Are superheroes just a fundamentally flawed concept? Is good capeshit literally impossible because the inherent idea of superheroes is just awful and retarded and represents childish moralfaggotry where justice and altruism are portrayed as actual character motives?
You summarized why gritty, edgy, realistic, serious adaptations can't be good.
Only adaptations as campy as the source material can work. (See Gotham.)
>>63408135
Correct/10.
They're childrens comics for fuck sake
>>63408184
Only the source material is try hard edgy libtard propaganda.
>moralfaggotry
Spotted the 12-year-old.
>>63408367
Spotted the Redditor.
>>63408135
Marvel is very kiddie and leftist.
DC is more mature rational too bad their movies sucks
BOYS MMMMM..
>>63408218
this
>>63408489
They're both leftist trash
Batman is literally beating up cops to save Travyon
>>63408135
At the end of the day, it doesn't matter. When you stretch out a single idea for over 50 years of stories and comics, it will lose steam and devolve into shit.
>>63408135
It's not that superheroes are unbelievably altruistic, it's that they try so hard to make you root for people who routinely get into fights as a lifestyle. In real life, we call them thugs.
Superheroes have superpowers so that they can be more powerful than a cop with a gun and sufficiently robust that they never/rarely face realistic consequences for the violence. If they get injured, they're either going to be fine ten minutes later, or retire in Europe with Anne Hathaway. They're too strong and too important to be arrested or bossed around.
And they face larger-than-life struggles with Very Evil villains that can be defeated with the right punch at the climax of the story. The closest thing to complex problems they face is angst over being too good for this ungrateful world, struggle against a society that's so unplausibily corrupt and incompetent that a single douchebag in a suit is more effective at solving its problems, and the occasional existential self-doubt that's always interrupted by the timely introduction of super nazis or alien invaders. And when they try to actually be more serious, you end up with stupid shit like the Civil War comic arc.
They magnify the contradictions of action-oriented stories by putting over-the-top fantasy characters in our world, for absurd results. So yeah, they can only work as either subversions of the genre, with the conclusion that the entire concept of superheroes is stupid, or as straightforward cartoons where you're not supposed to question too hard if it really matters that McSuper defeated Villain of the Week #1638.
I find it hilarious the only place people dislike superhero movies is 4chan. It's the culture of the board. I've been around since 2005 and seen every board embrace the most retarded and ridiculous bullshit time and time again, but then attempt to call other things the actual retarded and ridiculous bullshit, as if they weren't in the minority of opinions.
We get it, you don't like popular shit. Good for you.
>>63408135
Superheroes make no fucking sense in the real world. There's a reason only Americans write about superheroes. Because America is fucking retarded.
>>63408616
>>63408565
It's FANTASY. It's not supposed to fit into your idea of reality, dipshits.
>>63408616
Never heard of tokusatsu have you
>>63408650
That's why we're saying it can't be good.
Superheroe comics are the modern day Epic literature, really.
In a globalized world, with frontiers deemed obsolete and morals and values irrelevant, they respond to the need of figures that give mass culture societies something to identify themselves with and to feel a certain kind of "community". Superman and Ironman are our own Aquiles and Odiseus, and we'lll have to deal with it.
>>63408676
You're saying nothing fantasy can be good?
Seriously?
lol
Children tend to enjoy moral centric protagonists. It appeals to the moral policeman freshly instilled in their young brain. Older audiences tend to enjoy characters who are reflective of real people, characters who are morally ambiguous or at the very least are logically fleshed out.
Adults who cling to black and white heroes are essentially overgrown children. It is likely they own every silly piece of plastic Nintendo has spawned and think the WiiU is an innovation.
>>63408541
Miller's Batman is ANARCHO Fascist.
>>63408768
>There are no people that actually try to do the right thing, even making sacrifices in this pursuit
>Everyone is selfish and lazy like me and any other kind of character is just unrealistic
>>63408684
I bet you think rap is modern day poetry too
>>63409252
Do they not fit the definition? Not that this gives them any greater worth.
>>63409283
it definitely doesn't. their lack of quality also speaks volumes about our society and our complete lack of standards and any kind of philosophical depth.
>>63409483
And what about rap does not fit the definition?
Just an interesting point, as I've seen 'underground' artists, perform pieces alternately as rap and in the style of slam poetry.
>>63408135
Yeah
I think the genre has great potential for villanporn, and even that is high-school edge lord tier. But until then it's all heroes for kiddies.buzzwords
>>63409573
This kind of viewpoint suggests there have been no morally upright people in history. Is that really what you believe?
Keep in mind superhero universe don't even posit that anywhere close to a majority would use powers for good, for every superhero there are 50 or more supervillains.
>>63408135
most comics suck as literature because they are almost always built around 'hooking' you in for the next issue and condensing a story into a run of 20-page mini-stories. What's more, companies that produce these are liable to cancel your story half-way through so you also have to prepare to end it suddenly at any time. A few writers can create a single story of worth in only 20 pages, but this is bad for sales, so obviously doing so is not encouraged.
comics sell to children, so anything that isn't written for children is generally written to make people feel more mature and smart for reading them. Ham-fisted Progressive or Anarchist political statements, speculative fiction that takes a back seat to cool robot art, superheroes who 'defy conventions', etc. The comics in mainstream that are not simply media devices are held as masterpieces, although the writing behind them is often nothing new in terms of literature and is simply the first time the idea has been brought to that audience.
In terms of the newspaper comics, web-based comics, etc. the same follows. The act of releasing single pages at a time requires something significant or funny on every page, which can severely limit the story-telling potential. Succinct, thoughtful dialogue is what separates the good literature here from the standard gag-a-day strip or plodding drama. Strips like Calvin and Hobbes, Doonsbury, etc. are often cited as the best of these. It's difficult to rate something like this on its literature because there may be 1200 strips, with 1180 duds and maybe 20 really flawless strips. Would that be considered a good comic, or simply a bad comic that created something meaningful?
>>63409669
Now this is a far more accurate criticism than attacking moral optimism.
I agree with a lot of your points, but what about the fact that a lot of classic literature was originally serialized in magazines?
There was also a time where virtually all comics were self-contained, at the very least in the sense that the plot introduced in one issue would be wrapped by the end of that issue, and even ranging to comics that were purely short stories. Do you suggest that such comics would likely have literary merit?
>>63408135
>Are superheroes just a fundamentally flawed concept?
I thought Watchmen answered that question in the 80s
Just enjoy capeshit for the escapism.
>>63408135
nolan batman and mos did it right to be honest
>>63409790
>There was also a time where virtually all comics were self-contained, at the very least in the sense that the plot introduced in one issue would be wrapped by the end of that issue, and even ranging to comics that were purely short stories. Do you suggest that such comics would likely have literary merit?
To be honest, they could potentially be better than the average dimestore novel, but I have yet to see any comic on par with something like Moby Dick or Crime and Punishment or even modern memes like Infinite Jest or Gravity's Rainbow.
Besides, the modern comics industry is pretty far removed from those roots. All it is today is a business built around the same model as Saturday morning cartoons with cliffhangers.
>>63409104
>>63409636
There is no such thing as morality
>>63410075
Indeed friend, I was just saying as much down at my Satanist protest meeting.
>>63409940
>someone who doesn't read comics hasn't read a good comic
Shocker!
>>63410135
Hi /co/
>>63410169
"Good" comics aren't capeshit.
>>63410177
>implying /co/ aren't the MLP-watching fedora-tipping kind of people that think there is no morality.
>>63410278
They aren't. They literally base their morals off of Barman and Superman and demonize anyone who doesn't.
>>63410340
>Fucking Doom is so awesome dude, le Doomface XDDDD, who cares that he's a genocidal tyrant, he's so cool
>Le Cyclops is right because he's edgy now
Yeah, real black and white morals.
>>63410135
Can you prove him wrong?
>>63410169
>I read comics
>they are a serious literary medium!
'superheroes' have not been good since the pulp era
>>63408135
I kinda agree with you.
There are movies that are so good in its cast, music, photography, scenes and many others...so good that I only wish they are not cape shit
If everything is good except being a cape shit then the problem must be with the cape
