he's "fairly competent"
okay, 'geniuses' -
why did leia send han to his death, knowing full well the risks invovled... and why didn't the fuzzball shoot (or at least posture to shoot) the emo when han was readying for martyrdom?
there are only two explanations:
1. leia is dark and influenced chewbacca in some way (perhaps with threats to his home planet) to let / facilitate (which he did) han's meeting with gaylord -- i.e., she / they conspired to kill handjob
2. (the most likely scenario) -- jew jew is about as subtle with his plot devices as the jews are with their palestinian metastasisation
A lot of these are nitpicky or could be explained in the next two movies.
>>63944659
Don't give huffpost ad revenue, here's the archived article.
https://archive.is/CZdGO
>>63952869
Because they both wanted to fucking try and save Ben, and Han needed to put his life at risk to do so
sniping Ren and then dragging him to the base would have only made shit worse, especially considering we know he can fucking tank a bowcaster shot that is a one shot kill on stormtroopers wearing armor
>>63952749
...and you could see the partrurient 'santa' in the middle forbearing his critique... almost like they'd made some prior pact not to rip on the thing too much
the zionist disney arms stretches far indeed...
>>63951958
x-wings on Yarvin would like a word with you
Han Solo specifically states he was looking for the MF, and that if he could find it the First Order could too.
Luke exiles himself like both YODA AND OBI WAN do. Do we blame them for the millions killed? He's the last fucking Jedi for christs sake.
General Hux gathers everyone because it's the very thing they're all indoctrinated to do, destroy the resistance. Why wouldn't they all be there?
They send two of his closest friends and his daughter to find Luke. What? Were they gonna send the rest of the resistance all at once?
Kylo taking his helmet off isn't a plot hole.
I fucking hate people like the dude who wrote the article. Half of these are straight up nitpicks.
>>63944659
TFA faggots BTFO
Only two or three points I disagree with and can be explained. The rest really show how terrible TFA was.
34. How do the Rathtars on Han's freighter get loose?
They are freed by Rey by magically hitting switches below the floor
38. Is Supreme Leader Snoke actually a giant?
I dont think so, and it is obvious he appears tall and imposing to look intimidating. I dont see how that is a plot hole though
27. How did Kylo Ren manage to get Darth Vader's mask into his little fetish den? Why doesnt Rey sell the helmet?
I dont see how that is a plot hole either. He clearly got it from Endor or sum shit.
Rey's helmet is another story. She clearly loves it, so it's normal that she doesnt sell it, more so when she can make a living out of selling normal junk. What I would have changed though is the value. I would have made Rey's helmet a very, very valuable possession in general, so when the alien captures BB8, instead of just freeing him and getting away with it, Rey should have traded her helmet for the droid, and the alien should have walked away with the helmet on its head for comical relief.
The fact that the Huffington post makes this list really shows how JJ is a fucking HACK FRAUD
Mad Max comes out
>Smashes expectations
>is memorable, non-stop, balls-to-the-wall action
>isn't a rehash (inb4 Road Warrior chase)
>R-rated
>doesn't rely on fan service of man-children
>Fantastic score
>directed by an old man
>original, incredible characters
>Living, breathing worlds
Star wars
>literally no memorable lines
>Disney/Marvel humour
>weird tone
>Affirmative action (Finn > Rey though desu)
>uninspired story/remake
>OT characters brought back and used sparingly
>Garbage CGI - Snoke looked pretty good though
>can't tell you anything about the score
>JJ's trademark lens flares
>Han's bullshit death
>no substance
>doesn't linger with you
>bland, made-for-tv direction
>Deus ex Machina for the endless sequels
>relies so desperately on pandering and callbacks (dude trash compactors!! LMAO)
3 words - Hella F*ckin Epic
>>63952932
what I wanna know is why did Chewbacca shoot Kylo after he killed Han? Like yes I know he killed han but its still hans son.
What if Chewie did kill Kylo from that shot and then Han comes back as a force ghost and says "Hey, Chewie. Wheres my son? Was anyone able to save him? Is he still with Snoke? I hope hes okay!"
>>63944659
this is hardly plot holes just shit the faggot author didn't like.
>>63944659
It was the will of The Force.
/thread
>>63952337
It's pretty clear (although it will never be acknowledged in canon) that Leia is a radical bitch and the "Resistance" is just an euphemism.
the Resistance is just a terrorist group sponsored by the Republic, pretty much like what NATO and the west is doing sponsoring mercs and terrorists in Syria and the middle east.
>>63952990
hey reddit
>>63951097
>- Why is Yoda's training able to make Luke a fairly competent Jedi in the span of a few days verses people who have done it for a lifetime?
Luke was barely as good as the kid the took out four clone troopers and then got shot in E3
>>63953029
>implying Reddit doesn't like TFA
DUDE REDDIT LMAO
>>63953029
I thought reddit were the ones that liked Star Wars
>>63952932
>sniping Ren and then dragging him to the base would have only made shit worse
i don't think it could have ended up worse than it did (in-movie and out) and your grasping for excuses is delicious!
you know the mickey mouse direction of these films will never take anything but the path of least resistance and that there's no way Leia will ever go dark - as intriguing as such a twist would sure be (how do they keep finding these rebel bases anyway...?) - so you pull a godtard -- make shit up as you go along
what's your excuse for gaylord going force-deaf just as Solo is right up his bony ass?
>>63952949
>partrurient
I'm not sure you know what that word means...
>>63953053
>>63953059
fuck off redditors
>>63944659
>nobody can understand wookie
Han, revan, mission off the top of my head
>>63952994
because the most important person in the world aside from his wife is fucking dead now and Ren passed the point of no return.
also how the fuck is a non-Jedi like Han supposed to become a force ghost
>>63953082
>Is a Redditor
>Has memeittor opinions
>calls others Redditors
>>63950751
It was the will of The Force.
>>63951097
>- Palpatine never uses his clairvoyance to anticipate the rebels' movements.
E6 you must have missed the entire movie.
>>63953069
are you fucking kidding me?
Yes, kidnapping Kylo Ren and taking him back to the rebel base where he can wake up, escape, and KILL MULTIPLE REBEL LEADERS, is a great strategy. I'm surprised they didn't try to do it to Vader!
>>63947520
this isn't a plothole. Not gonna give them a click but I'm assuming 99% of them aren't actual plotholes but just things they want to complain about.
>>63952335
Time travel brings nothing but potential plot holes to the picture.
>>63953112
reddit actually hates TFA
suspiciously like you do
>>63953123
as I keep saying
WHY DOES HE NEVER DO THIS BEFORE
This is new powers as the plot fucking demands. Why didn't he use his fucking magic clairvoyance to inform Tarkin and Vader what was going to be happening to the Death Star? For that matter, why the fuck didn't they just move it after they escaped with Leia? Why remain in the same damn spot? If it's going to destroy worlds it clearly has a fucking hyperdrive.
>>63953194
How would you know that, unless you're a plebbitor?
The only big plot hole was why that captain stormtrooper chick folded like a house of cards even though she was a brainwashed from birth hypno soldier devoted to the First Order
>>63953224
Thats not a fucking plothole
>>63952965
>Han Solo specifically states he was looking for the MF, and that if he could find it the First Order could too.
so, the MF is auto-cloaked when park in the open on tatooine v2.0?
>Luke exiles himself like both YODA AND OBI WAN do. Do we blame them for the millions killed? He's the last fucking Jedi for christs sake.
reheat it and they will come
>General Hux gathers everyone because it's the very thing they're all indoctrinated to do, destroy the resistance. Why wouldn't they all be there?
what's so special about firing off their load? what general of any military, in wartime, corrals WALL their troops into one area for the potential slaughter?... not even a one-testicle Hitler would be that stupid
>They send two of his closest friends and his daughter to find Luke. What? Were they gonna send the rest of the resistance all at once?
no one knows she's of Luke's jizz yet and the macguffin of the schlock IS Luke -- why send only some wild animal and a newbie they know nothing of?
>Kylo taking his helmet off isn't a plot hole.
no. it just kills the notion of an imposing antagonist dead... thereby nullifying the entire premise of the film (...unless one thinks mega smeagol looks scary)
>I fucking hate people like the dude who wrote the article. Half of these are straight up nitpicks.
you should hate YOURSELF, because he fucking stated "SOME ARE NITPICKS"... and the underlying point is, when a film has THAT MANY GLARING PLOT HOLES, the nitpicks also become accentuated
>stop being a blinkered faggot and admit you worship as the schlock fountain
>>63951245
>fantasiZe
Muh S
>suFur
Not a word. I'm guessing you meant sulFur, in which case, muh PH
>labOr
Muh U
>pEdophile
Muh A
>COULD care less
Improper grammar in all dialects
>begs the question
Improper usage in all dialects
You're complaining about trivial bullshit that doesn't alter the usability or logic of the language, or shit that just isn't true.
>>63953210
Well he used it to make the damn galactic empire and they did move the Deathstar. To where Yarvin is to destroy it.
>>63953300
>no. it just kills the notion of an imposing antagonist dead... thereby nullifying the entire premise of the film (...unless one thinks mega smeagol looks scary)
you're really stupid and it's still not a plothole
>>63953300
so much butthurt in a single response
you are grasping to any straw you can to hate this movie
just admit its good already anon
just let it in
>>63953224
the same question could be directed at the affirmative action Jar Jar stand-in
>"plot-hole" """"""discussions""""""""
>>63953078
open your gob and I demonstrate... though the 'baby' might be 'niggardly' in nature
>>63953224
how is it a plothole when the first order has been clearly shown to be a band of retards?
>>63953300
>no. it just kills the notion of an imposing antagonist dead... thereby nullifying the entire premise of the film
Dude, the entire point of his character is he's a guy who's trying to act like Darth Vader, thus it makes sense for him to go between his "Vader persona" (the mask) and just plain ole Kylo Ren. He's not a Vader type villain.
>>63953346
i do not hate non sentient objects
i do hate rodentia who heap praise of steam shit which then leads to more steaming shit beign being evacuated onto cinema screens
isn't one Transformers franchise enough? must all nice things be wrecked for the sake of enriching the already pathologically rich?
I'm not reading this article, but wouldn't a plot hole about the movie be who is Snoke and where the hell did he come from?
>>63953442
There's a difference between "plothole" and "yet to be revealed".
>38. Is Supreme Leader Snoke actually a giant? Because if not, wouldn't him using holographic technology to make himself appear huge be a pathetic affection signaling deep-seeded insecurities? Even the Emperor never did that;
>even the emperor never did that
are they fucking serious?
>>63953441
you dont honestly believe TFA is as bad as the transformers films right?
>>63953424
you do have a point there
>dwelling on the definition of "plot hole" when the underlying substandard nature of the film is the only issue of import
>>63953336
And the rebels know where it's heading. Fucking HIDE THAT SHIT, don't fucking ask to be targeted, you FUCKING KNOW THEY KNOW YOUR WEAKNESS
>>63953489
>Huffington Post
Yes they are
>>63953148
most of them are pretty significant plot holes
They're not all plot holes, just shitty writing. Which is still a bad thing, so you can't say "OH THAT'S NOT A PLOT HOLE!" to all criticism.
>>63948021
>it was just a prank! it wasn't serious!
>>63953563
I doubt it. I bet they're all or mostly "why didn't X act like/do what I wanted them to"
>>63953563
a plothole is an impossibility, not something thats stupid
theres like 2 plotholes in that list, the rest are just nitpicks
RLM and /tv/ redditors on sudoku watch
The plot hole is the trash dialog I mean all of it is shit from start to finish.
>>63953437
>the entire point of his character is he's a guy who's trying to act like Darth Vader
sure... and that's retarded in and of itself:
- how does he even know of Vader? super smeagol bragging about someone he knew / cared little / nothing of? Luke couldn't speak highly enough of him and his youngling slaughtering ways...?
- why would a sith-alike even give a shit about emulating other sith -- that flies in the face of their very being.
- why is Vader the only real regal member of his lineage? were his cum sponge really THAT inbred that its progeny could only whelp whiny boy-children?
- the character is not imposing and literally "try-hard", in every sense of the term -- a weak antagonist makes for weak protagonist motivations makes for a weak film. /first day at film school
>>63953493
that's like asking Hitler if he thinks jews were as bad as nigs were as bad as slavs were as bad as retards
>varying degrees of shit
>>63953690
m8, YOU are literally trying too hard.
>>63953489
Palpatine did that TO HIS FACE... not himself... to and edifice-sized degree
>dwelling on what the author already owned to as nitpicks because the bulk of the critique is solid and paints the film as the irrevocable bilge it clearly is
>>63944659
>34. How do the Rathtars on Han's freighter get loose?
Why did R2 randomly turn himself on?
What if the base was destroyed by the Starkiller with R2 on it?
Would the map and Luke be lost forever as a result?
>>63953748
that's one thing you could never accuse of jew jew of...
>>63953828
>e lost forever
yes
>>63953786
>Palpatine did that TO HIS FACE... not himself
same difference
>>63953803
how come the vagina dentata wheelie-balls weren't into eating black meat?
>>63953803
so a plothole is literally missing something or just not getting an unnecessary explanation? got it.
>>63953828
>Would the map and Luke be lost forever as a result?
A True New Hope
>>63953148
You are correct. They could have put together a good list of maybe 10 plotholes but more higher, more shocking number = more clicks so they padded it out with everything they didn't like.
>>63953848
>same difference
don't forget to use that one for the trap threads
>>63953909
>more higher
Fuck you I'm tired.
>>63952576
She can magically understand the beeps and boops of the droid too.
>>63953909
>they didn't like.
implying huffpos are the only ones who saw something wrong with Tard Faggots Association
Think the problem, wasn't necessarily plot holes, but that the movie was too fast paced, and things were constantly happening for plot convenience without proper exposition or set ups.
Like you could of had scenes that showed hints that Rey had innate force powers earlier in the movie, only for them to "awaken" later. You could've had her explain to Finn that she'd spent time on the Falcon beforehand, helping to get it spaceworthy.
>>63944659
>first one is absolute bullshit
Why would I even bother reading?
>>63953148
>Not gonna give them a click
Le buttmad Disney shill
>>63954011
this
but that's the modern action "blockbuster" for you -- leave your brain at the door or take an ice cream scoop and start at the frontal cortex
...and it will just get worse and worse -- see: video games
>>63954011
>I need my autism to be satiated
nah man. And cool it with the, commas.
>>63951119
Yes, most of the ones you listed are eagles tier
>Han lost the MF and can't find it
>lead antagonist is an emo faggot with anger management issues
Shit like this, which comprises most of your list and the one in the OP, is just things you didn't like about the plot, not plot holes
>>63954025
I like how you took me not saying thing about the movie and turned me into a fanboy. Awesome leap.
>>63954021
>Why would I even bother reading?
why read when you can have it CGI'd onto a screen for you instead?
>>63954063
still playing semantics with "plot hole"...
>>63951119
>>MF sitting in pawn dealers lot for decades where Han, despite devoting his life it finding it, cannot
can't track my iphone if it's turned off m8. Turn it on and find my iphone picks it up....which is what happened int he movie.
>>63951338
>Every one knew of Ben, he was a local legend.
What would he be legendary for? Not for being a Jedi, he was literally in hiding and using a fake name.
>>63954106
if you're gonna call something (or a list of things) a plothole and it isn't, you're not setting yourself up properly for an argument. Just say "this is a list of things I'm too autismal to like"
>>63954071
Stay buttmad shill
>>63954171
stay retarded retard
>>63953690
>How does he even know about Vader?
HE'S HIS FUCKING GRANDSON
>>63953284
It's an illogical event i.e a plot hole.
The entire plan hinged on the shield coming down and it was only possible because a brainwashed super evil captain fanatic chick was like "lol k just fuck my evil base up" with no problem
Why did they chooose that British toff bitch. Sounds so out of place.
And what mixed race mongrel is kylo ren? He is so ugly and weird looking.
>>63954254
>It's an illogical event i.e a plot hole.
um, no. Illogical doesn't mean plot hole. A plot hole is something that contradicts itself. Just because you think something is illogical doesn't mean it's a plot hole.
>>63954197
Someone is mad they pointed flaws at this thinly-veiled capeshit movie.
>>63954340
double down m8, you might get there.
>>63954299
But if the characters don't all act exactly how I want and expect them to act that means it's a plot hole!
Also if I wasn't paying attention and missed something that explains the following immediate sequence that means it's a plot hole too!
>>63954072
Is this b8?
I'm saying the first item on the list was so stupid there's no reason to continue.
Who cares. It's a fucking Star Wars movie, made for existing Star Wars fans (myself included) and kids (so they can sell a shit load of merch.)
I loved the thing. It was fun, entertaining and felt like a Star Wars film should. Obviously it had flaws, but it did the job it had to. Entertain, and make geeks like me happy.
Plus Daisy Ridley's hot as fuck in it.
>>63952773
> he's "fairly competent"
thats what made it so good. The force was subtle, a mixture of luck, good instincts and minor powers. today its just overpowered.
and every time he made a mistake he paid for it
>>63950347
More like 5 hours.
>>63954815
>I loved the thing. It was fun
Always the first thing plebs say when they have to defend a piece of trash movie with no substance or soul whatsoever. But yeah, it's fun! Bro, just turn off your brain!
>>63952965
Yoda literally challenged Palpatine and lost. He went into exile because he knew he could not beat Palpatine. Obi Wan went into exile to protect Luke and Leia, who were the offspring of the very powerful Anakin Skywalker.
Their potential force sensitivity would be valuable and one of the last remaining means to develop a Jedi capable of defeating Palpatine (something that Obi Wan knew he wasn't).
These reasons are given to you. You are retarded.
>>63955032
>using literally for emphasis
>>63954989
>But yeah, it's fun! Bro, just turn off your brain!
Fuck-oath. It's a fucking big-budget blockbuster popcorn flick. If you were expecting some kind of modern day masterpiece you're a fucking retard
>no substance or soul whatsoever
Substance....yeah nah not really. No soul? TFA had shit loads of soul.
>>63955314
I was expecting a movie with a coherent plot, an actual climax and a story that would surprise me rather than just show the same fucking movie as ANH with more brown actors which still managed to be leaking with plot holes. 10/10 Disney. You out-did yourselves.
>>63953615
>won't read the article because he doesn't like le evil domain name
kill yourself
HuffPo is shit for news but this is an opinion column and opinion columns are always wildcards regardless of what the source is
you're just scared your dank maymay movie is actually as shit as the prequels were.and it is
>>63955501
Hey, you are being way too hard on the prequels. I'm rewatching Revenge of the Sith and it's completely passable for a Star Wars movie. TFA isn't even that. It's capeshit-
All the "coincidence " stuff can be explained as The Force, son.
Ain't gotta explain shit.
>>63948021
Comments like this make me fucking diaspair, if all you want is simple, dumb fun with plotholes out the ass the Furious 7 was an infinitely better movie than this one. It at least had characters who had motivations that were easy to understand and care about. What on earth has Star Wars done to deserve this level of adoration?
>>63955371
The film is not without it's flaws, no doubt, but fans wanted a Star Wars film and they got a Star Wars film.
I went in with very neutral expectations, but from the opening crawl I thought "this is gonna be good" and I thought it was good. Great in fact, for a Star Wars film. It was never gonna be another Empire Strikes Back.
>>63955771
Can you stop make it seem like everyone who liked Star Wars loved this movie? Because that's clearly not the case. And treating ESB as something out of the ordinary when it's the best of the series is also just damage controlling an incredibly shallow and inconsistent movie that is far more concerned with capeshit tropes than actually being a SW movie. Despite them copy-pasting ANH, it didn't even feel SW. It felt like some hollow imitation with modern liberal sensibilities shoved into it. Yes, a glib facsimile.
>>63944659
>has to start the article saying he loved the movie because otherwise he would be basically throwing mud at the whole edifice
kek
Anyone notice how JJ really sucks at understanding scale?
>Han and Chewie get to the Falcon before Finn and Rey attempt to go to hyperspace, they got there fucking fast
>Multiple planets all seen right next to each other
>You can go down to a planet and literally bump into someone you know
>Poe just up and left and somehow on his own beat Finn and Rey to the Resistance base
>A weapon the size of a planet has just one control for each aspect of it
>A weapon the size of a planet explodes when you shoot one part of it
>It sucked up the power of the sun that can blow up five planets at a time but when it explodes it's a thankfully slow and relatively less powerful explosion so the heroes can easily get away in time
He was really bad at this in the Star Trek movies too
He also did ridiculous shit like breaking the known conventions of the universe, like in Start Trek with the transporting across star systems, and now here with the going to lightspeed from inside a ship, and coming out of lightspeed in the atmosphere of a planet. (I'm pretty sure I remember in the OT they had to wait for a computer to plot their course before they make the jump to lightspeed, they don't seem to do that anymore). He keeps pulling shit that breaks the future movies if they never use these abilities again.
>>63955863
This is how every article that criticizes the movie now starts. God forbid you go against the flow. Now every time someone points out a flaw, they need to have a disclaimer somewhere saying none of the criticism actually matters.
>>63955873
>(I'm pretty sure I remember in the OT they had to wait for a computer to plot their course before they make the jump to lightspeed, they don't seem to do that anymore)
They had to wait for the computer to plot it so they didn't land in the middle of the planet, or sun, etc. And it was really only mentioned in the first one, after that one every time they used lightspeed they mentioned it was preset coordinates
this whole list is retarded but the one i don't get at all is about rey's helmet. i don't understand: she wears two diff headgear in the flick/movie and neither are strange for her to have and both are clearly junk. what the fuck are they even talking about?
>>63951958
In Ep3, Obi-Wan lands on that planet to find General Coughtsalot and the first thing out of his mouth is a request for fuel for his ship.
>>63954815
>says he loves star wars
>lol who cares if it's actually good as long as they remind me of other movies I can watch RIGHT NOW if I was so inclined.
Seriously, go back to reddit, I assume they're eating this up. I love star wars, and I wanted this to be a good movie. What I got was It's Like Poetry So That They Rhyme: The Plot, "good I guess" acting, le callback meme, omg practical effects 10/10, and largely forgettable digital effects.
This movie had nothing new or notable in it. The only good thing I can say is that it's obvious the people who made it really like SW in some sense.
>>63955771
>they got a star wars film
Nooooo, we got a "Hey guys look remember star wars I'm star wars!" film. Fanwankery and callbacks is not the same as good filmmaking.
>but from the opening crawl I thought "this is gonna be good"
>"new" the film was good when text moved up on a screen at an angle
Yes, truly a masterpiece.
When will literally reddits understand that le callbacks don't matter? Yeah, trust me, I remember ESB. Yes, you're also that franchise. Congratulations, movie.
Although, without them, people would see TFA for the heaping pile of "meh" that it is, so I guess it was a smart move on their part. Gotta make up for lack of filmmaking skill somehow, right?
>>63954048
>8 N
saying other have autism, complaining about punctuation baka family
>>63955672
the new movie has "star wars" in the title.
>>63956022
dubs confirm the truth
>>63955873
JJ just doesn't care about plot logic, and he's not making films for people who do. It's totally simple. He approaches films as being based around the pacing of emotional beats.
Of course he won't admit this directly because it would undercut his authority as a director, but he's not attempting to make immersive universes.
>>63955672
This is my biggest issue with TFA actually. If it just wants to be a fun action flick then it should just be that. Give me a villain who wants to exploit people for money and a hero who takes them on to protect their family or some shit. The heroes weren't great but passable enough.
The villains on the other hand were outright terrible, how can I really care about the heroes' struggle if the villain is a whiny bitch baby with no clear motivations for doing what he's doing. They neither fail to make him a sympathetic slave to the dark side, with snoke being the real villain since he just comes across as whiny and then kills off a fan favourite. Neither is he the guy I thought he'd be at the beginning, a simple hardass like Vader which again would be easy to understand and hate. He ends up sort of caught in the middle where it's not clear how to feel about him. Snoke is just a non entity with absolutely no reason to do anything he's doing so he's even worse.
36. is dumb. The empire was known for being racist towards aliens
>>63952576
Leia and Luke understand Chewy just fine is not like Rey was growling like a wookie and talking back she just understood him
>>63956324
I lost my shit when Rey started speaking Jawa fluently.
>>63956187
>He approaches films as being based around the pacing of emotional beats.
Which is kind of weird considering how utterly absent any sense of pacing is in TFA.
>>63956380
She lives on the planet with those guys though, there's no problem there.
>Huffington mother fucking post
EL OH FUCKING EL you shit head.
>>63956395
>muh pacing
The argument of a beta pleb who has no idea wtf he's talking about and wants to sound intelligent.
I really like how luke's saber gave a plot relevant vision and backstory to Rey and becomes a pseudo holy grail and just glosses over how it ended the lives of at least a dozen children and dozens more force-users and who knows how many others
I agree with some of these (and others aren't necessarily plot holes, just really stupid writing. The fight at the end with Kylo Ren being a big example).
However, some of these are pretty retarded
>Nobody can speak Wookie -- it's a running joke in the Star Wars universe
Says who? Sounds like an EU faggot to me.
>What is all this nonsense about the First Order only wanting to destroy the Republic because the Republic is supporting the Resistance?
It's the reason for the speech, that's all.
>For that matter, why is it made to seem like the entire Republic is centered in just one star system?
The movie does not fucking say that. Jesus Christ, this dude is now making plot holes out of his own dumb interpretations.
>Than to worry about Finn? Why wouldn't this be obvious to him?
Because he's fucking shitting himself and wants to get as far away as possible. People don't think 100% logically at all times.
>By the end of the movie, the impression is left that every single First Order soldier is dead besides Supreme Leader Snoke, General Hux, and Kylo Ren
Again with his weird dumb interpretations
>If Plutt is enough of a baddie to order it stolen at all, why not just steal it from the outset instead of first offering some random urchin the biggest financial windfall she's ever seen?
Because he doesn't want to make a scene, dumbass
Lastly, the "How the fuck is the force a myth?" will be a plot hole that will continue forever in this series. It's been illogical since the very first movie.
>36. Why are all Stormtroopers human (or humanoid)? If by the time of the First Order any clones being raised to be Stormtroopers are no longer clones of Jango Fett, why aren't there now Stormtroopers of every species as well as every (human) race? Why aren't there flying Stormtroopers from the same species as, say, Watto (from The Phantom Menace)?
This one is dumb.
The empire and the sith are canonically known to favor humans and true-sith over every other species
REDDIT LETTER MEDIA ON SUICIDE WATCH
CROSSPOSTERS ON SUICIDE WATCH
>>63956452
when one of the most retarded publications in the whole world is capable of blowing your movie the fuck out, you just KNOW there's something wrong
WEW
>>63956678
>It's been illogical since the very first movie.
It made sense in the first movie. It's been illogical since the prequels showed how there's Jedi EVERYWHERE
>>63944659
Who cares about stuff like that. TFA really had more important problems.
>>63956883
No, it was retarded in the first movie too, because Luke had no idea about the force or lightsabers, but somehow knew of the existence of Jedi Knights and the Clone Wars, which were already very obviously connected by the time of the first movie, even before the prequels.
>10. For that matter, why is it made to seem like the entire Republic is centered in just one star system? Let alone one whose planets and moons are all visible to one another with the naked eye? Isn't the Republic intergalactic?
Intergalactic? I agree with most of their points, but this one is just wrong. The Empire/Republic has never spanned more than one galaxy.
>>63944659
>deus-ex-geology
ok i keked a lil
>>63956883
Theres hundreds of systems in the republic covering even more worlds each with millions if not billions of people. There was only a handful of jedi that by and large didnt go waving sabers and using force tricks everywhere they travelled. Why would anyone believe half the things jedi can do without seeing it themselves? Of course they would be tall tales and legends.
Why do 99% of all people say "cannon" instead of canon?
Am I missing something?
>>63953013
This. I don't see the problem.
NATO is far bigger and powerfull than Al Assad or ISIS, but there are rebels and resistance on their lands.
There was Empire and Republic, now First Order. And rebels and resistants aren't just a Republic task force.
It makes sense that they resist to something, in some part of the galaxy, it's just a location issue.
A lot of critics made sense, but this article is just complaining for the sack of it, and for clicks. Not really about non sensical things.
>>63957122
they're a bunch of loosers
>>63956678
>Lastly, the "How the fuck is the force a myth?" will be a plot hole that will continue forever in this series. It's been illogical since the very first movie.
What exactly is illogical about this? The Jedi have supernatural powers and have always been few. Why would anyone believe in that without having ever seen one?
>was raised without parents in a bad invironment surrounded by thiefs, murderers and other scum
>lack of food
>never been raped or sold herself for food
>healthy
>moral
>works as a space janitor
>won't sell a robot for a half a year worth of food
>highly moral
Seems legit
>better at force than Kylo right after learning she can use it
P O E T R Y
O
T
T
E
R
Y R E T P
>>63957122
because we don't want to insult the catholic canon
sorta like how the jews saying G-d
>>63957176
>never been raped or sold herself for food
how do you know?
>>63957170
Is the internet not a thing in space? Surely it would be well documented that the force is real combined with thousands of space youtube videos on the subject.
>>63957110
lol that chasm
that fucking chasm
I was doubting the quality of this movie the whole time, but that was the moment that closed the deal
>>63957247
I was implying.
I bet they've never thought about the society on Jakka and it's influence on her character.
Social being determines consciousness.
>>63957248
sheev wiped the internet
>>63957248
>space 4chan
http://strawpoll.me/6334686/r
>>63944659
>40 plotholes
Something tells me this is like the "plotholes" in Prometheus and Inception.
Those aren't plotholes, you're just a very simple person.
Looper has an actual plothole and it's just one at that.
>>63957248
Even if it was, people would probably think of the Jedi as some kind of illusionists.
>>63957248
Yes, because there aren't people who believe that Obama was born in Kenya, 9/11 was caused thermite, the holocaust never happened, etc.
You act like several galaxies are just going to all believe some shit they read or heard somewhere when we all live on one planet, one continent, or even one country and don't believe shit that happened less than 1000 miles away or ten years ago.
>>63957811
besides sheev probably made even talking about the jedi as illegal as holocaust denial..
>>63944659
>shitty marysue BTFO
>by huffpost
It's like losing at basketball to a retarded dwarf, holy keks.
we should stop calling them "marysues" and start calling them "reys" baka desu senpai
>>63951097
>Luke didn't know Ben Kenobi, R2 said he was looking for him, a lot of people around the area had probably heard of Ben Kenobi
>implying someone has to break down and scream NOOOO like RotS Vader to "react"
>implying it was the only exhaust port
>implying he wasn't specifically looking for Luke
>implying Luke was fully competent in the OT at all
>implying Palpatine doesn't: they get led into traps repeatedly
>implying that's a flaw with the OT and not the PT, since the PT was made after the OT and Lucas can't direct or write for shit
>implying this wasn't part of Obi-Wan concealing Vader's real identity from Luke
>implying women don't spout BS to save face
>I'm a cynical jaded prick so I'm going to make up plot holes and call the movie shit because of them: the article
Why do we allow 40 year old depressed people to write?
>was the massacre the first thing they had ordered Finn to do
Did these fucks even watch the movie? It was his first battle for gods sake.
>>63951364
I bet you liked JJ Trek too you fucking pleb
>mfw both of these once-great universes being dragged through the mud
>mfw kikes literally cannot stand the idea of anything existing in purity without being ruined
>mfw/pol/ was right again
>>63957995
paid by the word
he had about 10% legit points imo
>>63955032
Luke went into exile because he most likely couldn't defeat the Knights of Ren and felt guilty.
That and this is the first fucking film of three and Luke has said fucking nothing you idiot.
>>63955032
>Their potential force sensitivity would be valuable and one of the last remaining means to develop a Jedi capable of defeating Palpatine (something that Obi Wan knew he wasn't).
>"Send me to kill the Emperor. I will not kill Anakin."
Sounds like he was reasonably confident he had a chance against Palpatine to me.
>>63949835
>How long has Yoda been on stinkyplanet? How did he get there? Where was his ship? What does he eat? Is that water in the swamps potable? If not, what does he drink?
>>63957170
>have always been few
did you not watch attack of the fucking clones? these fuckers are everywhere. shit they can walk in to a bar and whip out their lightsabres and people don't look twice.
>>63951364
Pacing ....absolutely it is a mess. You can't argue that. The rest is debate.
>>63957176
>>better at force than Kylo
god no. kylo's command of the force was more impressive than anybody we've ever seen before. all she did was resist his mind probe a bit and snatch a lightsaber from him
>>63958062
>puerto-rican
what
>>63950817
Please be this stupid.
>But that's not really a plot hole. That's just like.. somethin that's stupid.
"Han, do you think we should tell little Ben about grandpa Anakin?"
"Sure, lets tell him all about Darth Vader. He tortured the shit out of me in Cloud City, it was really brutal! Then he froze me."
"Don't forget the part where he tried to blow up all of us a few times. Oh, and when he blew up my home planet! He cut off Uncle Luke's hand too."
Snoke to Ren:
"Granpa was a son of a bitch, sounds great doesn't it? He was so cool. He wore all black, and did whatever he wanted as long as Old Man Palpatine gave him the ok. They betrayed everyone, and he killed a bunch of kids. It was totally rad."
>>63953300
>so, the MF is auto-cloaked when park in the open on tatooine v2.0?
literally the first time the Millennium Falcon flies Finn says "fly low, it messes with their sensors" or something like that.
>no. it just kills the notion of an imposing antagonist dead... thereby nullifying the entire premise of the film
holy shit how did you miss the point of Ren's character by this much? I mean I agree he unmasked a bit earlier than he should have, but he literally is supposed to be some edgy faggot who wants to be like Darth Vader and has to wear a mask to be imposing
>>63958820
He was a good friend.
>>63958820
He hated sand.
Film needed 10 minutes of politics of just why the resistance, not the new republic army and new senate. Maybe First Order politics as well, how do they have resources, etc.
Wedge Antilles and Lando Memorial.
More build up for Mary Sue in everything she does. No super weapon, death star 2.0. It was a stupid idea, planet gun that drains a star, looked like shit, was shit.
More scale, since they land on a planet with a huge vista. Boom we're there. More Poe, or Poe and Finn. Everyone felt like a side character in this because it was just too much all the time, and refused to slow down. So you're just left with Han "Marvel Quip" Solo to carry the film, and he does, because he's Indiana Jones.
>>63958208
It's hard to guess numbers but I don't think there were more than a hundred Jedi in that battle.
The people in that bar could just as well have thought that Obi was some gangster rather than a Jedi.
But it's also a matter of time and place. People on Carcasonne are more likely to believe in the Jedi than people on some planet in the outer rim.
>>63950692
>literally everyone in the world, and their dog
>no brain
Reaching.... reaching... use the force...
>>63958820
don't allow yourself to be seduced by the light side, Kylo! just remember your grandfather was a fascist mass-murderer and know you've made the right life choices.
>>63958885
Starkiller is a good concept and looks great. But it was stupid to do it because they've already done two huge superweapons.
>>63958925
>The people in that bar could just as well have thought that Obi was some gangster rather than a Jedi.
They all look shocked when Obi slices off the woman's hand and then Anakin yells that it's Jedi business and to go back to their drinks, and they all do. It doesn't look like he uses any mind trick either.
>>63958931
What story could he have told about Vader that made Kylo Ren go, "Man, I want to be that guy."
"He was the emperor's patsy, his lap dog! He was so cool. Obi-Wan cut off his limbs, he was so powerful! Your dad shot his Tie Interceptor out into space. Uncle Luke almost killed him, but saw that blasted light side and then, he turned your granmpa good!"
Basically Kylo Ren is the most impressionable faggot to ever exist. You think with all the stories Han has, he'd just be a badass smuggler.
>>63958939
it's actually not possible to make a functioning machine that large because of the properties of matter. the death star was actually pretty small. it's cool in the same way that Legolas surfing on orcs was cool.
>>63959037
>it's actually not possible
stopped being a valid statement there
>>63958885
>Film needed 10 minutes of politics
But RLM told me politics are boring. This is a kid's movie. Can't talk about politics. Just bury that shit. Let's just show another forced diversity actor being clever. Thank you RLM. Thank you Disney.
>>63958939
I feel sorry for you if you think Starkiller is a good concept. It is literally the worst thing/idea in the movie. Worse than Mary Sue Rey.
>>63959026
Maybe when he first touched the mask he saw a bunch of out-of-context Vader shit that looked cool, or even just experienced a feeling of what his power was like and wanted to have that for himself. He does say something like "show me again" to the mask.
Or being a part of Luke's academy Kylo began to hate children and so when Snoke came to him and said "Your grandfather murdered a dozen kids once. He was a good friend" Kylo jumped onboard.
>>63958985
I stand corrected. But I don't think it changes much.
In that time the Jedi were a big instance, that's true. But the way I imagine it the people rather have seen them as clerics. Like intellectual Kung-Fu fighters and less like magicians.
>>63959098
What is RLM?
>>63959126
Well, Han should have busted his ass when it all comes down to it. "Your grandad was a faggot. Don't be a faggot." Uncle Luke probably should have done it too, since he can sense disturbances in the force. You'd think he'd have a bad feeling about Ren's training, or Snoke's existence, or just be able to handle his apprentice.
>Kylo Ren likes Vader
>Not Sheev
he fucked up
>>63944659
How the fuck did they miss the biggest one? Kylo kills Max Von Sydow (the only lead on Luke's location at the time) because he gave the map away. 5 seconds later Kylo takes Poe hostage because he gave the map away. Even if you don't have magic force interrogating powers it's fucking retarded to kill Max.
>>63959121
It was bad because it was a rehash but other than I don't see the problem. Visually and conceptually a weapon that feeds off of a sun for power is far more interesting. If you hate the Death Star than I completely understand this opinion. But thinking the Death Star is a good concept but the Starkiller is a bad one is weird
I didn't love it and the movie shouldn't have included it, but as a concept on paper it's good enough.
>>63952385
>>resistance
>>an underground organization composed of groups of private individuals working as an opposition force in a conquered country to overthrow the occupying power, usually by acts of sabotage, guerrilla warfare, etc
>>insurgency
>>insurrection against an existing government, usually one's own, by a group not recognized as having the status of a belligerent
They're more or less the same thing, but the First Order is closer to a resistance (against the New Republic) because they ARE recognized as an organized belligerent
Except the movie depicts the New Republic as being disarmed and castrated, with no captured Imperial hardware, resources, or systems
That's what makes it a plot hole, retard. The New Republic wouldn't have just left tons of Imperial warships and star systems unoccupied for the First Order to do what they wanted with, and localized themselves to one system where they could be easily destroyed all at once.
At least, not unless they were retarded Disney straw good guys.
>Kill the republic in a 5 minute scene
>Wipe out all the Rebellion fought for in one scene
bravo
masterful film
>>63959256
The Death Star is a superior concept to the Star Killer.
>We made a gun that blows up planets
>It got blown up by a ship
>We made a 2nd gun that blows up planets
>it got blown up by a ship
>We made a planet that blows up planets
>It got blown up by a ship
The Death Star is superior just because it is a ship, it can move, and it can blow up a Starkiller base.
They're both retarded, but at least one of them is cool. The other is just retarded. Let's not even get into the idea of taking the energy of a star and storing it inside of your planet, SOMEHOW, and converting that into a beam to shoot across the galaxy. Not to mention all of that energy coming into the atmosphere of the planet (IE Heat and Radiation) the Starkiller planet would be a barren wasteland, and the atmosphere would have caught on fire. Not to mention all of that energy has to go somewhere. There would be no 'charging', more like blowing up your own planet if any of this was even remotely logical. I'm not even talking science. Just logical.
It's about as bad as Mary Sue Rey piloting the falcon so well, in and out of a wrecked star destroyer, cutting the turn and the engine at just the right angle to line up a fighter she saw in the rear view mirror at the correct angle for nignog to blast it with that broken turret.
JJ Abrams should be ashamed.
>>63959263
>tfw the EU canon where the New Republic becomes a proper restoration of the Old Republic, with a full-fledged armada and a democratic government, will never be a reality in Disney's Star Wars
>tfw the Alliance is literally fully called "The Alliance to RESTORE THE REPUBLIC"
>tfw Disney made the New Republic a bunch of pussies just waiting to be killed so we can have it hammered into our heads that the Imperial Remna- I mean, First Order are space nazis
There's a right amount of politics for these movies to have. The prequels executed the political aspect poorly but Star Wars has always had political aspects to it. They specifically mention the Imperial Senate in the OT, and just mentioning it is good enough to give us an inkling with which to imagine what's going on politically: big giant Empire is running a farce of a senate to mask their totalitarianism, and a lot of people (the Rebellion) don't like that and are trying to abolish the Empire.
But Disney can't even do that, because muh JJ Wars, muh splosions, muh glowsticks
>>63953013
Lel, I bet you think the "Free Syrian Army" is a legitimate entity, don't you?
/tv/ confirmed for babby-tier awareness of politics and current events
>>63952374
this anon gets it
>>63959397
I remember syrian people waving FSA flags on campus when their civil war has started back in 2012(?). I'm from Russia, though.
>>63959263
Same anon here, I should add that calling it "The Resistance" is just a way of writing off the New Republic because millennial babies who were hyped for this film might hear it as "Republican" and cry
All the nuance of politics is pretty much lost, everything has to be put in simple Saturday morning cartoon terms of Blatantly Evil Guys vs Le Righteous Anti-Establishment Resistance (even though the First Order isn't the establishment by definition and is only forced into that false position by, again, retardedly boxing the New Republic into one star system and killing them all off in literally 1 min)
>>63959468
>millennial babies who were hyped for this film might hear it as "Republican" and cry
This is depressing and probably true.
I hate this generation.
>>63959357
>it's a bad concept because that's not how suns work in real life and it doesn't move
okay...
>>63959591
How could you possibly think that's true? What is wrong with you?
>>63944659
>huffpost
No! Bad Anon!
>>63959730
This movie doesn't even think its audience can understand simple politics. If it's not BAD EVIL GUY or GOOD GIRL, then it's not needed for this all-inclusive movie.
>>63959591
Millenials were born 1980 to 2000.
>>63959777
I don't understand what this has to do with millennials and republicans but okay. Star Wars has always been very black and white when it comes to morality. The bad guys align themselves with something called "the dark side", dress in black and use red laser swords. I agree that they should have hinted more at how the politics of the galaxy works in this one but you need to relax.
>>63949761
There's actually quite a few major sites pointing out the bullshit in VII. Even IGN had a video about all the problems with the movie.
The issue is that star wars fags are absolute cancer/Disney shills and any negative opinions are getting completely blasted.
People seem to forget that even the prequels were really liked when they came out.
>>63953300
>so, the MF is auto-cloaked when park in the open on tatooine v2.0?
You know how it's easy to find a plane in mid flight but extremely difficult to do that if it's parked somewhere unknown on earth? Same principle, dumbass.
>>63959777
Since its audience are kids, yeah it's accurate.
>>63959858
>negative opinions are completely blasted
but they are the majority here (hyperbolicly so) and, as you said, are prevalent elsewhere. what are you talking about? If your reference is here, then all opinions are "blasted", as is the case with most topics.
>>63959854
but the average Imperial doesn't know shit about the Force or the Sith
the average Imperial is just some guy who wanted a job
>inb4 le Clerks meme
nononono. not what I mean at all.
a lot of them are probably holdovers from the Old Republic, or maybe people who just don't understand what the Empire actually does. Reminder that Luke himself wanted to join the Imperial Academy before the events of ANH, and Han's stint in the Imperial Academy was how he met Chewie in the first place.
the Empire is shown to put out a lot of propaganda to cloak the Emperor's actual agenda, and not everyone likes or respects the Rebel Alliance, not even people who might stand to benefit from supporting it.
I'm not saying this is really stressed too heavily in the films, but if you have a brain and don't think in such simplistic terms you can easily come to these conclusions, and it's expanded upon in the EU, which is part of why TFA is mediocre: Disney trashes all that in favor of "just mention the New Republic in passing, trash it and call what's left Le Resistance" like it's the fucking French revolution or X-Men or something.
>>63944659
God, this is retarded. I think 7 sucks compared to the prequels so far and is just a nostalgia cash grab.
But most of this is just bullshit. Like
>27. How did Kylo Ren manage to get Darth Vader's mask into his little fetish den? This is only the most significant piece of memorabilia in the entire Galaxy. Not a plot hole per se, but still odd. And yet a similar question could be asked of Rey: how did she get that X-wing pilot helmet, and why doesn't she sell it for food? And why does Teedo (a fellow scavenger on Jakku) just give Rey BB-8 after capturing the droid, given that as an experienced trader Teedo would already know that (as Rey quickly discovers) BB-8 is worth 100 times more than any random pile of junk either he or Rey could ever offer Plutt? Now that is a plot hole.
This this guy completely miss the scene where he ordered his guys to chase her and bring him the robot or is he just very very dumb?
>>63959448
>what are agitators and propagandists
why do you think the Western media loves spouting the FSA meme? to distract from the fact that our governments gave money and weapons to literal terrorists.
even IF the FSA are a real thing, they are still just one of many insurgent groups fighting for control of Syria and killing anybody who gets in their way. there are literally no good guys in that situation, but the media and governments sold us that meme to justify destabilizing Assad for their own purposes.
and now they want us to take the burden of their mistake in the form of migrants, when they, the ruling elite, are the fuckers who really caused this situation.
>>63959679
>superweapon that doesn't move is somehow equal to superweapon that does move
yeah okay bud
if the Empire had actually completed the second Death Star the Rebellion would've decisively lost the war. But there's a reason the Imperial Remnant moved on to other, more nuanced types of superweapons and strategies after the Galactic Civil War
But fuck that, this is a Disney movie, so Not The Death Star it is, complete with shield generator and trench run
>>63960431
Teedo was the one that had BB-8 in a net.
>>63959760
>judging based on who said it and not what's actually being said
if Hitler said the sky was blue he wouldn't be wrong just because he's Hitler
kill yourself
>>63960486
You're having a different argument to me. You seem to be talking about its logic in-universe, and also the production's decision to include it in the movie. I already said in my first post it was stupid for them to do another superweapon. But as a concept, separated from the context/history of the franchise, it's not bad.
>>63952965
>Han Solo specifically states he was looking for the MF, and that if he could find it the First Order could too.
But conveniently never finds it until MaRey Sue steals it
>>Luke exiles himself like both YODA AND OBI WAN do. Do we blame them for the millions killed? He's the last fucking Jedi for christs sake.
No, but the difference is that Yoda and Obi-Wan's side lost the Clone Wars, while Han and Luke's side won the Galactic Civil War. He has no reason to just disappear and let the Imperial Remnant build back up again when they could keep building the New Republic and not let it be destroyed
>>General Hux gathers everyone because it's the very thing they're all indoctrinated to do, destroy the resistance. Why wouldn't they all be there?
Name a competent tactician who has ever put all of his forces in one place all at the same time.You can't. The Empire never did it, people who are supposed to be emulating the Empire shouldn't and realistically wouldn't either.
>>They send two of his closest friends and his daughter to find Luke. What? Were they gonna send the rest of the resistance all at once?
We don't know that Rey is Luke's daughter, that's just speculation. And it's not like Leia would want to see her brother after decades or anything.
>>Kylo taking his helmet off isn't a plot hole.
It IS a testament to how rushed and forced this shitty movie is, though. How is it dramatic to reveal the villain's face in the first part of a three-part story?
>>Half of these are nitpicks
And you don't address the other half that are completely valid. You even took a some valid ones and tried to address them as though they were nitpicks, because you're probably too young to have seen the pre-remaster OT and thus have a shit tier baby opinion
>>63960705
It had been sat on the ground for years. He knew whereabouts it was, and immediately picked it up the first time it was flying.
>>63958089
He still had the New Republic on his side, but in Disneyworld Presents Star Wars On Ice the New Republic give up all the ground they've gained and go "oh, well, we won, the galaxy is at peace now :^)" and just pretend like there are no leftovers of the Empire waiting to push their shit in
They literally used the New Republic as a helpless puppy for the villain to kick, instead of treating it as the legitimate governmental and military force it should be after winning a fucking war.
>>63958127
>Sounds like he was reasonably confident he had a chance against Palpatine to me
Until he realized he couldn't, dipshit.
>>63960782
If he knew where it was, why did he say he was "looking for it?"
God, it's like you actually have a learning disability
>>63960835
Are you autistic? You can know where something is and not know its precise location.
>>63960563
As a concept it is worse. It would have been better if it was a death star that sucked the life of stars to charge its gun, rather than a planet.
The fact that it's a planet is the stupid part, concept wise, when in universe, there are ships that can blow up planets. You don't think in a real universe, the Republic would not have built super weapons of their own after witnessing the power of the death star? Well, not Disney republic that is.
>>63960486
Nothing wrong a superweapon, but the EU is literally full of superweapons they could've used and is generally a better canon than the one Disney is spinning
Disney's canon literally has an empty gap between the Battle of Jakku and Episode VII, which could've served as great backstory for a "Jacen Solo turns evil, Jaina has to kill him" trilogy.
But nooo, let's just erase all that, but then take the same basic events of where we're at in the timeline, dumb them down to make it fit the rubric of A New New Hope and call it a movie
If Star Wars wasn't totally bastardized after the prequels, it is now
>>63960912
>It would have been better if it was a death star that sucked the life of stars to charge its gun, rather than a planet.
what the fuck is even the difference. the lines you're drawing between what makes a design good and what makes it bad are so arbitrary
>>63960899
The Falcon is literally depicted in all other Star Wars media as being Han's prized possession, his baby.
Why would he just ditch it somewhere when he has a huge freighter he could just carry it around on? The entire idea of it is stupid.
It's only structured the way it is so we have an excuse to see MaRey Sue fly it better than Han ever did to show how wimmin stronk she is. Doesn't need to make a lick of sense, because wimmin stronk is the priority, not consistency or respect to the lore
>>63960493
How you know or remember his name after 5 minutes? What kind of turbo autist do you have to be?
>>63960991
But that anon is right about the Republic, it's what I've been saying for half the thread. There is NO reason why the New Republic would just lay down its arms and pretend like there's nothing left of the Empire to come after them. It's fucking dumb.
>>63960991
>What is the difference between a moving target
>or a sitting duck that can get shot by planet-blow-up-gun or fight one x-wing 2 smugglers and 2 tagalongs and die
gee
>>63961006
it was stolen from him
>>63960431
>This this guy completely miss the scene where he ordered his guys to chase her and bring him the robot or is he just very very dumb?
He mentions that and points out how the guy first offers her more money for BB-8 than he'd normally ever offer, then immediately switches to sending his goons after her
Why would he offer her money if he's willing to take the droid by force?
>>63961019
I didn't remember it, I read it in the sentence posted and used the fucking context to realise it could only be referring to one character.
>>63961051
I forgot the death star could do evasive maneuvers, my b
>>63961081
so you honestly buy the idea of Han "losing" the MF or letting someone steal it from him? Lol
Disneyfags everyone
>>63961051
>Go fight the planet
>Just don't come in on the gun side
>Never mind it has to charge up, blow it up
It's literally the most awful shit ever. The majority of their force was there and they got taken out by Han, Chewie and a squad of X-Wings. Not even Y-Wing Bombers, Capital ships or anything. Just a squad of X-Wings. It was like a Rogue Squadron mission.
In ANH it was a last ditch effort. In TFA they could have sent anything at their disposal, and they send one group of X-Wings and the Falcon. Are you shitting me?
Better yet, there was no Star Destroyer protection for this all mighty shitty super weapon. No Armada on stand by to protect this planet weapon. Nope, fly right in, no one cares.
It was laughably bad.
>>63961113
Yeah he lost it.
The events are covered in
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Smuggler's_Run:_A_Han_Solo_%26_Chewbacca_Adventure
A children's novel, but canon.
>>63961109
It can obviously go from Point A to Point B, so by the time planet gun charges it can move. It can also come in not facing the gun on Star Killer and shoot it in the back, and blow it the fuck up. It is superior in every way except it shoots one beam instead of five and it doesn't have to drain a sun to do it.
>>63961169
so big media conglomerates can just buy up an IP and declare decades of established canon null and void and you'll just accept that like a good goy and keep forking your money over?
I don't give a fuck about some book that came out to justify the shitty writing decisions they made for their shitty reboot movie
>Spies had to give their lives to expose the Death Star's stupid weakness. It was still hard to exploit and took a miracle.
>Nignog janitor defects from his entire life because "it's the right thing to do" AKA I don't want to work for a living, and tells them how to blow up a whole planet because he took out the garbage there
wow. Masterful film. It's like the troopers there just talked about, "How could this place get blown up? Do you want to know Nignog? Take out my garbage and I'll tell you."
>>63961260
>muh EU :'(
>>63961320
>muh Disney Jews telling me what is and isn't canon the moment they're finally able to take ownership of an IP i've enjoyed since childhood
>>63961347
I don't understand why this makes you so mad. They own the rights, they wanted to make sequels and the EU is loaded with stories from after the original trilogy that would conflict with their movies. They haven't held a book burning or anything. All of the EU material still exists.
>>63961432
It exists, but it "doesn't count" despite being infinitely more detailed and interesting than anything Disney is going to do with it.
They're already done more media explicitly for children than they have anything having to do with that existing content. Again, TFA is just a dumbing down of Jacen Solo's dark side story, reformatted to fit into ANH's framework so that they can make it as safe and marketable as possible.
We get none of the backstory of what made Jacen Solo interesting, and instead get a basic as fuck rehash of movies we've already seen. Maybe VIII and IX will prove me wrong, but I wanted to be wrong about VII and it turned out to be exactly what I expected.
The moment I saw Not Tatooine in the trailers I knew this movie was going to be a bullshit lazy rehash and I was right.
I know this is autistic as fuck but I don't care. I wanted them to actually do something interesting with new Star Wars movies and it's just another Disney movie with no nuance or risk-taking. They're coming at it from the Disney perspective of "make the most marketable, easiest thing possible" and they're too stupid to realize that they could literally take any risk they wanted and people would still see this movie.
For all the hate the prequels still get, people forget that they still made hundreds of millions of dollars and broke box office records for the time. They literally weren't a financial risk at all, because they were fucking Star Wars movies.
>>63961600
So in short, they are basically missing an opportunity to make new, genuinely fresh movies using perfectly good source material, in favor of throwing that source material away and making what amounts to a high budget casual fan film.
>>63961643
>>63961600
Yeah, I'm disappointed that we're never going to see Luuke or Luuuke Skywalker too.
>>63961695
>cherry picking something they wouldn't have been able to actually do because it happens 5 years after RotJ and Hamill has been too old for 20 years
>clones somehow being ridiculous when the Clone Wars happened
>Luuuke wasn't even canon pre-Disney
Fuck off.
A proper Darth Caedus vs Jaina Solo story with the various Imperial splinter groups would be way more interesting than "le First Order vs Resistance XDDD"
The actors are the right age for it and it would be fresher and more nuanced than "XDD remember the Death Star? remember this, remember that?"
![EP5_ILM_86[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/uKbk4rN.jpg "EP5 ILM 86[1]")
