How the hell does this guy land a hit on a force-user?And how the hell does a girl that just discover force literally few hours earlier best a dark-side user that's trained from childhood?And isn't the entire plot a rehash of IV? This is obviously Disney's effort to simply up the merchandise sales with a safe bet; they know where the $$$ is at.
>>63806469
>How the hell does this guy land a hit on a force-user?
Swing a bat around enough you're bound to graze something.
>And how the hell does a girl that just discover force literally few hours earlier best a dark-side user that's trained from childhood?
Dark Side user can't even shoot lightning out of his hands yet. All he has is choke and push.
>And isn't the entire plot a rehash of IV? This is obviously Disney's effort to simply up the merchandise sales with a safe bet; they know where the $$$ is at.
Of course it is.
>>63806469
rey is a mary sue and finn has plot armor
any other explanation is from tumblr fanboys who will try to defend rey
They gave enough plot for it, at least for me, to not be that big of a problem
Hit pretty hard in his rib area and he may still have had that faltering will to the dark side even after killing his father. Rey was more determined in accepting the force and using it than Ren was because he was trained in the light and just converted
>>63806561
You do realize force-users have limited prescience hence their ability to deflect blast shots?
Non-force users should literally have no chance to be able to graze one in a saber duel.
>>63806469
>How the hell does this guy land a hit on a force-user?
Probably has something to do with him getting a bowcaster shot and 3 blaster rounds put into him, and that Kylo is completely unstable and has no self control when angry and doesn't mind his surroundings.
>>63806469
Here's a better question, have you ever had an original thought before?
Because while the original series depicted the Force as a mystical aspect of nature and the prequels treated it as a well-known fact of life that only certain people could utilize, the sequels treat it as a capeshit superpower that teenagers can just start shooting laser beams without any training.
It is the same as IV, that's the fucking point. Rey doesn't do anything as ridiculous as Luke does in IV with his fresh force powers.
>>63806721
Just walked out the theater, all my thoughts are original.
>>63806767
She learns force grab, mind tricks and sword skills in mere seconds without training...
>>63806880
And Luke blows up the death star with one shot. The force is strong with them or something.
>>63806761
>The Force mirrors the current generation autism.
Bravo JJ
B
R
A
V
O
>>63806469
also, this is the same guy who got his ass handed to him earlier by an average stormtrooper.
>>63806767
What? Luke uses the Force to know when to block a training droid bolts, and when to fire his Proton Torpedos so they'd hit. Both are essentially the same power, the ability to "feel' the right timing to act.
Rey reads Kylo's mind, overpowers Kylo, Mind Tricks a Stormtrooper, and Force grabs the lightsaber (overcoming Kylo's grab in the first place). She uses no less than three different force powers and didn't even have Ben's crash course while they flew to Alderaan.
>>63806469
it annoys me how many Star Wars fans don't understand what the Force is. 'Force user', 'force sensitive'. If you use these phrases I just assume you're an idiot who doesn't listen or pay attention during movies, even when they're ones you've watched multiple times.
>>63806761
>Kylo Ren - a.k.a. edgelord shitter buttblasted that he isn't as good as Vader - makes three overt shows of Vader+ tier Force power
>Rey's mysterious hypercompetence applies to Force sensitivity, and she goes from shocked and overwhelmed to counter-mindraping and giving compulsive verbal commands in about 60 seconds
>>63806936
He destroys the Death Star with a well placed shot in its only weakness. That was the whole objective of the assault.
Fuck I love how we've just decided Rey is a Mary Sue and are going to use that term and only that term to describe her character. Jesus.
Luke was a Marty Stu, are we just pretending he wasn't?
Do you know how many protagonists AREN'T Mary/Marty Sue/Stus? It ain't fucking much.
This is of course unless you actually want to use Mary Sue as it was originally intended - in such a case where Rey is absolutely nothing like a Mary Sue.
Chewie shot him with his gun in rage that he killed Han. I'm surprised he didn't shoot him in the head. He was bleeding out of his side, of course anyone with a lightsaber could probably get a hit in.
>>63806469
Bad Writing, son.
Plain and simple.
Do not let these brainwashed shills tell you any different.
>>63806561
>Swing a bat around enough you're bound to graze something.
Not if you're against someone who can use the force and literally force hold or choke or whatever. Especially if they're granted lightning fast reflexes due to the force and have been trained in lightsaber combat.
>>63806947
I just realized that JJ Abrams combined Twilight with ANH and we got the force awakens.
>>63807101
Luke traveled to a lot of distant planets for years searching for lost knowledge of the Jedi in order to develop all his abilities. Rey learned them because fuck everyone.
>>63806469
>How the hell does this guy land a hit on a force-user?
One of the main points with Kylo is how much of an untrained pussy put into a place of power he is.
He wasn't focused, he was just raging out on the poor nig.
>And how the hell does a girl that just discover force literally few hours earlier best a dark-side user that's trained from childhood?
Same point as before + Kylo was a bit injured + Rey can literally do no wrong
>And isn't the entire plot a rehash of IV? This is obviously Disney's effort to simply up the merchandise sales with a safe bet; they know where the $$$ is at.
Yep, as good as this movie is, it's still pretty bland and safe as fuck.
They needed a shot of Finn using the lightsaber for merchandising and so they would have shots of him to use for advertising so people would think he was going to be the Jedi character.
Rey is a Mary-Sue
The better question is, how the hell did this movie hit #20 on IMDB?
Why the fuck does nobody remember that Ren got shot before this scene?
>>63807281
Because reddit and sjw
>>63807101
Luke was shit at everything in ANH. He needed Obi Wan to spend a ton of time to help him learn how to wield a light saber and harness the force, and he needed Yoda to help him complete it. Even after a lot of training, he was beaten by the big antagonist in the second film, and barely won in the third film.
>>63807235
He did all that before ANH?
>>63807235
Luke in TFA, sure. In ANH he blows up the Death Star with no targeting system and pulls his lightsaber to himself on Hoth exactly the same as Rey did it in TFA.
This is way before Luke learns anything and even before he reaches Dagobah.
His training was literally limited to deflecting two blaster bolts from that droid on the Falcon.
>>63807296
literally a video game
>>63807251
>One of the main points with Kylo is how much of an untrained pussy put into a place of power he is.
The guy froze a blaster shot mid air and is able to mind extract intel from unwilling victims.
He might be unstable but is far from incompetent.
>>63807281
2014's Godzilla hit number 1. Everyone knows movies on the top 250 don't count until at least a year after release.
>>63807317
Sure, except blowing up the Death Star without using his computer.
>>63806686
>>And how the hell does a girl that just discover force literally few hours earlier best a dark-side user that's trained from childhood?
Read between the lines. This isn't the first time they met. Rey was a member of Luke's training school. When the Knights of Ren attacked, she was sent to Jakku. She's been taught the force before
>>63807328
He did it after. The only thing he did during ANH was learn how to sense things. He was a force sensitive human. He learned from Obi Wan how to turn off his senses and see through the force. That's the first thing padawans learn. Not force grab. Not mind tricks. Not sword mastery.
>>63806469
>How the hell does this guy land a hit on a force-user?
This movie doesn't use prequel style superhuman lightsaber fights, and Kylo wanted to seduce Rey to the dark side with a show of force after Snoke's order, not to mention he was too proud and too stupid to just force push Finn out of the way and get this done with.
>And how the hell does a girl that just discover force literally few hours earlier best a dark-side user that's trained from childhood?
He wasn't, the movie specifically talks about how Luke was the last Jedi and never trained him, and he might not even have met Snoke face to face.
>And isn't the entire plot a rehash of IV? This is obviously Disney's effort to simply up the merchandise sales with a safe bet; they know where the $$$ is at.
Yes, obviously, this is Star Wars, it's always been about the money you dense cunt.
>Go watch force awakens today
>50 minute advertisements
>German crowd
>They laugh at cheap advertisements
>Some guy opens a bottle of beer and stinks up the place right next to me
>Say "Ren kills Solo"
That satisfaction man
>>63807317
Yeah the beginning of Jedi when Luke strolls through Jabba's Palace force-choking and mind tricking Jabba's mooks was supposed to be the "oh shit, he's gotten super powerful since Empire" moment that was awesome to watch the first time. Compare how Luke is during that scene to his duel with Vader in Empire where Vader is basically just fucking around with Luke.
Rey just being able to use the mind trick without any training (seen or implied, as with Luke in Jedi) is fucking stupid
I've seen a lot of professional memers getting worried over the past few days. Being in this line of work is pretty hard, you're always relying hip new material to come out of movies and tv shows. And not just any material will do, a great memer has the ability to take a quote or scene that anyone else would overlook, and turn it into the dankest meme of the year.
But what separates your average [s4s] level amateur from, say, an /sp/ caliber memester is not the ability to change and mold physical phenomena, but the ability to create memes out of the ether. The metaphysical and the fans' reactions.
That's what we have here. Some of the best memers on all the chan have gotten together and created THE signature meme of The Force Awakens:
>le kylo gets beat by rey XDDDD
>>63807333
Luke only pulls the lightsaber in Empire and almost fails to do it, go back to Reddit.
>>63806773
>just hypnotized by Jews for two hours
>all my thoughts are original
>>63807394
Are you for real?
The girl was a toddler when she got left on Jakku.
And if you actually watched the movie, she didn't even know she had the force.
>>63807235
This.
>>63806469
How the hell does a Sith Lord not see his apprentice turning on him and throwing him down a reactor shaft?
The force doesn't mean invincibility. Watch the prequels if that's what you want.
>>63807333
He learned force grab during the whole desert jewel adventure, after a lot of training. That's between ANH and ESB. It wasn't out of thin air.
>>63807420
>He wasn't, the movie specifically talks about how Luke was the last Jedi and never trained him, and he might not even have met Snoke face to face.
Oh, so he just learns how to freeze blast-bolts mid-air and extracting info from unwilling minds by himself?
What's the point of Jedi/Sith having masters then. Every force-sensitives is obviously capable of teaching themselves top level techniques cause fuck all.
>>63807509
>The girl was a toddler
So were the younglings.
>>63807333
Please, Luke only blocked a few shots from a training droid and got a hit on the Death Star after spending time with Obi Wan.
Rey is doing Jedi mind tricks and all that merely with just hearing of the force?
>>63807639
Because he's strong in the force like Rey, just sorta the shits and untrained at it, just like Rey. You do know he's supposed to be Rey's archnemesis right.
>>63807656
And their jedi powers are not enough to save them clones.
>>63807349
This is a good point. They introduce Ren as this Vader-like badass that can fucking freeze light in place, but then follow it up with him being an angsty pussy teenager
>>63807691
from clones*
>>63807680
Maybe the Force possessed her in a special way.
>>63807686
What i know is the guy is obviously trained in the dark-side by Snoke or other seasoned dark-side users.
>>63807193
>reflexes
dude they have prescience, they know how he is going to attack
>>63807731
It's because she's a strong, liberated womyn.
>>63807720
>I don't like Mary Sues
>I don't like flawed characters
>>63807749
Okay, so you're too slow to follow a dumb popcorn movie like Star Wars.
>>63807580
>desert jewel adventure
You've lost me. Was that EU?
A, it ain't canon, and B, fuck the EU. I'm only talking movies.
>>63807767
>I don't know what inconsistency is
I don't get the hate for Dindu's lightsaber skills. Feels equivalent to what you or I could pull off. He gets a hit or two in there by sheer luck but is ultimately btfo at every turn
As for Rey, she had been channeling the force more and more over the last few days, trying to hush it away but it kept growing within her (read: awakening) and by the time she fought Kylo, she embraced it. She didn't destroy him, she held her weight.
Even if that doesn't satisfy you, Kylo is not the end all be all Sith lord. He still has training to do. He still has emotions to tame and a light side to silence. He is not some unstoppable force so it's not unreasonable to think Rey could channel a good fight.
>>63807772
Nah, you just sounded too much like a self-deluded shill.
>>63807829
You don't.
>>63807767
>I don't like flawed characters
Please, it's not even that, introducing a highly competent powerful character and have him be a rage-fulled angsty teenager is inconsistent.
They should have just played down his introduction a bit.
>>63806469
The way Rey is discovering the force is how I imagined Anakin would before the prequels were made.
Maybe Rey will end in tragedy like Vader, and Luke will die a failure?
>>63807803
Whatever dude, luke obviously has practice time before the Hoth battle, unlike the womyn.
For those saying Luke was a Mary Sue, I say not really. A Mary Sue is a character with no character flaws. And no, being abandoned on Jakku as a kid isn't a character flaw. Rey has no discernible weaknesses. In fact, the only real motivation she has is "she has to go back to Jakku" and even then, she loses that motivation half way through the movie. What are her dreams? What is her motivation? Why is she there?
With Luke, his dreams are clearly leaving. There's that famous shot of him gazing into the two golden suns, after he has been denied to leave the farm. Luke sucks as a Jedi. He's constantly failing because he's afraid to become something more than just a humdrum farmer. He watches his own mentor die in front of him because he was too scared to save him. Then of course we see him overcome his fears with Yoda, and even then he is still scared, asking Yoda "is the dark side really stronger?" Even during his final battle, we see Luke slowly slip into the Dark Side
But Rey? She's already a ruined character. She's been over exposed to us. Rey's character can't have the triumphant rise to glory.
In Ancient Greece, they divided stories between Tragedies (the hero starts out strong and becomes week) and Comedies (the opposite of tragedy) Star Wars was originally a comedy
But now? It has no where to go in the next two movies. We've already seen that Rey apparently doesn't even need training because she's already so strong
>>63807855
Should they have portrayed Vader as a stumbling crying bleeding heart fool to make his old dad reveal less dramatic?
>>63807445
And thus the 4th reich was born
>>63807803
Lucas seems to like making hunge gaps between movies where characters get some training, see the gap between TPM and AotC and AotC and RotS, left to be explained by SW:TCW
The only prombem is he didn't make a TV show to explain what happens between the OT movies
>>63807855
You obviously don't know any teenagers, because they can be both intelligent/skilled and emotionally unstable at the same time.
Or did you want 2D characters?
>>63807869
Kylo and her obviously swap sides by the end of the trilogy. She is full of hate, fear and anger while Kylo is filled with regret and remorse.
>>63807445
Did you report him to your imam?
>>63807834
>Feels equivalent to what you or I could pull off.
Put some average guy in the ring with Tyson in his prime and that's how the lightsaber duel should have gone down.
Kylo would have just force choked Finn to death or snapped his neck if the script wasn't so contrived.
Becausechewie shot that little dickhead before he fought Finn, so he was in pain, pissed off, and unfocused.
>>63807884
Rey was waiting for her family to return. She was afraid they would come for her while she was off-world. (Hence the obsessive tally marks.)
In the end she found her father.
What a fucking crap of movie. A shitty caporal has permision to put out all the shields of the fucking ULTRANIGGER9000DEATHSTAR.
Come on, even my shitty proyect in unity has better security
>>63807991
But Kylo fought like cocky mode Roy Jones, where you could sneak a good one in by his own hubris.
>>63808005
How can we get motivated into that? We've never even seen her family. We saw one scene with her being lonely and eating. That's it.
I can't be the only one who just didn't care if Rey found her parents
Also, we don't know Luke and Rey's relationship
>>63807943
Is the trilogy set in stone or was the rest of the story left to the (different) directors of ep 8 and 9?
>>63807869
>tfw TFA is the retcon of Episode I that we deserve
>>63807991
>Tyson in his prime
And what made you think Ben Solo is in his prime? Even his master made it obvious that he was a rookie.
>>63808064
i think kasden and jj came up with a basic plot outline that the writers will have to follow. i'm sure theres plenty of room for them to do their own thing
>>63807991
Except Kylo is nowhere near Tyson in his prime
>>63808155
Can Tyson stop blaster bolts in mid air? Didn't think so faggot
>>63808117
>And what made you think Ben Solo is in his prime?
That's just the disparity between force users and non-force users. If you're not trained to kill Jedi, you'll get your shit pushed in 100% of the time.
>>63807803
Let's discard all the lore then.
It's obvious that some time passed between ANH and ESB. That was training time for Luke, someone who was focused in being a Jedi, just like his father. Rey did all of that in seconds without any kind of guidance, unless Luke.
>>63807991
But Finn is not an average guy. He's a stormtrooper and we do know they have some sort of saber-like fight training.
>>63808061
She also told BB-8 she expects them to return, apparently at any time. That's her motivation for wanting to go back.
>>63808192
Obviously not, nice headcanon tho, looking foward to your fanfic.
Is anyone in this thread actually talking about the movie, like, reasonably? Like, "Here are some things I liked" and "Here are some things I didn't like" and "On the whole I liked/didn't like the movie because"? I mean, without shitflinging and overreaction (if the mainstream media goes overboard in enthusiasm, we seem to go the other way). If not, is there a thread like that around?
>>63808210
>dome sort of saber like fight training
Haven't seen the movie, is this true?
Can we talk about BB8 and names for a second? None of us a few months ago predicted that Finn was actually FN whatever and was just a "clone" type of thing.
BB8 is literally Be Bait.
Either:
1. Luke Skywalker can see through the camera on BB8's head. My personal theory. So Luke can keep up with the Resistance.
2. BB8 is like the One Ring in LOTR. It wants to be found. Did anyone else notice how wherever BB8 went, the First Order followed? Kind seems sketchy...he's "the bait" controlled by Snoke, of course. Also, he tried to kill Han Solo and Chewwie with the gas
>>63808248
Then get outta the thread idiot.
I assumed when kylo had her on the edge of that cliff and told her about teaching her and they did that weird scene were his eyes went all glassy she was probing his mind and learning about force technique
>>63808248
A stormtrooper fights Finn with a sort of lightsaber battle axe/nunchuck type thing. Troopers are trained in hand to hand combat, clearly.
>>63806686
Yeah, they spent the whole movie building up the bowcaster as massively powerful. Ren was on his last legs during the final fights.
>>63808328
Oh you mean the riot trooper traitor guy, he must be part of a specialized unit, I doubt every single stormtrooper has training and is issued a lightsaber-resistant riot control stick as part of their normal kit
>>63808191
Oh i thought you were making an analogy, but i see now you're literally comparing kylo to mike tyson the boxer. You're retarded
>>63808248
Stormtroopers are not clones anymore. They're children kidnapped at birth and trained since then. There's even a line when someone says "Should we start doing clones again?" And "I don't understand, he passed all of his conformitity test!"
>>63807680
You make it sound like taking out the Death Star wasn't a compatibly Sue-ish feat.
But really, can't you put Ren's getting pushed back down to the wound from the bowcaster?
>>63807884
This is the best post on /tv/ against the
>the originals were just as bad
argument.
>>63807455
>Rey just being able to use the mind trick without any training (seen or implied, as with Luke in Jedi) is fucking stupid
The implication is there that she's had training but had her memory altered.
>>63808426
Why so angry, I was just funposting and I'm not even the guy you were talking to
>>63807803
Not EU, one of the new canon novels.
Did anyone else who tried to avoid learning anything about the movie in advance think Snoke was supposed to be some kind of giant? I was actually really impressed with such a novel idea, but then nope, he was just a hologram. I wish they could've been more consistent with either keeping the late 70's scifi look to all the computers and tech stuff instead of the mishmash we got.
>>63808545
She was a fucking toddler when she was abandoned.
>>63808545
You don't train younglings to mindtrick people
You know, there's this TCW (therefore canon) episode(s) about pirates taking over a ship of younglings who just built their lightsabers, and they're utterly worthless, having to rely on Ashoka to defend them from people armed with blasters
>>63807720
Seemed like a great example of what using the Dark Side really amounts to. Yoda said in Empire that it's not stronger, just an easier and quicker path to power. Kylo is essentially a well trained Padawan who, through the Dark Side, can achieve some much greater feats but he's shit at controlling it.
>>63806469
She's a Mary Sue, I would of preferred she was similar to Luke - an ordinary individual thrown into extraordinary events, and develops throughout the narrative. You know? Like the Monomyth template.
>>63806761
But that's not really true, Luke did the same thing in the original, blowing up the Death Star without the computer.
And it's pretty obvious she's Luke's daughter, so of course her Force potential is probably high as hell. "The Force is strong in my family" and all that.
>>63808545
There is no such implication, and you're spouting nonsense to defend something stupid.
>>63808414
Not training with that specific weapon, but regular hand to hand would likely be standard training right?
>>63808447
>Stormtroopers are not clones anymore.
They weren't clones in the OT either.
>>63808737
after she touched the lightsaber in maz cuntas castle she had weird flashbacks of luke and r2 and a bunch of other shit and that is when all her force abilities start showing up it definitely seemed like she had repressed and altered memories to me
>>63807991
Remember you gotta shoot Tyson in the stomach first.
>>63808629
>I was actually really impressed with such a novel idea, but then nope, he was just a hologram. I wish they could've been more consistent with either keeping the late 70's scifi look to all the computers and tech stuff instead of the mishmash we got.
Did you completely forget about the giant hologram of the Emperor in Empire Strikes Back? Were there mouthbreathers thinking the Emperor was a giant back in the 80's?
>>63808733
Intuitive use of the force as a sense is not the same as performing mind tricks or force grab. Rey is a good pilot not only because her father and grandfather were good pilots too, it's because she can sense things before they happen. That's something a Jedi born with. The other skills are learned through training.
>>63807991
He still won while injured at least.
>>63808852
Nigga, force sensitive people can see the future and the past. That doesn't have anything to do with memories.
>>63808903
leia was heavily implied to be force sensitive but she couldn't see that all those cakes were gonna make her ass huge and scare people in the 3d shows
>>63808733
What if Darth Vader fucked some random bitch.
So she's Luke's niece or something.
>>63808903
Force trained people can see the future and past. Force sensitive people just seem preternaturally lucky because they notice things slightly before they happen. The fact that Rey had a vision like that implies strongly that she's had extensive training.
>>63808963
His thighs caught fire first. I'd imagine his testicles were slagged.
I'm just going to ask in this thread.
How were these guys and can someone greentext the scene for me?
finn vs. stormtrooper scene leaked:
http://a.uguu.se/exlugk.webm
>>63808963
Wouldn't that make her his half-sister?
>>63808979
As a toddler?
>>63809037
I unwaifued her so hard after this came out.
>>63809037
I'm glad this wasn't porn
>>63809034
Eaten by spacemonster
>>63809013
I'm sure they have advanced technology to make...sperm from skin cells.
>>63808723
She is similar to Luke was at the beginning of ANH though. They're both arrogant, whiny, and overconfident in their abilities. Due to the life that Rey has lived though, she's a lot more competent than Luke was.
People say that she's a Mary Sue, but really only in her abilities which again is explained by the life she lived and her abilities as a force user. Other than that though she's completely flawed.
>>63809054
Why do you assume she was on Jakku the whole time?
>>63806612
>mary sue
>mary sue
>mary sue
At this point I'm convinced no one on this board has any idea what this means
>>63808979
A 14 year old with barely any force training has visions of the future. Being trained means you"re better at interpreting those visions, not if you get them or not.
in the flashback that showed rey as a kid she looked about 8 or so luke was probably training the little bitch from when she could walk
>>63809123
Why do you assume she wasn't? She was left there and whoever left her there just told her to wait for her parents.
>>63809189
She definitely has a connection to Luke. There is this and the fact that Kylo pulled an image of an island in the middle of an ocean out of her mind. Where was Luke at the end of the movie? Yep.
>>63806469
They spent a million scenes showing Han and Chewie talking about how powerful the bowcaster is.
There's no way Han wouldn't know how powerful it was after being with Chewie for that long in-universe. Those scenes existed purely to lead into Chewie shooting Kylo Ren, which would make it make more sense why he would struggle in a fight versus amateurs.
Apparently Han winking at the audience repeatedly, and zooming into Ben's blood falling into white snow was just too subtle for a lot of audience members to realize just how injured he was. This is why movies are dumbing down further and further all the time... You can't expect the audience to pick up on shit, even when being smacked across the face
>>63809164
>A 14 year old with barely any force training has visions of the future
Do you mean Ezra? "Barely any" is a guess at best, we don't know exactly how much training he got from Kanan in between episodes.
1) shot by a bowcaster
2) just killed his father so is in emotional turmoil
3) resulted in a stab from Finn
4) Ex machinas/asspulls from Rey are only like that if you think the movie is a standalone. Remember this is a trilogy and those are obvious setups for reveals in the later films. How oblivious can you be?
How the fuck does THE SHIELD TO YOUR BEST WEAPON be deactivated by one person?
I would imagine it'd have multiple keys to be turned like nukes have, but no some shitty code can fuck up your whole planet of a weapon.
>>63809263
Really, the guy was beating on his own wounds to try and control himself better. He was seriously hurt and took all that to make even Rey fighting him as well as she was able to and he still almost beat her.
>>63809222
that's what fucked with me a bit the only way she could have stored memories of the island is if she was with him after he fucked off because of kylo going all darkside maybe after he went in exile she was with him and he sent her away or decided she wasn't safe i'm sure it is going to be explained next movie
>>63806469
Who cares faggot? You aren't even close to being the first person to make these complaints.
Quit parroting other people's posts and come up with something new omg I'm a sequel apologist fuck me.
>>63809325
if he hadn't stopped to do his retarded recruitment speech he would have wiped his ass with her
he was trying to turn her
No one in this thread seems to be acknowledging the idea that maybe Kylo Ren isn't THAT powerful. He read minds and he stopped a blaster in midair, but he's also young and hot-tempered. Remember, Siths use their anger but they still control it. Kylo is clearly not in control of his own emotions.
I'm also going to suggest this... he's not a sith. I think he's a darkside force-user. This "Knights of Ren" thing is something different. Something other than just a dark jedi.
>>63809261
Kid can barely force pull a tiny laptop.
The point is anyone who is force sensitive can have visions, but you need to train yourself to accurately interpret them.
Rey going super saiyan to win the fight was fine, what I didn't like was her using actual force techniques like grabbing the lightsabre and jedi mind tricks. I thought it was just going to be an amusing moment when she tried to do it and failed (and I got the feeling everyone else in the audience thought that too) but nope, she gets it on her second try. Dumb.
This is the first time I've seen a movie and thought that I could write a better script for it.
>>63809485
It's been emphasized from the beginning that the Knights of Ren aren't the Sith. They're something else, something that's arisen with Snoke's control.I still bet Snoke is Plagueis, though. However, he hasn't taken any of the Knights as his formal apprentice, so they don't have Sith teaching.
>>63808881
This. Boosting your natural senses as a human is one thing, giving you knowledge about some indepth hardcore jedi bullshit is another. Luke had trouble just moving small objects in Empire
>>63808979
>The fact that Rey had a vision like that implies strongly that she's had extensive training.
You just pulling excuses out of your ass. Every movie and novel ever said the same thing. Strong emotions trigger visions of the future, just like with Anakin when he saw padme dying. Also, you're a fag
>>63809097
>They're both arrogant, whiny, and overconfident in their abilities.
Yet another faggot. Luke was not arrogant, he was too focused on his friends which led him into a trap. If you faggots would actually bother watchin original movie and not draining your knowledge from random sources on the internet, maybe you wouldn't look that pathetic.
>>63809263
>1) shot by a bowcaster, 3) resulted in a stab from Finn
Didn't seem like he was affected by it that much, since he was toying with the guy while fighting him as if he didn't want him dead, he just wanted to show off like a retard. Didn't stop him doing some sick jedi spins and all sorts of moves.
>2) just killed his father so is in emotional turmoil
Would only empover his dark side and make him stronger.
>4) Ex machinas/asspulls from Rey are only like that if you think the movie is a standalone. Remember this is a trilogy and those are obvious setups for reveals in the later films. How oblivious can you be?
Every single movie in SW was self contained story that thematically always ended. Even the Empire where it was about Luke learning about the force and listening to his teachers.
This movie is a bullshit unfinished shit so they could sell you the rest of the story in sequels because they are too retarded to come up with anything interesting. Just like marvel movies, bunch of fucking shameless film DLC.
>>63809500
>Kid can barely force pull a tiny laptop.
And this further suggests Rey has had more training than Ezra.
>>63809485
I mean, I did suggest that somewhere up there. I feel like he's a Padawan who looks more powerful than he is because the Dark Side is a shortcut to power, but no promise of greater overall power.
>>63806469
Not just that. Its infuriating how they made her win WITHOUT A FUCKING SCRATCH!! Apparently black dudes are the only one qualified to that their ass handed to them. And the which chick goes in as the heroine and wins without a single graze against someone more experienced. How do you explain some shit like this? And dont even get me started on the forced love interest between of course, a black dude and white hoe. Love at fucking first sight eh? Fuck you disney, you ruined one of the greatest movie legacies with your forced political bullshit
HEY GUYS
IN THE OPENING MINUTES OF THE FILM ITS ESTABLISHED THAT KYLO REN CAN STOP BLASTER BOLTS MID-SHOT
WHY DOESN'T HE STOP THE BLAST COMING FROM CHEWIE'S CROSSBOW? DIDN'T FEEL LIKE IT?
>>63809386
That's what I'm thinking. She was very likely there with him. I'm sure it will be explained in the next movie when Luke gets to actually do something.
>>63809564
>>1) shot by a bowcaster, 3) resulted in a stab from Finn
>Didn't seem like he was affected by it that much,
Whole movie kept reinforcing that the Bowcaster if crazy strong. He obviously was severely injured by it.
V > III > VII > IV > VI > I > II
Prove me wrong!
> Stormtrooper, reluctant but drilled from infancy for combat under a harsh regime, must count for something.
> Ren seriously wounded by bowcaster repeatedly set up as OP for this scene.
> emotionally compromised by killing own father, was clearly somewhat conflicted.
> Obviously toying with Boyega. Could have dispatched quickly early.
> Danced around and took further wounds due to hubris, consistent with character.
> heavily handicapped for fight with Sue.
No problems here.
>>63809527
https://youtu.be/NVbBpKQQTtU?t=71
This is Luke in the wampa cave trying to force pull his lightsaber out of a loose pile of snow. He couldn't do it easily and one can assume that he has been doing Jedi duties for some time before this event - or at least longer than Rey.
Part of what made Star Wars work is seeing Luke grow from yokel farm boy with unreachable dreams into the savior of the galaxy. It didn't happen overnight and I doubt that this new trilogy is going to have some equivalent to the Dagobah scenes showing Rey in situations where she learns the basics and Jedi philosophy. That'd be too boring.
>>63809156
>Can fly a ship as good as its best pilot on her first try
>Literally a genius with technology because muh scavenger
>Can stand up to Luke's best pupil in force power
Do you know what Mary Sue means because this is probably the one instance it's used right on this site.
>>63809703
>prove me wrong
Search your feelings
>>63809640
Because he just killed his dad. And Chewie deserved to get a hit on him.
>>63809703
IV>VI>V>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the trilogy
>>63809633
he was beat to fuck before he ever fought her niggas eyes were watering he kept hitting himself in the side then Kunta Kinte gave him a wound kylo was wiped out by this point
>>63809732
It's okay, though, she beat Kylo because she drew on the Dark Side and tapped into her raw power. It makes sense.
>>63809732
>Do you know what Mary Sue means because this is probably the one instance it's used right on this site.
Not when it is the main lead, no.
>>63809703
I agree one hundred percent
>>63806469
She's literally the son of Luke. She's probably busting at the seams with midichlorians.
>>63809759
Even if he was wounded, he should have given her AT LEAST one bleeding wound before going down. This is ridiculous. The whole scene stinks of le feminist must win and be the cliche hero. What shitty writing.
>>63809776
Actually it seemed the opposite. She was clearly passionate at the beginning of the fight but calmed down when she and Ren got locked up together, and then she got the upper hand.
>>63809325
I'm not too worried as long as the trilogy as a whole is still good, Disney writers seem competent enough.
Anyway the movie was still good enough even with these hanging plot points. My hope here is they give a competent solution to these.
/tv/ would still absolutely shit on it however the writer choose to explain it tho.
>>63809682
>He obviously was severely injured by it.
Are you fucking blind? Watch webm of that scene again and tell me how those shots affected his ability to do mad flips. Its one thing if he would be limping like some sort of hunchback and bleeding everywhere while tripping and planting his face into the snow.
>>63806469
He used the force... with a little help from the power of his big black cock.
>>63809852
>Disney writers seem competent
>>63806469
Luke was using the force to make Finn and Rey win.
HEY GUYS
WHY IS REY ABLE TO CLOSE HER EYES AND TAP INTO THE FORCE LIKE NEO IN THE MATRIX - BUT REN - AN EXPERIENCED FORCE USER - CANNOT?
DID THE DARK SIDE SUDDENLY NOT SUPPORT HIM ANYMORE? NOT EVIL ENOUGH? OH WAIT A MINUTE, HE HAD JUST KILLED HIS FATHER.
>>63809633
Remember how he very specifically called Finn "friend" and gets mad at him dragging her by the hand? I think feminism may trump racial progress on this one mate.
>>63808629
I had a similar reaction, would have been cool if Snoke was literally a giant. Makes him seem like some kind of spooky lovecraftian old one that's been around forever.
As it is now it just seems like he's attempting to make himself look more imposing than he really is.
>>63809859
Posturing is everything to Kylo. He's not going to let himself look vulnerable in front of Ren, who has already seen into the heart of insecurity. So he tried to fight like he wasn't injured which just got him even more fucked up.
Why does everyone think Kylo Ren was drained from having killed his father? Pretending it took some sort of emotional toll?
He tricked the man into coming closer and then stabbed him. It was entirely premeditated, and as a dark side force user, should have provided him with a motivational boost above all else.
He clearly hated his father. Taking the Solo's life should not have forced him to lose a fight to two untrained Mary Sue faggots.
>>63809564
> he was too focused on his friends which led him into a trap.
Exactly. He was a whiny arrogant little brat who wanted to do things with his stupid friend instead of the work he was supposed to do and got in trouble for it. Rey is also a whiny arrogant little brat except she is more competent due to her life. She still crashed the Millennium Falcon all over the place before getting the hang of it and got captured like a bitch. She could've done ANYTHING with her abilities, but was so concerned with the past, she just was wasting her life away in a sandy hellhole.
I'm willing to bet that the next movies will probably knock her down even more because she's independent, capable and thinks she doesn't need anyone, then gets in a bad situation and realizes she needs her friends.
>>63809918
Good guys always win.
And Rey is the most remarkable female character in the last decade.
>>63809987
You. I like you. They humanized him too much, and in doing so completely fucked up the meaning of the dark side.
She was a Mary Sue and a good use of such a character.
The contrast between between a weak underdog driven by insecurity and an effortless natural talent is a great set up.
>>63809640
This and the bowcaster is heavier caliber than a blaster. I think the old Star Wars encyclopedia could confirm this, though it's probably non canon now.
You know, the funny thing about them exiling the EU, is that eventually the same problem of it supposedly becoming too complex to be manageable is going to happen to the Disney cannon, as they are still publishing novels and other shit. It may take 10 or 15 years, but it'll end up just as convoluted.
>>63810026
>good guys always win
and this statement here friend, is the reason movies with good potential goes to shit
>>63806678
Thanks, George. Take the prequels and EU out, though, and you are speaking out of your space bobo.
>>63810026
A cranky teenage Mary-Sue? I think not.
Furiosa is closest to that title.
>>63810026
>And Rey is the most remarkable female character in the last decade.
Because she's the biggest Mary Sue in the last decade?
>>63807656
prequels arent canon
>>63807059
Wrong. She is badass right from the first, totally cucking Finn.
Luke basically did a WAX ON/WAX OFF with her, and now she clicks.
>>63810107
>>63810127
Because she shows the true strength of women against men shitlords
>>63808243
this is 4chan what do you expect
>>63810107
Hey at least furiosa seems to have a more interesting backstory and career than a scavenger girl.
>>63810127
>Because she's the biggest Mary Sue in the last decade?
Mary Sues don't have character flaws. Rey does. She's incapable of accepting that she was abandoned.
Why did nobody freeze to death instantly after the sun got sucked up?
>>63810100
You got fucking downs?
How the hell did Luke block blaster shots blind-folded when he couldn't even block them when he can see?
It's prescience plain as day, prequel/EU or not.
>>63807101
She is Harry, not Hermione. Inspector Gadget's neice was a Mary Sue.
>>63809714
except that he easily wins her
until he says "Force"
and she takes it literally like some faggot
and then she becomes Wonder Woman
>>63810197
Oh what a big flaw.
>>63809987
He could have killed him the moment he was in range if he wasn't the lease bit conflicted. This is one of the relatively few things they didn't fuck up in his characterization---he even says when he's basically praying to Vaders mask, "I am tempted by the light side."
>>63810061
Anakin in both episodes 5 and 6 was pretty much this exactly, conflicted. They're just making it more external this time because they don't understand subtlety.
>>63809564
>Didn't seem like he was affected by it that much, since he was toying with the guy while fighting him as if he didn't want him dead, he just wanted to show off like a retard. Didn't stop him doing some sick jedi spins and all sorts of moves.
I only watched the fight scene once so far but he only spun around his laser sword and shit, I don't remember him doing shiv flips and other acrobatic moves. He would have fought better if he was not damaged. You were seeing him foght at a percentage of his capacity. He was shot by a fucking bowcaster dude.
>Would only empover his dark side and make him stronger
Not when you are having doubts if the dark path you are taking. He is a conflicted, immature character. "Emotional turmoil" does not equate to "stronger dark side".
>>63810197
Incapable? She leaves without any genuine hesitation. She makes no mistakes across the film and is likely in every dimension.
>>63810186
>>63810196
If >>63810026 was been sarcastic, I missed it.
>>63809823
>Son of luke
>force penis
>>63809987
>Why does everyone think Kylo Ren was drained from having killed his father? Pretending it took some sort of emotional toll?
Sith get more powerful the edgier they are. Killing your own father in front of his best friend should have made him unstoppable.
How can everyone see the lasers being shot from other planets immediately as they happen?
>>63810315
Maybe the power boost was transferred to Rey.
>>63810238
except that he easily wins him
until ben says "Force"
and he takes it literally like some faggot
and then he becomes Ace Pilot
>>63809987
Am I the only one that thinks all that "im tempted by the light side" was bullshit to make Han suffer? I mean the guy hates his father, I think he wanted to give him some hope before killing him because he's fucked up.
Even though as im typing this I think that would be too deep for a post-walt disney movie.
>>63807765
Didn't the Force get Shmi pregnant? Empower a little kid to blow up a space station? Empower Luke to wreck Death Star 1.0?
Why would the Force be unable to empower Rey?
Also: Ren wasn't all that and a bag of chips. Partially trained, an emotional wreck, torn between light and dark, was just shot, just killed his own father (emotional turmoil wrecks the ability to use the Force)...it's not THAT surprising that Rey held her own.
>>63810256
That flaw got her captured by the First Order.
Mary Sues have no actual flaws, they're wish fulfilment self-inserts. If a character has a genuine character flaw, then Mary-sue doesn't apply.
>>63810368
He was always ace pilot. That's why the rebels let him fly one of their fighters.
>>63810329
Because the speed of light is a joke in the star wars universe.
It was a long time ago you see. Things were closer together and light was slower.
Back in the day, you could get a six pack of blasters for a nickle.
>>63810278
>She makes no mistakes across the film
Did we watch the same movie? She wandered off alone in a conniption and got captured by the First Order.
>>63810368
>I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine
That meant more than just being able to talk to Luke. He aided him with the Force.
>>63810201
No that was legit, you would actually have days of residual heat to survive on if a sun could magically disappear.
Surviving in the presence of the giant flaming plasma jet was more of an issue. Also more mass than the entire planet being condensed somewhere.
Light speed shenanigans (press the button approximately now to stop just above the planet Chewie), hyper light speed laser you could in various frames of reference and dodgy solar systems were more an issue.
Never mind, space wizards.
>>63810329
That shit's not laser.
>>63810329
I think the planets are supposed to be in the same system.
That was one of the most poorly handled scenes in the movie. Basically comes out of nowhere with no tension and no real sense that what happened is a big fucking deal, when it is in fact like Alderaan times 5.
>>63809788
That's exactly when it should be used
>>63810386
Empower Rey? Like making her wonder womyn every time she hears the word "force"?
Or empowering her with better perception and reflexes due to her being force sensitive?
>>63810397
>Implying the Rebels had many people to even fly their craft.
Luke was in one firefight. He also just flew speeders before... he had good reflexes and was naturally talented.
But if you saw a kid with excellent reflexes and physicality perform a good play on a neighborhood baseball game, would you immediately sign him on for the major leagues?
Nah, Luke got a shot because they needed bodies to throw at the empire. Other than team Skywalker/Solo, rebels died like it was going out of style in the original films.
>>63806469
Chewbacca roasted Kylo's organs
Kylo never completed Jedi training and Snoke didn't want to train him until he knew he was Dark Side. Rey was proficient in CQC from being a scavenger. Also, "there was an awakening" so force powers in general are going to be more powerful in the new trilogy.
Yes
>>63809788
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sue
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're rusing. You got me.Please be rusing.
>>63809941
Why did he keep pounding his abdominal wound at the beginning there? Seemed odd.
So the Starkiller base's turbolaser is powered by whole stars. Where did they get the first star? Was it in a two star system like Tattooine? Wouldn't removing the other star cause a catastrophic shift in the planet's orbit killing everyone on the Starkiller base?
>>63810513
A better ending to the movie desu
>>63810377
I thought that was obviously the case. Every phrase he used talking to Han was deliberately vague to make it seem like he was going to defect when in reality he was toying with him.
>>63810386
The force didn't suddenly give them jedi training, in the case of Anakin it only helped "randomness" by making him crash into the mothership hangar and "accidentally" shoot missiles at the main nuclear genereactor thing, the rest was thanks to him and his abilities as a (pod) pilot
Even moreso for Luke, it only helped him aim his torpedoes, he didn't gain instant force pull and mind tricks and he already was an ace pilot
>>63806469
My personal theory is that originally Kylo Ren was completely untrained in the force, and basically just a fanboy who discovered a few tricks. I feel like the producers made a few changes in the script because audiences are too fucking stupid. The script makes much more sense if you take out the part where Luke trained Kylo.
>>63810518
Fighting starving scavengers with a stick doesn't translate into being able to fight Jedi with lightsabers.
>>63810543
You never pounded on one of your cuts to aliviate the pain? I know I have.
>>63810547
Just crash a single X-wing into it at light speed.
Job done.
>>63810387
Your confusing a flaw with a plot convenience. A flaw should be used as a tool to humanize a character and make them to a certain extent empathetic, while allowing something call character development to flourish. The sudden loss of her one flaw won't do shit.
Wow she got over it and now she doesn't need to go back to Jakku! Watch out baddies Rey is coming for you!
>>63810563
Yeah but most people don't seem to think so. It's weird, I picked that shit up right away.
>>63809776
>not watching the scene where she specifically closes her eyes like the alien lady told her to do to acquire light points.
>>63810592
That seems neigher safe nor smart
Are you mentally unstable?
yeah she and the nigger shouldt even have the samlest change against kylo ren even then they both got the powerfullst and highst assessment of the force ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!
not too mention that jedi-mindtricks are impossible for her
it takes years of hard traning in the force too even youse the cheapes jedi-mindtricks
episode 4 and 7 are exactly the same hate disney soooooooooooooo much for this anyone who ever sad that this is a good movie should burn for it for ever in hell
by the way they couldn't sart the hyperspace-engine in the hangar of a nother ship!!!!!!!!!!!!!
they would easly crushed in ziny parts both ships if they would try it
>>63810543
I figured it both looked imposing, but also was helping to get some endorphins flowing to block some of the pain.
>>63810670
>get a big cut
>thinking straight
I think you might be autistic man you need to go out more.
>>63810575
Being able to stop blaster shots and keep them effortlessly in midair, being able to read people's minds, Snoke implying that he's been trained but the training hasn't been finished.
Your theory's bad.
Is it just me or were there no good quotes in this movie? All of the other Star Wars movies were dense with memorable quotes, either really good or really bad, but this one had really forgettable dialog. It was all corny banter.
>desert planet
>green planet with no oceans but many lakes
>ice planet
How come all these planets have just one climate?
>>63808004
ok fagboy. a Sith does not feel PAIN or get pissed... or what was the fucking point of him killing his dad.
>>63810731
Star wars is all about small scale on a gigantic scale
See: coruscant being comprised of the jedi temple, the senate and maybe one street
>>63810671
Fuck off
The Force Awakens is a fucking masterpiece and you manchildren can't handle the fact that it's better than your nostalgic ancient piece of shit movie.
>>63810731
Because that's how it was in the OT and this movie is a remake for autists.
Are Snoke and Maz related? They look like they could be the same race. Whatever race Maz is can live for over a thousand years, which sounds like a clue to me. Races in the SWU that live long lives are usually very force sensitive. I wouldn't be surprised if Maz is the new Yoda figure, but I doubt she is a Jedi. Maz is supposed to be a big new character, JJ talked about her backstory and said that more of her backstory would come out through other venues.
The fuck is wrong with you people.
They went to such great lengths to show how injured and unhinged Kylo was there. He's fucking bleeding out in the snow after getting hit by that bow blaster thing. Everything else hit by that has died instantly. You're really surprised that a trained soldier at full strength managed to get a hit in?
You know why he doesn't win against Rey? He's not trying to kill her. He corners her and then lets her out because he's not fucking trying to kill her. And then he fucks up and loses.
>>63810550
I don't disagree. Destroying Starkiller Base seems like the same mistake of destroying the Death Star in the OT. Where do you go from there for the finale?
>>63807925
Well, Lucasfilm did make Shadows of the Empire which had its own action figures, game, score, comic, and novel. The only missing part was a film, but Dash Rendar's(video game protagonist) was retconned into ANH on Tatooine in the Lucas retouch.
That's canon and takes place between ESB and ROTJ.
>>63810761
>a Sith does not feel PAIN or get pissed
Sith embrace these things because it gives them power or whatever. Pic related was only alive because he converted pain into dark side crack or whatever.
>>63810784
god ur life so fucking pathetic you honestly will shit no matter what it looks like hahahahaah
I think it's more realistic for planets to be overwhelmingly one climate.
>>63810795
Maz says in the basement that she "is no Jedi, but I know the Force". Implying she has SOME connection to the Force, which is probably how she found the saber to begin with.
>>63810824
thanks man so ya the movie is full of shit. cause wouldn't that make him stronger and no problem kill a nig that has never held a saber before?
>>63810824
>never heard of Nivea for Men
>>63810720
The Force Awakens is the name of the movie. JJ Abrams is out of the project after this movie. I don't know if that scene would be in the film if the original script were followed. It feels a lot like the old sith lord, him using controlled force powers, etc were added to an almost complete story to dumb it down for dumb audiences.
Seriously, think about it. The tantrums, the fucked up lightsaber, losing to someone who's not even a neophyte, not only in mind reading but lightsaber dueling? It doesn't make any sense that he's been the apprentice to 2 master jedi.
Seriously, watch the movie again, there's SOOOO many points in which it's pretty clear that some scenes were totally for a different story. Shit, even Finn's desertion would make more sense if the half mad tantrum man with the shiney sword were getting more powerful and able to stop blaster shots mid air now.
>>63807767
>I dont know what good character development should be in a franchise famous for badass Christopher-Lee esque villains.
>>63810543
You ever been hurt bad and tried to keep going on it? Smacking that shit a few times actually does help. Gets your adrenaline pumping from the pain as well as desensitizing you to it for a little bit.
Like, doctors would not recommend it, but it helps temporarily.
>>63810791
At least OT had the excuse of being made in 1977 with a way smaller budget.
Say what you will about the prequels, but they had great environments and planets.
>>63806678
>force users have limited ability to deflect blast shots
Vader doesn't even try to deflect them nigga, he just takes it like a Sith
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHH6YVHGh90
>>63810761
>or what was the fucking point of him killing his dad
Another thing that bothered me.
Wouldn't it make more sense for him to get a power up from killing his father? Wasn't he supposedly held back from being a stronger sith because of his parents?
>>63810720
The fact that JJ is done after this one is probably the strongest bit of evidence that the producers mucked with his vision, IMO. He's been rock hard about doing star wars since he did lost and he's just doing one? C'mon man!
>>63810919
>The fact that JJ is done after this one is probably the strongest bit of evidence that the producers mucked with his vision, IMO. He's been rock hard about doing star wars since he did lost and he's just doing one? C'mon man!
Not his fault. They were already giving the job to the Fantastic 4 dude. Obviously that is canned now so who knows what happens now?
How the fuck did a small army of maybe 100,000 people build a planet-sized base anyway? Where did they get all the full-grown forest trees? Or what it always a planet they hollowed out or something?
Whole fucking thing is a bit bonkers.
Are force ghosts ever going to be addressed? It puts a hole in Kylo's obsession with Vader if Anakin's ghost told him to stop being on the dark side.
>>63810494
>Implying Wedge didn't teach him how to fly
>Implying Luke didn't beat Wedge's score on the simulator. Wedge was the top rebel pilot.
>>63810816
Sothey don't destroy the thing but it's still operational, movie ends with a rogue empire ship following Rey and R2 to luke's planet
I can't write for shit, but I would never write a squadron of x-wings destroying a fucking planet.
>>63806561
>Dark Side user can't even shoot lightning out of his hands yet.
Neither could Darth Vader, stupid. Kylo still was able to react to freeze a blaster bolt shot from behind him in a surprise attack and freeze it without effort while at the same time TKing Poe and mind-fucking him into passing out.
>>63810870
You have some good points there, but I think Ren's just had really shaky, incomplete training rather than no training.
>>63810960
The ghost of Hayden Christensen showed up and Kylo told him to fuck off because he couldn't believe that fag could be Vader
>>63810014
>He was a whiny arrogant little brat
Whiny? Yes. Arrogant little brat? No. Watch movies again.
>instead of the work he was supposed to do
He wasn't suppose to do anything. He chose his path himself and he was walking it and he thought he would have pulled it off by being good human and a friend that never lets his friends down instead of following very obscure and illusive path of the force he never heard about before. He was giving up because he didn't believe in himself and wanted to save his friends thinking it would be better to do something productive and reasonable instead of trying to learn something that might not even work.
You double nigger.
>>63806469
There is obviously something special in Finn, either he has some sort of enhanced skills from being a Storm Trooper or he is a force sensitive.
1. Clearly has a connection with Rey
2. Gunner seat action in the Tie Fighter and Millenium Falcon despite having never done it before.
>>63810916
Only if he truly commits to it. Completely rejects any love he feels for him and embraces the anger.
I don't think he did that. I think he feels guilty as fuck. Grief and remorse aren't traits of a Sith.
why didn't Poe came back looking for BB 8?
where did Rey heard about Jedi mind tricks?
why does stormtrooper helmet don't filter both smoke /and/ chemicals?
why does his movies always end with a planet imploding?
>>63810916
um i guess we have to wait and find out in 3 years, even though we already saw him get beat by a girl hahaha
>>63810951
I mean, it's obvious he's trying to do a new trilogy. I think, if my understanding of what the story would have been is correct, he would have been able to make the movie if NO ONE from the original cast was able to make it back, Luke, being the possible exception.
I just hope the next one doesn't pander so hard to nostalgia.
>>63811003
I guess the screenwriter could have added the freezing the blaster bolt later and forgot to revise the later fight scene.
Kind of like how Obi-wan forgot he could use force speed to help out Qui Gon.
>>63810956
Contractors.
Droids.
I imagine there's a lot of organizations in the galaxy that don't give a shit who they're working for. Money is money.
>>63810494
>just flew speeders
WRONG
His friend from tatooine vouches for him as the best pilot in the galaxy and Luke admits to nulls eyeing womprats with his uncle's fighter
I agree with the rest of your post though
This is literally minority star wars desu.
>>63810761
Don't think he's a sith yet
anyone have any videos of the finale fights?
>>63811028
Grief and remorse are stepping stones to becoming a sith, but seeing as every character is one dimensional, he'll probably get a redemption.
Thanks for the spoilers, m8s. Now I don't have to watch the movie.
>>63811127
It's not like a circumcision. All you have to do is know the Sith code and commit to being an edgelord.
>>63811036
Why did R2 randomly wake up at the end?
Why is there an unexplored bit of the galaxy when the technology to explore everywhere is there?
Why was the final piece of the map required when it was very obvious where it'd be?
Why did Luke out of all people abandon the galaxy after everything he'd done?
Why was the rebellion called the rebellion when the republic exists?
>>63811112
You're wrong. Luke was tested by the rebels and he beat their best pilot. He was really a great pilot.
>>63810961
Not part of the films... and when?
Did the Death Star take several weeks to get there?
>>63811010
It's obvious now that he has training, according to the new story, but imagine this, what if, at the end, while he's laying there with 1 missing arm, and 1 missing leg, in the snow, if he hears a voice, first quietly, then growing louder.
"I have been watching you, young one. You have made a fantastic disguise, but you're a pretender. I come here with an offer, pledge yourself to me, and I will give you the power to make her pay. You will be greater than that other pretender, Luke Skywalker. I will show you the true power of the force. Come. Find me."
End.
That's how you introduce a fucking Sith Lord, with a proper Faustian Bargain.
>>63810997
I think it would be better if they rendered it inoperable but made it clear they didn't have the resources to destroy it. If it could still fire it would destroy the Resistance completely.
>>63811127
um he killed his dad for his edge lord master. man these new starwars fans known absolutely nothing. just like all normies and plebs.
>>63811177
You misunderstood me friend, I wasn't talking about why he got to fly a T-65, I'm merely explaining why he's a great pilot
>>63811036
Gas masks only work for a set amount of time before you have to replace filters and seals. Toxins will definitely be able to pass through if they didn't build in replaceable filters. Plus the suits are clearly not NBC gear.
>>63811021
Yeah, he's a bit like OT Leia in that he seems oddly proficient and various things and really good at not dying in stupidly dangerous circumstances. And it was her Force sensitivity that kept her alive, so...
>>63811185
It's canon nevertheless. It's never stated the exact amount of time needed for the Death Star to arrive, but this was before the battle.
>>63810816
Going to a sith home planet? Some ancient jedi/sith shit in a temple filled with crazy alien tech
>>63810575
No he was trained by luke. Remember?
>>63811255
The stormtrooper armor seems worse than in the previous movies anyway. That or Finn was a dumbass removing his armor on Jakku. As far as I know, stormtrooper armor is made to withstand extreme temperatures and climates. Stormtroopers have been using their armor near lava and shit.
>>63811166
There are trials you have to perform to be considered a Jedi or Sith. Though we know very little about the Sith trials now that the EU is noncanon. Lords of the Sith didn't really bother to go into it either, and it's in the new canon.
>>63810804
I could have an arm cut off and still win. Sure he isn't trying to kill her but he loses still which means he was trying his hardest.
>>63811074
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3dI-ghYimg
>>63809847
but it was a draw because no one had the higher ground
>>63811170
>Why was the rebellion called the rebellion when the republic exists?
All your other points have something to them, but it's called the Resistance in the movie, not the Rebellion.
Finn is Mace Windu's grand nephew who was kidnapped from birth by the First Order who, using Imperial archives have selected children from birth to kidnapp who might be force sensitive to create a super effective series of non-clone troopers.
It helps eliminate force sensitive bloodlines while providing for enhanced fighting skills by people naturally force sensitive.
>>63811170
Why didn't Phasma immediately called back up as soon as she got randomly snagged? Was her radio broke?
Why not putting the exhaust port under an ocean or a fucking mountain this time?
Why not just closing the fucking bay doors when you see a rogue TIE taking off?
Why not simply just fucking shut it down remotly? was it hacked? Does Poe also know how to hack?
Why does Rey knew she be safe in those cells? Does she also knows how starkiller base function just like her hoover bike? and the falcon? and the force? and light sabers?
>>63811339
it's literally the exact same thing that Anakin was forced to do.
>>63807023
She was also in a tough situation. The force is clearly an ability that is similar to anime. Anime = stronger in tough situations and responds to will of user. The force is the same.
You need to watch more children's cartoons, Anon.
>>63811329
Clones could literally use their armour to board ships in vacuum, as seen in TCW
>>63811310
I know, according to the movie that was made, he was trained by Luke. I'm saying the things that happen to him were things that shouldn't have happened to someone who was trained in the force. I already pointed out where it's pretty obvious that he wasn't trained.
His lightsaber is shit and unstable
Tantrums
Losing to someone who has never been trained (as well) twice
Everyone's general disrespect towards him(I know it's a "rhyme" with the same disrespect that Vader went through in a New Hope).
Etc.
I feel it would be more organic and the movie would flow better/have less plotholes if he weren't trained by anyone, but had picked up some tricks through sheer devotion and effort and personal research.
>>63811372
>knocked on his ass
>disarmed
>draw
>>63811329
It's a good idea to remove your armor full of electronics and probably tracking devices especially if your side just wiped out several settlements in Jakku.
>>63808867
The thing is, it didn't look like a hologram. I thought it was a parallel, like half the things in the movie. And even in the prequels, the holograms appeared partially transparent.
>>63811424
Fair point.
>>63811416
>can breath in vacuum
>chemicals will kill you
>>63806880
Her mother probably told her all sorts of stories about the Jedi when she was little, before dumping her off on Jakku to keep her safe from Ren.
Also, Reyn's father is Luke, I'm calling it now.
>>63806880
>She learns force grab, mind tricks and sword skills in mere seconds without training...
Holy fuck, for real?? I haven't even seen it yet, but seems like they're REALLY trying to push the whole strong female character thing & couldn't wait to jump right to it.
Sounds trash honestly.
>>63811290
It was stated. It took them less than a day.
Vader directly says so. He says
>"This will be a DAY long remembered. It has seen the end of Kenobi, it will soon see the end of the Rebellion."
The original complaint was that explaining away random new skills with the force in the new movies was silly.
Down here in the chain, you are saying that a boy who had never flown a fighter was able to be trained and master the craft in less than a day.
The force is OP, was in the original, is in the new films. You pick up shit fast.
>>63811538
Yeah it only takes as much as someone saying "force" for her to become a jedi
>>63811538
It's more strong protagonist than strong female character.
>>63811417
I agree with you, the whole trained by Luke and pwning the Jedi Academy seemed like something from a previous writing.
SW:FW
Dont think, just watch!
And give me my money, you little fucking SW-fag!
>>63811552
That reminds me. I watched the Machete Order a couple of days ago and when the Death Star arrives at Yavin, instead of waiting to go around to get to Yavin 4, why didn't they just blow up Yavin? Surely that would have destroyed the moon as well.
>>63811573
Yeah, even if the protagonist was a male this would be bullshit.
>>63811538
There's a theory that she was trained by Luke but had her memory wiped, gradually recovering it. I believe there was something similar in the extended universe, and the movie does borrow ideas from there so it's not completely farfetched. However it's still just a theory.
>>63807235
Luke also wasn't as receptive to the Force at first. He didn't believe in it at all in the beginning. Even when he was training under Yoda, he still had doubts.
When Reyn realized she could use the Force, she just kind of accepted it.
>>63811538
It was just out of nowhere and cringey as fuck, at the end she finds luke for training and all I could think is ''why? she basically knows everything already''
She has in one movie what took luke three to achieve. She's super agile and fast, she fights like in the fucking prequels, she force push and grab, she mind fuck a stormtrooper harder than old ben... Seriously I mean what the fuck... The only thing she didn't knew was how to remove the safety on a fucking blaster.
>>63811112
The only fighter Luke flies in (the one he bulleyes whomp rats with) is the T-16.
The T-16 is designed for planetary flight. It is not a space fighter.
That's like asking someone who is a great hang glider to fly a fighter jet. Gravity is gone, air resistance is gone... it's not a transition you could make in a day. Luke never flew a Space fighter, and he had less than a single day to be prepped before the Death Star got to Yavin IV
Without being unnaturally given skills rapidly due to the force (which is what we were saying was stupid that people complained about in TFA). TFA is not unique in that.
>>63811639
Yeah she was trained to use the force as a 6 years old obviously
guys when whos makes porno parody? i think porno will be better plot
>>63811686
Luke had doubts to Yoda's claim of his mastery and teaching methods, not of the power of the Force itself.
So is episode 8 going to be the first movie that takes place directly after the last movie? It'd be really lame if they just have take place a few weeks after and we don't see what happens during Luke and Rey's meetup.
>>63811728
Force sensitive children are taken to the academy at a very young age to be trained, Luke might've done the same. Considering she's probably the child of Luke, she's also pumped up with midichlorians.
>>63811625
Yavin was a gas giant... so maybe the Death Star couldn't destroy it easily?
We've only ever seen it destroy a smaller rocky planet.
>>63811706
Not to mention that she also clearly used rage to beat Kylo.
>>63811777
He did have doubts about the Force as well. He said lifting the X-Wing from the swamp was impossible. The entire point of Yoda lifting it is to show Luke that it's possible, that the Force really is that strong.
>>63811833
But we know the Force is strong because Vader said the Force > destroying planets.
>>63811797
>All this denial
>>63811387
>>63811170
The socio-political structure of this movie is just retarded. It's not really surprising though. The prequels were all politics and that was boring as fuck. But the fact there is a Resistance when there's a fully-formed Republic, and they're both against the First Order, is kind of stupid. Unless the Republic is officially a pacifist organization but funds the Resistance under the table to fight them. But I have to guess because they don't explain any of this shit.
>>63811573
Buuuutt...
Padme - strong female character. She is powerful politick, she's smart, brave and can shoot a blaster.
leya strong female character. Smart, brave, do not give up even after torture, can kill a stormtrooper and tormented conscience
Rei...fucking bullshit meri sue!
pussy-jedai-pilot-mechanic-forcuser-meleecombat
>>63811797
Younglings don't learn how to duel with lightsabers and mind trick people
They learn to write speak meditate and be good goys
>>63811706
Fuck all of that. Seriously. I'll still prob watch it & I'm not much of SW dork, but that's pretty insulting to the entire base & goes against all the previous films.
I mean, shit. Anakin supposedly had more of the force than anyone ever (and was prob created by Plagueis) and even he needed tons of training.
>>63811552
Still, Luke was an experienced pilot. Learning how to fly a different kind of craft fast is completely reasonable. Learning in mere seconds skills that take even the most prolific force users years to achieve is ridiculous.
>>63806678
General Grevious was non-force user and he murdered many jedi scum
>>63806469
He's not a fully trained force user his light saber work is clearly not that well.
She is forced to use the force by Ben which is the whole reason she can use it so fast. If he hadn't pushed it out of her she'd be weak as well.
People seem to forget that luke doesn't use the force until he blows up the death star no one forces him to do anything really force related until yoda makes him pick up the x-wing.
The plot is very similar but I loved all of it and it sets up a completely different movie for 8 than 5.
>>63809156
>Literally only a right click/Google away.
And yes, she fits the definition to a "T". She was only made so remarkable because muh stronk womyn, none of it contributed in any sensible way to the plot. She should be capable of none of the things she was able to do in this movie. Fuck sake, man, by the end of it she's the new owner/captain of the goddam Millennium Falcon, with Chewie as her first mate. I couldn't think of a more shit tier, fan-fic bullshit ending if I tried.
>>63811915
You did watch the prequels right?
Why Lucas thought it would be smart to give fucking 7-9 year olds fully functional lightsabers is beyond me. They should be trained in basic academic shit until like teen years, when they're big enough to handle a lightsaber. Why does the academy have a stock of kid-sized lightsabers?
>>63811956
He was a half-droid cyborg trained by Dooku who was said to be the greatest duelist in the galaxy.
Also if you watch the Clone Wars, Grievous never fights fair. He never actually kills Jedi 1 on 1, he always has a bunch of droids with him so it's like 6 on 1 each time. He only delivers the finishing blow.
>>63811956
He was a basedf warrior-turned-cyborg monstrosity and he was taught by Dooku so I'll allow it
What grind my gears is hando hanaka beating Ashoka
>>63811974
Oh yeah I loved that they copied the death star form 4! The plot was shit and should die.
>>63811851
Calling it now. Episode 9 has a planet destroyed by a force user.
>>63810563
He wasn't toying with him, rather, what he was talking about in terms of doing what he had to do was killing Han. His hesitation wasn't about leaving the dark side, it was about whether he could fully commit to it by doing something as unforgivable as parricide. For him, this would be like slaying the younglings for Anakin, the point beyond which there could be no turning back (or so he thought). That way he wouldn't have to live in doubt, because he could always tell himself, "There's no way I can ever turn to the Light Side, because I've done something so evil that it can never be forgiven no matter what I do". You can even see some reason in this way of thinking in the parodies you sometimes see where the younglings greet the supposedly redeemed ghost Anakin with a big "Fock you".
>>63810547
It probably has a hyperdrive and can be moved from system to system.
>>63811948
It isn't.
Space shuttle pilots are often former aircraft pilots.
It still takes two years of training.
Luke was able to pull his lightsaber toward him in the original (despite having no training to do so in the films). Self taught.
Also, the entire films title, side plot, and speech by Skoke all talk about how the force is awakening. Things were snowballing as the force started to exert itself.
>>63812133
PLEASE TAKE A MOMENT TO REALIZE YOU ARE DEFENDING THE VERY DEFINITION OF A MARY SUE.
Word around the intarwub, the stormtrooper who got glamoured by Mary sue was played by Daniel Craig.
Training stormtrooper 10-15 years
first combat? after 10-15 years of training!
i dont like kill the people! i m a good!
kill the his army-bro in hangar. kill them all!
>>63812133
He pulled his light saber in the Empire Strikes Back, after learning how to do so by studying an old light saber and a lost Jedi artifact. It wasn't self taught.
Is there a who shot first joke in this movie?
>>63812133
instead of shillings you guys should take notes for the next one.
just a tip.
>>63812221
Well, Han threw one of those smuggler guys into the mouth of those riptars or whatever the hell, so there's no more gray area. He's straight up merkin' niggas now.
>>63812203
If you only read the most recent comment in a chain, you end up giving yourself heart failure apparently.
Way up top people were complaining about it being unreasonable that Rey was so skillful.
I'm on the side of people pointing out that Luke pulled off some super ridiculous stuff in the originals.
Either both are, or both aren't.
>>63812215
Yeah this pissed me off. He's completely shaken to his core seeing a squadmate die in his arms and unable to cope. Half a day later he's killing dozens of his comrades while busting out Poe without any fucking restraint.
>>63810956
Where did you get that number from senpai?
>>63812215
>have an emotional moment where you see the people you trained with all your life die
>when it's time to execute the filthy peasants who did this to your brothers
>join them instead
TRAITOR
R
A
I
T
O
R
How sick of pathos. He is everywhere. New Order - the passage of the dark side. Light and darkness will bring a balance ... Paphos, Paphos everywhere.
>>63812362
you're completely wrong and arguing for the sake of arguing.
>>63811188
hahaha what, that sounds shit
>>63810587
Kylo got shot
>>63812218
Oh, must have missed the part when that happened.
If you don't mention it in the films, it isn't a part of the film canon. That's expanded universe... and while that's helpful for building future connections and creating stories, you should never use it to explain plot holes.
Because a ton of EU bits from the Star Wars universe were made up by nerds who spotted the plot holes and wanted to explain them away somehow.
>>63812430
Reminder that Clone Wars and Rebels are canon despite not being films.
>>63812373
He saw those people slaughter unarmed villagers.
If you suddenly realized you were in an army that was the equivalent of the nazis... would you become a pacifist, or change sides?
>>63812426
He should still have force chocked and gutted her on the spot
>>63812476
Those same people fucking grew up with him and were equally brainwashed.
Dude Rey knows everything and it's stupid okay, deal with it, move to the next one, you can't fix this one, you can't turn people blind, you fucked that part up, you should've let some place for her to grow instead of making her Kusanagi mode in the first movie, now you have to deal with it, what you're going to do Jayjay? WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO? STOP SHILLING YOU'VE GOT A MESS TO FIX.
focus damn it, focus.
>>63811893
Neither Padme or Leia were the main character. Rey is the protag, and like Luke, she's a powerful protag.
>>63812420
I'll admit to doing that arguing bit (we're on a fucking image board mate... what, do you think we are going to not waste our time with stupid discussions and arguments?)
Not wrong though. Luke always was a "Mary Sue/Marty Sue". That was the point... every little boy wanted to find out they were special even though they seemed normal.
Harry Potter was like that, Episode IV had that in Luke's character... Eragon (not the shitty sequels though)... it goes on and on. Mary/Marty Sues are very common and can be good when done well.
Discounting it on definition is idiotic.
>>63812591
Han, Leia, and Luke were all equally protagonists and lead characters in the Original Trilogy. Luke however was the primary lead.
>>63812601
huff them farts harder you might get a high.
>>63812430
That's in Disney Canon. Also the light saber pull is not a plot hole. This happened during the second movie, when it was obvious that Luke has been improving his force abilities.
>>63812601
>Luke was always a "Mary Sue/Marty Sue".
Retard.
>>63812382
>>63812373
Seriously, Lucas showed army totalitarian empire in the original trilogy. Of course, winning stormtroopers Ewoks looked like something strange. But I see a flatulence in the new film. The only good point - an impressive speech at the parade ground. What is missing is the mustache of Hitler.
I have a feeling that Disney did not have enough money for a consultant and adviser on logic to the armies of totalitarian countries.
In the Soviet army for two years from the recruit did the person who is subject to the charter. He can appeal it, but only after the execution.
but new order...can not deal with that for years of training.
>>63812476
I would be proud to fight for the good guys and keep supporting my country?
>>63812601
Luke only achieved one thing without practice, destroying the death star. Everything else was the result of a lot of practice and hard work. He got his ass handed to him by Vader.
>>63812464
They aren't film canon though.
Saying that they are on the same level of canon would be like having Agent Coulson save all of the Avengers in the next film using the plot device from a random episode in the second season of the TV series.
If you cross media, you need to introduce the concept in the new media. You can only assume it can go unsaid if the media you are using is entirely a spin off (thus, the people watching it almost certainly saw the original).
Clone Wars and Rebels are canon, yes. But you can't have their canon influence the main films without introducing the concepts.
>>63812676
>In the Soviet army for two years from the recruit did the person who is subject to the charter. He can appeal it, but only after the execution.
but new order...can not deal with that for years of training.
Can you rewrite that I don't understand
>>63812689
Luke was instinctively using the same lightsaber combat styles and forms that Anakin/Vader had a preference for with only a month of informal training under Yoda.
>destroying the death star
Except for the fact he was a trained and experienced swoop pilot his whole life living on Tatooine using a T-16 Skyhopper. He doesn't pull shit out of his ass like Rey did in this movie.
>>63812676
yeah, I think the first order is more like a parodies of communist dictatorships.
>supreme leader
>>63812560
Genetics matters.
They weren't all clones. Sure, they tried to keep the environment the same, but behavior is environment+genetics. Same with intelligence, and a number of other factors.
Finn was an outlier, but that's what you get for not using clones.
>>63812788
I think you are missing the point that his ethical qualms of not killing here are magically evaporated in a quick face-change.
>Supreme Leader Snoke
>>63812866
sssssssssnok
>>63812744
>Can you rewrite that I don't understand
The protagonist, a former stormtrooper
He says - he taught since childhood. the child was taken away from the family.
This means that for at least ten years, it trained to follow orders. During these 10 years, he was not involved in the fighting. It's his word.
He says that in the first battle realized that he could not kill people.
Ten years of training! The first fight! And he is a weakling.
DEAR LEADER SNOOKY
>>63812761
If it was a parody of the Soviet Union instead of pathos job title would be something more conventional - Secretary General. The secretary! Not a leader.
>>63812866
>>63812888
>>63812919
>Supreme Leader
>Snoke
>>63812758
How is a lower speed AIRCRAFT even comparable to a space fighter?
He made the switch in less than a day.
I said it earlier on, but that's like transitioning from hang gliding to flying a jet. But worse. Gravity is gone, air is gone. Way faster too.
>>63812832
Most soldiers initially have nerves/problems in their first conflict.
He just had that immediately followed up by being ordered to murder unarmed captives.
He decided he was on the wrong side... and only started shooting when trying to escape (and his life was on the line).
>>63813005
>lower speed
Where is this coming from?
>space fighter
X-Wings operate in the atmosphere the same way Skyhoppers do, controls are the same. Its rudimentary so your contrarian attitude to disagree seems dumb.
>He made the switch in less than a day.
The same company that builds the Skyhoppers builds the X-Wings. Incom, they use the same controls and cockpit styles.
Its almost the same fucking thing.
>>63813094
Its still nonsensical and a stupid transition. He outright admits and states every single member of his fellow Stormtroopers have the same background as him and he has no qualms about killing them literally overnight.
This is shit writing.
>Snoke
>>63813094
shoot at civilians (which may have killed his comrade) who see for the first time in my life, and certainly - the last. This is bad.
Shoot colleagues with whom serve on the same ship and perhaps live in a barracks - it was good.
>>63813096
It's basic. Atmospheric speeds are always way slower than space flight speeds... because of air resistance that would cause massive heating (to the point of fusion) if you went too fast.
>Its almost the same fucking thing.
I never said the controls were different. It's the entire concept that is different. If they attacked the Death Star with an atmosphere and full planetary gravity, I would totally agree with you that the switch would be easy.
But Luke was a pilot who went from atmospheric flight to space flight in less than a day (really, just a few hours).
So yeah, Skyhoppers and X-wings fly the same way in an atmosphere... but my points were all about switching to flying in space.
Next time try flying a fighter jet underwater... assuming we had a magical one that had working engines there. Obviously the responsiveness, and techniques would all change.
There is a reason meteorites burn up... the switch from space to atmosphere is big.
phasa mention's something about "reconditioning" so I just assumed his ability to deviate psychological control as a sign of him having potential in the force.
>>63813330
Nigger don't spew pseudo-scientific shit to contradict me because its not working. The only difference between atmospheric combat and space combat is the lack of friction.
>>63813247
It's like you don't even understand how desertion works.
What you described has happened in real life. Multiple times.
>>63813400
It has happened to regular soldiers suddenly being taught to kill civilians
The situation here is quite different I'd say
>>63813363
Yeah, but try walking across the floor without friction.
IT'S A BIG FUCKING DEAL.
But you mean air resistance. In that case, try throwing a paper airplane in a vacuum. It doesn't fly anymore, it just falls like anything of the same weight.
Because air resistance matters.
And all of that was real science. Nothing pseudo about it. The reason it isn't convincing you is because you don't get physics.
