>Quentin Tarantino on John Ford
"One of my American Western heroes is not John Ford, obviously. To say the least, I hate him. Forget about faceless Indians he killed like zombies. It really is people like that that kept alive this idea of Anglo-Saxon humanity compared to everybody else's humanity — and the idea that that's hogwash is a very new idea in relative terms. And you can see it in the cinema in the '30s and '40s — it's still there even today.
Is he one to talk, seriously? He turned the tragedy of American slavery into a spaghetti western. I hate Tarantino's hypocrisy and self aggrandizing.
>>63768996
UNO
>>63768996
Who cares? His movies are fun.
>>63769171
FARTO
That's funny, because his theater is showing two John Ford movies later this month. Granted, they aren't westerns.
Literally what the fuck is he talking about? Did he just not understand The Searchers at all?
>>63768996
he's absolutely right. the connection you made with slavery doesn't make sense because Tarantino wasn't painting the slaves as the bad guys.
John Ford - greatest American filmmaker
Quentin Tarantino - really annoying asshole
>>63769283
John Ford made A LOT of westerns. Just because some of his later works were more ambivalent about the genocide doesn't mean he didn't have many early on where the Indians were just cannon fodder.
I'm pretty sure that Tarantino has some mental illness the public doesn't know about.
>>63768996
>this idea of Anglo-Saxon humanity compared to everybody else's humanity
Eh
>>63769237
@threeseventeeno
Ha! It's funny cause John Ford is one of the greatest filmmakers that ever lived and Tarantino has made one good movie! Well done Quentin!
>>63769353
So what? Engage a movie on its own terms.
>John Ford
>Anglo-Saxon
>>63769509
What do you mean? Tarantino was talking about the larger arc of Ford's career, not specifically The Searchers.
The man's always been an inconsistent idiot.
I'd imagine it's quite harrowing if you're a Tarantino fan and you love his movies and imagine this great, socially sensitive genius behind them all, then you watch him in interviews and all you see is a weird attention seeker with a bad haircut, shat pants and claims that his movies weren't ripped off from other movies. Hell, I've actually seen this exact reaction from his black fans in YouTube comments.
>>63769548
It's a black male thing
There is not a single more massive big mouthed talentless faggot in all of cinema.
>>63769539
I know. His reaction is still dumb on all levels.
>>63769353
I read Lonesome Dove a couple years back.
Watched the Mini Series to compare a few months back.
Great stuff, but I wonder how it would play today.
I can't imagine it would work today in such a polarized culture.
There has to be more context than this to your quote. There is some truth to what he says, though Ford still directed some great films
>>63769622
Except that it isn't and examining Ford's work and how it shaped contemporary perceptions of Native Americans is definitely a valid (albeit not total) criticism of his work. Ford wasn't the only one to do it nor did he start it (look at dimestore western novels), but he definitely shaped the depiction.
>>63769401
>what is humanity
>>63769727
So? It's not as if it led to the genocide of the Indians. "He shaped the depiction." It was how people thought back then. No one gave a shit about political correctness.
Typical liberal, believing others to be guilty of thought crimes.
It's kind of a weird statement on Tarantino's behalf.
The films are really well made even if the content is distasteful or the personal politics of the director are in opposition to Tarantino's.
And he seems to give a pass to lots of distasteful material because of the quality of the filmmaking.
Why Ford in particular?
Then again, he seems to have trouble distinguishing reality from entertainment.
I saw him on Bill Maher talking about police shootings, and asking why, if in 70's cop shows the cops could arrest people with fist fights and not shooting, they couldn't do it in present day real life.
>>63769727
Hating Indians was an integral part of the ethos of American westward settlers you fucking mong, some asshole's fucking movies 100 years after the fact had fuck all to do with these prevailing notions of Indians.
But how was John Ford's foot game?
It's important to recall that the American Pioneers weren't widely known for their enjoyment of ripping babies out of a live mother's womb, using the kid's intestines to strangle the mother to death.
Or cutting out a woman's pubic bone and wearing it as a crown.
So yeah, there was a culture clash, but that was probably inevitable.
>>63769983
He reinforced a stereotype that made it was used to dispossess millions. And don't pretend like the plight of Native Americans just ended once the settlers made it to the Pacific Ocean. Look into Native American history in the 20th century to see how (primarily white) politicians continued to fuck their shit up.
>>63770171
>there are people who unironically believe in the noble savage
>>63769727
Shaped contemporary perceptions? Pretty sure the actual conflicts with Indians did that, long before Ford. And even if he reinforced that perception... what consequences did it have outside of offending some nambly pambly liberals?
Might as well criticize the Quiet Man for shaping misinformed perceptions of the Irish.
Ford dealt in myths. Stop reading so literally into his work.
>>63770234
Yeah, Ford dealt in myths. Those myths were racist.
>>63770214
Native Americans were humans who did some terrible things, but they were forced off land that they had lived on for years. Should white people leave Europe, their home for millenia, because might makes right?
>>63770171
Then those politicians are to blame. If you think Ford had some hand in that, feel free to provide evidence. Otherwise you're just another liberal moral purist making a baseless conjecture.
>>63770171
In the grand scheme of things, his films didn't do all that much. The responsibility lies solely with the American government that could never keep it's promises.
theres no way he actually said this
>>63770140
underrated post 2bhwy
>>63770392
>Ford dealt in myths. Those myths were racist.
Lots of great myths are, by modern standards. And yet the stories still resonate. Could be that the racism was besides the point and pretty harmless.
>>63770424
HOLY SHIT. I'm not speaking in code.
Ford helped propagate a conception of Native Americans that helped excuse the genocide that came with Manifest Destiny. He painted an image of a nefarious band who were trying to prevent good old white folk from achieving the American Dream. In reality, it was brutal uprooting and overzealous policing by institutions that fashioned themselves superior to Native Americans. I'm not saying that a politician left Drums Along the Mohawk and decided to kill an Indian, but you can't pretend like Ford didn't help disseminate the idea of Native Americans as a subordinate race.
>>63770392
>applying contemporary values to historical events
enjoy your white guilt m8
Some fucking filmmaker had fuck all to do with any of it though.
>>63770171
There are estimates that state that there may have been only as much as 1-2 million aboriginals throughout the entire landmass comprising the U.S. when Columbus arrived. This would represent a nation about the size of Qatar spread out over the entire United States.
These populations were driven west and south, but they were nowhere near the present population of the United States.
By contrast, over half a million men died in the American Civil War... far more than any native loss in a comparative period. In the American War on Iraq, roughly one million were killed in four years.
>>63770860
>estimates
Source or you're spewing bullshit
>>63768996
The tragedy is that slavery ended.
>>63769357
He's got to be on the spectrum
>>63770677
And who's to say people watching his films didn't realize that they were just movies and not to be taken as literal truth? You can't say because you don't know and there's no evidence to back your claim.
Again, it's all thought crime.
>>63769983
All of this is exaggerated and altered by time.
Plenty of Indians got along fine with pioneers. Vice versa.
Some tribes were blood thirsty savages. Some just wanted to make a business trading horses.
Hilariously some of them just wanted to make a business trading black slaves. But they generally don't talk about that now.
Like all history, it gets simplified into black and white terms.
Even psychos like the Commanche had their supporters and detractors on either side of the border.
>He reinforced a stereotype that made it was used to dispossess millions.
The displacement and demographic domination of the natives had occurred quite a time before Ford entered pop culture.
>>63770948
Movies are propaganda, vectors for ideas. Someone could go into a movie with no desire with how it will affect their views, but they will probably leave having been influenced or manipulated in some way. Ford made many very popular movies, many very popular westerns. It isn't a stretch to say that his movies resonated with a public, thereby shaping their views of native americans.
>>63770392
>Should white people leave Europe, their home for millenia, because might makes right?
According to mainstream liberal thinking right now, yes.
There were no doubt Indians who felt bad for whitey and said "man, we need to look out for these poor motherfuckers and help them" while other racist paranoid Indians were saying "Fuck these white guys. I don't like or trust them. They're going to screw us."
Maybe shitskins should have done a better job of not getting BTFO. Its getting tiresome white people being forced to apologies for being superior.
>>63770677
The genocide was already done though. So who cares.
>help disseminate the idea of Native Americans as a subordinate race
It didn't need help. Reality reflected the idea.
Sucks for them, but it is what it is.
>>63770392
>Those myths were racist
And? You think racism is bad?
>Should white people leave Europe, their home for millenia, because might makes right?
No, they should leave it because white people be racist.
>>63771207
>You think racism is bad
Yes
>>63770140
>Or cutting out a woman's pubic bone and wearing it as a crown.
lolwut? Source?
>>63771062
You don't know what the fuck you're talking about, sure some Indians traded with early colonists, but by the time the US constitution was ratified along with the land ordinance of 1785 and NW ordinance before it, it was defacto US policy to forcibly remove Indians. This became even more true once Jackson became president and the Indian Removal Act came into play.
>>63770392
>Native Americans were humans who did some terrible things
They were still in the stone age, and had a horribly brutal stone age culture. I doubt the Indians saved from tubercolosis by paleface medicine would have preferred to die.
>but they were forced off land that they had lived on for years
Culture changes, look at what's happening to Europe right now. Isn't the progressive contention that we should all mix together into a pluralistic society? Or does that only apply to white people?
>>63768996
ITS A BLACK MAN THING
>>63771278
>it was defacto US policy to forcibly remove Indians
Because by that time Indian raiders (many of whom were paid by the british) had stepped up attacks on settlers.
>>63771101
>Movies are propaganda
So you say.
>Someone could go into a movie with no desire with how it will affect their views, but they will probably leave having been influenced or manipulated in some way.
Then again, some others may not. Again, how do you know?
>Ford made many very popular movies, many very popular westerns. It isn't a stretch to say that his movies resonated with a public, thereby shaping their views of native americans.
Easier to believe that these movies were a reflection of what people thought or what the genre of the western had already established. Ford's films are not incitements for racial violence. They're just mythical films which seem insensitive to modern viewers. Because modern viewers are overly sensitives pussies.
Again, you have no real evidence, just assertions.
>>63768996
Tarantino is a fucking retard when it comes to anything remotely human
he's a fucking disgusting mix of PC shit and autism
>>63771256
Do you think flooding a nation with immigrants, thereby irreparably changing the culture and stoking violence is racist?
>>63771268
Go read up on what -- to use one lone example -- happened to CeeCee Parker and her family.
It's taken more than a century of peace to forget why Americans called the natives 'savages.'
Tarantino also said that Psycho 2 was better than the original Psycho, and even Gus Van Sant's remake of Psycho is better than Hitchcock's.
>Last night had Quentin reminding the audience what he thought of Hitchcock. He started off by saying that he thought Psycho II was the best performance of Perkins’ career. “I like Psycho II better than Psycho” he continued, and went on to say that in fact he liked every remake of Psycho, including the Gus Van Sant version, better than the original Psycho, that he didn’t like the original Psycho that much at all, or any of Hitchcock’s work, for that matter. In fact, he said he liked all Hitchcock-esque films — except those by Truffaut — better than Hitchcock. Touché.
>>63770890
Keep in mind, 8 to 10 million was the estimated population for *all of the Americas* until somewhat recently.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_history_of_indigenous_peoples_of_the_Americas
Even an advanced nation like England had a population of 4 million in 1600. We might consider that to be the size of a major city today.
You have to think pre-industrially. If you have seven children and can only afford to feed one or two, what are you eating that winter? The other five kids. Even if the Native Americans were as sophisticated as Qatari Arabs, or the English, they wouldn't have had the resources to ship food across great stretches of land.
I still enjoy Tarantino's films but I pay as much attention to him when he talks as I would Spike Lee.
>>63768996
1. Many of John Ford's films sympathise with the suffering that the Native Americans endured
2. John Ford was Irish, they are Celtic.
3. What about the faceless white men that Tarantino kills like zombies in his films?
>>63772472
>3. What about the faceless white men that Tarantino kills like zombies in his films?
None of them are killed specifically because they're white or have their deaths justified by their race. That being said old westerns shouldn't be PC because old movie - old sensibilities.
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>>63772472
What's going on here?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHb8tBh_VnU
>>63768996
He has a point though
The eternal Anglo needs to be stopped
>It really is people like that that kept alive this idea of Anglo-Saxon humanity compared to everybody else's humanity
What the fuck
John Ford's real name was Seán Ó Fiarda. He was a native Gaeilge speaker from the west of Ireland.
In what reality does he have anything to do with Anglo-Saxons?
>>63772661
But John Ford was Irish. And he was really fucking Irish. As in Irish was his first language and he was a devout Catholic, Irish.
Even Spielberg was making shit like Temple of Doom only a few decades ago. You can't blame filmmakers of the past for not knowing what sensitive cucks white americans would become in the future.
>>63772771
and he secretly funded the IRA
>>63769495
ew no both plebs
>>63772661
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>>63772771
is quentin a crypto-Anglo sleeper agent, defiling the glorious celtic nations in the public sphere?
>>63772472
>1. Many of John Ford's films sympathise with the suffering that the Native Americans endured
If you think this you literally haven't seen the films
While they were "progressive" for their time even movies like The Searchers are ambivalent at best, never is the indian shown as a sympathetic character or worthy of screentime in the same way as the white. apart from the one boy who is racially validated by being half white and half indian...
>>63772942
Quentin's half-Irish so he's just an idiot.
Obama's his favourite president of all time for Christ's sake.
Indians lost the war, plain and simple.
