Having just watched Manhunter and The Silence of the Lambs back-to-back it's kind of insane how much better Manhunter actually is. Consider:
- The cinematography in Manhunter is gorgeous. Every shot is well-considered and visually interesting, right down to the use of vivid color. Contrast with SotL's flat and dull washed out brownish look.
- The characters are overall stronger and more well-realized, especially when comparing each movie's respective serial killer. Dolarhyde is almost tragic in how he's capable of genuine love but crippled by his insanity in its expression. Buffalo Bill is... a campy drag queen with a comedy poodle. Funny, but not disturbing.
- Anthony Hopkins' version of Lecter is definitely entertaining, but he's not in any way scary or intimidating. Hopkins overacts like a cartoon supervillain and the ridiculous manner in which he escapes is more comical than impressive. Just how did he manage to perfectly remove a man's face with no surgical tools at his disposal? By contrast Brian Cox' interpretation is more understated and (obviously) less important to the plot, but he feels like a realistic depiction of an intelligent and resourceful psychopathic killer.
- Mann's choice to score his film with a contemporary soundtrack might date it, but the songs are all excellently composed and chosen and perfectly fit the mood of each scene. SotL's orchestral soundtrack might be more timeless, but it's also very generic.
In short, Manhunter/Michael Mann appreciation thread?
I agree
it felt less hollywood and actually looking at a disturbed person
Manhunter is so much fucking better.
Also, don't forget Petersen. A lot of people focus on Noonan/Cox and think Petersen is wooden, but there's a lot of intelligence in that performance.
Better than Red Dragon: yes
Better than SOTL: lol no
Also, despite Hannibal's more personal obsession with Clarice, comparatively it feels like Will Graham is put through the wringer more than her, like his psyche is already more fragile and the events of the movie take much more of an emotional toll on him. Clarice accidentally stumbles upon the killer which leads her into physical danger but she doesn't seem at all phased by her encounter afterwards, only becoming unsettled when she receives the phonecall from Hannibal.
>>63354034
Hello IMDB
I watched Manhunter, Red Dragon, season 3 of Hannibal, and read the book all in close proximity.
I feel that if you watched the whole show and appreciate all if the relationships, season 3 is the best telling of the story.
>>63354034
Why do you feel SotL is better? I don't think it's a bad film at all but I also don't feel it does anything exceptionally well or interestingly. But I'm lacking a lot of context of the cinematic landscape of that era so for all I know it might have pioneered a lot of the tropes and scenarios that have become commonplace and clichéd nowadays.
>>63354124
I'm still on season 2 of the show but isn't that also due to the show having the basic advantage of just having more time and space to tell the story in, allowing for deeper characterization and more complex storylines? That doesn't mean it's not impressive because they still could have fucked it up but it doesn't seem fair to compare a two hour movie to essentially three seasons of a tv show.
>>63353787
Totally agree.
i've always thought hopkins was a hack, the man can't do subtlety to save his life
>over the top lecter
>stupid synthpop soundtrack
it's okay, red dragon is a better movie but it loses points for being a remake.
>>63353787
Manhunter is just as flat as Silence of the Lambs as far as composition goes. Michael Mann has been shooting television his entire career.
>>63354688
>red dragon is a better movie
No, it's a shitfest that ruins the movie in order to make it more palatable to the imdb-neo memer reddit sensibility audience.
>>63354688
>over the top lecter
How is Cox more over-the-top than Hopkins?
>red dragon is a better movie
mfw
I love Mann but honestly this movie feels dated by its soundtrack. Normally this isn't a big deal for me but it stops me from enjoying this film. Hope the Audioslave doesn't ruin Miami Vice in the future.
>>63354740
by george, guvna. I like to eat blokes, m8
>movie ends with this song https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LbkQCosU2g
>literally made me s my h
>>63354709
I don't think Mann excels at conveying depth, at least not in Manhunter, but compared to SotL the movie looks like Barry fucking Lyndon.
>>63353787
>- The cinematography in Manhunter is gorgeous. Every shot is well-considered and visually interesting, right down to the use of vivid color. Contrast with SotL's flat and dull washed out brownish look.
Manhunter's a beautiful movie for sure, but the broody dark coloring of SotL is also part of its distinct charm which was in turn emulated for years. Manhunter looks like a (well done) 70s/80s cop film, which it largely was.
>Dolarhyde is almost tragic in how he's capable of genuine love but crippled by his insanity in its expression.
I don't think Dolarhyde was so well-realized. You're comparing this to SotL but the more direct comparison would be to Red Dragon, where we follow him throughout the movie, with more insight to his origins, his conflicting feelings and his relationship.
>By contrast Brian Cox' interpretation is more understated and (obviously) less important to the plot, but he feels like a realistic depiction of an intelligent and resourceful psychopathic killer.
I didn't feel like Cox's Lecktor [sic] was much more than a perv. I didn't see a sociopath or an evil genius, just a bit of a letch that was probably locked up for exposing himself. Hopkin's portrayal of Lecter landed him a historic Best Actor win so hard to say he didn't nail it.
>- Mann's choice to score his film with a contemporary soundtrack might date it, but the songs are all excellently composed and chosen and perfectly fit the mood of each scene. SotL's orchestral soundtrack might be more timeless, but it's also very generic.
Agree on both points.
Honestly I think the weakest point about Manhunter was the script and the characterizations. Graham, Freddy Lounds, Lecktor, Dolarhyde - they're all seem like coked up Miami Vice rejects. Dolarhyde appears in the film out of nowhere at the end, seemingly just to introduce us to his GF and create some tension for that climax - but gave us no reason to care about blindfu anyway.
William Petersen is fucking amazing. The only really good adaptations of the books are Manhunter and Silence. Fuck the series and fuck the other movies.
The first two books are really good, it kinda goes downhill after that.
>>63354779
This scene is problematic because you can tell the building isn't a prison but Mann just chose the location because it looks cool.
>>63354760
Are you fucking deaf as well as stupid?
>>63354779
>elevatorsbusted.webm
>>63354869
Yeah it's really triggering
>>63354852
>Hopkin's portrayal of Lecter landed him a historic Best Actor win so hard to say he didn't nail it.
Why would you use an Academy Award as evidence of anything but herdthink?
>>63354852
>Hopkin's portrayal of Lecter landed him a historic Best Actor win so hard to say he didn't nail it.
Dunno man, the quality of Hopkins' performance is debatable (I personally think he's just kinda goofy) but Academy Awards don't really mean much. Al Pacino also got one for his absolutely cringeworthy stint in Scent of a Woman.
>>63354908
>Why would you use an Academy Award as evidence of anything but herdthink?
Because herdthink is largely a product of interactive consensus and not people voting from home. At any rate if you don't value the recognition of his peers then sure, I'll concede it's an appeal to the majority, whom disagree with this notion that Lecktor>Lecter.
>>63354869
Personally I'm a little triggered by how a guy walks into the frame at 0:13 and it cuts away a moment after, it's really jarring.
Thread theme
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBWSocJMChA
>>63354983
For me personally I guess it's more an issue of me disliking Hopkins' performance rather than liking Cox. I guess I wasn't really fair in comparing the two, the character is a fairly passive side character in Manhunter but has a much more central role in SotL. In any case I don't think Cox should have won an award or anything.
>>63354852
>Dolarhyde appears in the film out of nowhere at the end, seemingly just to introduce us to his GF and create some tension for that climax - but gave us no reason to care about blindfu anyway.
The first time we see Dolarhyde is at the halfway point of the movie when he kills Freddy Lounds though.
Manhunter is more attractive but Silence of the Lambs is more frightening to me.
I forget who pointed this out, but all the shots and framings in this movie are really pedestrian/boring.
80s Michael Mann is best Mann
>Thief
>The Keep
>Manhunter
>>63355339
Sick animeme!
>>63355307
Maybe if you love the 80s and its aesthetic more than Mann as a filmmaker, who didn't become great until the late 90s. His films before then are good and it's interesting to track his development and body of work.
Red Dragon was better than Manhunter
>>63355307
He's working at the peak of his career right now in his digital era imo. Especially Blackhat and Miami Vice.
Theyre both excellent imo.
>>63355060
Not this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2uu_lXOYQ0
>>63355359
Does Heat count as late 90's?
>>63355359
His work in the 90s is pretty good too.
>>63355279
Why would it need "pointing out"? Wouldn't you be able to tell on your own if you found a shot boring or not?
>>63355279
i think its pretty good
>>63355307
The 80s were also his decade of greatest influence with his TV shows Miami Vice and it's aesthetic which defined the decade and also Crime Story which was one of the first tv shows to have a continuing story continuing throughout the season(s).
>>63355181
>The first time we see Dolarhyde is at the halfway point of the movie when he kills Freddy Lounds though.
I know, but it's further along than halfway. He torments Freddy briefly, Mann cuts the scene with his tattooing. Next time we see him he's Mr. Artiste at work, who picks up the all-business but clearly DTF Reba and takes her to a tiger date on a pitstop. The next day he wants her out of the house, but it's never clear why. When he sees his boss with her he loses his shit even though the man fixed them up to begin with. It was more farce than tragedy on his side.
I don't think we even needed to see the Lounds scene for how brief it was, and after keeping Dolarhyde a hidden figure up til then.
>>63355436
mid 90s maybe?
>>63355480
Well, this person put a henid I'd had into words. The careful colour co-ordination of mostly neons, pretty much a carry-over from the Miami Vice tv show is probably the most interesting thing about the movie.
>>63355552
>Mann cuts the scene with his tattooing
Forgot pic.
>>63355436
I'd say Heat shows hints of the greatness to come, the final scene at the airport storage containers has a good spatial sense.
>>63355552
I found the Freddy scene an effective introduction of the character even without the tattoos (although I really, really would have liked to have seen what it looked like originally) largely because of Noonan's performance, allowing us to get familiar with his ruthless persona as the Tooth Fairy before revealing his deeper emotional struggles. I don't think it was masterful characterization or anything but the surprise that this weirdo who wears a stocking half over his face is also capable of tender emotions was an effective little narrative trick.
>>63355552
>>63355877
But, I agree that scene where he suddenly doesn't want Reba back in the house is confusing, it seemed like he was hiding something there when clearly he wasn't.
>When he sees his boss with her he loses his shit even though the man fixed them up to begin with.
Love this part though, makes it clear Dolarhyde has some extreme insecurity issues and I love the soundtrack.
does Michael Mann directed any episode of Miami Vice?
>>63354716
Why is Mann so good, senpai? I honestly think he could make a film of any era great. The way he integrates all possible sensations is the difference between a shot that is just nice, or a good director making a shot magnificent, but Mann can make anything romantic. It makes you feel alive and vigorous.
>>63356008
When Dolarhyde tears the upholstery it sounds like the roar of the tiger we saw earlier in the film .
POTTERY
>>63355877
>I don't think it was masterful characterization or anything but the surprise that this weirdo who wears a stocking half over his face is also capable of tender emotions was an effective little narrative trick.
I saw just the opposite, Dolarhyde with Freddy is trying to play a part. He's some dork that's decided he's the angel of death and now he's trying to creep out Stephen Lang/Joe Piscopo before killing him. Then he meets a chick that's into him and he's just an average dude, maybe even a little brazen.
I think we could have dropped that moment with Freddy and just gone into the film company setting without knowing who's who. Or, Mann could have re-ordered events so Freddy's kidnapped and killed sometime after we meet Dolarhyde, to show us the sorta passive guy we haven't really tied in yet is our killer. To me that would have been more of a stunner.
I still recommend seeing Red Dragon, it's not the visual or audio treat Manhunter is but it's a much stronger script for this story.
>>63356099
He didn't feel the need to because as executive producer he already had full control of the show and it's look and sound.
>>63353787
That's just wrong, everything you posted is shit. Silence of the Lambs is a fantastic film on its own right, even ignoring its context. The cinematography alone is something to behold.
I'm thinking you're propping up Manhunter because it's the lesser known adaptation, begging for those wonderful hipster points.
SotL is the best in the franchise. And, no, I won't ever change my mind on that.
Manhunter looks pretty but the acting isn't above Red Dragon.
In fact, I get the nefarious feeling that people on /tv/ are praising Manhunter due to it being underappreciated. Not always the case, but it looks that way more often than not.
Manhunter is cooler, more stylish and visceral. Silence is the better film.
>>63356398
>The cinematography alone is something to behold.
What makes SotL's cinematography so extraordinary?
>>63356521
Not that anon but this piece illustrates one of Demme's strengths.
>There’s a story that when Paul Thomas Anderson was once asked which three directors had influenced him the most, he replied, “Jonathan Demme, Jonathan Demme, and Jonathan Demme.” In his director’s commentary for Boogie Nights, Anderson called Demme his “greatest influence style-wise.” His favorite part of Demme’s style? His close-ups. “I always loved close-ups in movies,” he says on the commentary, “[and] the very first time I saw a close-up that looked exactly like I wanted a close-up to look was in Silence of the Lambs.”
http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2015/04/14/jonathan_demme_close_up_supercut_shows_what_pt_anderson_and_wes_anderson.html
>>63356521
Mainly inventive composition, absolute perfect timing and pretty much an eye for photography. Tak Fujimoto is criminally underrated and should have gotten much more work than what he did. Scenes like the night vision goggles one were absolutely perfectly edited to deliver the tension they demanded.
Add to that a spotless soundtrack. Manhunter might be the better serial killer story, Silence of the Lambs is the better film.
People who think Jackie Browne and Death Proof are Tarantino's best movies.
People who think Bottle Rocket is Wes Anderson's best movie
People who think Barry Lyndon is Kubrick's best movie.
People who think Casino is better than Goodfellas.
People who think The Wire is better than The Sopranos
>>63356432
>And, no, I won't ever change my mind on that.
Whoa.
>>63356772
Epic i like it
>>63356772
>People who think Jackie Brown are Tarantino's best movies.
Correct
>People who think Bottle Rocket is Wes Anderson's best movie
Correct
>People who think Barry Lyndon is Kubrick's best movie.
Incorrect
>People who think Casino is better than Goodfellas.
Correct
>People who think The Wire is better than The Sopranos
Haven't seen
>>63356772
barry lyndon is boring as shit but the wire is better than the sopranos
>>63356772
I don't know, I agree with some of those like bottle rocket and The Wire, disagree with Barry Lindon and Tarantino's movies in general. I think your mental handicap stems from trying to put people's tastes in convenient categories for you to dismiss.
>>63356792
I know, I'm pretty hardcore.
>>63356882
>I think your mental handicap stems from trying to put people's tastes in convenient categories for you to dismiss.
Like the contrarians here who praise the lesser known or heralded movie because it makes them seem like their taste is superior?
>>63356964
>>63356772
You sound like a cool, mentally healthy individual.
>>63357035
Tantamount to calling someone a poopiehead.
>>63356605
>this guy does things that i already had in mind
uh, doesn't sound like much of an influence on you, paul
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EykztUgfp2U
How can anyone watch this and think it's actually good? It's so fucking awful. The editing, the music, the special effects, god it's all so fucking bad.
>>63357303
Mann is a meme here
>>63357336
He has some good movies, Heat and Blackhat, but Manhunter is not one of them.
Manhunter is trash that should stay dead and buried.
>>63357372
I was just trying to explain why people were praising it
>>63357372
>Blackhat
>>63357303
This is what happens when a child raised on IMDB movies tries to view actual cinema. There is more value in a single frame of this movie than in the entire careers of your Tarantino, your Fincher, your Paul Thomas Anderson, your Jeff Nichols, your Steve McQueen combined.
>>63357417
>he didn't like Blackhat
>>63354908
>implying that's not what you do with /tv/'s opinion
You are just part of a different herd, and edgier and contrarian herd.
>>63357467
MH is trash, accept it. Look at that jerky as fuck editing, guy shifts his stance 3 times in the space of a second. Constant repeats of what has already happened and been shown. That retarded sprint through the glass. The villain's sudden inability to aim a gun when 10 seconds before hand he was casually blasting cops' heads.
Manhunter is a joke, lower than Hannable Rising.
I've never liked anything Mann has done
>>63357540
>Caught up on meaningless details to the point that he misses the ecstatic truth of the scene.
The autism rises
>>63357674
>meaningless details
How the film is presented to the viewer is not "meaningless details". It's sloppy, shitty editing, simple as that.
You can try to defend it or whatever all you want, the fact is it's trash. Get over it.
>>63357714
It is better than any film you have ever enjoyed.
>>63357630
Get a load of this edgelord.
Mannhunter is the only Mann i've ever seen.
>>63356772
The Sopranos >
Jackie Brown / Pulp Fiction > Any other Trantino
>>63357838
Well it's a masterpiece so a good starting point. Work your way through his career chronologically. It's an amazing one. Around the time all of his peers totally ran out of steam and descended into hackdom Mann broke into a whole new cinematic frontier. I fully believe that Miami Vice and Blackhat are among the best films ever made.
>>63357714
It is an objectively GOAT film. All of your criticisms are null and void because I am so fucking edgy. You will bow to my contrarian opinions or else I'll redtext a reddit link in my next reply to you. Anyone who disagrees is an imdpleb for not recognizing Manhunter as an infallible piece of kineographie.
>>63357838
Watch everything. Mann's work is consistently good across his whole career, some would even say that he gets better as time goes on.
>>63357916
>it is edgy to like one of the most celebrated films of the 80s
I literally shouted "top meme" at my monitor.
SPH
>>63355374
Nigger fuck off now
>>63357988
Excuse me? Maybe you have me confused with someone else? I think Manhunter is flawless, the best film of all time. Retarded underage kiddies in this thread are embarrassing themselves with their feeble attempts at critiquing this unassailable pearl of artism. Mann is clearly a genius, the greatest innovator since Ophuls or perhaps Murnau. Maybe you should actually watch real cinema instead of dogshit mass produced filth like Kubrick, Fellini, or Tark.
>>63355374
Agreed. People disagree because Brett Ratner making a better movie than Michael Mann using the same source material would destroy their view of the world.
>>63357838
Go for Thief next, it's insanely good. Perfect soundtrack, too.
>>63358119
If you think Red Dragon is superior then you have the IMDB sensibility and are no true disciple of cinema.
>>63358205
Whatever you say, contrarian-o.
>>63358132
>insanely good
its ok, enormously overrated here
The problem with The Silence of the Lambs is that its been mocked to death on all kinds of shows and movies. It ruins any tension or fear that the film originally had because people just laugh at scenes like the lotion in the basket scene or the goodbye horses scene.
The problem with Anthony Hopkin's performance is that it's too theatrical. It feels more like he should be performing in a Broadway play rather than in a film.
The problem with Manhunter is the fact that it's too 80's, which dates it and makes it cheesy. William Petersen is the definitive Will Graham. I have not liked anyone else as much as him.
There are multiple different cuts of the film Manhunter. There's a fanedit with all the scenes on TPB but I don't know if it has seeders. It's pretty well done, but unfortunately it isn't HD. It was done before the bluray was out.
http://manhunter1986.com/miss00.html
I wonder how this play turned out. Too bad they didn't record it.
>In 1996, Chicago's Defiant Theatre produced a full stage version of the novel at the Firehouse theatre, adapted and directed by the company's artistic director, Christopher Johnson. The production included projected home movies as were described in the novel, including reenacting the violent murders. Dolarhyde's inner dragon was personified by an actor in an elaborate, grotesque costume and seduces the killer to continue on his violent path.
>>63358285
>its ok
You are Christopher Nolan. You are Breaking Bad. You are video games. You are IMDB. You are Paul Thomas Anderson. You are Quentin Tarantino. You are memes. You are Reddit.
Learn to watch cinema and only then might you be qualified to judge Thief.
>>63358205
>>63358119
>>63355374
Brett Ratner's version is bad because it completely shoehorns more of Anthony Hopkin's Lector into the film needlessly just to sell tickets, and it completely undermines Will Graham's internal conflict. Plus, it doesn't really establish him as an extremely talented investigator. What reason do they have in the movie to specifically have him come back? They could have brought anyone in. Why was he important?
>>63358285
>>>/imdb/
You have no taste, class, or artistic sensibilities. Mann is the pinnacle of pre-modern cinema, standing alone as the only giant that history will remember from this past dark age of film. Calling Thief overrated anywhere is tantamount to saying Mount Everest isn't that tall -- an illogical tautology. I hope you at least have the decency to watch more before you keep ejecting this waste from your mouth.
>>63353787
>Manhunter
One thing people seem to overlook is the cheesy shitty actor in the film.
So, as much as I like Manhunters Hannibal well more (Brian Cox) even I won't lie to myself about the insufferable fag blondie.
>>63358342
You are projecting. It's a passable, stylish genre picture. Looks great, some decent sequences, otherwise not much more.
>>63358469
>>63358472
>shit talking William Petersen
He's the best part of the movie you pleb.
>>63358491
>picture
It's a film dick
>>63358472
Petersen gave a masterful performance. Go to fucking acting school and stop basing your memes of performance quality on your IMDB flicks.
>>63358422
>it completely undermines Will Graham's internal conflict. Plus, it doesn't really establish him as an extremely talented investigator. What reason do they have in the movie to specifically have him come back? They could have brought anyone in. Why was he important?
This is true of both movies. In Red Dragon Graham just detectives a few answer and the final answer just occurs to him as he's looking right at it. In Manhunter Graham angers his way into answers - which a beat cop in the very beginning of the film basically hands to him and he doesn't catch til the end.
>>63358550
>film
It's a flick, prick
>>63358472
William Peterson's performance in Manhunter is subtle, erudite, and ironic, but above all elusive -- a quality that he himself has acknowledged about it in retrospective interviews. Dismissing him as a "cheesy shitty actor" is a blow to your credibility, but more importantly for you, your cinematic soul. I hope for your sake that your mind can be remolded over time to appreciate this masterclass of a performance and not be doomed to mass-produced hell that non-Mann films are stuck in
>>63358548
He really isn't, couldn't stand him.
>>63358595
All of the answers to the questions raised in Manhunter can be found embedded within the very tapestry of the film. The cinematography, the sound editing, the set design. All elements missed by Ratner who just transplanted the plot but left behind the meaning.
>>63358612
>>63358285
thief is his best imo. just a solid, stylish, crime movie.
>>63358583
Wtf are you talking about you Thespian wannabe fag?
>>63358491
"not much" -- A description much more apt of your cinematic acumen than of Thief, if your only thoughts on it are characterizing it as a "stylish genre picture". Thief's lush visuascapes should be enough for any kino-lover to be enchanted by Mann's brilliance, but its nuanced, multifaceted narrative and characters should win over even the mushiest of plebeian minds. If you can't see this, then you are all but hopeless. I recommend patience, humility, but above all, more Mann.
>>63358642
Have you seen the show Hannibal or read the book? Because I think your problem might just be with the way Will Graham is suppose to be.
>>63358718
>Have you seen the show Hannibal
Do not mention that tumblr meme nonsense here.
I fucking love Thief, Manhunter, and Last of the Mohicans not because they're incredible pieces of masterful cinema but because he was making technically ambitious and fascinating, guilt free and earnest genre pictures at a time when the mainstream was trying as hard as they could to avoid being associated with the 80s.
>>63358769
>I fucking love Thief, Manhunter, and Last of the Mohicans not because they're incredible pieces of masterful cinema
Post discarded. Plebeian nonsense was sure to follow.
>>63358795
>troll garbage
>>63358745
Whether you like it or not, my question still stands. Will Graham is not exactly meant to be a strong character.
And the sad truth is that show is closer to the books than any of the movies.
>>63358828
Petersen is the definitive depiction of the character. The way he is shown in the show is just 3 seasons of reddit meme time.
>>63358612
My credibility doesn't concern me, he is the part of the film that stops it being the masterpiece everyone has always said it is.
For me, I am allowed to think that, watching a film is a personal experience it shouldn't be a shared opinion just to seem savvy.
I get that he was trying to be subtle and enigmatic all he achieved for me was a typical 80's actor that was touted to a leading man but never had the charisma required.
>>63358647
>All elements missed by Ratner who just transplanted the plot but left behind the meaning.
Both Mann and Ratner were working to adapt source material. Mann had better cinematography, sound track, and set design. Ratner had a better script, a better Dolarhyde, Reba, Lounds and Crawford. Hopkins is a better Hannibal but was overused RD, Cox is a poor one that wasn't elaborated on enough for his cinematic debut. Neither had a very good Will Graham or Molly Graham.
>>63358852
>Petersen is the definitive depiction of the character.
I'm one who originally said he is the definitive version of the character. But the thing is that he isn't completely like the character. Reddit meme asides, the person who plays him on Hannibal is closer.
>>63358718
I've seen the show yes. Will Graham annoyed me in that as well, you may be right there.
>>63358884
All of this is well and good, but not recognizing an immutable jewel in a field that you take interest in means that you are not very knowledgeable in said field
>>63354133
Not him, but you hit the nail on the head with the last part. Looking back at SotL, you only see it in retrospect. For its time, it was a powerhouse movie, and Hopkins' performance was so original and so terrifying to film audiences in the days before Tarantino brought over-the-top violence to the mainstream. Since then, we're all a little jaded. But it stands now as a piece of film history.
>>63358884
It sounds like you have more of a problem with the writing than his actual performance.
Psychopaths are a pet topic of mine.
Man hunter's Lecter has a very accurate portrayal of glibness and superficial charm.
>>63358897
>Cox is a poor one
Stopped reading there. Cox in Manhunter is the all time great cinematic villain performance. I lay awake shaking the entire night the first time I saw the movie. If you're educated about acting the subtleties of that performance just get under your skin and won't let go. Of course the plebs are more impressed by the showy Hopkins Lecter, but that is pantomine bullshit compared to the real human darkness of Cox' Lecktor.
>>63358958
Don't know what field it's in desu, just thought it was a film in the 80's, subsequent viewings, he has been the weak point.
It may come across as I can't stand the film but I must have seen it over 5 times so that's not the case really.
I can overlook things if there is enough there that's quality.
>>63358973
>Man hunter's Lecter has a very accurate portrayal of glibness and superficial charm.
that's because Cox based his performance off real life serial killer Peter Manuel. The problem is that there really isn't anyone alive that's like Hannibal Lector.
>>63358921
Since you seem to have read the books, does Will Graham have, like in the show, that ability to reconstruct the murders perfectly in his head? In the movies he seem pretty limited about that, but in the show, he just has to look at the crime scene for 1 second and he's instantly able to reconstruct a 10 minutes long murder and give personal details about the murderer. Looks like some shit from a tumblr fanfiction because of how overpowered it is. I'm just asking this out of curiosity.
>>63359023
>Cox in Manhunter is the all time great cinematic villain performance.
>If you're educated about acting the subtleties of that performance
>Of course the plebs are more impressed by the showy Hopkins Lecter, but that is pantomine bullshit
Anthony Hopkins was recognized by his peers with the highest award in American film for his Lecter, people who ostensibly are educated about acting. Cox was poorly interweaved in the story and his acting was utterly forgettable. If you're that easily impressed by "human darkness" I'd like to move to wherever you live, Lecktor may have been a good sociopath but not a very imposing one.
>>63359358
>his acting was utterly forgettable
Literally the most harrowing performance ever captured on film for those who have the background to appreciate it.
>>63359089
Not him but no. Will is pretty good at projecting himself into the mind of a serial killer but not to the silly extent of the show. It works in the show because of how over the top everything is, but the novels are a lot more grounded.
>>63359358
Not trying to shoot down Hopkins here, he's good at his opera villain, but Oscar judges are craftsmen at best, often put there for getting consistent, frequent work rather than quality.
>>63359408
The actors' branch of the Academy would seem to disagree.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5V-k-p4wzxg
>>63359455
I'll take the opinion of people who get consistent, frequent work in their field over Anon make unsubstantiated grandiose judgments any day.
>>63359510
I know acting far better than the hacks at the academy who award the meme actors year in year out.
>>63359089
His investigative skills are more like in Manhunter, except not rushed. He doesn't recreate the murders in his head like on the show, but he does think about them just like how a person normally would, only he's more keen with his senses.
I think the main reason why the did the whole murder recreation scenes like they did in the show is because they were afraid people would be bored by normal investigating, plus they kind of wanted to drive into people that Will was THINKING like a killer because they think their audience is too dumb to figure it out on their own.
>>63359600
You got me dawg.
>>63359358
>his peers
>ostensibly are educated about acting
That one anon who wrote the posts about the Manhunter lead probably knows more about acting than at least 50% of the Academy.
>>63357748
By virtue of you being obsessed with the director? That's a poor argument in favor of this shit.
>>63358469
I think you've got "tautology" and "oxymoron" confused there, buddy.
IN A GADDA DA VIDA BABY
>>63358342
And your analogies suck dick. Find a better way to argue in favor of something than using comparisons with things you don't like. You are a fucking mental toddler.
>>63358469
>an illogical tautology
Well, that was redundant.
It's hilarious how the thread started comparing Manhunter to Silence of The Lambs and claiming it was superior (a violently hilarious proposition) then it moved goalposts and then started wrestling it against Red Dragon once the conversation did not go the way they wanted. Michael Mann fanfaggots are the worst kind of human shit.
STRONG AS I AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2uu_lXOYQ0
Manhunter rules.
Imagine how much better the cinematic landscape would be if we just put a bullet through the head of every person who doesn't adore Mann. Capeshit would disappear overnight.
>>63359977
You shut up unless you can point me to a definitive victory point for Silence of the Lambs over Manhunter.
>>63361038
How about the entire fucking film, you pleb mouthbreather. Find a flaw in Jodie Foster's performance.
>>63361094
She's fine. But she is no Petersen.
This is such a cunty thread.
>>63361094
I meant in this thread. You made sound like somebody BTFO Mann-posters but I didn't see that.
>>63353787
>how much better Manhunter actually is
It was so painful to watch I started heckling it in the theater and people laughed.
>>63353787
why did the tooth fairy miss graham with his shot?
he just took out multiple cops you tell me he was so heavily wounded that he would miss someone from close range with a shotgun?
i always believed he missed on purpose, so graham would kill him and become a killer himself.
amazing movie. love the dream like atmosphere
>>63362196
You are a virulent plebeian dancing for others of your base sensibilities
>>63355339
Fuck off, kike. VLC has been fine since 2009 and you know it.
>>63365049
I bet you think Sotl is better than Manhunter. Fuck off filth
>>63353787
Fucking nailed it.
