Did anyone else go back and rewatch the prequels after TFA and realize they weren't actually all that bad? TFA feels like it was created by a machine that was told to make a derivative work based on Episodes 4-6 and it tries so hard not to introduce anything new to the series or offend any fans that it fails to establish itself as a new entry while the prequels at least have the balls to try their own thing, even if it's not all that great at all times. Seriously, you guys should give the prequels another chance with as little prejudice as possible and you'll enjoy them.
/tv/ is literally Contrarian - The Board. Whatever is popular is hated and whatever is unpopular is loved.
It's a widely accepted fact that the prequels had terrible CGI, horrendous dialogue, and a poorly written/executed plot. Now that people are liking TFA all these "I gotta be different" people are coming out of their holes to praise the prequels in an attempt to be some sort of high taste patrician who sees what us plebs are too blind to appreciate. Shit's pathetic.
>>63866522
I wanted to watch all the movies before I go see Force Awakens so I could take notes.
>>63866522
it's more of an issue if you watch the highlights of the prequels.
stuff like the Duel of Fates, Unlimited Power, etc, totally outclasses TFA, it has nothing on the level of those scenes.
but if you watch the full movies then you're stuck with those scenes being surrounded with drivel.
nigga they are literally great
>>63866575
>>63866633
Only Redditors say Reddit, Redditor.
>>63866575
>terrible CGI
Are you a literal child? That shit was mindblowing.
>>63866612
This to be honest. Though I still like the prequels and think they're pretty decent movies, there is a problem of their highest points being surrounded by a lot of stuff that is just meh-tier if not cringe.
TFA probably succeeds because it follows the Marvel and Disney formula though and I can understand why people might be nostalgic for the prequels instead.
>>63866522
>created by a machine that was told to make a derivative work based on Episodes 4-6
so just like the prequels, then?
By their own nature the prequels only serve to make their end point match the OT's starting point. Absolutely nothing original is introduced despite the scenario being WILDLY different.
Old Ben Kenobi, "Vader was seduced by the dark side of the force" and their duel is still all you need to know about the prequels. And you don't need to watch them to know that.
>>63866522
Nah TFA > any of the prequels. That's not to say they didn't have their moments, but as entire films they were pretty bad. I can watch any of the Original Trilogy films whenever I want and enjoy them, while the prequels I have to be in a special mood to bother watching.
Nope. Just checked.
They are still terrible.
>>63866575
The last third of ROTJ started the decline, the Prequels dragged it to new depths and TFA is the nail in the coffin.
>>63866715
>Old Ben Kenobi, "Vader was seduced by the dark side of the force" and their duel is still all you need to know about the prequels. And you don't need to watch them to know that.
By the same logic, The Force Awakens has even less reason for existing.
>>63866612
I think that's the thing with prequels. There's a lot of shit but when it hits the marks its great, and you can't help but remember those parts. Hell as bad as episode 2 is, you can't help but admit at least Across the Stars was an amazing piece of music.
In a few years time, there's not going to be anything from TFA that sticks with you, it has no real identity. TFA is the Jen bush is to the prequels Trump.
>>63866679
Episode 2 and some of 3 always looked crap.
>>63866776
How so? It's creating a new story that explores what happens after the Empire goes down.
There's nothing that spells out what would happen.
I mean, it's a little unfair to point that out and I know it. But it's what you get when you do a prequel. It's REALLY hard to mantain any sort of dramatic tension when you already have a predetermined end you need to reach.
>>63866698
TFA's "success" is arguably a moot point, because even the people who like it acknowledge it's New Hope 2.0
for me the only success would have been a genuinely good new Star Wars movie. I didn't delude myself that we were going to get one, but it was 100% achievable possible if they'd actually tried.
discussion and comparison with the prequels is ALMOST meaningless because they are bad for completely different reasons. instead people are just forced to rationalize what Disney gave us by acknowledging that it was superficially well-executed. it's almost not worth talking about because the prequels were not what should have been providing the basis for comparison.
>>63866575
>STOP DISLIKING THE FIRCE AWAKENS HOW DARE YOU TO HATE THIS MOVIE WITH SUCH A BIG MATKETING COST
Is this the most stock marketing quote by Disney?
>>63866522
>the prequels
>own thing
Recycling every character imaginable from Greedo to Aunt Beru, and making it so that Darth Vader built C3PO doesn't constitute originality. At least TFA had new main characters and settings.
>>63866842
the empire goes down and is replaces by an expy that might as well be the empire for the sake of the story.
>>63866522
The first one still holds up
>>63866522
for some things i liked the prequels more. Or at the very minimum, i'll put TFA on par with the prequels.
TFA was shit
Why this HAS TO be a contrarian opinion? Not that i care much
>>63866947
But it's not an empire of anything. Where did it come from? What are their true goals?
>>63866522
1 is shit, 2 is meh
3's good
that's it. I'm leaving until the star wars shitposting dies down. It's made you all lose your minds to the point where a board that prides itself on patrician taste is praising the fucking star wars prequel trilogy in order to appear cool and different.
You guys are fucking pathetic.
>>63866522
If you mean by "actually all that bad" meaning that I had already been burned by them, was aware of their flaws and therefore could enjoy them at a different level than going in blind, then yes.
That doesn't make them good movies, both Episode I and II are genuinely awful in different ways and Episode III, while not entirely terrible, is problematic by virtue of just being connected to the two turds that preceded it.
What they did well though was world building, mostly there to sell more toys and other media, but it did serve The Clone Wars series well, which is a tier or two above the prequels when it's not a Jar Jar or a Meebur Gascon episode. A series that makes you care about the characters and struggles on screen, a series that actually makes Anakin come off as the best star pilot in the galaxy, a cunning warrior and a good friend.
Too bad Disney decided to cancel it when it was at its height, makes me wish George would have sold the franchise after he finished it.
Ah, here we go. In order to shit on TFA some more, we're now saying the prequels weren't that bad.
Get fucked, you niggers. ROTS may have been decent, but it's still a terrible trilogy.
>>63867010
You think they would have had some exposition saying what they are and how the republic seemed to have missed their rise
>>63866873
>discussion and comparison with the prequels is ALMOST meaningless because they are bad for completely different reasons. instead people are just forced to rationalize what Disney gave us by acknowledging that it was superficially well-executed. it's almost not worth talking about because the prequels were not what should have been providing the basis for comparison.
True, but it's the people who liked Force Awakens or who predisposed themselves to liking Force Awakens who made the comparisons to the prequels in order to justify what Disney threw at them.
The news articles saying "Consensus: it's better than the prequels." Like you said, the prequels fall short for very different reasons than why people are condemning force awakens.
What I was saying though is that I can see why some people can justify liking the prequels better over something that while apparently executed better is probably just run of mill Disney/Marvel shit with a Star Wars skin.
I like the stories and stuff but the CGI is just horrible sometimes
Phantom Menace was the best PT film.
The acting is wooden and the dialog is cliche, but the music is wonderful and the fight choreography is well done.
Episode 3 had the GOAT movie fight
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xP3fI7yn5s
>>63867153
>fight choreography is well done.
if you're watching a half-time dance show maybe
>>63866522
Same here. Tfa made the prequels look good because it was so bland and medicore
>>63867182
this is a reddit-tier criticism. it's a movie. It's not real fighting, it's allowed to be a little dancey. The OT had like zero choreography at all, you just forget that because you feel more connected to the characters, which is something the OT has above the PT, but the PT at least has some genuine effort put into its lightsaber fights.
>>63866522
>/tv/ likes the prequels now because they're so unpopular
>/tv/ hates TFA because it's popular
This board is so predictable.
It's like that 10th Kike in World War Z.
If 9 people all agree on something, it's the job of the 10th to disagree.
The story it self in the prequels weren't bad, even in Episode 2 it was a lot of intresting and new content in there, it's the bad casting and acting that dragged them down
>>63867166
It could have been this great, emotionally thrilling scene. Former friends/brothers dueling to the death despite neither really wanting to, a master forced into an ultimatum by his student, a harrowing conclusion to a problematic epic. Too bad the drawn out volcano level of a video game got in the way of its emotional impact.
>>63867182
And you didn't even post the light saber twirl. Gif. Well... My response would be that since Anikan was trained by Obi Wan, of course their fighting technique would mirror each other.
>>63867272
It's also the fact that the story, while good in its premise is full of holes, but EUfags who read every fucking comic or novel tying into the movies don't really have to worry about that as much.
Who's Count Dooku and why is he important? Ask an EUfag, he'll know.
It's a flaw of the prequels, but not one that makes them complete trash.
>>63866522
>Qui Gon Jin's death was the most emotional death in all of starwars.
Anyone else realize this yet?
>>63867250
It's allowed to be a little dancey, sure.
If it was actually entertaining it'd help. But it's a waste of time while you wait for something to actually happen. None of the fights carry any tension because characters and motivations are shit, sure. But the twirling and shit also doesn't help if you're trying to take it seriously as a duel.
They're great to look at, but they're too flat.
>>63867312
move over mr gin, Han Solo takes over from now on
>>63866910
>>63867254
>implying i didn't like jurassic world
>implying i didn't like interstellar
>implying i didn't like guardians of the galaxy
>>63866575
I don't think anybody is saying the prequels are good. I do think fans are acknowledging that the prequels had more of an original structure/direction/whatever than TFA. There's nothing dumb about pointing this out because it could influence the creators of VIII to veer from adapting the OT.
I have to say that I agree with OP.
Went to watch Force Awakens yetserday at my local cinema, and then came back home and, surprise, surprise, they were airing Attack of the Clones on TV as part of a campaign to advertise the new movie.
The movie was at the part in which they are fighting at the colosseum, and I was actually surprised at how much more fun than the whole Force Awakens that segment was.
All in all, you just read my thoughts, OP. Although I thought the new movie was still pretty entertaining.
>>63867334
>implying
>>63867314
>If it was actually entertaining it'd help.
It was entertaining. You're just jaded.
>But it's a waste of time while you wait for something to actually happen. None of the fights carry any tension because characters and motivations are shit, sure.
another stupid criticism. Just because you can't find it in yourself to care about those motivations is no one else's fault but your own. From a logical perspective the motivations are fine.
>But the twirling and shit also doesn't help if you're trying to take it seriously as a duel.
Only if you hate most modern kung fu flicks for the same reason. Some people don't care. The bullet dodge in the Matrix is goofy as shit, but if you stop taking a fucking movie too seriously for a second you might be able to enjoy it for what it's trying to do.
>>63867314
I just rewatched the fight. Not having Qui-Gon and Maul interact during the shield door part was a missed opportunity to raise the stakes.
>Prequels
>Anything original
Am I literally the only one who remembers that people were shitting on prequels because they were "copies" of the original trilogy back in the day? I guess self-plagiarism becomes poetry in time.
>>63867272
>bad casting
It's not even that. A competent director not afraid to work with his actors, J.J.Abrams for example, could have worked wonders with that cast, even made those terrible lines work.
It's just that Lucas isn't one.
He got the assistant/2nd unit directors to help with the "human stuff" on A New Hope and hired other directors for Empire and Jedi. He should have never taken the chair, focusing rather on a producer role in the prequels without at least practicing on two or three smaller films first or having someone to back him up.
It's ironic, but we have Kasdan in particular to thank for convincing Lucas that he should "go at it alone", that Star Wars was "his baby".
But to think about it, most of the things you people are complaining about in the prequels usually take no more than 30% screen time, the rest of the films is pretty decent with a lot of action and cool characters like Palpatine, Obi-Wan, Qui-Gon etc. Episode 3 was actually very good for the most part, better than even some original movies.
>>63867394
>It was entertaining. You're just jaded.
I wasn't entertained back then and I'm still not entertained now. Something like Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon has an art to the combats that makes it interesting to see. People doing the same flips and clashes over and over and over just stretches out a false tie while the movie switches to some other location.
>From a logical perspective the motivations are fine.
Yeah, the lava ride sure played their motivations into the fight really well. Two supposed friends are being forced to confront each other in a duel to the death. Time to get into that one Mario level.
>>63867383
I fucking got rock hard watching that coliseum battle where you get to see for the first time ever in real time so many Jedi in an era when they were supposed to be numerous and common place as staple warriors.
Then I got on the internet and everybody was complaining about how "too many lightsabers ruins the magic of the weapon," ignoring that the point was to show the contrast between this era which was being depicted and the one in the OT, which takes in a period where the thousands if not millions of Jedi warriors that once populated the galaxy are but a memory.
I'm not gonna act like there aren't serious problems with the prequels as movies, but petty criticisms like "too many lightsabers" and shit are just kinda dumb. And look what these criticisms got us. Kylo Ren helps the first order track down and exterminate the Jedi Knights, erasing the memory of the noble Jedi Order (again).
>>63867428
The prequels copy instances of the OT in snippets, they don't adapt any of its movies' structure.
>>63867416
The one moment where Obi Wan has to stand and wait to rush in is the only good moment of the entire fight. And nobody is moving.
I love the prequels and there's nothing you can do to stop me!
>>63867527
I also liked the colosseum scene the first time I watched it. It did seem to me a bit over the top at the time (probably the too many lightsabers shock that you described), but I still loved every second of it.
Say what you will about that movie, but the last 20 minutes of Attack of the Clones are a fucking well-made (if a bit over the top) action scene.
>>63867516
>Something like Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon has an art to the combats that makes it interesting to see.
Yeah, nah. Stuff like Crouching Tiger actually goes way too far even for a martial arts movie and the kinds of "art" to such movies combat sequences is often more pretentious than anything Lucas does. the fights in the prequels actually feel more grounded than many other martial arts movies, especially stuff in the line of Crouching Tiger and Matrix which are immortalized mostly in the form of people making fun of how fucking ridiculous they looked in the highest moments.
>Yeah, the lava ride sure played their motivations into the fight really well. Two supposed friends are being forced to confront each other in a duel to the death. Time to get into that one Mario level.
First of all, it doesn't take away anything from their motivations. Secondly, George Lucas specifically chose a lava planet because he wanted to create a hellish sort of imagery to go with the fight. Now admittedly Lucas got out of hand with special effects and just trying to make the biggest, most epic fight ever when he could have gotten away with something more like TPM's fight. In this case, Lucas took too many tips from stuff like Crouching Tiger because he wanted to end his saga on the biggest and loudest note he could. While it looks silly in some places, there's alot more to appreciate than to scorn or laugh at.
>>63867416
You're stupid. Quii gon is showing his training here. He sits and meditates not giving into antagonizing or his anxieties/emotions. Maul is more rash. He tests the shield, then paces
>>63867354
>guardians of the galaxy
Hello reddit.
>>63867383
>>63867527
My disappointment with that Colosseum battle wasn't on a conceptual level, I would have been thrilled to see so many Jedi's fighting side by side if done competently. It's just that the execution of it all was the least engaging one imaginable, watching them mundanely run around in distancing wide shots, flailing their swords around like idiots while not really relying on their super powers and getting put down easily like the common unnamed droid or clone. It made something that should have been extraordinary mundane and unengaging.
>>63867416
>>63867687
Originally George wanted there to be some dialogue between Maul and the Jedi, but he felt it upset the whole tone of the sequence. Like, Maul was originally going to have some dialogue with Obi-Wan after killing Qui Gon.
>>63867542
TPM
>A peaceful government vs an oppressive force
>The female member of royalty needs to deliver a warning message to another planet.
>The message ends up on Tatooine without any reasonable means to proceed.
>With the help of a force sensitive and a desert farmboy heroes are finally able to get the message across.
>The bad guys sabotage means for the message to be delivered (destroying Alderaan, removing chancellor).
>"I guess we'll have to do this on our own"
>The fight begins, the wise jedi dies.
>Celebration and medals.
Though I must admit, the "spark of creativity" in TPM, podracing scene, was much better than the shit with rathars.
>>63866522
the prequels arent that good (Revenge of Sith was halfway decent) but yes, it least George tried to create something new. Force Awakens is just a soulless rehash of New Hope
>>63867745
>Forgot to hire a writer
Oops!
>>63867751
Yeah, I get it that people here were born after the prequels were released, but you have to be blind not to see that most of the Star Wars movies follow the same formula and prequels were shat upon for the same reasons, for being too much of rehashes.
Just because Lucas used some new imagery it doesn't mean his script is any less derivative of originals than TFA. Phantom Menace was literally a copy of ANH with the exception of super weapon and podracing.
>>63867742
Well, I thought it was awesome.
>>63867729
>calling me reddit
>you like the force awakens
wut
>>63867742
To be honest, I think George at times wanted the Jedi to feel less like gods and more like ordinary people who just had a unique talent.
When you watch something like Genndy's micro-cartoon about the Clone Wars or The Force Unleashed, it's like "how the hell did the Jedi lose in that arena?" But then the selling point of these products was that they showed the Force being used in ways you'd never see in the movies which maintained a more healthy balance between animu power shit and realistic less stylized action sequences
But I think that one thing George did wrong in that part was rely too much on green/blue screen. Other parts, the blue/greenscreen is not an issue, but when battling CG droids who aren't there and trying to direct dozens of extras is no doubt difficult.
>>63866522
quit with this fucking cheap bait
>>63867853
>Phantom Menace was literally a copy of ANH with the exception of super weapon and podracing.
Except it wasn't. The plot follows a very different course. You can point out a few poetic rhymes (George first used his poetry line when discussing how Anakin blows up the droid control ship and luke blew up the death star), but the film's story itself is unique and explores themes and ideas A New Hope didn't.
The plots aren't even the same despite the reuse of some locations and concepts.
It's hilarious how TFA feels more like it's a rehash despite not using any of the same locations as the previous films.
George Lucas is the creative force and the vision of Star Wars. Without him you have only a shadow...Disney IS the Dark side of the force and those opposing Lucas' vision are just minions of the dark side! Who always pay in the end!
>>63868053
>implying jakku isn't just tatooine
>implying that other planet isn't just endor
>>63868053
Exactly. It's like it goes out of its way to convince that these are all new planets but they still look the same as Tatooine, Hoth, and Coruscant.
>>63867949
>To be honest, I think George at times wanted the Jedi to feel less like gods and more like ordinary people who just had a unique talent.
I'm aware, but it comes off more as an excuse for his laziness when you watch the behind the scenes stuff rather than something he genuinely wanted.
He shot almost everything on greenscreen to avoid wire work and having to make puppets and props beyond models for the CGI crew. That's why everything is so flat and uninspired, that's the main reason the Jedi extras come off as more incompetent than the average clone than the superhuman warriors they were hyped up to be by Lucas himself.
>>63868084
isn't that kind of the point: they use "different locations" that are just the same ones with a different coat of paint and repeat the same story told before and hope nobody will come off the emotional thrill ride high in time to notice?. Meanwhile, the only familiar planet in TPM is Tatooine and yet the role it plays is actually much different from the role it played in ANH and even the culture of Tatooine is explored more than it was in ANH.
>>63868128
Agree 100%
>>63868128
>[...] And I just thought, we’re casting this show and we have an opportunity to do anything we want, why not cast the show with actors of color?"
Thats the only thing Jew Jar Abrams cared instead of making an original story
>>63868180
>Chancellor Vellurum basically only had one scene for god's sake!!!
Alderaan is in one scene too. It doesn't matter, what matters is that the Princess/Queen can't deliver the message anymore. Literally the same plot device.
>>63866575
Ep 7 is absolute soulless trash. The prequels were masterpieces by comparison.
>>63866522
I'm sick and tired of people saying the prequels weren't that bad even though they're bad
Stop fucking making excuses so /tv/ doesn't bash you just tell the truth
The prequels were good who gives a shit if they attack you after that stop adding that damage control after your opinions
Prequels were good deal with it force awakens is good I'm dealing with it
If anything with the retarded way people are ranking 7 above originals it says a lot that they never even saw the originals as good they just claimed to like them cause something better wasn't out
>>63868364
But the entire plot with Palpatine engineering the famine to engender the Queen's mission is rendered void by Palpatine when he checks Vellorum in the Senate by blaming him for the famine. All of that works fairly well except that Palpatine is rendered void as there's no clear resolution of his power.
>>63867751 #
This is too wild... That message about Naboo's situation was very heavily diluted in the midst of things like Boss Nass, the decoy, the podrace, midichlorians, Jarjar hamming it up, and everything else.
Terrence Stamp who played Chancellor Vellorum basically only had one scene for god's sake!!!
With the Phantom Menace, certain plot holes abound... Couldn't the Queen make a phone call from Tatooine if the Naboo communications were jammed?
What if Darth Maul stopped the Queen and the Jedi from contacting the Chancellor? Then Palpatine wouldn't receive the nomination because he wouldn't have the Queen there to blame the current Chancellor.
The mind boggles.
>>63868683
Maul was going easy on them
>>63868683
>With the Phantom Menace, certain plot holes abound... Couldn't the Queen make a phone call from Tatooine if the Naboo communications were jammed?
If they sent a communications out, the trade federation would possibly be able to track them. Plus, the point was to get the queen to safety, not so much send a message. So all the people talking about the plot revolving around a message are forgetting details. The queen herself is the package.
>What if Darth Maul stopped the Queen and the Jedi from contacting the Chancellor? Then Palpatine wouldn't receive the nomination because he wouldn't have the Queen there to blame the current Chancellor.
This is a legitimate criticism and it may be explained more thoroughly in the expanded universe, but off the top of my head, the main thing I can think of is that Sheev actually never expected Amidala to call for a vote of no confidence until that point. Amidala however proved much easier to play into his hands than anticipated.
>>63868811
I think that too she was a wild card and her over reaction really worked in his favor
Look who's back!
http://youtu.be/Oiqlkz81744
>>63867742
It makes sense if you buy that Jedi aren't meant to be warriors. If they had no tactical training and very little experience fighting in groups or against groups, them getting outmaneuvered and massacred in the arena would have made sense.
But they clearly ARE warriors in the prequels, even if they're not soldiers per se. They get put in charge of the clone army as 'generals' and seem to adapt to the role immediately, giving a bunch of strategic and tactical orders, and are still in the same position by episode III.
I never actually noticed this inconsistency before, but it is strange. EpI and most of II, you could buy that Jedi almost never fought large groups of enemies in open conflict. The rest of the prequels, it's like they were born to do it.
I went back and watched them.
They are as bad as I remember.
For the third I decided to play a drinking game. Everytime a robot is mindbogglingly useless of dumb you drink. Drink on a lightsaber pull.
I almost died.
I can appreciate what Lucas was trying to do as he structured the films symphonically , but they could have used a few rewrites
(And Michael Jackson should have been Jar Jar)
I wish that could just wish away my feelings.
>>63869083
>"May the Schwartz be with you!"
Oh my god, I'm like dialling 911 right now
>>63866522
>tries so hard not to introduce anything new
Why, it introduced Twilight-tier pretty edgy villain and foreshadowed that there will be a love triangle between Rey, Finn and him.
>>63866522
Just did. No, they are still bad movies. It is just your own contrarianism and nostalgia glasses.
>>63867334
Not for me. I was a kid when I saw Qui Gon die and cried the whole night.
>>63870448
Trouble at home?
>>63866522
This is quite frankly the worst opinion I have ever seen on this board.
>>63868279
>making an original story
The failure is strong with this one
>>63870928
None, other than my younger sister maniacally laughing at me for liking Qui Gon more than Obi Wan while I cried.
>>63867166
What I love about that scene is it highlights how bad Hayden Christensen is and how good Ewan McGregor is. Every line delivered by Hayden is goddamn awful, like somebody told an 8 year old kid to act evil. Conversely Ewan makes those terrible lines actually sound halfway powerful. Ewan is really the only good thing about the prequels.
>>63871617
Hayden is not a bad actor at all. I don't think he was very well suited for the role of Anakin, but that's besides the point. Natalie Portman is far from a terrible actress and her delivery is hardly much better in ROTS than Hayden's. If anything Hayden beats Natalie
>>63872273
I'm not talking in general, I'm talking about in those films. He is fucking awful, particularly in that scene.
It's like seeing an old friend!
https://youtu.be/BciOfJsqh7M
>>63866522
yeeah yeah, you used a cheap bait, I guess this makes you the master of the troll...
>>boringly click on the "post" button, quickly move to the next thread that will either be this fucking bait again, or another sw thread. makes you long for the days of "funposting" and bane threads....
>>63869450
>a love triangle between Rey, Finn and him.
You realize Rey and Ren are cousins, right?
>pottery
>>63872926
So what was going through George's head when he recreated this scene?
>>63866522
I did before it came out and they were that bad
>>63866575
Your post sounds like psychological projection to me. Maybe, just maybe, not everyone's motives for liking someone have anything to do with how they are perceived. Maybe some of us really just didn't like TFA that much.
>>63866575
>some sort of high taste patrician who sees what us plebs are too blind to appreciate
isn't this the truth though?
>>63866522
Reddit: The Post
