![083829[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/SZ8ln5F.jpg "083829[1].jpg")
I hadn't come to /tv/ because I wanted no spoilers about the new Ster Wers, so I come in today after watching the film, and I find that the most repeated criticism is
>le ANH 2.0
>rehash shit
>copypaste
And I really understand why some people would think this, but it's very obvious that the whole saga is cyclical. Just like Obi-Wan dying in AHN, and Qui-Gon dying in TPM,Solo dies in this one. Episode IV shows Luke discovering his new powers and what he can do with them, but is still insecure about many things. Episode IV shows Luke facing his dark side but ultimately overcoming it. Episode VI shows Luke embracing the force and becoming a fully fledged Jedi.
Just the same, Episode I shows Anakin discovering that he has an affinity with the force, with him being a great podracer while only a child. Episode II shows Anakin facing his dark side, but unlike his son, he fails to overcome it and gets seduced by it. Episode III shows Anakin embracing his dark side and becoming Darth Vader, a fully fledged Sith.
Now, Episode VIIshows Rey discovering her affinity with the forceand the next two episodes will most likely follow the same structure. Why is this a surprise now? It was obvious from the very start. Saying it's a rehash is a bland excuse for not having liked the film.
Also, Daisy Ridley is qt.
i hope when i get around to watching this piece of shit i don´t immediately come back to post about it
The movie is a 0/5. Awful editing/action scenes, zero gravitas. no attempts at emotional resonance ring true, because they feel like they popped off an assembly line in a nerd's basement. kylo ren is a cartoon, and has zero of the imposing nature of his idol. like a failed pilot episode of a star wars spinoff, this is a joke.
>someone actually typed all of that
Look dude, I ain't reading shit, and for your sake never do this again. This is the Celebrity & Meme board. Even if what you wrote was accurate it's still falling on deaf ears. This board is shit. This website is shit. Goodbye
>>63828362
> it's very obvious that the whole saga is cyclical
Bullshit. The saga may as well have ended with this picture of return of the jedi. Everything that comes afterwards is a pointless cashgrab by Disney.
>>63828445
Is this truly your opinion or are you just memespouting?
Say what you want about Jar Jar Abrahams, but he is one of the most skilled directors when it comes to fast paced action scenes, and the flying space battles deliver fully, I could feel the speed and tension during those scenes, whenPoe killed like five TIE fighters in 20 secondsI actually felt like getting up and waving an american flag, and I'm not even american. The attempts at emotional resonance never ring true because there are none. I don't remember crying at any Star Wars film before this one.Han Solo dyingwas intentionally made to be emotional but not to bring you to tears, just like it's not emotional when Obi-Wan dies or when Qui-Gon dies. Kylo Ren is not supposed to be an imposing figure like Darth Vader, at least not right now. Even the fact thatRey cut his face, leaving him a big scar acrossis testament to the fact that Kylo will most likely evolve to become an imposing figure, but as of episode VII, Kylo is what he's supposed to be, an edgy kid with divorced parents who got seduced by the dark side but has a lot of conflict within himself.
>>63828605
Of course it's a cashgrab, just like everything else in mainstream media nowadays. But it doesn't take away from the fact that this is a good Star Wars film, well thought out and well produced, a step up from the prequels and it lives up to the hype.
>>63828876
Why don't you care about the ending of return of the jedi and how this screws it over? Why don't you care that it turns out that the original trilogy characters ended up living shitty lives and their offspring were complete disappointments or abandoned?
>>63828362
The main problem I have with this movie is that it shits on original trilogy. Seriously, what was the purpose of OT now? What did the rebellion achieve? 30 years after and we have another Emperor, another Darth Vader, another Death Star (a fucking THIRD ONE) and another Empire. The First Order looks like it's controlling at least half of the galaxy (just remember how Finn was scared that Order will find him and he need to flee to Outer Rim) and is more powerful than old Empire with Starkiller Base.
>>63829097
>>63829119
Because there needs to be conflict. Killing the Emperor and destroying the Death Star was only the turning tide, but the millions of followers of the Empire weren't all on that second Death Star, just like they weren't all on the first. Luke still had a long way to go before he brought balance to the force and that's why he started building a new generation of Jedi. But with it, came Kylo Ren, because there can never be light without dark and blah blah blah.
Did you really think that Solo, the womanizer James Bond character and Leia, the hard-headed independent woman who don't need no man were going to have a happy successful marriage? Of course they got separated and their son turned to the dark side. It makes complete sense. Why is everyone so biased towards hating something new?
I agree. It's like poetry, you know, they rhyme.
>>63829119
>What did the rebellion achieve?
That is like saying episode V shits on episode IV.
Wtf? Are you retarded?
>>63829413
>That is like saying episode V shits on episode IV.
>Are you retarded?
Well you definitely are
>>63828362
Wait. You mis-spelled star wars to bypass our filters, because you think what you have to say is that important?
>>63829119
You're exaggerating. The galactic conflict of the original movies just sets the stage for the characters. It never amounted to much else.
>>63829297
> Because there needs to be conflict. Killing the Emperor and destroying the Death Star was only the turning tide, but the millions of followers of the Empire weren't all on that second Death Star, just like they weren't all on the first.
They didn't just destroy the death star but the emperor as well. That was the end of the empire. Without the death star the empire couldn't get all the systems to join it and without the emperor they would never recover. Thats why everyone was celebrating.
> Luke still had a long way to go before he brought balance to the force and that's why he started building a new generation of Jedi.
Balance was brought to the force because the last of the sith were defeated. There was no need for there to be another red light saber wielding sith like bad guy again.
> Did you really think that Solo, the womanizer James Bond character and Leia, the hard-headed independent woman who don't need no man were going to have a happy successful marriage?
Yes they should have had a successful marriage and they should have had more children then just the one that was a disappointment.
> It makes complete sense
No it makes no sense. Why did Luke Skywalker let this happen? Why did he run off right when it did? Thats not what the Luke Skywalker from the original trilogy would do.
> Why is everyone so biased towards hating something new?
I'm not biased against hating something new. I don't see any need for sequels to return of the jedi because it was a perfect ending.
>>63828362
It's JUST what I expected, this rehash is nothing but a glib facsimile.
If Star Wars was all I had access to as a child in terms of sci-fi I probably would become one of those crazy fanboys, but thankfully I had access to anime from very early on in my youth years that my mental balance is very stable.
Seriously, if you have watched Akira, you'd realize just how sophisticated anime is and it blows away anything Star Wars would have to offer.
A lot of people mention Ghost In The Shell, which has just enough of sexuality in the mix to draw in the western audience I suppose but I must say that Ghost In The Shell is not even in my top 10 anime, not even close, that's just how deep the world of anime is.
Some anime is so disturbingly mature like Fractale that I wish it would challenge the system and submit it as a Drama category in the Oscars just to bitchslap the snotty Academy.
It's not just the level of maturity and sophistication anime has, it's also quite original, entertaining, and visually fantastic. I would regard anime as the highest form of cinema art-form.
But hey, me preaching about anime won't do you any good, you gotta go out and see it for yourself just how much you are missing.
The recent one I would recommend to check out is Sword Art Online which is light and easy to get into anime for the first time yet appreciate it as much, but if you want the heavy stuff right off the line check out Guilty Crown in which the plot is so complex and twisted that you'll need extra oxygen pumped into your brain in order to comprehend everything, and if you want amazing visuals and a gripping drama that also has awesome mecha battles Aldnoah.Zero is the shit.
Seriously, if you know anime like I do, Star Wars looks like it's something for little kids.
>>63829637
>No it makes no sense. Why did Luke Skywalker let this happen? Why did he run off right when it did? Thats not what the Luke Skywalker from the original trilogy would do
I think they were trying to give the impression that he was running from something and trying to find some way to defend himself and everyone else.
>>63829637
>I don't see any need for sequels to return of the jedi because it was a perfect ending.
Basically this. I think TFA should have taken place at least 100-150 years after RotJ
>>63829606
No, I misspelled it because I'm a cheeky lil' cunt.
>>63829637
>They didn't just destroy the death star but the emperor as well. That was the end of the empire. Without the death star the empire couldn't get all the systems to join it and without the emperor they would never recover. Thats why everyone was celebrating.
I remember that by the end of episode VI, I was thinking "wait, so they kill the emperor and suddenly everything is alright? What happens to the rest of them? Do they magically dissappear?" and it turns out they don't. The Galactic Empire evolves into the First Order after the death of the Emperor and the destruction of the second Death Star. They still don't "control" anything, but are actively trying to achieve that with their fascist ideals. Sure, if these seques never existed, one could think the Rebels assembled into a New Republic and eliminated all the remnants of the Empire. But that is only one of the possible outcomes. Turns out it isn't what happened, the Empire still resists the New Republic and they're still trying to holocaust the shit out of everyone.
>Balance was brought to the force because the last of the sith were defeated. There was no need for there to be another red light saber wielding sith like bad guy again.
Sure, yes, absolutely. But with only one Jedi left in the galaxy, what was Luke supposed to do? Live out the rest of his days as a normal war hero and not teach anyone else about making shit fly with your mind? He HAD to share his knowledge, and build a new Jedi academy, it was his duty as a Jedi Knight, otherwise he would've shat on everything Yoda and Obi had taught him. And again, as long as there are Jedis, there will always be edgy faglords trying to fuck shit up.
>>63829921
> I think they were trying to give the impression that he was running from something and trying to find some way to defend himself and everyone else.
Luke skywalker running? From what? He was the most powerful jedi in the galaxy. Are you going to tell me that is not contrived?
Look, the ending to return of the jedi was brilliant. As far as I'm concerned the story ended there. If they wanted to make a sequel I'd accept it would have to be an excellent continuation not a soulless rehash of episode four that makes the characters live awful lives.
>>63829119
theres now a galactic senate which presumably has a larger/stronger army. Its a more balanced struggle between competing factions. The good guys were 2 for 2 in battles this time.
>>63829999
>But that is only one of the possible outcomes
Sure, but this possible outcome the question is is this a good enough outcome to be a legitimate sequel to return of the jedi? Consider that this movie is essentially just a rehash of a new hope and there is even a new death star like object even though the last two were destroyed. Reusing the death star is really repetitive.
> And again, as long as there are Jedis, there will always be edgy faglords trying to fuck shit up.
There are two things here (1) there doesn't need to be an edgy faglord who commits patricide because that is an unbelievably epic fuckup (2) Luke doesn't need to run away when there is a problem.
>>63830139
>Consider that this movie is essentially just a rehash of a new hope
This is exactly what I'm trying to argue here. It's not a rehash of A New Hope. It's CYCLICAL. It's supposed to follow a structure. A young child discovering his affinity with the Force (Anakin/Luke/Rey). An incredibly fascistic threat to the galaxy (The Separatists/The Galactic Empire/The First Order). An iconic bad guy who dresses in black and wields a red lightsaber (Darth Maul/Darth Vader/Kylo Ren). An important character dying (Qui-Gon Jin/Obi-Wan Kenobi/Han Solo). These are all similitudes that are absoolutely intentional. This does not make it a rehash. The cyclical aspec is imbued within the personality of the Star Wars films. While there are some moments that are supposed to make you go "holy shit that thing from the first movie", episode VII has its own charisma, different from all the others.
(1)You're right. But the fact that there is also makes complete sense and is not an "epic fuckup". (2)You're right. But he did. Which shows the human nature of Luke. The fact that by the end of Return of the Jedi he was more mature that in the other movies, he was still a child. Why did Yoda run to exile after not being able to defeat Sidious? Does that mean Yoda is also a coward? I mean, he was one of the oldest Jedi masters but after Vader and the clones killed every other jedi in the galaxy, he decided it would be best to hang the gloves until the time was right. Same with Obi going to Tatooine to look after Luke. What should Luke have done? Old and tired, face the First Order by himself? Or do you think that he, being a Jedi, just like Yoda, just like Obi-Wan, didn't foresee that a new apprentice would come and that when she came it would be his duty to train her so that she can fight evil like he did when he was young? And, whoops, there she is, she found her master, just like Luke found Yoda in Dagobah.
>>63830091
The problem is that movie doesn't really tell much about geopolitical climate. New Republic MAY be the most powerful faction and MAY have the biggest fleet, but they never really tell us about it. Instead Republic is just kinda thrown in the movie just to be owned by the First Order. Order destroys the Hosnian system with a galactic senate and nobody gives a fuck about it.
>>63829840
>I would regard anime as the highest form of cinema art-form.
>>63830000
>Luke skywalker running? From what? He was the most powerful jedi in the galaxy. Are you going to tell me that is not contrived?
There's another Sith Lord, and he's likely the most wanted man with anyone affiliated with the Empire. Luke's strong, but a lone Jedi isn't a one man army and could still be overwhelmed.
Yes it's contrived, but so was everything after A New Hope too.
>>63830544
>It's CYCLICAL. It's supposed to follow a structure.
>It's like poetry then?
>>63830568
This. I'm trying to defend the movie from run-of-the-mill criticism. This is good criticism. An entire system containing the New Republic Fleet and a new galactic senate is obliterated and, while the scene is visually spectacular with all the pretty explosions and whatnot, we're supposed to give a shit about it? The movie actually just goes "welp, they ded, that's that, let's keep going". There are no consequences, nothing, nada. They managed to destroy a bunch of planets and murder billions upon billions of living beings and then it's discarded. You forget it the instant it happens. That is a huge flaw with this film.
>>63830749
Get out of my thread, George.
>>63830744
Also being the most powerful Jedi doesnt say much when there were barely any left for him to top.
>>63828362
They've done death stars to death and it's time to stop using that shit.
>>63830544
> This is exactly what I'm trying to argue here. It's not a rehash of A New Hope.
For all intents and purposes it is a rehash of A New Hope though. For example, there is a new death star like object that the movie revolves around them defeating. There is a droid with vital information. There is a desert planet just like Tatooine. The empire is renamed to a new order but for all intents and purposes it is the same and the resistance still is similar to the rebellion. Name changes don't actually make it not a rehash.
> It's CYCLICAL. It's supposed to follow a structure. A young child discovering his affinity with the Force (Anakin/Luke/Rey). An incredibly fascistic threat to the galaxy (The Separatists/The Galactic Empire/The First Order). An iconic bad guy who dresses in black and wields a red lightsaber (Darth Maul/Darth Vader/Kylo Ren). An important character dying (Qui-Gon Jin/Obi-Wan Kenobi/Han Solo).
I don't think it should be cyclical as I mentioned. It may as well have ended after return of the jedi. At the very least there shouldn't have been any red light saber weilding badguys after the sith were destroyed!
> Why did Yoda run to exile after not being able to defeat Sidious? Does that mean Yoda is also a coward?
Yoda was never a member of the rebellion but Luke was. He didn't abandon anything because he never joined the rebellion. He seemed to be someone who is out of it, for example, he is an alien and we never see his family. Luke has a family at stake which makes it incredibly stupid for him to run. It doesn't fit his character.
> What should Luke have done? Old and tired, face the First Order by himself?
Yes he should have. He could still be as powerful as count dooku at his age. He should have stayed around as long as he had family at stake. The Luke in empire strikes back didn't run when his friends where in danger but rather he went to Bespin to save them. I wanted to see that Luke from empire strikes back not this one.
>>63828876
>this is a good Star Wars film, well thought out and well produced, a step up from the prequels and it lives up to the hype.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
is this what you tell yourself every day to prevent you from committing suicide?
>>63830749
It's pottery, then.
Continued:
At the very least there shouldn't have been any red light saber weilding badguys after the sith were destroyed!
One thing they could have done instead is to have an antagonist who uses his intelligence rather then the force like the sith used to. And this antagonist could say use some means of disabling force powers to equal the playing field with force sensitives rather then using the force himself. This is one way they could have gone instead of rehashing the sith which were supposed to be destroyed. I think they could have done a lot better.
>>63828362
That's not even the most common criticism on here
lurk more
>the whole saga is cyclical
You're full of shit. TFA doesn't resemble Episode 1 the way it resembles ANH.
>>63831054
>>63831141
I guess we should agree to dissagree. I think I understand your point, and I absolutely respect it. I still think this was a very good addition to the saga, despite all its flaws.
>>63828716
This guy gets it.
>>63828362
The “Luke, I am your father” revelation resonated because it expressed how George Lucas, like his movie-brat peers (Coppola, Bogdanovich, Scorsese, Spielberg, De Palma) struggled with Sixties generational ambivalence. A father–son antagonism resounds through all their films as a reflection of Vietnam-era student protests and the privilege of those draft-dodging filmmaker progeny. Even Lucas, in his escapist outer-space mode, iterated the era’s unease, culminating in Luke’s fear and symbolic castration. It’s seldom realized that the movie brats’ films are essentially conservative, politically speaking. Yet, in the new millennium, filmgoers’ superficial political awareness makes them nostalgic for Star Wars to maintain the gullibility of their youth. Longing for innocence is all that the insipidness of the latest sequel, The Force Awakens, signifies. When director J. J. Abrams re-stages that primal moment, he does it for brand recognition, but so unimaginatively that it feels hackneyed. Even though it’s meant to be painful for rabid Star Wars fanatics, it lacks mythological significance. Star Wars fans are not required to think metaphorically, so any Oedipal meaning is lost (although there is something of millennial ingratitude in the new filial confrontation), just as the original scene’s impact was ignored in subsequent sequels.
>>63829297
>Because there needs to be conflict.
Not really. The story was over. Return of the Jedi didn't really leave a whole lot of relevant loose ends. There didn't need to be conflict. There needed to be conflict for a new movie trilogy. That's all.
I'm not criticizing the plot of VII, mind. Most of what it does feels fairly natural save for the heavy-handed ANH retreading. But these sequels were far from necessary.
>>63829840
>Akira anime
what a massive pleb, that (beautiful looking) adaptation barely scratches the surface of the masterpiece that is Akira.
>>63831424
The new characters in The Force Awakens are banal. John Boyega’s black superhero, Finn, updates and restyles Han Solo’s jockish heroism — a cultural evolution that evokes Obama (“I was taken from a family I’ll never know”) for global commercialism. Boyega is appealing-enough to surpass the series’ previous racial tokens, Billy Dee Williams and Samuel L. Jackson, but he is subordinate to the new gallantry of Daisy Ridley’s Rey, who embodies the female empowerment denied to Princess (now General) Leia. Rey “leans in” when she grips the Skywalker light saber, so that feminists can rejoice at the Disney Corporation’s calculated political correctness (although Rey’s competence with weaponry contradicts liberals’ convenient attitudes toward gun control.) RELATED: Star Wars: Revenge of the Social-Justice Warriors By now we all should know that there’s nothing of adult interest in Star Wars. Even when it premiered back in 1977, the sci-fi premise and comic-book characters were eclipsed artistically by the visionary spirituality of Close Encounters of the Third Kind. Yet the continued prominence of Star Wars signifies something that is politically serious, if not dreadful: The great renaissance of American filmmaking during the 1970s and its regeneration of film culture (when movies were seen as a vital means of approaching and understanding contemporary experience) were doomed by Star Wars’ pseudo-imaginative, non-campy rehash of escapist junk. Now, the rebooted, politically empty The Force Awakens suggests a boot stuck in the rear of film culture’s flabby remains.
>>63831453
The Force Awakens is a bread-and-circuses carnival that is intended to keep millennial audiences docile. Maybe that explains the film’s unavoidable sell and both the media’s and the public’s desperate genuflection. Love of Star Wars is not love of cinema, just consumerist habit. The Star Wars Generation — that unfortunate rabble primed to see these films at the precise moment they were becoming culturally responsive — are not necessarily the audience the movie brats deserved; they’re spawn of Baby Boomer affluence and narcissism. Star Wars turned their natural curiosity and wonder into self-satisfaction, artificially dependent on media and merchandising (a tragedy also evident in Apple and Pixar evangelism). TV-show runner J. J. Abrams brings his game-changing banality to the Star Wars franchise. He follows the template as originated by Lucas and appeals to adolescent thralldom, keeping the brand recognizable. The Force Awakens is paced better than Star Wars’ other dismal episodes, yet it’s even more impersonal. There’s no visual or spiritual excitement, as there was even in a cynical sci-fi product like Ridley Scott’s Prometheus. Abrams is making product to salute the cultural and economic status quo. With Star Wars, product has not only taken the place of art; it has replaced myth.
>>63829297
Because this is 4chan and we have to be contrarian.
>>63828362
>Also, Daisy Ridley is qt.
As long as she isn't smiling.
>>63831579
That's when she reaches maximum cuteness anon desu
maybe the precuels (Ep I, II, III) were cyclical but why should this new trilogy be cycllical too? the sequels were anything but a good example to follow.
>>63828362
It's a shit rehash.
Go watch The Hateful 8
>>63829840
Again with the shitty copypoosta
>>63830091
Not any more there's fucking not, they got starnuked. bye bye interesting cold war setting, hello OT take 2
>>63829329
>>63830749
>>63831128
It can't be poetry if it's the exact same thing. That's not how rhymes work.
>>63831424
>>63831453
>>63831491
Stop regurgitating other people's opinions.
