>Phantom Menace
>Add considerable amounts of world building and new lore
>Actually provides new insights into already known elements of the Star Wars universe and fleshes out what we've been speculating on for years
>TFA
>"Lol, remember this!"
>"Lol, remember when this character said that in the old movies? xD"
What exactly did TFA add to the Star Wars franchise and lore as a whole that was actually needed? Can you name a single one?
>The Shitpost is strong in my family
>My father shitposts
>I shitpost
>My sister shitposts
>You can shitpost too
>>63873535
>take the bait, luke. Only your hate can destroy a shitposter
Had the prequel trilogy been shot on film, they would be rated as highly as the original trilogy. And had Lucas hired someone to make his dialogue passable, they would have been elevated above the original films.
A SHIT POST?
>Phantom Menace
>There's no scary ghosts spooking Obiwan and Quigon
Lore is for book readin' nerds. I dont want to watch some shit faces pod race for an hour
>>63873622
>And had Lucas hired someone to make his dialogue passable, they would have been elevated above the original films.
Also if he hired someone to direct and write the script.
>>63873622
This. No one would tell Lucas no.
>>63873428
>>Phantom Menace
>>Add considerable amounts of world building and new lore
who cares
>>Actually provides new insights into already known elements of the Star Wars universe and fleshes out what we've been speculating on for years
fleshes out in the most horrible way possible. Vader, the collected villain, didn't get tempted by the dark side but was a psychopath all along and started killing children for a dream? Oooooookay....
>midichlorians
>trade federations
>jar jar
>Anakin built C3PO
>chosen one bullshit
strong world building there, OP
you guys have taken memes way too far
>>63873767
But that didn't happen in The Phantom Menace, you dong.
>>63873428
>What did TFA add to the lore?
It was a character-driven story, so instead of focusing on the world, it decided for focus on the characters. We know what happened to Luke, Han, and Leia. We know that when Luke ran off, shit started reverting back to Ep. IV status.
I'm happier with that than "the force is a chemical in your body" and "these racist caricature frog people live underwater on a palace planet."
This movie was about setting up a new story. The next 2 are being written by a single guy, so they will most likely build the universe a bit more.
However, overall, the thing to take away from this is that the original trilogy was a character-driven sci-fi adventure. There was NOT a lot of lore in those original movies. The prequels had a lot of lore and politics and shitty characters and people hated them because they were boring and there was nothing to invest in.
So stop acting like this movie didn't "contribute" to shit, because if you want to come at it like that, Empire Strikes Back didn't contribute to the lore at all EITHER. And if I'm not mistaken, nearly everyone feels that was the BEST MOVIE.
>defending the prequels
dropped
>>63873770
Am I the only one who loved the Chosen One stuff (the idea, not the execution)?
Can someone tell me if people defending the prequels are being serious now because they're just so fucking autistic and fedora that they'd go to that much trouble to be contrarian? Or is it just trolling? These people need a hobby.
>>63873428
>PM
All point and laugh
>>63874069
Yes. There's was no need for that shit. Anakin should have been a powerful Jedi tempted by the dark side, not a fallen messiah who redeems himself because fate demanded it.
If your argument is solely to say that Phantom Menace did more new stuff rather than rely on nostalgia and fan service, then sure, not a lot of people will disagree with you.
If your argument is to say that this means Phantom Menace is a better movie or that the fan service automatically means TFA is bad, then you're wrong.
>>63873767
>Vader, the collected villain, didn't get tempted by the dark side but was a psychopath all along and started killing children for a dream?
Anakin is noticeably conflicted when he has to kill the younglings though. It's like he enjoys what he's doing, he just puts his own selfish desires above the greater good while convincing himself what he's doing is for the greater good.
>>63874109
it's the result of the prequels having effective individual ideas and scenes.
they're not really defending the prequels in their totality, they're defending their concepts and relatively originality.
>>63873428
movies aren't about Lore you /v/irginal faggot. people like you made the prequels terrible
>>63873920
>We know that when Luke ran off, shit started reverting back to Ep. IV status.
>I'm happier with that than "the force is a chemical in your body" and "these racist caricature frog people live underwater on a palace planet."
Yeah, because when I was a kid I always wanted to see Luke as a coward and a loser. Thanks, JJ.
>>63874171
According to TFA, Anakin did nothing wrong. The Empire was truly needed to maintain order and the rebels weren't good enough to rule
>>63873920
>blah blah blah muh midichlorians
>RAYYSCISM!
>no substance is better than substance that offends me
![the-night-of-the-hunter[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/EXhsY9n.jpg "the-night-of-the-hunter[1].jpg")
>>63874170
>If your argument is to say that this means Phantom Menace is a better movie or that the fan service automatically means TFA is bad, then you're wrong.
this is a matter of opinion, though.
you're basically saying you think that the quality of a movie has nothing to do with trying to give them something they haven't seen before.
so, by this logic a solid Bond film is better than Night Of The Hunter, because NotH has a lot of dodgy acting and awkward storytelling.
>>63874184
This is my stance. I like the prequels. I recognize that they aren't good movies on the whole. But I like the story, the casting, and a lot of the ideas Lucas was going for. And CGI or no there's some really beautiful imagery in the movie, to say nothing of the exceptional sound design. Are they better than the originals? Hell no, they aren't even as good. But the core ideas are still very much Star Wars to me and in my opinion only serve to reinforce the ideas presented in the OT. The execution was just incredibly clumsy since George handled the story AND the script AND directing actors, the latter two of which he himself will admit that he's no good at. He just needed a filter and those movies would have rivaled the OT.
I'm not shitposting about TFA like some though. I haven't seen it yet.
>its a "the prequels weren't god-awful" maymay thread
The prequels didn't add anything of value that hadn't already been gleaned from the OT. They also diluted the OT by adding a ton of irrelevant and reductive shit.
>>63874264
>you're basically saying you think that the quality of a movie has nothing to do with trying to give them something they haven't seen before.
If a movie is going to do something new, it may get cut some slack for the novelty, but ultimately what matters is the core quality.
Most things here are a matter of opinion, but thats not a practical way to deal with an argument else there would be no need for discussion boards.
haven't seen TFA yet but are there any similarities/callbacks or references to the prequels? they weren't complete shit, some of the character and set design was pretty neat.
>>63874285
you summed up my feelings about the prequels pretty well anon. Though I'd at least give the films an "okay" rating in terms of execution. I probably enjoy them more because I'm a star wars fan in general as in, reading the comics, books, playing video games which in some ways makes watching the prequels better for me because a lot of the "holes" are often explained in supplementary material. Not to say that a movie should always be content with that or that mainstream audiences respond well to having read a bunch of comics first to understand a movie. But they are what they are.
Fuck this pussy whipped First Order!
The CIS shall rise again!
Our droids are better than before!
We don't clone humans like cattle!
All Contrarians to the battlestations!
I repeat: All Contrarians to the battlestations!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXzIelt75e0
>>63874374
>haven't seen TFA yet
Then I would advise you to stay away from threads like this. You will get spoilers.
Go watch it first, its worth it
>>63874416
>you'll never fight alongside your droid comrades against the oppression of the Republic
>>63874285
>the story, the casting, and a lot of the ideas Lucas was going for
Its possible to like/respect all of that (except the casting, what the fuck is wrong with you) and recognize the prequels were clearly the result of an "idea guy" who was in desperate need of being surrounded by talented people who were capable of molding all of his broad ideas into something worthwhile AND capable of vetoing the ideas that were shit. But lucas, being the immature and resentful person he is, specifically waited so long to make more starwars so everyone with any superiority or clout than him would be dead and gone, leaving nothing but mindless sycophants who would never question him and he could fire if they did.
>PEOPLE LITERALLY DON'T THINK DISNEY WON'T REBOOT THE PREQUELS AFTER THIS NEW TRILOGY IS OVER
i wouldnt be surprised if there isn't one single reference at all in this new films to the PT. they're gonna redo it and make the new ones canon
>>63874374
No. The one inarguable reference to the prequels is a banner buried in one shot that was anakin's podracing banner. But its basically impossible to spot without freeze-frame or autism.
>>63874627
>Disney making less Sheevy prequels
how bout no?
>>63874627
Who thinks that? Its clear they're going to redo everything except the OT, and everyone is fine with that.
Holy shit this board is so fucking pathetic.
>>63874688
except the prequels and clone wars are canon
>>63874069
>>63874164
No, I don't mind it either. Luke was already incredibly special, why wouldn't his father be? Besides his fulfilling the prophecy was incidental. The only one who actually gave a shit about it was Qui-Gon. Obi-Wan says some stuff about it in ROTS when he's heated but that's probably just because he knows firsthand how Qui-Gon believed in him. The rest of the Jedi are pretty cagey about the whole thing.
This is so retarded OP. Phantom Menace had way more shitty
"remember this" moments. It made Darth Vader the creator of C3PO, for fucks sakes. There is nothing in TFA that is as ridiculously fan-fiction as that.
>>63874737
fornow
>>63874737
Nope.
If anything, TFA took away from its predecessors.
Why was the rebel fleet and ground assault necessary in ROTJ if the entire squadron could've just hyperspaced through the shields? This shaves off like a good quarter of VI's runtime.
>>63874787
it's a space opera
>>63874632
lol! is that abrams way of saying the podracing was the only good part about the prequels?
that's kind of dissapointing for me. I wouldn't mind seeing a gungan or dug or something but I guess they're relying less on cgi now.
>>63874751
To be fair, Quin-Gon was a shitty Jedi. He found the way to trick death but he was shit on everything else
>>63874829
The scene explained that only worked because the shields were planetary, thus a larger space between the shield and the surface, the type of shields being used, and the fact han solo is crazy.
>>63874069
it was that teaser that told me to avoid PM when it came out. I caved when it later arrived on DVD.
>keep hoping for weeks that TFA sucks
>it doesn't
>new strategy
>lets pretend good is bad and bad is good and claim the prequels were anything but absolute dogshit
Almost cute you hipster fucks.
>>63874627
There is no way Lucas would allow that. Also, once you start remaking why stop at the prequels? Why not remake episode 4 too... oh wait they already did that.
>>63874431
You can't spoil a good movie.
>>63875093
Lucas has zero creative control over star wars. Disney will never even hire him to consult.
>>63873625
kek'd
>>63875093
first of all lucas can't do fucking shit because he doesnt own anything anymore.
second, its because its clear to see that the OT is the framework they are building the ST from. no midichlorians, no superacrobatic extended lightsaber fighting, no overemphasis on CGI, no shitty comic relief characters like jar jar unless it has that patented disney charm we have seen in the MCU, the prequels have good concepts and characters but just need better execution and a plot, etc
also there isnt really any indication that anything in the PT will be referenced at all
you really think disney is content with just finishing up the 3 movies in the ST, rogue one, and maybe a standalone han solo/obi wan movie and thats it? they're in it for the long haul and the reboot of episode 1 probably won't happen for another decade but its going to happen
>>63875093
fucking ford, hamill, chewie, and leia are all from the OT and in TFA too you idiot
why would they remake the OT
I hope they do remake the prequels.
>>63873622
Maybe Disney will remake the prequels someday
>model airplanes
>>63873622
>had the prequels been good people would like them
no way
>>63874164
We all know the chosen one stuff is pure guff, but what if Qui-gon was wrong? What if it wasnt Anakin?
>>63874164
>>63875403
George actually sort of left this a little open, especially in Episode 3 where Mace seems to doubt the prophecy and you have Sheev's speech about Plagueis.
Did Anakin redeem himself because fate said so, or was he not the chosen one afterall, or was the prophecy just wrong from the get go? Even in the Clone Wars cartoons which were supervised by Lucas, George doesn't quite answer the question.
George is probably smarter than most people give him credit for.
>>63874627
how will they handle sheev?
>>63874109
Prequels had some great moments.
>Sheev influences people by convincing he is right, not by sword fights
>Sheev destroys The Republic from within
>Anakin turning into dark side because he can't contemplate losing the ones he love
>Obi Wan in general
HATE SAND
>>63873622
Why were the prequels so ugly? There isn't a single decent shot in the entire trilogy.
>>63875649
massive amounts of cgi that makes everything look way too clean and sterile.
>>63873428
>I love the prequels now after watching The Force Awakens!
The prequels were bad but people think Star Wars is some kind of artsy masterpiece. The originals are cheesy as fuck.
>>63875705
Empire was goat but only because Kershner's autism.
>>63875705
well they are scifi movies from 30+ years ago
what do you expect
This bait is worth... a quarter-portion.
>>63875566
anakin's entire fall was extremely dumb, mostly because he never displayed anything but the emotions of a small child. Because that's about lucas' operative level. Obi-wan wasn't much more than "there."
I agree with the rest.
>>63873428
Tfa only does that a little bit though here and there
>>63873428
They were both bad.
>>63875705
I know that. That's probably why I can appreciate certain elements of the prequels better than others.
>>63875694
>clean and sterile
and muddled due to the low resolution that was used to get the films out as quickly as they did. They might have fixed that in the DVD/bluray releases, but I haven't watched them since the theatrical release.
>>63873920
>TFA is a character driven movie
>All character development takes place off screen or a character does a flip between scenes
>Finn is a stormtrooper that is conflict from the start. Instead of showing how he was pro Empire to emphasize their conditioning and then slowly understanding the evil afoot like a well written movie would do, his opening seem literally shows him as a stormtrooper that doesn't wanna be a stormtrooper. Thus negating the entire purpose of backstory other than to throw a bone to an author to write some shitty book about it.
>Rey is Luke 2.0 minus the reluctant agreement to start the hero's journey. She literally starts her journey because she will die if she doesn't flee. Then she tags along because why not until she finds a lightsaber that causes her character to do a 180 and gives her a purpose to join the resistance.
>Kylo appears to have character development to make a SHOCKING REVEAL more shocking. Turns out it was just a misdirection.
If you're gonna use the character driven movie excuse then at least have interesting characters going through development on screen.
People can bend their souls as much as they like but deep down they know the prequels were better than TFA.
>>63874109
Is there a jedi that can beat Saitama?
>let's introduce a bunch of new planets where the Republic is now seated
>Proceeds to destroy said planets almost as soon as they are even mentioned
IT'S JUST SO DENSE.
>>63875894
Finn was a child soldier. There is really no reason to think he was ever "pro-empire." Just "pro-eating" and "pro-not-dying."
>>63875911
Soon the veils created by the darkside will lift themselves
>>63875911
I was over 18 when they were released.
>>63875788
>Anakin was childish
Kind of entirely the point. He started a training regimen designed to give him extremely heightened emotional maturity and control after an age where it was going to be effective. Instead of Anakin taking the teachings entirely to heart it led to him repressing his emotions which led to violent outbursts which led to self-loathing for being a shitty jedi. In fact, this can all be applied to Kylo Ren to a T so they must have liked some aspects about the prequels.
>Obi- Wan wasn't more than there.
Come on now anon.
>>63875971
also "pro-not-getting-whipped" for disobedience
>>63875894
>>Rey is Luke 2.0 minus the reluctant agreement to start the hero's journey. She literally starts her journey because she will die if she doesn't flee.
Doesn't she constantly try to go back to Jakku? Like multiple times in the movie
And she didn't even want to take the lightsaber either
>>63876025
>heightened emotional maturity
By that you mean no emotions.
>>63874627
Why would they go through the trouble of remaking something critically panned when they could just make more sequels?
It's much more financially risky to remake the prequels
More likely is that they will create a full on Star Wars "cinematic universe", where there's a "main" Star Wars episode trilogy every decade, and the rest of the years in that decade are padded out with other Star Wars cinematic universe films.
They're making a Han Solo side story film, and ROGUE ONE is about the rebels getting the plans to the Death Star. I can imagine that future Star Wars cinematic universe films might deal with really, really old stuff that happened hundreds or even thousands of years ago
>>63875894
>Rey is Luke 2.0 minus the reluctant agreement to start the hero's journey. She literally starts her journey because she will die if she doesn't flee. Then she tags along because why not until she finds a lightsaber that causes her character to do a 180 and gives her a purpose to join the resistance.
There is so much wrong with this
>Rey is Luke 2.0 minus the reluctant agreement to start the hero's journey.
She was reluctant the entire time. "I need to get back to Jakku" was basically her catch phrase. Eventually she realized there was no way she could go back.
>She literally starts her journey because she will die if she doesn't flee.
That's not a bad start to a journey. Even then she still wanted to go back.
>Then she tags along because why not
She tags along for the hope of getting back to Jakku in piece so she can wait for the people that left her there to come back.
>until she finds a lightsaber that causes her character to do a 180 and gives her a purpose to join the resistance.
When she first found the lightsaber she was desperate to not touch it again and still wanted to go back to Jakku. How is that a 180?
>>63874206
Imagine being a teacher and caring about all your young padwans. You teach them, they live with you, you protect them, they are very important to you.
Then your sister sends her autistic son to come be a Jedi, and once he becomes older he kills all the others in front of you and runs away.
Tell me you wouldn't feel responsible and not fucked up mentally after seeing your nephew massacre his friends and your students that you've known for at least a decade each.
>Prequels
>Adds rule of two and muh force bacteria
>Resounding backlash
>Sequels
>You no longer need training to use a light saber
>You can now learn force abilities without even studying and practicing them
>You can pick up a lightsaber for the first time in your life and rek a seasoned Sith apprentice who was trained by Luke Skywalker himself
>Storm Troopers are now slaves :3
>All TFA cucks defend this shit and say "get over it!!!"
>>63876079
Yeah because Obi-Wan doesn't ever display any emotion right?
>>63873920
>This movie was about setting up a new story.
Which it completely failed to do thanks to no world building.
>>63876220
If he did, I don't remember it. But I haven't watched the two prequels I've see in 16/14 years.
>>63874473
Have faith unit 423045, our time will come
>>63876287
ANH didn't build much world either. But people forget that.
>>63876194
This, how TFA treats the force is basically "midichlorians" 2.0.
It's just magic, nothing else. Everything else, control of your emotions (see: Kylo Ren), the training, the philosophical stuff, they'll try to do all this in the next movie with Luke but they've already made it irrelevant.
The Force ist just magic, and if you "have" it, you can do whatever you want just because you want to.
>>63876194
>You no longer need training to use a light saber
Technically you don't need training to use a weapon at all. Rey only won because Kylo was wounded and emotional. As well as he also realized that her potential was better than his ever was. That was the point of him offering to train her and end the fight there. He knew she'll surpass him.
>You can now learn force abilities without even studying and practicing them
She was copying Kylo when he was using his force suggestion technique on her.
>You can pick up a lightsaber for the first time in your life and rek a seasoned Sith apprentice who was trained by Luke Skywalker himself
You can also beat a wounded, tired, emotional sith apprentice that never finished his training with Luke and hadn't finished his training with Snook or snork.
>Storm Troopers are now slaves :3
>I didn't pay attention to anything Finn said because he's a nigger.
>>63876309
That sounds like a personal problem, not a problem with the movie.
>>63876339
except for the fact that it introduced the galaxy
>>63876348
>She was copying Kylo when he was using his force suggestion technique on her.
that's still fucking bullshit mane
>>63876194
this. I agree ugh TFA is so obnoxious
>>63876421
It is bullshit, but it was clear that she picked up on what Kylo was doing and tried to do it herself.
>>63876375
I'd argue that only watching the prequels once and only when they came out is a virtue.
>>63876348
>Kylo was in beast mode and seething with dark power. He was literally punching his gaping open wounds to make himself suffer more and give himself dark side buffs
>Force suggestion technique and thinking you can completely control someone's mind is so stupid. Not only this, but you are supposed to be trained in ANY ability to be able to do this shit. Isn't even EU tier-shit, either
>See first point. He was a seasoned Sith apprentice with decades of saber fighting under his belt. It'd be like going up against a pro MMA fighter when the only martial arts training you have being high school boxing, and not getting rekt
>Finn literally said he doesn't have a name and never had one, he just had a designation. His name is literally just his designation of F-N. Poe says "we'll call you Finn then", and he starts cheering at the fact he now has an actual name. He was a slave.
>>63876506
Well I'm sure you would seeing as you only viewed 2/3 of them a single time over a decade ago.
They are far from good movies but most people don't even actually know what's bad about them either. Hell, just look at the response to the Plinkett reviews. Lots of good criticism in there as to why the characters fall flat and the style of the movie doesn't match up with the style of the OT (specifically ANH) and what do people do? They ignore all that shit that Plinkett himself says are the real flaws in favor of the silly jokes and over-the-top nitpicking, presumably because they just want to repeat memes to fit in the circlejerk rather than rub two braincells and attempt any actual analysis of the movies.
>phantom menace
>phantomas is only on the screen few times when he is talking with people as a hologram
Worse than Mad Max Fury road.
>>63876531
>Kylo was in beast mode and seething with dark power. He was literally punching his gaping open wounds to make himself suffer more and give himself dark side buffs
No he wasn't, he wasn't getting shit from the buffs because he still clearly has light in him. He was trying to get the dark side buffs but failed. He won against Finn but by the time he fought Rey he was tired and bleeding out against someone that was at their best and wanted to kill the fuck out of him. Did you forget that he was struggling to keep standing?
>>Force suggestion technique and thinking you can completely control someone's mind is so stupid. Not only this, but you are supposed to be trained in ANY ability to be able to do this shit. Isn't even EU tier-shit, either
I'll give you this because it was kind of bullshit that she was able to do it from experiencing Kylo ren using it on her. What kind of shit was that.
>See first point. He was a seasoned Sith apprentice with decades of saber fighting under his belt. It'd be like going up against a pro MMA fighter when the only martial arts training you have being high school boxing, and not getting rekt
You talk as if Rey had zero experience fighting people when we witness her wrecking sand niggers on Jakku on the regular. It's more like if the trained MMA fighter fought 2 matches before hand while having a fucking bullet wound in his torso against a rookie that just entered the ring.
>Finn's name
Did you zone him out when he said that Troopers are taken from birth and brainwashed? They are slaves, but they're likely not all black either. So stop the "hurp derp slavery white guilt cuck" shit.
>The name is Rey....Rey Kenobi
>James Bond theme start playing
>>63874787
The whole premise of TFA is ridiculous. Anakin was the chosen one who would bring balance to the force. But now he's dead, so what the fuck is the point of another movie?
>>63875037
>Box office success = doesn't suck
I guess everything marvel does is amazing? GTFO
>>63877464
I'd say it's a big galaxy with a lot of stories to tell, but after seeing this movie I realize that the galaxy is small as fuck cause everybody keeps bumping into each other like billiard balls.
>>63876194
Luke will probably reveal in the next episode that he was projecting his abilities through Rey so that she would survive.
>>63874206
>Man, Obi-Wan was so cool in 1-3. Why'd he turn into a cowardly shit who dies like a bitch in 4??
>>63873920
>It was a character-driven story, so instead of focusing on the world, it decided for focus on the characters.
Why then they are so bad? A raised-from-birth cog in the war machine becoming a stereotypical comedy nigger (funny that you've mentioned racist caricatures) after 5 minutes. A bland Mary Sue. A pilot with no characterization beyond skillz. A villain who seeks to achieve maximum edge because fuck you. Leia suddenly incapable of anything but nagging Han. Han reverting to his Ep.IV personality, except with less will. Luke deciding to become a hobo because he failed at something.
>>63877649
I've mentioned this before in a thread here but I'll say it again: it should be called 'Keeping up with the Skywalkers'
>Star Wars
>a galaxy far far away
>galaxy
Why the fuck are the Skywalkers so important in this galaxy?
>>63873920
The only character with any development was Kylo.
Finn did a 180 and became a hypocrite not even 20 minutes into the film.
Han was literally the same Han we always knew until the end where he shows his fatherly side then gets killed.
Rey was an unrepentant mary sue.
>>63877858
>Why the fuck are the Skywalkers so important in this galaxy?
Because the story is about them?
You seem to be confusing make believe with reality, are you feeling okay anon? Is your autism flaring up again?
>>63877799
Obi-Wan didn't have the Rebel Army at his disposal when the Purge happened.
>>63875788
That was the point. Anakin was an insecure momma's boy who couldn't handle his emotions. His childhood in slavery made him bitter and resented toward democracy. That's why he found Palpatine so appealing. He was like a father figure to him. He admired him.
>>63876339
It told us about the jedi, imperium and thats luke father was a jedi who was killed by vader.
The force is a power to controll stuff (aka telekinese and mind over matter)
Imperium took over.
Rebellion wants to destroy the imperium.
Its quite easy, since it was the first movie, but its more than tfa with "everything as the first one, plus new main characters".
>>63876345
I think this is why lucas tried to make the force science.
He didnt wanted it to be become lord of the rings in the space.
>>63877980
TFA told us about how the Jedi are still extinct, how the Empire fell, and that Luke fucked off to the middle of nowhere.
The Force has been divorced from midichlorians.
First Order took over.
Resistance wants to destroy the First Order.
Its quite easy, since it is the first movie, it's the same as ANH.
>>63878104
yes, the whole star wars world is known and tfa add nothing, just recycles.
>>63877944
And Palpatine preyed on this by feeding Anakin's ego and simultaneously planting seeds of doubt regarding the Jedi.
>>63877899
>Finn became a hypocrite
Oh, you mean because of the line "It's the right thing to do." The line that was IMMEDIATELY followed up with the truth that he just needed a pilot. The entire movie he was trying to run and finally came back because he wanted to protect Rey from the First Order which was on the damn planet. Might as well complain about Han Solo's off-screen change of heart in A New Hope because he had zero reason to stay and was guilt tripped by Luke into coming back to help.
>Han was the same Han we always knew
The reason was different, though. He was also running away from his past because he fucked up. Same as Luke.
>Rey was a mary sue.
Oh, okay, so if you live in a desert your whole life, you should be inept at communicating, defending yourself, and having a job (which happens to be scavenging parts and building tech from machinery left by war. Then, when you spend your life hearing myths about a mystical force you suddenly discover you HAVE, you shouldn't be able to do the stuff you heard you could do.
Nobody taught Luke the Jedi Mind Trick. He saw Obi Wan do it in the first movie. I guarantee Yoda wouldn't teach him that shit. Especially since he LEFT Yoda before that could even come up. She initially used it on instinct, then started trying shit out. Then she goes up against the big bad who is INJURED (as they repeatedly showed during the fight with Finn) and emotionally compromised and wins. I didn't know villains should have infinite power regardless of their mental and physical state.
Bitch was good, but she was far from perfect. Couldn't fire a blaster. Got knocked out and captured. Oh, and she was this person with potential who was willing to run back home to wait for mommy and daddy instead of live her life. Something she only gives up when weird shit starts to happen to her and she's finally confronted with her shit.
The only character with zero development was Poe. He was the first person we saw but we got nothing from him.
>>63875954
Rey
>>63877464
the TFA pretty much made the prequels non cannon. They talk about the force as a mysterious energy binding all living things instead of microscopic bacteria and the jedi are considered a myth when in the prequels the jedi were pretty much common space cops. Im pretty sure they would remember the jedi a few decades after their extinction.
>>63878404
Rey being well versed in the myth of jedi and their abilities, finding out she has that power and seeing Kylo do them is enough to start learning.
"do or do not, there is no try"
>>63878560
>Jedi are considered a myth
By literally one character. Rey lived under a rock and heard stuff she had no way to confirm as true. In New Hope, Luke knew about the Clone Wars, meaning he knew Jedi were a thing. Meanwhile, Han Solo thinks it's all superstitious bullshit because he hasn't seen any of it.
People live in different environments and learn different things. Jedi haven't been omnipresent so not everyone know all the truths about their existence.
real star wars fans hate this movie but its necessary to pass on to the kids
this movie is for new star wars fans
>>63873428
>Add considerable amounts of world building and new lore
>Actually provides new insights into already known elements of the Star Wars universe and fleshes out what we've been speculating on for years
>midichlorians banged your mom lol
>>63877903
The story is about a galaxy far far away, where a rebel/resistant force is battling against an empire/order. I doesn't need to be focused solely on the Skywalkers, as if they are the family that determines the destinies of an entire galaxy. Your unwavering support of a crap franchise is more autistic than anything.
>>63876173
>there is so much wrong with this
nice argument
I understand why people like you enjoyed this movie
>>63878842
It's for making money. Kids are just a great investment.
>>63878404
>Oh, you mean because of the line "It's the right thing to do."
No. He said he didn't want to kill for others anymore after seeing his friend die and innocents slaughtered.
Then he turns around and murders dozens of stormtroopers and even makes shitty quips about it like he's an action hero.
What?
>The reason was different, though.
So? Same Han until the very end, then killed off minutes later.
>Oh, okay,
Not even going to bother debating this with you. Everyone knows Rey is a Sue. Just because she is your waifu doesn't change that fact.
>>63879090
Haha it's like you didn't read anything after that where the argument actually dissects the quote.
>>63879146
>Bad guys I don't want to be part of are trying to kill me. Guess I gotta just die.
>Not gonna argue because she's your waifu
Nice rebuttal.
>>63879084
The story is the drama of the Skywalkers, the various wars are just the backdrop. That's why the main series will always focus on the Skywalkers. You have to be in high school if you can't grasp this basic conceit of storytelling.
And there have been plenty of other side stories about other characters in the universe. But the main story has always been about the Skywalkers.
>>63873428
It's simple, famalamadingdong, the prequels were an epic, something that stays with you, that you will remember forever. A rich fleshed out world to draw yourself in.
The sequels are gonna be quick, fun action flicks you watch at the cinema with your friends and forget about completely the next day.
>>63874416
SAVE YER CONFEDERATE CREDITS BOYS
THE RIM WILL RISE AGAIN
>>63873535
>only a Shitposter deals in shitposts. I'll do what I must.
>>63875649
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vT7vD8uAGEQ
I get what you're saying but if this was more organic it would be perfect. Honestly I don't even think the CGI detracts from this shot.
Midichlorians
TFA wasn't about world-building. It was about righting the ship that Lucas had steered into the rocks.
>>63878560
OH MY GOD MIDICHLORIANS WERE CATALYSTS FOR PEOPLE TO USE THE FORCE NOT THE FORCE ITSELF
AND THE EMPIRE DID EVERYTHING IN THEIR POWER TO ERADICATE THE JEDI IF HITLER WON NOBODY WOULD BELIEVE THAT JEWS EXISTED
>>63879706
>It was about righting the ship that Lucas had steered into the rocks.
By copying and pasting ANH.
>>63875694
The movie is 90% real
http://boards.theforce.net/threads/practical-effects-in-the-prequels-sets-pictures-models-etc.50017310/
>>63875278
>This retard didnt notice when Rey wears Anakin's fucking podracing helmet while eating her half-portion
>>63873622
The Phantom Menace is shot on film
>>63879706
Ship was a bit off course and they turned it completely backwards.
>>63875278
Those super acrobatic extended lightsaber fights were the bomb.
>>63873428
>Giving a shit about the LORE
My fucking sides. People dissed Lucas becaus the prequels wanted to their own things. Which was stupid as fuck. Everyone wanted to see more of the original plot. Even if that meant rehashing the same plot points. Lesson learnt since it's what they did with the force awakens.
>>63875971
In b4 he comes back as a negro cybrog and again a senator is the bad guy.
>>63879872
you mean this thing?
No she was wearing an x wing pilots helmet
>>63879982
People dissed Lucas because all the lore was fucking talking about things that eventually didn't matter and barely showed us the war theater that set up the events for the original trilogy.
People probably did want to see how shit went down but didn't want to get through 40 minutes of talking about it.
>>63876194
this, TFA is clearly better as a movie but as far as universe and lore are concerned it kind of bombs
>build a third deathstar
>best one yet
>still has same weakness as gen1
>shitty old x-wing still pwns it
>>63873428
>nobody can refute this
>all those buttmad ad hominem replies
>all these people defending the rehash because of their hype and bias and investments
>>63880131
He didn't lose any limbs and his injuries were healing. There's no reason for him to be a cyborg.
>>63880289
Seeing the numbers, people wanted to see SW IV : 2.0
>>63875566
Not being able to come to terms with yours and your loved ones mortality is a very genuine concern. You're clutching at straws anon.
>>63880293
>X Wings couldn't damage it unless a scrappy team infiltrated it and exploded the defenses.
Again.
I had a problem with this too. The team that went to blow this one up was far smaller than the original team. AND the fleet that went was smaller too. The defenses on the new weapon was way fucking superior than the older one.
>>63879706
Yeah, but they took it in the wrong direction. They took it in the cheap-marvel-popculture-easy money route, when they should've continued steering it in the timeless classic-epic adventure route.
I was expecting the latter until JJ was confirmed. I was still hopeful he will make something out of it, but he chose to do the smart thing instead of the right thing.
The "prequels suck" meme is pure Reddit.
Liking any part of this new not-Star Wars is pure Reddit.
>>63880314
it's not really wrong but I also don't think it detracts from my positive feelings on VII
I think the star wars world was very different between eps 3 and 4, and everything post 4 (including 7) is kind of built off of each other. Lucas had to build up a bunch of shit entirely from scratch for 1-3.
My main criticism of 7 (even though I loved it) was that it didn't do a good job building up the current world, such as defining the relationships between the First Order, the republic and the resistance.
>>63873535
>tfw a shitlord
I loved Phantom Menace when I was a kid. Plus it made for some good Star Wars games.
I watched the prequels again last year and they are still fun to watch. Too much CGI though.
>>63880682
I don't see the appeal of 7. It was an entertaining action movie, but it doesn't really draw you in the world like the OT or even the prequels. What do you like about it so much?
>>63880502
the ""prequels suck" is a Reddit meme" meme is pure reddit
Because JJ is just a fanboy, he doesn't have the ambition to be a creator, or take risks.
>>63880851
>What do you like about it so much?
There is so much going on with the characters. Rey is stuck on a desert planet, like Luke, but she is there because she is afraid of missing her parents. She is torn between being stuck to the past and looking towards the future. Finn is the examination of what it would be like to be one of those random mooks who's given a gun and told to shoot the innocent people at the end of the landing platform. He's terrified of the First Order, but he's willing to do anything to protect the people he cares about. Kylo Ren is a weak baby obsessed with Darth Vader who thinks putting on the mask will make him tough. He's drawn to the light side and full of pain, and decides he'll just murder the source of his pain, his father, rather than deal with it. Compare to the prequels where the characters are absolute fucking nobodies with no depth whatsoever. Great performances from everyone, even the minor characters like General Hux, who fucking kills it with that Nazi speech
Every action setpiece is justified by the characters. Even a duel with a random stormtrooper is justified by the stormtrooper recognizing Finn and wanting to beat the TRAITOR into the ground. Compare to the prequels where half the fights just exist for their own sake and the jedi cut up the robots like butter. The movie doesn't focus on the fucking boring politics and exposition. The setting is used to justify the characters, not the other way around like the prequels, but unfortunately faggots who were raised on episode 1 thinks Star Wars is about politics so they take it as a negative.
so yeah, Force Awakens is actually good and hating it is a contrarian meme opinion
>>63879715
This. They were basically a middle man between The Force and people. They are not The Force, which is still a mystical energy source. I rewatched TPM the other day and Qui-Gon makes this distinction. He says that through the midichlorians people are able to know the will of The Force, not that they are The Force.
>>63881229
>so yeah, Force Awakens is actually good and hating it is a contrarian meme opinion
So basically your opinion has to be shaped by RLM or you're contrarian?
But ok you answered my question, you like the movie because of the characters. I still don't see the appeal since on top of the bad pacing, no sense of scale, unoriginal story, unorganic quip dialog, i found the characters unlikable and unrelateable.
>>63880223
Fuck its true you are right
TFA was a giant mary sue delivery vehicle, with the mary sue being Rey who literally pulls every solution out of her ass and automatically knows how to pilot, fight, and use jedi mind tricks with 0 training and 0 knowledge after spending her entire life as a scavenger getting by on food scraps
sorry but no excuse, you can't apologize for bad writing
Nobody gives a fuck about lore or canon. Seeing all these reviews where people are jizzing in rags about Rey having to go through the 7 steps to being a Jedi or whatever the fuck is hilarious cos there isn't a chance they're gonna do that shit.
Stay mad nerds
the prequels are an "epic" in the same way that Eragon and Sword of Truth are "epics".
>>63882992
>defending mary sue
shit taste pleb
>>63883047
My post had nothing to do with Rey as a character, idiot. Read it again.
Yesterday talking to one of my friends, I was explaining to her that it's bad because it's a remake of ANH. Her answer was, "if people liked it before then there is no reason to change it. People will like it again. And those who haven't seen it will experience with a more modern approach."
How are people, after knowing it's a remake, still somehow okay with paying to see it again?
>>63882996
Nah, more like Dune. Great atmosphere, great soundtrack, great story, but disliked by the lowly plebeians.
Dune is better than both the OT and the prequels though, i hate having to compare it with them. The lameness of TFA brought me down to this level.
>>63883527
what, exactly, about the braindead story in the prequels is supposed to be so great?
i just love how you guys that defend the prequels are always like, but MUH WORLDBUILDING, but MUH POLITICS, you just don't GET IT you marvel-drone!
the prequels are bad because they told a shitty story with giant plot holes. they would still be bad movies in the absence of TFA or even the original trilogy. they're just bad movies, by themselves, in a vacuum, not in comparison to anything else. they aren't Legend of the Galactic Heroes or Dune. get over it.
>>63883796
Lets be honest here, lady, you only like TFA because you're a feminist. C'mon let's not kid ourselves.
>>63883405
Because they enjoyed it.
>>63883993
i didn't say that I either liked or disliked TFA.
>>63873622
>film is good
nice meme
>>63884040
We both know you liked it.
>>63884108
i like the way you're talking to me bby <3
>>63874264
You just can't excuse the TOTAL lack of filmmaking competence in the prequel trilogy.
Not a single one of OP's alleged "contributions" actually work because there isn't the basic storytelling chops to communicate it.
I would rather watch 9 hours of Rey telling Finn to stop holding her hand then endure another moment of Hayden and Ewan's on screen "chemistry". You can go on about racism and Mary Sue all you want, there is just a basic level of competence in TFA that you basically never see in the prequels.
The one exception that comes to mind is when Qui Gonn kneels and meditates during the duel with Maul. Lovely moment.
>>63884207
Oh, o-ok.
>>63874627
If the prequels aren't canon then why is Snoke actually Darth Plagueis?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqpy8YYQ2-I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSQ3BJVMfAI
>>63884442
haha you cant handle me..beta nerd... <3
>>63883360
>still defending mary sue
>>63883405
because its not a remake you fuckin autist. there are some similarities but its a completely different movie.
>>63884545
bb, for you i would catch a shooting star
>>63875168
What is "conditional contract?"
Lucas probably had a clause in there that Disney can't remake any of the original movies. And if not that, there's the issue of Fox holding the distribution rights to the original films which probably would make remaking the prequels impossible.
>>63876386
But it did it implicitly. You see a bunch of alien races in Mos Eisleys and are left to wonder about them. TFA takes much more of this approach than people actually explaining, in dialog, what bacteria does.
>>63877980
This is not so much world building so much as the plot of the movie. The Jedi, for example, are alluded to, but you are by no means a KotoR historian after watching Ep 4.
>>63875518
the way i always saw it is that the prophecy was to "bring balance to the force"
sheev/anakin did that because of how many jedi they killed thus ending the large imbalanced ratio of jedi>sith
>>63884503
John Williams is old, he's out of ideas and VII should have really been done by Michael Giacchino.
Snoke is OC.
>>63884503
but Plagueis' theme was inspired by this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_azNOrE2nSM
>>63873428
Stop trying, just kill yourself contrarian.
>>63879146
>Everyone knows Rey is a Sue.
She is universally revered everywhere but /tv/
Virtually every review you will find on TFA says that the new characters are good, the fan service and pandering is bad
Only on /tv/ are Finn and Rey the big problems, and I'm sure you don't need me to tell you why.
>>63878776
So your saying people wouldn't know about the hundreds of jedi in a huge republic that turned into the galactic empire a few decades ago. it doesn't make any sense. they should have made the jedi a smaller more secret organization. in the prequels they were pretty much common space cops.
>>63873622
Yes, if the prequels were completely different from what they currently ate, they could have been good.
>>63885151
I loved Finn. Ridley was a competent actress, but I think the writing held her back a bit.
>>63873428
So is the whole "facsimile" thing the only reason contrarians can think of to shit on this film?
>>63884994
You could interpret it as things needed to "start over" from scratch and so it was necessary for Anakin to first purge the Jedi and then the Sith.
Really, though, the prophecy doesn't play a huge role in the films. And I actually think it's better that way as far as the films are concerned. What matters is that the Jedi Order took in Anakin, perhaps against their better judgment because of a vague prophecy and it led to their downfall, but Anakin eventually returns to the light. However, whether he does so because of the prophecy or simply because he made the choice or something inbetween is kind of up to the viewer to decide. I think Lucas didn't want to focus too much on the Chosen One prophecy in the movies precisely because it wasn't really a part of the OT.
Leave all that stuff to the Expanded Universe to work out.
>>63885540
LOL, like it's not enough. Where are your fucking standards, man?
>so is the whole "tastes like shit" the only reason you don't like eating shit?
I actually like Phantom Menace for its rich atmosphere and art design. (I barely remember II and III) It really made me feel extreme warm and fuzzies. But:
>Phantom Menace
>Bland writing that even makes Obi-Wan boring (though I liked the implied tension between him and Quai-Gon. Was handled better in the book)
>literally none of the spunk and attitude that made a lot of people fans of Star Wars in the first place
>Takes itself so seriously we have to watch a bunch of political shit and nonsensical government espionage to fool ourselves into thinking this is some serious, sweeping epic
>All the humor is Looney Tunes and farts
>TFA
>Wow, ACTUAL FUCKING characters
>I laughed of my own accord multiple times
>had an actual villain instead of two Asian stereotypes, a stunt-man, and neutered Palpatine
>Non Star Wars fans are like "holy shit, this is fun," whereas with Phantom Menace they're like "why do people like Star Wars?"
What did Force Awakens add to the lore? How about energy?
>>63885861
literally the most reddit tier post itt, fuck off
>>63873428
>>Add considerable amounts of world building and new lore
Yeah I loved the whole midichlorian thing
>>63885861
So you like TFA because it's a bland, watered down version of star wars, got it. Just don't call yourself a star wars fan, ktnxbye.
>>63885911
Fuck you, I spent like two minutes thing that on my phone.
>tfw I don't even know what being reddit means anymore.
>>63886027
I like fun movies. Phantom Menace isn't fun.
>>63886120
So you don't like starwars. Ok, just say that.
>>63885165
I'm not saying this. The movies say this. I'm not saying it's not weird that they'd forget an organization that had their own massive building on a senate homeworld. That's Lucas being dumb, not me.
>>63886027
>Phantom Menace is bland and full of exposition and boring politics with flat characters
>Force Awakens is lively and fun with minimal politics and exposition
>somehow Force Awakens is the "bland" movie to this contrarian memer
are Prequel apologists actually serious or are they just b8ing? I don't even know anymore
>>63875649
The cinematography was quite good in The Phantom Menace. The scenes that weren't just two characters speaking against a blue screen were pretty good in the other two as well.
>>63886174
Last I checked all three OT movies are fun as fuck.
>That feel when you like the prequels and dislikes TFA
>>63876348
>Rey only won because Kylo was wounded and emotional
this would only make him stronger in fact, if he was dark side or sith. not weaker. see literally any other dark side character.
>>63886282
>i don't like depth, i just want to turn off my brain and watch a bunch of explosions and quips
ok matey. The only thing i don't get is why do you pretend to like star wars at all?
>>63886362
Kylo Ren is obviously conflicted, as seen with his scene with Han. He doesn't have a full grasp of the Dark Side. He's like an edgy teenager that shallowly becomes a Satanist to piss off his Christian parents.
>>63886356
Thats your herd mentality talking. It's just as slow, full of childish characters, silly george lucas writing, etc. as the prequels, they're nothing like avengers.. err i mean the force awakens.
>>63886427
Have you even WATCHED A New Hope? Or Empire Strikes Back? Shit, even Jedi? Holy fuck, even the PREQUELS! Have YOU actually watched Star Wars or do you just read the EU books? ALL of the movies have been about action, adventure, and quips. The prequels were just absolutely shit at it.
>>63886525
I don't recall anybody in Force Awakens stepping in the poopy.
>inb4 reddit meme
>>63874109
Dumb eggposter
>>63886736
Of course not, that would be deviating from the marvel formula, how can they make their avengers with lightsabers if they do that?
>>63886427
>prequels have some vague mentions of trade disputes that make zero sense and some hamfisted jabs at the war on terror
OMG SO DEEP 10/10 LET ME SUCK YOUR BIG FAT CHODE GEORGE LUCAS YOU'RE SUCH AN ARTIST
>>63886959
You keep mentioning Avengers like it's not a fun fucking movie.
>model airplanes
>>63873428
Don't even try, OP. People don't want originality anymore. They just want the same old shit modernized and easy-to-be-consumed.
>>63875037
>keep hoping for years that TFA won't be a mediocre film that leans too much on the OT
>it is
I wish it was as good as the OT, or as bad as the PT. Instead it's just another mediocre Abrams flick.
>>63886967
>war on terror in 1999
>to dumb to understand what's going on
I see why you like TFA, just stop pretending you like the OT too.
>>63887105
It's a fun dumb forgettable movie, star wars is an epic.
>>63873535
Hi, /co/
Mary Sues are shit no matter how many warm and fuzzy empowered fee-fees you get
>>63873535
>>63873587
>>63873625
>>63873647
>>63873657
>>63873829
>>63873968
>OP makes perfectly logical argument
>3/4 responses so far are memeing and shitposts saying OP is shitposting
never change, /co/
>>63887582
>implying it's never been dumb and fun
>>63886218
it's not unlikely that people on the more central planets / systems know the jedi were real, but it's different in outer rim planets. Even during the clone wars many people in the outer rim colonies majorly underestimate jedi, meaning they don't really have an extensive knowledge about them. Not hard to believe that after several decades those people could think of them as just myths.
Abrams has nothing to do with Marvel, you can accuse this movie of all sorts of shit but what the fuck does it have to do with the (PT-esque) Avengers?
>>63879090
Way to ignore everything else that was argued.
Finn is Jar Jar
>>63886427
